You forgot to mention. Tesla roadster does not come with Power Steering, Radio or CD (i think not sure of this), No ABS, No Cruise Control, No Optional GPS. Still a good idea though.
I thought running out of fuel in a petrol car meant a huge maintainence bill to clean the engine of all the shit that gets sucked up from the bottom of the tank.... Making running out of fuel in a petrol car way more stupid and embarassing I'd say. If I'm correct (because this is just what I've been told) then this might be worth mentioning in the show.
no, you just refil it, no shit gets sucked out the bottom of the tank, thats what the fuel filter is for.
on old diesels if you ran out you needed to crack the injectors off and reprime the pump, which is a 10 minute job if you know what you're doing. A confusing few hours waiting for recovery if not.
@zogworth So the fuel filter doesnt ever get clogged or even the injectors and after than the fuel pressure regulator diaphragms gives out on top of that the sparkies need to be changed every 5000km ? And i havent even got to the engine lubrication system! Fucking dingbat. the ICE has more parts that would likely fail than an EV so get that in your stupid little brain.
@lcw1980 - whilst true about the less moving parts running out of energy in a EV is more of a pain. This was the only bit of the video that was a let down for me "if you run out of fuel, if you are in the middle of nowhere, if you are 20 miles away from a petrol station". Just admit that its more of a pain in an EV. If you are going to produce a balanced review then do it - or point to extended range electric cars that have a backup motor, as i believe these will catch on first.
@lcw1980 I am so confused. I mentioned none of these things. I was commenting on the process for refuelling a car. But you pull a straw man argument out of thin air to insult me, I think it is you sir that is the ding bat.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I don't know who did the research for this episode but it's full of nonsense. The well to wheel "information" seems to suggest a coal powered car produces less than 1/10 the emissions of petrol. However the 40g claimed for coal is out by a factor of about 4, and the claim that 3/4 of the emission from petrol come before the engine is upside down, 3/4 comes from burning the fuel. Correct there two mistakes and the only real advantage is the ability to switch to green electricity.
@spinycrayfish The figures I quoted in this episode came from the Royal Academy of Engineering report of 2008, there have been many other reports which come up with many different figures. Interestingly the most commonly quoted reports are from organisations directly funded by oil corporations. It is now widely accepted that to refine one gallon of gasoline requires 9 kWh of electricity, some argue this is 'total energy cost' but others dispute this. The figures are not in any way 'nonsense.'
You're welcome to your opinion, but it appears to me that you are selectively quoting a report that confirms your beliefs and aids your views. I'm all for electric cars, but If you accept any of the figures from various sources that contradict yours (which appear rose tinted on both sides of the equation by a massive margin), then they require an infrastructure company like Better Place to ensure 100% renewables to make them environmentally viable on a significant scale.
@fullychargedshow I don't want to knock the car (as I do believe the future will involve some kind of vehicle like this) but what about all the mining and processing of metals required for batteries? Surely the power required negates the argument about mining, refining and transporting oil.
@ToneSpectra According to a LowCVP (UK) study, manufacturing an electric car produces 8.8 tons of CO2, while gasoline car "only" 5.6 tons. The battery manufacturing accounts to 43% of the emissions of an electric car. So about 3.7 tons per car. Sounds much? Now take a look at the tail-pipe emissions of a gas car for 150 000km. That's more than 22 tons. And that's even before the fact that we SHOULD take the emissions from oil production into account (which would at least triple this figure).
@ToneSpectra A lot of th e concerns around mining for metals for the batteries and the environmental impact it has relates to nickel based batteries. Most electric cars are now using lithium batteries which are much kinder to the environment.
@fullychargedshow (Also, aren't fossil-fuel powered machines and vehicles required to do the job of mining, processing and transporting these battery materials?)
Much as I look forward to the widespread availability of electric cars and would kill to own a Tesla, there is a relevant point about running out of charge - in a liquid fuel auto, it's much easier to get a refill. Apart from that, it's electric all the way.
@R4t10n4L That will change, and honestly... I'm willing to bet you can find an electrical outlet in the middle of nowhere easier than you can find a gas station... Provided that people who own said electrical outlet would be nice enough to let you plug in for a while. Theoretically at some point every light pole that exists could be fitted with a car charge port.
the advantage of a electric car is you charge it cheap at night and you have a full battery in the morning, while a petrol car doesnt have that luxury, anyway loved the episode
Well, I would rather drive my 18mpg WRX than any electric car in the world. However, I am a car enthusiast, and have a burning hate for other methods of powering cars. Love the sounds of a gas car, and nothing beats working on an engine. You all can have your fun in fuel efficient slow box's, but I will always choose gas. If gas runs out. I will walk.
Many thanks fullychargedshow (and Robert) for this.
I am thinking about getting a Tesla Roadster and found this to be a good balanced view compared to other shows. This will probably be enough to convince me to go for it. We shouldn't be surprised that there are vested intrerests and baised views out there. Many many people rely on the current status quo and are not jumping with joy at the prospect of loosing their job or business, but, the writing is on the wall.
Last time I heard your voice was on a rerun of Scrapheap Challenge! (aka Junkyard Wars over here which kinda ruined it as always) Great to see you in front of a camera again, and for such a great series too!
I thought that although they did poke fun at the Tesla, that was to highlight its obsolescence in comparison to fuel cell cars which are looking rather more exciting (in a petrolhead's eyes). One thing that does concern me is the battery replacement, and also the cost of just a normal car. There is no way in hell I could afford a Tesla... What about a decent average car such as a Mondeo equivalent?
@andygriff1987 Can I suggest you look at another ep of Fully Charged featuring the Honda FCX Clarity, a hydrogen Fuel Cell car. Current cost over $2 million, so the silly expensive battery electric verses the cheap, sensible fuel cell is a bit of a myth. It's possible your grandchildren may be able to drive hydrogen cars, but it's a minimum of 50 years away and we kind of need an alternative about now. Also check the Nissan Leaf review, quarter the cost of a Tesla and available now.
@andygriff1987 Another issue with FCVs is that while everyone complains that EVs will need to have the batteries replaced after X (usually 10) years (false!) but nobody discusses the fact that the fuel cell units need to re-manufactured after so many hours of operation - usually 6-8 years worth of driving based on average habits. That's easily several grand right there. Meanwhile, Li batteries are getting cheaper almost by the day, projected by some to drop 30% in price in the next year.
Robert, well done and intellectually truthful. If viewers/readers are EAGER for additional truth about electric cars watch Jack Rickard's videos! web.me.com/mjrickard/ & on youtube... "1 A Convenient Response to an Inconvenient Truth - EV"
Pretty good overall, but I'm skeptical about his well-to-wheel argument. If it raises CO2/km from ~140 to ~450, it means that roughly 2/3 of the energy that comes out of the well is used in pumping, refining, and transporting. I know these take a lot of energy...but come on...they don't take MOST of it. The EROI on gasoline is about 5:1. That would raise CO2/km from 140 to about 170.
@blurglide If you are EAGER for additional truth about electric cars watch Jack Rickard's videos! web.me.com/mjrickard/ & on youtube... "1 A Convenient Response to an Inconvenient Truth - EV"
@deadmantyping2 If viewers/readers are EAGER for additional truth about electric cars watch Jack Rickard's videos! web.me.com/mjrickard/ & on youtube... "1 A Convenient Response to an Inconvenient Truth - EV"
@Nealosaurus I am very happy to inform you that Tesla pays me nothing, they never have and they never would. They loaned me the car for 4 days, so if that counts as corrupt bribery then I am guilty. I don't need Tesla to pay me anything for me to admire what they have done, and for me to hold the strident opinions I do about the feasibility, superiority and economic sense of ditching internal combustion in favour of electric propulsion.
@fullychargedshow Well then I should apologise. To be honest I've followed your videos for some time and you have always seemed very pro-Tesla. I incorrectly assumed that you must have been getting some sort of funding from them. Now I understand better that you are just generally a fan of both their engineering and what they have been able to accomplish, both of which are, I think, very laudable. As a "car person" I do quite enjoy your productions and analysis. I apologise for my comment!
@fullychargedshow Robert, well done and intellectually truthful. If viewers/readers are EAGER for additional truth about electric cars watch Jack Rickard's videos! web.me.com/mjrickard/ & on youtube... "1 A Convenient Response to an Inconvenient Truth - EV"
I don't believe some of the conspiracy theories banded around about electric cars and their history, but I do believe there are organisations and news sources who are anti e.v for whatever reason. There seem's to be a new E.V hurdle to jump every few months. This months drama is china's stubborness over Metal exports which is always linked to E.V's.
Maybe all of those cars you mentioned such as the turbo and f40 won't be as fast to 60 because of the tesla's instantaneous torque,but they will absolutely decimate it after that. And all these so called races favored the electric car, starting from a standstill. Put the tesla against comparatively priced car from a 60 roll and see what happens.
Very good show with some wonderful FACTS. It's funny when you look at the people telling lies about electric cars when it is clearly the way forward, it just makes the mind boggle. Keep up the good work, hopefully we will all soon be driving around in clean cars. Preferably a Tesla, or that Citroën’s Survolt. Both beautiful and fun cars. Take that a certain popular light entertainment show!
When a gasoline powered car runs out of fuel (which only happens because of bad planning, btw), someone walks up to it carrying a 10lb can of liquid, pours it in the tank and the car is instantly available, at full power for a limited range. That's the kind of convenience EV's have to compete with.
@aqueousone I'm not saying the EV option is any easier, but how long does it take for that someone to appear beside the car and refuel it? If you happen to run out of petrol beside a filling station, you're in luck. If you run out many miles from nowhere, your only hope is a friendly passerby or a call to a roadside recovery service.
Building electro magnets under our roads might also be a good idea, charging as you drive. They could turn on when a car moves over them as when you move a coil built into the car over a magnet a charge is induced (Victorian science, see Maxwell). Obviously, not enough to give perpetual motion but I bet it would increase range significantly and it could be done in motorway resurfacing or new builds for the longer journeys.
very nice show no bullshit all true facts maybe the thing when those idiots made the car suppostly run out of battery were paid by some big oil company to block the truth about this car the truth that is going to compete head to head with big oil companies plus it can be charged with sun power or wind power
@bonds911 No, top gear faked the Tesla running out of power because Jeremy Clarkson thinks environmentalists are idiots and doesn't believe in global warming. He doesn't need to be payed to lie about electric cars.
Great show! I really liked the pilot and I'm sure this will become a big show because so many people are rooting for EV cars, and a better way to take care of our planet.
Haven't read the comments here for a while, really wonderful points being made by people and it clearly shows that there is a huge amount of interest in the subject. Thanks for watching and getting fired up.
tell me, do you have any idea how many fuel there is wasted when building a wind-turbine, solar-panels or nuclear central and keep it running? the waste of nuclear, you get to dump it somewhere. Solar panels not even producing above 15% of efficiency. way too expensive. lets not forget about that big battery in the car, what to do with it when it dies? besides 2 minutes in the petrol station or 5 hours charging... I love hybrid but electrical is still too young to market itself properly.
@darupz Two points: Unlike a petrol car, you almost never have to stop to refuel an electric car; you have a "full tank" every time you leave home. Presumably your car is parked for more than five hours per day...? Point two: Something like 90 to 95 percent of the Tesla battery can be melted down and used to build new batteries. They have an article on it with photos explaining the recycling process in great detail.
@Keeper1st Fact is that you need the infrastructure to refuel an electric car. when i park it around the corner i don't get that possibility. Not all people have a garage to put their car in. that's one thing you need to work on to get it selling. No offense but it's a silly thing having to plug in your car. A system like swapping a fuel cell at a station would be nice. You pop yours out, pop the charged one back in and you're on the road again. Dreams, but I hope they ever come true.
@darupz Yeah, it isn't possible for someone without a garage at the moment, alas. The battery-swap idea is something Tesla has worked on with their Model S. It is designed with the battery pack on the bottom, which can be swapped out in five minutes. Now for the infrastructure...
@Keeper1st Just make that the automotive industry comes quickly to a point where there is a battery standard for all cars. E.g: Nissan battery brakes down, drive into Peugeot garage, buy new battery, put it in. Come home, someone needs to go get something but battery needs to be charged. Gets mine out, put in in the Ford. I charge the Ford battery up. I put the battery in the Nissan and go to the gym.
@FrontalTraction How often do you have to go out of your way, stop on the way to or from work, to refuel a gasoline car? You never have to do that with electric, since it's refueled at home. Unless you're going on a really long trip, "stopping for gas" is a thing of the past. When the batteries are spent, the nickel is used to make new batteries. What about all that toxic motor oil? It can't be turned into new motor oil -- only burned for fuel.
@FrontalTraction Oh, unlike lead-acid batteries or motor oil then. Fact is that anything we create will have a negative impact on the environment (this is why the buzz term is "reduce the carbon footprint" -- not "eliminate" it). What matters most is to make the least impact, and there is no question that electric cars (through their usage more than their creation) make a far smaller impact.
@Keeper1st So burning coal to produce electricity is clean? Right now, if you live in the U.S. Chances are your electricity comes from fossil fuel, so unless you live in a place where electricity comes from hydro, wind, solar, or another renewable resource, your "clean" electric car is dirty.
@Keeper1st My point is that Electric cars are good for urban areas and short trops, but Gas is more versatile and practical due to the range and fast refuel time. For example, you can't do a road trip in an electric car due to range.
@FrontalTraction How is THAT your point of making the misleading claim that electric cars are "dirty"? Truth is, you've been backed into a corner time and time again. Now you've admitted that electric cars are indeed at least "good". Infrastructure is still needed for the occasional 200+ mile trip, true. People bought celphones when they were only of use in big cities. Likewise, people will buy electric cars for city use, provided that other people stop spreading misinformation about them.
@FrontalTraction i think ill sick up with top gear ohh im a big crying littl baby why dont you stick your finger and get the fuck out here then if you dont like it
@FrontalTraction yeah sorry but just saying you know top gear is about fast cars not electrics if you searched electric cars you knew you wasnt gonna find top gear right its cool if you go to their video and say top gear is the best but why you gotta put same thing on videos that try their best at what their do dont support dont bother at least werevre have a good one
I've driven a battery electric vehicle for the last 11 years. I started with an EV-1 and then a RAV4-EV. They're wonderful cars, and have met 95% of my daily driving needs. As a commuter car, an EV is imminently practical today. On the rare occasion that I drive my Prius, it's such a disappointment to have to visit a gas station. Ugh.
Thanks also for taking on Top Gear's fraudulent treatment of the Tesla. Jerks.
@mjkobb It wasn't fraudulent, don't you know everyone has their own personal petrol pump at home, and no one ever runs out of fuel in an I.C car, it has never happened ever! Besides it's not as if we can implement quick chargers for $20,000 that charge to 80% from 15-30 minutes and there is no way JFE engineering in japan have made a 3 minute 50% quick charger, no way at all
Just you wait until lithium is old hat and the boffins put silver in the batteries.
Silver polymer batteries will deliver twice the energy as the currently available batteries.
Until that happens it may be worth getting your hands on some silver bullion as it's relatively cheap right now. What do you think will happen to the price? ;)
@DrZorenstein Well, I have to disagree with you obviously. I know they said 16 hours, I was doing this thing called 'exaggeration for effect,' something the TG guys have perfected. I am in no way trying to compete with Top Gear, I am merely trying to gently point to an alternative view. They did lie about the car and they did get caught doing it. Those are simple facts.
@DrZorenstein You're quoting the wrong part of the show. It was 16 hours to charge from a normal 13 amp socket. Jeremy actually said that if you charged it from a "little windmill" it would take 600 hours or 25 days. This is what Robert was referring to (3 weeks not 6).
And you say, "top gear is way better". Well, in terms of budget and manpower involved I would have to say that Robert's show is WAY better.
Instead of insisting he "stops his show now" why not suggest ways to improve it?
Brilliant to see the myths put to bed. Of course you are up against a series of very large multi national thieves - sorry - companies. The ability of these thie.. companies to slip a few quid into the back pocket of a popular light entertainment show & its producers has not slipped past me. Hence the uphill battle to persuade a "stuck in a rut" population that the future of electric has only just begun, and I like to think that they are only at the Wright Brothers stage so far!!
@hypertensao Top gear is entertainment, yes...But...It has a massive u.k and global audience. Any negative comments or ill researched points can potentially damage a brand or model, this is amplified even more so with E.V's and the emerging tech,people want to be reassured not have doubts creep in...The infrastructure is there, if you have electricity in your home then you have the power
@hypertensao I'm not forgetting that TG is an entertainment show, I am very well aware of this. However, when I had a Tesla Roadster parked at my house, which I'd just driven 173 miles on one charge BTW, an 11 year old lad visited the house with his mum, and he said "Oh yeah, that's the car that only goes 55 miles before it runs out, I saw it on Top Gear.' He, along with millions of viewers, took it as fact. I took him for a short drive in the car and he changed his mind immediately. 'Way cool.'
you want to know the biggest problem with the tesla or any other electric car? the recharge time is to inconvenient. the only people that can own a car like this are rich people that have the money to afford more then 1 car for themselves. why? because you cant go on a trip with the tesla. I'm not about to go on a road trip and sit for 3 hours to recharge my battery. petro cars are instant refills. you can never beat that until batteries somehow figure a way to recharge a
@lionheart153 How many people go on 300mile road trips, if ever? There only needs to be a few fast chargers at major service stations to satisfy that need, at minimal cost and small footprint
@j101saar "-3 times a year isn't really excessive, obviously you could have problems, alternatively rent a car. Tesla' model s will have an extended 300 mile range, which "may" be released early 2013.Lets say for e.g in 2013 most service stations have a couple of level3 chargers at the cost of £20k each. You do 250 miles,pull over for a coffee and wait for 15-30mins for a charge. Not perfect but there are many developments. A home brew daihatsu mira got 614miles on one charge recently
@eldictator1 I can't wait until the Model S comes out. Have you seen the latest fully charged? Robert says the I-Miev costs about £33k; over 2/3rds is the battery. If an ICE costs around £3k, and lives for 100,000 miles, the engine depreciation per mile is 3p. For an I-Miev, say the same lifespan, the depreciation is 23p per mile. Roberts I-Miev has depreciated £1,150 in 5k miles, compared to ICE £150. Scary.
@j101saar I'm not sure about that sticker price now. I think robert did that report when the price was quoted at 33k, then a month after the leaf came out with the 23k price I think I read a report on autoblog that they were reviewing the price..I think the depreciation will be similar and the batteries will vary with usage..interestingly toshiba did a deal with mitsu today SCiB batteries have a 20 year life, 6000plus charges and better tolerance towards extreme weather, i-miev update?
@lionheart153 There are already batteries which can be charged in 15 minutes to 80% capacity. Also the next car from Tesla will have a changeable battery pack - which you could exchange for a charged one in under 5 minutes. (Okay, the infrastructure needs to grow then...) But for 90% of the trips, you won't need it as you will be mostly far below the 200 miles mark.
@lionheart153 3 words back. HEAD IN SAND. It's great you don't want to change those old, noisy, smelly, inefficient, steam age fossil burning habits. I'm happy, carry on burning the damn stuff, carry on filling up your little tank in a few minutes, fine with me. Ignore the mass of innovation under your nose, cling on to your 'basic human right' of making absurd road trips in cars which waste 75% of the non renewable energy you so easily fill them with. Until it runs out. Excellent attitude.
Can you have some place where the claims, or research you presented in the video, have links to research that back up these claims etc? I have been arguing wit hsome labmates, and I would like a link(besides this video) to refute the inefficiency of the ICE versus using battery powered from a similar amount in gas.
Robert - how many cycles do the batteries last? If you look at the replacement battery cost, and divide it by the number of cycles, you should get a per charge cost. If the battery pack costs, say £12k and does 400 cycles, then it is costing you about £30 a charge, for 200 miles or so range (Tesla). That's about the same as I pay to do the same mileage. So the true cost of a charge is higher than you make out? (thanks to xjet for commenting on this).
@j101saar Your using a battery cost of todays motors and todays tech. Assuming that like an I.c.e cars engine, if it failed or needed replacing you would replace it like for like, same performance. I don't see that in ten years (estimated average life span of todays batteries) the same battery being used
@j101saar A fascinating argument. Battery management systems, (the biggest box in an electric car after the batteries) make the 400 charge argument somewhat mute. I don't think anyone knows yet how many cycles they can take, haven't been electric cars with Li-Ion batteries around for long enough. I've driven an electric vehicle with 80,000 miles on clock, same batt pack, many more than 400 charges, still works a treat
As was revealed in the movie Who Killed the Electric Car?, General Motors crushed all their EV1s made in the late 1990s and early 2000s. What the movie did not emphasize, the movement that later became known as PlugInAmerica managed to save about 1000 vehicles from other manufactures, including the Toyota RAV4 EV (produced from 1997 to 2003). They drive these cars to this day with original battery packs and claim they run just as good as when they were new. and that's 10 years old technology.
@j101saar Also, just to say, I greatly admire xjet and have met and worked with him on Scrapheap a few years back. However we very much disagree about electric vehicles, it seems he is convinced they are part of an international conspiracy to scam people and governments out of money, I'm not convinced of that, I drive an electric vehicle every day and the advantages are huge.
@fullychargedshow I don't agree with all of what xjet says either. However Tesla Roadster batteries have a life span of 7 years/100,000 miles. That works out at 500 cycles (200 mile range). So cost will be £24 for 200 miles + electricity = £29. A 50mpg car could do that for about £20. However Teslas costs £100k, your i-Miev is £32k (80 mile range) but you could get a 50mpg car for much less?
@j101saar The batteries don't just stop working after 7 years/100K miles, they just have reduced capacity. If you can live with 100 miles of range you may get many more years out of them. Also, using the overall costs of the Tesla to show that EV's are expensive makes about as much sense as using the overall costs of a Ferrari to show ICE cars are expensive. The i-Miev will be getting cheaper, and the Leaf with 100 mile range should be even less.
@JRP3 OK lets take the Leaf. Maybe the battery is good for 10 years, 100,000 miles - 1,000 cycles (100 mile range). The battery costs £10k - so £10 per recharge. Maybe £2 electric - so £24 for 200 miles. Still more expensive than a 50mpg car. Also you are paying £28k for a leaf (after the public have helped pay towards it) - a full £18k more than a basic spec Ford Fiesta achieving 51 mpg. VFM??
@j101saar You could also purchase a used Fiesta for even less, so? There's always a cheaper way to do something if you try hard enough. Certainly you'll be paying a premium to drive the latest technology, no way around that. The first 50inch plasma TV I saw was $10,000. Yes it makes more financial sense right now to buy the cheapest small ICE you can find, yet most people don't do that. I just thought it odd you'd use an expensive sports car to show that EV's aren't affordable.
@JRP3 I chose the Ford Fiesta as it is currently the most popular car in the UK - so a lot of people do buy one. I chose the Tesla because that is IMO an example of an excellent EV - unrivaled in desirability, range, performance; exactly what all manufacturers should be aspiring to. And even if you pick the Leaf, it still doesn't look affordable. Like you say, people will have to decide if the premium is worth it.
@j101saar Someone looking at a Fiesta isn't going to start looking at a Leaf any more than they are likely to suddenly look at any car costing that much more than the Fiesta. I figure most Leaf buyers are looking at $20K+ cars and need to decide if the $6K premium, (US pricing), is worth it. People have to buy in their price range no matter what. At least anyone with a bit of sense.
@JRP3 The Leaf is a similar size to a Fiesta, and is basically an electric Micra equivalent. But fine, the competition: a top of the range Toyota Prius for the same money. Or an Audi A3 1.6 TDI. Or a Renault Megane Coupe 1.5dCi. All do over 60mpg. I think GM has the right idea - Range Extended EV to start with (Volt over in the US, Ampera over here), then 100% EV when the battery tech gets there.
@j101saar Except the Volt is more expensive of course, it has to be since it has two separate systems, and the payback will be even longer since the electric only range is less. The Volt is fine, if you need the range. Truth is a lot of people don't. The battery tech is here, and Nissan is getting a head start working with it, while almost everyone else is playing it safe.
@JRP3 The Ampera will cost between £25 and £30k - same ball park as I-Miev and Leaf in the UK so it is not more expensive. It does 170mpg: more efficient than hybrids or petrol cars. 0-60 is 8 secs, battery range of 40 miles. It makes the most of the existing infrastructure and combats range anxiety. The Leaf and I-Miev are city cars, the Ampera can go anywhere an ICE can. Better VFM? I think so for now.
@j101saar 100 mile range and highway capable is not the definition of a city car by any means. Certainly the Leaf isn't for everyone, but there are literally millions of people for whom it would be perfect.
@JRP3 see h t t p green dot autoblog dot com 2010 06 14 nissan pegs leaf range between 47 and 138 miles individual resu The range is clearly not suitable for motorways in the UK where the cruising speed is 70mph - you would see 47 miles or less on one charge at these speeds. 100 miles is the LA4 cycle - e.g. inner city driving. With air con on, or lights and heating the range will be very limited.
@j101saar Yes I've seen that. From that article: "At 55 mph on the highway in 95 degree temps and A/C on, expect range to be 70 miles." That is not a city car. Of course under different conditions you'll have different ranges, but 70+ miles of range in most normal conditions is plenty for a lot of people. Especially as a second car in a two car family, which is not your typical city dweller. My 35-50 mile range is fine for 99% of my needs, I use my ICE car when I need more range.
@eldictator1 I'm sure the car can do 70mph. But what does driving at 70mph do to the range? I've been looking at videos of the Leaf and they all show people driving around at slow, inner city speeds on very small tracks. Is this because Nissan do not want drivers to see the battery rapidly disappear when it is driven at higher speeds? (As happened to Fifth Gear when testing the I-Miev)
@JRP3 You only satisfy millions of people, that isn't good enough for some. I mean, the ipad is useless without flash or various other slots, lack of features, but yet people still have a demand for innovative,luxury,cool items
@j101saar Take that leaf and put it in central london. Zero congestion charge, zero tax... saving of around £2k, plus the reduced fuel costs.. so thats about £19,000 for a fully loaded 4 door family car with 5 seats the size of a seat leon for example which goes for 18K for the 1.6tdi with less features. The public help pay towards the petrol car too, around 8 billion in air pollution illness and treatment and add another billion or two in oil subsidies and foreign oil wars
@eldictator1 I agree - the Leaf could be used as a city car. I wonder where the precious metals used in making the battery come from? Mostly South American countries & China: with questionable stability, human rights & environmental protection. And who is going to oversee battery disposal? The UN complains about laptop batteries already. Let's be reasonable - EVs aren't a silver bullet.
@j101saar I agree that the prius Nimh battery uses rare metals mostly obtained from open cast mines, and the batteries aren't exactly perfect. Lithium however under current laws can actually be sent to the local dump/tip. Your not even allowed to do that with AA batteries nowadays. Apparently zero motocycles gets an 85%recycle rate the rest plastic. Lithium salt flat mining is better than most, but yes we do have to look at the source of all materials and potential water usage and pollution
@j101saar con..So yes in the world we live in, our conspicuous consumerist society we have an impact with everything we use. The computers you use now, the sending of our old computers to dumps in africa for children to sort, the bauxite from open cast mines to make our can of coke, the green beans for your sunday roast flown in from kenya...Cars by their nature will never be green...They aren't the silver bullet but can reduceC02 levels and decrease city air pollution and noise pollution..
@fullychargedshow Hi Robert.. no, I don't think it's part of a conspiracy -- that's my other video (You can't run your car on water). All I'm saying is that *right now* the promise of EVs exceeds the industry's ability to deliver. There are so many tiny "gotchas" that currently stop EVs from replacing "fossilers" and while I admire EV proponents like yourself, there has to be someone bring a little balance into the discussion (ie: me :-) Watch for my new video this week
@fullychargedshow I really do wonder sometimes about some of these conspiracy theories. I'm a full on petrol head but I'm also a bit of a techy nerd. If anything there are conspiracies holding back electric technology. You don't have to look far to see big oils involvement....
Hi Robert, Thanks for clarifying the truth about 'a popular light entertainment program' and their misinformation......as the 'Tesla Representative' on the day it was outstandingly frustrating on the filming days and since those days I have found myself CONSTANTLY having to tell the truth to the easily misled. Of course, they don't want to listen but it was good that you did. Again, your feature is very useful and I think i'll have the link printed on my business card :-)
@lotus240r I take it you were there with Don Cochrane. It must have been utterly maddening. I just wanted to at least make a token gesture at setting the record straight, and I utterly loved driving the Tesla. Oh yes, another thing I should have put in, did 172 miles on one charge, with plenty left over.
Watched the Fifth Gear review of the iMiev a few days ago and was even more disappointed with it than Top Gear's Tesla review. They set out to do something that the car was never designed for, long distance touring at high speed, and then proceeded to slag it off for running out of power and taking 6 hours to charge. No mention of fast charging was made. Shame on Tiff and Johnny. The only sane part if the segment were made by Rob but they cut that to pieces.
If you run out of petrol you get a friend to bring you a can of it. For electric cars to work they need some kind of backup for that in mind, like a small generator that can limp the car to a charging station. We also need the more affordable ones to look less like spaz chariots. It would also be a good idea to discuss the pollution caused by making the batteries as nickel mining is pretty damn polluting.
I am a petrolhead, what I conform to is chosen by me. By petrolhead one would assume fossel fuel is my only choice. But, after watching this, I would consider moving to be a ecohead. This is, unbias and extremely informative. I will be following this closely, with anticipation, its refreshing to see such an honest, transparent approach to journalism. Kudos.
You forgot to mention. Tesla roadster does not come with Power Steering, Radio or CD (i think not sure of this), No ABS, No Cruise Control, No Optional GPS. Still a good idea though.
FreePizza007 1 week ago
Awesome show as always, keep up the good work! Don't mind the less intelligent haters, they just don't know better.
TheSaltyAdmiral 3 weeks ago
take that globalists
GovnaBuckingham 1 month ago
people who whine about electric cars should be castrated without sedative
Aleque 5 months ago
spinycrayfish got pwned.
bored1980 5 months ago
I thought running out of fuel in a petrol car meant a huge maintainence bill to clean the engine of all the shit that gets sucked up from the bottom of the tank.... Making running out of fuel in a petrol car way more stupid and embarassing I'd say. If I'm correct (because this is just what I've been told) then this might be worth mentioning in the show.
frostyuk2007 7 months ago
@frostyuk2007
no, you just refil it, no shit gets sucked out the bottom of the tank, thats what the fuel filter is for.
on old diesels if you ran out you needed to crack the injectors off and reprime the pump, which is a 10 minute job if you know what you're doing. A confusing few hours waiting for recovery if not.
zogworth 6 months ago
@zogworth So the fuel filter doesnt ever get clogged or even the injectors and after than the fuel pressure regulator diaphragms gives out on top of that the sparkies need to be changed every 5000km ? And i havent even got to the engine lubrication system! Fucking dingbat. the ICE has more parts that would likely fail than an EV so get that in your stupid little brain.
lcw1980 6 months ago
@lcw1980 - whilst true about the less moving parts running out of energy in a EV is more of a pain. This was the only bit of the video that was a let down for me "if you run out of fuel, if you are in the middle of nowhere, if you are 20 miles away from a petrol station". Just admit that its more of a pain in an EV. If you are going to produce a balanced review then do it - or point to extended range electric cars that have a backup motor, as i believe these will catch on first.
paulski1966 2 months ago
@lcw1980 I am so confused. I mentioned none of these things. I was commenting on the process for refuelling a car. But you pull a straw man argument out of thin air to insult me, I think it is you sir that is the ding bat.
zogworth 2 months ago
we all know what show he was talking about yes?
also, batteries are going to have to be replaced at different stages, and they cost a fortune so im afraid its diesel all the way for me.
cardoctor2k9 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I don't know who did the research for this episode but it's full of nonsense. The well to wheel "information" seems to suggest a coal powered car produces less than 1/10 the emissions of petrol. However the 40g claimed for coal is out by a factor of about 4, and the claim that 3/4 of the emission from petrol come before the engine is upside down, 3/4 comes from burning the fuel. Correct there two mistakes and the only real advantage is the ability to switch to green electricity.
spinycrayfish 7 months ago
@spinycrayfish The figures I quoted in this episode came from the Royal Academy of Engineering report of 2008, there have been many other reports which come up with many different figures. Interestingly the most commonly quoted reports are from organisations directly funded by oil corporations. It is now widely accepted that to refine one gallon of gasoline requires 9 kWh of electricity, some argue this is 'total energy cost' but others dispute this. The figures are not in any way 'nonsense.'
fullychargedshow 7 months ago 25
@fullychargedshow
You're welcome to your opinion, but it appears to me that you are selectively quoting a report that confirms your beliefs and aids your views. I'm all for electric cars, but If you accept any of the figures from various sources that contradict yours (which appear rose tinted on both sides of the equation by a massive margin), then they require an infrastructure company like Better Place to ensure 100% renewables to make them environmentally viable on a significant scale.
spinycrayfish 7 months ago
@fullychargedshow I don't want to knock the car (as I do believe the future will involve some kind of vehicle like this) but what about all the mining and processing of metals required for batteries? Surely the power required negates the argument about mining, refining and transporting oil.
ToneSpectra 5 months ago
@ToneSpectra According to a LowCVP (UK) study, manufacturing an electric car produces 8.8 tons of CO2, while gasoline car "only" 5.6 tons. The battery manufacturing accounts to 43% of the emissions of an electric car. So about 3.7 tons per car. Sounds much? Now take a look at the tail-pipe emissions of a gas car for 150 000km. That's more than 22 tons. And that's even before the fact that we SHOULD take the emissions from oil production into account (which would at least triple this figure).
lupzter78 5 months ago
@ToneSpectra A lot of th e concerns around mining for metals for the batteries and the environmental impact it has relates to nickel based batteries. Most electric cars are now using lithium batteries which are much kinder to the environment.
paulski1966 2 months ago
Comment removed
ToneSpectra 5 months ago
@fullychargedshow (Also, aren't fossil-fuel powered machines and vehicles required to do the job of mining, processing and transporting these battery materials?)
ToneSpectra 5 months ago
Much as I look forward to the widespread availability of electric cars and would kill to own a Tesla, there is a relevant point about running out of charge - in a liquid fuel auto, it's much easier to get a refill. Apart from that, it's electric all the way.
R4t10n4L 8 months ago
@R4t10n4L That will change, and honestly... I'm willing to bet you can find an electrical outlet in the middle of nowhere easier than you can find a gas station... Provided that people who own said electrical outlet would be nice enough to let you plug in for a while. Theoretically at some point every light pole that exists could be fitted with a car charge port.
girochin007 7 months ago
When will the Australian govt start enabling the roll out of the grid for electric vehicles? It's high time! Great video!
MrJimijazz149 8 months ago
Very nicely done! Excellent video. I'm glad to hear the comparison between well to wheel comparison so succinctly made.
robhoneycutt 9 months ago
the advantage of a electric car is you charge it cheap at night and you have a full battery in the morning, while a petrol car doesnt have that luxury, anyway loved the episode
realcomputergenius 9 months ago
Well, I would rather drive my 18mpg WRX than any electric car in the world. However, I am a car enthusiast, and have a burning hate for other methods of powering cars. Love the sounds of a gas car, and nothing beats working on an engine. You all can have your fun in fuel efficient slow box's, but I will always choose gas. If gas runs out. I will walk.
Mogul20478 9 months ago
@Mogul20478 Back at the turn of the 20th century there were a number of people that said exactly the same thing about their horse.
robhoneycutt 9 months ago
Could you do a comparison of environmental foot print of a gas car from raw materials to end of disposal verses an electric car?
How does the production and disposal of the battery effect the "green" of the car?
Bootstrap360 9 months ago
I saw the episode of top gear he's referring to
lschlachter1 9 months ago
one of the best videos of this subject. well done sir, please continue.
FrancekPirosrancek 10 months ago
the sound of the engine at the end was soooo badass!!!
spam1712 10 months ago
Great video. I once met a guy with a Tesla, it was one of the coolest thing I've seen. When I get rich I'll get one.
drewpybeitzel 11 months ago
Many thanks fullychargedshow (and Robert) for this.
I am thinking about getting a Tesla Roadster and found this to be a good balanced view compared to other shows. This will probably be enough to convince me to go for it. We shouldn't be surprised that there are vested intrerests and baised views out there. Many many people rely on the current status quo and are not jumping with joy at the prospect of loosing their job or business, but, the writing is on the wall.
Again, thanks. Mark
excellentdudesltd 11 months ago
great videos! this one is my favorite. just re-posted on fb. love your work.
sockosockosocko 1 year ago
Your videos are a success in Portuguese Nissan Leaf forum.
I shared there. ;) Continue the good work.
I have 2 seminars about electric vehicles, but they are in Portuguese, when I have some time I will put English legends. The seminars are excellent.
sealsasa 1 year ago
brilliant bobby. : )
rainbowsalads 1 year ago
Wow! Its like Top Gear but for people with functioning brains!!
JRoque250 1 year ago 7
Last time I heard your voice was on a rerun of Scrapheap Challenge! (aka Junkyard Wars over here which kinda ruined it as always) Great to see you in front of a camera again, and for such a great series too!
Smidge204 1 year ago 2
I thought that although they did poke fun at the Tesla, that was to highlight its obsolescence in comparison to fuel cell cars which are looking rather more exciting (in a petrolhead's eyes). One thing that does concern me is the battery replacement, and also the cost of just a normal car. There is no way in hell I could afford a Tesla... What about a decent average car such as a Mondeo equivalent?
andygriff1987 1 year ago
@andygriff1987 Can I suggest you look at another ep of Fully Charged featuring the Honda FCX Clarity, a hydrogen Fuel Cell car. Current cost over $2 million, so the silly expensive battery electric verses the cheap, sensible fuel cell is a bit of a myth. It's possible your grandchildren may be able to drive hydrogen cars, but it's a minimum of 50 years away and we kind of need an alternative about now. Also check the Nissan Leaf review, quarter the cost of a Tesla and available now.
fullychargedshow 1 year ago 16
@fullychargedshow Didn't realise there was another episode! Thanks for the concise and prompt reply :)
andygriff1987 1 year ago
Comment removed
andygriff1987 1 year ago
@andygriff1987 Another issue with FCVs is that while everyone complains that EVs will need to have the batteries replaced after X (usually 10) years (false!) but nobody discusses the fact that the fuel cell units need to re-manufactured after so many hours of operation - usually 6-8 years worth of driving based on average habits. That's easily several grand right there. Meanwhile, Li batteries are getting cheaper almost by the day, projected by some to drop 30% in price in the next year.
Smidge204 1 year ago
Robert, well done and intellectually truthful. If viewers/readers are EAGER for additional truth about electric cars watch Jack Rickard's videos! web.me.com/mjrickard/ & on youtube... "1 A Convenient Response to an Inconvenient Truth - EV"
wingpilot87 1 year ago
Pretty good overall, but I'm skeptical about his well-to-wheel argument. If it raises CO2/km from ~140 to ~450, it means that roughly 2/3 of the energy that comes out of the well is used in pumping, refining, and transporting. I know these take a lot of energy...but come on...they don't take MOST of it. The EROI on gasoline is about 5:1. That would raise CO2/km from 140 to about 170.
blurglide 1 year ago
@blurglide If you are EAGER for additional truth about electric cars watch Jack Rickard's videos! web.me.com/mjrickard/ & on youtube... "1 A Convenient Response to an Inconvenient Truth - EV"
wingpilot87 1 year ago
Comment removed
bonds911 1 year ago
9 people work for the oil industry or are Saudi Arabian.
deadmantyping2 1 year ago
@deadmantyping2 If viewers/readers are EAGER for additional truth about electric cars watch Jack Rickard's videos! web.me.com/mjrickard/ & on youtube... "1 A Convenient Response to an Inconvenient Truth - EV"
wingpilot87 1 year ago
One of Roberts best videos.
deadmantyping2 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Speaking of propaganda, I wonder how much Tesla pays you...
Nealosaurus 1 year ago
@Nealosaurus I am very happy to inform you that Tesla pays me nothing, they never have and they never would. They loaned me the car for 4 days, so if that counts as corrupt bribery then I am guilty. I don't need Tesla to pay me anything for me to admire what they have done, and for me to hold the strident opinions I do about the feasibility, superiority and economic sense of ditching internal combustion in favour of electric propulsion.
fullychargedshow 1 year ago 44
@fullychargedshow Well then I should apologise. To be honest I've followed your videos for some time and you have always seemed very pro-Tesla. I incorrectly assumed that you must have been getting some sort of funding from them. Now I understand better that you are just generally a fan of both their engineering and what they have been able to accomplish, both of which are, I think, very laudable. As a "car person" I do quite enjoy your productions and analysis. I apologise for my comment!
Nealosaurus 1 year ago 3
@fullychargedshow Robert, well done and intellectually truthful. If viewers/readers are EAGER for additional truth about electric cars watch Jack Rickard's videos! web.me.com/mjrickard/ & on youtube... "1 A Convenient Response to an Inconvenient Truth - EV"
wingpilot87 1 year ago
Excellent, it explains the false myths about electric cars.
Fantastic.
sealsasa 1 year ago
@Nealosaurus
Your videos are excellent, I shared all in 3 portuguese forums: (espiritohonda com /novaenergia net / hibridosclube com
Congratulations.
sealsasa 1 year ago
Sorry, I meant the videos of fullychargedshow ;)
sealsasa 1 year ago
I don't believe some of the conspiracy theories banded around about electric cars and their history, but I do believe there are organisations and news sources who are anti e.v for whatever reason. There seem's to be a new E.V hurdle to jump every few months. This months drama is china's stubborness over Metal exports which is always linked to E.V's.
eldictator1 1 year ago
Maybe all of those cars you mentioned such as the turbo and f40 won't be as fast to 60 because of the tesla's instantaneous torque,but they will absolutely decimate it after that. And all these so called races favored the electric car, starting from a standstill. Put the tesla against comparatively priced car from a 60 roll and see what happens.
SondeBeeches 1 year ago 2
Comment removed
bonds911 1 year ago
@bonds911 Okay? Lmao, and who might you be? Learn some grammar and proper sentence structure, I can't understand you.
SondeBeeches 1 year ago 2
Good show thanks, subbed :)
specallez 1 year ago
Very good show with some wonderful FACTS. It's funny when you look at the people telling lies about electric cars when it is clearly the way forward, it just makes the mind boggle. Keep up the good work, hopefully we will all soon be driving around in clean cars. Preferably a Tesla, or that Citroën’s Survolt. Both beautiful and fun cars. Take that a certain popular light entertainment show!
SmokeyStubbs 1 year ago
Very informative video, thanks.
One day.. one day...
rail0r 1 year ago
When a gasoline powered car runs out of fuel (which only happens because of bad planning, btw), someone walks up to it carrying a 10lb can of liquid, pours it in the tank and the car is instantly available, at full power for a limited range. That's the kind of convenience EV's have to compete with.
aqueousone 1 year ago
@aqueousone I'm not saying the EV option is any easier, but how long does it take for that someone to appear beside the car and refuel it? If you happen to run out of petrol beside a filling station, you're in luck. If you run out many miles from nowhere, your only hope is a friendly passerby or a call to a roadside recovery service.
neuro 1 year ago
@aqueousone I can charge an electric car from my garage, and generate my own energy, that is a counter to the convenient petrol station arguement
eldictator1 1 year ago
Comment removed
eldictator1 1 year ago
Building electro magnets under our roads might also be a good idea, charging as you drive. They could turn on when a car moves over them as when you move a coil built into the car over a magnet a charge is induced (Victorian science, see Maxwell). Obviously, not enough to give perpetual motion but I bet it would increase range significantly and it could be done in motorway resurfacing or new builds for the longer journeys.
jacksawild 1 year ago
The truth about electric cars. Caharging past the rhetoric. I love it!
jmtoriel 1 year ago
very nice show no bullshit all true facts maybe the thing when those idiots made the car suppostly run out of battery were paid by some big oil company to block the truth about this car the truth that is going to compete head to head with big oil companies plus it can be charged with sun power or wind power
bonds911 1 year ago 20
@bonds911 No, top gear faked the Tesla running out of power because Jeremy Clarkson thinks environmentalists are idiots and doesn't believe in global warming. He doesn't need to be payed to lie about electric cars.
spacehelmetforacow 1 year ago
@bonds911 Paid by some big oil company? Lol conspiracy theorists.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@bonds911
conclusions, you have jumped to a great many without engaging brain.
zogworth 6 months ago
Well all i saw was Mr. Power screaming give me mooooooore powaaaaaaa
Amidamaru159 1 year ago
Great show! I really liked the pilot and I'm sure this will become a big show because so many people are rooting for EV cars, and a better way to take care of our planet.
mikebarneynissan 1 year ago
I subscribed, once again ... :p
ectoplasma2 1 year ago
Haven't read the comments here for a while, really wonderful points being made by people and it clearly shows that there is a huge amount of interest in the subject. Thanks for watching and getting fired up.
fullychargedshow 1 year ago 4
@fullychargedshow Surely, Robert, we are not "fired" up, but "charged" up! No burning going on here!
Keeper1st 1 year ago
@fullychargedshow - thanks for a fun and fact-packed episode.
Great to shovel at the coal-heads.
I want one!
LucyJunior1 1 year ago
@fullychargedshow - thanks for a fun and fact-packed episode.
Great to shovel at the coal-heads.
I want one!
LucyJunior1 1 year ago
tell me, do you have any idea how many fuel there is wasted when building a wind-turbine, solar-panels or nuclear central and keep it running? the waste of nuclear, you get to dump it somewhere. Solar panels not even producing above 15% of efficiency. way too expensive. lets not forget about that big battery in the car, what to do with it when it dies? besides 2 minutes in the petrol station or 5 hours charging... I love hybrid but electrical is still too young to market itself properly.
darupz 1 year ago
@darupz Two points: Unlike a petrol car, you almost never have to stop to refuel an electric car; you have a "full tank" every time you leave home. Presumably your car is parked for more than five hours per day...? Point two: Something like 90 to 95 percent of the Tesla battery can be melted down and used to build new batteries. They have an article on it with photos explaining the recycling process in great detail.
Keeper1st 1 year ago
@Keeper1st Fact is that you need the infrastructure to refuel an electric car. when i park it around the corner i don't get that possibility. Not all people have a garage to put their car in. that's one thing you need to work on to get it selling. No offense but it's a silly thing having to plug in your car. A system like swapping a fuel cell at a station would be nice. You pop yours out, pop the charged one back in and you're on the road again. Dreams, but I hope they ever come true.
darupz 1 year ago
@darupz Yeah, it isn't possible for someone without a garage at the moment, alas. The battery-swap idea is something Tesla has worked on with their Model S. It is designed with the battery pack on the bottom, which can be swapped out in five minutes. Now for the infrastructure...
Keeper1st 1 year ago
@Keeper1st Just make that the automotive industry comes quickly to a point where there is a battery standard for all cars. E.g: Nissan battery brakes down, drive into Peugeot garage, buy new battery, put it in. Come home, someone needs to go get something but battery needs to be charged. Gets mine out, put in in the Ford. I charge the Ford battery up. I put the battery in the Nissan and go to the gym.
darupz 1 year ago
It takes a few minutes to fill a gasoline/diesel car, and hours to fill a electric one. And what about that toxic nickel in the batteries?
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@FrontalTraction How often do you have to go out of your way, stop on the way to or from work, to refuel a gasoline car? You never have to do that with electric, since it's refueled at home. Unless you're going on a really long trip, "stopping for gas" is a thing of the past. When the batteries are spent, the nickel is used to make new batteries. What about all that toxic motor oil? It can't be turned into new motor oil -- only burned for fuel.
Keeper1st 1 year ago
@Keeper1st Making the battery involves environmentally unfriendly processes.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@FrontalTraction Oh, unlike lead-acid batteries or motor oil then. Fact is that anything we create will have a negative impact on the environment (this is why the buzz term is "reduce the carbon footprint" -- not "eliminate" it). What matters most is to make the least impact, and there is no question that electric cars (through their usage more than their creation) make a far smaller impact.
Keeper1st 1 year ago
@Keeper1st So burning coal to produce electricity is clean? Right now, if you live in the U.S. Chances are your electricity comes from fossil fuel, so unless you live in a place where electricity comes from hydro, wind, solar, or another renewable resource, your "clean" electric car is dirty.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@FrontalTraction That is true. It's also true that your gasoline-powered car is more than 10 times "dirtier". So.... your point is what, exactly?
Keeper1st 1 year ago
@Keeper1st My point is that Electric cars are good for urban areas and short trops, but Gas is more versatile and practical due to the range and fast refuel time. For example, you can't do a road trip in an electric car due to range.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@FrontalTraction How is THAT your point of making the misleading claim that electric cars are "dirty"? Truth is, you've been backed into a corner time and time again. Now you've admitted that electric cars are indeed at least "good". Infrastructure is still needed for the occasional 200+ mile trip, true. People bought celphones when they were only of use in big cities. Likewise, people will buy electric cars for city use, provided that other people stop spreading misinformation about them.
Keeper1st 1 year ago
@Keeper1st Well, now that you've informed me that I've been misnformed by other people that electric cars are dirty. Thank you.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@Keeper1st And don't assume I've been backed into a corner time and time again, because you don't know and it's also not true.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
no bullshiittt here all true facts
bonds911 1 year ago
god i love this show
bonds911 1 year ago
I think I'll stick with Top Gear.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@FrontalTraction i think ill sick up with top gear ohh im a big crying littl baby why dont you stick your finger and get the fuck out here then if you dont like it
bonds911 1 year ago
@bonds911 I was just saying I prefer Top gear over this show, calm down. No need to be angry.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@FrontalTraction yeah sorry but just saying you know top gear is about fast cars not electrics if you searched electric cars you knew you wasnt gonna find top gear right its cool if you go to their video and say top gear is the best but why you gotta put same thing on videos that try their best at what their do dont support dont bother at least werevre have a good one
bonds911 1 year ago
@bonds911 Ok, you too.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
@FrontalTraction The daily show is better than fox news...Apples and oranges
One's a factual show and the other comedy entertainment, I'lllet you work out which is which in each circumstance
eldictator1 1 year ago
@eldictator1 I don't watch either show, so that is irrelevant.
FrontalTraction 1 year ago
I've driven a battery electric vehicle for the last 11 years. I started with an EV-1 and then a RAV4-EV. They're wonderful cars, and have met 95% of my daily driving needs. As a commuter car, an EV is imminently practical today. On the rare occasion that I drive my Prius, it's such a disappointment to have to visit a gas station. Ugh.
Thanks also for taking on Top Gear's fraudulent treatment of the Tesla. Jerks.
mjkobb 1 year ago
@mjkobb It wasn't fraudulent, don't you know everyone has their own personal petrol pump at home, and no one ever runs out of fuel in an I.C car, it has never happened ever! Besides it's not as if we can implement quick chargers for $20,000 that charge to 80% from 15-30 minutes and there is no way JFE engineering in japan have made a 3 minute 50% quick charger, no way at all
eldictator1 1 year ago
Great series of video's, very informative when sometimes a little biased as well.
It really confirmed my decision to reserve a Tesla Model S.
Can't wait for the next episode.
advandermeer 1 year ago
Loved this i hope we will see more of this
Wolfgang2010 1 year ago
Wow, Kryten's still excited by machines. Hopefully he doesn't get a double polaroid :)
skooterjoe 1 year ago
Just you wait until lithium is old hat and the boffins put silver in the batteries.
Silver polymer batteries will deliver twice the energy as the currently available batteries.
Until that happens it may be worth getting your hands on some silver bullion as it's relatively cheap right now. What do you think will happen to the price? ;)
TheHolySpirit 1 year ago
top gear is way better. top gear didnt say that it takes 6 weeks. they said 16 hours. this guy is ignorant. he should stop his show now.
DrZorenstein 1 year ago
@DrZorenstein Well, I have to disagree with you obviously. I know they said 16 hours, I was doing this thing called 'exaggeration for effect,' something the TG guys have perfected. I am in no way trying to compete with Top Gear, I am merely trying to gently point to an alternative view. They did lie about the car and they did get caught doing it. Those are simple facts.
bobbyllew 1 year ago
@DrZorenstein You're quoting the wrong part of the show. It was 16 hours to charge from a normal 13 amp socket. Jeremy actually said that if you charged it from a "little windmill" it would take 600 hours or 25 days. This is what Robert was referring to (3 weeks not 6).
And you say, "top gear is way better". Well, in terms of budget and manpower involved I would have to say that Robert's show is WAY better.
Instead of insisting he "stops his show now" why not suggest ways to improve it?
TheHolySpirit 1 year ago
An excellent car and superb comments about top gears blind, biased propaganda!
kaieteurdevon 1 year ago
Brilliant to see the myths put to bed. Of course you are up against a series of very large multi national thieves - sorry - companies. The ability of these thie.. companies to slip a few quid into the back pocket of a popular light entertainment show & its producers has not slipped past me. Hence the uphill battle to persuade a "stuck in a rut" population that the future of electric has only just begun, and I like to think that they are only at the Wright Brothers stage so far!!
Joe90V 1 year ago
you're forgetting that Top Gear is an entertainment show. not a BBC documentary in the search for the absolute truth.
However there are still no infrastructures for the average person to charge their automobiles
hypertensao 1 year ago
@hypertensao Top gear is entertainment, yes...But...It has a massive u.k and global audience. Any negative comments or ill researched points can potentially damage a brand or model, this is amplified even more so with E.V's and the emerging tech,people want to be reassured not have doubts creep in...The infrastructure is there, if you have electricity in your home then you have the power
eldictator1 1 year ago
@hypertensao I'm not forgetting that TG is an entertainment show, I am very well aware of this. However, when I had a Tesla Roadster parked at my house, which I'd just driven 173 miles on one charge BTW, an 11 year old lad visited the house with his mum, and he said "Oh yeah, that's the car that only goes 55 miles before it runs out, I saw it on Top Gear.' He, along with millions of viewers, took it as fact. I took him for a short drive in the car and he changed his mind immediately. 'Way cool.'
bobbyllew 1 year ago
I don't know why but I just got a visual in my head of Kryten charging an electric car using his groin attachment lol.
NeonChimpAustralia 1 year ago 13
3 words. FULL OF SHIT
you want to know the biggest problem with the tesla or any other electric car? the recharge time is to inconvenient. the only people that can own a car like this are rich people that have the money to afford more then 1 car for themselves. why? because you cant go on a trip with the tesla. I'm not about to go on a road trip and sit for 3 hours to recharge my battery. petro cars are instant refills. you can never beat that until batteries somehow figure a way to recharge a
lionheart153 1 year ago
battery in less then a minute. so give it up. if anything hydro is the next generation of cars.
lionheart153 1 year ago
@lionheart153 Hydro, too expensive and still 20 years away
eldictator1 1 year ago
@lionheart153 Please look at my review of the £2.5 million Honda Clarity, hydrogen is the answer, but not in our lifetimes
bobbyllew 1 year ago
@lionheart153 How many people go on 300mile road trips, if ever? There only needs to be a few fast chargers at major service stations to satisfy that need, at minimal cost and small footprint
eldictator1 1 year ago
@eldictator1 I go on a 300 mile road trip 2-4 times a year.
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar "-3 times a year isn't really excessive, obviously you could have problems, alternatively rent a car. Tesla' model s will have an extended 300 mile range, which "may" be released early 2013.Lets say for e.g in 2013 most service stations have a couple of level3 chargers at the cost of £20k each. You do 250 miles,pull over for a coffee and wait for 15-30mins for a charge. Not perfect but there are many developments. A home brew daihatsu mira got 614miles on one charge recently
eldictator1 1 year ago
@eldictator1 I can't wait until the Model S comes out. Have you seen the latest fully charged? Robert says the I-Miev costs about £33k; over 2/3rds is the battery. If an ICE costs around £3k, and lives for 100,000 miles, the engine depreciation per mile is 3p. For an I-Miev, say the same lifespan, the depreciation is 23p per mile. Roberts I-Miev has depreciated £1,150 in 5k miles, compared to ICE £150. Scary.
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar I'm not sure about that sticker price now. I think robert did that report when the price was quoted at 33k, then a month after the leaf came out with the 23k price I think I read a report on autoblog that they were reviewing the price..I think the depreciation will be similar and the batteries will vary with usage..interestingly toshiba did a deal with mitsu today SCiB batteries have a 20 year life, 6000plus charges and better tolerance towards extreme weather, i-miev update?
eldictator1 1 year ago
@lionheart153 There are already batteries which can be charged in 15 minutes to 80% capacity. Also the next car from Tesla will have a changeable battery pack - which you could exchange for a charged one in under 5 minutes. (Okay, the infrastructure needs to grow then...) But for 90% of the trips, you won't need it as you will be mostly far below the 200 miles mark.
markusbirth 1 year ago
@lionheart153 3 words back. HEAD IN SAND. It's great you don't want to change those old, noisy, smelly, inefficient, steam age fossil burning habits. I'm happy, carry on burning the damn stuff, carry on filling up your little tank in a few minutes, fine with me. Ignore the mass of innovation under your nose, cling on to your 'basic human right' of making absurd road trips in cars which waste 75% of the non renewable energy you so easily fill them with. Until it runs out. Excellent attitude.
bobbyllew 1 year ago
Can you have some place where the claims, or research you presented in the video, have links to research that back up these claims etc? I have been arguing wit hsome labmates, and I would like a link(besides this video) to refute the inefficiency of the ICE versus using battery powered from a similar amount in gas.
kuryamtl 1 year ago
Robert - how many cycles do the batteries last? If you look at the replacement battery cost, and divide it by the number of cycles, you should get a per charge cost. If the battery pack costs, say £12k and does 400 cycles, then it is costing you about £30 a charge, for 200 miles or so range (Tesla). That's about the same as I pay to do the same mileage. So the true cost of a charge is higher than you make out? (thanks to xjet for commenting on this).
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar Your using a battery cost of todays motors and todays tech. Assuming that like an I.c.e cars engine, if it failed or needed replacing you would replace it like for like, same performance. I don't see that in ten years (estimated average life span of todays batteries) the same battery being used
eldictator1 1 year ago
@j101saar A fascinating argument. Battery management systems, (the biggest box in an electric car after the batteries) make the 400 charge argument somewhat mute. I don't think anyone knows yet how many cycles they can take, haven't been electric cars with Li-Ion batteries around for long enough. I've driven an electric vehicle with 80,000 miles on clock, same batt pack, many more than 400 charges, still works a treat
fullychargedshow 1 year ago 7
As was revealed in the movie Who Killed the Electric Car?, General Motors crushed all their EV1s made in the late 1990s and early 2000s. What the movie did not emphasize, the movement that later became known as PlugInAmerica managed to save about 1000 vehicles from other manufactures, including the Toyota RAV4 EV (produced from 1997 to 2003). They drive these cars to this day with original battery packs and claim they run just as good as when they were new. and that's 10 years old technology.
zlozlozlo 1 year ago
@j101saar Also, just to say, I greatly admire xjet and have met and worked with him on Scrapheap a few years back. However we very much disagree about electric vehicles, it seems he is convinced they are part of an international conspiracy to scam people and governments out of money, I'm not convinced of that, I drive an electric vehicle every day and the advantages are huge.
fullychargedshow 1 year ago 8
@fullychargedshow I don't agree with all of what xjet says either. However Tesla Roadster batteries have a life span of 7 years/100,000 miles. That works out at 500 cycles (200 mile range). So cost will be £24 for 200 miles + electricity = £29. A 50mpg car could do that for about £20. However Teslas costs £100k, your i-Miev is £32k (80 mile range) but you could get a 50mpg car for much less?
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar The batteries don't just stop working after 7 years/100K miles, they just have reduced capacity. If you can live with 100 miles of range you may get many more years out of them. Also, using the overall costs of the Tesla to show that EV's are expensive makes about as much sense as using the overall costs of a Ferrari to show ICE cars are expensive. The i-Miev will be getting cheaper, and the Leaf with 100 mile range should be even less.
JRP3 1 year ago
@JRP3 OK lets take the Leaf. Maybe the battery is good for 10 years, 100,000 miles - 1,000 cycles (100 mile range). The battery costs £10k - so £10 per recharge. Maybe £2 electric - so £24 for 200 miles. Still more expensive than a 50mpg car. Also you are paying £28k for a leaf (after the public have helped pay towards it) - a full £18k more than a basic spec Ford Fiesta achieving 51 mpg. VFM??
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar You could also purchase a used Fiesta for even less, so? There's always a cheaper way to do something if you try hard enough. Certainly you'll be paying a premium to drive the latest technology, no way around that. The first 50inch plasma TV I saw was $10,000. Yes it makes more financial sense right now to buy the cheapest small ICE you can find, yet most people don't do that. I just thought it odd you'd use an expensive sports car to show that EV's aren't affordable.
JRP3 1 year ago
@JRP3 I chose the Ford Fiesta as it is currently the most popular car in the UK - so a lot of people do buy one. I chose the Tesla because that is IMO an example of an excellent EV - unrivaled in desirability, range, performance; exactly what all manufacturers should be aspiring to. And even if you pick the Leaf, it still doesn't look affordable. Like you say, people will have to decide if the premium is worth it.
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar Someone looking at a Fiesta isn't going to start looking at a Leaf any more than they are likely to suddenly look at any car costing that much more than the Fiesta. I figure most Leaf buyers are looking at $20K+ cars and need to decide if the $6K premium, (US pricing), is worth it. People have to buy in their price range no matter what. At least anyone with a bit of sense.
JRP3 1 year ago
@JRP3 The Leaf is a similar size to a Fiesta, and is basically an electric Micra equivalent. But fine, the competition: a top of the range Toyota Prius for the same money. Or an Audi A3 1.6 TDI. Or a Renault Megane Coupe 1.5dCi. All do over 60mpg. I think GM has the right idea - Range Extended EV to start with (Volt over in the US, Ampera over here), then 100% EV when the battery tech gets there.
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar Except the Volt is more expensive of course, it has to be since it has two separate systems, and the payback will be even longer since the electric only range is less. The Volt is fine, if you need the range. Truth is a lot of people don't. The battery tech is here, and Nissan is getting a head start working with it, while almost everyone else is playing it safe.
JRP3 1 year ago
@JRP3 The Ampera will cost between £25 and £30k - same ball park as I-Miev and Leaf in the UK so it is not more expensive. It does 170mpg: more efficient than hybrids or petrol cars. 0-60 is 8 secs, battery range of 40 miles. It makes the most of the existing infrastructure and combats range anxiety. The Leaf and I-Miev are city cars, the Ampera can go anywhere an ICE can. Better VFM? I think so for now.
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar 100 mile range and highway capable is not the definition of a city car by any means. Certainly the Leaf isn't for everyone, but there are literally millions of people for whom it would be perfect.
JRP3 1 year ago
@JRP3 see h t t p green dot autoblog dot com 2010 06 14 nissan pegs leaf range between 47 and 138 miles individual resu The range is clearly not suitable for motorways in the UK where the cruising speed is 70mph - you would see 47 miles or less on one charge at these speeds. 100 miles is the LA4 cycle - e.g. inner city driving. With air con on, or lights and heating the range will be very limited.
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar Yes I've seen that. From that article: "At 55 mph on the highway in 95 degree temps and A/C on, expect range to be 70 miles." That is not a city car. Of course under different conditions you'll have different ranges, but 70+ miles of range in most normal conditions is plenty for a lot of people. Especially as a second car in a two car family, which is not your typical city dweller. My 35-50 mile range is fine for 99% of my needs, I use my ICE car when I need more range.
JRP3 1 year ago
@j101saar The speed limit is 70mph, if it isn't fast enough it can go in the slow lane
eldictator1 1 year ago
@eldictator1 I'm sure the car can do 70mph. But what does driving at 70mph do to the range? I've been looking at videos of the Leaf and they all show people driving around at slow, inner city speeds on very small tracks. Is this because Nissan do not want drivers to see the battery rapidly disappear when it is driven at higher speeds? (As happened to Fifth Gear when testing the I-Miev)
j101saar 1 year ago
@JRP3 You only satisfy millions of people, that isn't good enough for some. I mean, the ipad is useless without flash or various other slots, lack of features, but yet people still have a demand for innovative,luxury,cool items
eldictator1 1 year ago
@j101saar Take that leaf and put it in central london. Zero congestion charge, zero tax... saving of around £2k, plus the reduced fuel costs.. so thats about £19,000 for a fully loaded 4 door family car with 5 seats the size of a seat leon for example which goes for 18K for the 1.6tdi with less features. The public help pay towards the petrol car too, around 8 billion in air pollution illness and treatment and add another billion or two in oil subsidies and foreign oil wars
eldictator1 1 year ago
@eldictator1 I agree - the Leaf could be used as a city car. I wonder where the precious metals used in making the battery come from? Mostly South American countries & China: with questionable stability, human rights & environmental protection. And who is going to oversee battery disposal? The UN complains about laptop batteries already. Let's be reasonable - EVs aren't a silver bullet.
j101saar 1 year ago
@j101saar I agree that the prius Nimh battery uses rare metals mostly obtained from open cast mines, and the batteries aren't exactly perfect. Lithium however under current laws can actually be sent to the local dump/tip. Your not even allowed to do that with AA batteries nowadays. Apparently zero motocycles gets an 85%recycle rate the rest plastic. Lithium salt flat mining is better than most, but yes we do have to look at the source of all materials and potential water usage and pollution
eldictator1 1 year ago
@j101saar con..So yes in the world we live in, our conspicuous consumerist society we have an impact with everything we use. The computers you use now, the sending of our old computers to dumps in africa for children to sort, the bauxite from open cast mines to make our can of coke, the green beans for your sunday roast flown in from kenya...Cars by their nature will never be green...They aren't the silver bullet but can reduceC02 levels and decrease city air pollution and noise pollution..
eldictator1 1 year ago
@fullychargedshow Hi Robert.. no, I don't think it's part of a conspiracy -- that's my other video (You can't run your car on water). All I'm saying is that *right now* the promise of EVs exceeds the industry's ability to deliver. There are so many tiny "gotchas" that currently stop EVs from replacing "fossilers" and while I admire EV proponents like yourself, there has to be someone bring a little balance into the discussion (ie: me :-) Watch for my new video this week
xjet 1 year ago
@fullychargedshow I really do wonder sometimes about some of these conspiracy theories. I'm a full on petrol head but I'm also a bit of a techy nerd. If anything there are conspiracies holding back electric technology. You don't have to look far to see big oils involvement....
2007TypeR 1 year ago
good stuff man!
pedwards10 1 year ago
Hi Robert, Thanks for clarifying the truth about 'a popular light entertainment program' and their misinformation......as the 'Tesla Representative' on the day it was outstandingly frustrating on the filming days and since those days I have found myself CONSTANTLY having to tell the truth to the easily misled. Of course, they don't want to listen but it was good that you did. Again, your feature is very useful and I think i'll have the link printed on my business card :-)
lotus240r 1 year ago
@lotus240r I take it you were there with Don Cochrane. It must have been utterly maddening. I just wanted to at least make a token gesture at setting the record straight, and I utterly loved driving the Tesla. Oh yes, another thing I should have put in, did 172 miles on one charge, with plenty left over.
fullychargedshow 1 year ago
Watched the Fifth Gear review of the iMiev a few days ago and was even more disappointed with it than Top Gear's Tesla review. They set out to do something that the car was never designed for, long distance touring at high speed, and then proceeded to slag it off for running out of power and taking 6 hours to charge. No mention of fast charging was made. Shame on Tiff and Johnny. The only sane part if the segment were made by Rob but they cut that to pieces.
rlaxton 1 year ago
If you run out of petrol you get a friend to bring you a can of it. For electric cars to work they need some kind of backup for that in mind, like a small generator that can limp the car to a charging station. We also need the more affordable ones to look less like spaz chariots. It would also be a good idea to discuss the pollution caused by making the batteries as nickel mining is pretty damn polluting.
bytesabre 1 year ago
This was pretty good :)
Oldsmobile69 1 year ago
I am a petrolhead, what I conform to is chosen by me. By petrolhead one would assume fossel fuel is my only choice. But, after watching this, I would consider moving to be a ecohead. This is, unbias and extremely informative. I will be following this closely, with anticipation, its refreshing to see such an honest, transparent approach to journalism. Kudos.
AmbassadorSnaf 1 year ago