What most people (and I suspect you, too) fail to realize and this is a real danger (for you) is that there is a gospel law that is distinct from the OT Covenant Law. That is why the NT writers go on and on about OBEYING THE GOSPEL. They use phrase such as...
"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" Phil 2:12
"You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." Mark 7:8
I do agree....Evangelicalism is on a downgrade. I have been a Christian for thirty plus years and I have witnessed their compromise, their decline and the fruit it bears.
However mixing Law with Grace is not the solution. Paul needs to be emphasized. Gentiles are approached in a manner different from Jews under the Law. The saint in Christ Jesus is addressed on righteousness imputed through faith. When a overemphasis of Law is taught...then it is no more of grace (Romans 11:6).
I know that the context is vs. 3-10 about the future judgment of those who persecute believers. I am trying to understand why you quote this one verse in reply to my comment.
@jerlteets What many folks don't know is how much danger there is in not following the God of the Bible according to the revealed standards in the New Covenant (if you love me you will obey my commandmentst). There's a "gospel law" that is distinct from the OT Law. That is why the NT writers go on and on about OBEYING THE GOSPEL.
Obedience to the gospel is not as a law, rather it is in regards to its offer to be received by faith (Romans 1: & 5). The evidence that one has obeyed the gospel is that they will confess that they have believed and serve others (2 Corin 9:13). Those who will be punished are those who persecute the believer because they rejected the gospel of God's grace through their disobedience. You agree with me that salvation is by grace through faith apart from the law? Howabout sanctification?
@jerlteets It is ALL GRACE 100% - However your body still has to do it! Your mind is still engaged! And the effort is performed with your person. But you get NO CREDIT. It is merely an evidence of GOD'S POWER (thus 100% grace) that you GET TO DO IT! It is a PRIVILEGE not a CHORE to mortify your flesh and deny the world IF (and this is the kicker) IF you truly have SAVING FAITH! If not, well then you haven't really believed the truth - you just think you have!
Luther said; This difference between the Law and the Gospel is the height of knowledge in Christendom. Every person and all persons who assume or glory in the name of Christian should know and be able to state this difference. If this ability is lacking, one cannot tell a Christian from a heathen or a Jew; of such supreme importance is this differentiation. This is why St. Paul so strongly insists on a clean-cut and proper differentiating of these two doctrines.
I quote you the WORD and you quote Luther! That is legalism. And your point is... What?
Luther would condemn anyone who doesn't obey the gospel. There is a standard of holy living! For example... Would I be free to have sex in your church while the sermon was going on? Of course not! Yet according to you I could say, "Hey don't bind that law stuff on me! I am free in Christ!" Now, I chose that sin as something we can agree on (I hope). But what if I was sinning in another way?
@TCMAO0 - Quoting Luther is not legalism...it is getting support for the Scriptures I cited from one of the Reformation fathers. Okay...I can see we are not even on the same page. I am talking about the gospel of God's grace that saves us through faith and you are talking about the Christian life under law. I am responding to the contents of brother Mikes message and you are talking about gospel law as the Christian life...like is it a process that is not finished. This legalism. Gal 3:19-21
We as sinners don't deserve salvation but he loves us soo much he gave up his only begotten son..to save us.. Doesn't matter what you have become he will accept you because he loves you/us.
May God Bless everyone who heeds thy words spoken. Go and pray in the Holy Spirit and read the scriptures if you want to know more of the truth. Go to Jesus not to man for answers, he wants everyone to rely on him 100%. Jesus Christ is far more real than anyone in this world. He will be waiting for thoes wanting to come after him...Please go seek him don't wait any longer for his sake and yours..we are the lost and he will find us...
Remember to know knowledge is to fear God thus granting wisdom. So working out salvation with love and fear. I speak ofcourse of knowing God, not having knowledge in the scriptures, the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. This was revealed to me by our Lord...Heaven and hell have a far more realistic feeling than earth, it makes earth feel like a dream. The true life is with Christ out there in Heaven! Repent and believe in him he will not reject you! Desire him before it is too late.
The gospels that have been lost are, true forgiveness,salvation and the regenration of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is not a merely human decision. But a life lived out. It is so dificult to get save only God can save us. The true believer is the one that trully believes because of the changes in his/her life trhough the regenation of the Holy Spirit thus granting true salvation true repentance. Remember few may be that find true life. For many are invited but few are chosen.
There are only 2 places that the dead can go.Both the saved and the lost receive imperishable bodies that can never die.Nothing can enter Heaven that is unholy,just one sin makes us unholy,Jesus was God in flesh,He is only good,without sin.We must have His sinlessness imputed to us to become Holy,without sin.He must make us born again,by His power,not ours.All who Call upon Jesus to save them,will be born again and be saved,they will repent and believe.All who die with sin will reside in Hell.
Amen.I should have been more specific,thank you for pointing that out.There is also a group that won't be participating in the resurrection,the Rephaim or the decendents of the Nephilim.I believe this is found in Isaiah,although most reformed Christians don't believe this doctrine,it is Biblical.
I've often wondered that when the Bible tells us that"Many are called,but few are chosen"that these Raphaim(the dead) who won't be ressurected ,also have no need of the gospel.I know this is controversial and shouldn't be didvided over,but if this is true,it should be taught.Mike Heisner has a great series about this."The Genesis 6 hybrids" series is here on youtube.Mike wrote most of the LOGOS software.He also is reformed and teaches ancient languages.
Hebrew is Sheol and Greek is Hades. It is in the heart of the earth as Jesus said in Matthew 12:40 compare with Luke 16:19-31. This is like a county jail. Temporary until sentencing. Gehenna is the lake of fire (Matthew 25:41). This is State Prison after judgment and it will be a life sentence. Unbelief - John 3:16-21 The issue is not sin...Jesus paid for them. The issue is do you believe in Jesus' death and resurrection is for you?
Thank you for the invitation, however I know that hell is a real place. Jesus said so...and I agree with Him. He preached more on the reality of hell that He did about heaven. The reason why He did this is because He did not want anyone to go there without knowing about the danger.
@jerlteets , Well then, you haven't read early christian writings(greco roman era) have you. Yes, english(kjv) versions of the bible mention hell what 100+ times? Not so with earlier versions. Are you afraid to research early writings? Well, I wouldn't blame you as you might do what a number of people who researched them did, "find the truth." Any way, take care and peace.
Are you sure I haven't read early Christian writings? Are you 100% confident that I am motivated by fear to avoid doing research? Do you already know me so well from a couple of replies to you to be regarded as ignorant and stupid? But what does this matter. Jesus is my judge and to Him will I trust....not early Christian writings or the opinions of man who are devoid of the truth.
@jerlteets , It would seem that you answered your own questions, and yes, you did tip me off with your statement of, "He preached more on the reality of hell that He did about heaven." In closing I will respond to "Jesus is my judge and to Him will I trust....not early Christian writings or the opinions of man who are devoid of the truth." With- "of course you will!!"
You know what is really screwed up about most evangelics? they think that God is so arrogent that he will send someone to hell for all eternity for being led into beiliving a different religion. Shouldnt god have compassion for those who have been led astray?
On the contrary God will send these people to hell because they are breakers of His holy law. Everyone is already legally condemned from the moment they are born. Jesus just came to save those given to Him by the Father. If you repent and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ you indicate that you have been given to Jesus by His Father.
You know what is really arrogant? Is for man to think that God owes us anything. That any are saved is a demonstration of his mercy and his grace. Any and every man, who is full of sin and wickedness, who thinks that he should do anything, but beg for the mercy of the Lord, only demonstrates the depth of his darkness, of his depravity and utter unworthiness of anything other than the deepest darkest hell. As the Lord says, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy."
Why is god so angry with us? I didnt ask to be born. He can do anything he likes, in yet we are here, we cannot see god, and we are at the mercy of the elements. Why would god be so cruel?
Dear friend every person on this planet has a role and you my dear friend have one. Why don't you come to our Lord Jesus Christ and find out? He commands everyone to repent believe and be baptized. He rejects nobody however we ourselves condamn ourselves for we are our own worst enemy. We don't go to hell because of the devil but because if ourselves. Satan merely has that kind of power to damn us to hell. So you have free will to chose dear friend. Come to him he will save you may God bless you
Where is the words "free" and "will" occur together in the Bible? Jesus said the unregenerate are slaves to sin (John 8:34). Paul said said that as slaves to sin the sinner is free from the control of righteousness (Romans 6:20 & 21). The choosing is done by God (John 15:16). It takes God's Spirit, working by God's word that produces faith for the sinner to respond to God's grace (Titus 3:3-8, 1 Peter 1:22-25). The gate of heaven says "Whosoever" when you enter it says "Chosen."
Read Jesus' words in Matthew 7:13-23 Religion, no matter what title, leads their members down the broad road. Only those whom Jesus knows points both the heathen and the religious person through Jesus as the only gate (Jhn 7:7) down the narrow path of grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus alone. The majority reject this path because it means turning from the darkness of evil to the good in the kingdom of light (Colossians 1:12-14)
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. Heb 12:14
"but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. " Acts 10:35
There are many, many, more...
TCMAO0 1 year ago
What most people (and I suspect you, too) fail to realize and this is a real danger (for you) is that there is a gospel law that is distinct from the OT Covenant Law. That is why the NT writers go on and on about OBEYING THE GOSPEL. They use phrase such as...
"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" Phil 2:12
"You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." Mark 7:8
TCMAO0 1 year ago
I do agree....Evangelicalism is on a downgrade. I have been a Christian for thirty plus years and I have witnessed their compromise, their decline and the fruit it bears.
However mixing Law with Grace is not the solution. Paul needs to be emphasized. Gentiles are approached in a manner different from Jews under the Law. The saint in Christ Jesus is addressed on righteousness imputed through faith. When a overemphasis of Law is taught...then it is no more of grace (Romans 11:6).
jerlteets 1 year ago
@jerlteets He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 2 Thes 1:8
TCMAO0 1 year ago 2
@TCMAO0
I know that the context is vs. 3-10 about the future judgment of those who persecute believers. I am trying to understand why you quote this one verse in reply to my comment.
jerlteets 1 year ago
@jerlteets What many folks don't know is how much danger there is in not following the God of the Bible according to the revealed standards in the New Covenant (if you love me you will obey my commandmentst). There's a "gospel law" that is distinct from the OT Law. That is why the NT writers go on and on about OBEYING THE GOSPEL.
TCMAO0 1 year ago
@TCMAO0
Obedience to the gospel is not as a law, rather it is in regards to its offer to be received by faith (Romans 1: & 5). The evidence that one has obeyed the gospel is that they will confess that they have believed and serve others (2 Corin 9:13). Those who will be punished are those who persecute the believer because they rejected the gospel of God's grace through their disobedience. You agree with me that salvation is by grace through faith apart from the law? Howabout sanctification?
jerlteets 1 year ago
@jerlteets It is ALL GRACE 100% - However your body still has to do it! Your mind is still engaged! And the effort is performed with your person. But you get NO CREDIT. It is merely an evidence of GOD'S POWER (thus 100% grace) that you GET TO DO IT! It is a PRIVILEGE not a CHORE to mortify your flesh and deny the world IF (and this is the kicker) IF you truly have SAVING FAITH! If not, well then you haven't really believed the truth - you just think you have!
TCMAO0 1 year ago
@TCMAO0
Luther said; This difference between the Law and the Gospel is the height of knowledge in Christendom. Every person and all persons who assume or glory in the name of Christian should know and be able to state this difference. If this ability is lacking, one cannot tell a Christian from a heathen or a Jew; of such supreme importance is this differentiation. This is why St. Paul so strongly insists on a clean-cut and proper differentiating of these two doctrines.
jerlteets 1 year ago
I quote you the WORD and you quote Luther! That is legalism. And your point is... What?
Luther would condemn anyone who doesn't obey the gospel. There is a standard of holy living! For example... Would I be free to have sex in your church while the sermon was going on? Of course not! Yet according to you I could say, "Hey don't bind that law stuff on me! I am free in Christ!" Now, I chose that sin as something we can agree on (I hope). But what if I was sinning in another way?
TCMAO0 1 year ago
@TCMAO0 - Quoting Luther is not legalism...it is getting support for the Scriptures I cited from one of the Reformation fathers. Okay...I can see we are not even on the same page. I am talking about the gospel of God's grace that saves us through faith and you are talking about the Christian life under law. I am responding to the contents of brother Mikes message and you are talking about gospel law as the Christian life...like is it a process that is not finished. This legalism. Gal 3:19-21
jerlteets 1 year ago
He offers 2 things...A cross to die and eternal life..who will come after him?...
evomitzu 2 years ago
We as sinners don't deserve salvation but he loves us soo much he gave up his only begotten son..to save us.. Doesn't matter what you have become he will accept you because he loves you/us.
evomitzu 2 years ago
us/you = those elected = those that must believe (Acts 13:48)
TCMAO0 2 years ago
Indeed dear brother.
evomitzu 2 years ago 2
@ TCMAOO
Thanks for making that important clarification.
rainzion 2 years ago
May God Bless everyone who heeds thy words spoken. Go and pray in the Holy Spirit and read the scriptures if you want to know more of the truth. Go to Jesus not to man for answers, he wants everyone to rely on him 100%. Jesus Christ is far more real than anyone in this world. He will be waiting for thoes wanting to come after him...Please go seek him don't wait any longer for his sake and yours..we are the lost and he will find us...
evomitzu 2 years ago
Remember to know knowledge is to fear God thus granting wisdom. So working out salvation with love and fear. I speak ofcourse of knowing God, not having knowledge in the scriptures, the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. This was revealed to me by our Lord...Heaven and hell have a far more realistic feeling than earth, it makes earth feel like a dream. The true life is with Christ out there in Heaven! Repent and believe in him he will not reject you! Desire him before it is too late.
evomitzu 2 years ago
The gospels that have been lost are, true forgiveness,salvation and the regenration of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is not a merely human decision. But a life lived out. It is so dificult to get save only God can save us. The true believer is the one that trully believes because of the changes in his/her life trhough the regenation of the Holy Spirit thus granting true salvation true repentance. Remember few may be that find true life. For many are invited but few are chosen.
evomitzu 2 years ago
There are only 2 places that the dead can go.Both the saved and the lost receive imperishable bodies that can never die.Nothing can enter Heaven that is unholy,just one sin makes us unholy,Jesus was God in flesh,He is only good,without sin.We must have His sinlessness imputed to us to become Holy,without sin.He must make us born again,by His power,not ours.All who Call upon Jesus to save them,will be born again and be saved,they will repent and believe.All who die with sin will reside in Hell.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
and then in the lake of fire
DTPetrucci123490th 2 years ago
Amen.I should have been more specific,thank you for pointing that out.There is also a group that won't be participating in the resurrection,the Rephaim or the decendents of the Nephilim.I believe this is found in Isaiah,although most reformed Christians don't believe this doctrine,it is Biblical.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Isaiah 26:14.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
I've often wondered that when the Bible tells us that"Many are called,but few are chosen"that these Raphaim(the dead) who won't be ressurected ,also have no need of the gospel.I know this is controversial and shouldn't be didvided over,but if this is true,it should be taught.Mike Heisner has a great series about this."The Genesis 6 hybrids" series is here on youtube.Mike wrote most of the LOGOS software.He also is reformed and teaches ancient languages.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Hell? What is hell? Where is hell? Could hell simply be in "Hinnom Valley-Jerusalem" as stated in the OT/NT ?
99minerkc 2 years ago
No, it's not!
gtrjunky 2 years ago
@99minerkc
Hebrew is Sheol and Greek is Hades. It is in the heart of the earth as Jesus said in Matthew 12:40 compare with Luke 16:19-31. This is like a county jail. Temporary until sentencing. Gehenna is the lake of fire (Matthew 25:41). This is State Prison after judgment and it will be a life sentence. Unbelief - John 3:16-21 The issue is not sin...Jesus paid for them. The issue is do you believe in Jesus' death and resurrection is for you?
jerlteets 1 year ago
@jerlteets , Google: Hinnom Valley-Jerusalem then click PICTURE OF THE REAL HELL
Also check out "'Hell' as an invention of the church"
99minerkc 1 year ago
@99minerkc
Thank you for the invitation, however I know that hell is a real place. Jesus said so...and I agree with Him. He preached more on the reality of hell that He did about heaven. The reason why He did this is because He did not want anyone to go there without knowing about the danger.
jerlteets 1 year ago
@jerlteets , Well then, you haven't read early christian writings(greco roman era) have you. Yes, english(kjv) versions of the bible mention hell what 100+ times? Not so with earlier versions. Are you afraid to research early writings? Well, I wouldn't blame you as you might do what a number of people who researched them did, "find the truth." Any way, take care and peace.
99minerkc 1 year ago
@99minerkc
Are you sure I haven't read early Christian writings? Are you 100% confident that I am motivated by fear to avoid doing research? Do you already know me so well from a couple of replies to you to be regarded as ignorant and stupid? But what does this matter. Jesus is my judge and to Him will I trust....not early Christian writings or the opinions of man who are devoid of the truth.
jerlteets 1 year ago
@jerlteets , It would seem that you answered your own questions, and yes, you did tip me off with your statement of, "He preached more on the reality of hell that He did about heaven." In closing I will respond to "Jesus is my judge and to Him will I trust....not early Christian writings or the opinions of man who are devoid of the truth." With- "of course you will!!"
99minerkc 1 year ago
You know what is really screwed up about most evangelics? they think that God is so arrogent that he will send someone to hell for all eternity for being led into beiliving a different religion. Shouldnt god have compassion for those who have been led astray?
actionist2009 2 years ago
On the contrary God will send these people to hell because they are breakers of His holy law. Everyone is already legally condemned from the moment they are born. Jesus just came to save those given to Him by the Father. If you repent and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ you indicate that you have been given to Jesus by His Father.
TCMAO0 2 years ago
You know what is really arrogant? Is for man to think that God owes us anything. That any are saved is a demonstration of his mercy and his grace. Any and every man, who is full of sin and wickedness, who thinks that he should do anything, but beg for the mercy of the Lord, only demonstrates the depth of his darkness, of his depravity and utter unworthiness of anything other than the deepest darkest hell. As the Lord says, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy."
HermitintheRain 2 years ago 2
Why is god so angry with us? I didnt ask to be born. He can do anything he likes, in yet we are here, we cannot see god, and we are at the mercy of the elements. Why would god be so cruel?
actionist2009 2 years ago
Dear friend every person on this planet has a role and you my dear friend have one. Why don't you come to our Lord Jesus Christ and find out? He commands everyone to repent believe and be baptized. He rejects nobody however we ourselves condamn ourselves for we are our own worst enemy. We don't go to hell because of the devil but because if ourselves. Satan merely has that kind of power to damn us to hell. So you have free will to chose dear friend. Come to him he will save you may God bless you
evomitzu 2 years ago
@evomitzu
Where is the words "free" and "will" occur together in the Bible? Jesus said the unregenerate are slaves to sin (John 8:34). Paul said said that as slaves to sin the sinner is free from the control of righteousness (Romans 6:20 & 21). The choosing is done by God (John 15:16). It takes God's Spirit, working by God's word that produces faith for the sinner to respond to God's grace (Titus 3:3-8, 1 Peter 1:22-25). The gate of heaven says "Whosoever" when you enter it says "Chosen."
jerlteets 1 year ago
@actionist2009
Read Jesus' words in Matthew 7:13-23 Religion, no matter what title, leads their members down the broad road. Only those whom Jesus knows points both the heathen and the religious person through Jesus as the only gate (Jhn 7:7) down the narrow path of grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus alone. The majority reject this path because it means turning from the darkness of evil to the good in the kingdom of light (Colossians 1:12-14)
jerlteets 1 year ago
Comment removed
DARRYLLOYD 2 years ago
A false Jesus? Lol, now fundamentalists are attacking each other now for what? A different label.
forthebrotherhood 2 years ago