Van Rompuy to UN: Europe takes up its global responsibility

[catalinaguerrero]

van rompuy is reading what the rothschilds wrote for him word by word. he doesn't even understand the shit he is spouting out.

[financialtools1]

Van Rompuy : EU can/must think ahead for consumers/workers: RIM-Blackberry , with a MarketCap of 10 billion Euros is a very important company supported over the years by consumers and taxpayers ( official contracts ) in Canada,USA+EU, the value of RIM for D-T,Ital-Tel, Fr-Tel,Telefonica, etc., is very high, and the loss of assets, patents, jobs and technology is very bad for all consumers and workers in these EU markets and worldwide. financialtools1.blogspot.com

[TheSheeplealarmclock]

saint 

[Didacta10]

Who the fck is this guy! Sanctions???!!! Right!!!

[financialtools1]

VanRompuy : EU banks re-capitalization must focus exclusively on new JOBS ,training, loans to medium/small businesses and Long Term Growth,Local Manufacturing of Solar-Wind-Wave-Hybrid electric plug-in motors-Fuel cells-Fusion Reactors+natural organic family farming and EXPORTS, and NOT for bankers bonuses/perks and speculative trades & shorts= EU TOGETHER should/can/must launch a 1 trillion Euro new Clean Industry and Local Manufacturing = UNITED , financialtools1.blogspot.com

[levenbrown]

The illegitimate EU Constitution/Lisbon Treaty

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[levenbrown]

The EU's version of democracy ...

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[levenbrown]

Another video worth watching on how unelected bureaucrats tolerate opposition ...

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Whether you agree with the sentiment or not is not the point ... it illustrates how opposition and other points of view are not tolerated in the UN ... The EU is much worse! - Hey! It's 'democracy' ... as long as you agree with and do what we say!!!

[levenbrown]

Teranex gotta go buddy ... got some EU flags to burn! (just joking) ... I'll be back tomorrow.

The thought for tonight is that democracy is too precious for nation states to give or have it taken away. Wars have been fought to preserve that right.

The EU has gained power slowly and stealthily as to avoid detection. It has not taken the people with them just their political class. If the EU is to continue it must get democratic, it must give citizens the referendums they deserve on membership.

[levenbrown]

Here is some essential watching on the EU, the commission and the 'parliament' ...

v=bM2Ql3wOGcU&feature=related

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Perhaps @teranex - you should watch ...

[levenbrown]

The EU commission exposed ....

v=npU3g5YnD4A

[calangodoido]

Herman Van Rompuy may not be the antichrist..but he sure looks like it.

[westernciviliznation]

When did Muslims turn their faces towards Russia and communism and the United communist Nations, I wonder.... to anyone against Israel; but it will be doublecross when Internationales coup d'etat the flow of money and assets in the Middle East.

[kiche83]

“If you wish to be a success in the world, promise everything, deliver nothing.”

[levenbrown]

PS:- I would like @EuroSon99 and @Teranex to admit to us which department of the EU, EU dependent institution, EU grant/fee receiving company or political party they work for ...

Nobody I have ever met is Pro EU without a financial or political vested interest of some sort. The public are sick of the EU, the stealth, the deceit and the way they are treated by them - if you don't believe us then give us an EU wide referendum on whether we want the EU and the Euro or not! Then you'll find out !!

[levenbrown]

@Teranex Sir/madam - it is not me who feels the need to hide behind an avatar. If your idea of being ignorant about how democracy functions means that you embrace unelected, unaccountable and unremovable bureaucrats running your affairs for you then you are entitled to than opinion.

The EU has eroded national democracy and is an entirely unnecessary layer of dangerous self serving government and there is nothing that the EU has 'achieved' that could not have been done by simple co-operation.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown A)You are also "hiding" behind an avatar, so don't give me that. B)In which country are the bureaucrats elected, tell me? In every country you got party elections same as in the EU, then the winning coalition appoints people. Its the same in every country. Thats how democracy works. C)The last time i looked national democracy still works, so your claims are not based upon any facts. D)" nothing that the EU has 'achieved'"-Again you didnt enforce this argument by any facts.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "hide behind an avatar"-You are doing the same, so don't give me that. In no democracy are the "bureaucrats" being elected, they are appointed by the winning coalition/party, thus the EU works the same as any democracy. Calling EU illegitimate is the same as calling every democratic government on earth illegitimate. And they are removable, which i have shown numerous times, yet you seem to be in denial of facts.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex I think you'll find I am not ! - google me! but you ARE hiding behind an avatar!

They are removable?

Ok tell me how as a voter how I can vote to remove either the commissioners. In fact tell me if all of the British MEP all ganged up and voted against somebody like Mr Barosso could he be removed ?

I'll save you the bother the answer is no. So if Mr Barosso was ardently anti British the British people & MEPs do not have the power to remove him ... Sickening!

[Teranex]

@levenbrown " I think you'll find I am not !"-All i see is levenbrown, if that is your real name or not or some nick i dont know nor i care so we are in an eqal postion here. So dont start to divert attention just because you cant reply on an argument.

" how I can vote to remove either the commissioners"-How can you remove the US president by voting? You cant because thats not how the system works. Other then that after 2014 you can submit a petition of 1 mil people requesting his removal.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex Reply to and argument - it is you who is trying to convince us all that unelected bureaucrats holding the whip hand over nation states is some kind of democracy even when the people don't have a say in whether they want this or not !!

Which part of the EU machine do you work for?

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "British MEP all ganged up and voted against somebody"-They could but as in any democracy they need a majority, so they would need a majority support in the parliament. As already said one commission was already removed once in 1999, so the answerer is yes. So don't play a troll here by ignoring obvious facts. The commission can be removed and it already happened once. I don't know where your hate stems from but removing persons which do a good job makes no sense.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "simple co-operation"-If that was true then the EU wouldn't be a sui generis entity in the world. "eroded national democracy"-Again untrue, the national democracy remains an internal part of the democratic legitimacy bestowed upon the EU. Thus national democracy matter very much in the EU. "anti-democratic route"-If the EU was undemocratic then the EU parliament wouldn't get more and more power at the expense of the ECom/ECou, in fact there would be no parliament.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex The EU is unique! It is a body who hasn't had its accounts signed off for 16 years yet lectures people on how to run their economies, it talks of democracy yet doesn't believe in it!

The parliament is a sham! It is more or less run by consensus and there is no effective opposition - mutual back scratching at best like the ussr ! - anti democratic!

EU law is superior to nation state law, EU law must be enforced - without the consent of the people - Anti democratic and no legitimacy!

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "Anti democratic and no legitimacy"-It seems you don't know how a representative democracy works. The EU Parliament (Elected by the people directly) and the CEU (Representing the member states of the EU aka their governments which were also elected by their respective citizens) pass laws together, which makes them democratically legitimate. "best like the ussr"-Saying that the EU and the USSR is the same as you would say that Churchill and Stalin are one and the same lol.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown And please may i get an example where a government was "unelected" AKA citizen have ended the mandate of a government by un-electing them before the term of the government was over (I wasn't State, Date, and the name of the leader of the government) so I see what your obsession with un-electing people is all about.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex my point simply is that these people have actively avoided election and referendums by the people they are supposed to represent and the people have no real means of removing them.

They created HV-R's position and gave themselves more power over the democratic nation states by deceit in the Lisbon treaty.

Your idea of democracy is very different to mine! The EU's existence should be put to referendum. If they wish to govern/represent people they must first have their DIRECT support.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "have actively avoided election"-EP everyone is elected, council of the EU and European council everyone is elected. European commission is appointed by elected delegates, as per the system of representative democracy. Thus no your statement is wrong. " idea of democracy"-There is only one real democracy in existence, which is the representative democracy. Which is being fully enacted by the EU. So if you prefer to live in a peoples republic go to china. Bet they are more democratic.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown Per your perception the president of the US holds its position illegitimately as he was not directly but only indirectly elected by the people lol. Even trough the US is one of the top democracies in the world. "The EU's existence should be put to referendum"-Every state before entering the EU had referendum on entering (Except for the founding members). Thus the membership of every state within the union is legitimate as well the union itself is as states entered voluntarily.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex I am starting to think your job in something to do the the EU !? I am whiffing vested interest all over your 'arguments'.

The President of the US faces tough public scrutiny and people vote for him and his party on the basis of policy.

In the EU you vote for your, non entity, MEP and thereafter there is no public scrutiny for the appointment of commissioners and/or the president let alone their policies!

The EU is not only undemocratic it is anti-democratic !

[levenbrown]

@Teranex You are putting words into my mouth - I didn't say 'unelected' (which is rich because they weren't elected in the first place!) I said 'removed' ...

The simple fact of the matter is that the EU is, at best, deeply flawed and unaccountable. They haven't even had their accounts signed off for 16 years and they always want more money!!

Not a penny more until they give referendums to the people and have their accounts signed off ...

People do not want the EU they want their nations back

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "how I can vote to remove either the commissioners"-"You are putting words into my mouth"-Ya sure I am (Sarcasm). You said VOTE to remove, so next time you might wanna recall what you have written. "deeply flawed and unaccountable."-The EU consists out of the member states which created it in the first place, if your country doesn't like something EU says,it can veto a decision and you are fine.Any decision made in the EU was made with the consensus of the government of your country.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex

You seem to be confused about elected and appointed ... the MEP's are elected the rest are appointed behind closed doors and usually without opposition. The parliament is powerless and a sham, the power resides in the commission - who are unelected.

The people who form policy in the EU are not accountable to the people - end of story.

Surprisingly people don't like that about the EU!? Along with the lies, deceit and corruption!

All nation states are better off out of the EU.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "the rest are appointed"-You seem to be confused on who is the representative in the council of the EU (Aka ministers of members state governments) and the council of Europe (Heads of state/government) thus the states and people are represented. The commission is effectively the government of the EU, which is not being direct elected but is appointed by the winning party/faction as in EVERY DEMOCRACY ON EARTH. You clearly don't have a clue how democracy works.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "EU are not accountable to the people - end of story."-They are accountable to the european parliament which is elected by the people as you yourself said. Which means that they are acocuntable to the people. One commison was already disbanded in 1999 thus yes they are accountable.

"All nation states are better off out of the EU"-We have seen what happens in Europe when there was no EU. Over 200 wars in the last 2000 years.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex ""EU are not accountable to the people - end of story."-They are accountable to the european parliament which is elected by the people as you yourself said. Which means that they are acocuntable to the people. One commison was already disbanded in 1999 thus yes they are accountable."

- Really? Our MEP's do not tell us who they are going to vote for in fairness they probably don't know .. so how do we vote for somebody who is anti-Barosso? especially if he is the only candidate!

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - Listen Teranex ... if you really want the EU to work for the people. You must support more direct accountability.

The commissioners should be current MEP's, they should have to outline their policies with the people of europe and there should be an opposition with their commissioner candidates that we may choose instead.

Frankly I'd rather get rid of the whole lot of them - they are expensive, useless, unelected and unaccountable - they serve their own agendas not the peoples ....

[levenbrown]

@Teranex The more I read your posts the more I get worried about the EU ... you are desperately trying to paint a picture of democratic legitimacy where there simply is none. You are insisting that people who have never faced the public with their policies and who are 'appointed' are elected and accountable - they are not.

It is time the member states gave their citizens a free and fair referendum on their membership of the EU. Then @Teranex you will see how popular your pet project really is!

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "legitimacy where there simply is none"-You just don't know what a democracy is that is your problem.

"a free and fair referendum on their membership of the EU"-Every member state till now had a referendum on membership. You just seem to be ignorant of the fact.

As already stated in no democracy is the government elected directly, but its appointed by the winning party/faction. Thus per your opinion no government on earth is legitimate.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex ":"a free and fair referendum on their membership of the EU"-Every member state till now had a referendum on membership. You just seem to be ignorant of the fact." -

No they didn't !! at best they had a referendum on a single market - not a political and/or fiscal union!

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "No they didn't !!"-Yes they did. Tell me one country that didn't, except for the founding members.

"vote for somebody who is anti-Barosso"-Depends what you consider anti baroso. If you mean someone who is socialist instead of conservative vote for the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, if you want to vote for someone who isn't anti EU vote UKIP. The president of the commission is always from the party who won the elections, thus there is a choice of 8+ parties.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - Which part of the EU propaganda machine did you say you worked for again ?

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "machine did you say you worked for again"-EU has a propaganda machine. Now thats something i didn't know. Can you give me a source :)?

Are you ready to support a European federation? Because that is what you are looking at with your direct elections. Other then that i cant recall any democracy where someone is directly accountable to the people, he is accountable to the parliament which represents the people.as is the commission.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - No I am ready to support my countries withdrawal from this insane and anti democratic political project - the vast majority of UK citizens now support our withdrawal and the sooner it comes the better.

Britain can have a free trade agreement and that is where the relationship with the EU should stop.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown Belive it or not, but as soon as the UK leaves the EU it will lose more Independence as it will gain it, as being a part of a free trade agreement with the EU, means that you have to accept anything the EU says or be thrown out of it no matter if you agree with it.

"Yes in this country it is called the BBC"-If you don't like what the BBC says watch Russia today, al-jazeera or fox news. They have much better news.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - Free trade agreements are negotiated and do not all have the same terms.

Britain is in a very strong position though I'd love to see the EU get rid of one of their largest export markets when throwing their tantrum at the UK for leaving the EU ... They need us more than we need them. If they want to play hardball they are the net losers in terms of revenue - not us - more fool them!

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - ""Yes in this country it is called the BBC"-If you don't like what the BBC says watch Russia today, al-jazeera or fox news. They have much better news."

The sad truth is that the BBC receives ECB loans - over £300 million so far. Many Journalists are commissioned to do articles for the EU and a 'shmoosed' at our expense. The EU has systematically 'bought' the press like it has 'bought' so many politicians and MEP's.

The flags, the anthem - EU propaganda is everywhere and unwanted !

[levenbrown]

@Teranex ""machine did you say you worked for again"-EU has a propaganda machine. Now thats something i didn't know. Can you give me a source :)?"

Yes in this country it is called the BBC !

Why don't you just come clean - you work for the EU don't you ?

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "you work for the EU don't you"-I don't. I just take pleasure disputing opinions which are based on complete ignorance of facts.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex Not sure I believe you! hehe ....

I take pleasure in unpicking the argument that the EU is democratic ... In truth though it doesn't take much unpicking! EUrophiles I have always found have a very warped view, at best, of Democracy and accountability - their arguments are extremely weak, convoluted - point in case your comments suggesting the Commission was accountable to the people ... when it is plain for all to see that it is far from being accountable.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "Not sure I believe you! hehe ...."-I dont care if you do or dont as it doesnt change anything.

"EU is democratic"-The EU has all the elements of a democratic state. Thus it is a democracy. Anything else is just a double standard when it comes to comparing the democracy of your national state and the one of the European union. You are saying that the commission is not accountable while its a fact that the parliament can and did disband the commission.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex "Not sure I believe you! hehe ...."-I dont care if you do or dont as it doesnt change anything. - Touche! - bet you do work for them ....

[levenbrown]

@Teranex "EU is democratic"-The EU has all the elements of a democratic state." - FALSE

A healthy democracy does not have unelected commissioners who are not subject to direct public scrutiny.

We can fire our Prime Minister directly by not voting for him or his party - we cannot fire Herman or Jose !! - yet they hold the real power in the EU and the EU now makes 75% of our laws. That is not democracy, that is not in our national interest and is another reason we should leave the EU.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown " unelected commissioners who are not subject to direct public scrutiny."-You don't seem to understand the commissioners are the same as ministers in every state which are not elected but appointed. You don't seem to know that commissioner=minister and commission=government.

"we cannot fire Herman or Jose"-Those leaders of intuitions are appointed by the party which WINS the EU elections. So they will be "fired" if EPP loses the next elections.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown " EU now makes 75% of our law"-Thats not true and beyond any kind of fact. The only one who claimed that is the leader of the UKIP and he didn't present any proof which would support his claim.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - " EU now makes 75% of our law"-Thats not true and beyond any kind of fact"

There is evidence supporting a figure of 84% ... but even if it was 1% it too much. The EU should only be in a position to recommend actions to nation states and EU law should be subservient to state law. That way they could perhaps justify the anti democratic setup!

But these monkeys want their cake and to eat it. They want all the power and none of the 'hassle' of being accountable to the public..

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "evidence supporting a figure of 84%"-There is no evidence of that because you didn't show any, thus your statement is a claim and invalid for any argumentation. " 1% it too much"-That further shows how biased you are towards the topic.

"some EU flags to burn"-Thanks for subsidizing the industry by doing so.

" EU is to continue it must get democratic"-It works the same as any democracy on earth. The problem is no matter how democratic it is you wont ever accept it.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex Ok - I am going to try and explain this in terms anyone can understand - maybe there is a language barrier here.

UK Parliament (and any healthy democracy) - government member must hold a 'seat' directly elected by public, parties and government put their case to the people and there are many potential governments who put their case to the people - the people choose.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown ""I am going to try and explain this in terms"-"What relevance has being a former MP?"-"The Government here is comprised of MP's ALL of whom have been directly elected by the people"-This as you claim that they are not."- Already replied on this and then you ask me what reference does that have lol.

"put their case to the people"-This is called a referendum. And it doesn't necessarily increase the legitimacy of the government, but often shows its inability to make a decision.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex cont ..... EU - MEP's elected with no manifesto, who then in turn appoint people to government who have not been elected by the public without opposition or putting their case to the people - the people cannot choose.

There is a 'subtle' difference - can you see it ?

[Teranex]

@levenbrown " elected with no manifesto"-Eh they are where were you at the European elections? If there was no opposition in the EU it would be a one party rule, but contrary to your belief there are 8+ parties in the parliament, thus there is an opposition.

"genuinely democratic"-Just admit it, no matter what kind of government form would the EU have, you would still say its undemocratic etc, so if there cant be a right standard, that means that you are highly biased.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - "some EU flags to burn"-Thanks for subsidizing the industry by doing so."

No problem - happy to help!!

[levenbrown]

@Teranex "" EU is to continue it must get democratic"-It works the same as any democracy on earth. The problem is no matter how democratic it is you wont ever accept it."

It is tough for any citizen to see their democracy being sold down the swanny. If it was to a genuinely democratic and helpful regime you are right I still wouldn't give up our right to govern ourselves and make our law subservient to the foreign power.

Governing one's own country by democracy is what we need - not the EU.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown A goverment is not elected, its appointed by the winning party. If you cant conprihend that, then you have an extremly flawed vison of how democracy works.

"one's own country by democracy"-There is a reason why there are European elections. But you seemed to have been not paying attentions. And the government you elect in your own country is represented and the EU and has veto power on all decisions, so you can be sure your government agreed to any directive the EU has passed.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - You quite clearly are choosing not to recognise the difference between elected and appointed and the fact that the commission is simply not democratic nor accountable to the people. It's very structure prevents public scrutiny and they actively have ignored the people of Europe. This is not the way other democracies are run and some simple research, if you choose, will illustrate this. Probably to your horror. ...

[levenbrown]

@Teranex You quite clearly are choosing not to recognise the difference between elected and appointed and the fact that the commission is simply not democratic nor accountable to the people. It's very structure prevents public scrutiny and they actively have ignored the people of Europe. This is not the way other democracies are run and some simple research, if you choose, will illustrate this. Probably to your horror.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "the difference between elected and appointed"-You quite clearly are ignoring what i have written. A government is APPOINTED by the party which got ELECTED. READ. The commission is accountable, the example in 1999 is proven as the people are represented by the parliament which has the power to disband the government. You don't seem to know how a democracy works. The commission as any government can be exchanged if a different party wins the elections as in EVERY DEMOCRACY.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex Lets just agree that you love the EU and you are happy that they boss your national government around, take your money for their pet projects and force you to take part in bailouts and follow their ridiculous directives. I'd rather we ran our own countries, resources and politics without diktat or interference from an illegitimate foreign power with no democratic mandate.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown The people don't have the power to disband a government unless they start a revolution, the only institution within the state which has the power to disband the government is the PARLIAMENT. My country is an equal member as every other member within the EU. If any decision made in the EU would be against the vital interests of my country, all it would have to do is to veto the decision. As such no decisions which are against the interests of my country within the union can be made.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown There is no reason for the current commission to be disbanded as they do a good job (I know you with your bias wouldn't recognize that no matter what they would do), the commission in 1999 was disbanded as they were accountable for their actions, were they not accountable for their actions then they could do what they would like and not be disbanded. That is what it means to have accountability. Its the ability to get sanctions for the missteps you have committed.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex OK, You are entitled to think like you do.

EU is as democratic as any other parliament if you only look at previous soviet or some african models where referendums are ignored, unwanted legislation passed and the people are disenfranchised - I'll agree with you on that!

You still haven't got your head round this direct public scrutiny where politicians/leaders are directly accountable to the people - don't they have that in your country? Is that why you don't understand it?

[levenbrown]

@Teranex As citizens we deserve better than the EU. The Euro has been a disaster, the EU is wanting ever closer union without the consent of the people. The EU has none of the foundations of democracy - there was no need, no mandate and the people have been divorced from the expansions of the powers and the creation of its laws.

The EU will not survive without democratising. Thankfully they are so anti democratic they cannot see this - like you - the people and the markets will rip them apart.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown The commission being disbanded by the European parliament in 1999 is absolute proof that the commission is accountable for its acts.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex "The commission being disbanded by the European parliament in 1999 is absolute proof that the commission is accountable for its acts."

It is proof that the commission has to be caught in criminal acts and brought to the public eye before the parliament will do anything!

The people cannot remove commissioners directly as they can proper democratic politicians/governments. Thus the huge democratic deficit that exists in the EU and why people will never believe in or trust their flag.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "It is proof that the commission has to be caught in criminal acts and brought to the public eye before the parliament will do anything!"-And that means being accountable to the people. You are just too full of double standards to recognize that.

"The people cannot remove commissioners directly"-You never even bothered to explain this direct removal of yours. But no government on earth can be removed by the people other if they start a violent coup.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "The people cannot remove commissioners directly"-If you by directly mean by elections, then yes the commison will be removed if the winning party which appointed them on the beggining will lose the elections as in every democratic goverment.

"people will never believe in or trust their flag"-I am one of the people, thus your statement is overinflated and wrong.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "when it is plain for all to see that it is far from being accountable"-As already said in every state which is considered democratic the only institution which can disband the government is the Parliament. The Parliament is the institution which represents the people and is directly elected by the people. A government in comparison is appointed. If you don't recognize the same for the EU then you have a clearly a double standard going on here.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - There is no double standard - you are just trying to make out there is one as it suits your weak hand.

The Government here is comprised of MP's ALL of whom have been directly elected by the people - the people know who they are and what they stand for. The people can remove them directly at election time.

The EU has commissioners who do not have any scrutiny by the people, they do not share a 'manefesto' which we can directly accept or reject and we cannot remove them in elections.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown " your weak hand"-Its you who is claiming stuff while the facts clearly show otherwise.

"The Government here is comprised of MP's ALL of whom have been directly elected by the people"-Same in the EU. Everyone who is a part of the commission was a former MP, which can also be removed at election time.

And i already told you how they can be removed so don't act as if i didn't write anything. You are clearly in denial.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex - "Same in the EU. Everyone who is a part of the commission was a former MP, which can also be removed at election time." What relevance has being a former MP?

Fact:- Commissioners are not elected as MEP's then further appointed to 'higher' duties as they are in almost every other democracy to get into government. They bypass the getting elected and having to explain themselves to the people bit!! Therefore it is impossible to argue they are accountable to the people.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "What relevance has being a former MP?"-"The Government here is comprised of MP's ALL of whom have been directly elected by the people"-This as you claim that they are not.

No they don't in no country when you are appointed minister you would have to explain your agenda, because you are appointed by the winning party.

"It is proof that the"-Is there any good reason why the commission should be disbanded? Other that you want it to be disbanded for no reason at all?

[eViLJ666]

did he mean demockracy ?

[achtung07]

Errr... how do you vote for this man ?

[levenbrown]

@achtung07 We didn't vote for him ... he was appointed by more people we didn't vote for! It is really ironic that he is speaking about democracy when he is the product of the EU's distain toward democracy.

The people never asked for him, they never wanted him, he was not elected by the people, he is not accountable to the people, he cannot be removed by the people - that is the EU's version of 'democracy'.

It has taken power arrogantly by stealth without consent, this is why the EU will fall.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex You've just proved my point with thanks and the same goes for Mr. Barosso and so many others - he was appointed not elected, the people never asked for him and the people cannot remove him therefore he is not accountable and behaves so. Referendums have been ignored by the EU and the people have been deliberately kept out of the process.

This is why the EU is so hated and why the people will eventually get their say and put a stop to this quite obscene anti-democratic Empire.

[Teranex]

@levenbrown If he was elected directly by the people then the EU would become a federation a situation which would suit me fine. And any government in the world is appointed by the leading coalition and is NOT elected indirectly, same as the European commission, thus per your argument no government in the world is actually legal. And EU is perhaps hated by you but not by the people overall. I'm also one of those "people" and i certainly don't hate the EU. Hate is something Nazis utilize.

[levenbrown]

@Teranex Yes, perhaps that is why they are burning EU flags in Greece and drawing swastikas over them?

The EU like the Nazi's and the Soviet Union has more in common with an autocracy than democracy. The commission and the president are appointed behind closed doors by people we don't know they are not accountable or removable to/by the people.

Now you seem like a clever person ... what do they normally call an unelected, unaccountable, unremovable leader?

[Teranex]

@levenbrown "EU flags in Greece and drawing swastikas over them?"-They are doing the same with the US flags all over the world, it doesn't mean that everyone hates the US. If you are calling the EU like the Nazis then you clearly don't know what Nazism is. If the EU was like the USSR then you would get already shot and would have no freedoms. Rompuy is accountable, he is removable and he is appointed by people which are representative delegates and have the democratic legitimacy to do so.

[levenbrown]

@achtung07 We didn't vote for him ... he was appointed by more people we didn't vote for! It is really ironic that he is speaking about democracy when he is the product of the EU's distain toward democracy.

The people never asked for him, they never wanted him, he was not elected by the people, he is not accountable to the people, he cannot be removed by the people - that is the EU's version of 'democracy'.

It has taken power arrogantly by stealth without consent this is why the EU will fall.

[EuroSon99]

Where were you during the European Elections? The fact is you do vote directly and indirectly for national and EU Representatives. And we might not vote yet directly on an the European (council) President but that would mean Europe would be more seen as one nation or more like a UK of Europe. It will probably happen sooner or later since even people like Tony Blair and many other high level politicians have suggested it. The US didn`t have directly elected presidents at it`s beginnings either.

[levenbrown]

@EuroSon99 We never voted for the creation of the Euro, the creation of the EU or any of its institutions. The fact that we vote for MEP's is irrelevant - they have no real power and in real terms no legitimacy like the EU. Their very existence is an affront to democracy.

We were promised referendums in the UK and our political class then went back on their promises because they knew what our answer would be and that would upset the EU. That my friend is no way to run a healthy democracy.

[EuroSon99]

I think we can agree that the Euro`s membership was overly ambitious. Too large too soon. I want the Euro strong and eternal. I am sick and tired of changing currencies every-time i`m traveling beyond Holland.

Also much of the EU itself was created before i was born. On top of this many people in Scotland have long demanded to finally be allowed to Vote on leaving the UK. Voting to finally leave the UK as so many Scottish want has still not happened. So we see double standards everywhere.

[levenbrown]

@EuroSon99 I think we can agree that the EU and the Euro should have been much more democratic from the start and that people feel real resentment to 'wannabe' overlords who have ambitions beyond their station and who hold no mandate with the people. The EU will fail because 'political' will is not the same as the peoples will. The people have never been asked and have been actively mislead and ignored.

The people do not have double standards. The same cannot be said by EU/local politicians.

[EuroSon99]

As i said before, there are many leaders who would like to see a directly elected EU president. This will eventually happen (if the EU can pull through the coming years). Rome wasn`t build in a day. And despite that you can`t just blame it on 'not-enough' EU democracy. As if nations in the EU and beyond do it differently. If people could actually vote on policies they would have long voted to allow Zero Debt to be held by their national governments. People are sick of their governments in debt.

[levenbrown]

@EuroSon99 I'm afraid that doesn't wash. The EU have had four decades to become democratic - they have chosen the anti-democratic route every time. They are beyond reform and the concept has never been subject to the ballot box.

It is time to break up this version of EU and if they or you are serious about democracy and being good Europeans they will hold free and fair referendums in every country before attempting such power grabs ever again. The people can only be ignored for so long.

[EuroSon99]

Again. The fact is we do have European Elections. And Electing a head of state directly isn`t even done in many European nations since many have Parliamentary systems. In the Netherlands this is true as well. We elect a party. That party will have it`s leader. Or multiple parties form a coalition. It seems you are just biased against EU if you don`t acknowledge reality. Again: If there were many people against Europe we would see more Anti-EU officials being elected Nationally and in the EU.

[Jononutoob]

@EuroSon99 Look at your name... And you arent biased?

[gniewkoslawny]

@EuroSon99 true, what you have just said is logical. Many will agree that's the only answer, but having been witness to communism - not everything is as logical and strait forward as some are trying to illustrate ;) but please don't get me wrong I'm not insinuating that EU is just Communism ver 2.0

Imagine state is controlling TV, Radio, Press. What would peoples state of mind be like? Would you say then, that elections are truly democratic, and the party elected will truly rep. people?

[Leifthrasir]

@achtung07 By federalizing the EU.