@KuroNekoPL I agree with you, he says fecht which does mean fence, alternatively- feder means feather, which could be a focus on its weight, even though it is stated that isn't really any lighter. Feather fencers is the name of the guild, maybe actually an insult by the opposing guild?
I'm not too proficient in German, but even I can tell, that he says Fechtershwert, not Federschwert. Why? I'm Polish, and in Polish language "Fechtować" means "to fence".
my training partner bought 4 of those exact same feders and we bend 2 of them within 1 minute of sparring. The grip bended right at the cross guard and the blade took and S shape. Just a comment out of experience, if anyone was thinking of buying those. (DON'T!)
And it is a simple training sword. There are a few videos where you can see those in action. Like this one if you search it on youtube "German Longsword freeplay"
We have trained with some feders of the exact same model and in my opinion the handles and crossguards are much, much too long. They're just inferior to the high end alternative.
Hmm, makes sense - since you don't need to worry about having to actually cut anything, you can build a practice sword to be as durable (and cheap) as possible.
Smashing steel rods together tends to result in less broken swords than smashing hardened steel blades against each other, methinks.
i don't agree with the point of pikemen. although, i'm not a history expert, i think it would bad to stop using a secondary weapon like the sword. i mean, come the day the pikes are of no use. or you enter a meele. in those cases the sword would be very useful.
@mechupanlamonda The katzbalger was a short sword, pike formations were often very cramped and a shorter sword was useful. That said, Swiss Reislaufer often used longswords within pike formations. So you are right but I think that was what he meant by obsolete.
As far as I know, Federschwerter were Practise-Weapons. To minimize Danger or killing someone while training, they took old Swords and ground away the Edges, as well as rounded of the Point. This kept the swords relatively safe to use in training. gradually they seemed to grind away the Edges more and more generously, so the Blades became flexible enough to even train Thrusts relatively safe. And at Some point they started building them from Scratch, rather than converting old Swords.
Federshwerter were used to train because the way they are designed makes them safe to use full contact but handles the same as its actual military version. It was not a hobby weapon, just because some that practiced with it didn't do it to go to war. But that was its main purpose.
Actually, im planning on getting a federschwert one of these days. I practice european fencing, and borrowing the societies weapons only gets you so far.
But that is pretty interesting. I did know of the origins of the word and its practical uses, but i did not know much about the history of the interguild duelling. Thank you for posting this.
@Caradepato2 but don't go for the Hanwei feders. they break at the tip, turning them into lethal stabbing weapons, which is not so great considering that this particular sword is NOT supposed to be a lethal stabbing weapon. Go for Albion, Arms and Armor, Ensifer or Pavel Moc if you want to play safe. So far no one has complained about them.
What exactly did you have in mind when you stated that you didn't entirely agree with his opinion on the longsword becoming obsolete, care to expound?
@lindybeige Is there a video that develops this point? (pls, excuse my ignorance... but it's a skill that may come in handy for potential street battles in Occupy Piddington on Plyne :) )
@bewarethegreyghost on the battlefield, that is. But as a duelling weapon and for self defence, it was used up until the 18th century, when the smallsword gradually took over as a nice accessory. I believe there is a French/Belgian fencingmaster by the name Thibault of early 18th century, who has fencing strategies for rapier against two handed sword in his curriculum, which means that they were still in use at the time.
Hello, i practice a longer time with "feder". This one looks like the one we used that was made by hanwei. Rly crappy made they tend to bend and brake a lot. And also if they flex too much you cant do binding techniques. We use now custom made thougher ones from a polish blacksmith. They are good for safe stabbing and for cuts cause the weight isnt on the end of the sword but near the handle so the cuts are lighter. And also they are rly good for tournaments.
Another point.. I don't know what the weapon laws were like in Germany, but in England we were banned from carrying swords in public by Edward III. This may have been an obvious way of showing your sword is not a weapon, so you wouldn't be arrested in the street.
@300warrior300 in germany, travellers and nobles were the only ones who were allowed to carry swords. but the common workaround was to carry a big knife instead, and that's were the "Bauernmesser" or "große messer" come from (like cold steels "grosse messer")
The practicing long sword was designed that way simply because it is supposedly to be used only in practice, and the strange shape is designed so that the weight distribution totally mimicks the real two-handed longsword. It does not have edges and is not tampered right. In history, wielders of longswords in battles also wear gauntlets. The German style with second set of handguard is different thing.
Actually the pronunciation is rather good - I mean, there are german accents (in germany!) that are way further away from "Hochdeutsch".
Regarding the base, I always wondered if it was maybe just to provide a proper ricasso (I mean large swords were grabbed by the ricasso [sometimes], and if the Federschwerter were used to train the usage of large swords, it would make sense to add a "real-life ricasso") - but this is just an idea . . . which I can't backup with facts!
The extremely wide ricasso of the blade also protects your thumb if you happen to have your thumb on the blade for certain techniques.
Also I think - might be a rumour I picked up during training - the first Federschwerter were normal longswords which were to jagged and nicked to be used as a real sword any longer. Those were ground down to make the Feder form. Though that would make the blade considerably lighter.
@whowantsabighug The whole talk was nearly ten minutes long. This is not much more than half the length and contains 97.2% of the meaning of the talk. I try to keep my videos short. The choppy editing may be annoying, but on the plus side, the video has better pace as a result.
I'm not sure about how accurate his story about the name is. Federschwert literally translates as Feathersword, which fits with the appearance of the thing, and Federfechter literally translates as Featherfencer.
@Roddyoneeye A tuck is an actual battlefield sword, essentially a longsword with a diamond or triangular cross-section, very stiff and designed for thrusting.
as far as i know "fechtfedern" had another point that made them good for training. they were very flexible, so it is possible to practice thrusts without worrying that you might hurt your partner.
(i did not encounter one yet, but my sword fencing teacher told me so)
@Glimmlampe1982 It was quite a bit stouter than a modern fencing foil, but yes, it had some flex in it. The flex would mean that it was non-lethal in a thrust but be prepared for bruises. The main length of it had to withstand clashing swings.
@lindybeige Also the end of most Fechtfedern is bend into a loop or similar shape to create a really, really blunt point.
I have always wondered, whether the name of these blades - Feder also meaning the quill or pen for writing - has anything to do with the origin of the saying "The Pen is mightier then the sword".
I guess it hasn't, that would make far to much sense.
I've just now gotten a federschwert just like that one
andros135 1 day ago
As i own and use one of these regularly i feel i must clarify some:
Federschwert : Spring sword. it's not named after a feather and is not an indication of the weight.
It's made to be "safe" to train thrusting with, the last 6 inches or so flex, so you don't kill your sparring partner.
The weight and balance of the sword is very close to a contemporary longsword, it's not a weakling "light" version.
wonderwhy46 6 days ago
@KuroNekoPL I agree with you, he says fecht which does mean fence, alternatively- feder means feather, which could be a focus on its weight, even though it is stated that isn't really any lighter. Feather fencers is the name of the guild, maybe actually an insult by the opposing guild?
pritzi101 3 weeks ago
I'm not too proficient in German, but even I can tell, that he says Fechtershwert, not Federschwert. Why? I'm Polish, and in Polish language "Fechtować" means "to fence".
KuroNekoPL 3 weeks ago
so the sword in his right hand is a katzbalger?
Bubbleboy0418 4 weeks ago
"Federschwerter" is german and means as much as "feather sword"
EphraimRodrigez 1 month ago
my training partner bought 4 of those exact same feders and we bend 2 of them within 1 minute of sparring. The grip bended right at the cross guard and the blade took and S shape. Just a comment out of experience, if anyone was thinking of buying those. (DON'T!)
HEMADeventer 1 month ago
he says "Fechterschwert", not Federschwert.
that wold be fencing sword ws feather sword.
Aroddo 1 month ago
@Aroddo
The sword is called Federschwert. ;)
And it is a simple training sword. There are a few videos where you can see those in action. Like this one if you search it on youtube "German Longsword freeplay"
JazzJaRa 1 month ago
I don't think the Federschwerter has a point.
tenthousandsuns 2 months ago 10
@tenthousandsuns Ba-dum-tish!
lindybeige 2 months ago 14
you sound like mike loades a little but
TheVeritasWithLarp 3 months ago in playlist More videos from lindybeige
We have trained with some feders of the exact same model and in my opinion the handles and crossguards are much, much too long. They're just inferior to the high end alternative.
blerofict 3 months ago
Hmm, makes sense - since you don't need to worry about having to actually cut anything, you can build a practice sword to be as durable (and cheap) as possible.
Smashing steel rods together tends to result in less broken swords than smashing hardened steel blades against each other, methinks.
Bankstercide 3 months ago
Now I want to go visit Surf Beach, Norway.
AriesWalker 4 months ago
@AriesWalker it's really Smurf Beach. The bastards misspelled it.
permhaaland 2 months ago
i don't agree with the point of pikemen. although, i'm not a history expert, i think it would bad to stop using a secondary weapon like the sword. i mean, come the day the pikes are of no use. or you enter a meele. in those cases the sword would be very useful.
mechupanlamonda 4 months ago
@mechupanlamonda The katzbalger was a short sword, pike formations were often very cramped and a shorter sword was useful. That said, Swiss Reislaufer often used longswords within pike formations. So you are right but I think that was what he meant by obsolete.
Railstarfish 4 months ago
Happy to see another point about weaponry!
psychedashell 4 months ago
As far as I know, Federschwerter were Practise-Weapons. To minimize Danger or killing someone while training, they took old Swords and ground away the Edges, as well as rounded of the Point. This kept the swords relatively safe to use in training. gradually they seemed to grind away the Edges more and more generously, so the Blades became flexible enough to even train Thrusts relatively safe. And at Some point they started building them from Scratch, rather than converting old Swords.
LutzDerLurch 4 months ago 2
Good video :).
tomcat2222 4 months ago
Very interesting, thanks for the upload.
MaseYevon 5 months ago
So many cuts, I guess that this took much longer than 6 minutes.
Saxappealed 5 months ago
Federshwerter were used to train because the way they are designed makes them safe to use full contact but handles the same as its actual military version. It was not a hobby weapon, just because some that practiced with it didn't do it to go to war. But that was its main purpose.
Halofreakanoid 5 months ago
IN SWEDEN :D :D :D
partytor11 5 months ago
It's like a European Bokken. /thread.
Lukos0036 5 months ago
@Lukos0036 A bokken for real men, yes.
lindybeige 5 months ago 20
@Lukos0036 the european bokken is called "waster".
smokerxluffy 3 weeks ago
Actually, im planning on getting a federschwert one of these days. I practice european fencing, and borrowing the societies weapons only gets you so far.
But that is pretty interesting. I did know of the origins of the word and its practical uses, but i did not know much about the history of the interguild duelling. Thank you for posting this.
Caradepato2 5 months ago
@Caradepato2 but don't go for the Hanwei feders. they break at the tip, turning them into lethal stabbing weapons, which is not so great considering that this particular sword is NOT supposed to be a lethal stabbing weapon. Go for Albion, Arms and Armor, Ensifer or Pavel Moc if you want to play safe. So far no one has complained about them.
permhaaland 3 months ago
@permhaaland Peter Regenyei makes some very nice (and customizable!) feders as well, though I prefer the Ensifer
mindhost 1 month ago in playlist Safety gear & Equipment
You should do something about Vikings, or Icelandic sagas :o if, of course, you are interested in them
cilibinarii 5 months ago
I would very much like to attend the Marx Brothers' fencing guild.
"A five year old child could fence better than this! Quick, someone get a five year old child."
nowhereman716 5 months ago
I like it tons better when you rant/explain things. That twitchy editing is bit distracting.
PsykoOps 5 months ago
What exactly did you have in mind when you stated that you didn't entirely agree with his opinion on the longsword becoming obsolete, care to expound?
bewarethegreyghost 5 months ago
@bewarethegreyghost I disagreed with his "the longest stick wins" statement.
lindybeige 5 months ago 7
@lindybeige
Obviously the size of the stick isn't as important as how you use it. ;)
thecutthatneverheals 4 months ago
@lindybeige Is there a video that develops this point? (pls, excuse my ignorance... but it's a skill that may come in handy for potential street battles in Occupy Piddington on Plyne :) )
OzClawhammer 3 months ago
@bewarethegreyghost on the battlefield, that is. But as a duelling weapon and for self defence, it was used up until the 18th century, when the smallsword gradually took over as a nice accessory. I believe there is a French/Belgian fencingmaster by the name Thibault of early 18th century, who has fencing strategies for rapier against two handed sword in his curriculum, which means that they were still in use at the time.
permhaaland 5 months ago
We will change the ordinariness! We will create an empty channel with the majority of subscribers! We break the stereotypes!
TheBestEmptyChannel 5 months ago
@TheBestEmptyChannel Er... what?
lindybeige 5 months ago 5
Yay, More updates!!! ^^
Hope youre enjoying Sweden!
ironflea 5 months ago
Hello, i practice a longer time with "feder". This one looks like the one we used that was made by hanwei. Rly crappy made they tend to bend and brake a lot. And also if they flex too much you cant do binding techniques. We use now custom made thougher ones from a polish blacksmith. They are good for safe stabbing and for cuts cause the weight isnt on the end of the sword but near the handle so the cuts are lighter. And also they are rly good for tournaments.
kolotiti 5 months ago
@kolotiti yep, that is a Hanwei feder and they are crappy. My next will be a Polish Ensifer or a Hungarian Regenyei.
permhaaland 5 months ago
I'm thinking many of the techniques for using the flail mainly consisted of not hitting your self with it.
Lurklen 5 months ago
I wish I could take up practicle broadsword ect, bit it seems the closest club to me is 200 miles away. far from Ideal.
ArmedBrit 5 months ago
Yay! : D
lordrotarec 5 months ago
These types of training swords are becoming increasingly popular within the HEMA community.
mindhost 5 months ago
Another point.. I don't know what the weapon laws were like in Germany, but in England we were banned from carrying swords in public by Edward III. This may have been an obvious way of showing your sword is not a weapon, so you wouldn't be arrested in the street.
300warrior300 5 months ago
@300warrior300 in germany, travellers and nobles were the only ones who were allowed to carry swords. but the common workaround was to carry a big knife instead, and that's were the "Bauernmesser" or "große messer" come from (like cold steels "grosse messer")
charivari100 5 months ago
I'm fairly sure I've seen something like that at the Macdonald Armoury here in Edinburgh...curiosity piqued, off to find out!
Eladriell 5 months ago
Wow coincidence?! My federschwert just came in the mail last week. Western Martial Arts needs much more publicity
Doebringer as well I think has plates on use of the flail.
BrazenMudrain 5 months ago
Do you do any fencing yourself? If so, I'd love to see a video of that sometime!
Biwso 5 months ago
nice video - there is a lot of good information in it.
888HamilkarBarkas888 5 months ago
Your choice of ending words are always most appropriate good sir.
DoctorStrangeFate 5 months ago
The practicing long sword was designed that way simply because it is supposedly to be used only in practice, and the strange shape is designed so that the weight distribution totally mimicks the real two-handed longsword. It does not have edges and is not tampered right. In history, wielders of longswords in battles also wear gauntlets. The German style with second set of handguard is different thing.
ChaohsiangChen 5 months ago
Actually the pronunciation is rather good - I mean, there are german accents (in germany!) that are way further away from "Hochdeutsch".
Regarding the base, I always wondered if it was maybe just to provide a proper ricasso (I mean large swords were grabbed by the ricasso [sometimes], and if the Federschwerter were used to train the usage of large swords, it would make sense to add a "real-life ricasso") - but this is just an idea . . . which I can't backup with facts!
Tzann 5 months ago
Part of me wants to say "THIS IS A FEDERSCHWERTER. IT SCHWERTS FEDERS."
Gilboron 5 months ago 67
The extremely wide ricasso of the blade also protects your thumb if you happen to have your thumb on the blade for certain techniques.
Also I think - might be a rumour I picked up during training - the first Federschwerter were normal longswords which were to jagged and nicked to be used as a real sword any longer. Those were ground down to make the Feder form. Though that would make the blade considerably lighter.
IcEye89 5 months ago
ahh, no one is commenting. then let me make one.
nice vids as always!
Doan84 5 months ago
Haven't seen any weapon-related point in a while. :)
KuroNekoPL 5 months ago
Are the jump cuts because of his English skills?
Kooletz71 5 months ago
What was the very very jerky editing in aid of?
whowantsabighug 5 months ago
@whowantsabighug The whole talk was nearly ten minutes long. This is not much more than half the length and contains 97.2% of the meaning of the talk. I try to keep my videos short. The choppy editing may be annoying, but on the plus side, the video has better pace as a result.
lindybeige 5 months ago 27
@lindybeige I actually liked the editing -- very cutting edge :)
JamesTCA 5 months ago
@lindybeige Can You upload the un edited version of this?
ssj7gokurpg 5 months ago
@ssj7gokurpg I could, but what would be the point? It would say the same thing, but be twice as long. My subscribers would be annoyed at me.
lindybeige 5 months ago
I'm not sure about how accurate his story about the name is. Federschwert literally translates as Feathersword, which fits with the appearance of the thing, and Federfechter literally translates as Featherfencer.
ladders1 5 months ago
"His Norwegian accent when pronouncing German words" - was that supposed to go anywhere?
His pronunciation is actually quite good, if I may say so :-)
Yrie27 5 months ago 6
@Yrie27 Good, then you'll take the fact that he is Norwegian into account and more fully appreciate how well he did.
lindybeige 5 months ago 9
@Yrie27 I agree - I'm German
BuFufilms 5 months ago
@BuFufilms Good for you! Join the club!
Yrie27 5 months ago
I thought it was called a "Tuck" ?
Roddyoneeye 5 months ago
@Roddyoneeye A tuck is an actual battlefield sword, essentially a longsword with a diamond or triangular cross-section, very stiff and designed for thrusting.
fakejohnwilkesbooth 3 months ago
@fakejohnwilkesbooth A tusk on the other hand is the same as a sinclair sabre. :)
permhaaland 1 month ago
as far as i know "fechtfedern" had another point that made them good for training. they were very flexible, so it is possible to practice thrusts without worrying that you might hurt your partner.
(i did not encounter one yet, but my sword fencing teacher told me so)
Glimmlampe1982 5 months ago
@Glimmlampe1982 It was quite a bit stouter than a modern fencing foil, but yes, it had some flex in it. The flex would mean that it was non-lethal in a thrust but be prepared for bruises. The main length of it had to withstand clashing swings.
lindybeige 5 months ago
@lindybeige Also the end of most Fechtfedern is bend into a loop or similar shape to create a really, really blunt point.
I have always wondered, whether the name of these blades - Feder also meaning the quill or pen for writing - has anything to do with the origin of the saying "The Pen is mightier then the sword".
I guess it hasn't, that would make far to much sense.
IcEye89 5 months ago
Good video. Do you think you'll go into fencing in one of your upcoming video(s) ?
MrBobbyHuber 5 months ago
Now thats interesting
Neroga 5 months ago
I don't think he got the Marx Brothers reference, or else he would have laughed.
Or perhaps he was sick and tired of the joke..?
revesvans 5 months ago
Lindy does not approve of this chap's historic theorems.
GreenEyedSerb 5 months ago