As a bisexual Methodist Christian, I support a fully inclusive church. If the UMC can allow divorce and remarriage, then it can be fully inclusive of LGBT people. Whoever you are: God loves you! =)
I cant agree with you more! What it means to me? It means that the christian dosent look at someone and see sexuality but a person who needs and desires a relationship with God. Im going to subscribe to your channel :)
What it means to me is to welcome everyone and anyone into our congregation because only then are we truly living the life that Jesus wanted us to live. We need to reach out to those who are out there and believe that Christianity is only for "straight" individuals. We are all God's children. I recently spoke at my congregation about this. Here is my speech: /watch?v=6YJhQ7_H1iw
Sorry 4 repeating myself on that central point, but that's exactly *Y* I repreated it...the point is so...*central*. U know, the 2 greatest commandments of the living GOD, etc. etc. etc.???
NOW, not everyone will B-lieve everything the UFMCC does, or says, 2 B God's will 4 THEM (and in my experience, MOST of their congregations would probably AGREE with U!) HOWEVER, they R an excellent *resource*, and the reconciling church MOVEMENT has "caught on" pretty much like the flames of Pentecost by now, so STUDY your Bibles, PRAY about this, and GO OUT IN 2 ALL THE WORLD & (well, U know the rest!) :)
One of those congregations B-longs 2 the well-established Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, which really "got the ball rolling" on this issue in SO many ways starting in LOS ANGELES in 1967! This is ONE way 2 find (I B-lieve) a way 2 effectively evangelize and heal (yes, heal) the downtrodden, marginalized gay Christian.
Okay, I think it's time 2 plaster a BUNCH more info on here about what it means, *2 me*, 2 B a welcoming, reconciling and affirming Christian! I am going 2 NAME several specific churches that B-came an integral part of my faith journey first: The Metropolitan Community Church of Austin, TX; University Baptist Church in Austin, TX; Saint Michael and ALL Angels Episcopal Church.
If we want 2 start "throwing Scripture around," how about some choice passages like THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES Chapter 10, Chapter 11, and Chapter 15? U know, the whole "GOD won't let those unclean Gentiles into the fold until they B-come EXACTLY like us JEWS by following ALL 613 mitzvot (commandments) in the Holy TORAH" issue! The very same God Who ISSUED the Torah @ Mt. Sinai revoked a few (!) mitzvot in Peter's vision of the "unclean" animals!
Okay, also directed 2 davegrohl88 and those who think in a similar manner, RIGHT back we go 2 those 2 words in the koine Greek, *malakoi* and *arsenokoitai* Upon opening up Dr. James STRONG'S Exhaustive Concordance of the Koine Greek New Testament, I learned some disturbing things! First of all, the 2nd (compound) word frequently DOES refer 2 a male prostitute, and English Bible translators DID refuse 2 translate it as "practicing homosexuals" 4 a VERY...LONG...time!!!
I am a lifelong United Methodist. The reason Jesus spent time with sinners and loved them was because he wanted them to overcome their sin and repent. All gays are violating 1 Corinthians 6:9 which says, "Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes NOR PRACTICING HOMOSEXUALS... will inherit the kingdom of God." This quote speaks for itself.
@davegrohl88 I am not violating anything, because I am not a male prostitute. The word 'homosexual' didn't appear in the Bible until 1958. MOST translations still don't use the work 'homosexual' in the Bible, because scholars know it's a mistranslation of the Greek language.
@tenorcervantes You are correct about the translation of the word "homosexual". But try and convince the Biblidiots that the Bible wasn't written in American English. Task impossible.
@tenorcervantes And by the way, Dave Whoever-U-R, the correct word is "quotation", and NOT "quote!!!" GRRR, that ticks me off when people do that! (I used 2 B a high school teacher, Vincent, so that should explain a lot). I won't harp on THIS point again, B-cause I figure either people "get it, or they don't," just like Philip McGraw, Ph.D., likes 2 say. ;)
@davegrohl88 Funny that - because my Methodist reverend performed my marriage - a gay marriage. You should be careful about which verses you pick and choose. I can choose many, many verses that you yourself violate. One of which is Judge not lest ye be judged. I think that speaks for itself. Be less of a Biblidiot, and more of a Christian. God's Word is VASTER than the Bible.
Watched most of your new vids Vince and glad to SEE your back. :D
I almost forgotten how beautiful you are in word and sight.
Anyway, to your Q of the day, week or month....
I can only speak from my own experience, understanding(s) of Scripture and feelings in regard. What is most challenging is that your question isn't hardly asked to the people you are asking, the "GLBT affirming Christian". I often find that (just like teens do with attempting to FIT IN with a group of people...
...rather that be gothic, punk, emo or nerd), people find a particular group of people that hold close to their theology and fight along side them to push their stances on others, to make them know "we are right and they are wrong". Gay and Gay Christian work with the same formula but with different ingredients.
I don't believe we have to be affirming or not, just be what Jesus was LOVE. I mean we have to find that medium that Jesus had to speak and be Truth, yet known as a "friend of sinners"
Jesus was, taught and shown love that we can see, feel and hear. A love that in unmeasurable, untouchable, and unconditional. As many know, Christ died while we were yet sinners. While we were still dead in our sin, Christ provided a way in love, to give us life. Yet many try to take that back and say ONLY for the righteous and shall we say, heterosexual. ;) My point is that the only identity we should mirror is that of Christ. Rather that be through His method and message of activism in...
proclaiming "Those without sin, cast the fist stone!!!" Or Him raising eyebrows my dinning with tax collector and challenging the law of His day by sending the once Christian murderer to Rome, to provide the Gospel of Good News to the Gentiles paving the way for us to KNOW this LOVE.
I am one who doesn't stand on one side or the other, but I stand with Christ and wherever He tells me to GO. Because His Truth and LOVE is to be known by all who give ear. The Word says if you say you love...
...your brother, but you in your heart hate him, the love of God is not in you. Paul speaks of the importance of having this love that Christ had, that is goes beyond hope and faith. Paul also says if you have done all great things, but have not loved, you have done nothing!
We are to be the LOVE and TRUTH that Christ CALLED us, ALL OF US to proclaim in word and deed, until His glorious return! amen.
I hope that kinda answers your question. :D (i ramble a lot)
I'm a pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). I think you sum up perfectly what it means to live as an open and reconciling Christian. It's stepping out and taking the risk to love as Jesus loved. Of course, Jesus not only reached out to the woman caught in adultery, he reached out to Zacchaeus, the little tax collector seen by all as an enemy. We are called to love all people, gay or straight. But we are also called to love those who hate us.
This sort of loving others is a challenge, one that even those who followed Jesus found they could not do. Yet, our baptism calls us to such a vocation...that of loving as God loves us. Thanks for this video. It made my day! :)
(I messed up my earlier comment, which is why I deleted it...)
What does this sort of loving look like, though? For me, I reach out to fellow pastors and other peopel who do NOT affirm me, those who speak out against marrige equity, for example. I don't try to preach at them (after all, do I like being preached at?). I make it a point to listen. To be with them. To not pass my judgements of them onto them. And to see them as images of God, even as I find myself in disagreement with what I hear.
@tenorcervantes FAR more easily said than done 4 most people I've met (self included, ahem). The Holy Spirit B-comes utterly ESSENTIAL in empowering *and* guiding us along, I B-lieve. By the way, have U ever read (or watched) THE HIDING PLACE? THAT oughta wake your spirit up!!! :) God bless.
@tenorcervantes FAR more easily said than lived out, however. I still B-lieve it's utterly impossible without the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ (didn't He Himself say something like that in the FIRST place, anyway???)
Boy I hope I do as well as Gary did on this question.:) I don't believe there should be a difference between a ROA Christian and a Christian. We should live our lives as Christ did which happened to be ROA. It is not only important that we show the love of Jesus Christ to our fellow mankind but also to ourselves. Let me be clear I fall very short of living to those expectations but with continued striving and His grace I hope to come closer. As hard as it may be we also must show...
There are different definitions. In some denominations, it means you can be a member of you are gay, but you can hold no positions of leadership. In some denominations, being affirming or open/reconciling means you can do anything in the church, if you have the qualifications.
I believe an affirming congregation needs to treat gays just like they treat straight people. The church needs to encourage gays and try to fight homophobia. My church does those things, but is not formally affirming.
That is great. However, I am asking, what is YOUR personal role and duty as a reconciling, open and affirming Christian? I like to think that each of us see our role as Christians differently than one another, so what do you understand your role to be as a Christian that is reconciling, open and affirming, etc.?
I got caught commenting on the dishonesty affirming churches that don't treat gays with equity. I'm a queer, reconciling, open, & affirming Christian. Same-sex relationships are not sinful. They are as life-giving as straight relationships. God loves GLBTQs. My role is to help GLBTQs feel welcome in church. Another role is to be present in the queer community so people see Christians are fighting for the good of the GLBTQ community. That helps with reconciliation between the two communities.
I help GLBs who feel God does not love them by helping them examine the texts used to condemn GLBs, and by helping them see the difference between official church teachings and what the Bible says. I think that is in harmony with your desires to teach people God loves them. I also try to help GLB people understand they might have a special and an extremely valuable role in God's work - taking the gospel to other groups who feel deeply they are not loved. I hope that answers your question.
As a bisexual Methodist Christian, I support a fully inclusive church. If the UMC can allow divorce and remarriage, then it can be fully inclusive of LGBT people. Whoever you are: God loves you! =)
histrav 3 months ago
I cant agree with you more! What it means to me? It means that the christian dosent look at someone and see sexuality but a person who needs and desires a relationship with God. Im going to subscribe to your channel :)
123moscowman 5 months ago
God bless you brother!
limellexX 10 months ago
What it means to me is to welcome everyone and anyone into our congregation because only then are we truly living the life that Jesus wanted us to live. We need to reach out to those who are out there and believe that Christianity is only for "straight" individuals. We are all God's children. I recently spoke at my congregation about this. Here is my speech: /watch?v=6YJhQ7_H1iw
starfleetofficer1 11 months ago
Sorry 4 repeating myself on that central point, but that's exactly *Y* I repreated it...the point is so...*central*. U know, the 2 greatest commandments of the living GOD, etc. etc. etc.???
bimboblacky 1 year ago
NOW, not everyone will B-lieve everything the UFMCC does, or says, 2 B God's will 4 THEM (and in my experience, MOST of their congregations would probably AGREE with U!) HOWEVER, they R an excellent *resource*, and the reconciling church MOVEMENT has "caught on" pretty much like the flames of Pentecost by now, so STUDY your Bibles, PRAY about this, and GO OUT IN 2 ALL THE WORLD & (well, U know the rest!) :)
bimboblacky 1 year ago
One of those congregations B-longs 2 the well-established Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, which really "got the ball rolling" on this issue in SO many ways starting in LOS ANGELES in 1967! This is ONE way 2 find (I B-lieve) a way 2 effectively evangelize and heal (yes, heal) the downtrodden, marginalized gay Christian.
bimboblacky 1 year ago
Okay, I think it's time 2 plaster a BUNCH more info on here about what it means, *2 me*, 2 B a welcoming, reconciling and affirming Christian! I am going 2 NAME several specific churches that B-came an integral part of my faith journey first: The Metropolitan Community Church of Austin, TX; University Baptist Church in Austin, TX; Saint Michael and ALL Angels Episcopal Church.
bimboblacky 1 year ago
If we want 2 start "throwing Scripture around," how about some choice passages like THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES Chapter 10, Chapter 11, and Chapter 15? U know, the whole "GOD won't let those unclean Gentiles into the fold until they B-come EXACTLY like us JEWS by following ALL 613 mitzvot (commandments) in the Holy TORAH" issue! The very same God Who ISSUED the Torah @ Mt. Sinai revoked a few (!) mitzvot in Peter's vision of the "unclean" animals!
bimboblacky 1 year ago
Okay, also directed 2 davegrohl88 and those who think in a similar manner, RIGHT back we go 2 those 2 words in the koine Greek, *malakoi* and *arsenokoitai* Upon opening up Dr. James STRONG'S Exhaustive Concordance of the Koine Greek New Testament, I learned some disturbing things! First of all, the 2nd (compound) word frequently DOES refer 2 a male prostitute, and English Bible translators DID refuse 2 translate it as "practicing homosexuals" 4 a VERY...LONG...time!!!
bimboblacky 1 year ago
I am a lifelong United Methodist. The reason Jesus spent time with sinners and loved them was because he wanted them to overcome their sin and repent. All gays are violating 1 Corinthians 6:9 which says, "Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes NOR PRACTICING HOMOSEXUALS... will inherit the kingdom of God." This quote speaks for itself.
davegrohl88 2 years ago
@davegrohl88 I am not violating anything, because I am not a male prostitute. The word 'homosexual' didn't appear in the Bible until 1958. MOST translations still don't use the work 'homosexual' in the Bible, because scholars know it's a mistranslation of the Greek language.
tenorcervantes 2 years ago
@tenorcervantes You are correct about the translation of the word "homosexual". But try and convince the Biblidiots that the Bible wasn't written in American English. Task impossible.
nicksum29 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes And by the way, Dave Whoever-U-R, the correct word is "quotation", and NOT "quote!!!" GRRR, that ticks me off when people do that! (I used 2 B a high school teacher, Vincent, so that should explain a lot). I won't harp on THIS point again, B-cause I figure either people "get it, or they don't," just like Philip McGraw, Ph.D., likes 2 say. ;)
bimboblacky 1 year ago
@davegrohl88 Funny that - because my Methodist reverend performed my marriage - a gay marriage. You should be careful about which verses you pick and choose. I can choose many, many verses that you yourself violate. One of which is Judge not lest ye be judged. I think that speaks for itself. Be less of a Biblidiot, and more of a Christian. God's Word is VASTER than the Bible.
nicksum29 1 year ago
Watched most of your new vids Vince and glad to SEE your back. :D
I almost forgotten how beautiful you are in word and sight.
Anyway, to your Q of the day, week or month....
I can only speak from my own experience, understanding(s) of Scripture and feelings in regard. What is most challenging is that your question isn't hardly asked to the people you are asking, the "GLBT affirming Christian". I often find that (just like teens do with attempting to FIT IN with a group of people...
mjpunk1234 2 years ago
...rather that be gothic, punk, emo or nerd), people find a particular group of people that hold close to their theology and fight along side them to push their stances on others, to make them know "we are right and they are wrong". Gay and Gay Christian work with the same formula but with different ingredients.
I don't believe we have to be affirming or not, just be what Jesus was LOVE. I mean we have to find that medium that Jesus had to speak and be Truth, yet known as a "friend of sinners"
mjpunk1234 2 years ago
Jesus was, taught and shown love that we can see, feel and hear. A love that in unmeasurable, untouchable, and unconditional. As many know, Christ died while we were yet sinners. While we were still dead in our sin, Christ provided a way in love, to give us life. Yet many try to take that back and say ONLY for the righteous and shall we say, heterosexual. ;) My point is that the only identity we should mirror is that of Christ. Rather that be through His method and message of activism in...
mjpunk1234 2 years ago
proclaiming "Those without sin, cast the fist stone!!!" Or Him raising eyebrows my dinning with tax collector and challenging the law of His day by sending the once Christian murderer to Rome, to provide the Gospel of Good News to the Gentiles paving the way for us to KNOW this LOVE.
I am one who doesn't stand on one side or the other, but I stand with Christ and wherever He tells me to GO. Because His Truth and LOVE is to be known by all who give ear. The Word says if you say you love...
mjpunk1234 2 years ago
...your brother, but you in your heart hate him, the love of God is not in you. Paul speaks of the importance of having this love that Christ had, that is goes beyond hope and faith. Paul also says if you have done all great things, but have not loved, you have done nothing!
We are to be the LOVE and TRUTH that Christ CALLED us, ALL OF US to proclaim in word and deed, until His glorious return! amen.
I hope that kinda answers your question. :D (i ramble a lot)
mjpunk1234 2 years ago
I'm a pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). I think you sum up perfectly what it means to live as an open and reconciling Christian. It's stepping out and taking the risk to love as Jesus loved. Of course, Jesus not only reached out to the woman caught in adultery, he reached out to Zacchaeus, the little tax collector seen by all as an enemy. We are called to love all people, gay or straight. But we are also called to love those who hate us.
Journeys2008 2 years ago
This sort of loving others is a challenge, one that even those who followed Jesus found they could not do. Yet, our baptism calls us to such a vocation...that of loving as God loves us. Thanks for this video. It made my day! :)
(I messed up my earlier comment, which is why I deleted it...)
Journeys2008 2 years ago
What does this sort of loving look like, though? For me, I reach out to fellow pastors and other peopel who do NOT affirm me, those who speak out against marrige equity, for example. I don't try to preach at them (after all, do I like being preached at?). I make it a point to listen. To be with them. To not pass my judgements of them onto them. And to see them as images of God, even as I find myself in disagreement with what I hear.
Journeys2008 2 years ago
@Journeys2008 Fantastic answer!!
tenorcervantes 2 years ago
...Christians that don't accept us that we still love and accept them.
Vince I really enjoy your thought provoking questions and hope you keep them coming.
curnon69 2 years ago
You are so right! There shouldn't be a difference!! Our duty as all Christians is to show everyone unconditional love without any reservations!!
tenorcervantes 2 years ago
@tenorcervantes FAR more easily said than done 4 most people I've met (self included, ahem). The Holy Spirit B-comes utterly ESSENTIAL in empowering *and* guiding us along, I B-lieve. By the way, have U ever read (or watched) THE HIDING PLACE? THAT oughta wake your spirit up!!! :) God bless.
bimboblacky 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes FAR more easily said than lived out, however. I still B-lieve it's utterly impossible without the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ (didn't He Himself say something like that in the FIRST place, anyway???)
bimboblacky 1 year ago
Boy I hope I do as well as Gary did on this question.:) I don't believe there should be a difference between a ROA Christian and a Christian. We should live our lives as Christ did which happened to be ROA. It is not only important that we show the love of Jesus Christ to our fellow mankind but also to ourselves. Let me be clear I fall very short of living to those expectations but with continued striving and His grace I hope to come closer. As hard as it may be we also must show...
curnon69 2 years ago
There are different definitions. In some denominations, it means you can be a member of you are gay, but you can hold no positions of leadership. In some denominations, being affirming or open/reconciling means you can do anything in the church, if you have the qualifications.
I believe an affirming congregation needs to treat gays just like they treat straight people. The church needs to encourage gays and try to fight homophobia. My church does those things, but is not formally affirming.
garysdeskcom 2 years ago
That is great. However, I am asking, what is YOUR personal role and duty as a reconciling, open and affirming Christian? I like to think that each of us see our role as Christians differently than one another, so what do you understand your role to be as a Christian that is reconciling, open and affirming, etc.?
tenorcervantes 2 years ago
I got caught commenting on the dishonesty affirming churches that don't treat gays with equity. I'm a queer, reconciling, open, & affirming Christian. Same-sex relationships are not sinful. They are as life-giving as straight relationships. God loves GLBTQs. My role is to help GLBTQs feel welcome in church. Another role is to be present in the queer community so people see Christians are fighting for the good of the GLBTQ community. That helps with reconciliation between the two communities.
garysdeskcom 2 years ago
I help GLBs who feel God does not love them by helping them examine the texts used to condemn GLBs, and by helping them see the difference between official church teachings and what the Bible says. I think that is in harmony with your desires to teach people God loves them. I also try to help GLB people understand they might have a special and an extremely valuable role in God's work - taking the gospel to other groups who feel deeply they are not loved. I hope that answers your question.
garysdeskcom 2 years ago
Great response Gary =)
tenorcervantes 2 years ago