here's a thought.. build your system with no holes in the plates.. use a spacer frame that each plate fits into that insulates from the other. cut channels into the top and bottom of the frame for the electrolyte to enter in and for the hydroxy to exit out of. the end panels you would use your normal hose barbs to port the gas out and the electrolyte in..
stop screwing around with 12V systems. build the 60-65 plate series dry cell with 120VDC. use a nickel super alloy material and watch your gas production hit 20+ LPM. if you insist on using 12V, your need to increase your surface area. use 36" x 8" strips in a tower configuration.
Trust me, It is in the future. This is simply effeciency testing on different designs. It is much less expensive to perfect designs with a small 12 volt cell than a large 65 plate cell. A 65 plate cell of this design with nano coated plates would be in excess of 40 lpm.
I strongly disagree with a normal dry cell design. Holes in the plates are a drastic design flaw. I am now building a dry cell style cell with no holes in the plates at all. Yes, a 12 volt design. Just to test.
DIY Its work DoublerVoltage In12V to35V, out 24Vto 76V circuit fr. ElecFree com "search 12v to 24v dc to dc converter IC 40106, change BYWS1P1-200 to FT2000G n all the Capacitor into higher value, work very well together with PWM G Forrest Cook, all MosFeT using IRF250 w/Big Heat sink , 30Amp Max. for any HHO Cell thks :)) NO MORE LImited 12V fr. your Car Battery
What electrical device are you powering your cells from ? You do not show in your video the device that is sending power to your cells. I am using sodium hydroxide on my three-inch length five pipes and bolts assembly all stainless steel producing three liters per minute using high-voltage from an arc welding machine on a bench test.
I am just using two 6 volt golf cart batteries in series and 3 battery chargers as a power source. The battery chargers are the high amp variety. I would like to have a high amp variable voltage DC power supply but that is down the road as they cost a bundle.
I have had a crappy pressure gauge leak gas just like your thermometer did. Its a pain in the ass to deal with leaks so i cut out as many gauges as i can from my system. I am hoping you make a video of the nano cell when you do an examination of it, after its removed from the acrylic casing. The info you are providing is very usefull. Each failure has a lesson which makes the next project twice as good. Looking forward to future videos. Stay Safe.
Sorry, I already tore down the cells. I should have made a video but did not. I had acrylic spacers in between the plates attached to the backing plates with weld on 3. What happened is that under the high heat I was running it at they all came loose. This allowed wlwctrolite to travel around the plates and caused massive current leakage similar to a wet cell. I was running at 175 or so at the stainless outlet fitting. I would guess probably over 200 at the plates.
I guess I pushed too hard. This design worked GREAT until I kept over amping it to run up the heat. As the cell heated up effeciency's kept increasing. The gas stayed in the 70"s because of the double bubblers so I kept pushing. I would increase the amps to around 200 by putting the chargers on Start mode for a couple minutes at a time. I am rebuilding now without any acrylic welding at all.
That was my suspition when I saw your cells. I was expecting current leakage when you said you couldn't find any other leaks. Can't wait to see the next generation nano cell. Your one of my favourite channels to watch. Keep it up!
I ran many many tests in the 7's with this exact set up until the cell temp hit 170 or so. Then the MMW dropped like a rock. All tests had gas temps in the 70's. Switching the bubblers did that. The gas had to run through first the hor bubbler than a cold bubbler. That is the reason for the cooler gas temps.
this aint no failure at all ... I learned quite a bit from your test runs with these two devices ... any experiment where I learn some new tricks is worth while as far as I am concerned ... thanks for this valuable series of videos ... everyone following your work owes you debt of gratitude for pushing the envelope so far ...
Thanks SSC, I pushed a little two far with this test. As the cell heated up the results were just getting better and better. This design is good up until about 150 degrees. The nano cell alone was in the 7's all the time until the device hit 170 or so. Acrylic is supposed to be good up to 200 degrees. Obviously the seams are not. All the spacers deviding the plates came loose. That is when the effeciency went down. I was going to do a video at 175 but the cell did not oblige.
Maybe the next one you could get rid of the excess elite around the plate chamber, the fit inlet hose directly to the bottom of the chamber, it would not let heat transfer to the rest of the elite, and promote a radiator effect by keeping elite off plates a shorter time, increase flow, and a little back pressure. just throwing a few ideas at you. Gary
The next one will not be acrylic. During this last test run I have proven many things to myself. I wish I would have had the camera running the entire time so I had the results on video. Sadly I did not. I felt that the acrylic would take up to 200 degrees with no issue. The acrylic did but the seams did not. Probably an issue of different expansion rates of acrylic and steel. At 170 or so she came apart inside. One thing for sure. NO holes in the steel.
Sorry, No the damage is done because of the high heat I ran them at. The hundreds of tests I ran on them before the failure (sorry no video) proved to me again that strong e-lite concentrations work best. The tests were all over 7 MMW except the tests of the stainless cell. Resistance is our enemy. More conductive water = less resistance. That I am convinced of. High temps lower the resistance of the e-lite even more. The cell will be rebuilt using heat resistant materials.
I think you have proved that the basic idea of your design works. That is a very important step forward Larry. Maybe you should consider to combine both designs, I mean a dry cell with some sort of manifolds for both the inlet and the outlet that you can add after the gaskets have settled in. But this idea can only work when you use more layers of gaskets, instead of just one thick layer. Also separate in and outlet tubes for each plate gap crossed my mind, if I only had the money. 5* YEAH:-)
Yes, I already have a design in mind. In fact I am going to use my origional idea. I decided to go this way so I could see in and get an idea what was happening. The huge downside to this design is that there is no way to take it apart. If a problem arises they must be destroyed. The next design will be a hybrid design that can be disassembled and reasembled but still have no holes. It will also be able to handle all the heat I want to through at it. It is just going to be spendy.
I have never once said that I was even attempting to run a vehicle down the road on 100% HHO nor would I ever say that. You could never get back all the power out that you put in.
Fiat is going to learn American car makers how to build small, comfortable, affordable, reliable cars, that's literately what the dutch news makers told us in the Netherlands. But what I try to say is that when you would apply this to a small engine the results are far better, and then again we are a step closer. And if we take one step at a time then eventually we will get to a point that it all makes sense, Two years ago I was watching a fancy water heater, now I see a working device.
Hmmm I didn't mean to look arrogant, and I also want to mention the MYT engine. Sunlight and water never run up, and if it does then it doesn't matter anymore. Batteries are another way to hook you up to something different then to what you are hooked up to at this point.. Don't judge before you tried it all, and there is a lot that is left over that is worth to try.
it is an emotional rollercoaster. and the more effort you put in the bigger the breakis in your heart.the best thing about it though larry is there is absolutly nothing to stop you from going forward with this . as ray krok says.....everyday i go to work and look for problems to solve. this allows me to have the most effective restaurant model in the world......macdonalds! so if you see it from the perspective of one more step closer to how it needs to be then you can feel good about it.
That has been my approach from the beginning. Make one and find out what does not work well. Then attack each problem one at a time. It seems that everytime you overcome one problem you find another that you did not know existed before. That is progress.
Loosing your mmw's might be a good thing. If you find out what it is it may be the reason why most of use can't into those high mmw's and we can all fix our cells.
I am positive that it is current leakage. The higher the concentration of KOH the more conductive the water is. I have proven in the past that with a path for current jump stronger e-lite compounds the problem because the current jump path has less resistance. I have a new design in mind but need to order some PTFE and start there.
here's a thought.. build your system with no holes in the plates.. use a spacer frame that each plate fits into that insulates from the other. cut channels into the top and bottom of the frame for the electrolyte to enter in and for the hydroxy to exit out of. the end panels you would use your normal hose barbs to port the gas out and the electrolyte in..
altern8energy 2 years ago
Watch my last video. I already did that. I just need to solve the leaking issue.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Alter8energy
How much more of an increase in surface area can you get , than the nano-particle coating that Larrys using ? LOL
Watch the videos man
Davehho1 2 years ago
stop screwing around with 12V systems. build the 60-65 plate series dry cell with 120VDC. use a nickel super alloy material and watch your gas production hit 20+ LPM. if you insist on using 12V, your need to increase your surface area. use 36" x 8" strips in a tower configuration.
altern8energy 2 years ago
Trust me, It is in the future. This is simply effeciency testing on different designs. It is much less expensive to perfect designs with a small 12 volt cell than a large 65 plate cell. A 65 plate cell of this design with nano coated plates would be in excess of 40 lpm.
I strongly disagree with a normal dry cell design. Holes in the plates are a drastic design flaw. I am now building a dry cell style cell with no holes in the plates at all. Yes, a 12 volt design. Just to test.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Also, You need to rethink surface area when using a plate like these with this coating. Current density can be many many times higher.
Thanks for the comment
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
DIY Its work DoublerVoltage In12V to35V, out 24Vto 76V circuit fr. ElecFree com "search 12v to 24v dc to dc converter IC 40106, change BYWS1P1-200 to FT2000G n all the Capacitor into higher value, work very well together with PWM G Forrest Cook, all MosFeT using IRF250 w/Big Heat sink , 30Amp Max. for any HHO Cell thks :)) NO MORE LImited 12V fr. your Car Battery
Drdump1 2 years ago
Hey Larry
That also means that you can use smaller plates and maintain super output with increased wattage per sq in !
Good stuff !
Davehho1 2 years ago
You Are Doing a Great Job Larry.
What electrical device are you powering your cells from ? You do not show in your video the device that is sending power to your cells. I am using sodium hydroxide on my three-inch length five pipes and bolts assembly all stainless steel producing three liters per minute using high-voltage from an arc welding machine on a bench test.
Peter
pjckac1 2 years ago
I am just using two 6 volt golf cart batteries in series and 3 battery chargers as a power source. The battery chargers are the high amp variety. I would like to have a high amp variable voltage DC power supply but that is down the road as they cost a bundle.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Onward and upward ! Way to go Larry !
*anyone having trouble posting on u-tube ???
Davehho1 2 years ago
I have had a crappy pressure gauge leak gas just like your thermometer did. Its a pain in the ass to deal with leaks so i cut out as many gauges as i can from my system. I am hoping you make a video of the nano cell when you do an examination of it, after its removed from the acrylic casing. The info you are providing is very usefull. Each failure has a lesson which makes the next project twice as good. Looking forward to future videos. Stay Safe.
hhoball 2 years ago
Sorry, I already tore down the cells. I should have made a video but did not. I had acrylic spacers in between the plates attached to the backing plates with weld on 3. What happened is that under the high heat I was running it at they all came loose. This allowed wlwctrolite to travel around the plates and caused massive current leakage similar to a wet cell. I was running at 175 or so at the stainless outlet fitting. I would guess probably over 200 at the plates.
HHOPWR 2 years ago
I guess I pushed too hard. This design worked GREAT until I kept over amping it to run up the heat. As the cell heated up effeciency's kept increasing. The gas stayed in the 70"s because of the double bubblers so I kept pushing. I would increase the amps to around 200 by putting the chargers on Start mode for a couple minutes at a time. I am rebuilding now without any acrylic welding at all.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
That was my suspition when I saw your cells. I was expecting current leakage when you said you couldn't find any other leaks. Can't wait to see the next generation nano cell. Your one of my favourite channels to watch. Keep it up!
hhoball 2 years ago
Larry, thanks for keeping us posted on progress. Keep up the great work.
Rawbush
Rawbush 2 years ago
larry have you considered gas temps, from last you posted was nt your gas at 90isg degrees now at 75 . is that the discrepancy.
fantastic tests on the nano . alot af people took away plenty of knowledge. the bar has just been raised
BruteForcENGINEering 2 years ago
I ran many many tests in the 7's with this exact set up until the cell temp hit 170 or so. Then the MMW dropped like a rock. All tests had gas temps in the 70's. Switching the bubblers did that. The gas had to run through first the hor bubbler than a cold bubbler. That is the reason for the cooler gas temps.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
this aint no failure at all ... I learned quite a bit from your test runs with these two devices ... any experiment where I learn some new tricks is worth while as far as I am concerned ... thanks for this valuable series of videos ... everyone following your work owes you debt of gratitude for pushing the envelope so far ...
SmartScarecrow 2 years ago
Thanks SSC, I pushed a little two far with this test. As the cell heated up the results were just getting better and better. This design is good up until about 150 degrees. The nano cell alone was in the 7's all the time until the device hit 170 or so. Acrylic is supposed to be good up to 200 degrees. Obviously the seams are not. All the spacers deviding the plates came loose. That is when the effeciency went down. I was going to do a video at 175 but the cell did not oblige.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Bummer , always something.
Still man , cold gas and huge amounts of it, awsome.
tjgame2 2 years ago
Yea, good run Larry, all together...
Maybe the next one you could get rid of the excess elite around the plate chamber, the fit inlet hose directly to the bottom of the chamber, it would not let heat transfer to the rest of the elite, and promote a radiator effect by keeping elite off plates a shorter time, increase flow, and a little back pressure. just throwing a few ideas at you. Gary
llewgnal 2 years ago
The next one will not be acrylic. During this last test run I have proven many things to myself. I wish I would have had the camera running the entire time so I had the results on video. Sadly I did not. I felt that the acrylic would take up to 200 degrees with no issue. The acrylic did but the seams did not. Probably an issue of different expansion rates of acrylic and steel. At 170 or so she came apart inside. One thing for sure. NO holes in the steel.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Comment removed
llewgnal 2 years ago
is it worth re testing with weaker elyte before you rip them apart?
hhotechnology 2 years ago
Sorry, No the damage is done because of the high heat I ran them at. The hundreds of tests I ran on them before the failure (sorry no video) proved to me again that strong e-lite concentrations work best. The tests were all over 7 MMW except the tests of the stainless cell. Resistance is our enemy. More conductive water = less resistance. That I am convinced of. High temps lower the resistance of the e-lite even more. The cell will be rebuilt using heat resistant materials.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
I think you have proved that the basic idea of your design works. That is a very important step forward Larry. Maybe you should consider to combine both designs, I mean a dry cell with some sort of manifolds for both the inlet and the outlet that you can add after the gaskets have settled in. But this idea can only work when you use more layers of gaskets, instead of just one thick layer. Also separate in and outlet tubes for each plate gap crossed my mind, if I only had the money. 5* YEAH:-)
insAneTunA 2 years ago
Yes, I already have a design in mind. In fact I am going to use my origional idea. I decided to go this way so I could see in and get an idea what was happening. The huge downside to this design is that there is no way to take it apart. If a problem arises they must be destroyed. The next design will be a hybrid design that can be disassembled and reasembled but still have no holes. It will also be able to handle all the heat I want to through at it. It is just going to be spendy.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Perhaps the heat created a conductive path through the plastic "insulator"?
BoyntonStu
BTW At 7 MMW you would need 85 LPM for a 20 MPG car going at a constant 60 MPH in orer to replace gasoline and run 100% on HHO.
Boyntonstu 2 years ago
I have never once said that I was even attempting to run a vehicle down the road on 100% HHO nor would I ever say that. You could never get back all the power out that you put in.
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Fiat is going to learn American car makers how to build small, comfortable, affordable, reliable cars, that's literately what the dutch news makers told us in the Netherlands. But what I try to say is that when you would apply this to a small engine the results are far better, and then again we are a step closer. And if we take one step at a time then eventually we will get to a point that it all makes sense, Two years ago I was watching a fancy water heater, now I see a working device.
insAneTunA 2 years ago
Hmmm I didn't mean to look arrogant, and I also want to mention the MYT engine. Sunlight and water never run up, and if it does then it doesn't matter anymore. Batteries are another way to hook you up to something different then to what you are hooked up to at this point.. Don't judge before you tried it all, and there is a lot that is left over that is worth to try.
insAneTunA 2 years ago
We agree.
Unfortunately, many folks do not understand this basic premise.
HHO is therefore a means to improving the efficiency of our cars whill at the same time reducing the emissions.
If, HHO did nothing more than improving the idle efficiency, many milliions of gallons of gas could be saved.
For every minute your car idles, it wastes 1/2 mile of gas.
IOW If you turn off your engine at a 1 minute traffic light, you have gained 1/2 mile of range from your tank.
Boyntonstu 2 years ago
Larry,
Do you realize how much your work is inspiring?
Your previous 'failure' of having to ride your brakes at 5 LPM gave me an idea that may prove worthwhile.
Use the 5 LPM to idle without gas and you will save 1/2 mile for each minute of idling.
If it would be possible to switch off the fuel pump when slowing an when you are stopped, the HHO would increase MPG and reduce emissions.
HHO can replace gasoline 100% at idle.
I believe that Diesels use HHO for its benefit at idle.
Boyntonstu 2 years ago
See, you learned something new , again !
Run the nano cell all by its self. (if you can ) Skip the hoses and bubblers and see what you can see.
Good stuff Larry..
Davehho1 2 years ago
it is an emotional rollercoaster. and the more effort you put in the bigger the breakis in your heart.the best thing about it though larry is there is absolutly nothing to stop you from going forward with this . as ray krok says.....everyday i go to work and look for problems to solve. this allows me to have the most effective restaurant model in the world......macdonalds! so if you see it from the perspective of one more step closer to how it needs to be then you can feel good about it.
kissmyhho 2 years ago
That has been my approach from the beginning. Make one and find out what does not work well. Then attack each problem one at a time. It seems that everytime you overcome one problem you find another that you did not know existed before. That is progress.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Loosing your mmw's might be a good thing. If you find out what it is it may be the reason why most of use can't into those high mmw's and we can all fix our cells.
delvis11 2 years ago
Rest assured. I will share everything I find. Many working together will improve this technology.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Yeah those pesky leaks can mess things up ....
I came up with 5.67 mmw too thats low compared to ya other videos ..I wonder what the deal is with it , because that just dont make no sense ..
.but if you are getting current leakage that could be it ..
Look forward to your rebuild ..
jdcmusicman 2 years ago
I am positive that it is current leakage. The higher the concentration of KOH the more conductive the water is. I have proven in the past that with a path for current jump stronger e-lite compounds the problem because the current jump path has less resistance. I have a new design in mind but need to order some PTFE and start there.
Larry
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago