@schpoogie Orthodox Chritians use the original Bible. The protesnat and the sects of martin luther use the one martin luther messed up by adding and subtracting words.
I'm not getting into any arguments, I will just say this: How can we expect atheists to come home to the Lord Jesus, if we keep arguing with each other? Whether you are Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Jew or Gentile, let's make peace among the body of Christ. God Bless!!
When people of Old LAW were moving to a new Land Israel, the waters of Red Sea split. Today when Christians move to the New Lands of Heaven and people get baptised on Jordan, There is another miracle with Waters, the waters of Jordan river moves backward from the very time Jesus was baptized to today. When people were traveling through desert a column of Light were guiding the, From the time of Jesus to today, people are guided to true Church, eastern orthodox through miracle of HOLY LIGHT.
and how do you define this "life"?going to a curch and bowing down and kissing icons...well if that is part of it then you are an idolater and in fact you have NO life in you but the wrath of God.
care to show how i "fall short"?gratuituos assumptions means nothing so be specific and stop the mysticism!!!
I see just because you don't understand something its automatically wrong!
Kissing the Holy image of Christ is not following false gods but in a simplified form its subjecting the flesh to bow down to the image of Christ. So that we as disciples of Christ submit our flesh and spirit to be of one accord by putting or flesh/ego to death.
If your Church does not hold a continuous 2000 yr old Apostolic inheritance then you don't qualify.
idolatry is condemned in the Bible(2nd commandment) so ipso facto your "subjecting the flesh to bow to the image of Christ"(of course there are so many different images which supposedly represent Christ that is just hilarious for the normal observer)is crass idolatry.
qualify for what?idolater of the month?
RCC sings the same tune about 2000yrs "inheritance" so the question arises which of the 2 is the right one?(or perhaps NONE of the 2)
any of the Jews bowed to the Ark ,were they commanded to do so? NO
there are many DIFFERENT images for Jesus,which one is the correct one?
and Rome rebuked you(Orthodox church) back...so you still have the same problem as when it comes to authority and calling yourself "the church"
going in circles does NOT prove anything unless one ignores logic(do not go mystic on me..ohh,i almost forgot,the church you defend is mystical[neoplatonic to be more specific])
Obviously for you. What you don't like is out and you'll refuse historical facts to suit your own desires.
The Jews didn't bow down to it? Thats why they kept it in the Holies of Holies. Where only a worthy Priest could enter to Worship on behalf of the Jews!
So the answer is YES.
On what grounds did Rome rebuke the Orthodox back?
The Church i defend belongs to Christ but its very clear you have no understanding, not to mention a total lack of respect and belief in Christ.
i keep reffering you to the Bible,how about giving me the verse that says any Jew bowed down and worshipped the Ark
as for RCC vs Ortxodox all you have to do is read a bit of church history and u'll find out that in 1054 ad when the schism took place,both sides anathemaized each other...
fallacious arguments that prove nothing,i told you already u need to come up with arguments to back up your assertions otherwise u are dreaming
where on/under/above/around the Ark would Solomon make the "burnt offerings"(1Kings 3:15)? maybe u should be more careful about what u quote?very sloppy !
the 2 excomunicated each other...each one believing he was right! by what the papacy has become(not that i believe a iota of it) ever since 1054ad the roman catholic has a valid point that Rome was right...your toughts?
anything on the different faces of the so called Christ on ortxodox icons? i didn't think so either!
Standing before the Ark is not above,on or under but in front of !
Whats the valid point?
The images of Christ are very similar. Why have you seen Mohawks or nose rings?
What is very sloppy, is that you choose to follow a heaved up doctrine and defend it as true. This is the same spirit of Joseph Smith, all are false but what he believes. Free will, Free choice.
Also why you harping on? If you dont believe in Christ or a made up Christ go to there site.
i see u are slow to understand..."burnt offering" were done on the ALTAR NOT Ark...also there is NO mention of any bowing down to the Ark so please spare me the sloppy argument next time
of course i'm not talking "mohaks" but 2 different faces of the so called Christ,stop pretending and answer the question(i grew up as an orthodox so i KNOW what i'm talking about....do not even think to bring "nose rings" in the disscusion,ever again !!!)
Come on, is blindness that common with the heaved up doctrines? Oh sorry you so called bible people don't even have an altar. How qualified you are to speak! The Altar is placed before an item of Worship and in this case its the Ark of the Covenant!
Sloppiness here is from your ignorance!
Foolish questions are followed by the same! There not photo's, they are a likeness of the image God gave us!
u keep using "heaved up doctrines",care to be specific?i addressed the "free will" piece and proved that you are assuming falsely
in regards to the altar,i see u changed your tune...we were talking about bowing to the Ark as u gave 1Kings for an argument to wiseale out of the idolatry charge,again i showed u the silliness and sloppyness of your argument
going into "likeness" is another sloppy argument...2 different "likenesses" do not make right idolatry either so think again
just curious,the so called "altar" that u have in most ortxodox churches,where does it come into play when the Bible talks about Jesus Christ has made ONE sacrifice ONCE (Heb. 10:12;14) and has PERFECTED all that are sanctified?
what are the so called 'priests' in the ortxodox churches do in regards with those 'altars' ,today?
i know the pathetic excuse that RCC gives for its use of the "altar",what's your excuse?
1st- The Altar is where the Holy Bible is placed as well as the Blood and Body of Christ.
2nd- I know your heaved up doctrine believer for i see the disrespect you bring forth towards the Holy Church of Christ! Your like the Jews who claim to believe in God but tread him under foot. Why don't you come out of the closet and reveal which one of the thousands of heaved up doctrines ( "Interesting you don't see that as a pill of fallacies" ) you subscribe too?
the altar in the OT was used for sacrifices,i ask you again where in the Bible did your church find a commandment to set up an altar for the things you say the altar is used today?
disrespect for your church?i will say it again,u are giving the same circular argument,about the Ortxodox church being "the holy church",that the RCC gives...even the polytheistic Mormon church says that it is "the church"
making assumptions(about "heaved doctrines") means NOTHING without proofs!!!
Bible interprets itself so don't give the 3500 interpretations nonsense.
i keep telling you that your curch uses the same fallacy that other so called churches use(i.e RCC,Mormons etc)so unless u prove your assertion about Ortxodox 'church' being "the church",u are dreaming and repeating a mantra!
as for the "man"(that for some reason u think i follow) just don't bring the subject up...u were wrong so just admit it and stop making assertions u can NOT prove !!!
I see you avoid and are in denial.Denomination are interpretations of what they think.
OK we see in the Holy Scriptures that the Church is the Pillar of Truth.
Read St Ignatius early Church Father,disciple of Apostle John and successor of the bishop seat of Antioch where Apostle Peter sat. See if what you believe and what he believes is the same.
Yes Yes but you failed to address my question which i have asked a few times now, avoidance on your part?
i pointed out that(Matt. 5:23) was before 70ad(after 70ad there was no more Temple and NO more altar) so u either do not understand the contex or u choose not to,Rev. 8"3 is taking place in heaven so u still come short for proofs for the the called Ortxodox altar,just don't mention it again as i said your attempt is pathetic
u reapeating the same assertions without proving them is a mantra...get it?
u do not understand the context of Matt. 5:23!in 70ad the Temple was destroyed so the Altar ceased to be used,first of all bc THE LAMB(Jesus Christ) was sacrificed...no more need to sacrifice for sin...Christ payed for our sins(1Cort. 15:2-4).
stop making claims like "ortxodox church is heaven on earth" is quite pityful and laughable...i told u already u're making the pile of your fallacies even bigger.
While you stand outside the Ark pointing your finger mocking and laughing at us saying" Why do you have an Ark? You don't need one and why are you all in there?"
We truly cry for you because "YOU DON'T SEE" the storm coming.
@Adonomos "We truly cry for you because "YOU DON'T SEE" the storm coming" ohh,more mysticism...well i knew u were gone go mystic on me yet once again...LOL
start reading the Bible(start with the gospel of John and then Romans),i'll pray that God will open your understanding and get you out of Babylon(Ortxodoxy),the same way HE took me out of it(Ortxodoxy).
The devil tried to lead Christ away, succeeded with Judas and he's leading you through the wide gate as well. don't go down the same road your mentor J . Smith went. Its the path that leads to destruction.
as for "traditions"(2 Thess. 2:15) the past tense is used by Paul(i.e 'have been taught'),so what ever traditions u have in your church that do not align(or if those traditions of yours can be traced back ONLY after the death of the apostles) with what's in the Bible are TRASH! stop bowing to icons stop kissing the hand of priest(s),(all of that is sin)...
and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and u shall be saved !(Acts 16:30-31)
my understanding is based on the meaning of the words that we have in the Bible,so please spare me your J. Smith FALSE assertions,enough already...i told u that the guy wasn't even a christian!
what we have in the Epistles(Paul's) are enough so i don't get your red herring.
taking "altars" out of context is not how u will prove the ortxodox altar,get busy learning some Logic !!!
Your understanding is based on a very shallow interpretation to the point of distortion.Thats why i see you and J.Smith with the same spirit.
What we have in the Epistles(Paul's) are enough? Sorry not true in your case!
God has not changed nor has his Faith. It's just these new age christians that came along 2 minutes ago claiming they have the infallible truth and chop up the Holy Scriptures to suit there itchy ears.
Only through Spirit and Truth can i be blessed! Not by heresy!
u are talking about 'heresy' but for some strange reason u still fail to understand that what i pointed out about the Temple being destroyed in 70ad is just historical fact...the Altar that was used in the Jerusalem Temple WAS DESTROYED...these are HISTORICAL FACTS!!!
look up the word heresy and then if u will understand the meaning of it maybe u'll admit your failure...LOL
which one of us "chopped up" the Scripture?ohh,i remember it was u
I read very clearly what you are saying and what im saying back is Heretical people cannot pass on blessings. Like i said your 2minute interpretation is of satan which only causes division and leads people astray to there destruction.
I brush my feet of you and will never take part of your HERESIES. So if you don't want to be with the Church Christ founded then go and hang out with the rest of the heretics and keep your pollution away from me!
Leave your logic in the toilet. We Orthodox live by the Holy Spirit not foolish logic that you confess!
As far as heresy goes your 2 minute heaved up doctrine is full blown heresy - A Corruption of doctrine and it has led many astray and your one of them.
Regarding the Altar your just in denial! Proven to you that they have one in heaven, to a man led by the Holy Spirit would know we must have one here as well. As we confess in the Lords Prayer! Which you obviously don't!
i know that you(the ortxodox) are mystics and misologists,thank u for admiting it.
again with "heaved up doctrines" ?i gave u historical facts about the Temple and Altar.
here is Heb. 10:12-14: "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever , sat down on the right hand of God From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool . For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified"
tell me your understanding of it and its functions,do not go on mixing false assertions about "heaved doctrines" or telling me u "live by Holy Spirit"
Logic is a person(Jesus Christ)
read John 1:1 and when u see "WORD", remember that a valid english translation of the Greek "logos" is LOGIC/WISDOM !
Deflate your ego your logic doesn't compare to Christ Logos Sophia.
So i don't have a problem with Biblical versus. Just the many new age interpretations that are out there!
Like yours for example.
You deny the Church (The Body of Christ.)
You deny the Holy Sacraments (The Mysteries of Christ)
So your mob who struggle to understand the Holy. It's understandable with your two minute heritage. That has no place with the 2ooo yr old Church of Christ- The Orthodox Church!
i gave u one of the menings of the Greek word "logos",u keep confussing what words mean with a so called "interpretation" of mine,strange how u keep hiting a dead horse over and over again
i deny the Ortxodox church and RCC,Mormon church,all of which claim to be "the church",so please stop using this mantra about u(ortxodoxy) being the church,it's still a circular argument that u keep making!!!
So the Holy Bible is not the Word of God and it should not be venerated according to you?
It has been shown to you, that the Orthodox Church is Truly living according to the Holy Scriptures, more so than your empty claims can produce. So go along to your imaginary fellowship, that you fail to say which it is and keep rolling in your delusions!
GOD BLESS THE ORTHODOX CHURCH THAT ALWAYS WAS, IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE SAME!
u ,sir HAVE NOT showed a shred of evidence for ortxodoxy...mantras and unproved assertions are NOT "living according to H Scriptures".
for each verse i gave u from the Bible u come up with mystical and wishful phrases!!!
"And I heard another voice from heaven , saying , Come out of her , my people that ye be not partakers of her sins , and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4)
"So tell me what do they sacrifice on the Altar in Heaven?"
first,apocalyptic literature is highly symbolic !!!
the only things mentioned in Rev. as being offered are "incese and prayers"(Rev. 8:3) now how can ortxodox "priests" mix the 2 together?of course we both know that your so called "priests" are doing something diff. on the altar of your church(incense,bread, wine etc)
Well you can see that the Altar is a place of Worship we are told the angel incensing the Holy Altar does your so call church do this? Where the Holy Bible is venerated.
Also who compiled and canonised the Holy Bible?
Also in remembrance of Christ we partake of the Blessed Blood and Body of Christ. So the Ultimate sacrifice is done upon the Holy Altar. All the things that your new age church don't do, we have done from the beginning! So how is your new age mob Bible based?
i see u still can not explain the ortxodox altar and pick up other topics,the verses about the altar in Revelation says NOTHING of "veneration of the Holy Bible" so u keep adding to the mysticism
the perfect sacrifice was performed by Jesus Christ on the cross almost 2000 yrs ago,what are this "ultimate sacrifice done upon the holy altar" is all about?is this what your so called priest are doing during the liturgy?
How heretical do you get? Does not the Holy Scripture command us to partake of his blood and Body?
What was preformed on the Altar in the Old Testament was a shadow what was to be. The gift Christ gave us to do in remembrance of him.
Your blind to your own false interpretations and you deny the Blood and Body of Christ as well as his Church! That qualifies you as an antichrist! By denying all those things you deny Christ.
@Adonomos "Does not the Holy Scripture command us to partake of his blood and Body?"
we are to remember Him until He comes(1Cort. 11:25-26),every time we break bread and wine,but unfortunatelly for u and ortxodoxy there are NO priests or altars mentioned in the verses !so yet again u came up short for your ortxodox altar.
@martalog121 "there are NO priests or altars mentioned" Of course there are priests mentioned. Christ was speaking to those who took with Him for the supper, that is to His disciples and Apostles and the Bishops who consecrate the bread and the wine are the successors of the Apostles.
"He was not handing literal blood and flesh"
He said that the bread and the wine was His flesh and His blood though.
the verses says NOTHING about "bishops who consacreated the bread" ! this stuff about bishops u just added to the verses so please try to abstain from doing that !!!
bread and wine are SYMBOLS for His blood and flesh.unless u believe HE had a piece of meat torn out of His body and some freshly squezeed blood from His arteries u should not continue with the misrepresentation of what the verse says !
Like i told you from the beginning Orthodoxy is to deep for you. Your still a baby in the understanding of the Faith, continue on with your milk because the meat is to heavy for you to digest. I hope in your maturity you come to the fullness of understanding but this will only happen by the Blessing of God.
At the moment you believe to what you can digest. In fairness i didn't add anything,
It always was and as St Paul says imitate me for i imitate Christ.
mystery in the Bible means something hidden that now was revealed(Eph. 1:9;6:19;1Tim. 3:16),not the mystical "beyond human comprehension" that your neoplatonic church teaches !!!
@Adonomos "I am the bread of life : he that cometh to me shall never hunger ; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst"John 6:35...if u taking the 'eucharist' at your local ortxodox church will never be hungry and thirsty then ask me about symbol again otherwise just stop asking !
finally...it takes u forever to admit that at the last supper Jesus was talking metaphorically...the actual bread and wine were SYMBOLS for His flesh and blood
i have a few elders that are on the same "level" with me,as the Bible prescribes,no hierarchical system!
will u say the same mantras that u've been posting here?pious nonsense is all u have
ok,what were the bread and wine at the last supper?.were they literal flesh and blood?if they were not then just stop mentioning this topic
as for the elders in 1Tim 5:17 first the PLURAL was used so that alone takes the wind out of RCC and Ortxodoxy both of wich have a pyramidal system,second those elders were to rule in teaching the doctrines,again that doesn't apply to ortxodoxy bc as u have shown so far those bishops of yours have done nothing to teach u the biblical doctrines
That's according to you where in your case your non-existent bishop taught you a non- existent doctrine!
Also why do i need a Bishop to teach me doctrine, if i have the Bible? Clearly a contradiction on your part!
Christ say's THIS IS MY FLESH, then it is his Flesh. You say it is symbolic of his flesh or what ever you think it is. I will continue to believe in Christ over anyone else! We Orthodox live by Faith!
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it wrong!
at one point u kept claiming that i follow"heaved up doctrines" then u claimed that i've been taught "non-existant doctrines" this buddy is u contradicting yourself !
are u using this faulty logic in your daily life?
i answer all your questions so please at least show a bit of dignity
as for u being "on the right track"...well another pathetic atempt to mask your ineptness
i see u jump yet again to a diff. topic(Salvation on a diff. channel) and once again u show your ineptness when it comes to what the Bible teaches...
can u answer why is there a Hell if Christ saved all the people(that was one of the claims of that lady in the vid post)?are u a universalit as was the heretic Origen?
i have a feeling(LOL) that u'll go mystic on me...again !!!
Now your refuting the plan of God. God is calling all to freely love him!
Faith is of the Heart, Mind, Body and Soul!
Gifts are given to those who seek him!
Those who end up in hell will be those who reject the will of God and live according to there own will. Which is evil before God and it will be the weight of there sins that will sink them down to the pit of hell.
those who end up in Hell will be there for their sins
Salvation is of the Lord(Johna 2:9) so God gives Salvation to whomever HE wants (i.e His sheep)
where did u get this false idea that "Faith is of the Body"? (ohh and so u'll know there is no dychotomy heart mind in the Bible,they are synonims and they are usually in the same phrase for EMPHASIS )
@Adonomos "Gifts are given to those who seek him!"
so know here is what the Bible says :
' There is NONE that understandeth , there is NONE that seeketh after God'( Rom. 3:11)
u are in total contradiction with the Scriptures
"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing : and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven , and among the inhabitants of the earth : and NONE can stay his hand,or say unto him, What doest thou?"(Dan. 4:35)
Mat. 6:33 SEEK ye first the Kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat. 7:7-11 SEEK and ye shall find.
Heb. 11:6 For without faith it is impossible to please Him. For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently SEEK Him.
Equal elder? God have mercy on your flock!
Orthodoxy is the path to Salvation, heresies will lead you to destruction.
u seem to forget that OT was given to the JEWS ONLY!
and the NT is written to the professing christians! so once again in your desperate universalism try to put humanity as a total,nice try but u are WRONG !
i see u have no reply to the Bible verses i gave uu but somehow u have the audacity to call me a heretic,well as i said when it come to the Bible u are ignorant and inept to even try to defend your dremed up ortxodox doctrines.
so unless u have this basic understanding on how God deals with His people ONLY(in both OT and NT) u will not understand what u read in the Bible
Thanks for your advice but the day i left born-againism and returned back to Orthodoxy, i found through the Holy Church that i could live a thousand life time's and still keep learning the hidden mysteries of the Greatest and Holiest Book in all the universe. So the more you SEEK God the more God reveals.
Look how God Blessed the Orthodox Church to put the Holiest Book together, that everyone knows is
THE HOLY WORD OF GOD!
Reason i rejoice and say GOD BLESS THE ORTHODOX CHURCH +++
i see u keep to the old circular argument that RCC claims as well(the church put the Bible together)
it is a fallacy and it will be forever no matter how many times people(churches) repeat it,at least try to understand and stop making the fallacious argument
what are this "hidden mysteries" that u've learned so far?the way u defend ortxodoxy is just mysticism pure and simple,u have showed it so many times that it should ring a bell that something is not right in the way u defend it
well for one thing,any coucil that u will argue that canonised NT u would have to agree that those so called 'bishops' did not show up and choose from a range of books that they never saw until that day.What any of the council did so to affirm what the churches already used and accepted.This idea that without council X or Y we would not have a NT is bogus.
Yes of coarse they choose from books that already existed but there were others as well circulating that weren't suppose to be considered in the same light, yet still profitable for teaching but not inspired doctrine. So who put the Holy Bible together?
Stop with your run around answers on it isn't so&so or its bogus. Just answer the question and just in case you forgot it, ill ask it again.
the Bible formed the church not the other way around,in Acts we have a chronological sequence of events about how the church started...in the church epistles(1 &2 Timothy,Titus etc) we are told how the church should be and operate.
before any council got together the books of the NT were already recognized and used by "the church",the early church fathers quoted left right and centre from NT without having any decision of a council in the matter of canon
Yes the Four Gospels were in circulation as well as others, for they were writings of the Apostles to confirm the teachings that had been taught but who took out the books that were also being taught by the early Church?
What happened to these book and there's more but ill give these as an example to make my point!
The book of Jubilees, Epistle of Barnabas*, Shepherd of Hermas*, Paul's Epistle to the Laodiceans, 1 Clement *, 2 Clement, Preaching of Peter, Apocalypse of Peter,
those books that did not "make it" were not authoritative in the churches and if u were to read some of these books( that did not "make it") u'll soon realize why...historical inaccuracies,wrong doctrines or contradictory with the books in NT etc.
So Christ came down with a book in hand according to you? Or did the Apostles walk around with the Bible in hand? Or did they both spread the Gospel by Oral Tradidtion, latter to be written down as a reminder and conformation of what was taught?
So according to you the written proceeded the oral? This is a false statement. No matter how much you want to twist it the Oral teachings came first and was the foundation of the Church and letters came latter.
NO,every time Jesus taught someting He took the approch "IT IS WRITTEN"(reffering His audience to the WRITEN Old Testament) i chalange u to find me ONE instance were He said :"tradition says.. or according to tradition.." the apostles took the same route... so u have to understand that OT(written that is) was before any church in Rome or Constantinople called itself "the church" any doctrine that Christ or the apostles taught was based on WRITTEN OT, NOT "oral tradition" !!!
can u prove that those "oral traditions", that u mentioned, were something other than what we have in writtting(NT)? i already know your answer so don't bother...LOL
Without wasting my time why dont you listen to this video, it basically covers Oral Tradition.
If you want me to send you pages, i will but i hate to prove you wrong agaaain!
How could a written text be authoritative outside of a connection to Tradition, if Tradition itself determined which books made up the authoritative text?
so no answer on the Bible verses" scripture says,it is written...etc" ?i didn't think for a moment that u have a come back for it....as u have showed so far u just make claims that afterward u forget to prove
what kind of "oral tradition" put together the OT?can u show that your "oral traditions" are something other than what the apostles wrote?
as i said before u need to learn a bit of Logic and maybe u'll realize the ineptness of your arguments !!!
It was all because you took offense to my comment in "seeking" and you pulled out Rom 3:11 to make your point and i showed you numerous passages that proved my point!
Paul in 1st and 2nd chp. of Rom. show that both jew and gentile(humanity) are guilty before God( and concludes that in Rom. chp 3 as i quoted to u)
again so u understand,just bc we have commandments in OT u can not ASSUME that the jews can fulfill them!
in NT we have the commandment "be perfect...be holy"(Mtth. 5:48) the question then is: are u perfect? NONE of us are so u run into a bit of a problem with your understanding of commandments in the Bible
I'm perfected in Christ, through Grace. My struggle is putting my old self to death and living by the Word Of God. For we are to imitate Christ in all things. As Christ says, i call many but only choose a few. Because only a few will truly follow him and his ways.
u did not answer the question(based on the commandment in Matth. 5:48) ARE U PERFECT?..if u are not then u just proved my point about any of us(humanity) being able to obey God's commandments (onlyGOD can fully obey His own commandmends...i.e Jesus Christ was the ONLY man that fulfilled what God demanded)the Law was obeyed for about 33 yrs in the whole history of this planet by the Son of God ONLY!!!
Moses wrote the first 5 books in OT...i shoud've known that ! now that u have my answer HOW is this related to my "ego surpases my logic"...enlighten me and be specific and define your terms well...please !!!
as for my church name, is irrelevant to our discussion
just bc we have commandments in the Bible it is a fallacy to say that u have the ability to do them...this was my point in Rom. 3:11 ,
You've been harping on about Oral Tradition and telling me to use logic but as now you can see from Father Abraham to Moses its been passed on by Oral Tradition! So if you want me to use logic use your own first and have a look at the bigger picture before you make remarks about logic!
Where did ability to do them come from? I was making a point it's what we must do and you were saying i was contradicting Scripture. Are you twisting again?
1 Timothy 2:3-7 "...God our Saviour, who wants "ALL MEN" TO BE SAVED and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a RANSOM FOR "ALL MEN" - the testimony given in its proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle - I am telling the truth, I am not lying - and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles."
[23] Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he MUST deny himself and take up his cross daily and FOLLOW me. [24] For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. [25] What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?
So YES SALVATION IS BY ME FOLLOWING!
Told you and ill ask you again tell me the so called church you attend and ill PROVE you r egotistical EGO!
Salvation is a GIFT(Eph. 2:8-9) and is accomplished by GOD NOT you!!!...u can not demanded it, u can no earn it, u can not maintaine it !!! no wonder your church is so far off from christianity.
no profs for your FALSE assertion about my :"ego and logic"....strange how u keep repeating the mantra tough...LOL
This is why heaved up doctrines like the one you FOLLOW will LEAD you astray!
Nobody said Salvation is not a gift but if you dont follow your not saved! So stop twisting comments to suit your egotistical debate!
NO so called church?
Read your scriptures if one continues to lie for example, they will not inherit the Kingdom. So you better repent ( TURN AWAY ) from your lying doctrine! You keep sinning and you will die!
I Worship God and every Word that comes out of his mouth!
again with "heaved up doctrines"?aren't u tired of parroting the same nonsense over and over?but than again u have NOTHING else to say when it comes to the Bible...LOL
"Nobody said Salvation is not a gift but if you dont follow your not saved"
u keep contradicting yourself...there are NO "ifs" or "buts" bc God is responsible for ones Salvation
repent for what?be specific and STOP making FALSE assertions if u can't prove them...
I cant believe how you have to be led step by step!
Acts 26:20- First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
What do i have to DO?
I told you a hundred time's your heresy that you support and follow will lead you to death. I'm parroting as you put it because you wont tell me what so called church you fellowship in!
what are the "heaved doctrines" that u keep PARROTING? Acts 26:20 say NOTHING about heaved up doctrines" so please stop the mysticism and tell me what do u mean by "heaved up doctrines" NAMED THEM !!!
STOP jumping from topic to topic and answer one at the time...the OT was well defined and finished before any church in rome or constantinopole started to call itself "the church"...any toughts on that? retract your FALSE assertion that ortxodoxy gave us the Bible
So are you to tell me that all there is in your Bible, is the OT ???
Tell me who was the Church that rebuked the heresies of the Arians, Monothistes and the infallible pope? Asked u, name of your so called church, please!!!
It is you who's jumping. I've answered every question and to complete my question i might have to ask one from you. So STOP jumping around pretending you know something and just answer the question!!!!!
@Adonomos "So are you to tell me that all there is in your Bible, is the OT ?"
i did not say that...i told u that your assertion about Ortxodoxy giving us the Bible is FALSE so just admit it and do NOT make the FALSE assertion ever again!!!
in Acts 26:20 there us NO mention of u "keeping yourself saved"(Paul tells Agripa about his "mission" to the gentiles) ...again u are very confussed about santification which is a fruit of justification.
my dear,faith(the mental activity of believing something) repentance(a simple change of mind) are GIFTS from GOD,if u think that u conjured up your 'faith' and 'repentance' u are deciving yourself,NONE of us can believe in Jesus Christ by our own abilities/powers
your mystical church has misled u very very badly...u should start reading the Bible and learn a bit of Logic too...
Your in denial! Why raise the point about the OT? There are facts who Canonised the NT and like i said, it was the same Church that rebuked the heresies at that time as well. didn't get your answer on that?
There are facts who Canonised the NT and like i said, it was the same Church that rebuked the heresies at that time as well. Which Church is that?
THE Holy Orthodox church.
Why dont you be honest and confess that you follow a heaved up FALSE doctrine! That's why you are chicken to tell me the name of your so called church!
THE HOLY ORTHODOX CHURCH was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ!
To hate the ORTHODOX Church, is the same as saying i hate Christ!
i see u are equivocating and made some adjustments to your initial claim(which was about the Bible NOT NT only) too chicken to admit u were wrong? well i did not expect much from u...as i said u need to get some lessons in Logic and start reading the Bible...
stop it already with the mantras!
stop it with the FALSE assertions(i never said that i hated your church) unless u tell me what u mean by "heaved up doctrines" just abstain from postin the words,u are pathetic and innept !!!
1st point- I'm trying to show you by the Church who fought the heresies is also the same Church that Canonised the Holy Bible.
Your just like a Muslim, just want to see it as you see it. Same spirit i suppose but you wouldn't understand what i mean by that!
Again you answered no questions?
Why dont you be honest and confess that you follow a heaved up FALSE doctrine! That's why you are chicken to tell me the "NAME" of your so called church!
The BIBLE is my authority as you say! I tell you, your interpretation is your authority led by your ego. No different to a Muslim who quotes from the Bible but his understanding is WAY OFF BASE!
400 yrs is 1600 yrs short in qualifying as the Church of Christ. So your doctrine belongs in the same hole as mormons, islam and all the other latter day heaved up interpretations!
taking Matth. 7:6 out of context is some how your come back...pathetic(u should've started with verse 5...that's a perfect match for u..LOL)
i see u moved from doctrines to interpretations...what's another fallacy right?u made so many of them,who's counting right?(care to prove how my "ntrepretation is led by my ego"?)
i told u already that the mantra about 2000 that u and RCC "SING" all the time is just a circular argument...
The2000yr old argument is a fact that you cant handle!
I didn't move you just cant fathom what is meant from interpretations that started a new 400 yr old doctrine. Fact!
Matt 7:5 I agree with you about my plank. At least i have an eye to remove it from but not much help to blind people like U.
Regarding Interpretations and your denial of doctrinal fellowship, which then broadens the protestant doctrine because you people a very different in beliefs but all seem to be wrong!
the "2000 yrs" is a fact? u need to wake up from your dream,that argument is used by RCC as well so which is it?ortodoxy or RCC
i still don't get the way u "rationalize" the fact that your claims for ortxodoxy are matched by RCC almost exactly but for some reason u continue to be blind to the fact that ortxodoxy's and RCC's claims CAN NOT both be right...just tell me how do u see your church being "the church" when u have a diff. orgazization(RCC) claiming almost the same nonsense?
"all seem to be wrong"...according to your mythological view of the Bible
bc of the alegorical and mystical aproch(that your church&RCC is using still)"christianity"had a long period called the Dark Ages.Europe was in darkness for centuries and by what RCC and Ortxodoxy have been doing ,right now we are headed back to those damnable times.
the western civilazation is a byproduct of preaching of the Gospel,all the liberties that we still enjoy are bc of the Reformation !!!
1-It may all seem wrong to you but that doesn't mean its wrong! Just because you dont know. This is the ego that surfaces when people dont know or refuse when faced with facts.
Martin Luther is the father of protestantism and his father is the Rcc. Like i said before Rcc and the Orthodox Church was once the one and the same Church but just like there protestant children they heaved up doctrines for themselves that were never taught and Rome then broke away to continue its heresies.
how do u know my ego?if mantras are "facts" than i'm the pope....of RCC that is,u still make ambiguous assumptions and keep forgetting that without profs your assumptions mean NOTHING.
u still fail to show how your claims for ortxodoxy are true and RCC's claims are wrong/false...again,pay attention and stop making the same fallacious assumptions!!!
2-Rome officially split in the year 1054 from the Orthodox but there was tensions way before that, because of the added doctrine that was never taught. So in fairness Martin Luther wasn't the one to rebuke Rome. The Orthodox did so centuries before Luther was conceived. So why are you people saying you started the reformation? You all continued Rome's theme and heaved up mini popes to promote your cause so your first pope is Martin Luther and his pope was the Rcc, father like son!
What bible to orthadox christians use?
schpoogie 4 months ago
@schpoogie Orthodox Chritians use the original Bible. The protesnat and the sects of martin luther use the one martin luther messed up by adding and subtracting words.
Awash777 1 week ago
@Awash777 What is this bible called? Where can i get a copy of the Orthodox Bible?
schpoogie 1 week ago
I'm not getting into any arguments, I will just say this: How can we expect atheists to come home to the Lord Jesus, if we keep arguing with each other? Whether you are Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Jew or Gentile, let's make peace among the body of Christ. God Bless!!
bodom71 4 months ago
06:30
2 Thessalonians 1:13 Holde fast the fourme of sound words, which thou hast heard of mee, in faith and loue, which is in Christ Iesus.
VyckRo 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
When people of Old LAW were moving to a new Land Israel, the waters of Red Sea split. Today when Christians move to the New Lands of Heaven and people get baptised on Jordan, There is another miracle with Waters, the waters of Jordan river moves backward from the very time Jesus was baptized to today. When people were traveling through desert a column of Light were guiding the, From the time of Jesus to today, people are guided to true Church, eastern orthodox through miracle of HOLY LIGHT.
IoanRomania09 1 year ago
can you prove that the 'oral' is other and totally different than what was written in the epistles?
christianity is NOT a "a life" (min.3:13), it is a system of TRUTH
who's the surfer 'dude' (long wavy hair) in the pics?
as for the so called 'apostolic succession' well, RCC sings the same tune with their 'succession' so which one is the true one? ini mini mine moe?
Paul was taught by Jesus not by others!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Deny the Orthodox Church is to deny Christ.
you fall short, Christianity is life! A Life in Christ.
Systems are of the flesh and has NO Spiritual substance.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
and how do you define this "life"?going to a curch and bowing down and kissing icons...well if that is part of it then you are an idolater and in fact you have NO life in you but the wrath of God.
care to show how i "fall short"?gratuituos assumptions means nothing so be specific and stop the mysticism!!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
I see just because you don't understand something its automatically wrong!
Kissing the Holy image of Christ is not following false gods but in a simplified form its subjecting the flesh to bow down to the image of Christ. So that we as disciples of Christ submit our flesh and spirit to be of one accord by putting or flesh/ego to death.
If your Church does not hold a continuous 2000 yr old Apostolic inheritance then you don't qualify.
Because all others are heaved up.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
idolatry is condemned in the Bible(2nd commandment) so ipso facto your "subjecting the flesh to bow to the image of Christ"(of course there are so many different images which supposedly represent Christ that is just hilarious for the normal observer)is crass idolatry.
qualify for what?idolater of the month?
RCC sings the same tune about 2000yrs "inheritance" so the question arises which of the 2 is the right one?(or perhaps NONE of the 2)
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
So i suppose the Ark of the Covenant is idolatry too?
Under your understanding God is an idolater as well. For he gave us his image in Our Lord Jesus Christ!
Holy images is not false god idolatry. Your trying to justify a heaved up belief, and by doing so are qualifying for the blasphemer of the month.
If none now you call Christ a liar!
Deny the Orthodox Church you deny Christ!
The Orthodox were the ones who rebuked Rome for her innovations, centuries before Martin Luther!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
any of the Jews bowed to the Ark ,were they commanded to do so? NO
there are many DIFFERENT images for Jesus,which one is the correct one?
and Rome rebuked you(Orthodox church) back...so you still have the same problem as when it comes to authority and calling yourself "the church"
going in circles does NOT prove anything unless one ignores logic(do not go mystic on me..ohh,i almost forgot,the church you defend is mystical[neoplatonic to be more specific])
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Obviously for you. What you don't like is out and you'll refuse historical facts to suit your own desires.
The Jews didn't bow down to it? Thats why they kept it in the Holies of Holies. Where only a worthy Priest could enter to Worship on behalf of the Jews!
So the answer is YES.
On what grounds did Rome rebuke the Orthodox back?
The Church i defend belongs to Christ but its very clear you have no understanding, not to mention a total lack of respect and belief in Christ.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i keep reffering you to the Bible,how about giving me the verse that says any Jew bowed down and worshipped the Ark
as for RCC vs Ortxodox all you have to do is read a bit of church history and u'll find out that in 1054 ad when the schism took place,both sides anathemaized each other...
fallacious arguments that prove nothing,i told you already u need to come up with arguments to back up your assertions otherwise u are dreaming
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Solomon worshiped before the Ark after his dream in which God promised him wisdom (1 Kings 3:15).
Open your eye's and see the full message the Holy Bible gives.
Again on what grounds did Rome excommunicate? your not backing up your statements very well!
"Fallacious arguments that prove nothing,i told you already u need to come up with arguments to back up your assertions otherwise u are dreaming"
Take your own advice!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
where on/under/above/around the Ark would Solomon make the "burnt offerings"(1Kings 3:15)? maybe u should be more careful about what u quote?very sloppy !
the 2 excomunicated each other...each one believing he was right! by what the papacy has become(not that i believe a iota of it) ever since 1054ad the roman catholic has a valid point that Rome was right...your toughts?
anything on the different faces of the so called Christ on ortxodox icons? i didn't think so either!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Standing before the Ark is not above,on or under but in front of !
Whats the valid point?
The images of Christ are very similar. Why have you seen Mohawks or nose rings?
What is very sloppy, is that you choose to follow a heaved up doctrine and defend it as true. This is the same spirit of Joseph Smith, all are false but what he believes. Free will, Free choice.
Also why you harping on? If you dont believe in Christ or a made up Christ go to there site.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i see u are slow to understand..."burnt offering" were done on the ALTAR NOT Ark...also there is NO mention of any bowing down to the Ark so please spare me the sloppy argument next time
of course i'm not talking "mohaks" but 2 different faces of the so called Christ,stop pretending and answer the question(i grew up as an orthodox so i KNOW what i'm talking about....do not even think to bring "nose rings" in the disscusion,ever again !!!)
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Come on, is blindness that common with the heaved up doctrines? Oh sorry you so called bible people don't even have an altar. How qualified you are to speak! The Altar is placed before an item of Worship and in this case its the Ark of the Covenant!
Sloppiness here is from your ignorance!
Foolish questions are followed by the same! There not photo's, they are a likeness of the image God gave us!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u keep using "heaved up doctrines",care to be specific?i addressed the "free will" piece and proved that you are assuming falsely
in regards to the altar,i see u changed your tune...we were talking about bowing to the Ark as u gave 1Kings for an argument to wiseale out of the idolatry charge,again i showed u the silliness and sloppyness of your argument
going into "likeness" is another sloppy argument...2 different "likenesses" do not make right idolatry either so think again
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos
just curious,the so called "altar" that u have in most ortxodox churches,where does it come into play when the Bible talks about Jesus Christ has made ONE sacrifice ONCE (Heb. 10:12;14) and has PERFECTED all that are sanctified?
what are the so called 'priests' in the ortxodox churches do in regards with those 'altars' ,today?
i know the pathetic excuse that RCC gives for its use of the "altar",what's your excuse?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
1st- The Altar is where the Holy Bible is placed as well as the Blood and Body of Christ.
2nd- I know your heaved up doctrine believer for i see the disrespect you bring forth towards the Holy Church of Christ! Your like the Jews who claim to believe in God but tread him under foot. Why don't you come out of the closet and reveal which one of the thousands of heaved up doctrines ( "Interesting you don't see that as a pill of fallacies" ) you subscribe too?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
the altar in the OT was used for sacrifices,i ask you again where in the Bible did your church find a commandment to set up an altar for the things you say the altar is used today?
disrespect for your church?i will say it again,u are giving the same circular argument,about the Ortxodox church being "the holy church",that the RCC gives...even the polytheistic Mormon church says that it is "the church"
making assumptions(about "heaved doctrines") means NOTHING without proofs!!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
When they are sacrificing on the altar this is done in worship!
I asked you tell me with who you fellowship with and I'll answer your question of one man heaved up doctrine!
Having an Altar? By the Holy Apostles and confirmed in Heaven.
Facts confirm the Holy Church!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
so,even though i told u that the Bible is my final authority for faith and practice...u went on talking about me "following one mans heaved up.."
i ask u again : who is this "man" that u think i follow? maybe is time for u to stop making assertions u can not prove !?
where did the apostles confirmed this altar of yours?give me the verse
facts?what facts are u talking about?
Jesus Christ(the biblical one) has OFFERED the PERFECT SACRIFICE,no need of any more sacrifices or altar(s)
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
3500 Bible based interpretations out there! So no, your final authority is "YOUR interpretation" of the Bible.
I asked you tell me with who you fellowship with and I'll answer your question, who the one man is!
Matthew 5:23, Revelation 8:3
A factual documented 2000yr old Church! Not 200yrs, while devoid of 1800yrs they also claim to have the truth. Hence the similarities with J.Smith.
The Real Christ commanded us to do this in remembrance of him.The false one's say "NO NEED!!!"
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
Bible interprets itself so don't give the 3500 interpretations nonsense.
i keep telling you that your curch uses the same fallacy that other so called churches use(i.e RCC,Mormons etc)so unless u prove your assertion about Ortxodox 'church' being "the church",u are dreaming and repeating a mantra!
as for the "man"(that for some reason u think i follow) just don't bring the subject up...u were wrong so just admit it and stop making assertions u can NOT prove !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
I see you avoid and are in denial.Denomination are interpretations of what they think.
OK we see in the Holy Scriptures that the Church is the Pillar of Truth.
Read St Ignatius early Church Father,disciple of Apostle John and successor of the bishop seat of Antioch where Apostle Peter sat. See if what you believe and what he believes is the same.
Yes Yes but you failed to address my question which i have asked a few times now, avoidance on your part?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u keep talking interpretetions,why is that?do u think that this mantra of your will become reality if u repeat it long enough? laughable and pathetic
telling me about St. Ignatius is some how going to prove that your church is "the church"...laughable and pathetic!
RCC says that Peter sat in Rome,so who is right ?Rome or Constantinopole?ini mini mine moe
what question are u talking about(try to be specific bc i'm tired of your 'circles' )?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
You carry on but you absolutely have no idea!
Regarding the Altar, do you read my posts? I posted, Matthew 5:23, Revelation 8:3.
Whats this thing about mantras? Are you a Hindu? Seems you have a better understanding on Hinduism than Holy Scriptures!
Yes i have read the NT! Enough to rebuke you for severing the Head (Christ) from his Body (Church).
Apostle Peter was in Antioch before he was in Rome. Look it up yourself!
Put your glasses on!
Tell me who you fellowship with?
Cont-
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i pointed out that(Matt. 5:23) was before 70ad(after 70ad there was no more Temple and NO more altar) so u either do not understand the contex or u choose not to,Rev. 8"3 is taking place in heaven so u still come short for proofs for the the called Ortxodox altar,just don't mention it again as i said your attempt is pathetic
u reapeating the same assertions without proving them is a mantra...get it?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
So Matt 5:23 has nothing to do with us? So Matthew was teaching us to stay under the law?
Also Rev 8:3 is taking place in Heaven very good , do you recall the Lord's prayer?
THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN! So the Orthodox Church is Heaven on earth.
Tell me then since the Bible is your final authority. What are the Traditions that the Apostles are commanding us to hold on too?
So you don't attend a church?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u do not understand the context of Matt. 5:23!in 70ad the Temple was destroyed so the Altar ceased to be used,first of all bc THE LAMB(Jesus Christ) was sacrificed...no more need to sacrifice for sin...Christ payed for our sins(1Cort. 15:2-4).
stop making claims like "ortxodox church is heaven on earth" is quite pityful and laughable...i told u already u're making the pile of your fallacies even bigger.
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
While you stand outside the Ark pointing your finger mocking and laughing at us saying" Why do you have an Ark? You don't need one and why are you all in there?"
We truly cry for you because "YOU DON'T SEE" the storm coming.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos "We truly cry for you because "YOU DON'T SEE" the storm coming" ohh,more mysticism...well i knew u were gone go mystic on me yet once again...LOL
start reading the Bible(start with the gospel of John and then Romans),i'll pray that God will open your understanding and get you out of Babylon(Ortxodoxy),the same way HE took me out of it(Ortxodoxy).
God bless you.
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
The devil tried to lead Christ away, succeeded with Judas and he's leading you through the wide gate as well. don't go down the same road your mentor J . Smith went. Its the path that leads to destruction.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
as for "traditions"(2 Thess. 2:15) the past tense is used by Paul(i.e 'have been taught'),so what ever traditions u have in your church that do not align(or if those traditions of yours can be traced back ONLY after the death of the apostles) with what's in the Bible are TRASH! stop bowing to icons stop kissing the hand of priest(s),(all of that is sin)...
and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and u shall be saved !(Acts 16:30-31)
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Well Well Well, you don't cease to expose your support for your heretical movement!
Altars are spoke of, throughout the New Testament! Heresy on your part!
So your heaved up church has the authority to know the Holy Tradition, That started 100yrs ago? Amusing!
Past tense yes it was taught not written :-o
So lets see, you deny the Christ established a Church, you deny the Church has existed for 2000yrs. You must be a closet Mormon!
There are no claims! Just FACTS that you cant see.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i alredy knew u can not prove your so called 'altar'...LOL
what "FACTS" are u talking about? ohhh,sorry i get it more mysticism on your part,isn't that nice?!
what the apostles taught was then put in writing(NT) so u still can NOT prove your "holy traditions"
just bc "altars' are mentioned in the NT does NOT prove "the ortxodox altar",u are in desperately need of a course in Logic
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
You are the one who's proved nothing, not to mention see the same! Your mental understanding is based on your ego.
What the Apostles taught is all in the Bible? So what St Pauls years of preaching and teachings went into a few letters?
Altars are mentioned in the Bible because they are used.
Your an interesting person a one person church.Who doesnt need to go to Church.
Please dont try and bless me, it has no value or power from HERESY!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
my understanding is based on the meaning of the words that we have in the Bible,so please spare me your J. Smith FALSE assertions,enough already...i told u that the guy wasn't even a christian!
what we have in the Epistles(Paul's) are enough so i don't get your red herring.
taking "altars" out of context is not how u will prove the ortxodox altar,get busy learning some Logic !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Your understanding is based on a very shallow interpretation to the point of distortion.Thats why i see you and J.Smith with the same spirit.
What we have in the Epistles(Paul's) are enough? Sorry not true in your case!
God has not changed nor has his Faith. It's just these new age christians that came along 2 minutes ago claiming they have the infallible truth and chop up the Holy Scriptures to suit there itchy ears.
Only through Spirit and Truth can i be blessed! Not by heresy!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u are talking about 'heresy' but for some strange reason u still fail to understand that what i pointed out about the Temple being destroyed in 70ad is just historical fact...the Altar that was used in the Jerusalem Temple WAS DESTROYED...these are HISTORICAL FACTS!!!
look up the word heresy and then if u will understand the meaning of it maybe u'll admit your failure...LOL
which one of us "chopped up" the Scripture?ohh,i remember it was u
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i can not bless u,but as i said before: God bless you(just pay attention to what i write and maybe you'll actually 'hear' what i'm saying to u !!!)
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
I read very clearly what you are saying and what im saying back is Heretical people cannot pass on blessings. Like i said your 2minute interpretation is of satan which only causes division and leads people astray to there destruction.
I brush my feet of you and will never take part of your HERESIES. So if you don't want to be with the Church Christ founded then go and hang out with the rest of the heretics and keep your pollution away from me!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos cont.
u are the one who claimed that bc the word 'altar' appears in NT ...ipso facto ,proves the Ortxodox so called altar
again with the Ortxodox being "the church" ??? pathetic and laughable !
start reading on Logic and stop posting,u have NOTHING to say...pathetic mysticism that should be discarted
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Leave your logic in the toilet. We Orthodox live by the Holy Spirit not foolish logic that you confess!
As far as heresy goes your 2 minute heaved up doctrine is full blown heresy - A Corruption of doctrine and it has led many astray and your one of them.
Regarding the Altar your just in denial! Proven to you that they have one in heaven, to a man led by the Holy Spirit would know we must have one here as well. As we confess in the Lords Prayer! Which you obviously don't!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i know that you(the ortxodox) are mystics and misologists,thank u for admiting it.
again with "heaved up doctrines" ?i gave u historical facts about the Temple and Altar.
here is Heb. 10:12-14: "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever , sat down on the right hand of God From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool . For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified"
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos cont.
now,your ortxodox 'altar',what is it good for?
tell me your understanding of it and its functions,do not go on mixing false assertions about "heaved doctrines" or telling me u "live by Holy Spirit"
Logic is a person(Jesus Christ)
read John 1:1 and when u see "WORD", remember that a valid english translation of the Greek "logos" is LOGIC/WISDOM !
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Deflate your ego your logic doesn't compare to Christ Logos Sophia.
So i don't have a problem with Biblical versus. Just the many new age interpretations that are out there!
Like yours for example.
You deny the Church (The Body of Christ.)
You deny the Holy Sacraments (The Mysteries of Christ)
So your mob who struggle to understand the Holy. It's understandable with your two minute heritage. That has no place with the 2ooo yr old Church of Christ- The Orthodox Church!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i gave u one of the menings of the Greek word "logos",u keep confussing what words mean with a so called "interpretation" of mine,strange how u keep hiting a dead horse over and over again
i deny the Ortxodox church and RCC,Mormon church,all of which claim to be "the church",so please stop using this mantra about u(ortxodoxy) being the church,it's still a circular argument that u keep making!!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
So the Holy Bible is not the Word of God and it should not be venerated according to you?
It has been shown to you, that the Orthodox Church is Truly living according to the Holy Scriptures, more so than your empty claims can produce. So go along to your imaginary fellowship, that you fail to say which it is and keep rolling in your delusions!
GOD BLESS THE ORTHODOX CHURCH THAT ALWAYS WAS, IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE SAME!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u ,sir HAVE NOT showed a shred of evidence for ortxodoxy...mantras and unproved assertions are NOT "living according to H Scriptures".
for each verse i gave u from the Bible u come up with mystical and wishful phrases!!!
"And I heard another voice from heaven , saying , Come out of her , my people that ye be not partakers of her sins , and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4)
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
CONT-
So tell me what do they sacrifice on the Altar in Heaven?
Look if you want to shoot me down, give up the water pistol its hilarious.
Holding on to heresy has veiled you from the Truth.
If this wasn't so serious you would be a great comedy show. So throw your humanistic logic away. All its done is expose you as a Joke!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
"So tell me what do they sacrifice on the Altar in Heaven?"
first,apocalyptic literature is highly symbolic !!!
the only things mentioned in Rev. as being offered are "incese and prayers"(Rev. 8:3) now how can ortxodox "priests" mix the 2 together?of course we both know that your so called "priests" are doing something diff. on the altar of your church(incense,bread, wine etc)
as u can see u still come up short.
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Well you can see that the Altar is a place of Worship we are told the angel incensing the Holy Altar does your so call church do this? Where the Holy Bible is venerated.
Also who compiled and canonised the Holy Bible?
Also in remembrance of Christ we partake of the Blessed Blood and Body of Christ. So the Ultimate sacrifice is done upon the Holy Altar. All the things that your new age church don't do, we have done from the beginning! So how is your new age mob Bible based?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i see u still can not explain the ortxodox altar and pick up other topics,the verses about the altar in Revelation says NOTHING of "veneration of the Holy Bible" so u keep adding to the mysticism
the perfect sacrifice was performed by Jesus Christ on the cross almost 2000 yrs ago,what are this "ultimate sacrifice done upon the holy altar" is all about?is this what your so called priest are doing during the liturgy?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
How heretical do you get? Does not the Holy Scripture command us to partake of his blood and Body?
What was preformed on the Altar in the Old Testament was a shadow what was to be. The gift Christ gave us to do in remembrance of him.
Your blind to your own false interpretations and you deny the Blood and Body of Christ as well as his Church! That qualifies you as an antichrist! By denying all those things you deny Christ.
CONT-
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
to partake His blood and body as symbols...when Christ gave the bread and the cup He was not handing literal blood and flesh
he who denies that Jesus come in the flesh (1John 4:3) is antichrist so spare me your mysticism
and get your doctrine straight(from the Bible that is)
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos "Does not the Holy Scripture command us to partake of his blood and Body?"
we are to remember Him until He comes(1Cort. 11:25-26),every time we break bread and wine,but unfortunatelly for u and ortxodoxy there are NO priests or altars mentioned in the verses !so yet again u came up short for your ortxodox altar.
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121 "there are NO priests or altars mentioned" Of course there are priests mentioned. Christ was speaking to those who took with Him for the supper, that is to His disciples and Apostles and the Bishops who consecrate the bread and the wine are the successors of the Apostles.
"He was not handing literal blood and flesh"
He said that the bread and the wine was His flesh and His blood though.
nomust 1 year ago
the verses says NOTHING about "bishops who consacreated the bread" ! this stuff about bishops u just added to the verses so please try to abstain from doing that !!!
bread and wine are SYMBOLS for His blood and flesh.unless u believe HE had a piece of meat torn out of His body and some freshly squezeed blood from His arteries u should not continue with the misrepresentation of what the verse says !
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Like i told you from the beginning Orthodoxy is to deep for you. Your still a baby in the understanding of the Faith, continue on with your milk because the meat is to heavy for you to digest. I hope in your maturity you come to the fullness of understanding but this will only happen by the Blessing of God.
At the moment you believe to what you can digest. In fairness i didn't add anything,
It always was and as St Paul says imitate me for i imitate Christ.
CONT-
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u're right, ortxodoxy is" too deep" bc of it is mysticism!glad u agree
do u even know what "the Faith" is?try not to go mystic in answering this simple question !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
I do agree the Mysteries of God are beyond human comprehension!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
mystery in the Bible means something hidden that now was revealed(Eph. 1:9;6:19;1Tim. 3:16),not the mystical "beyond human comprehension" that your neoplatonic church teaches !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos " In fairness i didn't add anything"
yes u did add and in fairness u should retrect your false assertions about "bishops representing...the table[at the last supper] being an altar
if this is your so called "imitating Christ" then u should think twice before using Christ's name and u in the same sentence!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Missed that symbol verse!
Whats your bishops name? I really need to talk to him.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@martalog121
No i didn't add! Its a historical fact it always was. So again you are wrong!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
To show you your foolish question. Did Nicodemus jump back into his mothers womb?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i asked u about the literal "flesh and blood" that was served at the last supper...why do u keep jumping to diff. topics?Nicodimus ?
martalog121 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@martalog121
Because you cant answer that MYSTERY!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@martalog121
THE POWER OF CHRIST WHO MAKES ALL THINGS POSSIBLE!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos "THE POWER OF CHRIST WHO MAKES ALL THINGS POSSIBLE!"
and this is supposed to be ...what???
an overal answer for your false assertions so far?....laughable ,pathetic and nonsense
martalog121 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@martalog121
Missed that symbol verse!
Whats your bishops name? I really need to talk to him.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@martalog121
John 6:63 DIDN'T SEE THE WORD SYMBOL!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos "I am the bread of life : he that cometh to me shall never hunger ; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst"John 6:35...if u taking the 'eucharist' at your local ortxodox church will never be hungry and thirsty then ask me about symbol again otherwise just stop asking !
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
He's talking about Spiritual bread, so that we can live and UNDERSTAND through the Spirit!
Still missed that word SYMBOL? It's got to be there somewhere for you said it!
Also whats your bishops name? I really, really need to talk to him.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
" He's talking about Spiritual bread"
finally...it takes u forever to admit that at the last supper Jesus was talking metaphorically...the actual bread and wine were SYMBOLS for His flesh and blood
i have a few elders that are on the same "level" with me,as the Bible prescribes,no hierarchical system!
will u say the same mantras that u've been posting here?pious nonsense is all u have
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
So now you believe that the bread and wine becomes his Body and Blood and not symbols of his Body and Blood?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u really need to stop assuming what i belive and what i don't believe.
why in Christ's name do u think i keep talking about SIMBOLS?get busy and start learning a bit of Logic
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Symbols? Your wording not mine!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
ok,what were the bread and wine at the last supper?.were they literal flesh and blood?if they were not then just stop mentioning this topic
as for the elders in 1Tim 5:17 first the PLURAL was used so that alone takes the wind out of RCC and Ortxodoxy both of wich have a pyramidal system,second those elders were to rule in teaching the doctrines,again that doesn't apply to ortxodoxy bc as u have shown so far those bishops of yours have done nothing to teach u the biblical doctrines
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
That's according to you where in your case your non-existent bishop taught you a non- existent doctrine!
Also why do i need a Bishop to teach me doctrine, if i have the Bible? Clearly a contradiction on your part!
Christ say's THIS IS MY FLESH, then it is his Flesh. You say it is symbolic of his flesh or what ever you think it is. I will continue to believe in Christ over anyone else! We Orthodox live by Faith!
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it wrong!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos "...in your case your non-existent bishop taught you a non- existent doctrine!"
if i've been taught a "non-existant doctrine" how can u claim that i follow "heaved up doctrines"?
u are contradicting yourself and show how inept and pathetic your assertions are.
stop posting and embarasing yourself !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
You make remarks that contradict what you claim and then say it to me?
I've asked you questions that you refuse to answer.
If I'm embarrassing according to you then im on the right track. Thanks for the compliment :-)
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
at one point u kept claiming that i follow"heaved up doctrines" then u claimed that i've been taught "non-existant doctrines" this buddy is u contradicting yourself !
are u using this faulty logic in your daily life?
i answer all your questions so please at least show a bit of dignity
as for u being "on the right track"...well another pathetic atempt to mask your ineptness
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
1 Timothy 5:17 (King James Version)
17Let the elders that RULE well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
So are you an elder and to what church?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i see u jump yet again to a diff. topic(Salvation on a diff. channel) and once again u show your ineptness when it comes to what the Bible teaches...
can u answer why is there a Hell if Christ saved all the people(that was one of the claims of that lady in the vid post)?are u a universalit as was the heretic Origen?
i have a feeling(LOL) that u'll go mystic on me...again !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Again a flaw in your understanding.
Its clear those who truly accept his gift and come to Christ will be saved and if the whole world repented and came to Christ they would be saved.
For does not Christ want all to be saved?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
if Christ wants all to be saved isn't He powerful enough to save all?
in the Bible faith(that is the mental act of believing something), and repentance ARE GIFTS FROM GOD!
it is obvious then that if those gifts are withold form some people they will end up in Hell
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Now your refuting the plan of God. God is calling all to freely love him!
Faith is of the Heart, Mind, Body and Soul!
Gifts are given to those who seek him!
Those who end up in hell will be those who reject the will of God and live according to there own will. Which is evil before God and it will be the weight of there sins that will sink them down to the pit of hell.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
those who end up in Hell will be there for their sins
Salvation is of the Lord(Johna 2:9) so God gives Salvation to whomever HE wants (i.e His sheep)
where did u get this false idea that "Faith is of the Body"? (ohh and so u'll know there is no dychotomy heart mind in the Bible,they are synonims and they are usually in the same phrase for EMPHASIS )
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos "Gifts are given to those who seek him!"
so know here is what the Bible says :
' There is NONE that understandeth , there is NONE that seeketh after God'( Rom. 3:11)
u are in total contradiction with the Scriptures
"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing : and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven , and among the inhabitants of the earth : and NONE can stay his hand,or say unto him, What doest thou?"(Dan. 4:35)
your 'god' is an IDOL
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Amos 5:4, 6 SEEK the Lord and ye shall live.
Mat. 6:33 SEEK ye first the Kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat. 7:7-11 SEEK and ye shall find.
Heb. 11:6 For without faith it is impossible to please Him. For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently SEEK Him.
Equal elder? God have mercy on your flock!
Orthodoxy is the path to Salvation, heresies will lead you to destruction.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u seem to forget that OT was given to the JEWS ONLY!
and the NT is written to the professing christians! so once again in your desperate universalism try to put humanity as a total,nice try but u are WRONG !
"Orthodoxy is the path to Salvation"
care to explain this mysticism?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Heretics are the best Scripture twisters i have come across!
You are in total contradiction with the Scriptures by your misunderstandings!
This is why and how you heave up scriptures to suit yourselves!
In Rom 3:11 Is St Paul quoting someone and trying to make a point by it?
Try these;
Jer. 29:13 And ye shall SEEK me, and ye shall find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart
Prvb. 8:17 I love those that love me, and those that SEEK me diligently will find me.
CONT-
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i see u have no reply to the Bible verses i gave uu but somehow u have the audacity to call me a heretic,well as i said when it come to the Bible u are ignorant and inept to even try to defend your dremed up ortxodox doctrines.
so unless u have this basic understanding on how God deals with His people ONLY(in both OT and NT) u will not understand what u read in the Bible
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
You see? Interesting1
Do you so called see, the question regarding Rom 3:11?
Do you so called see, the six versus from the Old and the New regarding your error?
Do you so called see, your not dreaming your having a nightmare?
Do you realise that the OT & NT is the Faith the True God established? that has not changed!
God does not change, as he was, is and always will be the same!
GOD BLESS THE ORTHODOX CHURCH THAT ALWAYS WAS, IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE SAME!
Heretics cant say that!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos "Do you so called see..."
what are u talking about?can't u be more vague?
again with the MANTRA about ortxodox church?
do u even know what the word 'heretic' means?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Read your Bible, Pray to our Lord Jesus Christ and may he guide you.
Take Care
Bye.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u too, really need to start reading the Bible and all the mysticism will probably go away by the Grace of GOD.
God bless you.
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Thanks for your advice but the day i left born-againism and returned back to Orthodoxy, i found through the Holy Church that i could live a thousand life time's and still keep learning the hidden mysteries of the Greatest and Holiest Book in all the universe. So the more you SEEK God the more God reveals.
Look how God Blessed the Orthodox Church to put the Holiest Book together, that everyone knows is
THE HOLY WORD OF GOD!
Reason i rejoice and say GOD BLESS THE ORTHODOX CHURCH +++
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i see u keep to the old circular argument that RCC claims as well(the church put the Bible together)
it is a fallacy and it will be forever no matter how many times people(churches) repeat it,at least try to understand and stop making the fallacious argument
what are this "hidden mysteries" that u've learned so far?the way u defend ortxodoxy is just mysticism pure and simple,u have showed it so many times that it should ring a bell that something is not right in the way u defend it
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Lets breakdown then and simplify it. You keep jumping up and down how Ive got it wrong?
OK then where according to you, did the Holy Bible come from? Now im aware who wrote in it but who canonised it, as we know it today?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
well for one thing,any coucil that u will argue that canonised NT u would have to agree that those so called 'bishops' did not show up and choose from a range of books that they never saw until that day.What any of the council did so to affirm what the churches already used and accepted.This idea that without council X or Y we would not have a NT is bogus.
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Yes of coarse they choose from books that already existed but there were others as well circulating that weren't suppose to be considered in the same light, yet still profitable for teaching but not inspired doctrine. So who put the Holy Bible together?
Stop with your run around answers on it isn't so&so or its bogus. Just answer the question and just in case you forgot it, ill ask it again.
Who put the Holy Bible together?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
the Bible formed the church not the other way around,in Acts we have a chronological sequence of events about how the church started...in the church epistles(1 &2 Timothy,Titus etc) we are told how the church should be and operate.
before any council got together the books of the NT were already recognized and used by "the church",the early church fathers quoted left right and centre from NT without having any decision of a council in the matter of canon
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Yes the Four Gospels were in circulation as well as others, for they were writings of the Apostles to confirm the teachings that had been taught but who took out the books that were also being taught by the early Church?
What happened to these book and there's more but ill give these as an example to make my point!
The book of Jubilees, Epistle of Barnabas*, Shepherd of Hermas*, Paul's Epistle to the Laodiceans, 1 Clement *, 2 Clement, Preaching of Peter, Apocalypse of Peter,
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
those books that did not "make it" were not authoritative in the churches and if u were to read some of these books( that did not "make it") u'll soon realize why...historical inaccuracies,wrong doctrines or contradictory with the books in NT etc.
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
The Bible formed the Church?
So Christ came down with a book in hand according to you? Or did the Apostles walk around with the Bible in hand? Or did they both spread the Gospel by Oral Tradidtion, latter to be written down as a reminder and conformation of what was taught?
So according to you the written proceeded the oral? This is a false statement. No matter how much you want to twist it the Oral teachings came first and was the foundation of the Church and letters came latter.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
NO,every time Jesus taught someting He took the approch "IT IS WRITTEN"(reffering His audience to the WRITEN Old Testament) i chalange u to find me ONE instance were He said :"tradition says.. or according to tradition.." the apostles took the same route... so u have to understand that OT(written that is) was before any church in Rome or Constantinople called itself "the church" any doctrine that Christ or the apostles taught was based on WRITTEN OT, NOT "oral tradition" !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos
can u prove that those "oral traditions", that u mentioned, were something other than what we have in writtting(NT)? i already know your answer so don't bother...LOL
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Without wasting my time why dont you listen to this video, it basically covers Oral Tradition.
If you want me to send you pages, i will but i hate to prove you wrong agaaain!
How could a written text be authoritative outside of a connection to Tradition, if Tradition itself determined which books made up the authoritative text?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
so no answer on the Bible verses" scripture says,it is written...etc" ?i didn't think for a moment that u have a come back for it....as u have showed so far u just make claims that afterward u forget to prove
what kind of "oral tradition" put together the OT?can u show that your "oral traditions" are something other than what the apostles wrote?
as i said before u need to learn a bit of Logic and maybe u'll realize the ineptness of your arguments !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
How many times have you been proven wrong? Your ego surpasses your logic!
I could fill pages but whats the use your ego has blinded you.
Here's an easy one, hopefully it knocks a scale off your eye's.
OT Oral Tradition? Who wrote Genesis and about Father Abraham and his covenant?
Answer this question and you answer your own!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos cont.
to a time were no apostles and the people the apostles taught were dead
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos
"How many times have you been proven wrong? Your ego surpasses your logic!"
so u have no answers but u still make assertions without proving them....how is my "ego surpassing my logic"?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Do you remember this piece of logic from you?
"Gifts are given to those who seek him!"
so know here is what the Bible says :
' There is NONE that understandeth , there is NONE that seeketh after God'( Rom. 3:11)
u are in total contradiction with the Scriptures
do i have to reshow you who was contradicting Holy Scripture?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
how am i in contradiction with the Scripture when i gave u a verse from the Scripture(Rom. 3:11) ?
tell me HOW?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
I asked you who was St Paul quoting and why?
It was all because you took offense to my comment in "seeking" and you pulled out Rom 3:11 to make your point and i showed you numerous passages that proved my point!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
Paul in 1st and 2nd chp. of Rom. show that both jew and gentile(humanity) are guilty before God( and concludes that in Rom. chp 3 as i quoted to u)
again so u understand,just bc we have commandments in OT u can not ASSUME that the jews can fulfill them!
in NT we have the commandment "be perfect...be holy"(Mtth. 5:48) the question then is: are u perfect? NONE of us are so u run into a bit of a problem with your understanding of commandments in the Bible
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
I'm perfected in Christ, through Grace. My struggle is putting my old self to death and living by the Word Of God. For we are to imitate Christ in all things. As Christ says, i call many but only choose a few. Because only a few will truly follow him and his ways.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u did not answer the question(based on the commandment in Matth. 5:48) ARE U PERFECT?..if u are not then u just proved my point about any of us(humanity) being able to obey God's commandments (onlyGOD can fully obey His own commandmends...i.e Jesus Christ was the ONLY man that fulfilled what God demanded)the Law was obeyed for about 33 yrs in the whole history of this planet by the Son of God ONLY!!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos "Do you remember this piece of logic from you...etc?"
where is "my ego" play a part in all of this and how?
time for u to explain so please do so bc i'm tired of your nonsense !!!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Tell me whats the name of your church?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
u have yet to prove me wrong...making assertions without proving them means NOTHING,please try to get it through your head
"Who wrote Genesis and about Father Abraham and his covenant?
Answer this question and you answer your own!" this type of mantra is not "proving me wrong"
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Who wrote Genesis and about Father Abraham and his covenant?
This was given to you to answer not give back unanswered but i am use to it from you!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
Moses wrote the first 5 books in OT...i shoud've known that ! now that u have my answer HOW is this related to my "ego surpases my logic"...enlighten me and be specific and define your terms well...please !!!
as for my church name, is irrelevant to our discussion
just bc we have commandments in the Bible it is a fallacy to say that u have the ability to do them...this was my point in Rom. 3:11 ,
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
You've been harping on about Oral Tradition and telling me to use logic but as now you can see from Father Abraham to Moses its been passed on by Oral Tradition! So if you want me to use logic use your own first and have a look at the bigger picture before you make remarks about logic!
Where did ability to do them come from? I was making a point it's what we must do and you were saying i was contradicting Scripture. Are you twisting again?
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
the writtings of Moses were based on revelation from God not oral tradition(God spoke with Moses)
in John 6:65,Jesus points to the fact that NO man can come to Him unless...it is given by the Father!!!talk about y "seeking" ...LOL
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
1 Timothy 2:3-7 "...God our Saviour, who wants "ALL MEN" TO BE SAVED and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a RANSOM FOR "ALL MEN" - the testimony given in its proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle - I am telling the truth, I am not lying - and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles."
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i see u went Pelagian on me...i was expecting it,LOL
in context "all men.." Paul talks about cathegories of men NOT all men as in humanity as a whole
if Christ was a Ransom for all then why is there a Hell ?
doctrines have implications ,get it?
i'm still waiting for an answer on your FALSE assertion about my "ego and logic" time to put up or shut up !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
If Christ was a Ransom for all then why is there a Hell ?
is that the best you got? Because not all will follow!
Ive already wrote about your egotistical logic and to make the point clearer for you give me the name of your so called church.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos"Because not all will follow!"
ohh,so now Salvation is based on u "following" ? "Ive already wrote about your egotistical logic "
i beg the difference,u made an assertion but as usual u forgot to prove your assertion...nice try but u failed AGAIN!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
[23] Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he MUST deny himself and take up his cross daily and FOLLOW me. [24] For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. [25] What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?
So YES SALVATION IS BY ME FOLLOWING!
Told you and ill ask you again tell me the so called church you attend and ill PROVE you r egotistical EGO!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
Salvation is a GIFT(Eph. 2:8-9) and is accomplished by GOD NOT you!!!...u can not demanded it, u can no earn it, u can not maintaine it !!! no wonder your church is so far off from christianity.
no profs for your FALSE assertion about my :"ego and logic"....strange how u keep repeating the mantra tough...LOL
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
This is why heaved up doctrines like the one you FOLLOW will LEAD you astray!
Nobody said Salvation is not a gift but if you dont follow your not saved! So stop twisting comments to suit your egotistical debate!
NO so called church?
Read your scriptures if one continues to lie for example, they will not inherit the Kingdom. So you better repent ( TURN AWAY ) from your lying doctrine! You keep sinning and you will die!
I Worship God and every Word that comes out of his mouth!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
again with "heaved up doctrines"?aren't u tired of parroting the same nonsense over and over?but than again u have NOTHING else to say when it comes to the Bible...LOL
"Nobody said Salvation is not a gift but if you dont follow your not saved"
u keep contradicting yourself...there are NO "ifs" or "buts" bc God is responsible for ones Salvation
repent for what?be specific and STOP making FALSE assertions if u can't prove them...
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
I cant believe how you have to be led step by step!
Acts 26:20- First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
What do i have to DO?
I told you a hundred time's your heresy that you support and follow will lead you to death. I'm parroting as you put it because you wont tell me what so called church you fellowship in!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
what are the "heaved doctrines" that u keep PARROTING? Acts 26:20 say NOTHING about heaved up doctrines" so please stop the mysticism and tell me what do u mean by "heaved up doctrines" NAMED THEM !!!
STOP jumping from topic to topic and answer one at the time...the OT was well defined and finished before any church in rome or constantinopole started to call itself "the church"...any toughts on that? retract your FALSE assertion that ortxodoxy gave us the Bible
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121 Acts26:20 talks about what we have to do to be saved!
So are you to tell me that all there is in your Bible, is the OT ???
Tell me who was the Church that rebuked the heresies of the Arians, Monothistes and the infallible pope? Asked u, name of your so called church, please!!!
It is you who's jumping. I've answered every question and to complete my question i might have to ask one from you. So STOP jumping around pretending you know something and just answer the question!!!!!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos "So are you to tell me that all there is in your Bible, is the OT ?"
i did not say that...i told u that your assertion about Ortxodoxy giving us the Bible is FALSE so just admit it and do NOT make the FALSE assertion ever again!!!
in Acts 26:20 there us NO mention of u "keeping yourself saved"(Paul tells Agripa about his "mission" to the gentiles) ...again u are very confussed about santification which is a fruit of justification.
the church appealed to the NT not traditions !!!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos
my dear,faith(the mental activity of believing something) repentance(a simple change of mind) are GIFTS from GOD,if u think that u conjured up your 'faith' and 'repentance' u are deciving yourself,NONE of us can believe in Jesus Christ by our own abilities/powers
your mystical church has misled u very very badly...u should start reading the Bible and learn a bit of Logic too...
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Your in denial! Why raise the point about the OT? There are facts who Canonised the NT and like i said, it was the same Church that rebuked the heresies at that time as well. didn't get your answer on that?
Acts26:20
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. Read it again!
My Church is not mystical it is the HOLY ORTHODOX CHURCH that was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ!
Yours is the mystical church because you avoid my question!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
me in "denial" ?aren't u the one that made the assertion that ortxodox church gave us the Bible?u have very short memory too..LOL
strange the way u do the gimnastics...of the mind,remind me of mystics...ohhh,u are a mystic ! LOL
just be honest and retract your FALSE assertion about the Bible and stop running around like a chicken without the head !
and i told u that `faith and repentance` are GIFTS from GOD,get it?
i see u call me what u are(mystic)...
how old are u?
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121 Again you answered no questions?
There are facts who Canonised the NT and like i said, it was the same Church that rebuked the heresies at that time as well. Which Church is that?
THE Holy Orthodox church.
Why dont you be honest and confess that you follow a heaved up FALSE doctrine! That's why you are chicken to tell me the name of your so called church!
THE HOLY ORTHODOX CHURCH was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ!
To hate the ORTHODOX Church, is the same as saying i hate Christ!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
i see u are equivocating and made some adjustments to your initial claim(which was about the Bible NOT NT only) too chicken to admit u were wrong? well i did not expect much from u...as i said u need to get some lessons in Logic and start reading the Bible...
stop it already with the mantras!
stop it with the FALSE assertions(i never said that i hated your church) unless u tell me what u mean by "heaved up doctrines" just abstain from postin the words,u are pathetic and innept !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
1st point- I'm trying to show you by the Church who fought the heresies is also the same Church that Canonised the Holy Bible.
Your just like a Muslim, just want to see it as you see it. Same spirit i suppose but you wouldn't understand what i mean by that!
Again you answered no questions?
Why dont you be honest and confess that you follow a heaved up FALSE doctrine! That's why you are chicken to tell me the "NAME" of your so called church!
At least I'm no coward!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
the church(yours, RCC or any other) DID NOT canonise the OT get it through your head and stop this foolish assertion!
u are still a mystic and still make awfull assertions that u keep forgetting to prove
my advice to u....just stop posting u are inept and have no idea what u are talking about
mantras will never become true just becouse one repeats them ad noseum,ad infinitum
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Septuagint is the OT the Orthodox canonised to have in the Holy Bible but the KJV use the Masoratic text.
No we did not Canonise the OT we Canonised the completeness of the Holy Bible that belongs on the Altar of the Holy Orthodox Church!
GLORY TO GOD FOR THE HOLY ORTHODOX CHURCH! THAT WAS, IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE SAME. JUST AS GOD."IS"
The reason you have no idea what im talking about is because babies choke on meat. Stick with the milk you'll get there :-)
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos "The reason you have no idea what im talking about is because babies choke on meat. Stick with the milk you'll get there :-)"
ineptness masquarading as wisdom...laughable and pathetic
just stop posting!
u'll be a lot more wiser if u did not say anything.
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
Your right i have sinned before God with you.
It is written Matthew 7:6.
The BIBLE is my authority as you say! I tell you, your interpretation is your authority led by your ego. No different to a Muslim who quotes from the Bible but his understanding is WAY OFF BASE!
400 yrs is 1600 yrs short in qualifying as the Church of Christ. So your doctrine belongs in the same hole as mormons, islam and all the other latter day heaved up interpretations!
Best you get off the net completely!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
taking Matth. 7:6 out of context is some how your come back...pathetic(u should've started with verse 5...that's a perfect match for u..LOL)
i see u moved from doctrines to interpretations...what's another fallacy right?u made so many of them,who's counting right?(care to prove how my "ntrepretation is led by my ego"?)
i told u already that the mantra about 2000 that u and RCC "SING" all the time is just a circular argument...
stop parroting back the advice i gave u
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
The2000yr old argument is a fact that you cant handle!
I didn't move you just cant fathom what is meant from interpretations that started a new 400 yr old doctrine. Fact!
Matt 7:5 I agree with you about my plank. At least i have an eye to remove it from but not much help to blind people like U.
Regarding Interpretations and your denial of doctrinal fellowship, which then broadens the protestant doctrine because you people a very different in beliefs but all seem to be wrong!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
the "2000 yrs" is a fact? u need to wake up from your dream,that argument is used by RCC as well so which is it?ortodoxy or RCC
i still don't get the way u "rationalize" the fact that your claims for ortxodoxy are matched by RCC almost exactly but for some reason u continue to be blind to the fact that ortxodoxy's and RCC's claims CAN NOT both be right...just tell me how do u see your church being "the church" when u have a diff. orgazization(RCC) claiming almost the same nonsense?
martalog121 1 year ago
@Adonomos
"all seem to be wrong"...according to your mythological view of the Bible
bc of the alegorical and mystical aproch(that your church&RCC is using still)"christianity"had a long period called the Dark Ages.Europe was in darkness for centuries and by what RCC and Ortxodoxy have been doing ,right now we are headed back to those damnable times.
the western civilazation is a byproduct of preaching of the Gospel,all the liberties that we still enjoy are bc of the Reformation !!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121
1-It may all seem wrong to you but that doesn't mean its wrong! Just because you dont know. This is the ego that surfaces when people dont know or refuse when faced with facts.
Martin Luther is the father of protestantism and his father is the Rcc. Like i said before Rcc and the Orthodox Church was once the one and the same Church but just like there protestant children they heaved up doctrines for themselves that were never taught and Rome then broke away to continue its heresies.
Adonomos 1 year ago
@Adonomos
how do u know my ego?if mantras are "facts" than i'm the pope....of RCC that is,u still make ambiguous assumptions and keep forgetting that without profs your assumptions mean NOTHING.
u still fail to show how your claims for ortxodoxy are true and RCC's claims are wrong/false...again,pay attention and stop making the same fallacious assumptions!!!
martalog121 1 year ago
@martalog121 Because you support Martin Luther as your pope this is why you say your protestant and as we all know protestants started 400 yrs ago!
Read the Church Fathers and there they will show you the errors of your beliefs, not to mention the fables like once saved always saved and symbolic!
Adonomos 1 year ago
@martalog121
2-Rome officially split in the year 1054 from the Orthodox but there was tensions way before that, because of the added doctrine that was never taught. So in fairness Martin Luther wasn't the one to rebuke Rome. The Orthodox did so centuries before Luther was conceived. So why are you people saying you started the reformation? You all continued Rome's theme and heaved up mini popes to promote your cause so your first pope is Martin Luther and his pope was the Rcc, father like son!
Adonomos 1 year ago