The NKT been banned from 3 UK university campuses (and universities in Europe) due to over-aggresive recruitment. Why are the NKT undergoing ANOTHER Charity Commission audit for accounting irregularities? Why are they listed as a cult by Cult Information Centre and the Cult Awareness Network? Why have questions been raised in the UK Parliament by Liberal Democrat MP's about the NKT's recruitment methods? The NKT are a creepy, money-grabbing cult
They don't even study Buddhist scripture, but just teach from Gyatso's books. Dorje Shugden formed no part of Tsongkhapa's teaching, hence why they only teach from gyatso's books not the traditional Buddhist scriptures. There monks protest at the Dali Lama's visits over an issue they are ill informed about. Gyatso has being expelled from the Monastery and sect he claims to be teaching from.
These guys are bad news, dangerous and should be avoided. They are not what they seem.
the nkt is a creepy, money grabbing cult; they've been banned from the campuses of 6 uk university campuses for over-aggresive recruitment, and banned from university campuses in france, germany, austria and the netherlands. a mate of mine has just left the nkt after a 15 year stint, and was pretty high-up in the organisation; he could tell you stuff about their cult-like behaviour that would make your toes curl....
To gron77 and markyorkshire: The NKT is not a system to teach you how to become a Buddhist scripture specialist. This is a tradition that teaches you how to put Buddha's teachings into practice, what I can see is that HH DL instead of being happy for the spread of Buddha's teachings through a qualified spiritual guide he is jealoucy of him for not being able to to the same throughout the world
Five years since leaving the cult, and I still haven't been able to put together a modicum of daily practice. I know the NKT does not have ownership over the Dharma, but I find it a lot harder to practice without the support. I find it a lot harder to practice without the benefit of receiving teachings. There is nothing in my area for meditation centers OTHER THAN THE FREAKIN' NKT! They're everywhere, in disguise. All the websites of their local centers are like "meditationin______ dot orrg."
It should be made clear that Shugen worship itself violates religious freedom, because Shugden does not allow followers to practice other schools than the "pure Gelug school". Those who practice other schools "mix the pure doctrine" and will be killed for that "crime" by the deity Dorje Shugden, or they will at least be punished by a terrible sickness and finally die a horrible death.
The Kadampa Center is part of the FPMT centers which follows the lineage of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Geshe Kelsang is not the head of this Center. Please, investigate your thoughts before you write false information about a buddhist center that you don't know anything about. Thank you!
Please don't get FOOLED by Kadampa Buddhism. My heart aches when i see the degenerating of pure teachings of buddha into spirit worship.
The head of this center "Geshe kelsang gyatso call himself 2nd buddha and all the scriptures in Kadampa are distorted and the only books allowed in this center are strictly composed by him to serve his interest. Stop fooling people and give religious freedom and free information. Do ur research. U've other options of Great dharma Teacher
I've heard of this center before but I am confused by seeing H.H. the Dalai Lama's photo here..Geshe Kelsang doesn't hang HH photo..I didn't get what really it is!
These kadampas never talk about other schools of Buddhism or make any reference during talks about other Masters or teachers. They are way too serious as well....
This Centre is not conected to the NKT, It says quite clearly at the top that this is a FPMT centre.Maybe you could be a bit more cautious before you start spreading mis-information. I don't know if you are aware that Kadam refers to the teachings of lord Buddha as presented by Ven' Atisha. Geshe Kelsang has never refered to himself as the second buddha, where have you heard him say that? Please stop spreading wrong and hurtfull speech.
For those just starting to read these comments, a few points:
FTMP is NOT the New Kadampa Traditions (Geshe Kelsang Gyatso). NKT sprang out of the FTMP. FTMP is more closely allied with the Tibetan Buddhist Movement and Dalai Lama.
I was VERY involved in NKT for many years, and finally left because I found them to be sectarian and cultish. I do think the whole Shugden thing is silly, but the NKT makes a bigger stink about it than anyone! It is a big blemish on all of Buddhism. BOTH SIDES!
Namaste sddesigner, I see your point as I myself have witnessed politics in Western Dharma Centres and come across practitioners who think they know better than you. It's probably best to practice alone and my teacher often refers to Zen, Tibetan and even Taoism which the NKT do not.....all others Tibetan Schools and religions are irrelavent within the NKT.
You are probably right, True authentic Dharma can only be taught by enlightened ones. Self practice and silence can help you to attain realizations quickly.
You don't want some novice breathing down your neck. Geshe Kelsang didn't make the NKT secular, his followers did, which is bad news when he retires.
Though I'm a follower of the Theravada Forest Sangha, I have been to 3 summer festivals of the NKT and found them to be very usefull in my practice. There is no harm in listening to other Gurus Wisdom, but I think Buddhism should avoid becoming Secular. Peace.
I'm pretty sure this is a centre within the Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition, not an NKT centre. The FPMT is a wonderful, authentic organization within the Gelug lineage. If anyone has a connection to great master Je Tsongkhapa, I suggest you check out the FPMT. Steer clear from the NKT at all costs.
Why is the FPMT an authentic Gelug lineage and the NKT not? Dont the NKT follow their lineage gurus practices and teachings? I have friends in the FPMT and they get bennefit which is great. I practice in the NKT and i have received alot of bennefit and only had good experiences from my sangha. I think it's best for people to try stuff out for themselves and make their own minds up about what path to follow.
Thats not correct logic. So anyone who doesn't rely upon Dulzin as their Dharma Protector is following an authentic lineage, even if they have abandoned their lineage guru's saying they were not authentic?
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Yeah, pretty much.
If your lineage guru is having you do something that is not in accord with Dharma, it's your duty to stop that practice after determining it is incorrect. The influence of Dholgyal within the Gelug school has compromised parts of the school. The Ganden lineage is not corrupt, don't get me wrong. There are still, obviously, realizations. However, one must keep away from NKT and groups such as that.
I agree, dont perform actions that are not in accord with Dharma. Can you tell me what parts of the school have been comprimised? Surely if the lineage gurus were wrong and cant tell the difference between a spirit and a Buddha then the whole lineage is corrupt?
Dorje Shugden is relied upon as a Buddha by many Gelugpa masters. What do you think about the DL relying upon the undisputed demon spirit Nechung?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
It has compromised the blessings that come through those teachers who practice/practiced Shugden, especially Pabongkha. The blessings coming through the lineage are based on keeping samaya. Pabongkha's negative actions violated this and damaged the blessings of the lineage passing through him.
Luckily, your idea that Pabongkha, Trijang et al were the sole lineage holders of the Gelug tradition is false.
Guru Rinpoche bound Nechung. There is no problem relying on him for worldy concerns.
I didn't say they were the sole lineage holders, but they are in the lineage of the majority of Gelugpas including the DL.
I dont believe Je Pabongkha performed negative actions, especialy when these stories come from people who perform such actions themselves. Many people try to discredit our lineage, destroy our holy statues,split our sangha,ostricize practitioners, so hypocitical. I have never met a Dorje Shugden practitioner who does this.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Actually, they are not the lineage masters of His Holiness for everything. HHDL has actually stated that His primary root guru was Tragda Rinpoche, not Trijang. Kirti Tsenshab Rinpoche, one of the greatest masters of our time, was separate from Pabongkha's lineage.
Pabongkha definitely performed negative actions. He was viciously sectarian, actively encouraging a General in the Kham area to forcibly close down Kagyu, Sakya and Nyingma monasteries. He was a sectarian bigot, clear and simple.
Thank you for making your views clear. I have different views about such matters. I wish you all the best in your practice of holy dharma. May all beings come under the care of Guru Buddha and be swiftly released from illusion like suffering! Om mani padme hum
Actually there is a Kadampa Summer Festival happening right now in the North of England. It makes no difference if you are Zen, Tibetan or theravada....It's the same Noble Path.
It's the same path but different means of practicing on the path. That being said, there is different emphasis on different practices and different ways of accomplishing certain goals. The goals are not even the same, the goal of Theravada practice being the state of an Arhat and the goal of Mahayana/Vajrayana practice is the state of a full Buddha. Therefore, it's quite easy to see that while the paths may be similar they are still quite different. Nothing wrong with diversity, though. :)
I am a Theravada Buddhist from the Forest Sanga tradition and I have been to the New Kadampa Summer Festivals. I don't study their teachings but I see NO flaws in them. Though The New Kadampa are catered for the westerners, their teachings are as good as any other school. Peace.
No offense, Venerable, but this issue doesn't concern you as a Theravada practitioner. You likely know little to nothing of the intricacies of the issues regarding the NKT or the practice of Dholgyal.
The practice of Dholgyal, which is a mistaken practice and, in my opinion, causes a lot of the other issues you find in the NKT, from sexual abuse to the fact that it's a personality cult.
I guess the majority of the Gelugpa tradition must be wrecked by Dulzin Dorje Shugden as the most prominent masters of the last century relied upon him in some way? Domo Geshe,Pabonkhapa,Trijang,lama yeshe,song rinpoche, geshe Rabten,and even the 13th DL. Most of the FPMT's lineage masters were Dorje Shugden Practitioners. Do you think the DL is right and all these masters are wrong, hard to believe. If you believe this, this has sad implications for the Gelugpa Lineage.
The 13th Dalai Lama opposed the practice of Shugden, actually.
It's not a matter of His Holiness being right. Yes, He does happen to be correct but the facts of the issue stand on their own weight. They don't need anyone's authority to verify them besides that of any learned scholar. The Gaden Tri Rinpoche has spoken against the practice, as have His Holiness Sakya Trizin, Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, HH Karmapa and many other eminent masters.
So you are saying the lineage gurus of the Gelugpas are wrong, and that masters of other lineages have the authority to criticize the Gelugpa practices(interesting). The 13th relied upon Domo Geshes famous Dorje Shugden oracle to make some big decisions, he always followed his advise. How come the DL always says the 5th was against Dorje Shugden even though he was one of the first to rely upon him, the evidence can still be seen(statue and prayer)?
It's a personality cult surrounding Kelsang Gyatso. All main books are written by him. The vast majority of practitioners have no other teachers. Empowerments from resident teachers only come through them but are actually from Kelsang. Both main programs within the NKT are made up of texts composed entirely by Kelsang.
The sexual abuse is the fact that both Deputy Spiritual Directors before the current one had to leave their posts due to knocking a few nuns up.
Following Geshe Kelsang as our root guru, i dont think this makes the nkt a personality cult, Geshe-la hardly seems to have much of a personality. He rairly mentions himself in his books or teachings. His books are so beautifuly clear and well presented, perfect for serious study, he never caims to be special allways defering back to his root guru. Have any other teachers written such a complete collection of authentic Dharma books in english?
No, of course not. Just like following HHDL does not make one part of a personality cult.
However, I have other gurus. I have other teachers, take other teachings, read other texts and commentaries, etc. As far as I can see there is a focus on Kelsang to the exclusion of other teachers and/or teachings. Then there's the fact that Kelsang's programs of training are the ONLY ones I know of that use books written by only Kelsang. I think that says a lot by itself.
I think it shows Geshe-las great kindness and effort to make Lama Tsongkhapas teaching easily accessible to modern people. In the monasteies they have their own 'jig cha', it is like this in the NKT. Geshe-las books have consistent terminology that makes it easier to get to the meaning.Geshe-la is my guru, i study Dharma presented by him. I still enjoy reading books by other teachers and traditions, i just dont study them in the same way, this life is short why make more work for myself.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Dharma is dharma and should be studying.
I find the NKT focus on only Kelsang's books to be a fault.
It's all well and fine for you to study Kelsang's commentaries and the like. I do the same with my gurus but I don't do it to the extent of ignoring others, which is what I find occuring in the NKT.
Very Sad what happened with the old Gen-la's. I dont think it counts as sexual abuse. It's not just in the NKT that people break their vows and dis-robe it's all over the place. A geshe in my home city said to one of our monks on this subject that back in his monastery(Drepung i think) every year many people would get ordained and many would dis-robe. Very sad, but people have delusions in samsara. Pray for them.
I would say it does. Abuse of a position of power to take advantage of another sexually. I'd say that's sexual abuse. Then the fact that the NKT tried to cover it up for a while before finally admitting it. The whole "Samden stepped down from position of deputy director to go into retreat" was an inaccurate statement to say the least.
Monks are human, that's right. But add on to this the fact that Samden wasn't even a monk, it was covered up, etc. There seems to be a bigger issue here.
The reason there are no pictures of the DL, is because he is not our Guru. He has abandoned our lineage of gelugpa practice, saying that our lineage gurus and masters such as Pabhonkhapa,Trijang,Tomo Geshe, Lama Yeshe are wrong and were spirit worshipers. There are no pictures of Christ or Gordon Brown on our centre shrines either! I have books from other traditions, but i dont study them at my centre. Geshe Kelsangs books are perfect for indepth study.
The NKT been banned from 3 UK university campuses (and universities in Europe) due to over-aggresive recruitment. Why are the NKT undergoing ANOTHER Charity Commission audit for accounting irregularities? Why are they listed as a cult by Cult Information Centre and the Cult Awareness Network? Why have questions been raised in the UK Parliament by Liberal Democrat MP's about the NKT's recruitment methods? The NKT are a creepy, money-grabbing cult
magnatron2010 11 months ago
They don't even study Buddhist scripture, but just teach from Gyatso's books. Dorje Shugden formed no part of Tsongkhapa's teaching, hence why they only teach from gyatso's books not the traditional Buddhist scriptures. There monks protest at the Dali Lama's visits over an issue they are ill informed about. Gyatso has being expelled from the Monastery and sect he claims to be teaching from.
These guys are bad news, dangerous and should be avoided. They are not what they seem.
markyorkshire 1 year ago
the nkt is a creepy, money grabbing cult; they've been banned from the campuses of 6 uk university campuses for over-aggresive recruitment, and banned from university campuses in france, germany, austria and the netherlands. a mate of mine has just left the nkt after a 15 year stint, and was pretty high-up in the organisation; he could tell you stuff about their cult-like behaviour that would make your toes curl....
gorn779757 1 year ago
@gorn779757
You´re right.
But this Kadampa center is NOT NKT. No Shugden practice. Geshe Kelsang is not the head of this center.
Varavaken 1 year ago
To gron77 and markyorkshire: The NKT is not a system to teach you how to become a Buddhist scripture specialist. This is a tradition that teaches you how to put Buddha's teachings into practice, what I can see is that HH DL instead of being happy for the spread of Buddha's teachings through a qualified spiritual guide he is jealoucy of him for not being able to to the same throughout the world
alexggable 1 year ago
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Five years since leaving the cult, and I still haven't been able to put together a modicum of daily practice. I know the NKT does not have ownership over the Dharma, but I find it a lot harder to practice without the support. I find it a lot harder to practice without the benefit of receiving teachings. There is nothing in my area for meditation centers OTHER THAN THE FREAKIN' NKT! They're everywhere, in disguise. All the websites of their local centers are like "meditationin______ dot orrg."
NKTsurvivors 1 year ago
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It should be made clear that Shugen worship itself violates religious freedom, because Shugden does not allow followers to practice other schools than the "pure Gelug school". Those who practice other schools "mix the pure doctrine" and will be killed for that "crime" by the deity Dorje Shugden, or they will at least be punished by a terrible sickness and finally die a horrible death.
cIoserelative 2 years ago
This center is not connected to NKT.
Varavaken 2 years ago 2
NKT; creepy, money-grabbing cult
pantydetection 2 years ago
The Kadampa Center is part of the FPMT centers which follows the lineage of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Geshe Kelsang is not the head of this Center. Please, investigate your thoughts before you write false information about a buddhist center that you don't know anything about. Thank you!
dmr9321 2 years ago 2
Have compassion. We all make mistakes.
tagliavini 2 years ago 2
Please don't get FOOLED by Kadampa Buddhism. My heart aches when i see the degenerating of pure teachings of buddha into spirit worship.
The head of this center "Geshe kelsang gyatso call himself 2nd buddha and all the scriptures in Kadampa are distorted and the only books allowed in this center are strictly composed by him to serve his interest. Stop fooling people and give religious freedom and free information. Do ur research. U've other options of Great dharma Teacher
OM MANI PADME HUNG
dokpabhu 2 years ago 2
I've heard of this center before but I am confused by seeing H.H. the Dalai Lama's photo here..Geshe Kelsang doesn't hang HH photo..I didn't get what really it is!
tsamzen 2 years ago
Comment removed
DarkLordoftheMeme 2 years ago
These kadampas never talk about other schools of Buddhism or make any reference during talks about other Masters or teachers. They are way too serious as well....
JihadicChosen1 2 years ago 3
This Centre is not conected to the NKT, It says quite clearly at the top that this is a FPMT centre.Maybe you could be a bit more cautious before you start spreading mis-information. I don't know if you are aware that Kadam refers to the teachings of lord Buddha as presented by Ven' Atisha. Geshe Kelsang has never refered to himself as the second buddha, where have you heard him say that? Please stop spreading wrong and hurtfull speech.
drmnaga78 2 years ago 5
This ain't a Kadampa Center.
glowenthal 2 years ago
MY apolagies. I did not read corrrectly and take back the above comment. This is indeed a Kadampa center.
Much love
glowenthal 2 years ago
Comment removed
BuddhaForest 3 years ago
Comment removed
badredross 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this is a cult run!!!!
bassyjazzy 3 years ago
For those just starting to read these comments, a few points:
FTMP is NOT the New Kadampa Traditions (Geshe Kelsang Gyatso). NKT sprang out of the FTMP. FTMP is more closely allied with the Tibetan Buddhist Movement and Dalai Lama.
I was VERY involved in NKT for many years, and finally left because I found them to be sectarian and cultish. I do think the whole Shugden thing is silly, but the NKT makes a bigger stink about it than anyone! It is a big blemish on all of Buddhism. BOTH SIDES!
sddesigner 3 years ago
Namaste sddesigner, I see your point as I myself have witnessed politics in Western Dharma Centres and come across practitioners who think they know better than you. It's probably best to practice alone and my teacher often refers to Zen, Tibetan and even Taoism which the NKT do not.....all others Tibetan Schools and religions are irrelavent within the NKT.
BuddhaForest 3 years ago 7
You are probably right, True authentic Dharma can only be taught by enlightened ones. Self practice and silence can help you to attain realizations quickly.
You don't want some novice breathing down your neck. Geshe Kelsang didn't make the NKT secular, his followers did, which is bad news when he retires.
You did the right thing:)
JihadicIronFist 3 years ago 5
i dont think the nkt have tibetian teachers other than mr burns and the definatly dont have photos of the dalai lama ! lol!
drpumpkinstein 3 years ago 3
☆LoVe & LiGhT☆
NKT3505 3 years ago
Though I'm a follower of the Theravada Forest Sangha, I have been to 3 summer festivals of the NKT and found them to be very usefull in my practice. There is no harm in listening to other Gurus Wisdom, but I think Buddhism should avoid becoming Secular. Peace.
VenerableGuruBuddha 3 years ago 33
I'm pretty sure this is a centre within the Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition, not an NKT centre. The FPMT is a wonderful, authentic organization within the Gelug lineage. If anyone has a connection to great master Je Tsongkhapa, I suggest you check out the FPMT. Steer clear from the NKT at all costs.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
Why is the FPMT an authentic Gelug lineage and the NKT not? Dont the NKT follow their lineage gurus practices and teachings? I have friends in the FPMT and they get bennefit which is great. I practice in the NKT and i have received alot of bennefit and only had good experiences from my sangha. I think it's best for people to try stuff out for themselves and make their own minds up about what path to follow.
Thanks
drmnaga78 3 years ago 2
The FPMT is authentic because they do not practice Dholgyal.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
Thats not correct logic. So anyone who doesn't rely upon Dulzin as their Dharma Protector is following an authentic lineage, even if they have abandoned their lineage guru's saying they were not authentic?
drmnaga78 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yeah, pretty much.
If your lineage guru is having you do something that is not in accord with Dharma, it's your duty to stop that practice after determining it is incorrect. The influence of Dholgyal within the Gelug school has compromised parts of the school. The Ganden lineage is not corrupt, don't get me wrong. There are still, obviously, realizations. However, one must keep away from NKT and groups such as that.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
I agree, dont perform actions that are not in accord with Dharma. Can you tell me what parts of the school have been comprimised? Surely if the lineage gurus were wrong and cant tell the difference between a spirit and a Buddha then the whole lineage is corrupt?
Dorje Shugden is relied upon as a Buddha by many Gelugpa masters. What do you think about the DL relying upon the undisputed demon spirit Nechung?
drmnaga78 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It has compromised the blessings that come through those teachers who practice/practiced Shugden, especially Pabongkha. The blessings coming through the lineage are based on keeping samaya. Pabongkha's negative actions violated this and damaged the blessings of the lineage passing through him.
Luckily, your idea that Pabongkha, Trijang et al were the sole lineage holders of the Gelug tradition is false.
Guru Rinpoche bound Nechung. There is no problem relying on him for worldy concerns.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
I didn't say they were the sole lineage holders, but they are in the lineage of the majority of Gelugpas including the DL.
I dont believe Je Pabongkha performed negative actions, especialy when these stories come from people who perform such actions themselves. Many people try to discredit our lineage, destroy our holy statues,split our sangha,ostricize practitioners, so hypocitical. I have never met a Dorje Shugden practitioner who does this.
drmnaga78 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Actually, they are not the lineage masters of His Holiness for everything. HHDL has actually stated that His primary root guru was Tragda Rinpoche, not Trijang. Kirti Tsenshab Rinpoche, one of the greatest masters of our time, was separate from Pabongkha's lineage.
Pabongkha definitely performed negative actions. He was viciously sectarian, actively encouraging a General in the Kham area to forcibly close down Kagyu, Sakya and Nyingma monasteries. He was a sectarian bigot, clear and simple.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
Thank you for making your views clear. I have different views about such matters. I wish you all the best in your practice of holy dharma. May all beings come under the care of Guru Buddha and be swiftly released from illusion like suffering! Om mani padme hum
drmnaga78 3 years ago 7
What the hell are you taling about idiot?
GeshlersNKT 3 years ago 11
Buddhism is cool, but beware of 2012....
Chef2012 3 years ago
Kadampa and New Kadampa is definately catered for westerners.
TheZenChef 3 years ago 6
Actually there is a Kadampa Summer Festival happening right now in the North of England. It makes no difference if you are Zen, Tibetan or theravada....It's the same Noble Path.
VenerableGuruBuddha 3 years ago 6
It's the same path but different means of practicing on the path. That being said, there is different emphasis on different practices and different ways of accomplishing certain goals. The goals are not even the same, the goal of Theravada practice being the state of an Arhat and the goal of Mahayana/Vajrayana practice is the state of a full Buddha. Therefore, it's quite easy to see that while the paths may be similar they are still quite different. Nothing wrong with diversity, though. :)
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
I am a Theravada Buddhist from the Forest Sanga tradition and I have been to the New Kadampa Summer Festivals. I don't study their teachings but I see NO flaws in them. Though The New Kadampa are catered for the westerners, their teachings are as good as any other school. Peace.
VenerableGuruBuddha 3 years ago 7
No offense, Venerable, but this issue doesn't concern you as a Theravada practitioner. You likely know little to nothing of the intricacies of the issues regarding the NKT or the practice of Dholgyal.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
May Buddha Dharma flourish forever more!
drmnaga78 3 years ago 3
Yeah, This is a Tibetan Gelugpa center. This is not a New Kadampa Tradition Center.
BodhisattvaWade 3 years ago
NKT - On one hand speaking about compassion and on the other demonstrating against HH Dalai Lama? Funny.
Be careful with this rotten branch of the buddhisme tree!
If in the NKT center - ask questinons = why not pictures of Dalai Lama, Why the books from the other Buddhist traditions are not allowed?
Be warned!
jirina2 3 years ago
Have you even seen the video? They're not the NKT!
danomau 3 years ago
You are right Danomau, I was wrong. Too quicky written..
There is absolute nothing wrong with Kadampa tradition.
But all be warn of NEW Kadampa !!
New Kadampa tradition is poisoned and can affect lot of pain to his followers.
jirina2 3 years ago 5
Sorry, but this is not true. What is it poisoned by?
drmnaga78 3 years ago
The practice of Dholgyal, which is a mistaken practice and, in my opinion, causes a lot of the other issues you find in the NKT, from sexual abuse to the fact that it's a personality cult.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
I guess the majority of the Gelugpa tradition must be wrecked by Dulzin Dorje Shugden as the most prominent masters of the last century relied upon him in some way? Domo Geshe,Pabonkhapa,Trijang,lama yeshe,song rinpoche, geshe Rabten,and even the 13th DL. Most of the FPMT's lineage masters were Dorje Shugden Practitioners. Do you think the DL is right and all these masters are wrong, hard to believe. If you believe this, this has sad implications for the Gelugpa Lineage.
drmnaga78 3 years ago
The 13th Dalai Lama opposed the practice of Shugden, actually.
It's not a matter of His Holiness being right. Yes, He does happen to be correct but the facts of the issue stand on their own weight. They don't need anyone's authority to verify them besides that of any learned scholar. The Gaden Tri Rinpoche has spoken against the practice, as have His Holiness Sakya Trizin, Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, HH Karmapa and many other eminent masters.
Not that this should be "battle of the masters".
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
So you are saying the lineage gurus of the Gelugpas are wrong, and that masters of other lineages have the authority to criticize the Gelugpa practices(interesting). The 13th relied upon Domo Geshes famous Dorje Shugden oracle to make some big decisions, he always followed his advise. How come the DL always says the 5th was against Dorje Shugden even though he was one of the first to rely upon him, the evidence can still be seen(statue and prayer)?
drmnaga78 3 years ago
In regards to Dholgyal, yes. Especially given that it started as a very minor practice within the Sakya school.
The Gaden Tri Rinpoche isn't even outside of the Gelug lineage. He is the holder of Tsongkhapa's throne, therefore the head of the Gelug lineage.
The 13th Dalai Lama may have relied on the Shugden oracle but that is nothing major.
There is no credible proof of the claim regarding the 5th Dalai Lama.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
Hello Justin
Could you confirm what you mean by personality cult? What sexual abuse, thats quite a claim.
drmnaga78 3 years ago
It's a personality cult surrounding Kelsang Gyatso. All main books are written by him. The vast majority of practitioners have no other teachers. Empowerments from resident teachers only come through them but are actually from Kelsang. Both main programs within the NKT are made up of texts composed entirely by Kelsang.
The sexual abuse is the fact that both Deputy Spiritual Directors before the current one had to leave their posts due to knocking a few nuns up.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
Following Geshe Kelsang as our root guru, i dont think this makes the nkt a personality cult, Geshe-la hardly seems to have much of a personality. He rairly mentions himself in his books or teachings. His books are so beautifuly clear and well presented, perfect for serious study, he never caims to be special allways defering back to his root guru. Have any other teachers written such a complete collection of authentic Dharma books in english?
drmnaga78 3 years ago
No, of course not. Just like following HHDL does not make one part of a personality cult.
However, I have other gurus. I have other teachers, take other teachings, read other texts and commentaries, etc. As far as I can see there is a focus on Kelsang to the exclusion of other teachers and/or teachings. Then there's the fact that Kelsang's programs of training are the ONLY ones I know of that use books written by only Kelsang. I think that says a lot by itself.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
I think it shows Geshe-las great kindness and effort to make Lama Tsongkhapas teaching easily accessible to modern people. In the monasteies they have their own 'jig cha', it is like this in the NKT. Geshe-las books have consistent terminology that makes it easier to get to the meaning.Geshe-la is my guru, i study Dharma presented by him. I still enjoy reading books by other teachers and traditions, i just dont study them in the same way, this life is short why make more work for myself.
drmnaga78 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Dharma is dharma and should be studying.
I find the NKT focus on only Kelsang's books to be a fault.
It's all well and fine for you to study Kelsang's commentaries and the like. I do the same with my gurus but I don't do it to the extent of ignoring others, which is what I find occuring in the NKT.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
Very Sad what happened with the old Gen-la's. I dont think it counts as sexual abuse. It's not just in the NKT that people break their vows and dis-robe it's all over the place. A geshe in my home city said to one of our monks on this subject that back in his monastery(Drepung i think) every year many people would get ordained and many would dis-robe. Very sad, but people have delusions in samsara. Pray for them.
drmnaga78 3 years ago
I would say it does. Abuse of a position of power to take advantage of another sexually. I'd say that's sexual abuse. Then the fact that the NKT tried to cover it up for a while before finally admitting it. The whole "Samden stepped down from position of deputy director to go into retreat" was an inaccurate statement to say the least.
Monks are human, that's right. But add on to this the fact that Samden wasn't even a monk, it was covered up, etc. There seems to be a bigger issue here.
justintenzinjinpa 3 years ago
The reason there are no pictures of the DL, is because he is not our Guru. He has abandoned our lineage of gelugpa practice, saying that our lineage gurus and masters such as Pabhonkhapa,Trijang,Tomo Geshe, Lama Yeshe are wrong and were spirit worshipers. There are no pictures of Christ or Gordon Brown on our centre shrines either! I have books from other traditions, but i dont study them at my centre. Geshe Kelsangs books are perfect for indepth study.
PS. This centre looks lovely, thankyou.
drmnaga78 3 years ago
Good works
doezeedoats 3 years ago
Looks awesome. Wish I lived closer to Raleigh. You have a great center.
ca4us 3 years ago
So great! Very happy to see this. Thanks.
rybpo7 4 years ago
Wonderful - thank you for sharing. The Kadampa center looks great.
Heruka76 4 years ago