Inside Story - Pakistan's Political Uncertainty- 26 Aug 08 - Part 2

[CriminalPress]

oh God, so off topic arguments! State must be separate from church; understand than and end this dumb conversation.

Anyways, I hope Pakistan stays democratic permanently, that way all the wounds have a chance of self healing. Dictatorship/Theocracy just ruins it. Peace.

[feareddead]

Oh and in that fucking up country called Saudi-fucking-Arabia, Women can't vote...actually fuck that, they don't even have a democratically elected government, they have...kings! Oh and, Rape victims are a disgrace there.

Just go visit Amnesty Intl. Website to learn about the great achievement of that filthy country..Very good system it has! the whole world should learn from it!...Even the most religious Muslims I know hate that piece of land, but you,...nope not you.

[Ahmedo1984]

Excactly that's why I said in the Beginning of the Discussion that there is nowhere in the world a 100% Sharia. Saudia Arabia has partialy Sharia to the level it suits the King. I hate The Saud leadership also but there is potential if the System changes. The First leader of Moslims after our Prophet was elected by the People and this is the System which is from Sharia but there is no Sharia nowhere in the world only Tiranic leaders.

[ballaamir]

That Fat man is very well spoken, he seems to be on top of the ball with everything going on over there. Good Job AJE for an excellent selection of panelist!!!

[Ahmedo1984]

No other law then the complete Sharia will bring stability and security to any Moslim country. No country has such a law yet since the good old times of the Khalifah.

[feareddead]

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot to tell you that after you time traveled from the fucking 8th century you arrived at the 20th century, not in the 9th century as you were planning to. So...Shut the FUCK up with your sha-fucking-ria.

[Ahmedo1984]

give me arguments why you think the law from 8th century is backward and the 20th century democratic law is superior? Not youre own opinion or what has been fed to you from youre corrupt dictatorship goverments which give you the thought you rule youre country but they do what ever they want.

[feareddead]

Its not about superiority, its about relativity. Its the constitution - eg. Canadian constitution - designed by law makers through democratic means that we all need to hold at the highest level. You don't agree with a law in constitution? Thats fine! contact your representative; or even better, work hard and become a law maker yourself.

You look at Sharia as a religious thing, while I (I'm Muslim by the way) look at it as a constitution of past that only made sense then, not now.

[Ahmedo1984]

So even if a law has flaws and does not have any effect it is better for you then a law which is perscribed by God in Torah,Bible and Qur'an only because you choose the people who make those laws. You are not a Moslim because Sharia is laws derived from Qur'an and Sunnah and thus are for ever until judgment day and apliccaple today even more than in the past. One who does not agree with laws from Qur'an and Sunnah(Prophetic teachings) denies parts of Qur'an and Sunnah thus is no Moslim period.

[feareddead]

Also, the fact that Sharia is rooted in religion makes it undesirable. See, after Prophet's time, this Sharia was supposed to be treated as a constitution so that it could be revised, criticized etc in a manner we treat our constitutions today. SADLY it took a religious form and became a monolith.

[Ahmedo1984]

So because Sharia is from God it is undesirable for you while manmade laws are desirable for you? I dont know if you know what a Moslim means. It means one who Submitts to the will of God. So you don't want to Submit to the will of God? Then you are no Moslim. The Laws made by Allah and Prophet can not be revised, criticized. You compare manmade laws to that of Allah? I feel very sorry for you. You must call youre self a Moslim because youre parents are.

[feareddead]

Look, again, I can't help but go back to my previous comment: your perception of what religion means today is out of touch. Your view of what religion is different from mine; for me a r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n is only ONLY a personal thing in todays world. Do not bring God into discussion because everyone has their own concept of God and you CANT POSSIBLY bring God into matter that decide a country's future.

[Ahmedo1984]

what is the difference between today and yesterday except technological and economical advantages? Did the world move to a different Galaxy. Are humans more just then before? Youre concept of today and yesterday is what you wear and use today in difference to yesterday. This is youre western argument we live in 21 century not 7th. only figures no meaning. in the past there was murder now there is murder in the past theft now theft rape, corruption, adultery you name it. Only technology differs.

[feareddead]

At the national and world lvl, God has no place. Sure we like to say God bless America God bless Pakistan and so on, but thats just rhetoric. Heres the problem, what will happen when you PROPOSE to people that "I'm gonna impliment this 'law' that, uh, God's approved and, well, its the correct law". Did it get approval from the law makers? Did it pass through the senate? What level of criticisms did it get? You see, thats why "God's law" will not be accepted, except by force... thats an idea!

[Ahmedo1984]

You are still talking about the systems which are created by man which have great flaws to approve of God's law. You can say what ever you want but it doesn't change the fact that it is the law of the creator and not implementing that law will have its implecations both in this world and the Hereafter. This is from a Islamic point of vieuw I don't expect you to agree nor do I ask youre opinion. Sharia is the most effective Law dealing with Criminality and Morality. End of Story.

[feareddead]

If Sharia from the beginning was treated as a constitution, ONLY THEN today it would have a form that will be consistent with todays world. It is still stuck in 8th century, immune to criticism.

[Ahmedo1984]

Sharia does change with time exept for the basic rules for Murder, Rape, Theft, Adultery, alchohol,drugs, gambling and other set basic rules. The rest is vieuwed from a religious and scientific point of vieuw such as sigarets. Before it was found that Sigaret was deadly it was only discouraged and not punishable. But when it was found to be deadly it was forbidden based on Qur'an and thus a Criminal act against youre self and fellow humans. But you can not and will not understand Sharia.

[feareddead]

Stop treating Sharia as "God's law", thats insulting everyone intelligence. All laws made in the past and made in the future were relevant to their time and were MAD MADE. Now, what about the idea that "Prophets were 'inspired' by God'? See we CAN'T go into that! That was their personality and their motivation to do things. What we need to worry about is todays law, the constitution of a country, and holding it at a highest level for THE COUNTRY; this does NOT conflict religion, thats personal.

[Ahmedo1984]

In the Qur'an Islam is mentioned as Deen(a way of life). And Sharia is God's law. If you don't except Qur'an and Sunnah and are no Moslim this is youre business but for Moslims this is God's law. It is not only law in general but also comandments which are personal such as Hygiene and manners. The rest is youre opinion. You want man made laws I want Sharia. To you youre way of life to me mine.

[feareddead]

You're way of life is a blissful dream that will probably never come true. You just don't realize that Sharia IS man made, was specifically for past times. The world isn't the same. Learn to live with it. You're right when you say "To you you're way of life to me mine." - it's time you start realizing that OTHER people think the same thing.

[feareddead]

A country's constitution is the lawful document. Keep your religious doctrine in your own ass and never try to shove it down other's throat. Lets see YOU try to implement the fucking Sharia if its so dear to you. I'm 100% confident that you, and anyone else, will fail. It's a failed policy, and thats evident throughout the fucking world. You're just blindly jerking off to sharia.

[feareddead]

What Education level have you had? I am just wondering? Are you in University? Because if you are, and still have these medieval thoughts, then thats fucked up buddy. Learn to live in todays world.

[Ahmedo1984]

Mediaval was a period which happened in Europe while Islamic nation was flurishing and the greatest nation and was in its golden age. Only after the religion and Sharia was neglected it fell apart. And you dare to call me mediaval while you youre self even don't have manners to talk without curse words. I am above that my religion forbids indecent talk. I live in todays world but you don't. You live in youre own blind reality. You still didn't give and argument.

[Ahmedo1984]

watch?v=zQFzAKCsnC0

[feareddead]

Oh Man, don't tell me you believe that Dajjal bullshit and Jesus coming back crap, do you??

[tgrigsby7]

Fuck Sharia. No, seriously: Sharia law is the most backwards, Stone Age crap any religion has ever come up with. Why not just say, "No law except Saddam's law will bring stability and security"? Saddam had great stability in his country before Bush lied to his country and the world to foment an invasion. Just be ruthless, brutal, savage in your dealings with people you don't like -- like Sharia law, and like Saddam's law.

[Ahmedo1984]

Tell me first why you say it is backward. The main point of having an opinion is backing youre opinion with arguments all I see is youre opinion on how you feel. And you must work for Bush making propaganda linking Sharia to Saddam. Saddam by no means had Sharia. He had elements of Sharia corrupted by laws which make him better. There has not been a correct Sharia for more then 200/300 or more years. I don't recognize any of youre argument in the Sharia law. So give me arguments not opinion.

[tgrigsby7]

I didn't say Saddam implemented Sharia; I was drawing a direct correlation between the vicious and brutal oppression of Saddam's law and Sharia. Are you going to tell me that Sharia doesn't completely oppress women, that Sharia penalties don't include stoning and mutilation?

[Ahmedo1984]

Just as Bush draw a direct correlation between Saddam and Nuclear weapons. Saddams law was no more brutal as the American world opressive dominance which has costed 1.5 million dead people 40 times more then Saddam ever killed. Sharia doesn't completely oppress woman. It gives them prohibitions and rights just as it does to Man. Sharia penalties Include Stoning for Adultery just as the Bible does(Leviticus 20:10+21:9). Sharia penalties theft by cutting of the Hand and Bible death(Joshua 7:15)

[feareddead]

Ahmedo1984, If a wife cheats, different type of people do WIDE range of things, depending on their relation w/ wife and their personality. However, ASSAULT, no matter in what form, should be a crime. Stoning is inconceivable. Its not a measured punishment. And, at least in Canada, it is unthinkable for it to be accepted.

[Ahmedo1984]

Look I don't say in Canada you have to follow Sharia. This is youre business what you do. But I say a 100% Islamic counry must implement Sharia. Now you can agree or disagree but this is youre opinion which you have a right to in Canada and I have my opinion. And Stoning is not only for wife cheating but also for Husband cheating. Thus there is no discrimination in the punishment.

[tgrigsby7]

I would beg to differ. Yes, you stone for adultery, but adultery is applied in cases of rape to women only. Why? Why the completely moronic requirement that a women must find 5 male witnesses to a rape in order to have it classified as rape and to avoid being charged with adultery and stoned to death? You seem reasonably intelligent. Are you saying you agree with that application of the law?

[Ahmedo1984]

Are you going to teach me about my religion? Comon be smart. I have said before that There is no 100% Sharia law in the world now. Partialy laws maybe and this is because the goverments Tiranic leaderships. The True Sharia law command stoning for Adultery both to Men and Woman. And Rape meanse death penalty for the raper. Now a woman is ordered not to travel without Husband or a relative male for Protection when she goes against that law and She is raped she is partialy responsible for.....

[Ahmedo1984]

....breaking the law by traveling alone. Now the guy will be put to death for Rape if proven and if not He will get wiplashes and Prison for fornication outside of Marriage and the Woman will face the same And the withnesses are 2 male or 4 female or 1 male and 2 female. And if one of the witnesses lies all of the witnesses face 100 wiplashes. If the laws are followed correctly there is no chance for Rape. When abided by Law the Chance to be raped is one in Billion so I agree with the aplication

[feareddead]

As far as stealing is concerned, it depends on what you stole, how you stole, etc. If criminal laws were as simple as to cut hands, we will not achieve a stable society here, there will be a huge backlash. You can't just MAKE! laws.

This again points towards your ignorance of the society we live in; its especially shameful if you live in Canada or the U.S. and have these thoughts.

[Ahmedo1984]

As far as steeling and the mutilation of the Hand is concerned there is a minimum of according to our Prophet(pbuh) the equality of a armord coat in those times. Lets say starting from 2000$ or something in that area of know. Where as people who need money are ordered to ask for a handout and the believers are ordered to support those in need by sharing their welth to make sure people are not in need to comit theft except for luxery means.

[feareddead]

Oh and don't bring up Bible; if those laws were the constitution, everything would be fucked up.

[Ahmedo1984]

I agree some laws of Bible don't comply with the world of now and are even to harsh from Sharia point of vieuw but some of the laws are implemented true the lifetime of Human beings and are very effective in preventing criminality. Sharia is not to punish Criminals but to prevent criminality by harsh punishments and it works. In Saudi Arabia where Sharia is implemented Criminality records are one of the lowest in the world and people can leave their belongings outside without fear of theft.

[tgrigsby7]

Since Leviticus was written (roughly 1500 BC?), our laws and methods for handling criminals include prisons, which would not have been available to nomadic tribes, and a variety of rehabilitation programs, unheard of until recent times. Sharia was originally created during a harsh and primitive age, and continues to be espoused by people who prefer mutilation and brutal, painful death to more humane methods of preserving life, teaching civil responsibility, and restoring dignity.

[Ahmedo1984]

So treating a Murderer kindly is Civilized? Rewarding a thief is civilized?

Letting Rapers know they can get away with raping is civilized? In Islam we believe in preserving the live of the innocent, the welth of the victim and the dignity of the woman who is raped and not to reward Criminals for their behaviour. Criminals must be handeld harshly and especialy when they are well aware of the concequences of their actions. If a murderer knows he will be put to deat when murdering he deserves it

[feareddead]

try to come up with a better answer you fucking ignorant tgrigsby7

[tgrigsby7]

piss off you ignorant, stone age, goat molester, feareddead.

[feareddead]

a "goat molester? If anything it should your wife, not a GOAT! what are you doing?

[tgrigsby7]

Ah, culture clash.  Feareddead, in the U.S., we don't marry goats. Perhaps you do, in which case I retract my statement about you *molesting* goats. Of course this puts you further back than the stone age -- by then humanity had figured out that goats weren't nearly as much fun as real women. But you wouldn't know anything about that would you.

(Yawn)

Well, that was fun, if pointless. Go home, feareddead. Your wife needs feeding.

[Euroheat0022]

People need to stop complaining about bush and U. S. politics. While i'm no fan of Bush people need to worry about their own problems and stop looking for the government to do everything for them.

[88a]

Preeeety Pakistani girl :)

Pakistan becoming the greatest victim of fucking American so-called War on Terror.

[EsotericDesi]

I cannot believe that Pakis have the nerve to compare shithole like Pakistan with the world's largest democracy, India... Two nations are worlds apart... and will forever be... Indians look to the future... Pakis still use a 5th Century book as their "Constitution."

[tarazkazakh]

Yes worlds largest democracy + high malnutrition + corruption + extremism + police atrocities + illiteracy + ....

How many Indian's even know abt our country's constitution ?

[dakhan]

typical dark and hairy indian response to the 'shuperpowar' india and its comparison to pakistan. ok, indian, india is the next china. yeah, go to your AIDS infested rathole. faggot.

[supersikh2008]

I think this is a hangover from Cold war days when US support made pakis feel they could compete with India. that era has long gone. soon this "Failed State" will cease to exist and Jinnah will be recognized as a psychotic villain whose demands led to millions of deaths. Even his only Daughter could see his Idiocy and decided to stay in India after partition. and to his embarrassment none of the Indian Muslims lined up to get a visa for Pakistan after 1947.

[BagOfEyebrows]

believe me, you don't want 'sustained democracy' in Pakistan - why my country (USA) has been 'spreading' democracy, when our nation isn't even a democracy itself ('democracy' isn't even in our state or federal constitutions!) and that other nations now seek to have their form of political structure be that very unstable, illogical and 'mob rule' form of government... it's alarming.

[88a]

U are very right my friend! Can anyone impeach BUSH?