The god in the bible is himself evil. "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men,… “ Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children” Ezekiel 9:5-7
“Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.” Isaiah 13:15-18
“Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses” 1 Samuel 15:2-3
chirectomy, You assume that all of the terrible things that happen to humanity are undeserved. You also assume that humanity, in general, is innocent before God. What if humanity as a whole were guilty of the highest crime against God? Would He be unjust to punish them with terrible penalties? Why would He be guilty of evil? You, as most, think ill of the possibility of God's wrath because He extends grace so frequently. The full force of God's wrath is withheld for a time, for your sake.
Are you saying that innocent children never die in floods, famines or earthquakes? What about babies who get AIDS or other STDs from their parents? Perhaps you're saying that all humans are born guilty and deserving of eternal damnation in the next life and whatever suffering god inflicts on us in this one. If so, I must say this is one of the most evil doctrines in any religion since it devalues our own humanity so much that we excuse the death and suffering of children.
What is the definition of innocent? Do you decide? By what criterion does one measure innocence? If God exists, then He should be the judge of innocence or guilt. If humanity is a rebellious species, must God excuse their rebellion? What kind of leader/ruler does that? A ruler/sovereign must maintain authority over his/her subjects. You say,“I think all people are innocent from birth, therefore suffering endured by those innocent ones is unjust.”
The bible says,“All people are guilty from birth, therefore life itself is a gift of grace and underserved. If God chooses to take away grace, it is not unjust; it is the very definition of justice to give one what they are due.”
When god gets around to stopping evil, will he also go back and undo all evils that have already occurred? Dealing justice to evildoers in the future is not the same as preventing evil, because he allowed to evil acts to happen in the first place. Also, you make the same mistake as those who use the "free will" argument, focusing on evil done by human action and ignoring things like malaria, hurricanes, and drought, which would be god's fault. Will he also punish himself for those things?
As a responsible athiest i do not see it necessary to mock other peoples beliefs. This type of behaviour is supposed to be what we fight against. At least this guy makes an attempt to provide argument. I have met people unwilling to listen to anything i say about evolution let alone come up with some form of arugment against it.
I love how this guys tells us what god thinks -I love how he quickly dismisses all the pain and suffering in the world and gives the excuse "well god is god and he can do whatever he wants".
These kind of people frighten me because given the right conditions and with the right charlatan to manipulate their feeble minds -they'll commit genocide and atrocities and excuse them as "holy".
It's like watching a doG chase after it's tail. The "Wholly Buy Bull" has made a purebred religitard here! Wow! It's fascinating in a train wreck sort of way. Sad, but you can't look away.
This is what happens when you give up on knowledge and wanting to know the origins of everything, I'm glad humans didn't give up @ multiplication... 2x2= 'god did it' just doesn't sit right with me.
why the fuck would a perfect, inteligent being (A.K.A God) would need or want to create humans and the Universe? what would he win if we pray and follow his orders?... It makes no sense for me a God with a purpose for creation...
there are innumerable problems with religion, probably the greatest of which being its tendency to attempt to force others to comply with its belief system by imposing its own morality on others. belief in a religion is not inherently right or wrong, expecting others to believe it is problematic to say the least. you should never, NEVER try to argue a question of logic using religion. religion is not an acceptable answer to anything because it is its own reason.
there are plenty of other religions and they all believe they are the chosen ones. christianity does not have a market on virtue. there are plenty of good people around the world adhering to different faiths or none at all. a just god would not punish people who contribute to the well being of this world and its inhabitants for something as vain and trivial as belief in him. belief in doing good would be a higher priority than recognition. btw epicurus still owns you.
@JCake89 I believe in God (Christian) myself and have often thought about this. It seems a mission for us to basically spread the gospel and "recruit" believers.. however, I've often thought, "What about those people that have had no Christian influence and have no way of really choosing to believe in what I believe?" This is why I try not to judge people for differing religions... As I see it, people know in their hearts how to distinguish "right" from "wrong"... we should go from there.
if god is all powerful then he can stop bad from happening. if he is all knowing he knew people would do good and bad to begin with. and if he cares then he isnt all loving because he created us to suffer. with eternal reward and punishment dispensed arbitrarily based on blind faith, or rather gambling. the entire concept is sadistic. he created people for a contest which has no purpose other than deciding eternal punishment or reward based solely on a persons refusal to think logocally.
God(s) is(are) blissful, omnipotent and omniscient, but as Epicurus would say, he(she,they) do[es} not bother with humans. That much is obvious. My 2 day old nephew died of a heart defect despite many, many prayers. God did not answer. Why not? No intervention my friend, wake up.
Your God by your argument is Malevolent. He can fix the problem now but chooses not to. In which case the only reason to worship your god is out of fear of his wrath so what is the differnce bettween your God and the Devil.
Your God by your argument is Malevolent can can fix the problem now but chooses not to. In which case the only reason to worship your god is out of fear of his wrath in which case what is the differnce bettween your God and the Devil.
being balanced is about being in peace with everything whee u see all and feel alll without the weight of evil forces on the left or good forces on the right
Aleetheis, there is no God that comands us in MY opinion, we have free will, there r only one thing that u can real follow and that is EXPERIENCE, one must learn how to find his own way to happiness but always following a BALANCE between good and evil, and that does not mean doing 50% evil and 50% good it means avoiding personal rage and personal euphoria...
and the last thing, there is no evil without good, there is no good without evil, light gives a purpose to the existence of darkness, while darkness gives a purpose for the existence of light...they kill eachother, they give birth to each other...the only TRUE and REAL message from a God is.....PEACE and ETERNAL BALANCE are the only essence, the only core within God, that is what God wants us to learn and follow, forget about religions, it's all about Philosophy...
each person has his experiences and values, some think killing a killer is good others think otherwise...that is the true nature of god..Being able to acept circunstances, be them good or bad, being also strong to overcome ur own weakness and ur own limitations
friends...god is supose to be the center, the everything and nothing, alpha and omega....of course evil source is god, and good source is also god...ppl must learn that evil makes part of good and good makes part of evil...evil and good r definitly not OBJECTIVE...
so you won't be punished for your sins because jesus will take them away? WHAT? how convenient. That's too easy, i may as well do what i want, jesus will forgive me. What a load of shit, Take jesus out of the equation if you want some credibility.
I wonder what will GOD say about us talking about him. after all epicurus is not all knowing yet he talks like hes a god or something. so smart gets stupid. thumbs up??
Better pay the mob boss or something bad will happen to you.
Would just have loved to hear the conversation.
"
Hey son... I f^cked up with the rules for going to hell so now ordinary folks get to be tortured for ever just for being born. But I think I have a solution.... You go down their and live as a man and let you self be tortured and killed.... yeah that will fix it...." *sigh*
Everyone is evil to a certain extent. The important thing is to recognize this and try to change. We are reminded daily of our evils from our states of mind. Those who ignore these messages are the ones we call ignorant - ignorant with their free will of the fact that God is shining his benevolent light through us constantly.
should evil be punished or just stopped? What shall we do until he does? Just wait? If god doesnt stop the evil but just punishes it sometime in the future, why dont we work towards trying to stop the evil from happening in the present? does god not want us to do that? and then of course we need to define 'evil' because it means different things to different people.
If God is almighty, can he create something more powerful than him?
Yes? Then he's not almighty, because something more powerful can exist.
No? Then he's not almighty, because his power is limited.
We don't have to wait for God to come here and destroy all evil, because we have the power to do that ourselves. By waiting for a higher being to solve our problems and doing nothing, we are just as evil as the evil-doers.
Ok if at first you don't succeed try again. The top post tossed out free will little to no proof or logic to there claims. In this case i'll say that free will dose not exists and give a second answer. If there is no evil is their good? If one did not exists nether would the other. For the sake of argument lets just say that there was no evil and only good then there would be no reference for what good actually is. in short no one would be the wiser. to know good you must know also know evil.
i thought about commenting... then i saw another one of your videos is entitled, "how to rip a phone book in half..." then i stopped.
..although epicurus more than likely would have enjoyed that video significantly more than this nonsense christrian rhetoric
oh and i liked, "oh no.. epicurus, you got me this time" ......"its not my claim that i know everything there is to know about everything.." obviously...why bother to even put that disclaimer in there.. you are, because you believe in god.
You're assuming that the evil we experience on earth is true evil. Perhaps God does protect us from evil...real, true, pure evil. A level of evil that can only come from Satan and his sulphurous minions. Maybe what we are left with - what we experience - is simply of our own making and it is because of our own failings that they exist. Perhaps God can & does protect us from evil... a level of evil we can't even imagine.
You're as dense as that guy in the sleeveless shirt. Historically, most evils are the result of imperialism. Religions are codified during the ascension of empires are always used to justify the bloodshed. God must love morons and greedy CEOs and Dictators because he sure made a fuck-ton of them. The invisible dad in the sky will not save you.
This answer does not satisfy. I am a Christian, but this answer is wholly and totally inadequate. What you're saying is that God is NOT willing to stop evil now, but He will be willing in the future. But what is time to a truly omnipotent God?
Indeed, if God could have created the universe in any of infinite possible variations, then why create a universe where evil existed? Give us free will, give us challenges, but just don't have evil. If I can imagine such a universe, surely God is able to.
This is just their way of "answering" a tough question with bulls**t and smoke and mirrors. They love to say "it simply is" because that's the way to answer a question without really saying anything. If any argument can be solved by a "book" then I can quote many that say "little green men" live among us. But some people need to be told what and how to think, while others invent Penicillin and land on the moon. It's thier same kind of thinking that brought us into the dark ages...
Equally, Adam and Eve were punished for going against God's word and eating the fruit of knowledge; the knowledge of right and wrong. How could they possibly know it is wrong to go against God's word without the knowledge that he himself is withholding from them?
Genesis - the introduction to the bible - is a farce. How can anyone believe such dribble?
The bible also says that Adam and Eve had Cain and Able; two sons. And that somehow from that point they managed to populate the earth, even though it is against the bible to sleep with your own mother. It then also says that Cain left Eden and 'found' a wife. Even though there is no evidence or prior mention of another woman being created by God.
If jesus knew their was a paradise waiting for him and it was way better then this dump and that forever is a really long time and he knew that anything that happened to him would be like a baby falling out of his bed. There might be a little blood and tears now. But tomorrow you will have forgotten all about it. Really doesnt sound like he made such a sacrifice. Really thats all he had to do so save humanity? I can think of a thousand people who suffered a worse fate. Shit he got to be outside.
@ace1122tw Actually if its all true and he only had to go through a few days of torture. For all the sins of mankind. Then how come for the sins of one man, I have to suffer an eternity of supposedly worse things then I can imagine. I would take jesus punishment anyday. I would suffer one up him and take 1 million years of torture for just my sins. If that meant I got an ETERNITY in paradise. The more I think about mainstream religion the less it makes sense.
And if this does not convince you then maybe this will.. The whole context in witch your thinking is based on fear! The fear of beeing pulled into hell for eternety. Fear is also a negative emotion witch is far far away from the love the bible preaches.
In the end i believe is the awnser to the question is that we need to kill the messenger but not the message. This meaning that we do not need to believe in a God in order to do the right thing. Your saying that you dont steal because God demands this of you. Can't you just see for yourself that this is a negative thing to do and so not do it??
As for free will, we do have some IMO, but in this day of age we are limeted mostly by our own people. We are beeing lyed to on a daily basis and the only reason this is happening is because the people in power are affraid to lose it.
@MultiDeze That is exactly right, people don't see how powerful they can be on their own. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. The ones in power of the christian church have enough resources to feed and cloth all the homeless in the world. easily. Dont they beleive in Jesus? shouldn't they do that? He would wouldnt he? I would. Why arnt they? Maybe cuz they like power.
As i am watching your reply to "the question" i cant help noticing that you take on the weakest point in his question :" If there is a God, and he is able and willing to stop evil then why doesn't he?
Your reply on this is that what we think is evil, isn't what god thinks is evil and you repeat what is says in the bible. Its fine that this is what you believe, but that does not awnser the question. Aslong as God is not activly persuing his believe to abolish evil, he is able and not willing.
Right, I was hoping that you would come up with something amazing here, but again...zip.
Anyhow, I do agree with one assertion I think I extracted; if God exists, he can do what ever he likes; he rules.
God is like a government passing an ingenious tax-law. It can be completely unfair, but those law-makers have all the consent to do what ever they like; they rule democratic concept and constitution.
Right, but it still begs the question. Ok God is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. He can see the future, his actions and the consequences of them before he has done them. If he gave us free will, he he also knew that evil would prevail because of that and since he created "man in his image", he would have known that humans aren't perfect, make mistakes and do bad things. Why would he punish us for something he created and is responsible for? Thus, I don't believe in him.
If God wants to eradicate evil then he should start at home. He should man up and change his ways and become the all-loving, merciful, benevolent personality his worshippers imagine him to be, rather than the sadistic, cruel, bloodthirsty tyrant he is and evidently plans to continue to be.
"god is in complete control, and he could stop evil if he wanted to, and he does desire too"
Then Epicurus is right. God is a complete fuck-tard. He created the "timetables", he created sin, he created us knowing we would sin, he left us to be tempted by a talking snake.
The reason you don't like the answer either... is because it's wrong, it's logically flawed and you clearly get an uneasy feeling about it.
The answer is simple. He is nothing. He is a wheel pushed on by the fear and ignorance of man. If someone wished to wipe religion from the world, God, Allah, Buddha, all gods would disappear, they exist because we place them there.
I was hoping for something stronger, but I guess there is no way for christians to do that.
What if everything that is happening right now is what should be happening?
What if no powerful entity had control over anything?
Why do you guys keep on making stuff up?
If jesus died already for us, then we can do whatever the hell we want, then right before we die, then we accept the imaginary jesus and we are saved.
1. Free will is not dependent on evil being an option; it's perfectly easy to imagine a possible universe where people can freely choose different flavors of ice cream, and trillions of other choices, without living in a world with any evil at all.
2. If god is in control he's created evil, and should be despised. This isn't necessary because there is no such thing.
3. Your notion of doing something good later does not undo past evil; you can;t "wallpaper over" a past wrong in this way.
SO youre saying that I as a Non-believer will get punished,while a reflecting Charles Manson will go to heaven just if he believes in God of the bible ?
So your back at square 1 in my view. Why doesn't God punish evil like Manson did ?
Man when you start at 5:35 or so it is so wrong. God sounds like the devil. We are allowed to commit sins as long as we praise his name? Isn't that just like selling your soul to the devil? That's where christianity turned me off years ago, that among other things.
by preventing evil from existing you basically stop evil... so by creating the illusion of free will "god" made evil, its that clear, and as stated in many other comments: if you believe in god then free will is just an illusion , and even when you dont free will is an illusion, you always get influenced in a certain way or another: media, where you lived, what your morals are etc etc...
A god who is both all-loving and all-just is not possible !!!
1. If one is all-loving he enjoys everything around him, he loves everything, and the tought of "justice" will never come to his mind.
2. If one is all-just, then he will judge everything from his point of view. The way He thinks morality is. But even when those are 2 seperate things, morality is subjective. No human being can claim to know what are the objective moral rules that we should follow. There are 40 organised religions !
you pretty much just defeated your own argument within the first minute and forty five seconds. maybe even before that. FIRST, it helps if you read the entire quote, SECOND, your statements confirm that your god is an apathetic, sadistic, narcissist!
so by "God's" definition of evil- everyone, every single individual on this planet is the epitamy of evil BUT because he does what he wants, when he wants, we can save ourselves from that evil hopefully before "God" can put out his wrath on us....hmmm he allows evil to occur because he's too lazy to do anything about it or simply doesn't care right that second making him MALEVOLENT...great answer to the questions, much appreciated lol
If God will someday pass judgment ...what the hell is he waiting for? Who cares about evil in terms on lying, and cheating. What about the evil murders throughout the centuries where people died in the name of religion? Because they believed in a different God? God could have ended the religious murders long ago by revealing Himself and just stop the God controversy. But He didn't do that, and doesn't and probably ever won't, which brings us right back to the original questions.
If that be the case.. I rather go to hell with all the atheists, which will be the only ones to go there.. then again.. there's no hell.. or heaven... or god.. so why even argue..
And that must be sooo comforting for you.. "I don't have to take responsibility for my evil! Someone else will do it for me!" Basicly that means, every single fucking retarded asshole who lived a pedophile, rapist, murderer... so on, you name it! Who belive in this all so mighty "god" will go to eternal paradise and live with the angels of the heavens, oh glory!
The only acceptable answer I've ever been able to take, is that he is willing and able, in nature. The best way of saying it is that as god, he is above cheating the system of saving your soul. A sort of trust test you do to demonstrate it to oneself and to others that it is possible for man is capable of believing in the said truth (if it so could be called), and therefore redeemable. Worth existing.
I am an Athiest, but I understand that if only the moral arguement isn't complete as of yet.
In the paradox he's talking about evil, now and here.
The fact that you believe someday it will be over (I bet it will be over in some way or the other...) is not relevant at all for this paradox. It's dodging the question.
But actually, despite what you are trying here, you did answer: GOD IS NOT WILLING.
So we can conclude god is worse than Hitler who (together with an army and a christian nation) did evil to "only" 6 million people...instead of billions as god does
Now the typical answer is that people choose to do evil with their free will
Why this is a load of nonsense is pretty easy to see
-We didnt choose to exist in the first place. God made us together with our free will (see below why free will doesnt even exist), and god is omnipotent and omniscient. So for the sake of his sick soul game to send some people to heaven, he chose to let billions of people exist who he knew would use their "free will" and would need to send those to hell for eternity
@ispaniola so if free will doesnt exist, then god designated my life to go from christianity to satanism to atheism. An "all powerful 'loving' god" is plotting my demise. That doesnt sound loving. Certainly my mother would never put me in a postion as such. In such a case, god would be malevolent.
God creates us, right? Thus, he must create our soul. Why would a benevolent creature give us, let alone make, impure souls to begin with? God does not exist. If he did, he would not be perfect.
- Finally, free will doesnt exist if you believe in god (perhaps also when you dont believe in god btw)
Free will is not a thing or entity you can give somebody. It can only be an attribute of the tools than can perform it. If you believe in god, that tool is probably your soul. God made our soul, so he knows exactly how it works. He knows before he even create one living thing, exactly what people in what situations would do evil because of how their soul works.
@ispaniola Free will can still co-exist with god. You are not a product of how you are made. You are a product of your experiences. That is why religion, food, accents, the decisions you make, etc, are all according to where you live. Show of hands, how many of you american born people beleive in Hinduism? been around for a mighty long time a major religion. They get the same feeling you do in your gut. The one that says "this must be right". A lot are willing to die for their religion and do.
@ispaniola Anything anyone says about god or religion is based on faith...or assertions. I was showing you my logic. I have many reasons to base off what I say as fact, if you want me to write a book I guess I could. Too me the reasons seem to stand out. In every religion you have a soul or a higher self of some kind. That soul goes somewhere and does something else when you die. It sounds like a video game to me. So many connections in all religions. You just have to see the dots.
@ispaniola I did not ever refute my arguments. I never said the "soul" makes a decisions. Your brain does. You are the creator of your own destiny. Do you remember your whole life? Those things you do remember, do they influence your life? Do you think there are things that you probably should have remembered? Do you think some of your experiences would have affected someone else differently? Its up to get out of life what you want. Your free to see and do things anyway you want.
@ispaniola When did I say I don't agree? Like I said do you remember all of your life experiences? If your bike gets stolen and you forget about it, do you think your next bike will get stolen again? Lets say there is a thousand different things you can learn from the same experience. I say that cuz I see it everyday. Do you think you caught all those things and remembered them? No. Did you have the chance to? Yes.
@ispaniola Basically you can either see the light from a situation or the darkness, a thousand fold. Both light and darkness are always there. but you choose the way you act on what you perceived. There is always determinism but there is a thousand ways to interpret your environment.....Do you see what I am saying? I am trying to make sense of it myself, so I probably do not make sense.
@ispaniola You can definitely give freedom to someone or something. There must be a god. I am not christian and I beleive all Christians are idiots. but that is for a different discussion. Its obvious you can give someone free will. God does it every day. The people you call "evil" or the person you call "Satan". He lets them do whatever they want. I have seen things that people do. If that stuff does not deserve you to get punished right then and there, then nothing else really matters.
@ispaniola If god created you and he knew you were going to be evil and he cared enough to punish you later. Why wait? God works in mysterious ways! Bull shit. Maybe he doesnt care. Maybe eternity is a long fucking time. Maybe this thing you call evil is a catalyst to teach you something. Maybe god sees that this is just a video game. There is no evil. Pain exists only in this life as a sensation of this body. He designed everything in this world for us.
@ispaniola I made the choice to exist. I love existing its practically all I do. This is not some sick soul game. If you beleive that, then kill yourself. But you were right, the Christians are wrong and idiots for believing that crap. Why would god love you and completely fuck you over. My parents would never fuck me over like that, they sorta love me. I would never fuck around with eternity neither would god. This is all a video game, no one designs video games for you not to experience it all
It always makes you look foolish or ignorant to start your argument by mocking the the differing opinion.
So what if God is sovereign? If he is infinitely compassionette and and caring and wants the best for us then stop the evil before it brings harm to what he loves.
He perhaps doesn't think we believe is evil is in fact evil? Did he not create us in his own image? Did he not inspire the bible as a moral guide? Then how is what we consider evil not what he considers evil?
It's not your responsibility? Wow, that is a profound thought...
you reap what you sow, I think I have heard that somewhere...
also, I choose not to live in fear of an angry god. Any God that disapproves of what I am doing can change me any time he wants...that is if he exist as you define.
and if he truly does exist, I hope his noodley appendage bless you with his meatball goodness
So basically he can stop evil but doesn't because he is working within his own agenda and time scale. I think that falls into the malevolent category.
You say that God has a different definition of evil than us. So did Hitler. Just because he thinks it is good, doesn't mean it is. Likewise, just because he thinks it is bad, doesn't mean it is. You say God has a different timeframe than us. Omnipotence would imply being able to do anything at any speed. If you were seriously injured and there was a doctor nearby, he would be just as malevolent for taking a month to help you as he would be for not helping you at all.
I think the very fact that after more than 2000 years christians/jews/muslims etc are still trying to answer this riddle says a fair bit in of itself...
Evil is all relative. What we consider evil may not be what another culture (being) may consider evil. And what we've been taugh that evil is, and must coexist with what we consider good.
Then how can god punish evil if it is relative? Christians do not believe evil is relative btw.
Furthermore, suffering is a better word to use. Why does god allow needless suffering when he has the power to prevent it? Because it has to coexist with pleasure?
We need suffering children in the world so that others can have pleasure. Is that the best an omnipotent god can do?
Anywho, I personally dont believe that god even watches us.i believe that, yes he exists, & may watch us, but he has no direct effect on us that isnt already pre-determined like events of "biblical proportions". (happenings like the rapture), otherwise we have our own free will, and OUR actions relate to what happens to us. some may be more lucky in this respect, but everyone has a chance to be whatever. if something turns out evil, then that is how it was nurtured to be.
Free will is an illusion. From any view point it doesn't exist and even in a reality where it did exist you would be forced to give it up if you wanted to get into heaven. God requires servitude and punishes the use of "free will" in any manner not to his liking. Open your mind and explore the possibilities outside of religion before you decide your beliefs.
Christians always feel this overwhelming need to prove the existence of their god. Why so defensive? You know, if you had never posted this video, I would still know what Christians think about Epicurus. Christians boisterously tell us what they think about everything. BTW the Bible isn't fact, it is a hypothesis written by a lot of people who were alive when the Earth was still flat.
I think you've made an honest attempt at trying to apply logic to find a resolution to these questions, but have not understood the logical extremes assumed in the nature of the questions themselves.
In the context of Epicurus' largely rhetorical riddle, he asserts that if God were both able and willing simultaneously, then the mere presence of evil in itself is a paradox. For if He willed and He were able, it would simply not exist.
god invented mercy but invented hell also( hell is not mercy); angel are happy from the start, we, the childrens of god, are sinners and we need to win our happines( irelevant).77x77mercy but invented hell... hes vanity and gelousy is way bigger than any person on Earth. We made GOD after our image not GOD made us after his image.
But God, by definition, is omnipresent, meaning that He exists in every place, in every time. He can't operate on His own time if He exists in all of time. Meaning at this very moment He exists in today, but also tomorrow and yesterday, etc. Since that is so, why didn't He stop the evil at its birth? He created everything thus He created evil. Why did He do that? Why make His creation suffer? Isn't it so convenient for you to say that God is omnipresent but still operates on his own time?
Does God have an opinion about the person who stands by and allows other people to commit evil, who sees suffering and can ease it, who can help the poor and the sick but stands by and does nothing. Isn't that evil too?
Well, God can do all those things -- he can prevent the killing, prevent the suffering, ease the poor, heal the sick.
And instead, he does nothing. Not only does he allow the suffering, he's the source of much of it.
God is not on our timetable. That is your answer? That an omni-powerful being can't relate to our timetable and interact appropriately? Say for example stop a teenage girl from getting gangraped because his timetable is not the same as ours? Maybe your omni-uber God needs to get a better a watch. Seriously, grow up! There is no gods!
a much simpler and much more reasonable explanation is that good and evil are relative, good cannot exist without evil and vice versa. Therefore, if there is a god, He would most likely not destroy evil if it meant it would destroy good.
@natdogrocker: Going back to the riddle: if evil and good are relative and God created both, then evil comes from God( ansr to "Whence cometh evil") This also qualifies as malevolence (per the riddle) and as an "all-good" being cannot be malevolent then God is not all-good. If God is not all-good than how is he better than a human despot besides being stronger and (per the Bible) immortal?
evil was created here on earth. God simply just is. And life just is. We were created to help one another and live a happy life. evil was created here on earth.
so in other words.. god put us on this earth to suffer and watch bad things happen.. and then when he gives us every reason to think that he does not exist.. he will send us straight to hell for eternity.. seems like god is a bit of a control freak.
Looks as if we have not got a chance. If God exists and has been around too long for our small minds to comprehend then to God we must be ignorant tiny and inignificant. We can not know his mind & he would not care to know our minds, dreams, hopes, fears & pain. He put 2 people in a garden & allowed a serpent or angel who was much brighter than they to manipulate them. Why? Unfair, they were unprepared & never even knew what manipulation of that kind was.Does God blame the babies?
i am an atheist, but i sincerely respect your attempt to answer the "riddle', for the unexamined life is not worth living, and you ARE a philosopher and others might even see as a prophet. you seem to be a good human being, as well as a scholar, i hope you have a great journey in life, thank you for the video.
Setting aside other mistakes for now, and recognizing probably a thousand people have made this point already, your answer has the logical problem that evil can't be solved after the fact. If you torture an innocent person, giving them $50 million later does not undo the evil, even if it placates or "satisfies" the victim. He or she still WAS a victim. The point Epicurus made is unassailable: either God likes evil, or there isn't a God (in the conventional sense of being all powerful).
I don't care to throw my life away kowtowing to the childlike whimsy of some bored, jealous, selfish omniscient creature, if he/she/it does even exist.
also he allows natural disasters to happen to kill a lot of people, then he allows evil doers to do evil and kill a lot of people, but won't do anything about it until he's ready because our 'evil" is not "evil" to his eyes...but it was listed in the bible as his words in red...ok?
This atheist appreciates your humility in applying logic to religion. One minor comment on "It's not my claim that I know everything there's to know about everything"...implies you know ALL there's to know about something and/or you know somethings about EVERYTHING and/or you know somethings about somethings and/or you know nothing at all!........... So I assume you meant "You know somethings about somethings ", that would have been a better way to start the video.
First off, Epicirus wasnt just asking about his knowledge and willingness to prevent evil...it was about his proposed unconditional love as well. If you truly love someone, and it is within your power to prevent them harm, you cannot justify not doing so and still claim love for them. You've solved nothing by misconstruing the ACTUAL challenge set by Epicurus. He cannot be all powerful, all knowing and all loving with the existence of evil.
The god in the bible is himself evil. "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men,… “ Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children” Ezekiel 9:5-7
“Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.” Isaiah 13:15-18
“Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses” 1 Samuel 15:2-3
max2right 3 months ago
chirectomy, You assume that all of the terrible things that happen to humanity are undeserved. You also assume that humanity, in general, is innocent before God. What if humanity as a whole were guilty of the highest crime against God? Would He be unjust to punish them with terrible penalties? Why would He be guilty of evil? You, as most, think ill of the possibility of God's wrath because He extends grace so frequently. The full force of God's wrath is withheld for a time, for your sake.
Aleetheis 4 months ago
@Aleetheis
Are you saying that innocent children never die in floods, famines or earthquakes? What about babies who get AIDS or other STDs from their parents? Perhaps you're saying that all humans are born guilty and deserving of eternal damnation in the next life and whatever suffering god inflicts on us in this one. If so, I must say this is one of the most evil doctrines in any religion since it devalues our own humanity so much that we excuse the death and suffering of children.
chirectomy 3 months ago
@chirectomy
What is the definition of innocent? Do you decide? By what criterion does one measure innocence? If God exists, then He should be the judge of innocence or guilt. If humanity is a rebellious species, must God excuse their rebellion? What kind of leader/ruler does that? A ruler/sovereign must maintain authority over his/her subjects. You say,“I think all people are innocent from birth, therefore suffering endured by those innocent ones is unjust.”
Aleetheis 3 months ago
@chirectomy
The bible says,“All people are guilty from birth, therefore life itself is a gift of grace and underserved. If God chooses to take away grace, it is not unjust; it is the very definition of justice to give one what they are due.”
Aleetheis 3 months ago
When god gets around to stopping evil, will he also go back and undo all evils that have already occurred? Dealing justice to evildoers in the future is not the same as preventing evil, because he allowed to evil acts to happen in the first place. Also, you make the same mistake as those who use the "free will" argument, focusing on evil done by human action and ignoring things like malaria, hurricanes, and drought, which would be god's fault. Will he also punish himself for those things?
chirectomy 4 months ago
As a responsible athiest i do not see it necessary to mock other peoples beliefs. This type of behaviour is supposed to be what we fight against. At least this guy makes an attempt to provide argument. I have met people unwilling to listen to anything i say about evolution let alone come up with some form of arugment against it.
imortalsappy 4 months ago
You rely on a book written by man to answer one of the most amazing riddles ever asked. You lose.
straydoglogic 6 months ago
I liked it better when Goldberg didn't speak.
butternutsquashist 7 months ago
I love how this guys tells us what god thinks -I love how he quickly dismisses all the pain and suffering in the world and gives the excuse "well god is god and he can do whatever he wants".
These kind of people frighten me because given the right conditions and with the right charlatan to manipulate their feeble minds -they'll commit genocide and atrocities and excuse them as "holy".
American Taliban anyone?. .
Dionysus5252 7 months ago
Typical Christian Taliban argument--possibly redneck American--note the "Christian" tattoos. :D
Agnostic21 7 months ago
It's like watching a doG chase after it's tail. The "Wholly Buy Bull" has made a purebred religitard here! Wow! It's fascinating in a train wreck sort of way. Sad, but you can't look away.
blackestjake 8 months ago
You, sir, are an idiot. Don't condemn the drunkard when you yourself are part of the most hypocritical drunkenness in the history of mankind.
KaireLee 9 months ago
At least the guy is humble.
If god isn't banishing evil right now, then as of this moment is is able but no willing. Meaning god is evil.
Peter1992t 10 months ago
then there should be NO evil, that was the assertion of the riddle.
hedorah99 10 months ago
Not on our time table? So he's not able?
EmmeJayKay 10 months ago
This is what happens when you give up on knowledge and wanting to know the origins of everything, I'm glad humans didn't give up @ multiplication... 2x2= 'god did it' just doesn't sit right with me.
turtle5181 10 months ago
Now, does this not satanic? THAT GOD NEEDS BLOOD TO REPAY OUR SINS?!
MamboSizedByte 11 months ago
He failed to actually ask the questions that Epicurus asks. He never answered the questions. The point still is: "Then why call him God?"
racif 11 months ago
why the fuck would a perfect, inteligent being (A.K.A God) would need or want to create humans and the Universe? what would he win if we pray and follow his orders?... It makes no sense for me a God with a purpose for creation...
mau571 11 months ago
Placebo effect
mau571 11 months ago
Good Answer.
TheRaizen33 1 year ago
there are innumerable problems with religion, probably the greatest of which being its tendency to attempt to force others to comply with its belief system by imposing its own morality on others. belief in a religion is not inherently right or wrong, expecting others to believe it is problematic to say the least. you should never, NEVER try to argue a question of logic using religion. religion is not an acceptable answer to anything because it is its own reason.
JCake89 1 year ago
there are plenty of other religions and they all believe they are the chosen ones. christianity does not have a market on virtue. there are plenty of good people around the world adhering to different faiths or none at all. a just god would not punish people who contribute to the well being of this world and its inhabitants for something as vain and trivial as belief in him. belief in doing good would be a higher priority than recognition. btw epicurus still owns you.
JCake89 1 year ago
@JCake89 I believe in God (Christian) myself and have often thought about this. It seems a mission for us to basically spread the gospel and "recruit" believers.. however, I've often thought, "What about those people that have had no Christian influence and have no way of really choosing to believe in what I believe?" This is why I try not to judge people for differing religions... As I see it, people know in their hearts how to distinguish "right" from "wrong"... we should go from there.
metalmonkey88 1 year ago
if god is all powerful then he can stop bad from happening. if he is all knowing he knew people would do good and bad to begin with. and if he cares then he isnt all loving because he created us to suffer. with eternal reward and punishment dispensed arbitrarily based on blind faith, or rather gambling. the entire concept is sadistic. he created people for a contest which has no purpose other than deciding eternal punishment or reward based solely on a persons refusal to think logocally.
JCake89 1 year ago
God(s) is(are) blissful, omnipotent and omniscient, but as Epicurus would say, he(she,they) do[es} not bother with humans. That much is obvious. My 2 day old nephew died of a heart defect despite many, many prayers. God did not answer. Why not? No intervention my friend, wake up.
doctorselby 1 year ago
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Did it ever occur to you that Epicurus implies that God and Satan are one and the same?
quote3000 1 year ago
Wow, that was weak
governator45 1 year ago
"Nothing is either good or evil but thinking makes it so." (Hamlet)
Christianity is obsolete...God's utility function at its best...such a hypocrite doctrin...
They rarely even ask which story their steak tells them...
But and that's a big but...our ability as humans to create (moral) sense is fantastically immense...
Another 10.000 years of (empathical) evolution...and we may make it !
VIVAT EPICURUS & the STOICS !!!
zcaramouche 1 year ago 5
@zcaramouche
Stoic slutes brother =)
Alexsuper15 9 months ago
My friend its your right to believe in God any God. But I prefer Epicurus, cause you really DONT answer !!!
expressssssssssss 1 year ago
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Your God by your argument is Malevolent. He can fix the problem now but chooses not to. In which case the only reason to worship your god is out of fear of his wrath so what is the differnce bettween your God and the Devil.
bogart99 1 year ago
Your God by your argument is Malevolent can can fix the problem now but chooses not to. In which case the only reason to worship your god is out of fear of his wrath in which case what is the differnce bettween your God and the Devil.
bogart99 1 year ago
Bhuddism and Epicurean beliefs are remarkably similar for a reason-- this stuff is (or at least should be) common knowledge.
wahtization 1 year ago
This guy seriously argues with Epicurus?
God does not exist. Prove it otherwise... OH NO PROOF?
Oh right....you can FEEL him right? LOL
AHAHAHAAHA
chrizzly88 1 year ago 3
Jesus died LOL
chrizzly88 1 year ago
being balanced is about being in peace with everything whee u see all and feel alll without the weight of evil forces on the left or good forces on the right
tranglomango 1 year ago
Aleetheis, there is no God that comands us in MY opinion, we have free will, there r only one thing that u can real follow and that is EXPERIENCE, one must learn how to find his own way to happiness but always following a BALANCE between good and evil, and that does not mean doing 50% evil and 50% good it means avoiding personal rage and personal euphoria...
tranglomango 1 year ago
and the last thing, there is no evil without good, there is no good without evil, light gives a purpose to the existence of darkness, while darkness gives a purpose for the existence of light...they kill eachother, they give birth to each other...the only TRUE and REAL message from a God is.....PEACE and ETERNAL BALANCE are the only essence, the only core within God, that is what God wants us to learn and follow, forget about religions, it's all about Philosophy...
tranglomango 1 year ago
each person has his experiences and values, some think killing a killer is good others think otherwise...that is the true nature of god..Being able to acept circunstances, be them good or bad, being also strong to overcome ur own weakness and ur own limitations
tranglomango 1 year ago
friends...god is supose to be the center, the everything and nothing, alpha and omega....of course evil source is god, and good source is also god...ppl must learn that evil makes part of good and good makes part of evil...evil and good r definitly not OBJECTIVE...
tranglomango 1 year ago
attemp...that sys everything....AND FAIL
tranglomango 1 year ago
Then he is malicious.
andymcgaha 1 year ago
This is ridiculous. Logic simply doesn't apply to Christians. Full stop.
malygoat 1 year ago
so you won't be punished for your sins because jesus will take them away? WHAT? how convenient. That's too easy, i may as well do what i want, jesus will forgive me. What a load of shit, Take jesus out of the equation if you want some credibility.
barra567 1 year ago
I wonder what will GOD say about us talking about him. after all epicurus is not all knowing yet he talks like hes a god or something. so smart gets stupid. thumbs up??
TheJethBLACK 1 year ago
Better pay the mob boss or something bad will happen to you.
Would just have loved to hear the conversation.
"
Hey son... I f^cked up with the rules for going to hell so now ordinary folks get to be tortured for ever just for being born. But I think I have a solution.... You go down their and live as a man and let you self be tortured and killed.... yeah that will fix it...." *sigh*
Faidros62 1 year ago
Everyone is evil to a certain extent. The important thing is to recognize this and try to change. We are reminded daily of our evils from our states of mind. Those who ignore these messages are the ones we call ignorant - ignorant with their free will of the fact that God is shining his benevolent light through us constantly.
TurboRonin83 1 year ago
should evil be punished or just stopped? What shall we do until he does? Just wait? If god doesnt stop the evil but just punishes it sometime in the future, why dont we work towards trying to stop the evil from happening in the present? does god not want us to do that? and then of course we need to define 'evil' because it means different things to different people.
Craego 1 year ago
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You Fail, big time!!!
cosmos11 1 year ago
If God is almighty, can he create something more powerful than him?
Yes? Then he's not almighty, because something more powerful can exist.
No? Then he's not almighty, because his power is limited.
We don't have to wait for God to come here and destroy all evil, because we have the power to do that ourselves. By waiting for a higher being to solve our problems and doing nothing, we are just as evil as the evil-doers.
noxure 1 year ago
Ok if at first you don't succeed try again. The top post tossed out free will little to no proof or logic to there claims. In this case i'll say that free will dose not exists and give a second answer. If there is no evil is their good? If one did not exists nether would the other. For the sake of argument lets just say that there was no evil and only good then there would be no reference for what good actually is. in short no one would be the wiser. to know good you must know also know evil.
inues 1 year ago
this reply is just a cop out
MrDasmaster 1 year ago
i thought about commenting... then i saw another one of your videos is entitled, "how to rip a phone book in half..." then i stopped.
..although epicurus more than likely would have enjoyed that video significantly more than this nonsense christrian rhetoric
oh and i liked, "oh no.. epicurus, you got me this time" ......"its not my claim that i know everything there is to know about everything.." obviously...why bother to even put that disclaimer in there.. you are, because you believe in god.
MrMjbrown12 1 year ago
You're assuming that the evil we experience on earth is true evil. Perhaps God does protect us from evil...real, true, pure evil. A level of evil that can only come from Satan and his sulphurous minions. Maybe what we are left with - what we experience - is simply of our own making and it is because of our own failings that they exist. Perhaps God can & does protect us from evil... a level of evil we can't even imagine.
Anyway, just an idea.
mubirshu 1 year ago
@mubirshu If the Holocaust isn't proof of Evil on earth there is no such thing.
Protagoris 1 year ago
@mubirshu
You're as dense as that guy in the sleeveless shirt. Historically, most evils are the result of imperialism. Religions are codified during the ascension of empires are always used to justify the bloodshed. God must love morons and greedy CEOs and Dictators because he sure made a fuck-ton of them. The invisible dad in the sky will not save you.
plainPLAIDplain 1 year ago
This answer does not satisfy. I am a Christian, but this answer is wholly and totally inadequate. What you're saying is that God is NOT willing to stop evil now, but He will be willing in the future. But what is time to a truly omnipotent God?
Indeed, if God could have created the universe in any of infinite possible variations, then why create a universe where evil existed? Give us free will, give us challenges, but just don't have evil. If I can imagine such a universe, surely God is able to.
decoy256 1 year ago
What is evil
megapenguinmafia 1 year ago
Comment removed
megapenguinmafia 1 year ago
justice is cumming huh?
so your gonna sit there and wait for it?
wow blind and mis guided devotion anyone?
another failed attempt to answer Epicurus.
nice try sir but you fail you answered nothing.
atheistkyo 1 year ago
@atheistkyo
This is just their way of "answering" a tough question with bulls**t and smoke and mirrors. They love to say "it simply is" because that's the way to answer a question without really saying anything. If any argument can be solved by a "book" then I can quote many that say "little green men" live among us. But some people need to be told what and how to think, while others invent Penicillin and land on the moon. It's thier same kind of thinking that brought us into the dark ages...
TheBuilder65 1 year ago
FAIL VIDEO IS FAIL
mistermoen 1 year ago
Equally, Adam and Eve were punished for going against God's word and eating the fruit of knowledge; the knowledge of right and wrong. How could they possibly know it is wrong to go against God's word without the knowledge that he himself is withholding from them?
Genesis - the introduction to the bible - is a farce. How can anyone believe such dribble?
NOODLEYCHOPPER 1 year ago
The bible also says that Adam and Eve had Cain and Able; two sons. And that somehow from that point they managed to populate the earth, even though it is against the bible to sleep with your own mother. It then also says that Cain left Eden and 'found' a wife. Even though there is no evidence or prior mention of another woman being created by God.
NOODLEYCHOPPER 1 year ago
religion is the opium for the masses
forgivemefather1988 1 year ago
If jesus knew their was a paradise waiting for him and it was way better then this dump and that forever is a really long time and he knew that anything that happened to him would be like a baby falling out of his bed. There might be a little blood and tears now. But tomorrow you will have forgotten all about it. Really doesnt sound like he made such a sacrifice. Really thats all he had to do so save humanity? I can think of a thousand people who suffered a worse fate. Shit he got to be outside.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
@ace1122tw Actually if its all true and he only had to go through a few days of torture. For all the sins of mankind. Then how come for the sins of one man, I have to suffer an eternity of supposedly worse things then I can imagine. I would take jesus punishment anyday. I would suffer one up him and take 1 million years of torture for just my sins. If that meant I got an ETERNITY in paradise. The more I think about mainstream religion the less it makes sense.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
And if this does not convince you then maybe this will.. The whole context in witch your thinking is based on fear! The fear of beeing pulled into hell for eternety. Fear is also a negative emotion witch is far far away from the love the bible preaches.
MultiDeze 1 year ago
In the end i believe is the awnser to the question is that we need to kill the messenger but not the message. This meaning that we do not need to believe in a God in order to do the right thing. Your saying that you dont steal because God demands this of you. Can't you just see for yourself that this is a negative thing to do and so not do it??
MultiDeze 1 year ago
As for free will, we do have some IMO, but in this day of age we are limeted mostly by our own people. We are beeing lyed to on a daily basis and the only reason this is happening is because the people in power are affraid to lose it.
MultiDeze 1 year ago
@MultiDeze That is exactly right, people don't see how powerful they can be on their own. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. The ones in power of the christian church have enough resources to feed and cloth all the homeless in the world. easily. Dont they beleive in Jesus? shouldn't they do that? He would wouldnt he? I would. Why arnt they? Maybe cuz they like power.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
As i am watching your reply to "the question" i cant help noticing that you take on the weakest point in his question :" If there is a God, and he is able and willing to stop evil then why doesn't he?
Your reply on this is that what we think is evil, isn't what god thinks is evil and you repeat what is says in the bible. Its fine that this is what you believe, but that does not awnser the question. Aslong as God is not activly persuing his believe to abolish evil, he is able and not willing.
MultiDeze 1 year ago
Right, I was hoping that you would come up with something amazing here, but again...zip.
Anyhow, I do agree with one assertion I think I extracted; if God exists, he can do what ever he likes; he rules.
God is like a government passing an ingenious tax-law. It can be completely unfair, but those law-makers have all the consent to do what ever they like; they rule democratic concept and constitution.
Bad luck I don't believe in God.
studioROT 1 year ago
So....Jesus will come back, and kill himself.....because Christians sinned?
Like.... A Christian person took something that wasn't theirs. Instant Sin, right there. God WILL justify that, because that was an act of evil.
LelouchXLamperouge 1 year ago
Right, but it still begs the question. Ok God is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. He can see the future, his actions and the consequences of them before he has done them. If he gave us free will, he he also knew that evil would prevail because of that and since he created "man in his image", he would have known that humans aren't perfect, make mistakes and do bad things. Why would he punish us for something he created and is responsible for? Thus, I don't believe in him.
GaeilgeSpraoi 1 year ago
what a stupid, stupid monologue;
naive, asinine, sloppy, nothing-saying, fallacious, and first and foremost, OOOOOLD stuff
twooffour 1 year ago
This response just begs the question. Its the ol' cop out of "we can't understand the things of God."
Also, it is not about why are there evil doers. Think about Epicurus' question like this; why do bad things happen to good people?
mjwheele 1 year ago
If God wants to eradicate evil then he should start at home. He should man up and change his ways and become the all-loving, merciful, benevolent personality his worshippers imagine him to be, rather than the sadistic, cruel, bloodthirsty tyrant he is and evidently plans to continue to be.
pinkpuff 1 year ago
"god is in complete control, and he could stop evil if he wanted to, and he does desire too"
Then Epicurus is right. God is a complete fuck-tard. He created the "timetables", he created sin, he created us knowing we would sin, he left us to be tempted by a talking snake.
The reason you don't like the answer either... is because it's wrong, it's logically flawed and you clearly get an uneasy feeling about it.
geoffpot 1 year ago
sometimes, one gets the feeling that there is no more original thinking anymore
omarabreu 1 year ago
The answer is simple. He is nothing. He is a wheel pushed on by the fear and ignorance of man. If someone wished to wipe religion from the world, God, Allah, Buddha, all gods would disappear, they exist because we place them there.
TakedaDemon 1 year ago
God is not on our time table??? That's any easy one. Evil will end?? Of course it will end...when the world ends!
irodmann 1 year ago
So your conclusion is based on a book?
I was hoping for something stronger, but I guess there is no way for christians to do that.
What if everything that is happening right now is what should be happening?
What if no powerful entity had control over anything?
Why do you guys keep on making stuff up?
If jesus died already for us, then we can do whatever the hell we want, then right before we die, then we accept the imaginary jesus and we are saved.
NICE!!!
alejodaza 1 year ago
1. Free will is not dependent on evil being an option; it's perfectly easy to imagine a possible universe where people can freely choose different flavors of ice cream, and trillions of other choices, without living in a world with any evil at all.
2. If god is in control he's created evil, and should be despised. This isn't necessary because there is no such thing.
3. Your notion of doing something good later does not undo past evil; you can;t "wallpaper over" a past wrong in this way.
Ofinfinitejest 1 year ago
epicurus vs this guy? tough one
provatoGR 1 year ago
SO youre saying that I as a Non-believer will get punished,while a reflecting Charles Manson will go to heaven just if he believes in God of the bible ?
So your back at square 1 in my view. Why doesn't God punish evil like Manson did ?
MexxPowers 1 year ago
well, sucks for you guys, ill be on the other side of room enjoying life.
evilresidence4 1 year ago
Man when you start at 5:35 or so it is so wrong. God sounds like the devil. We are allowed to commit sins as long as we praise his name? Isn't that just like selling your soul to the devil? That's where christianity turned me off years ago, that among other things.
CrackHeadForLife420 1 year ago
If he can stop evil and is willing to stop evil, why the fuck is there evil idiot?
jonathon1018 1 year ago
Lmao this guy just looked like a huge tool so I was prepared for the worst. Lots of made up shit with no meaning. I bet he can answer any question!
chasington89 1 year ago
by preventing evil from existing you basically stop evil... so by creating the illusion of free will "god" made evil, its that clear, and as stated in many other comments: if you believe in god then free will is just an illusion , and even when you dont free will is an illusion, you always get influenced in a certain way or another: media, where you lived, what your morals are etc etc...
ArcheryWarlock 1 year ago
so whats love have to do with it? what is love.i see no love in what god permits i see no love in what evil permits.does love exist in god or evil??
stealthgerm 1 year ago
A god who is both all-loving and all-just is not possible !!!
1. If one is all-loving he enjoys everything around him, he loves everything, and the tought of "justice" will never come to his mind.
2. If one is all-just, then he will judge everything from his point of view. The way He thinks morality is. But even when those are 2 seperate things, morality is subjective. No human being can claim to know what are the objective moral rules that we should follow. There are 40 organised religions !
Yamakoto120 1 year ago
you pretty much just defeated your own argument within the first minute and forty five seconds. maybe even before that. FIRST, it helps if you read the entire quote, SECOND, your statements confirm that your god is an apathetic, sadistic, narcissist!
thumbs up if your with me here!
Calebmoyer 1 year ago 17
so by "God's" definition of evil- everyone, every single individual on this planet is the epitamy of evil BUT because he does what he wants, when he wants, we can save ourselves from that evil hopefully before "God" can put out his wrath on us....hmmm he allows evil to occur because he's too lazy to do anything about it or simply doesn't care right that second making him MALEVOLENT...great answer to the questions, much appreciated lol
DayneAW 1 year ago
If God will someday pass judgment ...what the hell is he waiting for? Who cares about evil in terms on lying, and cheating. What about the evil murders throughout the centuries where people died in the name of religion? Because they believed in a different God? God could have ended the religious murders long ago by revealing Himself and just stop the God controversy. But He didn't do that, and doesn't and probably ever won't, which brings us right back to the original questions.
roaminn 1 year ago
In this case the answer is the simplest solution.
There is no God.
judoyodan 1 year ago
if god exists, he isn't willing to destroy evil because he is evil, he created it and condones it and so he isn't willing and is totally malovolent.
MrDemonpoetry 1 year ago
If that be the case.. I rather go to hell with all the atheists, which will be the only ones to go there.. then again.. there's no hell.. or heaven... or god.. so why even argue..
Deniecu 1 year ago
@Deniecu well put my friend :)
Deathlock257 1 year ago
And that must be sooo comforting for you.. "I don't have to take responsibility for my evil! Someone else will do it for me!" Basicly that means, every single fucking retarded asshole who lived a pedophile, rapist, murderer... so on, you name it! Who belive in this all so mighty "god" will go to eternal paradise and live with the angels of the heavens, oh glory!
Deniecu 1 year ago
Wait.. wait.. wait.. You base the whole video on the beginning of it.. but right from the start, you have a contridiction that you didn't face..
"Willing" if he's willing, as he, he wants to.. and "evil" is still here, it disprooves that.
And if he's able, but not willing, then he is malevolent.
Deniecu 1 year ago
The only acceptable answer I've ever been able to take, is that he is willing and able, in nature. The best way of saying it is that as god, he is above cheating the system of saving your soul. A sort of trust test you do to demonstrate it to oneself and to others that it is possible for man is capable of believing in the said truth (if it so could be called), and therefore redeemable. Worth existing.
I am an Athiest, but I understand that if only the moral arguement isn't complete as of yet.
shoopoop21 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In the paradox he's talking about evil, now and here.
The fact that you believe someday it will be over (I bet it will be over in some way or the other...) is not relevant at all for this paradox. It's dodging the question.
But actually, despite what you are trying here, you did answer: GOD IS NOT WILLING.
So we can conclude god is worse than Hitler who (together with an army and a christian nation) did evil to "only" 6 million people...instead of billions as god does
ispaniola 1 year ago 11
Now the typical answer is that people choose to do evil with their free will
Why this is a load of nonsense is pretty easy to see
-We didnt choose to exist in the first place. God made us together with our free will (see below why free will doesnt even exist), and god is omnipotent and omniscient. So for the sake of his sick soul game to send some people to heaven, he chose to let billions of people exist who he knew would use their "free will" and would need to send those to hell for eternity
ispaniola 1 year ago 28
@ispaniola so if free will doesnt exist, then god designated my life to go from christianity to satanism to atheism. An "all powerful 'loving' god" is plotting my demise. That doesnt sound loving. Certainly my mother would never put me in a postion as such. In such a case, god would be malevolent.
God creates us, right? Thus, he must create our soul. Why would a benevolent creature give us, let alone make, impure souls to begin with? God does not exist. If he did, he would not be perfect.
HamimIsagod 1 year ago
- Finally, free will doesnt exist if you believe in god (perhaps also when you dont believe in god btw)
Free will is not a thing or entity you can give somebody. It can only be an attribute of the tools than can perform it. If you believe in god, that tool is probably your soul. God made our soul, so he knows exactly how it works. He knows before he even create one living thing, exactly what people in what situations would do evil because of how their soul works.
ispaniola 1 year ago 21
@ispaniola hahah
hardxxcorey 1 year ago
@ispaniola Free will can still co-exist with god. You are not a product of how you are made. You are a product of your experiences. That is why religion, food, accents, the decisions you make, etc, are all according to where you live. Show of hands, how many of you american born people beleive in Hinduism? been around for a mighty long time a major religion. They get the same feeling you do in your gut. The one that says "this must be right". A lot are willing to die for their religion and do.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
@ace1122tw
LOL, at least you try to think for yourself instead of choosing the comfort of being accepted and respected as a member of a major religion.
The only "but" is that I couldnt count the number of mere assertions you made without any reason or logic behind it...
The one you gave a reason for, actually refutes your own argument.
If our "soul" chooses on the basis of external experience, then your soul is not free it's deterministic.
ispaniola 1 year ago
@ispaniola Anything anyone says about god or religion is based on faith...or assertions. I was showing you my logic. I have many reasons to base off what I say as fact, if you want me to write a book I guess I could. Too me the reasons seem to stand out. In every religion you have a soul or a higher self of some kind. That soul goes somewhere and does something else when you die. It sounds like a video game to me. So many connections in all religions. You just have to see the dots.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
@ispaniola I did not ever refute my arguments. I never said the "soul" makes a decisions. Your brain does. You are the creator of your own destiny. Do you remember your whole life? Those things you do remember, do they influence your life? Do you think there are things that you probably should have remembered? Do you think some of your experiences would have affected someone else differently? Its up to get out of life what you want. Your free to see and do things anyway you want.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
@ace1122tw
GhahaNever mind, you dont make sense at all.
You agree on determinism yet you dont...LOL
ispaniola 1 year ago
@ispaniola When did I say I don't agree? Like I said do you remember all of your life experiences? If your bike gets stolen and you forget about it, do you think your next bike will get stolen again? Lets say there is a thousand different things you can learn from the same experience. I say that cuz I see it everyday. Do you think you caught all those things and remembered them? No. Did you have the chance to? Yes.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
@ispaniola Basically you can either see the light from a situation or the darkness, a thousand fold. Both light and darkness are always there. but you choose the way you act on what you perceived. There is always determinism but there is a thousand ways to interpret your environment.....Do you see what I am saying? I am trying to make sense of it myself, so I probably do not make sense.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
@ispaniola You can definitely give freedom to someone or something. There must be a god. I am not christian and I beleive all Christians are idiots. but that is for a different discussion. Its obvious you can give someone free will. God does it every day. The people you call "evil" or the person you call "Satan". He lets them do whatever they want. I have seen things that people do. If that stuff does not deserve you to get punished right then and there, then nothing else really matters.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
@ispaniola If god created you and he knew you were going to be evil and he cared enough to punish you later. Why wait? God works in mysterious ways! Bull shit. Maybe he doesnt care. Maybe eternity is a long fucking time. Maybe this thing you call evil is a catalyst to teach you something. Maybe god sees that this is just a video game. There is no evil. Pain exists only in this life as a sensation of this body. He designed everything in this world for us.
ace1122tw 1 year ago
@ispaniola I made the choice to exist. I love existing its practically all I do. This is not some sick soul game. If you beleive that, then kill yourself. But you were right, the Christians are wrong and idiots for believing that crap. Why would god love you and completely fuck you over. My parents would never fuck me over like that, they sorta love me. I would never fuck around with eternity neither would god. This is all a video game, no one designs video games for you not to experience it all
ace1122tw 1 year ago
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ispaniola 1 year ago
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ispaniola 1 year ago
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visuals4you 1 year ago
what a load of shit you said you where going to answer the question what a waste of my time
MrDasmaster 1 year ago
then he's not impotent
orcaran 1 year ago
Is it just an issue of timing?
What you speak of you believe by faith. Let that be enough. You don't answer Epicurus' argument.
MrEdifaceWrecks 1 year ago
It always makes you look foolish or ignorant to start your argument by mocking the the differing opinion.
So what if God is sovereign? If he is infinitely compassionette and and caring and wants the best for us then stop the evil before it brings harm to what he loves.
He perhaps doesn't think we believe is evil is in fact evil? Did he not create us in his own image? Did he not inspire the bible as a moral guide? Then how is what we consider evil not what he considers evil?
MrEdifaceWrecks 1 year ago
It's not your responsibility? Wow, that is a profound thought...
you reap what you sow, I think I have heard that somewhere...
also, I choose not to live in fear of an angry god. Any God that disapproves of what I am doing can change me any time he wants...that is if he exist as you define.
and if he truly does exist, I hope his noodley appendage bless you with his meatball goodness
RAmen
Entropyisgoingtowin 1 year ago
So basically he can stop evil but doesn't because he is working within his own agenda and time scale. I think that falls into the malevolent category.
prodigy00073 1 year ago
I think it's interesting that you try to answer the questions of a person who is MUCH smarter than you
OutdoorAdventure100 1 year ago
You say that God has a different definition of evil than us. So did Hitler. Just because he thinks it is good, doesn't mean it is. Likewise, just because he thinks it is bad, doesn't mean it is. You say God has a different timeframe than us. Omnipotence would imply being able to do anything at any speed. If you were seriously injured and there was a doctor nearby, he would be just as malevolent for taking a month to help you as he would be for not helping you at all.
Skillbus 1 year ago 2
Here's a question for you sir- If God removes all the evils of life then what will we have to define good with?
Hellsingkyer 1 year ago
agreeed. we are created with free minds. you choose to be good. 1+1=1 we are all one
djaris714 1 year ago
so we are god and in the problem why call us god if we don't do it are self's, their for we're in a bind
sand703 1 year ago
cow was evil pop into existance then you prick?
ShaNagmaImmuru 1 year ago
2:20-2:25
hmmm
"that he could stop evil if he wanted to, that he does desire to stop evil"
so he does want to but does not
snofthndr 2 years ago
I think the very fact that after more than 2000 years christians/jews/muslims etc are still trying to answer this riddle says a fair bit in of itself...
sanzar 2 years ago
Video didn't answer the second half of Epicurus's question:
"Then where does evil come from?"
CatharticWeek 2 years ago
Evil exists so god can punish it?
Thats even more twisted than god just ignoring evil.
SinfulMessiah 2 years ago
Evil is all relative. What we consider evil may not be what another culture (being) may consider evil. And what we've been taugh that evil is, and must coexist with what we consider good.
lllusionx 2 years ago
Then how can god punish evil if it is relative? Christians do not believe evil is relative btw.
Furthermore, suffering is a better word to use. Why does god allow needless suffering when he has the power to prevent it? Because it has to coexist with pleasure?
We need suffering children in the world so that others can have pleasure. Is that the best an omnipotent god can do?
SinfulMessiah 2 years ago
Haha...epicurus..
Anywho, I personally dont believe that god even watches us.i believe that, yes he exists, & may watch us, but he has no direct effect on us that isnt already pre-determined like events of "biblical proportions". (happenings like the rapture), otherwise we have our own free will, and OUR actions relate to what happens to us. some may be more lucky in this respect, but everyone has a chance to be whatever. if something turns out evil, then that is how it was nurtured to be.
lllusionx 2 years ago
Free will is an illusion. From any view point it doesn't exist and even in a reality where it did exist you would be forced to give it up if you wanted to get into heaven. God requires servitude and punishes the use of "free will" in any manner not to his liking. Open your mind and explore the possibilities outside of religion before you decide your beliefs.
ZeroPoint88 1 year ago
Christians always feel this overwhelming need to prove the existence of their god. Why so defensive? You know, if you had never posted this video, I would still know what Christians think about Epicurus. Christians boisterously tell us what they think about everything. BTW the Bible isn't fact, it is a hypothesis written by a lot of people who were alive when the Earth was still flat.
aeon23 2 years ago
I think you've made an honest attempt at trying to apply logic to find a resolution to these questions, but have not understood the logical extremes assumed in the nature of the questions themselves.
In the context of Epicurus' largely rhetorical riddle, he asserts that if God were both able and willing simultaneously, then the mere presence of evil in itself is a paradox. For if He willed and He were able, it would simply not exist.
robwgibbons 2 years ago
why does god need glory from us? why does god love us?
rumit99 2 years ago
god invented mercy but invented hell also( hell is not mercy); angel are happy from the start, we, the childrens of god, are sinners and we need to win our happines( irelevant).77x77mercy but invented hell... hes vanity and gelousy is way bigger than any person on Earth. We made GOD after our image not GOD made us after his image.
THEkidKIZU 2 years ago
But God, by definition, is omnipresent, meaning that He exists in every place, in every time. He can't operate on His own time if He exists in all of time. Meaning at this very moment He exists in today, but also tomorrow and yesterday, etc. Since that is so, why didn't He stop the evil at its birth? He created everything thus He created evil. Why did He do that? Why make His creation suffer? Isn't it so convenient for you to say that God is omnipresent but still operates on his own time?
aozf05 2 years ago
answer this...
If god is soberan, and he is not acting in the same "time" we are...
can't he just go ahead time?
If he is just delaying the "evil end" hes being irresponsable of his creation.
anderesaxc 2 years ago
Isaiah-45:7
creator of evil.
ha ha ha
why did you do what i created you to do?
billygundum 2 years ago
Does God have an opinion about the person who stands by and allows other people to commit evil, who sees suffering and can ease it, who can help the poor and the sick but stands by and does nothing. Isn't that evil too?
Well, God can do all those things -- he can prevent the killing, prevent the suffering, ease the poor, heal the sick.
And instead, he does nothing. Not only does he allow the suffering, he's the source of much of it.
How then, except by definition, is he not evil?
prodprod 2 years ago
God is not on our timetable. That is your answer? That an omni-powerful being can't relate to our timetable and interact appropriately? Say for example stop a teenage girl from getting gangraped because his timetable is not the same as ours? Maybe your omni-uber God needs to get a better a watch. Seriously, grow up! There is no gods!
viper8red 2 years ago
a much simpler and much more reasonable explanation is that good and evil are relative, good cannot exist without evil and vice versa. Therefore, if there is a god, He would most likely not destroy evil if it meant it would destroy good.
natdogrocker 2 years ago
The problem there is whether or not that actually JUSTIFIES all the pain and unanswered meaningless suffering in the world. I don't think it does.
In other words, are the good things in the world really worth all the suffering?
SinfulMessiah 2 years ago
@natdogrocker: Going back to the riddle: if evil and good are relative and God created both, then evil comes from God( ansr to "Whence cometh evil") This also qualifies as malevolence (per the riddle) and as an "all-good" being cannot be malevolent then God is not all-good. If God is not all-good than how is he better than a human despot besides being stronger and (per the Bible) immortal?
BiffWebster100 1 year ago
evil was created here on earth. God simply just is. And life just is. We were created to help one another and live a happy life. evil was created here on earth.
djaris714 1 year ago
Is there any way you can talk more about the answer, and interrupt with more random slides?
I dont think you do that enough
mickiew4 2 years ago
so in other words.. god put us on this earth to suffer and watch bad things happen.. and then when he gives us every reason to think that he does not exist.. he will send us straight to hell for eternity.. seems like god is a bit of a control freak.
chunkemm 2 years ago
GOD BLESS YOU
diwfaou 2 years ago
Looks as if we have not got a chance. If God exists and has been around too long for our small minds to comprehend then to God we must be ignorant tiny and inignificant. We can not know his mind & he would not care to know our minds, dreams, hopes, fears & pain. He put 2 people in a garden & allowed a serpent or angel who was much brighter than they to manipulate them. Why? Unfair, they were unprepared & never even knew what manipulation of that kind was.Does God blame the babies?
AssilemakaMelissa 2 years ago
The eubola virius infects an Africian village causing children to die in agonizing pain. If God is control, then how is he not the source of evil?
OckhamsRazor72 2 years ago
i am an atheist, but i sincerely respect your attempt to answer the "riddle', for the unexamined life is not worth living, and you ARE a philosopher and others might even see as a prophet. you seem to be a good human being, as well as a scholar, i hope you have a great journey in life, thank you for the video.
oscargurses 2 years ago
Setting aside other mistakes for now, and recognizing probably a thousand people have made this point already, your answer has the logical problem that evil can't be solved after the fact. If you torture an innocent person, giving them $50 million later does not undo the evil, even if it placates or "satisfies" the victim. He or she still WAS a victim. The point Epicurus made is unassailable: either God likes evil, or there isn't a God (in the conventional sense of being all powerful).
WCFieldsGhost 2 years ago
Byzantium. That's you. In the true faith there is no forgiveness for evil.
Pooknottin 2 years ago
i donsed be God! i punish people who use thar brains that i donsed give them to rationalize.
shakamaster007 2 years ago
I don't care to throw my life away kowtowing to the childlike whimsy of some bored, jealous, selfish omniscient creature, if he/she/it does even exist.
spongekill 2 years ago
also he allows natural disasters to happen to kill a lot of people, then he allows evil doers to do evil and kill a lot of people, but won't do anything about it until he's ready because our 'evil" is not "evil" to his eyes...but it was listed in the bible as his words in red...ok?
i say he doesn't exist.
FREEAMERICANOW69 2 years ago
someone else died for what i did? YAY
btw what is this wonderful god waiting for?
lordrazi111693 2 years ago
This atheist appreciates your humility in applying logic to religion. One minor comment on "It's not my claim that I know everything there's to know about everything"...implies you know ALL there's to know about something and/or you know somethings about EVERYTHING and/or you know somethings about somethings and/or you know nothing at all!........... So I assume you meant "You know somethings about somethings ", that would have been a better way to start the video.
n.b if(exists(God)) God=Evil;
fasika96 2 years ago
then he is malevolent.
Kingsnake1 2 years ago
First off, Epicirus wasnt just asking about his knowledge and willingness to prevent evil...it was about his proposed unconditional love as well. If you truly love someone, and it is within your power to prevent them harm, you cannot justify not doing so and still claim love for them. You've solved nothing by misconstruing the ACTUAL challenge set by Epicurus. He cannot be all powerful, all knowing and all loving with the existence of evil.
domino1492 2 years ago
'desire for self"
this is what creates what we call evil.
everything evil (aside from natural disasters) is created because of this desire.
what kind of god gives us this ability of a ego, and then "punishes and condemns" us for it?
a fictional one i would think. yet in Catholicism the priests have a lot of answers and little questions themselves. what fun is that?
Trunkfoot 2 years ago