Heres another suggestion. Churchill engaged, destroyed and was damaged by the Hyp's. Agrippa was shown broadside to Alex so must have been attacking someone else - Churchill. Roanoake was broadside to Churchill when rammed so must have been attacking someone else, ie B5 (Alex was not recieving capital hits, B5 was heavily damaged). This would explain why Sheridan ordered a firing solution on Roanoake - Roanoke was still alive at that point and B5 must have changed targets to Agrippa off-screen.
@x82ndODSTx Given how damaged B5 was by the end of the battle, the sensors could've been screwed up and got the enemy ships mixed up or something.....
@girlgarde Or you could blame it on Sherriden having a brain fart, though that wouldn't exactly inspire confidence if you found out your leader suddenly couldn't think straight mid-battle.
Cripes that's SECEDED from Earth not Succeeded. To Secede in a Secession is to Separate from another, to Succeed in a Succession is to Take Over After another. Secessionists are in the former and Successors are in the latter.
great scene. still dont really get why clark's ships decided to fight in proximity of Babylon 5. Couldnt they just lob missiles at it all day while sitting back outside of its energy grid or whatever.
@2009worstyearever They did not want to destroy B5, with all the foreign ambassadors on it they would have just about pissed off every race they know.
And with the other ships hugging B5 they had to move in. P.S those cannons they show that look like they are popping stuff out are the missile countermeasures the fighters intercept and destroy missiles too.
Why does Sheridan have to get command info from multiple stations on the command deck? He walks from station to station all through this scene. Seems awfully inefficient. But then again, it could be that JMS took as much care with his blocking as his did in selecting those god awful background actors.
@MultiKronblom they added some kind of identification program in the computer systems of the fighters so they know who is who. they say it several times during the series.
I was working at a place that had access to network downloads and a large TV screen. So, I got up one Sunday morning, came into work and saw Severed Dreams for the first time with the best video and surround sound available at the time. It completely blew me away and I spent the rest of the week until the episode showed on TV raving about it to my friends. I still think it is the single greatest sci-fi moment on TV EVER!
"This is Captain Dexter Smith of the Earth Alliance destroyer Agrippa to Babylon 5 & renegade ships.You are ordered to surrender your commands & prepare to be boarded."
Major Ryan-"Launch fighters"
Captain Smith-"This is your only warning.If you do not surrender,we'll be forced to initiate deadly force."
One of my personal favorite battles throughout the series...it's a real shame that the only other cuts of it currently on youtube are just another excuse to play music so loud that you can't here the best lines...Sometimes I actually want to hear Delenn saying "If you value your lives, be somewhere else!" to end hostilities!!!!
Did the enemy ships really think they stood a chance? It was their two ships against another 2 ships and Babylon 5. Who commands these ships, kamikaze pilots?
@wuebboltc They had 2 or 3 Hyperion class Cruisers with them so I guess they thought they stood a chance PLUS they may not have known about the Churchill being there.....
Only Battlestar Galactica has come anywhere near this leave of CGI greatness, and that has had 10 years of advancements in it bag of tricks. Babylon 5 battles are still the best in Sci-fi.
@jutau That's the problem with having only a limited time per episode - sometimes they have to cut out scenes we'd all like to see. But you could be guaranteed that the reason the Churchill suffered such horrific damage is that effectively it was four capital ships against two. None of the Clarke loyal ships turned their main guns on B5 because they wanted to take her intact. From what'. The Churchill probably faced off against the two hyperions and the Roanoke.
Ok, been watching this episode at home. When the Churchill rams itself into the Roanoke, it doesn't damage it greatly? Because that's what Babylon5 attacks. Then the Alexander attacks the Agrippa and damages it, apparently, a little bit. Now, my question is this... wasn't the Roanoke already pretty much destroyed before Babylon 5 went blasting away? Or did the Alexander damage it more heavily? That's what confuses me is what looks like a switch of ships.
@k1701e They're pretty easy to pick up off of Amazon for cheap, although that does mean it depends on where you live. Well worth picking up the boxset, although I'd avoid Legend of the Rangers, and A Call To Arms if I were you.
@ScreamingTc I have the entire 5 season box set, Crusade the movies set, Legend of the Rangers ;) and Lost Tales. LOTR and ACTA aint so bad. I like ACTA for the soundtrack,(cool mix of Industrial,asian instruments, this set the trend for BSG). LOTR was ok, like certain other series, was never given a damn chance to grow and evolve(Crusade,Firefly,Odyessy 5,Caprica).
LOTR and Lost Tales, were not up to standard,I, at the time and still today am just glad to get more B5!
@k1701e The Lockley Lost Tales was pants, but the Sherriden one wasn't that bad. Plus it did have the epic scene of the Centauri vs the two Earth Force Warlocks. The one thing Babylon 5 consistently managed to do, with the exception of A Call To Arms, is frame the battles beautifully. I also dislike ACTA for the same reason you like it, I just prefer Christopher Franke's ability to bring emotion to a scene.
I would like to see more of the B5 universe, but it needs an epic story to match.
@ScreamingTc I hear what you say, ACTA was a different style of B5, a test and a segue into Crusade, very experimental. C. Franke's music is soo awesome, distinct.IMHO put him with great tv and movie composers such as Goldsmith,Horner, Poledoris,Williams and most recently Bear Mccreary. So gotta complete the Episodic soundtrack collection!
Would be nice to get a new series or a big screen movie,
@JimbobHarrigan1984 The difference with the Pegasus is that no one died doing it. The crew of the Churchill on the other hand suffered a much more horrific fate - spaced, burns and asphyxiation as the fires on board ate up the oxygen supplies. From the sounds of it they were cut off from the escape pods. Maybe a few lucky survivors would have been pulled from compartments within the ship. It's probably what partly played into Hiroshi's decision to ram the Roanoke.
@ScreamingTc Is the Roanoke the same ship that was destroyed at the end of this video, that Sheridan offered to save the crew from or is that a different Clark loyal ship?
@michaelhviper Actually it's a scripting mistake..or a rendering mistake. Can't remember which off the top of my head. The Roanoke was rammed by the Churchill and it's the Agrippa that suffers the internal explosions at the end. There's one other CGI related mistake in the episode....if you can spot it I'll give you a free cookie. :)
@ScreamingTc Does it have to do with the fact that we don't see any of the Hyperion class vessels fighting? the other thing I wanted to say is that the Agrippa kinda looks intact maybe the crew of Babylon 5 were able to salvage from the wreck.
@michaelhviper The only reason you don't see the Hyperions fighting is due to running time. No, the other CGI mistake is the early strafing run by the Starfuries on the Churchill, which then cuts to the bridge of the Alexander shaking from the hit.
@ScreamingTc Ya I see it now to bad I didn't notice it sooner. But thei mis a great Sci Fi battle, this is one of the one I remember the most from Babylon 5.
@gasdfw5 Star Trek ship-to-ship combat is interesting, but the deflector shields on each ship absorb much, if not all of the damage. Occassionaly the shields will fail and the ship(s) will take some sort of damage, but it is nothing like the battles in Babylon 5. B5 battles cause major, sometimes horrendous, damage between the dueling vessels. Much like one would see when two World War 2 era battleships went toe to toe.
@proadmin1 That is indeed true, although originally the plan was to give the Omega a gimbal based engine which could move independently of the ships direction, due to the fact that the rotating section would have caused the ship to move out of control with a normal engine design. It had to be binned though, and physics partly ignored due to the design constraints posed by early CGI...that and most people wouldn't know that the rotating section would effect normal movement.
I always assumed they account for the horrific damage the Churchill takes. It would have been 2 omega destroyers vs the 2 omegas and 2 hyperions. I doubt the omegas wouldn't want to engage B5 with their heavy weaponry for fear of the damage they'd cause - remember they're there to capture and not destroy the station. The capital ships would have largely ignored B5 and gone for each other. So off screen the Churchill and starfuries take out the 2 cruisers and held the other omega at bay.
@ScreamingTc Sound in space is for the audience, characters don't react to the sounds so you assume there isn't any sound, it just has sound for our benefit.
It's much like naration, none of the other characters can hear it, but we, as the audience are given insight into it.
Sometimes, some shows in certain scenes, (Babylon 5: Thirdspace did this, as did Star Trek XI) if a character is out in space, there will be little to no sound.
@ALBANO2684 Yes there would be, because he's wearing a helmet, he would hear the sound of his own breathing within said helmet, as well as beeps from the suit's interface which would have a speaker inside said helmet.
@KirbSleep JMS made a point to use sound for space battles, merely because everyone is used to hearing fight scenes and find it disturbing to not hear anything.
If you watch the episode "A View From the Gallery" (season 5, episode 4) you'll notice the space battles outside the station hadn't any sound.
I'm sorry, but that acting is just stale and rigid. The Cgi looks good for the time but when they switch to the actors it really kills the tension they're going for.
@ptdnet I think we can forgive most Tv shows that fallacy. We don't live in a vacuum, and are thus used to hearing things go "KABOOM!", and of course it means we associate certain sounds with certain out comes.
@ptdnet They wouldn't be worthy of the name "destroyers" if they didn't cause much damage, would they?
But the point you made about no sound in space and ScreamingTc's reply, the creaot (JMS) incorporated that into a lot of episodes, most notably "A View From the Gallery" (Season 5) where there was a massive battle but no sound effects were used. There's also an instance of it in the movie "ThirdSpace" (if you did not know any of this)
@ptdnet Agreed. The sound made by the main forward X-Ray Laser cannons does sound neat. It sounds alot like a high speed saw, like the kind used for cutting stone. I used one at a job years ago & upon firing it up I noticed that the sounds were similar.
Severed Dreams, No Surrender No Retreat, & Endgame have THE best battles of all time, in my opinion.
@ 0:31, when the destroyers start slugging away at each other, you know that its going to be a costly battle. But the thing that have I always admired about this series is that they showed that fighters (small attack craft) can do wicked damage to even the most impressive battlecruiser. That is something that always seemed to be left out of Star Trek.
@AlbertaWildman sometimes I question why they even use caps. When a fighter dies, you lose 1 life, when a cap dies, you lose hundreds. And let's say 250 fighters are (I guess) a lot stronger then 1 capitalship.
But then again, fighters can't travel very far.
And, fighter only battles look a lot less interesting then a battle with caps :P
As much as I love the Hiroshi moment. It's really the dead and dying Narn, Security Force, and Marines that gets to me. The action outside of Babylon 5 is summed up emotionally with the blood that now flows across her decks.
Hiroshi making the most of her dying ship's last moments is one of the finer moments of Bab5. If she was going down, she was damned sure going to take out one of the Clark-loyal destroyers with her The other captain's (the one calling Hiroshi at the last moment) reaction once he realizes what Hiroshi intends... is heartrending...
Hiroshi is a good example of one of the things that made this show so great, so many awesome minor characters that actually made a difference in the episodes they were in. Her time on the show was short, but she made on hell of an impression,
@HaystackCaldoon That whole scene, from the moment you get to see the heavily damaged Churchill, till the moment it rams into the Roanoke, pretty much remains one of my favourite moments of any sci-fi. The emotional impact is such that I got goosebumps the first time I watched it, and still feel the heart strings tug even after the umpteenth time. Something I could never feel with the likes of Star Trek.
@HaystackCaldoon Yeah. It was a sad scene to see the Churchill destroyed taking out one the Pro-Clark destroyers. It helped to turn the tide of the battle in the good guys favor..... That scene made me angry at Clark and the other anti-alien hate mongers on Earth for causing this tragedy to occur....
I think it's more to do with the fact that it's a pivotal episode in the series, and one of the most emotionally charged of the series. This is the stand against the darkness and corruption that had spread back in Earth Gov.
The fact it is man against man underlines the seriousness of the situation, and ties a viewer into it emotionally. It's no longer some random alien race the characters are fighting, but their own people, in what turns out to be a very close, intense and desperate battle.
@USN1985 It's still on from time to time, but it tends to relagated to obscure time slots. It suffers from being ahead of it's time and now being dated, at least with Fx. It's ironic really seeming the praise that the new BSG got heaped upon it, that Babylon 5 never achieved the same cult status or popularity. I can't imagine a remake anytime soon, at least one that keeps to the same spirit and plot line as the original show.
@USN1985 Tell me about it. It started falling apart during season 3. That's the problem when you try to write a show with no idea of how to get from A to B. You make it up as you go along, and then wonder why it starts to make less and less sense. By season 4 they pretty much gave up trying to make it all fit together, and the ending was pretty disapointing. Deux Ex Machina is a poor, poor excuse, and just shows a lack of imagination and cohesion from the script writers.
Exactly. If they'd had it all thought out in advance it would've made much more sense in my opinion. They tried to make it too complicated and in-depth while throwing in twists at every turn. I finally lost interest. How did it end?
@ScreamingTc We dont care.. Babylon 5 is still imho the TOP 1 space opera / sci-fi show , BSG came close but it falled apart in seasons 3.5/4 due to RDM being a full jackass ("its the characters stupid") B5 is the only "long" history with its prologue, chapters, end and epiloge wich works wonderfully , i renember when RDM said they were ending BSG in season 4 so they could end as they wanted and that S4 would be "one hell of a ride" .. well Ron you fail , B5 S4 was THE hell of a ride
I d'no. For Crowning Moments of Awesome, I have to give it to Sheridan when answers his torturer (in a rather later episode) with "Every time I say... NO" .
This episode has one of the best CMOA's in the series:
Clark-loyalist Captain: "We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ships."
Delenn: "Why not? Only ONE human captain has ever survived battle with the Minbari fleet. HE is behind me. YOU are in front of me. If you value your lives, BE SOMEWHERE ELSE."
Thats the problem with star trek, it didnt tell a story, all it did is have episodes. Its only after they started to add plots expanding through other series did some of star trek episodes get good. Like during DS9 and the dominion war.
I watched all five seasons 2 yrs ago via netflix. What a great series. Only two tv movies I didn't see were River of Dreams and Call to Arms. B5 was everything Star Trek should've been.
@Melville10 River of Souls and Legend of Rangers are mainly crap, A Call to arms is great.. it is pure B5 and it ties with season 5 (the white star based destroyers Sheridan said wanted to develop , the beginning of the anounced in season 4 Drakh War and it gives clues of the end of the Telepat war) and tied in with a potential contunuation (Crusade)
I can recall watching this series (and this episode) in the late 1990s. When I first saw this, I was amazed at how well done the combat scenes were, for earlier CGI technology.
Babylon 5 quickly replaced Star Trek as my favorite. I bought all of the season sets on DVD when they first came out, & picked up the movies box set later on.
Oh, it's the same for me!! Star Trek will have always have a place in my heart as my "first love", but Babylon 5 is my all time love now, above my other sci-fi faves like Farscape, Stargate, or BSG
@AlbertaWildman Considering Babylon 5 was the first ever television show to start using CGI instead of models for everything, they did a bloody good job.
Those Omega's sound mean!
TheBlackSpider82 1 week ago
@TheBlackSpider82 They sound like they warship. None of that namby pamby stuff you get with Trek.
ScreamingTc 1 week ago
Heres another suggestion. Churchill engaged, destroyed and was damaged by the Hyp's. Agrippa was shown broadside to Alex so must have been attacking someone else - Churchill. Roanoake was broadside to Churchill when rammed so must have been attacking someone else, ie B5 (Alex was not recieving capital hits, B5 was heavily damaged). This would explain why Sheridan ordered a firing solution on Roanoake - Roanoke was still alive at that point and B5 must have changed targets to Agrippa off-screen.
Debbiebabe69 3 weeks ago
B5 STILL has the best space battles in Sci Fi!
VinnyMonster1 3 weeks ago
1:16 it's Jackie Chiles from Sienfeld!
Wyrmshadow 3 weeks ago
I wore out my VHS when this came on the first time.
Wyrmshadow 3 weeks ago
I always laught at how they get the ships confused at the last minute.
The Agripa is the one they're firing at, the Roanoke is the ship that the Churchill hit and destroyed.
x82ndODSTx 3 weeks ago
@x82ndODSTx Given how damaged B5 was by the end of the battle, the sensors could've been screwed up and got the enemy ships mixed up or something.....
girlgarde 5 days ago
@girlgarde Or you could blame it on Sherriden having a brain fart, though that wouldn't exactly inspire confidence if you found out your leader suddenly couldn't think straight mid-battle.
ScreamingTc 4 days ago
Cripes that's SECEDED from Earth not Succeeded. To Secede in a Secession is to Separate from another, to Succeed in a Succession is to Take Over After another. Secessionists are in the former and Successors are in the latter.
RingSight91 1 month ago
great scene. still dont really get why clark's ships decided to fight in proximity of Babylon 5. Couldnt they just lob missiles at it all day while sitting back outside of its energy grid or whatever.
2009worstyearever 1 month ago
@2009worstyearever They did not want to destroy B5, with all the foreign ambassadors on it they would have just about pissed off every race they know.
And with the other ships hugging B5 they had to move in. P.S those cannons they show that look like they are popping stuff out are the missile countermeasures the fighters intercept and destroy missiles too.
Baseshocks 1 week ago
Why does Sheridan have to get command info from multiple stations on the command deck? He walks from station to station all through this scene. Seems awfully inefficient. But then again, it could be that JMS took as much care with his blocking as his did in selecting those god awful background actors.
Bleh.
BloodofPatriots 2 months ago
what befuddles me about this fight is that the ship that explodes at the end says "Agrippa." on the side, yet Sheridan calls it "Roanoke"
MsCreepyChan 2 months ago
@MsCreepyChan Different ship. B5 hits Roanoke, but the Apollo (I think it was) hits the Agrippa.
Jallorn 2 months ago
@MsCreepyChan Glad somebody else notices... there are actually many little continuity errors in this episode!
ChaseWilliams 2 months ago
i have wondered how they could separate the fighters from one another.
MultiKronblom 3 months ago
@MultiKronblom they added some kind of identification program in the computer systems of the fighters so they know who is who. they say it several times during the series.
Baseshocks 3 months ago
@Baseshocks I see I must have missed that, thank you.
MultiKronblom 3 months ago
@MultiKronblom It's an identification system called Friend or Foe (IFF). The real-life military uses the same thing.
raf7550 2 months ago
At the moment it feels like the whole world is entering it's "Severed Dreams" stage. May God protect us all.
Paultootall1971 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Paultootall1971 "At the moment it feels like the whole world is entering it's "Severed Dreams" stage. May God protect us all."
Please keep your god to yourself and don't bug us with it.
mitrooper 1 month ago
- bring us close in for the enemy
- how close?
- right down their throats
best
lines
ever
^^
JheakrynaKyAlur 4 months ago 4
I really like the CGI in b5... Maybe it's just nostalgia but I think it still holds up!
coolstream1 6 months ago
I was working at a place that had access to network downloads and a large TV screen. So, I got up one Sunday morning, came into work and saw Severed Dreams for the first time with the best video and surround sound available at the time. It completely blew me away and I spent the rest of the week until the episode showed on TV raving about it to my friends. I still think it is the single greatest sci-fi moment on TV EVER!
Ranillon 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"This is Captain Dexter Smith of the Earth Alliance destroyer Agrippa to Babylon 5 & renegade ships.You are ordered to surrender your commands & prepare to be boarded."
Major Ryan-"Launch fighters"
Captain Smith-"This is your only warning.If you do not surrender,we'll be forced to initiate deadly force."
Tbone222882 6 months ago
I love this episode! For once in a series, they make Earth seem like the bad guys!
starflame34 6 months ago
One of my personal favorite battles throughout the series...it's a real shame that the only other cuts of it currently on youtube are just another excuse to play music so loud that you can't here the best lines...Sometimes I actually want to hear Delenn saying "If you value your lives, be somewhere else!" to end hostilities!!!!
SwordlordRoy 6 months ago
Fantastic series, excelent scene, but very low quality in the encoding :( B5 deserves better
pecm 7 months ago
RIP B5
jboweruk 7 months ago
Did the enemy ships really think they stood a chance? It was their two ships against another 2 ships and Babylon 5. Who commands these ships, kamikaze pilots?
wuebboltc 8 months ago
@wuebboltc They had 2 or 3 Hyperion class Cruisers with them so I guess they thought they stood a chance PLUS they may not have known about the Churchill being there.....
girlgarde 8 months ago
looked like ivanova's starfury was destroyed in the collision....
timmyb1567 8 months ago
@timmyb1567 It was. In the full version of the episode you see her starfury is out of control and she has to eject.
ImperialAtlantis 7 months ago
"Bring us in closer to the enemy!
"How Close?"
"Right down there throats"
Babylon 5 at its epic best.
CultBoy1984 8 months ago
Only Battlestar Galactica has come anywhere near this leave of CGI greatness, and that has had 10 years of advancements in it bag of tricks. Babylon 5 battles are still the best in Sci-fi.
nicoj84 8 months ago
what happened to the hyperion class ships??? they dont show them in the battles.
jutau 8 months ago
@jutau That's the problem with having only a limited time per episode - sometimes they have to cut out scenes we'd all like to see. But you could be guaranteed that the reason the Churchill suffered such horrific damage is that effectively it was four capital ships against two. None of the Clarke loyal ships turned their main guns on B5 because they wanted to take her intact. From what'. The Churchill probably faced off against the two hyperions and the Roanoke.
ScreamingTc 8 months ago 9
@ScreamingTc on the nail.
BlastEMFF 4 months ago
@jutau Can not imagine there were many left after the minbari's holy war.
Mechkiller1982 4 months ago
Looks like 2 people had their dreams severed. Or died on the Roanoke. :P
MythologicalForce1 10 months ago
Ok, been watching this episode at home. When the Churchill rams itself into the Roanoke, it doesn't damage it greatly? Because that's what Babylon5 attacks. Then the Alexander attacks the Agrippa and damages it, apparently, a little bit. Now, my question is this... wasn't the Roanoke already pretty much destroyed before Babylon 5 went blasting away? Or did the Alexander damage it more heavily? That's what confuses me is what looks like a switch of ships.
Gruumsh4 11 months ago
@Gruumsh4 Yeah they kinda goofed up there. The Agrippa was supposed to be the one rammed by the Churchill. Just an oversight I guess.
MaliciousRelax 10 months ago
Whatever happened to the smaller earth destroyers that were sent in with the invasion force? Didn't even show them i nthe battle.
ALBANO2684 1 year ago
@ALBANO2684 The two Hyperions probably backed off. I know I wouldn't want to get between four angry Omega class destroyers... :)
But, yes, they did disappear completely. Maybe an FX oversight, or maybe they got fragged early on, and they just didn't show it.
tyranusfan 1 year ago
Comment removed
terminsane 1 year ago
I miss this show, I really do, perhaps one of the best tv series ever made!
k1701e 1 year ago
@k1701e They're pretty easy to pick up off of Amazon for cheap, although that does mean it depends on where you live. Well worth picking up the boxset, although I'd avoid Legend of the Rangers, and A Call To Arms if I were you.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc I have the entire 5 season box set, Crusade the movies set, Legend of the Rangers ;) and Lost Tales. LOTR and ACTA aint so bad. I like ACTA for the soundtrack,(cool mix of Industrial,asian instruments, this set the trend for BSG). LOTR was ok, like certain other series, was never given a damn chance to grow and evolve(Crusade,Firefly,Odyessy 5,Caprica).
LOTR and Lost Tales, were not up to standard,I, at the time and still today am just glad to get more B5!
k1701e 1 year ago
@k1701e The Lockley Lost Tales was pants, but the Sherriden one wasn't that bad. Plus it did have the epic scene of the Centauri vs the two Earth Force Warlocks. The one thing Babylon 5 consistently managed to do, with the exception of A Call To Arms, is frame the battles beautifully. I also dislike ACTA for the same reason you like it, I just prefer Christopher Franke's ability to bring emotion to a scene.
I would like to see more of the B5 universe, but it needs an epic story to match.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc I hear what you say, ACTA was a different style of B5, a test and a segue into Crusade, very experimental. C. Franke's music is soo awesome, distinct.IMHO put him with great tv and movie composers such as Goldsmith,Horner, Poledoris,Williams and most recently Bear Mccreary. So gotta complete the Episodic soundtrack collection!
Would be nice to get a new series or a big screen movie,
k1701e 1 year ago
This reminds me of the Pegasus kamikaze run from BSG
JimbobHarrigan1984 1 year ago
@JimbobHarrigan1984 The difference with the Pegasus is that no one died doing it. The crew of the Churchill on the other hand suffered a much more horrific fate - spaced, burns and asphyxiation as the fires on board ate up the oxygen supplies. From the sounds of it they were cut off from the escape pods. Maybe a few lucky survivors would have been pulled from compartments within the ship. It's probably what partly played into Hiroshi's decision to ram the Roanoke.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago 15
@ScreamingTc Is the Roanoke the same ship that was destroyed at the end of this video, that Sheridan offered to save the crew from or is that a different Clark loyal ship?
michaelhviper 9 months ago
@michaelhviper Actually it's a scripting mistake..or a rendering mistake. Can't remember which off the top of my head. The Roanoke was rammed by the Churchill and it's the Agrippa that suffers the internal explosions at the end. There's one other CGI related mistake in the episode....if you can spot it I'll give you a free cookie. :)
ScreamingTc 8 months ago
@ScreamingTc Does it have to do with the fact that we don't see any of the Hyperion class vessels fighting? the other thing I wanted to say is that the Agrippa kinda looks intact maybe the crew of Babylon 5 were able to salvage from the wreck.
michaelhviper 8 months ago
@michaelhviper The only reason you don't see the Hyperions fighting is due to running time. No, the other CGI mistake is the early strafing run by the Starfuries on the Churchill, which then cuts to the bridge of the Alexander shaking from the hit.
ScreamingTc 8 months ago
@ScreamingTc Ya I see it now to bad I didn't notice it sooner. But thei mis a great Sci Fi battle, this is one of the one I remember the most from Babylon 5.
michaelhviper 8 months ago
@gasdfw5 Star Trek ship-to-ship combat is interesting, but the deflector shields on each ship absorb much, if not all of the damage. Occassionaly the shields will fail and the ship(s) will take some sort of damage, but it is nothing like the battles in Babylon 5. B5 battles cause major, sometimes horrendous, damage between the dueling vessels. Much like one would see when two World War 2 era battleships went toe to toe.
AlbertaWildman 1 year ago
Just love the Omega-class Destroyer design :)
TheBlackSpider82 1 year ago
@TheBlackSpider82 I think the Earth Alliance ships were an homage to the CCCP Alexi Leonov , from 2010.
proadmin1 1 year ago
@proadmin1 That is indeed true, although originally the plan was to give the Omega a gimbal based engine which could move independently of the ships direction, due to the fact that the rotating section would have caused the ship to move out of control with a normal engine design. It had to be binned though, and physics partly ignored due to the design constraints posed by early CGI...that and most people wouldn't know that the rotating section would effect normal movement.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
Easily the best space battle ever.
bigtruckseriesreview 1 year ago
This episode still gives me goosebumps even though it's been so many years since I first saw it. Why can't more tv be like this?
Darkmind1970 1 year ago
@Darkmind1970
watching the Thunderbolt spin out of control and plummet towards the station makes my brain shudder.
bigtruckseriesreview 1 year ago
anyone noticed that the ship in 1:08 getting hit is the churchill?
But that's hiroshis ship, that crashes into the roanoke - and yet they show the bridge of the alexander, with that male captain (forgot his name)
harch i love these mistakes ;)
JheakrynaKyAlur 1 year ago
it's funny...
he wants fire solution for roanoke, but destroys the agrippa ;)
roanoke is rammed by the churchill...
in german he wants the fire solution for agrippa, and destroys the agrippa ^^
funny mistake
JheakrynaKyAlur 1 year ago
you gotta love this crappy CGi (by nowadays standards of course ;) ) but back in 1995 it was pure awesomeness and win
and i love the series!
can't help but to watch it once or twice a year on DVD ;D
JheakrynaKyAlur 1 year ago
@JheakrynaKyAlur Crappy CGI indeed, yet theres still something about the B5 battles (at least, season 3+) that I still find cool/interesting.
giantrobots1122 1 year ago 2
@giantrobots1122
hehe yeah
i just watch the whole series again on DVD ^^
and i love it.
i love the dialogues from G'kar and Londo (especially that elevatorscene)
and such stuff.
but yeah, the battles look crappy indeed, but the tension they produce before throwing you into action, makes that totally tolerable ;)
i love em
JheakrynaKyAlur 1 year ago
Always wondered what happened to the Clark-loyal Hyperion-class Heavy Cruisers...assumed they were destroyed but we didn't get to see.
And having watched Star Trek:TNG for years...was nice to see a proper space battle.
TheBlackSpider82 1 year ago
I always assumed they account for the horrific damage the Churchill takes. It would have been 2 omega destroyers vs the 2 omegas and 2 hyperions. I doubt the omegas wouldn't want to engage B5 with their heavy weaponry for fear of the damage they'd cause - remember they're there to capture and not destroy the station. The capital ships would have largely ignored B5 and gone for each other. So off screen the Churchill and starfuries take out the 2 cruisers and held the other omega at bay.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
0:30 Those Destroyers sound awesome.
TheBlackSpider82 1 year ago
I loved it when TV had better stuff than what I paid for on big screen.
darkwhitedirewolf 1 year ago
I believe some sci-fi shows handwaved the sound in space as pre-recorded sounds being played aboard the various ships and fighters.
giantrobots1122 1 year ago 2
the small ships remind me of star wars
NuCl3aRXAce 1 year ago
Love how stuff makes sound in space..lol SO realistic..ehehhe
KirbSleep 1 year ago
@KirbSleep There's no many shows that don't use sound in space - Firfly being one of the few that had totally silent space scenes.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc The word you are looking for with this whole "sound in space" thing is "Executive Meddling."
Krapenhoeffer 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc Sound in space is for the audience, characters don't react to the sounds so you assume there isn't any sound, it just has sound for our benefit.
It's much like naration, none of the other characters can hear it, but we, as the audience are given insight into it.
Sometimes, some shows in certain scenes, (Babylon 5: Thirdspace did this, as did Star Trek XI) if a character is out in space, there will be little to no sound.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion there would be no sound at all
ALBANO2684 1 year ago
@ALBANO2684 Yes there would be, because he's wearing a helmet, he would hear the sound of his own breathing within said helmet, as well as beeps from the suit's interface which would have a speaker inside said helmet.
Perion 1 year ago
@KirbSleep JMS made a point to use sound for space battles, merely because everyone is used to hearing fight scenes and find it disturbing to not hear anything.
If you watch the episode "A View From the Gallery" (season 5, episode 4) you'll notice the space battles outside the station hadn't any sound.
Gallowell 1 year ago
@KirbSleep meh would be really boring to have silent space scenes
warstomper 1 year ago
I'm sorry, but that acting is just stale and rigid. The Cgi looks good for the time but when they switch to the actors it really kills the tension they're going for.
BaneGrievver 1 year ago
Man those destroyers can cause some damage. I love the roar that the red laser weapon made. (Yeah yeah, no sound in space. blah blah blah)
ptdnet 1 year ago 3
@ptdnet I think we can forgive most Tv shows that fallacy. We don't live in a vacuum, and are thus used to hearing things go "KABOOM!", and of course it means we associate certain sounds with certain out comes.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
In Thirdspace we see Sheridan in a spacesuit going through a battle zone, there is no sound except for his breathing.
Perion 1 year ago
@ptdnet They wouldn't be worthy of the name "destroyers" if they didn't cause much damage, would they?
But the point you made about no sound in space and ScreamingTc's reply, the creaot (JMS) incorporated that into a lot of episodes, most notably "A View From the Gallery" (Season 5) where there was a massive battle but no sound effects were used. There's also an instance of it in the movie "ThirdSpace" (if you did not know any of this)
gribae 1 year ago
@ptdnet Agreed. The sound made by the main forward X-Ray Laser cannons does sound neat. It sounds alot like a high speed saw, like the kind used for cutting stone. I used one at a job years ago & upon firing it up I noticed that the sounds were similar.
AlbertaWildman 1 year ago
Severed Dreams, No Surrender No Retreat, & Endgame have THE best battles of all time, in my opinion.
@ 0:31, when the destroyers start slugging away at each other, you know that its going to be a costly battle. But the thing that have I always admired about this series is that they showed that fighters (small attack craft) can do wicked damage to even the most impressive battlecruiser. That is something that always seemed to be left out of Star Trek.
AlbertaWildman 1 year ago
@AlbertaWildman sometimes I question why they even use caps. When a fighter dies, you lose 1 life, when a cap dies, you lose hundreds. And let's say 250 fighters are (I guess) a lot stronger then 1 capitalship.
But then again, fighters can't travel very far.
And, fighter only battles look a lot less interesting then a battle with caps :P
Soldierlozer 1 year ago 2
LOL, agreed.
Dogfights do not have the same flair that ship to ship combat does.
AlbertaWildman 1 year ago
looooove it
Zadiel82 1 year ago
STARSHIP PORN! There is nothing quite like it.
dauntless111 1 year ago
As much as I love the Hiroshi moment. It's really the dead and dying Narn, Security Force, and Marines that gets to me. The action outside of Babylon 5 is summed up emotionally with the blood that now flows across her decks.
herrzimm 2 years ago 2
Hiroshi making the most of her dying ship's last moments is one of the finer moments of Bab5. If she was going down, she was damned sure going to take out one of the Clark-loyal destroyers with her The other captain's (the one calling Hiroshi at the last moment) reaction once he realizes what Hiroshi intends... is heartrending...
HaystackCaldoon 2 years ago 25
@HaystackCaldoon
Hiroshi is a good example of one of the things that made this show so great, so many awesome minor characters that actually made a difference in the episodes they were in. Her time on the show was short, but she made on hell of an impression,
Scioneer 1 year ago 2
@HaystackCaldoon Well said.
KnightInExile7 1 year ago
@HaystackCaldoon Major Ryan, the one you are thinking of, who calls out to Capt. Hiroshi
Gallowell 1 year ago
@HaystackCaldoon That whole scene, from the moment you get to see the heavily damaged Churchill, till the moment it rams into the Roanoke, pretty much remains one of my favourite moments of any sci-fi. The emotional impact is such that I got goosebumps the first time I watched it, and still feel the heart strings tug even after the umpteenth time. Something I could never feel with the likes of Star Trek.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago 6
@HaystackCaldoon Yeah. It was a sad scene to see the Churchill destroyed taking out one the Pro-Clark destroyers. It helped to turn the tide of the battle in the good guys favor..... That scene made me angry at Clark and the other anti-alien hate mongers on Earth for causing this tragedy to occur....
girlgarde 8 months ago
Best. Episode. Ever.
LazarusRemains 2 years ago
@LazarusRemains
humans killing humans?
hezbollah95818 2 years ago
I think it's more to do with the fact that it's a pivotal episode in the series, and one of the most emotionally charged of the series. This is the stand against the darkness and corruption that had spread back in Earth Gov.
The fact it is man against man underlines the seriousness of the situation, and ties a viewer into it emotionally. It's no longer some random alien race the characters are fighting, but their own people, in what turns out to be a very close, intense and desperate battle.
ScreamingTc 2 years ago
@ScreamingTc
what was the episode called?
hezbollah95818 2 years ago
Severed Dreams.
ScreamingTc 2 years ago
@ScreamingTc
I miss this show.
USN1985 1 year ago
@USN1985 It's still on from time to time, but it tends to relagated to obscure time slots. It suffers from being ahead of it's time and now being dated, at least with Fx. It's ironic really seeming the praise that the new BSG got heaped upon it, that Babylon 5 never achieved the same cult status or popularity. I can't imagine a remake anytime soon, at least one that keeps to the same spirit and plot line as the original show.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc
Ugh, I liked the new BSG at first, but then it got rediculous.
USN1985 1 year ago
@USN1985 Tell me about it. It started falling apart during season 3. That's the problem when you try to write a show with no idea of how to get from A to B. You make it up as you go along, and then wonder why it starts to make less and less sense. By season 4 they pretty much gave up trying to make it all fit together, and the ending was pretty disapointing. Deux Ex Machina is a poor, poor excuse, and just shows a lack of imagination and cohesion from the script writers.
ScreamingTc 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc
Exactly. If they'd had it all thought out in advance it would've made much more sense in my opinion. They tried to make it too complicated and in-depth while throwing in twists at every turn. I finally lost interest. How did it end?
USN1985 1 year ago
@ScreamingTc We dont care.. Babylon 5 is still imho the TOP 1 space opera / sci-fi show , BSG came close but it falled apart in seasons 3.5/4 due to RDM being a full jackass ("its the characters stupid") B5 is the only "long" history with its prologue, chapters, end and epiloge wich works wonderfully , i renember when RDM said they were ending BSG in season 4 so they could end as they wanted and that S4 would be "one hell of a ride" .. well Ron you fail , B5 S4 was THE hell of a ride
sparrowlt 1 year ago
@sparrowlt And, that's why fans of the REAL BSG call him Ronald D. Moron.
What happens when you work for Rick Berman all those years.
williamskidfears 1 year ago
I d'no. For Crowning Moments of Awesome, I have to give it to Sheridan when answers his torturer (in a rather later episode) with "Every time I say... NO" .
HaystackCaldoon 2 years ago
This episode has one of the best CMOA's in the series:
Clark-loyalist Captain: "We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ships."
Delenn: "Why not? Only ONE human captain has ever survived battle with the Minbari fleet. HE is behind me. YOU are in front of me. If you value your lives, BE SOMEWHERE ELSE."
raf7550 2 years ago 3
That one's right up there with Ivanova's "I am Death incarnate" speech with me. :)
HaystackCaldoon 2 years ago
Thats the problem with star trek, it didnt tell a story, all it did is have episodes. Its only after they started to add plots expanding through other series did some of star trek episodes get good. Like during DS9 and the dominion war.
AmericanPoliceState 2 years ago 3
I watched all five seasons 2 yrs ago via netflix. What a great series. Only two tv movies I didn't see were River of Dreams and Call to Arms. B5 was everything Star Trek should've been.
Melville10 2 years ago 3
@Melville10 River of Souls and Legend of Rangers are mainly crap, A Call to arms is great.. it is pure B5 and it ties with season 5 (the white star based destroyers Sheridan said wanted to develop , the beginning of the anounced in season 4 Drakh War and it gives clues of the end of the Telepat war) and tied in with a potential contunuation (Crusade)
sparrowlt 1 year ago
I can recall watching this series (and this episode) in the late 1990s. When I first saw this, I was amazed at how well done the combat scenes were, for earlier CGI technology.
Babylon 5 quickly replaced Star Trek as my favorite. I bought all of the season sets on DVD when they first came out, & picked up the movies box set later on.
AlbertaWildman 2 years ago 38
@AlbertaWildman
Oh, it's the same for me!! Star Trek will have always have a place in my heart as my "first love", but Babylon 5 is my all time love now, above my other sci-fi faves like Farscape, Stargate, or BSG
silaku 2 years ago 3
@AlbertaWildman Considering Babylon 5 was the first ever television show to start using CGI instead of models for everything, they did a bloody good job.
Gallowell 1 year ago