2 of 5—The Book of Job: an awkward combination of two separate tales?

[tsedoklizhi]

yeah,but can't explain those miracles in your life that did happen to u. there is a God and The devil. v v. even if u don't choose a side. ur damned. It's a bummer that u can't choose to be free. ur always going to be under someone or something. all the way to the start to the end.

[brainouty]

2:48 on Satan being absent for the next 40 chapters -- not true, but again in English it might appear he is absent.

[ToddGates]

> in the English it might appear he is absent

Yes, he says nothing, and no one refers to him, or even acknowledges his existence in the least. "Bad things" are always caused by God because of punishment or for some other mysterious reason beyond human grasp.

[brainouty]

Todd, Satan is referred to by many names and allusions throughout the OT. Keywords in the Hebrew to denote Satan don't necessarily show up in the English. Again, a comment isn't enough space to explain, this answer will just have to wait for the exegesis. But surely you can imagine that much is lost in translation. :)

[brainouty]

Hey, Todd: I skimmed through and found these references, then stopped looking at Chap 29's beginning.

Job 4:15-18, fallen angels; 5:1, (elect angels), 15:15 (maybe both types of angels); 26:4 (accusation that Bildad speaks for the devil). 26:6 one of Satan's (or a head demon) by name, Abaddon & also 28:22.

I didn't look up nicknames yet or do Hebrew allusive searches.

[RPFS2008]

Isn't Abaddon a place not a person?

[brainouty]

Abaddon is both a place and a person, RPFS2008. Often places are named after the being founding them. Actually, Hebrew Abaddon means 'Destruction', so the demon named Abaddon in Revelation is a nickname. Doesn't seem to be the same as Satan's, though. Since Satan will be lord of hell/Lake of Fire, to name the place for who will head it, makes sense. The Abaddon in Revelation is RELEASED by Satan, kills the two witnesses in Rev 11, so probably is not the same person. Hope this helps.

[RPFS2008]

As I understand it, it wasn't until Christianity, and most notably Revelations, that Abaddon became a person or being. Prior to that it was known as a place or state of destruction or dying or decompossing.

Perhaps I am wrong tho - I don't know hebrew.

[RPFS2008]

*decomposing

[brainouty]

Well, RPFS2008, the personification of Destruction actually began what -- 4000 BC or so. It was a common cultural idea, and Hebrew uses it both in the OT. Revelation is not a new use of the term. What was new, was the transliteration of the Hebrew into the Greek, in Revelation. Greek word equivalent stems from apollumi, from which the Greeks got Apollos. Ergo Satan aka Apollos aka Abaddon is as old as Greek culture, & probably older than that, yet as current as Mothman (book not movie).

[brainouty]

Todd, as far as the 'bad things' comment, you know that the discussion is a report of what everyone SAYS whether true or not, don't you? So that doesn't mean God agrees with everything said.

Having said that, Isaiah 45:7 says God is responsible for making the evil one (if it's properly translated), so still your underlying point is valid.

[brainouty]

Just to clear the air: I'm not interested in converting you or defending the Book of Job. I just get 'anal' about misrepresentations fo the text. Whether someone agrees, disagrees (moi aussi) is not an issue.

[RodHullIOnceWasHim]

haha, my point on the previous video there... Maybe I should have waited...

[Elaina43]

fantastic!

[ToddGates]

> fantastic!

Thanks Elaina!

[natewheatshelf]

Badda-BING!

[RabidAp3]

comment

[SuperiorSavior]

Job was always my favourite work of literature in the Bible. Author two's contribution, I always used to use against Christian apologists, for God's claim that we shouldn't even try to understand him; if we accept the bible, we should accept this claim in Job, and reject the Bible!

[ToddGates]

> for God's claim that we shouldn't even try to understand him; if we accept the bible, we should accept this claim in Job, and reject the Bible!

Well said!

[DJAnihilist]

Perhaps there are smaller details that piece "author 1" and "author 2"s stories. For instance, Job woke up early in the morning to make sacrifices for his children in case they sinned against God, was rebuked by his friends, and, later, interceded for them. No one in the story is exempt from the judgment of God, although the righteous do not suffer as greatly as the unrighteous (Job survives, as do his friends, but his children do not). Also, the opening verse of chapter 37

[DJAnihilist]

I mean Job 32:1 states: "So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes." This indicates, to me, that the text presents a consistent theme regarding man's unrighteousness and God's righteousness.

[chumfilter]

I have wondered about accounts of incest in the bible. Adam and Eve had kids, their kids had kids. Brothers and sisters? This is how the world was populated? After god killed everyone with the flood, Moses repopulated the earth with more incest? This is literal translation. If the bible is not literal, then all is up to man's interpretation.