Calvinism/Doctrines of Grace/Reformed Theology are from the pit of Hell.....they are heresies that make God Almighty a sinner and not just a sinner but the Author of ALL sin.
Every child raped....every women beaten...every person murdered...every deceitful business deal...every cruelty man has done, was authored by God. It is a blasphemous false religion and many otherwise fine Bible teachers are promoting it today. MacArthur, Sproul, Piper, are some of them. Flee and Repent of Calvinism!!
@vicesquad08 Make sure you look up what Paul is quoting from the OT and get context. You are not born a sinner, one must sin to become a sinner no different than one must murder to become a murderer. Jesus said the prodigal son was alive and then died, came to himself and became alive again. Calvinsim destroyed right there. Paul said in Rom 7 he as alive before he came to the law, you say born "dead"... So pauls right. You are imposing an unbiblical definition of "elect" on scripture also.
@tdrpowerl We are born sinners, and there is no way we can choose God without him first giving us the faith to believe. So I'm not sure about this preacher, because he believes in single predestination which means God chose the elect to be saved, but did not choose the un-saved to be condemn, Ultimately, God chose those to be saved and those to be condemn, we have no choice in that decision already ordained by God.
@travistheboo In Calvinism that's not possible... Go look up the false unbiblical definition that they give of "dead". For you to reach out in Calvinist doctrine is works, and you'd have reason to boast in salvation. Good thing Calvinists have no idea what they're talking about, Tony is right.
My only argument to Tony55 would be that the alternative is God only saving the daughter that reached out her hand to be saved. For Him to send us all to Hell would be just, because that is what we deserve. So, for Him to save any is grace.
In Calvinism, God Purposely Decreeds for Man to come into Existance DEAD, INVOLUNTARILY created to love SIN from the moment of conception, having NO ABILITY to repent or beg for mercy, the vast majority FATED for DAMNATION, PREDESTINED to burn forever, CHOSEN for Eternal Punishment, "Before having done anything either good or bad" for "His good pleasure" to "Glorify Himself".
"You have CHOSEN WRATH!" MEANINGLESS!!! A person is FATED for hell "Before having done anything either good or bad"
@Isaiah1v18 Well here you go again. It's not clear. Do you not understand the orthodox teaching of Calvinism or are you just intentionally misrepresenting it? Which is it?
Say a father had two daughters and they both run into the street, he saves one, and the other he don't want to save, is he a just father, No he is not. One of the attributes of God is that he is just . Your view of election makes God unjust.
I've always thought about it like this... we should be willing to accept both extremes and concede that God is God and whatever his justice looks like it's perfect.
To anyone who is saying that the Bible proclaims free will, how do you interpret Exodus chapters 4-14, and Romans chapter 9? Please note that I'm not accusing you of anything, so I would appreciate not getting attacked for holding a different position than you.
no child ever chooses hell they are born going there because Adam sinned and Jesus chooses to deliver every and any one who calls upon His name and asks for forgiveness and once that happens and we get born again then are no longer under condemnation we have to get Spirit filled recieve the baptism by fire and then go on to walk in the Spirit
So to finish his story, Pastor Driscoll then tied his son to train tracks. Because if God chooses some, and purposefully hardens the hearts of others, those others He's intentionally damning for all eternity.
@jbmanish Luke 6:47 "Everyone who COMES to Me and HEARS My words and ACTS on them, I will show you whom he is like: ...then Calvinist, doing the work of Satan come along and pervert the Word of God and say...
He is like Lazarus, a DEAD man, dead people don't seek God, God has to EFFICACIOUSLLY CALL him, one of His ELECT chosen from eternity past, then Regenerate him so that he then may BELIEVE & Be saved.
@apollos6640 The Lord came to me while I was in sin one night and told me to stop sinning and to follow him or I would be hardened. So yes, Luke 6:47 is true, I had to make the choice. And like you, I don't belive God pre-destines people for hell. For God is fair. I believe he gives us a free choice whether to heed his words and to believe. Cause Pharaoh was not always hardened right? This is just an experience that that i had, which in no means accounts to how God/Jesus always works.
@Disciple1818 You can believe anything you want but I'll stick to what the bible says. And the bible clearly says that he predestined, he chose, he has an elect and there is nothing we can do to change that. And if you want God to be fair then we should all go to hell.
"Everyone who COMES to Me and HEARS My words and ACTS on them, I will show you whom he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
Driscolls wrong from the start-- according to Reform Theology, God Decreeds/Ordaineds/Predestined the vast Majority for DAMNATION "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either good or bad". That's right, BEFORE "Chosing to be an object of WRATH" as Driscoll states ... a mans ETERNAL DESTINY is FATED by God OUTSIDE ANY human decision, will, or exertion, so God may "glorify himself" for "His good pleasure according to Calvinism.
@apollos6640 This is nonsense. Calvinism is not biblical. When I examined calvinism I saw that it contradicted way too many scriptures and the context of the Bible dos not line up with calvinism. For instance calvinist say that Jesus Christ died for the church. This is true but in 2 Peter 2:1 we see that He also bought false teachers with His blood on the cross but they bring upon themselves destruction. continued....
@apollos6640 Furthermore in 1 John 2:2 we see that Jesus Christ died not only for us (Christians) but also for the sins of the whole world. John 6:44 says God must draw men but the next verse John 6:45 says those that learn of the Father will be drawn to Christ. John 1:9 Jesus enlightens the heart of every man in the world Acts 17:30 God commands all men to repent. The biggest thing I don't understand is why does God and Jesus Christ get upset and sad when sinners reject the truth continued..
@apollos6640 and perish? Romans 10:21 God has held out His hand to disobedient Israel. Matthew 23:37 Jesus Christ wept over Jerusalem because they disobeyed the truth. He would have gathered with them but they would not. Jeremiah 6:16 God tells these disobedient sinners to walk the good path and find rest for their souls but they said no we will not walk therein. Ezekiel 33:11 God does not enjoy the death of the wicked but wants to see them live. continued....
@apollos6640 God is sovereign and even though He wants none to perish 2 Peter 3:9 sinners will go to hell because of God's judgements. There are many more verses like these. Furthermore calvinist do not believe that God changes His mind. Jeremiah 18:10 If they do evil in My sight I will repent of the good I have intended for them. Many other scriptures show that God will sometimes change His mind. Calvinism contradicts the Bible. It does not make sense. The CONTEXT of Bible refutes it.
@LLThenu in love..it's commanded through the great commission, and also God chose the method that people would come to know Christ, that's through preaching the Gospel that has the power to save. I'm thinking of Romans 10:14 14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?[a] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? If we love Christ and love our neighbor, we would preach the Gospel/evangelize/minister
Hosea 7:13 Woe to them, because they have strayed from me! Destruction to them, because they have rebelled against me! I long to redeem them but they speak lies against me.
@Padrenoe... Gods Will is for ALL to be saved (1 Tim 2:4) not wanting any to perish (2 Pet.3:9) having to delight in the Death of the wicked (Ez.18:23-32), He's a Ransom for all (1 Tim. 2:6), he's the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 Jn.2:2), He's the Savior of ALL people, Especially of those who believe (1 Tim.4:10), but to those who yet Reject His WILL (Lk.7:30) or RESIST His Holy Spirit (Act 7:51), God will relent of the good that He had intended for them (Jer.18:10).
Personally I'm not decided on the debate. People can make arguments from both sides, and until the Lord Himself gives me the answer, I will continue studying but refraining from choosing a side.
Rather than fighting amongst ourselves about the method in which God saved us, we should be fighting the Devil and tearing down his strongholds in this world, so God can save even more people.
@1Atomtan Can you please show me how Mark Driscoll is heretical? I am a devout Christian who fears God and hates what is evil, so if Mark Driscoll really is a heretical false teacher, I would like to know.
As it stands, I hardly ever watch the man anyway. Most of my time is spent watching Piper, Washer, and Ravenhill. Still though, I would like to know.
@tripletrules There are many reasons. The mildest is a good place to start. " abstain from all " appearance " of evil. Driscoll embraces all the trappings of filthy modern culture without himself changing and without pushing others to changed..wrapped tightly in a fundamentalist Calvinist slant. That is the mild stuff. The Calvinism should be enough. He uses the word clitoris from the pulpit describing sexual acts between men and women and masturbation which just crude. I'm no prude either.
This guy is a calvinistic blasphemer who uses sophistry and lies to get around the fact that the god of calvinism is an arbitrary, capricious, despotic, satanic , monstrosity. Like someone said haha, in driscoll's analogy, it seems to me that it would fit better if, he had ten children stepping in front of the truck, and he chooses to only save three, EVEN THOUGH HE HAS THE ABILITY TO SAVE ALL TEN. Note- I am NOT an aminian- " lose your salvation" is blashemy too!
Why would he LIMIT God by saying He chose to save only some?
John 3:16 states God loves the whole world - everyone! That's why God had Jesus die for us all, not just some. He is really limiting God's love and power.
@MrHighkicks First off, NO ONE can limit God by their opinion or understanding. That being said, you cannot take one verse of the Bible and disregard many other verses that obviously support a different understanding of election and predestination (Romans 9, Ephesian 1-2).
@MrHighkicks I don't believe he's attempting to limit God's power. We can't limit God, but I understand what you're saying.
you might look up limited atonement. there are a few viewpoints, but one mentions that God's power and ability is not limited, he has only limited the atonement in its scope.. check it out, it's good to study up on the doctrine.
Who cares about predestination? God desires all to be saved. And if you love God then you try your best to help. Not tell people that there presdestined to hell. What is wrong with you people? Predestination is arguement that is no one can win.OnlyGODknows
Isaiah 55:8-9“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
@foreverinchrist1 God wills for all men to be saved, but no, not everyone will be. Why? Because as 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." Everyone has the chance to believe, not all will.
haha, driscoll really got into this, nice! but in driscoll's analogy, it seems to me that it would fit better if, he had another ten children stepping in front of the truck, and he chooses to only save three, even though he had the ability to save all eleven.
@jet375 Yes, scripture is very clear on election. Read Romans 9 again and don't just stick with that chapter but read the rest of the Bible and you will find its not election of calvinism.
Driscoll has the "Augustinian" view of predestination wrong. Augustine taught a double predestination! Calvin was not the first to teach this. Almost 1200 years before Calvin, Augustine was battling it with Pelagius! GET PHILLIP SCHAFF'S BOOK ON CHURCH HISTORY IT'S AUGUSTINE'S ANTI-PELAGIUS WRITTINGS AND RETRACTIONS! IF one is versed in Calvin's Institutes, than, Augustine will enrich & edify you. BUT BEWARE THERE ARE SOME FALSE DOCTRINE THAT AUGUSTINE HELD TO! THE WHOLE CHURCH HELD ALSO!
I admire your zeal. Calvin's moral integrity did appear to be proven uncertain. There must be a clear distinction between God's call to repentance, one's willingness to come, and God's gracious act of regenerating those who come (after God first calls).
This is the Wesleyan stance in a nutshell, and my stance.
@muzicdrifter We are sinners running from God. We don't want him and always choose sin, He hangs you back because he loves you. We will always be running into sin and death with out him grabbing hold to us and loving us first.
Well, I believe the point being made is that we have choosen, we choose Satan and the lie he told. In the beginning when man was in the garden with God, we choose to rebel against his command, by taking the fruit. By choosing to believe Satan instead of God we became Gods enemies.
If we can't choose God we can't choose Satan because that wouldn't be a choice at all. His theology makes no sense. How can we be enemies of God if we didn't choose to be?
God does not create people to go to hell. to say He chose some is to say he did not choose others, that he simply watches indifferently as some run in front of the truck and kill themselves, or even sent them in that direction. That is not love. Love created us for love, when we reject that love we experience justice, even to death. To be loved is not a choice, that happens regardless, we do not choose Him. We do choose to reject Him, we choose sin. We can only submit to His justice and love.
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and DOCTRINES of demons, Romans 16:18 "For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the naive."
my beliefs are a little on the election side but I don't believe we have absolutely have SOME part in receiving the Spirit. That said, I also don't think this point is very important eternally so I'm not too worried what anyone thinks.
This is a legit question, though: How would a Calvinist reconcile the idea of 100% predestination with the fact that God shows no favoritism. Wouldn't God purposely choose some instead of others mean that He favored them?
@prettylola1..."I guess we should be worshipping Driscoll if He's powerful enough to damage Gods character"... Go for it, You can do as you wish-- Driscolls mirepresenting the SOVEREIGN and HOLY HOLY HOLY GOD of the Scriptures by advocating a Man-Centered worldview, Divine Causal Determinism-- following his False shephards Augustine and Calvin and the Reformed philosophical traditions of men.
@m00sheLLe You need to study what "Calvinists" actually believe, because your analogy is not only an inaccurate depiction of our doctrines, but it also puts us on equal footing with God (that is a dangerous place to be).
@CBALLEN... "Solomon was talking about accidents, risks, as opposed to dying of old age"... WRONG. Solomon correlates being excessively wicked with dying BEFORE your time. "Do not be excessively wicked and do not be a fool. Why should you die before your time?" LIKEWISE, Proverbs 10:27 "The fear of the Lord prolongs life,
@greyswans First of all, I'm NOT a Calvinist. Everyone is "predestined", however people have deliberately Sinned and rebelled against Him by their own free will. God now commands ALL men everywhere to Repent (Acts 17:26-31) this includes you, don't be like the Pharisees and Scribes who rejected Gods Will for their lives (Luke 7:30). So be obedient and turn away from your SINS, John 3:34-36. Don't listen to anything Mark Driscoll has to say, he's a fool and a false teacher damaging Gods Character
@spolea4 "God is the only being that can truly say he has freewill"... God can do whatever He pleases-- correct. Likewise, man has been endowed with a limited amount of freedom because of His Grace: we can OBEY (John 3:34), or REJECT Gods purpose for our lives (Luke 7:30). Any further build up of wickedness will lead to a quicker death on Earth. "Do not be excessively wicked and do not be a fool. Why should you die before your time?" Eccl.7:17
@apollos6640 Eccl.7:17 is not talking about dying before God wants you to,God has numbered all our days,Solomon was talking about doing things that could take your life in an accident or from taking risks opposed to dying of old age,from a man's perspective.God has determined the amount of time we will each spend on Earth,He has determined exactly when,where and how death will happen for each of us.
Most people who talk about " well i dont feel god wouldnt cause us to love him" or that " god would rather have us choose him back" ... Your missing the point.. Freewill isnt close to being a reality in scripture.. And therefore it isnt a discussion of, is it biblical? Its a discussion of your feelings of we have rights... God is the only being that can truly say he has freewill .. Because he can do whatever he wants.. There is no higher power than him.. We on the other hand are governed by lim
im thinking of becoming a calvinist, but there is one thing i cant really get over. If God elects and predestines us to be saved, then why does he choose to save so few? maybe im misunderstanding it, but thats the only thing that really is in the way of my acceptance of Calvinistic theology.
@vintagetheology... "I would say that if you reject Reformed Theology then you reject solid Biblical doctrine" ...it doesn't matter to me what you wish to believe in, you are free to accept Augustinians position of Total Inability, adopted from the gnostic manecheaen beliefs of ELECTION. I say that If you ACCEPT this view, then U have been taken captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
@vintagetheolog... please don't impose your habits onto me. I was right, it was pressumptious of you to comes off as a" know-it-all" by telling me to go read Rom.1 as if I were OBLIOUS to the WORD of GOD. Regarless, your testimony of "LOVING the Bible" does NOT add credibility to your Reformed Theology. I ALSO love the Word of God, 100% Holy Spirit Inspired indeed. But by redefining "SOVEREIGNTY" Reformers have also Redefinied the nature and character of GOD as well.
@vintagetheology... its a little bit pressumptious of you to think I've never read Rom.1. "God has consigned ALL to disobedience, so that He MAY have Mercy on ALL" iit doesn't read" All types" so don't ADD to the scriptures. Perhaps you should read Acts 17:26-30 and Preach the Gospel in the same way as Paul did. ASSUMING you've never read Acts 17. I reject REFORMED theology and find it unbiblical.
@apollos6640 Listen, we're brothers in Christ. I don't want an arguement. I never said or assumed that you had never read Romans 1, so don't put words in my mouth. But YOU are assuming that I have never read Acts 17, when actually Acts was the first book of the NT that I read after I became a Christian, & one of my favorite NT books that I have read multiple times. I would say that if you reject Reformed Theology then you reject solid Biblical doctrine. I would NEVER add to scripture by the way.
@apollos6640 ...And also to add to my last post: I love the Bible & believe it is 100% Holy Spirit inspired. I believe Reformed Theology is 100% Biblical & I believe that it makes God look BEAUTIFUL. If you're a Christian it's because God had mercy on you, chose you, died for you, persued you, & regenerated you while you were still a sinner. He ultimately is the reason you persevere as a Christian in this life. Some of my fav scriptures are Romans 8:28-30 & Phillipians 1:6.
Well Mark is being very deceptive, he makes it appear as if you are going to hell for your sins. However, all CALVINISTS believe that people are either created for Heaven or Hell "before having done anything either GOOD or BAD in order that Gods purpose of ELECTION might continue"...They ERR because they don't know the Scriptures, if they knew them they would not go astray.
@apollos6640 I hate the name "Calvinist", but I do believe the 5 points of Calvinism are in fact Biblical. Not ALL Calvinists believe that God creates some for Heaven & creates some for Hell. The Bible only mentions God having mercy on some, & then leaving the rest to their sins, & by staying in sin they choose Hell. Read Romans 1:18-32. Christians are Christians because God chose them first, regenerated their hearts, which then made them willing to choose Him. This is truly saving grace.
@Huesito7 All have by the grace of God been offered salvation. I think the biggest stumbling block to some is whether that salvation is resistable or not. Calvinists and some Lutherans would believe that salvation is resistable...hence predestination. Others believe that we must affirm our salvation....and yet others believe that salvation is irresistable for all and that the purpose of Christ in our lives is to extend the Good News to all.
I don't know why so many believe in election but not unconditional election. If it's that case, why did he make Pharaoh's heart hard, Why did he hate Esau, even before he was born? Why does he make some objects for wrath? So that his purpose in election might stand and for his creation to see his glory. But the !POINT! is that we needed a savoir! We were all condemned, but by the grace and love of God. He came down in the form of Christ, and by him, I am saved!! EVERYONE, Don't forget that!!!
I don't know why some many believe in election but not unconditional election. If it's that case, why did he make Pharaoh's heart hard, Why did he hate Esau, even before he was born? Why does he make some objects for wrath? So that his purpose in election might stand and for his creation to see his glory. But the !POINT! is that we needed a savoir! We were all condemned, but by the grace and love of God. He came down in the form of Christ, and by him, I am saved!! EVERYONE, Don't forget that!!!
@wolfec The disagreement I have with mark and all calvinists is the fact that they say we were elected before the world began, we having no responsibility. Electioin is conditional. We are saved by grace through faith. 2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall." Its clear election is after belief and we are to examine ourselves.
Really, you were born doomed to hell. Did you sin before you were born? Did you make any choice before you were born? These preachings are 100% illogical and utterly deceptive.
Heck, even ongoing "sin" wouldn't be a choice to be tortured forever. When a person choses to ignore the god of the Bible, do you really think they see two choices, what "god" wants them to do on one side, and hell on the other? Few see it that way because we know hell is a myth.
God didnt elect anybody, we need to rightly divide the word of truth, compare spiritual with spiritual. Chirst died for ALL that WHOSOEVER will believe will have everlasting life. Calvinism is a man made system. Its a false damnable gospel.
Let me pose this question. If an infant is born with original sin, and all sin deserves eternal punishment, how does God punish infants who die shortly after birth? They are imbued with sin and so God's "righteous judgement" requires that he punishes them. Why would God willfully create life, curse it with the sin of Adam, decided it's death and then punish it for eternity? To what greater purpose does this serve? Why create a soul with the express purpose of torture? Malevolent Calvinism!
Calvinism is a very heartless theology. I wish "Christians" would actually embrace the teachings of Christ and not Calvin, because the two's teachings are incompatible.
It does say something about God's Sovereignty, but it doesn't say those people who don't come to Christ in this life are eternally rejected and barbequed. Consider 1 Corinthians 15: 22-28.
Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Jos 11:20 For it was the LORD's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted to destruction and should receive no mercy but be destroyed, just as the LORD commanded Moses.
In the context of Jos. 11:20, God does harden Pharoah's heart to use him/them to show his power and they're destruction from a literal battle with Israel is clearly death, not eternally burned.
It's similar in Rom. 9:22, these people are prepared for destruction, used to make known his power. This does show God uses people for his own purpose, but it doesn't say they're rejected and barbequed forever. Doesn't support reprobation...
@westernlions No the elect or God's chosen are the only ones to receive salvation! I do not need to defend the doctrine of election. The truth always defends its self from people like you who deny it.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen."
This follows the context of Romans 9 when Paul states
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
@westernlions The elect are what Jesus says :All that the Father has given Him.
Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
But your false theology will say that the Father gave Jesus every person in the world but that is not the words of Christ when he tells the unbelievers in John 10 that the reason they do not believe is because they are not His Sheep! THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!
It does say God has chosen people, but not excluded others. Don't get me wrong, God is the one who give us faith and draws us to himself(John 6:44). Christ did die for others and not just your "elect.".
1st John 2:2 and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
The world does include more than just yourself and your "elect.
Phil. 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,...
@moejobe very good point. Its bc God doesnt "elect". We become the elect when we get saved. This doctrine of unconditional election hinders Gods grace. Its a doctrine of devils. Ephesians ch1 calvinists such as driscoll tend to miss "According as he hath chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world..." these passages God is addressing the believer, Mark probably doesnt have "in him" in his bible cuz its a modern version. This doctrine takes the focus away from the cross.
And the way Mark illustrated how man is rebellious towards God, and will not repent, again further emphasizes what the Bible has to say about man in (Romans 8:7-8) "because the mind set on the flesh is HOSTILE toward God; for it DOES NOT subject itself to the law of God, for it is NOT EVEN ABLE TO DO SO, and those who are in the flesh CANNOT please God." If it was left up to us(man), we would all choose sin/evil, yet out of God's grace, those whom the Father has given the Son will be raised up.
Amen!! I used to reject calvinism and election for many months & many different reasons, however once I really turned to scriptural doctrine, I find it is in fact biblical. For as Jesus Himself said in (John 6:37) "All that the Father GIVES ME will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out." I find it amazing how people think that they, on their own will can come to Christ, yet scripture teaches (John 6:65) "...that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
okay but could you answer my question ? Could it be God's secret will that all men should be saved or could it be that it is his revealed will that all men be saved ? If God has two wills, why is double-mindedness condemned in the Scriptures? If God has two wills, why does the Bible say, "He is of one mind?" If God has a secret will, how did you gain a knowledge of it? PM me
Our God would die? Christ is God but died only as Man not as God.His Spirit is always One with God. There is no God without perfect unity of the Godhead. The Word never died whom is Christ. Christ always God gave up His sacrificial body only. He in Spirit was never seperate from Father, and Spirit.
@TheKJVberean, you have a heart for the loss... God bless you. Calvin's Institutes of a Christian Religion quotes Augustine more than 400x... that should give you an idea of the true Origins of Calvinism. You'll notice that immediately, a Calvinist will begin to attack you with words, usually in a prideful, condescending fashion, then they'll try to discredit you by associating you with every known heretic that ever lived... how sad. Stray Strong in the Faith.
@rustysruger untrue statement, one does decide to follow Jesus but only after the Father allows it as Jesus says in John Chapter 6. Our choices in service to God are only after God make this possible by giving us a new heart.
I read his institutes and thats as far as one needs to read bc he has the foundation incorrect. He says Jesus descended into hell to be tormented, in other words Jesus died spiritually - which is heresy from the pit of hell. He says that was "a greater and more excellent price" than the cross. Our redemption was paid at the cross, His death the shedding of His blood. Calvin goes beyond that. When one goes beyond the cross they go into every false doctrine and also get the label as a heretic!
How can any one believe in a sky fairy in the 21st century ? its insane. There is no god. If we got rid of all religion the world would be a much happier and safer place.
@assym2006 what do you believe ?? everyone believes something , so called scientific understanding of our world? what is do you think makes the world a better,happier or safer place.Human nature doesnt seem to be doing a great job-we seem to be destroying the whole planet-isnt it time we had some serious direction
in the way we do life? if you can perceive of something i.e the truth it exists so dont stop searching until you have found it!!!
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--
Rom 9:12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
@marineshape works based? explain your reasoning. Do yourself a favor and read the bible for what it is and dont base what you believe off mans theology. Calvin was a heretic. Jesus Christ died that all men might be saved. To say He only died for the elect is heresy, and the fact that he predestines some to life and death is blasphemy. He died for all men that whosoever believeth will have eternal life. you have no argument, you defend 5 heretical points and not the Word of God.
@TheKJVberean You don't know what Calvin taught! Calvin's Institutes is to be read along with his commentaries. Because if you read Calvin in context, you will see the Gospel in the Bible. Calvin saw the truth and embraced it. Darwin 300 years later and came and saw the truth and rejected it. Darwin did not try to adopt a verison of Christianity and FAUGHT TOOTH AND NAIL AGAINST IT!
"He has not allowed you to receive what your sins deserve!"
Yet, He allows others to receive what their sins deserve. Riiiiiiight. That is not justice. That is not just. We all deserve hell, that is just. God has made a way of escape by paying the penalty we earned with His own blood, that is love. God offers salvation as a free gift, that is grace. God offers salvation to all men equally, that is just.
@DiJohnny18 Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
IT SAYS FOR MANY. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT HIS BLOOD IS POURED OUT FOR EVERY PERSON FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN BUT ONLY FOR MANY! THAT "MANY" ARE THE ELECT CHILDREN OF GOD!
@NB3K "For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
Wait, let me guess, that "world" is only the elect, and "whosoever" only refers to those that God will allow to believe? Well, you may be able to muddy that vs up to your liking and justify calvinism, but you can't get any clearer than 1 John 2:2 "he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also... the whole world."
@DiJohnny18 Ok I just watched Luther for the first time. Luther was explaining a correct translation for scripture that Jerome may have mistranslated. In the Greek there is no "whosoever" THIS IS FACT! THIS IS NOT MAN MADE! UNLIKE THE DREAM OF MAN HAVING A FREEWILL. BEFORE CALVIN & LUTHER, THERE WAS THE MORNING STAR OF THE REFORMATION HIS NAME WAS JOHN WYCLIFFE. THIS IS THE FIRST TRANSLATION FROM THE LATIN VULGATE INTO ENGLISH IN THE 1390'S. CONT'
@DiJohnny18 This translation I admit may have it's flaws in the way the english is constructed, but you can clearly see that your infrerance is based upon a mistranslation.
JOHN 3:16 For God louede so the world, that he yaf his `oon bigetun sone, that ech man that bileueth in him perische not, but haue euerlastynge lijf.
You see here Wycliffe translated what you call "whosoever" that each man that believes perishes not , but has life. It is not universal to everyone but only to believers!
@DiJohnny18 Now we have the "Tyndale" New Testament, which is translated from Erassmus Greek-Latin New Testament. ie.[RECEIVED TEXT] and I believe Tyndales English New Testment corrisponds to Luther's New Testament. I know Tyndale prepared his New Testament under the feet of Luther.
JOHN 3:16For God so loveth the worlde yt he hath geven his only sonne that none that beleve in him shuld perisshe: but shuld have everlastinge lyfe [TYNDALE 1525] Calvin was only 16 years old!
@DiJohnny18 If you do not accept the fact that you may be wrong in the interpretation of John 3:16 I do not know what to tell you. Wycliffes and Tyndales are the 1st two english copies of the New Testament. and it follows what jesus say in John 6, and John 10 and john 17 and so forth.
@DiJohnny18 Than also show me proof in the Word of God that the word "WORLD" means everyone that will exsist or has exsisted or exsists now. You can't because the Bible says God hated Esau. Therefore if God hated Esau than he did not "love" everyone person that will ever be because God hated Esau. Esau would have been a Vessel of Wrath "fitted" for destruction. What about the Cannonites did God love them too when He had them devoted to destruction and not to receive anymercy at all!
Calvinism is man made doctrine from the pit of hell. God doesnt predestine some to be saved, that goes against His will. Mark is a false teacher, he needs to repent. Calvinism is one of satans favorite tools infiltrating the church
@MarineShape175 are you afraid to do good works?, Matt5:16 let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your FATHER in heaven. James 1:22 But be doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.(doesnt this mean Love which requires some form of works)James 2:24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. (Martin Luther wanted to tear the letter of James out of the bible as it didnt fit into his doctrine very well)
@mgoeldi2007 I believe in doing good works just fine, however, I believe good works are a result of God's grace, through the gift of salvation. They are not a means TO BE saved.
So then it is not of him that WILLETH, nor of him that RUNNETH, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Paul's explaining in this verse that it's not our will or our works that save us, but God's calling and election. Our will and our works in service to God is an after effect.
@MarineShape175 Yes and Amen to that: may I add-Phil. 2:13 For it is GOD who works in you both to will and to do for HIS good pleasure.But what does it mean, work out your salvation with fear and trembling?There is however a great danger that the interpretation of works is used as an excuse to follow CHRIST once saved.Lets face it if a greater percentage of christians were on fire for CHRIST inspired by the HOLY SPIRIT we would have gained a little more ground from the enemy.
Driscoll needs to study more because Gottschalk the 9th century Augustinian monk did not teach that God was the author of sin, but he was a supralapsarian and believed that man's fallen condition was no condition upon why God hardens, but because God willed to create them for this purpose as Proverbs 16:4 implies.
We've chosen hell? Every single being? We've chosen hell, death, satan?
Is this guy stupid or something?
Because of Adam we all die, because of Christ some live
Yes. That makes perfect sense. Thank you for making clear how stupid Christianity is.
He's story is complete bull crap. He only had to save ONE person. It would make more sense if there were two about to die, and he only chose to save one, when he could of saved two.
Calvinism and other unsound doctrines have to take bible out of context and misrepresent it using allegorical methods of interpretations. Its no wonder we have soo many denominations today, what ever happened to taking the bible for face value? Let God be true and every man a lier. Get the only true Word of God for english (KJV) and study to show YOURSELVES approved unto God. Listen to "thus saith the Lord" and not "thus saith john calvin, my pastor, etc."
Calvinism and other unsound doctrines have to take bible out of context and misrepresent it using allegorical methods of interpretations. Its no wonder we have soo many denominations today, what ever happened to taking the bible for face value? Let God be true and every man a lier. Get the only true Word of God for english (KJV) and study to show YOURSELVES approved unto God. Listen to "thus saith the Lord" and not "thus saith john calvin, my pastor, etc."
Mark is another false teacher just as piper and the rest of the calvinist preachers. Everyone is called to salvation, its our choice to respond to it, believe or not believe. If we choose to believe THEN we become elect and God predestined that those who believed would be conformed to the image of his son, when? at the rapture. calvinism/reformed theology just brings confusion to the believer and eliminates the simplicity of the gospel. these ppl also use corrupt bible. Need to have KJV Bible!
@TheKJVberean well if he KJV bible was the only true bible, how come JESUS CHRIST you become like a child you can in no way enter the kingdom.So theology may not at all get you there but faith.If you check the manuscripts and look at the greek text you soon find things not to be linguistically correct, furthermore
the use of the english language has changed- like shakespearean language.
Hell is not mentioned because there is no hell. It is fiction concocted by people. There is judgment and the lake of fire, but that is a future event. The weary prophet asked God to hide his soul in Sheol that he might find peace. The Greek equivalent is Hades (literally UNPERCEIVED). KJV also translated Tartarus and Gehenna as hell. The KJV was ordered translated so that an illiterate farm boy could understand it. It's NT was never intended to be a deep study Bible. Too many metaphors.
So he said in "love he predestined us, the predestination part is the love part". That's good and all but what about those that has not been predestined for God?
Does that mean that God only loves those he predestined?
His story with his little girl doesn't make sense since he only had one person to save. It would make sense if he had two girls and only saved one.
He said every single being has "chosen" "sin". We were born sinful, how can we choose sin if we are literally born sinful??
"As He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight, in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son." The Body of Christ is a unique form of salvation above the rest. It is by God's choice, beginning with the advent of Paul and ending at the rapture. Unlike the rest of mankind, we will not be resurrected to stand at the Great White thrown judgment. Those who are whose names are found in the Book of life will enter God's Kingdom.
I'm trying to get a better grasp on Calvinism and what Driscoll believes. Could someone help me out? Romans 2:11 says that God does not show favoritism. But by picking some and not others, is He not doing exactly that? It seems to me that we have all turned away, but that He desires a relationship with all of us, not just some of us.
@ourgenerationisdumb Hi there. If you read the verses before and after, I think you will come to understand the context. He is talking about Jews and Gentiles. Under the new covenant, it is both Jew and Gentile who can become free in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:11-18 also brings this fact to life. The Jews were the chosen people in the old covenant, and this made them proud. Paul is telling them that with Christ, both have been "brought near" by His blood! God bless!
@wuebbsco Very good point. That indeed is what Paul is talking about. Like you said, "it is both Jew and Gentile who can become free in Christ Jesus." But it still seems that Paul is making the bigger point that God does not have favorites. Doesn't it seem within God's character that He loves everyone? When Jesus was being nailed to the cross, he didn't say, "Forgive the elect, Father, for they know not what they do." No. He loved even those who were nailing Him down. God bless you.
@ourgenerationisdumb You mention Jesus being nailed to the cross. Don't forget, it was all of our sins that nailed him to the cross. There is no one who is without sin. You should Read Romans 9:9-24....Specifically vss 15-16.
God will have mercy on whom He wills.
Chloe also makes a good point. God is not showing favoritism to any particular people. Jesus came to save both Jews and Gentiles, all of whom were deserving of hell!....something the Jews didn't want to hear!
@wuebbsco You said, "it was all of our sins that nailed him to the cross." Exactly! But you don't seem to believe that. You believe he only died for the elect; therefore, according to you, it was only their sins that nailed him to the cross. I have read and studied Romans 9, and although it seems to argue for your viewpoint, I think it actually argues for the opposite. Look where the "I will have mercy on whom..." verse comes from: Exodus 33:19. God has mercy on Moses because Moses had faith.
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Calvinism/Doctrines of Grace/Reformed Theology are from the pit of Hell.....they are heresies that make God Almighty a sinner and not just a sinner but the Author of ALL sin.
Every child raped....every women beaten...every person murdered...every deceitful business deal...every cruelty man has done, was authored by God. It is a blasphemous false religion and many otherwise fine Bible teachers are promoting it today. MacArthur, Sproul, Piper, are some of them. Flee and Repent of Calvinism!!
willpower242 1 week ago
@vicesquad08 Make sure you look up what Paul is quoting from the OT and get context. You are not born a sinner, one must sin to become a sinner no different than one must murder to become a murderer. Jesus said the prodigal son was alive and then died, came to himself and became alive again. Calvinsim destroyed right there. Paul said in Rom 7 he as alive before he came to the law, you say born "dead"... So pauls right. You are imposing an unbiblical definition of "elect" on scripture also.
droptozro 2 weeks ago
i have a question: if i was born a sinner, wouldn't that suggest that i had no choice in the matter? so if i have no choice, how did i "choose" hell?
tdrpowerl 2 weeks ago
@tdrpowerl We are born sinners, and there is no way we can choose God without him first giving us the faith to believe. So I'm not sure about this preacher, because he believes in single predestination which means God chose the elect to be saved, but did not choose the un-saved to be condemn, Ultimately, God chose those to be saved and those to be condemn, we have no choice in that decision already ordained by God.
vicesquad08 2 weeks ago
@travistheboo In Calvinism that's not possible... Go look up the false unbiblical definition that they give of "dead". For you to reach out in Calvinist doctrine is works, and you'd have reason to boast in salvation. Good thing Calvinists have no idea what they're talking about, Tony is right.
droptozro 3 weeks ago
@droptozro what???
vicesquad08 2 weeks ago
My only argument to Tony55 would be that the alternative is God only saving the daughter that reached out her hand to be saved. For Him to send us all to Hell would be just, because that is what we deserve. So, for Him to save any is grace.
travistheboo 1 month ago
@Channel " Do you not understand the orthodox teaching of Calvinism or are you just intentionally misrepresenting it? Which is it?"
What part of what I've written do you disagree with? Let's discuss it.
Isaiah1v18 1 month ago
In Calvinism, God Purposely Decreeds for Man to come into Existance DEAD, INVOLUNTARILY created to love SIN from the moment of conception, having NO ABILITY to repent or beg for mercy, the vast majority FATED for DAMNATION, PREDESTINED to burn forever, CHOSEN for Eternal Punishment, "Before having done anything either good or bad" for "His good pleasure" to "Glorify Himself".
"You have CHOSEN WRATH!" MEANINGLESS!!! A person is FATED for hell "Before having done anything either good or bad"
Isaiah1v18 1 month ago
@Isaiah1v18 Well here you go again. It's not clear. Do you not understand the orthodox teaching of Calvinism or are you just intentionally misrepresenting it? Which is it?
ChristianityChannel 1 month ago
He's not going to convince anyone by yelling.
MGCAUSTIN4 1 month ago
Say a father had two daughters and they both run into the street, he saves one, and the other he don't want to save, is he a just father, No he is not. One of the attributes of God is that he is just . Your view of election makes God unjust.
Tony55phx 2 months ago
@Tony55phx couldn't agree more
layorugua2000 2 weeks ago
I've always thought about it like this... we should be willing to accept both extremes and concede that God is God and whatever his justice looks like it's perfect.
longhornchad2000 2 months ago
@longhornchad2000 - True
jgallete 1 month ago
To anyone who is saying that the Bible proclaims free will, how do you interpret Exodus chapters 4-14, and Romans chapter 9? Please note that I'm not accusing you of anything, so I would appreciate not getting attacked for holding a different position than you.
xxBananaXIceXCreamxx 2 months ago
The best Satan can do to stifle the amazing truth of this video is to put it in 240p.
xxBananaXIceXCreamxx 2 months ago
@Disciple1818 "The Lord came to me..."
Good job wise & faithful servant...
To those who REJECT his Calling not wanting him as their Lord he will declare to them:
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.'" Lk.19:27
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
What a nutcase. No free agency, God chooses? Well, I'd better just chill then, and see where I fall in the lottery.
carlosenriqueulloa 2 months ago
@CascadaaXx Nope, Mark pushed his daughter into traffic, then turn around and saved her then told her "dont go running into traffic again."
TheKJVberean 3 months ago
@ShueperDan "Tied his son to train tracks" Lol.....very true.
TheKJVberean 3 months ago
no child ever chooses hell they are born going there because Adam sinned and Jesus chooses to deliver every and any one who calls upon His name and asks for forgiveness and once that happens and we get born again then are no longer under condemnation we have to get Spirit filled recieve the baptism by fire and then go on to walk in the Spirit
lucy9359 3 months ago
So to finish his story, Pastor Driscoll then tied his son to train tracks. Because if God chooses some, and purposefully hardens the hearts of others, those others He's intentionally damning for all eternity.
ShueperDan 3 months ago
Can you really blame his daughter for running into traffic?
CascadaaXx 4 months ago
@jbmanish Luke 6:47 "Everyone who COMES to Me and HEARS My words and ACTS on them, I will show you whom he is like: ...then Calvinist, doing the work of Satan come along and pervert the Word of God and say...
He is like Lazarus, a DEAD man, dead people don't seek God, God has to EFFICACIOUSLLY CALL him, one of His ELECT chosen from eternity past, then Regenerate him so that he then may BELIEVE & Be saved.
Err!! Wrong!!
apollos6640 4 months ago
@apollos6640 The Lord came to me while I was in sin one night and told me to stop sinning and to follow him or I would be hardened. So yes, Luke 6:47 is true, I had to make the choice. And like you, I don't belive God pre-destines people for hell. For God is fair. I believe he gives us a free choice whether to heed his words and to believe. Cause Pharaoh was not always hardened right? This is just an experience that that i had, which in no means accounts to how God/Jesus always works.
Disciple1818 2 months ago
@Disciple1818 You can believe anything you want but I'll stick to what the bible says. And the bible clearly says that he predestined, he chose, he has an elect and there is nothing we can do to change that. And if you want God to be fair then we should all go to hell.
vicesquad08 2 weeks ago
@jbmanish excellent points. They're OBSSESSED w/ Jn.6:44 out of context, but fail to recognize 6:45 or other passages regarding Repentance, for ex:
Luke 6:47
"Everyone who COMES to Me and HEARS My words and ACTS on them, I will show you whom he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
apollos6640 4 months ago
"We have chosen to be objects of WRATH"-Driscoll
Driscolls wrong from the start-- according to Reform Theology, God Decreeds/Ordaineds/Predestined the vast Majority for DAMNATION "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either good or bad". That's right, BEFORE "Chosing to be an object of WRATH" as Driscoll states ... a mans ETERNAL DESTINY is FATED by God OUTSIDE ANY human decision, will, or exertion, so God may "glorify himself" for "His good pleasure according to Calvinism.
apollos6640 5 months ago
@apollos6640 This is nonsense. Calvinism is not biblical. When I examined calvinism I saw that it contradicted way too many scriptures and the context of the Bible dos not line up with calvinism. For instance calvinist say that Jesus Christ died for the church. This is true but in 2 Peter 2:1 we see that He also bought false teachers with His blood on the cross but they bring upon themselves destruction. continued....
jbmanish 4 months ago
@apollos6640 Furthermore in 1 John 2:2 we see that Jesus Christ died not only for us (Christians) but also for the sins of the whole world. John 6:44 says God must draw men but the next verse John 6:45 says those that learn of the Father will be drawn to Christ. John 1:9 Jesus enlightens the heart of every man in the world Acts 17:30 God commands all men to repent. The biggest thing I don't understand is why does God and Jesus Christ get upset and sad when sinners reject the truth continued..
jbmanish 4 months ago
@apollos6640 and perish? Romans 10:21 God has held out His hand to disobedient Israel. Matthew 23:37 Jesus Christ wept over Jerusalem because they disobeyed the truth. He would have gathered with them but they would not. Jeremiah 6:16 God tells these disobedient sinners to walk the good path and find rest for their souls but they said no we will not walk therein. Ezekiel 33:11 God does not enjoy the death of the wicked but wants to see them live. continued....
jbmanish 4 months ago
@apollos6640 God is sovereign and even though He wants none to perish 2 Peter 3:9 sinners will go to hell because of God's judgements. There are many more verses like these. Furthermore calvinist do not believe that God changes His mind. Jeremiah 18:10 If they do evil in My sight I will repent of the good I have intended for them. Many other scriptures show that God will sometimes change His mind. Calvinism contradicts the Bible. It does not make sense. The CONTEXT of Bible refutes it.
jbmanish 4 months ago
@MrHighkicks Thank you for reading the Bible for what it says and having common sense.
TheKJVberean 6 months ago
Predestination? Then why evangelize?!!
LLThenu 6 months ago
@LLThenu in love..it's commanded through the great commission, and also God chose the method that people would come to know Christ, that's through preaching the Gospel that has the power to save. I'm thinking of Romans 10:14 14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?[a] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? If we love Christ and love our neighbor, we would preach the Gospel/evangelize/minister
bearpr00f 5 months ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 6 months ago
Hosea 7:13 Woe to them, because they have strayed from me! Destruction to them, because they have rebelled against me! I long to redeem them but they speak lies against me.
kelark 7 months ago
@Padrenoe... Gods Will is for ALL to be saved (1 Tim 2:4) not wanting any to perish (2 Pet.3:9) having to delight in the Death of the wicked (Ez.18:23-32), He's a Ransom for all (1 Tim. 2:6), he's the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 Jn.2:2), He's the Savior of ALL people, Especially of those who believe (1 Tim.4:10), but to those who yet Reject His WILL (Lk.7:30) or RESIST His Holy Spirit (Act 7:51), God will relent of the good that He had intended for them (Jer.18:10).
apollos6640 7 months ago
Personally I'm not decided on the debate. People can make arguments from both sides, and until the Lord Himself gives me the answer, I will continue studying but refraining from choosing a side.
Rather than fighting amongst ourselves about the method in which God saved us, we should be fighting the Devil and tearing down his strongholds in this world, so God can save even more people.
tripletrules 7 months ago
@tripletrules God expects Christians to speak out against heresy and false teachers like Mark Driscoll.
1Atomtan 5 months ago
@1Atomtan Can you please show me how Mark Driscoll is heretical? I am a devout Christian who fears God and hates what is evil, so if Mark Driscoll really is a heretical false teacher, I would like to know.
As it stands, I hardly ever watch the man anyway. Most of my time is spent watching Piper, Washer, and Ravenhill. Still though, I would like to know.
tripletrules 5 months ago
@tripletrules There are many reasons. The mildest is a good place to start. " abstain from all " appearance " of evil. Driscoll embraces all the trappings of filthy modern culture without himself changing and without pushing others to changed..wrapped tightly in a fundamentalist Calvinist slant. That is the mild stuff. The Calvinism should be enough. He uses the word clitoris from the pulpit describing sexual acts between men and women and masturbation which just crude. I'm no prude either.
1Atomtan 5 months ago
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This guy is a calvinistic blasphemer who uses sophistry and lies to get around the fact that the god of calvinism is an arbitrary, capricious, despotic, satanic , monstrosity. Like someone said haha, in driscoll's analogy, it seems to me that it would fit better if, he had ten children stepping in front of the truck, and he chooses to only save three, EVEN THOUGH HE HAS THE ABILITY TO SAVE ALL TEN. Note- I am NOT an aminian- " lose your salvation" is blashemy too!
barrypatrickius 7 months ago
Why would he LIMIT God by saying He chose to save only some?
John 3:16 states God loves the whole world - everyone! That's why God had Jesus die for us all, not just some. He is really limiting God's love and power.
MrHighkicks 7 months ago
@MrHighkicks First off, NO ONE can limit God by their opinion or understanding. That being said, you cannot take one verse of the Bible and disregard many other verses that obviously support a different understanding of election and predestination (Romans 9, Ephesian 1-2).
Padrenoe 7 months ago
@MrHighkicks I don't believe he's attempting to limit God's power. We can't limit God, but I understand what you're saying.
you might look up limited atonement. there are a few viewpoints, but one mentions that God's power and ability is not limited, he has only limited the atonement in its scope.. check it out, it's good to study up on the doctrine.
bearpr00f 5 months ago in playlist driscoll and various
Who cares about predestination? God desires all to be saved. And if you love God then you try your best to help. Not tell people that there presdestined to hell. What is wrong with you people? Predestination is arguement that is no one can win.OnlyGODknows
Isaiah 55:8-9“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
ICarnagezI 8 months ago 2
@foreverinchrist1 God wills for all men to be saved, but no, not everyone will be. Why? Because as 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." Everyone has the chance to believe, not all will.
TheKJVberean 8 months ago
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Feared Osama? Now fear GOD!
Judgment Day is May 21
Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.
~W A T C H~
.
dimstar4now 9 months ago
haha, driscoll really got into this, nice! but in driscoll's analogy, it seems to me that it would fit better if, he had another ten children stepping in front of the truck, and he chooses to only save three, even though he had the ability to save all eleven.
atbigdog24002 9 months ago
@atbigdog24002 Question: Is everyone going to be saved? If not why?
foreverinchrist1 8 months ago
haha, driscoll really got into this, nice!
atbigdog24002 9 months ago
@jet375 Yes, scripture is very clear on election. Read Romans 9 again and don't just stick with that chapter but read the rest of the Bible and you will find its not election of calvinism.
TheKJVberean 9 months ago
Driscoll has the "Augustinian" view of predestination wrong. Augustine taught a double predestination! Calvin was not the first to teach this. Almost 1200 years before Calvin, Augustine was battling it with Pelagius! GET PHILLIP SCHAFF'S BOOK ON CHURCH HISTORY IT'S AUGUSTINE'S ANTI-PELAGIUS WRITTINGS AND RETRACTIONS! IF one is versed in Calvin's Institutes, than, Augustine will enrich & edify you. BUT BEWARE THERE ARE SOME FALSE DOCTRINE THAT AUGUSTINE HELD TO! THE WHOLE CHURCH HELD ALSO!
NB3K 9 months ago
Another Calvinist maniac. Such arrogance..
bwconklin 9 months ago
@bwconklin Scriptures are quite clear on election. Read all of Romans 9. It's VERY clear.
jet375 9 months ago
@tgillspy1
I admire your zeal. Calvin's moral integrity did appear to be proven uncertain. There must be a clear distinction between God's call to repentance, one's willingness to come, and God's gracious act of regenerating those who come (after God first calls).
This is the Wesleyan stance in a nutshell, and my stance.
DanPrinMan 9 months ago
Now I understand why his voice is always hoarse.
DanPrinMan 9 months ago
Only the Elect of God can hear these words and not be offended, but thats evidence of the rebirth
JesusNonEnviromental 9 months ago
predestination? maybe ashley just wanted her dads attention
muzicdrifter 10 months ago
@muzicdrifter We are sinners running from God. We don't want him and always choose sin, He hangs you back because he loves you. We will always be running into sin and death with out him grabbing hold to us and loving us first.
jet375 9 months ago
Well, I believe the point being made is that we have choosen, we choose Satan and the lie he told. In the beginning when man was in the garden with God, we choose to rebel against his command, by taking the fruit. By choosing to believe Satan instead of God we became Gods enemies.
mrstinkytoe 10 months ago
If we can't choose God we can't choose Satan because that wouldn't be a choice at all. His theology makes no sense. How can we be enemies of God if we didn't choose to be?
TheCumberlands34 10 months ago
Why does God save some and not others? How is that determination made?
fabtastic2 10 months ago
God does not create people to go to hell. to say He chose some is to say he did not choose others, that he simply watches indifferently as some run in front of the truck and kill themselves, or even sent them in that direction. That is not love. Love created us for love, when we reject that love we experience justice, even to death. To be loved is not a choice, that happens regardless, we do not choose Him. We do choose to reject Him, we choose sin. We can only submit to His justice and love.
kickinwayne45 10 months ago
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@knollwood21 Stay away from them. 1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and DOCTRINES of demons, Romans 16:18 "For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the naive."
apollos6640 10 months ago
my beliefs are a little on the election side but I don't believe we have absolutely have SOME part in receiving the Spirit. That said, I also don't think this point is very important eternally so I'm not too worried what anyone thinks.
This is a legit question, though: How would a Calvinist reconcile the idea of 100% predestination with the fact that God shows no favoritism. Wouldn't God purposely choose some instead of others mean that He favored them?
knollwood21 10 months ago
@prettylola1..."I guess we should be worshipping Driscoll if He's powerful enough to damage Gods character"... Go for it, You can do as you wish-- Driscolls mirepresenting the SOVEREIGN and HOLY HOLY HOLY GOD of the Scriptures by advocating a Man-Centered worldview, Divine Causal Determinism-- following his False shephards Augustine and Calvin and the Reformed philosophical traditions of men.
apollos6640 10 months ago
@m00sheLLe You need to study what "Calvinists" actually believe, because your analogy is not only an inaccurate depiction of our doctrines, but it also puts us on equal footing with God (that is a dangerous place to be).
prettylola1 10 months ago
I believe pre destination is false.
TheInvigorator 10 months ago
@CBALLEN... "Solomon was talking about accidents, risks, as opposed to dying of old age"... WRONG. Solomon correlates being excessively wicked with dying BEFORE your time. "Do not be excessively wicked and do not be a fool. Why should you die before your time?" LIKEWISE, Proverbs 10:27 "The fear of the Lord prolongs life,
But the years of the wicked will be shortened."
apollos6640 10 months ago
If your God deliberately turns His back on certain segments of humanity because they weren't "predestined" then I don't want to know him.
greyswans 10 months ago
@greyswans First of all, I'm NOT a Calvinist. Everyone is "predestined", however people have deliberately Sinned and rebelled against Him by their own free will. God now commands ALL men everywhere to Repent (Acts 17:26-31) this includes you, don't be like the Pharisees and Scribes who rejected Gods Will for their lives (Luke 7:30). So be obedient and turn away from your SINS, John 3:34-36. Don't listen to anything Mark Driscoll has to say, he's a fool and a false teacher damaging Gods Character
apollos6640 10 months ago
@apollos6640 Wow!!! I guess we should be worshiping Driscoll if he is powerful enough to damage the character of a Sovereign God!
prettylola1 10 months ago
@spolea4 "God is the only being that can truly say he has freewill"... God can do whatever He pleases-- correct. Likewise, man has been endowed with a limited amount of freedom because of His Grace: we can OBEY (John 3:34), or REJECT Gods purpose for our lives (Luke 7:30). Any further build up of wickedness will lead to a quicker death on Earth. "Do not be excessively wicked and do not be a fool. Why should you die before your time?" Eccl.7:17
apollos6640 10 months ago
@apollos6640 Eccl.7:17 is not talking about dying before God wants you to,God has numbered all our days,Solomon was talking about doing things that could take your life in an accident or from taking risks opposed to dying of old age,from a man's perspective.God has determined the amount of time we will each spend on Earth,He has determined exactly when,where and how death will happen for each of us.
CBALLEN 10 months ago
Most people who talk about " well i dont feel god wouldnt cause us to love him" or that " god would rather have us choose him back" ... Your missing the point.. Freewill isnt close to being a reality in scripture.. And therefore it isnt a discussion of, is it biblical? Its a discussion of your feelings of we have rights... God is the only being that can truly say he has freewill .. Because he can do whatever he wants.. There is no higher power than him.. We on the other hand are governed by lim
spolea04 10 months ago
im thinking of becoming a calvinist, but there is one thing i cant really get over. If God elects and predestines us to be saved, then why does he choose to save so few? maybe im misunderstanding it, but thats the only thing that really is in the way of my acceptance of Calvinistic theology.
mastercheef12345 10 months ago
@vintagetheology... "I would say that if you reject Reformed Theology then you reject solid Biblical doctrine" ...it doesn't matter to me what you wish to believe in, you are free to accept Augustinians position of Total Inability, adopted from the gnostic manecheaen beliefs of ELECTION. I say that If you ACCEPT this view, then U have been taken captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
apollos6640 10 months ago
@apollos6640 Calvinism has nothing to do with manecheaen beliefs,the Manecheaens believed that all matter was evil.You are such a lying dits.
CBALLEN 10 months ago
@vintagetheolog... please don't impose your habits onto me. I was right, it was pressumptious of you to comes off as a" know-it-all" by telling me to go read Rom.1 as if I were OBLIOUS to the WORD of GOD. Regarless, your testimony of "LOVING the Bible" does NOT add credibility to your Reformed Theology. I ALSO love the Word of God, 100% Holy Spirit Inspired indeed. But by redefining "SOVEREIGNTY" Reformers have also Redefinied the nature and character of GOD as well.
apollos6640 10 months ago
@vintagetheology... its a little bit pressumptious of you to think I've never read Rom.1. "God has consigned ALL to disobedience, so that He MAY have Mercy on ALL" iit doesn't read" All types" so don't ADD to the scriptures. Perhaps you should read Acts 17:26-30 and Preach the Gospel in the same way as Paul did. ASSUMING you've never read Acts 17. I reject REFORMED theology and find it unbiblical.
apollos6640 10 months ago
@apollos6640 Listen, we're brothers in Christ. I don't want an arguement. I never said or assumed that you had never read Romans 1, so don't put words in my mouth. But YOU are assuming that I have never read Acts 17, when actually Acts was the first book of the NT that I read after I became a Christian, & one of my favorite NT books that I have read multiple times. I would say that if you reject Reformed Theology then you reject solid Biblical doctrine. I would NEVER add to scripture by the way.
vintagetheology 10 months ago
@apollos6640 ...And also to add to my last post: I love the Bible & believe it is 100% Holy Spirit inspired. I believe Reformed Theology is 100% Biblical & I believe that it makes God look BEAUTIFUL. If you're a Christian it's because God had mercy on you, chose you, died for you, persued you, & regenerated you while you were still a sinner. He ultimately is the reason you persevere as a Christian in this life. Some of my fav scriptures are Romans 8:28-30 & Phillipians 1:6.
vintagetheology 10 months ago
Here is what Jesus says about predestination:
John 5:21
John 6:37-39
John 13:18
John 15:16
John 15:19
Matthew 24:31
vintagetheology 10 months ago
Well Mark is being very deceptive, he makes it appear as if you are going to hell for your sins. However, all CALVINISTS believe that people are either created for Heaven or Hell "before having done anything either GOOD or BAD in order that Gods purpose of ELECTION might continue"...They ERR because they don't know the Scriptures, if they knew them they would not go astray.
apollos6640 10 months ago
@apollos6640 I hate the name "Calvinist", but I do believe the 5 points of Calvinism are in fact Biblical. Not ALL Calvinists believe that God creates some for Heaven & creates some for Hell. The Bible only mentions God having mercy on some, & then leaving the rest to their sins, & by staying in sin they choose Hell. Read Romans 1:18-32. Christians are Christians because God chose them first, regenerated their hearts, which then made them willing to choose Him. This is truly saving grace.
vintagetheology 10 months ago
@Huesito7 All have by the grace of God been offered salvation. I think the biggest stumbling block to some is whether that salvation is resistable or not. Calvinists and some Lutherans would believe that salvation is resistable...hence predestination. Others believe that we must affirm our salvation....and yet others believe that salvation is irresistable for all and that the purpose of Christ in our lives is to extend the Good News to all.
edgwaterprog 10 months ago
I don't know why so many believe in election but not unconditional election. If it's that case, why did he make Pharaoh's heart hard, Why did he hate Esau, even before he was born? Why does he make some objects for wrath? So that his purpose in election might stand and for his creation to see his glory. But the !POINT! is that we needed a savoir! We were all condemned, but by the grace and love of God. He came down in the form of Christ, and by him, I am saved!! EVERYONE, Don't forget that!!!
indeed478 10 months ago
I don't know why some many believe in election but not unconditional election. If it's that case, why did he make Pharaoh's heart hard, Why did he hate Esau, even before he was born? Why does he make some objects for wrath? So that his purpose in election might stand and for his creation to see his glory. But the !POINT! is that we needed a savoir! We were all condemned, but by the grace and love of God. He came down in the form of Christ, and by him, I am saved!! EVERYONE, Don't forget that!!!
indeed478 10 months ago
@wolfec The disagreement I have with mark and all calvinists is the fact that they say we were elected before the world began, we having no responsibility. Electioin is conditional. We are saved by grace through faith. 2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall." Its clear election is after belief and we are to examine ourselves.
TheKJVberean 10 months ago
@wolfec You're right its in the bible. Election is, but unconditional election isnt.
TheKJVberean 10 months ago
@TheKJVberean Yes, I agree and I didnt mention unconditional election...
wolfec 10 months ago
Talking louder doesn't make you appear less crazy. In fact it often works the other way around.
brajamtho757 10 months ago
Exactly WHEN did we choose hell, you deceptive scum?
brajamtho757 10 months ago
@brajamtho757 When we sinned?
wolfec 10 months ago
@wolfec
Really, you were born doomed to hell. Did you sin before you were born? Did you make any choice before you were born? These preachings are 100% illogical and utterly deceptive.
Heck, even ongoing "sin" wouldn't be a choice to be tortured forever. When a person choses to ignore the god of the Bible, do you really think they see two choices, what "god" wants them to do on one side, and hell on the other? Few see it that way because we know hell is a myth.
brajamtho757 10 months ago
God didnt elect anybody, we need to rightly divide the word of truth, compare spiritual with spiritual. Chirst died for ALL that WHOSOEVER will believe will have everlasting life. Calvinism is a man made system. Its a false damnable gospel.
TheKJVberean 11 months ago
@TheKJVberean Dude haven't you READ scripture?!?! It's all in the Bibel bro
wolfec 10 months ago
Let me pose this question. If an infant is born with original sin, and all sin deserves eternal punishment, how does God punish infants who die shortly after birth? They are imbued with sin and so God's "righteous judgement" requires that he punishes them. Why would God willfully create life, curse it with the sin of Adam, decided it's death and then punish it for eternity? To what greater purpose does this serve? Why create a soul with the express purpose of torture? Malevolent Calvinism!
JEGranberg 11 months ago
Calvinism is a very heartless theology. I wish "Christians" would actually embrace the teachings of Christ and not Calvin, because the two's teachings are incompatible.
westernlions 11 months ago
@westernlions Ok here is Jesus teaching reprobation. Mat 15:13 He answered, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.
NB3K 11 months ago
@NB3K
It does say something about God's Sovereignty, but it doesn't say those people who don't come to Christ in this life are eternally rejected and barbequed. Consider 1 Corinthians 15: 22-28.
westernlions 11 months ago
@westernlions Consider this my friend
Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Jos 11:20 For it was the LORD's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted to destruction and should receive no mercy but be destroyed, just as the LORD commanded Moses.
NB3K 11 months ago
@NB3K
In the context of Jos. 11:20, God does harden Pharoah's heart to use him/them to show his power and they're destruction from a literal battle with Israel is clearly death, not eternally burned.
It's similar in Rom. 9:22, these people are prepared for destruction, used to make known his power. This does show God uses people for his own purpose, but it doesn't say they're rejected and barbequed forever. Doesn't support reprobation...
westernlions 11 months ago
@westernlions No you are wrong. You are trying to twist what the text actually means.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
Rom 11:8 as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day."
When it says. " the rest were hardened", what do you think is meant by that? But you will find a way to twist this also. You reject the truth!
NB3K 11 months ago
@NB3K No, I am not. You just seem desperate to defend this doctrine.
In reference to Romans 11, the elect are the firstfruits of salvation, not the only ones to recieve it.
It talks about offering salvation to the Gentiles in order to make Israel jealous.
Romans 11:15 For if thier rejection means the the reconcilation of the world, what will thier acceptance mean but life from the dead?
Romans 11:26 and so that all Israel will be saved; as it is written.
westernlions 11 months ago
@westernlions No the elect or God's chosen are the only ones to receive salvation! I do not need to defend the doctrine of election. The truth always defends its self from people like you who deny it.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen."
This follows the context of Romans 9 when Paul states
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
NB3K 11 months ago
@westernlions The elect are what Jesus says :All that the Father has given Him.
Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
But your false theology will say that the Father gave Jesus every person in the world but that is not the words of Christ when he tells the unbelievers in John 10 that the reason they do not believe is because they are not His Sheep! THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!
NB3K 11 months ago
@NB3K
It does say God has chosen people, but not excluded others. Don't get me wrong, God is the one who give us faith and draws us to himself(John 6:44). Christ did die for others and not just your "elect.".
1st John 2:2 and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
The world does include more than just yourself and your "elect.
Phil. 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,...
westernlions 11 months ago
@moejobe very good point. Its bc God doesnt "elect". We become the elect when we get saved. This doctrine of unconditional election hinders Gods grace. Its a doctrine of devils. Ephesians ch1 calvinists such as driscoll tend to miss "According as he hath chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world..." these passages God is addressing the believer, Mark probably doesnt have "in him" in his bible cuz its a modern version. This doctrine takes the focus away from the cross.
TheKJVberean 11 months ago
he only answered the election of why God saves but He didnt answer anything about why God elects.
moejobe 11 months ago
{Comment Removed By Obama Administration}
NB3K 1 year ago
I can't help but think of the kids who run in front of the truck who God chooses not to save.
ourgenerationisdumb 1 year ago
And the way Mark illustrated how man is rebellious towards God, and will not repent, again further emphasizes what the Bible has to say about man in (Romans 8:7-8) "because the mind set on the flesh is HOSTILE toward God; for it DOES NOT subject itself to the law of God, for it is NOT EVEN ABLE TO DO SO, and those who are in the flesh CANNOT please God." If it was left up to us(man), we would all choose sin/evil, yet out of God's grace, those whom the Father has given the Son will be raised up.
xWhiteLightning 1 year ago
Amen!! I used to reject calvinism and election for many months & many different reasons, however once I really turned to scriptural doctrine, I find it is in fact biblical. For as Jesus Himself said in (John 6:37) "All that the Father GIVES ME will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out." I find it amazing how people think that they, on their own will can come to Christ, yet scripture teaches (John 6:65) "...that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
xWhiteLightning 1 year ago
okay but could you answer my question ? Could it be God's secret will that all men should be saved or could it be that it is his revealed will that all men be saved ? If God has two wills, why is double-mindedness condemned in the Scriptures? If God has two wills, why does the Bible say, "He is of one mind?" If God has a secret will, how did you gain a knowledge of it? PM me
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
@Dwrancho144 History is God's revealed will. In the Scriptures is God's INSTRUCTED WILL!
NB3K 1 year ago
Our God would die? Christ is God but died only as Man not as God.His Spirit is always One with God. There is no God without perfect unity of the Godhead. The Word never died whom is Christ. Christ always God gave up His sacrificial body only. He in Spirit was never seperate from Father, and Spirit.
polopowers1 1 year ago
@TheKJVberean, you have a heart for the loss... God bless you. Calvin's Institutes of a Christian Religion quotes Augustine more than 400x... that should give you an idea of the true Origins of Calvinism. You'll notice that immediately, a Calvinist will begin to attack you with words, usually in a prideful, condescending fashion, then they'll try to discredit you by associating you with every known heretic that ever lived... how sad. Stray Strong in the Faith.
apollos6640 1 year ago
If you're a Calvinist you better not sing the old hymn...
"I Have Decided to Follow Jesus."
According to Calvinism, we have no choice in the matter
rustysruger 1 year ago
@rustysruger untrue statement, one does decide to follow Jesus but only after the Father allows it as Jesus says in John Chapter 6. Our choices in service to God are only after God make this possible by giving us a new heart.
MarineShape175 1 year ago
@MarineShape175 Read "What Love is This" by Dave Hunt for a thorough examination of Calvinism,
rustysruger 1 year ago
@rustysruger I'll stick with the words of Jesus over Dave Hunt, but maybe I'll check it out...
MarineShape175 1 year ago
@MarineShape175 Agreed! That's always best...
rustysruger 1 year ago
@rustysruger Nah pick up a copy of Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology NOW THERE IS WHERE YOU WILL FIND AN ACTUAL REPRESENTIVE OF CALVINISM!
NB3K 11 months ago
Thats also blasphemy to the core, with what calvin taught. His 5 points go hand in hand with it. Study the Word of God and not calvin.
TheKJVberean 1 year ago
I read his institutes and thats as far as one needs to read bc he has the foundation incorrect. He says Jesus descended into hell to be tormented, in other words Jesus died spiritually - which is heresy from the pit of hell. He says that was "a greater and more excellent price" than the cross. Our redemption was paid at the cross, His death the shedding of His blood. Calvin goes beyond that. When one goes beyond the cross they go into every false doctrine and also get the label as a heretic!
TheKJVberean 1 year ago
How can any one believe in a sky fairy in the 21st century ? its insane. There is no god. If we got rid of all religion the world would be a much happier and safer place.
assym2006 1 year ago
@assym2006 what do you believe ?? everyone believes something , so called scientific understanding of our world? what is do you think makes the world a better,happier or safer place.Human nature doesnt seem to be doing a great job-we seem to be destroying the whole planet-isnt it time we had some serious direction
in the way we do life? if you can perceive of something i.e the truth it exists so dont stop searching until you have found it!!!
mgoeldi2007 1 year ago
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--
Rom 9:12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
NB3K 1 year ago
@marineshape works based? explain your reasoning. Do yourself a favor and read the bible for what it is and dont base what you believe off mans theology. Calvin was a heretic. Jesus Christ died that all men might be saved. To say He only died for the elect is heresy, and the fact that he predestines some to life and death is blasphemy. He died for all men that whosoever believeth will have eternal life. you have no argument, you defend 5 heretical points and not the Word of God.
TheKJVberean 1 year ago
@TheKJVberean You don't know what Calvin taught! Calvin's Institutes is to be read along with his commentaries. Because if you read Calvin in context, you will see the Gospel in the Bible. Calvin saw the truth and embraced it. Darwin 300 years later and came and saw the truth and rejected it. Darwin did not try to adopt a verison of Christianity and FAUGHT TOOTH AND NAIL AGAINST IT!
NB3K 1 year ago
"He has not allowed you to receive what your sins deserve!"
Yet, He allows others to receive what their sins deserve. Riiiiiiight. That is not justice. That is not just. We all deserve hell, that is just. God has made a way of escape by paying the penalty we earned with His own blood, that is love. God offers salvation as a free gift, that is grace. God offers salvation to all men equally, that is just.
DiJohnny18 1 year ago
@DiJohnny18 Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
IT SAYS FOR MANY. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT HIS BLOOD IS POURED OUT FOR EVERY PERSON FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN BUT ONLY FOR MANY! THAT "MANY" ARE THE ELECT CHILDREN OF GOD!
NB3K 1 year ago
@NB3K "For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
Wait, let me guess, that "world" is only the elect, and "whosoever" only refers to those that God will allow to believe? Well, you may be able to muddy that vs up to your liking and justify calvinism, but you can't get any clearer than 1 John 2:2 "he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also... the whole world."
DiJohnny18 11 months ago
@DiJohnny18 Ok I just watched Luther for the first time. Luther was explaining a correct translation for scripture that Jerome may have mistranslated. In the Greek there is no "whosoever" THIS IS FACT! THIS IS NOT MAN MADE! UNLIKE THE DREAM OF MAN HAVING A FREEWILL. BEFORE CALVIN & LUTHER, THERE WAS THE MORNING STAR OF THE REFORMATION HIS NAME WAS JOHN WYCLIFFE. THIS IS THE FIRST TRANSLATION FROM THE LATIN VULGATE INTO ENGLISH IN THE 1390'S. CONT'
NB3K 11 months ago
@DiJohnny18 This translation I admit may have it's flaws in the way the english is constructed, but you can clearly see that your infrerance is based upon a mistranslation.
JOHN 3:16 For God louede so the world, that he yaf his `oon bigetun sone, that ech man that bileueth in him perische not, but haue euerlastynge lijf.
You see here Wycliffe translated what you call "whosoever" that each man that believes perishes not , but has life. It is not universal to everyone but only to believers!
NB3K 11 months ago
@DiJohnny18 Now we have the "Tyndale" New Testament, which is translated from Erassmus Greek-Latin New Testament. ie.[RECEIVED TEXT] and I believe Tyndales English New Testment corrisponds to Luther's New Testament. I know Tyndale prepared his New Testament under the feet of Luther.
JOHN 3:16For God so loveth the worlde yt he hath geven his only sonne that none that beleve in him shuld perisshe: but shuld have everlastinge lyfe [TYNDALE 1525] Calvin was only 16 years old!
NB3K 11 months ago
@DiJohnny18 If you do not accept the fact that you may be wrong in the interpretation of John 3:16 I do not know what to tell you. Wycliffes and Tyndales are the 1st two english copies of the New Testament. and it follows what jesus say in John 6, and John 10 and john 17 and so forth.
NB3K 11 months ago
@DiJohnny18 Than also show me proof in the Word of God that the word "WORLD" means everyone that will exsist or has exsisted or exsists now. You can't because the Bible says God hated Esau. Therefore if God hated Esau than he did not "love" everyone person that will ever be because God hated Esau. Esau would have been a Vessel of Wrath "fitted" for destruction. What about the Cannonites did God love them too when He had them devoted to destruction and not to receive anymercy at all!
NB3K 11 months ago
Calvinism is man made doctrine from the pit of hell. God doesnt predestine some to be saved, that goes against His will. Mark is a false teacher, he needs to repent. Calvinism is one of satans favorite tools infiltrating the church
TheKJVberean 1 year ago
@TheKJVberean you are of a works based religion.
MarineShape175 1 year ago
@MarineShape175 are you afraid to do good works?, Matt5:16 let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your FATHER in heaven. James 1:22 But be doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.(doesnt this mean Love which requires some form of works)James 2:24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. (Martin Luther wanted to tear the letter of James out of the bible as it didnt fit into his doctrine very well)
mgoeldi2007 1 year ago
@mgoeldi2007 I believe in doing good works just fine, however, I believe good works are a result of God's grace, through the gift of salvation. They are not a means TO BE saved.
Romans 9:16
So then it is not of him that WILLETH, nor of him that RUNNETH, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Paul's explaining in this verse that it's not our will or our works that save us, but God's calling and election. Our will and our works in service to God is an after effect.
MarineShape175 1 year ago
@MarineShape175 Yes and Amen to that: may I add-Phil. 2:13 For it is GOD who works in you both to will and to do for HIS good pleasure.But what does it mean, work out your salvation with fear and trembling?There is however a great danger that the interpretation of works is used as an excuse to follow CHRIST once saved.Lets face it if a greater percentage of christians were on fire for CHRIST inspired by the HOLY SPIRIT we would have gained a little more ground from the enemy.
mgoeldi2007 1 year ago
Driscoll needs to study more because Gottschalk the 9th century Augustinian monk did not teach that God was the author of sin, but he was a supralapsarian and believed that man's fallen condition was no condition upon why God hardens, but because God willed to create them for this purpose as Proverbs 16:4 implies.
NB3K 1 year ago
The problem with Calvanism is saying that God has not elected everyone.
It's completely blasphemus.
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
@TheOkstate2012 it's not Calvinism but the Gospel!
NB3K 1 year ago
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@TheOkstate2012 What you do not think God separates the Goats from the Sheep?
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
If one believes that credit it to God, and be very humble. God exalts the humble and God crushes the pridful.
NB3K 1 year ago
We've chosen hell? Every single being? We've chosen hell, death, satan?
Is this guy stupid or something?
Because of Adam we all die, because of Christ some live
Yes. That makes perfect sense. Thank you for making clear how stupid Christianity is.
He's story is complete bull crap. He only had to save ONE person. It would make more sense if there were two about to die, and he only chose to save one, when he could of saved two.
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
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Calvinism and other unsound doctrines have to take bible out of context and misrepresent it using allegorical methods of interpretations. Its no wonder we have soo many denominations today, what ever happened to taking the bible for face value? Let God be true and every man a lier. Get the only true Word of God for english (KJV) and study to show YOURSELVES approved unto God. Listen to "thus saith the Lord" and not "thus saith john calvin, my pastor, etc."
TheKJVberean 1 year ago
Calvinism and other unsound doctrines have to take bible out of context and misrepresent it using allegorical methods of interpretations. Its no wonder we have soo many denominations today, what ever happened to taking the bible for face value? Let God be true and every man a lier. Get the only true Word of God for english (KJV) and study to show YOURSELVES approved unto God. Listen to "thus saith the Lord" and not "thus saith john calvin, my pastor, etc."
TheKJVberean 1 year ago
Mark is another false teacher just as piper and the rest of the calvinist preachers. Everyone is called to salvation, its our choice to respond to it, believe or not believe. If we choose to believe THEN we become elect and God predestined that those who believed would be conformed to the image of his son, when? at the rapture. calvinism/reformed theology just brings confusion to the believer and eliminates the simplicity of the gospel. these ppl also use corrupt bible. Need to have KJV Bible!
TheKJVberean 1 year ago
@TheKJVberean well if he KJV bible was the only true bible, how come JESUS CHRIST you become like a child you can in no way enter the kingdom.So theology may not at all get you there but faith.If you check the manuscripts and look at the greek text you soon find things not to be linguistically correct, furthermore
the use of the english language has changed- like shakespearean language.
mgoeldi2007 1 year ago
@ourgenerationisdumb that's a very good point and I wonder how predestinationists would respond.
Gruenders 1 year ago
Hell is not mentioned because there is no hell. It is fiction concocted by people. There is judgment and the lake of fire, but that is a future event. The weary prophet asked God to hide his soul in Sheol that he might find peace. The Greek equivalent is Hades (literally UNPERCEIVED). KJV also translated Tartarus and Gehenna as hell. The KJV was ordered translated so that an illiterate farm boy could understand it. It's NT was never intended to be a deep study Bible. Too many metaphors.
1208mlassen 1 year ago
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1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Adams Choice not mine.
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
So he said in "love he predestined us, the predestination part is the love part". That's good and all but what about those that has not been predestined for God?
Does that mean that God only loves those he predestined?
His story with his little girl doesn't make sense since he only had one person to save. It would make sense if he had two girls and only saved one.
He said every single being has "chosen" "sin". We were born sinful, how can we choose sin if we are literally born sinful??
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
"As He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight, in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son." The Body of Christ is a unique form of salvation above the rest. It is by God's choice, beginning with the advent of Paul and ending at the rapture. Unlike the rest of mankind, we will not be resurrected to stand at the Great White thrown judgment. Those who are whose names are found in the Book of life will enter God's Kingdom.
1208mlassen 1 year ago
I'm trying to get a better grasp on Calvinism and what Driscoll believes. Could someone help me out? Romans 2:11 says that God does not show favoritism. But by picking some and not others, is He not doing exactly that? It seems to me that we have all turned away, but that He desires a relationship with all of us, not just some of us.
ourgenerationisdumb 1 year ago
@ourgenerationisdumb Hi there. If you read the verses before and after, I think you will come to understand the context. He is talking about Jews and Gentiles. Under the new covenant, it is both Jew and Gentile who can become free in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:11-18 also brings this fact to life. The Jews were the chosen people in the old covenant, and this made them proud. Paul is telling them that with Christ, both have been "brought near" by His blood! God bless!
wuebbsco 1 year ago
@wuebbsco Very good point. That indeed is what Paul is talking about. Like you said, "it is both Jew and Gentile who can become free in Christ Jesus." But it still seems that Paul is making the bigger point that God does not have favorites. Doesn't it seem within God's character that He loves everyone? When Jesus was being nailed to the cross, he didn't say, "Forgive the elect, Father, for they know not what they do." No. He loved even those who were nailing Him down. God bless you.
ourgenerationisdumb 1 year ago
@ourgenerationisdumb You mention Jesus being nailed to the cross. Don't forget, it was all of our sins that nailed him to the cross. There is no one who is without sin. You should Read Romans 9:9-24....Specifically vss 15-16.
God will have mercy on whom He wills.
Chloe also makes a good point. God is not showing favoritism to any particular people. Jesus came to save both Jews and Gentiles, all of whom were deserving of hell!....something the Jews didn't want to hear!
wuebbsco 1 year ago
@wuebbsco You said, "it was all of our sins that nailed him to the cross." Exactly! But you don't seem to believe that. You believe he only died for the elect; therefore, according to you, it was only their sins that nailed him to the cross. I have read and studied Romans 9, and although it seems to argue for your viewpoint, I think it actually argues for the opposite. Look where the "I will have mercy on whom..." verse comes from: Exodus 33:19. God has mercy on Moses because Moses had faith.
ourgenerationisdumb 1 year ago