Peter buries this guy, it's too funny...econohack vs. an active capitalist who works to earn his money. Absolute joke. They don't understand s single thing about real economics and the sad part is that they teach!! Unbelievable.
Also anyone who says there was an "ass kicking" is deluding themselves and hearing what they want to hear. Neither side clearly made their case in a compelling way. Schiff is loud and makes a lot of assertions, but doesn't really respond to the few clear points the others make. I'd like to see one of these one on one, and with clear post debate fact checking on the youtube video. That would be awesome.
I found this rather unsatisfying. They talk at cross purposes and Schiff doesn't really let anyone respond until the very end. The topic isn't defined tightly enough to lead to substantial discussion. Moderation was needed.
Money is itself a regulation,,, it is a regulation on waste,,, Interest rates is a regulation,, it is a regulation on capital and risk... Reputation is a regulation,, it is a regulation on safety... Property rights is a regulation,,, regulations on environmental problems...
The free markeds have tons of strict regulations... You don't need collectivist centrally planned regulation from the government.
Peter doesn't give anybody a chance to speak. He thinks that by overwhelming his opponents mouthing off the way he does, he automatically wins the argument. 5:15 or so: Ha Joon is TRYING to tell him that Singapore's government owns 80% of the country's land. Schiff's defence is that it's not paradise but he continues by saying that people there are mostly free economically. Wow, out the window goes their sacred property rights. That's quite a radical shift for a socalled free-marketeer.
Second, nowhere does Ha Joon claim that anywhere anybody is living in a free market! Again, if you read his book you will see that he argues that there can NEVER be such a thing as a "free" market as ALL markets are underpinned by rules and regulations that are necessary for them to function at all. Just because you take for granted the rules doesn't mean that they don't exist.
First of all, Ha Joon Chang is emphatically not a socialist, read his most recent book: 23 things they don't tell you about capitalism. He believes capitalism is "the worst economic system ever invented EXCEPT for all the others". He defends capitalism but does not support the polar extreme opposite ideology of communism, the fairy tale called the "free" market.
Hate to break it to the libertarians here, but the massive tariffs the Americans slapped on foreign imports in the 19th century were not indicative of a "free market." They were, however, sound policy, without which American manufacturing would not have taken off in the glory years that Schiff praises so much.
Whenever someone doesn't have a valid argument for why free banking doesn't work, they can always rely the sheeple to fall for: "that's what they had in 1900's, and there was slavery too"
Schiff claims that SOEs produce 40% of the US GDP (against Chang's assertion that it is only 1 percent).
A first order mistake. He confuses government spending with SOE output. They are not the same thing, nor are they measured together.
And indeed Singapore controls about 20 to 22% of GDP through enterprises either directly owned by the ministry of finance or through Temasek holdings. Government spending itself is about 10 percent or so.
amazing blaming "free market capitalism" when they actually bailed out bankrupt banks. which went bankrupt, because of too low rates. In a free market the banks would go bust. It would hurt, but it SHOULD! Now every taxpayer has to pay for the idiotic poleticians who made it happen, not just the ones directly involved.
@FierceGuppy the song is wrong. In capitalism you dont bail out anyone. At any circumstance. Yes it hurts sometimes. It HAS to. Otherwise banks specifically will have no problems gambling with your money. Bailout has to happen from the market. Either that other banks buy them up or they are split up and sold off after bancruptcy.
Free market capitalism has yet to be tried. It probably never will happen. But more restrictions and burdensome regulations is NOT the way to go.
@mlm82 errr... Actually, the lyrics and I are in complete agreement with you. Look for "Fight of the Century: Keynes vs. Hayek Round Two" on Youtube. It's got 1.5 million hits so I thought there was a good chance you would have seen it already.
It would be great to listen to the whole discussion; another help would be, if someone transcripts, what Mr. Ha-Joon Chang said, because too often I understand just half of it and guess the rest.
@ItsAllAboutGuitar That's not what they said. They said that he was arguing only from that perspective, and that he needed to broaden his argument to be convincing.
@rastamasta91 They said he's privileged. That has nothing to do with the validity of his economic arguments. In fact, he's been smart, worked hard, and made good decisions to acquire wealth. If anything, that strengthens his arguments.
Even if he was born with a silver spoon, he's still smart. A lot of trust fund babies become worthless bums and blow it all.
@ItsAllAboutGuitar Being privileged doesn't mean you aren't smart or hard working. It does mean that you should be aware of the advantages you started with and consider the implications. Ha Joon-Chang was born speaking Korean and in a poor undemocratic developing country, he also had to work hard to get where he is. The fact is that Peter uses almost exclusively examples that support his view and dismisses the others. That is why they accuse him of being blinded by his privilege.
"Peter Schiff likes economic freedom, therefore he likes slavery" What F-IN idiots. That just shows how pathetic the Keynesian's are having to go to the absolute last resort.
Dubbleoj, I think you misunderstand Peter Schiff. Government creates these loopholes for these big business' to donate and lobby in their interests, and thats what most people miss.
Schiff is right a lot, but continues to discount how big business interferes with government, which in turn interferes with business.He defends the 1% because he is one,but does not differentiate himself,an independent investor,from the big conglomerates/hedge funds that rule government with their lobbying practices.he blames the government for everything without advocating the discontinuation of lobbying in congress.hes successful for being competent but doesnt call out those who arent
These school economists should go out and use their knowledge to run business successfully instead of preaching from books. USA has a lot of problems due to bad politicians/government and corrupted investors/bankers who profited from bailouts and our tax money. People want free market - less regulation/interference from government, low tax, good infrastructure, high skilled workers, freedom of speeches/individuals, safe, small government, low debt, and small business supported programs.
Peter can be outspoken, but I don't care because he's correct on so many economic issues. We should welcome free trade and a minimally regulated atmosphere, central planning always fails. I want to throw the Road to Serfdom at Chang's face and ask Schiff for a job.
What these bonehead academics do not understand is that slavery still exists. We have a tax ID numbers and we have a Social Security numbers. This is a form of branding like ranchers do to their cattle. When government owns a part of your labor, that means they own a part of you. Social Security was supposedly never used for identification purposes but we all know that is a lie. Try applying for a job, a loan, medical care, school, etc without a Social Security number and see what happens.
I would love to see them debate again with a longer duration. Then we could see how well thought out Schiff's free market fantasies really are. Ha-Joohn Chang is Schiff's worst nightmare, an economic historian who actually knows the historical facts that disprove all his notions of economic prosperity being tied to laissez-faire policies. In fact all periods of growth and prosperity throughout history have always come from easy money (not gold) and from protectionist policies.
lol Ha-Joon Chang makes the absolutely correct and necessary point that when America industrialized and prospered throughout its history it was the most protectionist country in the world, and the British empire was pushing free trade, showing how "American" free trade is. Ofc Schiff had no answer to any other point he made so I'm not surprised. Schiff makes his money trading stocks and derivatives, exactly what is wrong with the economy today. Industrial output down, financial services up.
This is amazing, they keep saying that Peter comes from the Chicago School of Economics. I don't think any of these guys on this panel has ever heard of Austrian Economics. Austrian Economics focuses on reality. Unlinke these guys who focus on fanatasy thinking they know what is best for people by centrally planning people's lives. Freedom is the answer what is the question?
Sounds to me like Peter Schiff is the only one up there who runs an actual business. While the others are just well educated professors regurgitating passages they've read from books.
If Chang wants an example of too much government regulation destroying peoples lives just look at whats going on up north. People don't defect to South Korea because they have BETTER limits on freedom through regulation, but less limits on freedom.
FUCK HA JOON CHANG.
63muhammad 2 days ago
Peter buries this guy, it's too funny...econohack vs. an active capitalist who works to earn his money. Absolute joke. They don't understand s single thing about real economics and the sad part is that they teach!! Unbelievable.
plodej 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Is the title of this video a joke?
Peter Schiff got stomped here despite the way he kept talking over Chang.
Look at the way this clown tired to uses Singapore as an example when 22% of their GDP is state run enterpirises while the USA is 1%.
MsZeitgeist85 1 week ago
Comment removed
MsZeitgeist85 1 week ago
This reminds me of arguing with all the intellectually bankrupted students in my senior Econ seminar. I feel sorry for them.
Drummond1783 2 weeks ago
Also anyone who says there was an "ass kicking" is deluding themselves and hearing what they want to hear. Neither side clearly made their case in a compelling way. Schiff is loud and makes a lot of assertions, but doesn't really respond to the few clear points the others make. I'd like to see one of these one on one, and with clear post debate fact checking on the youtube video. That would be awesome.
rastamasta91 3 weeks ago
I found this rather unsatisfying. They talk at cross purposes and Schiff doesn't really let anyone respond until the very end. The topic isn't defined tightly enough to lead to substantial discussion. Moderation was needed.
rastamasta91 3 weeks ago
Money is itself a regulation,,, it is a regulation on waste,,, Interest rates is a regulation,, it is a regulation on capital and risk... Reputation is a regulation,, it is a regulation on safety... Property rights is a regulation,,, regulations on environmental problems...
The free markeds have tons of strict regulations... You don't need collectivist centrally planned regulation from the government.
bjarnet3 3 weeks ago
Peter knows his shait
superhawkn 1 month ago
Peter doesn't give anybody a chance to speak. He thinks that by overwhelming his opponents mouthing off the way he does, he automatically wins the argument. 5:15 or so: Ha Joon is TRYING to tell him that Singapore's government owns 80% of the country's land. Schiff's defence is that it's not paradise but he continues by saying that people there are mostly free economically. Wow, out the window goes their sacred property rights. That's quite a radical shift for a socalled free-marketeer.
wdednam 1 month ago 3
Second, nowhere does Ha Joon claim that anywhere anybody is living in a free market! Again, if you read his book you will see that he argues that there can NEVER be such a thing as a "free" market as ALL markets are underpinned by rules and regulations that are necessary for them to function at all. Just because you take for granted the rules doesn't mean that they don't exist.
wdednam 1 month ago
First of all, Ha Joon Chang is emphatically not a socialist, read his most recent book: 23 things they don't tell you about capitalism. He believes capitalism is "the worst economic system ever invented EXCEPT for all the others". He defends capitalism but does not support the polar extreme opposite ideology of communism, the fairy tale called the "free" market.
wdednam 1 month ago
Thanks for the upload! I appreciate it. I've been following Peter Schiff's work since 2006/2007.
moonraven3 1 month ago
Also, does no one here find it problematic that no example of the "free market" ideal can be cited as a successiveful case-in-point?
SteinhauerJohn 1 month ago
@SteinhauerJohn Sound money was very real back then. Days spent waiting on government permit to open a business is very real too.
mootant 1 month ago
Hate to break it to the libertarians here, but the massive tariffs the Americans slapped on foreign imports in the 19th century were not indicative of a "free market." They were, however, sound policy, without which American manufacturing would not have taken off in the glory years that Schiff praises so much.
SteinhauerJohn 1 month ago 5
Whenever someone doesn't have a valid argument for why free banking doesn't work, they can always rely the sheeple to fall for: "that's what they had in 1900's, and there was slavery too"
RealLiveDebates 1 month ago
5:55 or so.
Schiff claims that SOEs produce 40% of the US GDP (against Chang's assertion that it is only 1 percent).
A first order mistake. He confuses government spending with SOE output. They are not the same thing, nor are they measured together.
And indeed Singapore controls about 20 to 22% of GDP through enterprises either directly owned by the ministry of finance or through Temasek holdings. Government spending itself is about 10 percent or so.
Scientisticsoviet 1 month ago
subtitles for the korean guy please
samlau121 1 month ago
WOW Peter was surrounded! lol did it brave...
argenta86 1 month ago
subtitles were needed for the Chang's talking. I barely understood.
cupocity303 1 month ago
i need subtitles
Combat79 1 month ago
amazing blaming "free market capitalism" when they actually bailed out bankrupt banks. which went bankrupt, because of too low rates. In a free market the banks would go bust. It would hurt, but it SHOULD! Now every taxpayer has to pay for the idiotic poleticians who made it happen, not just the ones directly involved.
mlm82 1 month ago
@mlm82 As the song goes:
Capitalism is about profit and loss.
You bail out the losers there's no end to the cost.
FierceGuppy 1 month ago
@FierceGuppy the song is wrong. In capitalism you dont bail out anyone. At any circumstance. Yes it hurts sometimes. It HAS to. Otherwise banks specifically will have no problems gambling with your money. Bailout has to happen from the market. Either that other banks buy them up or they are split up and sold off after bancruptcy.
Free market capitalism has yet to be tried. It probably never will happen. But more restrictions and burdensome regulations is NOT the way to go.
mlm82 1 month ago
@mlm82 errr... Actually, the lyrics and I are in complete agreement with you. Look for "Fight of the Century: Keynes vs. Hayek Round Two" on Youtube. It's got 1.5 million hits so I thought there was a good chance you would have seen it already.
FierceGuppy 1 month ago
It would be great to listen to the whole discussion; another help would be, if someone transcripts, what Mr. Ha-Joon Chang said, because too often I understand just half of it and guess the rest.
MrKostol 1 month ago
When will people learn... Never debate Peter Schiff. You will lose! LOL
TheMEK3 1 month ago
big headed professors? nothing new here.
NinkasiDelight 1 month ago
I want to slap everyone around Peter.
HG2013 1 month ago
can't believe that stupid Korean looser is educating people
Tomta20012 1 month ago
"Peter, you're very privileged (therefore your economic predictions are invalid???)" Ugh.
ItsAllAboutGuitar 1 month ago
@ItsAllAboutGuitar That's not what they said. They said that he was arguing only from that perspective, and that he needed to broaden his argument to be convincing.
rastamasta91 3 weeks ago
@rastamasta91 They said he's privileged. That has nothing to do with the validity of his economic arguments. In fact, he's been smart, worked hard, and made good decisions to acquire wealth. If anything, that strengthens his arguments.
Even if he was born with a silver spoon, he's still smart. A lot of trust fund babies become worthless bums and blow it all.
ItsAllAboutGuitar 3 weeks ago
@ItsAllAboutGuitar Being privileged doesn't mean you aren't smart or hard working. It does mean that you should be aware of the advantages you started with and consider the implications. Ha Joon-Chang was born speaking Korean and in a poor undemocratic developing country, he also had to work hard to get where he is. The fact is that Peter uses almost exclusively examples that support his view and dismisses the others. That is why they accuse him of being blinded by his privilege.
rastamasta91 3 weeks ago
"Peter Schiff likes economic freedom, therefore he likes slavery" What F-IN idiots. That just shows how pathetic the Keynesian's are having to go to the absolute last resort.
ItsAllAboutGuitar 1 month ago
@ItsAllAboutGuitar
Liberals make that slave argument constantly. It's ridiculous.
TimeWarp66 1 month ago 2
Dubbleoj, I think you misunderstand Peter Schiff. Government creates these loopholes for these big business' to donate and lobby in their interests, and thats what most people miss.
Silbaugh4liberty 1 month ago
Schiff is right a lot, but continues to discount how big business interferes with government, which in turn interferes with business.He defends the 1% because he is one,but does not differentiate himself,an independent investor,from the big conglomerates/hedge funds that rule government with their lobbying practices.he blames the government for everything without advocating the discontinuation of lobbying in congress.hes successful for being competent but doesnt call out those who arent
dubbleoj 1 month ago
where the hell is the moderator?
evangrogers 1 month ago
Wish I could understand more of it. The audio is horrible.
miknos2 1 month ago
These school economists should go out and use their knowledge to run business successfully instead of preaching from books. USA has a lot of problems due to bad politicians/government and corrupted investors/bankers who profited from bailouts and our tax money. People want free market - less regulation/interference from government, low tax, good infrastructure, high skilled workers, freedom of speeches/individuals, safe, small government, low debt, and small business supported programs.
jamescc2010 1 month ago
Schiff: "I have more money in Singapore than you can count!" LOL, I love Peter Schiff, he kicks ass big time!
adipredescu1990 1 month ago
I'm so glad someone calls Schiff out on America being the most protectionist country in the world.
Salvysahagun 1 month ago
Peter can be outspoken, but I don't care because he's correct on so many economic issues. We should welcome free trade and a minimally regulated atmosphere, central planning always fails. I want to throw the Road to Serfdom at Chang's face and ask Schiff for a job.
ImhoffInstruments 1 month ago
What these bonehead academics do not understand is that slavery still exists. We have a tax ID numbers and we have a Social Security numbers. This is a form of branding like ranchers do to their cattle. When government owns a part of your labor, that means they own a part of you. Social Security was supposedly never used for identification purposes but we all know that is a lie. Try applying for a job, a loan, medical care, school, etc without a Social Security number and see what happens.
nomoreserfs 1 month ago
I would love to see them debate again with a longer duration. Then we could see how well thought out Schiff's free market fantasies really are. Ha-Joohn Chang is Schiff's worst nightmare, an economic historian who actually knows the historical facts that disprove all his notions of economic prosperity being tied to laissez-faire policies. In fact all periods of growth and prosperity throughout history have always come from easy money (not gold) and from protectionist policies.
TheAntiMalthusian 1 month ago
lol Ha-Joon Chang makes the absolutely correct and necessary point that when America industrialized and prospered throughout its history it was the most protectionist country in the world, and the British empire was pushing free trade, showing how "American" free trade is. Ofc Schiff had no answer to any other point he made so I'm not surprised. Schiff makes his money trading stocks and derivatives, exactly what is wrong with the economy today. Industrial output down, financial services up.
TheAntiMalthusian 1 month ago
sweet....absolutely badazzzz...
d97gr5 1 month ago
This is amazing, they keep saying that Peter comes from the Chicago School of Economics. I don't think any of these guys on this panel has ever heard of Austrian Economics. Austrian Economics focuses on reality. Unlinke these guys who focus on fanatasy thinking they know what is best for people by centrally planning people's lives. Freedom is the answer what is the question?
nomoreserfs 1 month ago
I'd like to see the whole thing.
Peter was honestly a little rude to the one guy, but I don't know if anything was said to lead up to that.
bearcat648 1 month ago
Sort term memory from Schiff. Friedman was advising the Republicans in the 1980s/1990s, He was an academic too.
boils 1 month ago
Sounds to me like Peter Schiff is the only one up there who runs an actual business. While the others are just well educated professors regurgitating passages they've read from books.
MrJobado 1 month ago 17
@MrJobado That's academia for you. These days anyway.
Signed,
A Recovering "Academic."
Jordoom777 1 month ago
@MrJobado FUCK PETER SCHIFF.... he's the problem and a capitalist elitist!!
SilverNrGy985 3 weeks ago
@SilverNrGy985 how manny people work for you?
tonyteb 2 weeks ago
@SilverNrGy985 Moron.
deadflagbluesxxx 6 days ago
@SilverNrGy985
Fuck you motherfucker socialist
63muhammad 2 days ago
they have no idea his on their side.
PURAHOUSEDERESTREPO 1 month ago
If Chang wants an example of too much government regulation destroying peoples lives just look at whats going on up north. People don't defect to South Korea because they have BETTER limits on freedom through regulation, but less limits on freedom.
mojobo 1 month ago
nice, Peter FTW.
Thumbs up if you like FREEDOM
MrEurgbp 1 month ago 28