Bit of a back-story here tho; Rage and ST were both on Epic records and Rage would open for ST in Europe '92. ST were peaking commercially but by '95 Epic didn't renew their contract. After that the band pretty much fell apart and they have never been able to get back to that level.
The "hypocrisy in capitalism" argument is a weak one and I'm surprised MM still uses it. I like early ST but this dude needs to chill. He's defo been a pussy in his career at times. Read up on it.
Yes Rage Against The Machine members live also in a capitalist society and eat capitalist food. That makes them hypocrites too??? Weak arguments but what do I expect anyway?
No one can live in an uncapitalsit way in a capitalist society.
Anyway I'm glad they used a corporation, because if they hadn't, their mesaage wouldn't be heard and all of you wouldn't be bitching about it now.
@drizztf88 Shit. I like RATM but they are just as capitalist as the beatles and KISS. Are they hypocrites? YES. Do you know how much they sell tickets to see them ? At least in s. america is really expensive. Search for real anarchopunk if you want, Sin Dios is the best, and they did never need a "corporation" and they also used to sell their records really cheap. Also, zack de la rocha used to help and travel to chiapas to help the EZLN, he is probably the only one in RATM doing what he preach.
Suicidal Tendencies may not be out protesting, but they are and always have had a good message. To stand up for yourself and what you believe in. Rage has a political message, but all their protesting and activism is for publicity. They were signed to a major label, making mainstream radio music while trying to be rebellious. They're hypocrites and sellouts. ST has never sold out and never will.
what makes RATM hypocrites?that they were signed to a major label?did u forget that for the longest time st was signed to epic records,a major label.to say RATM are sell outs cuz they get heard is like sayin malcolm x is a sell out cuz his autobiography is sold in barnes & nobel.when u have a message that strong n politically charged,the point is to get it heard by all.
@MrSFblack RATM They made millions of dollars preaching communism. That is the pure definition of hypocrisy. They used the very system they rally against. Communism doesn't allow for freedom of speech, obviously, capitalism does.
@opacid what just because RATM has been able to get their music heard n recognized makes them hypocrites?the messeges in their music are obviously bigger than capitilism,otherwise u wouldnt hear about them putting on free shows or letting fans download their music for free.u forget,communism is meant to represent a free society,where nobody is above or below anyone n everyones opinion are supposed to be treated as equal to the next persons.where everyone is to have freedom of speech,read marx.
@MrSFblack Communism makes everyone dirt poor except for the few elites. In the 1920s almost every American owned a refrigerator. In the 1980s most Soviets didn't own a refrigerator, it was considered a luxury item which only special people could obtain. Communism is supposed to be great, yet I haven't seen any country successfully master it's elusive ideals which the left always argues it has. Let's also not forget the RATM invokes violence against people they disagree with.
@opacid those communist failures u refer to didnt stick to its key principles,if u read karl marx communist manifesto u would know what they are.also,since when has RATM ever invoked or even promoted violence against anyone if they didnt agree wit them?u sound like a right wing ignoramus when u accuse them of that.
@MrSFblack Interesting that no one who follows Karl Marx has succeeded in establishing utopia. You don't have to be an extreme right winger to know that Communism is a failure. I don't care if you think I'm a right wing ignoramus, I simply believe in the constitution and choose individual responsibility over collective majority.
RATM sparked a riot at the DNC in Los Angeles in 2000. Their only cause for doing anything for "free" is to spread their propaganda. It benefits them to do so.
@opacid what exactly makes capitilism any better than communism?the state this country is in doesnt make capitilism look no better.anything can fail if not executed properly.to hold RATM responsible for what happened at the dnc in 2000 is just ass backwards.the riot was just police orchestrated chaos,disrupting a sanctioned protest.they dont speak propaganda just truth,we should have the right to oppose our government.otherwise we're no better than the failed communist u talk about.
@MrSFblack The fact that socialists and communists have been working to eliminate capitalism over the past hundred years is the problem. There is no free trade but a mixed market. I oppose the government because of it's inability to limit itself and it's boundless leaps toward socialism. Within our system we are able to correct the mistakes. Under communism which is a direct assault on the republic we have no choice for ourselves. Even in the best of situations it's mob rules.
@MrSFblack As for RATM, when a band plays "music" and the lyrics inspire hatred for the US and promote a political system opposite to what this country was founded on, should they be considered "music" or a political movement? Freedom of speech is great, it allows us to see who our enemies are. Communism is against our constitution, so it's interesting that people who advocate against it feel the need to invoke it.
@xhuntarianx i doubt their activism was out of publicity,these are guys that have been stating the same messages n views since before they blew up.these are guys who cops tried to shut their show down stating their lyrics are against law inforcement officers.this was a band that promoted these messages of rebellion even when they were jus startin off,opening up for st might i add.plus when they did gain success n started seein profits,it went to support organizations like EZLN.
Did suicidal tendencies perform a protest concert at 2000 dmc, did they shoot a video at the new york stock exchange, how much activism has ST actually been involved in? a rebellious band like RATM has to be mainstream because then it's pointless, the difference between ST and RATM is that when ST have something to say no one cares and when RATM do everyone listens so what ST do is like flicking off someone when they're not looking. plus RATM walk the walk unlike ST.
i mean there really not comparable because RATM talks about political issues and suicidal and infectious grooves talk about random shit like rage isnt trying to be hardcore or anything they are just trying to voice their opinions but i dont know i like all three
The thing about RATM is, they are a band who tries so hard to be defiant against corporate America and the government right? But at the same time, they're on a major record label, all over the radio and the whole band besides the singer had the very mainstream radio friendly side project Audioslave. You can't act all rebellious when your making radio friendly pop music, it makes no sense. Their talented for sure, but their also hypocrites.
well if your music isnt heard by a mass audience then how can you get your point across? true hypocrisy is when you expect a band to have a rebellious political message and when they try to get the point across they're hypocrites.
If Mike Muir was such a sellout, don't you think he'd be a little more well known. Most people have no idea who he is, and a lot of the kids nowadays don't even know about ST. He ain't a sellout by any means, Mike has always kept it real, and his music speaks for itself. If he was a sellout his bands would never have gone into so many different genres and experimentation. He could have easily opted for the MTV friendly flavor of the month sound, but he didn't.
Mike has no room to talk, I like both bands music, but frankly mike muir is a sellout; new era caps? guitar hero? the guy is wearing a fucking "Monster" hat
and yes Ik RATM went to guitar hero but that was on tomo morello who is another sellout, he owned the rights to RATMs music
Actuallt after "The Art of Rebellion" Mike purposely made "Suicidal for Life" as uncommercial as possible because he never wanted Suicidal to be a big commercial band and he was unhappy with "The Art of Rebellion" even though it was the bands biggest seller.
everyone has his own opinion but RATM will never be face of the real rebel music comparing to ST (band that was banned by the law to play but always kept coming back)... I don't see how could Mike be jealous of RATM.
Because Zack made stronger lyrics? No way dude :)
Because RATM had better musicians?? Impossible my friend. Think about MUIR, CLARK, GEORGE, TRUJILLO and HERRERA lineup (nobody, nowhere, never on that level)
I'm NOT disrespecting you but maybe we have different views about sucsess
did suicidal tendencies perform a protest concert at the 2000 national democratic convention, did they shoot a video at the new york stock exchange, how much activism has suicidal tendencies actually been involved in? people complain constantly that rebellious music is never supported by the mainstream and when ratm blows up they're now sellouts, well whats the point of a politically-charged band if no one even knows who they are? the difference between......
Bit of a back-story here tho; Rage and ST were both on Epic records and Rage would open for ST in Europe '92. ST were peaking commercially but by '95 Epic didn't renew their contract. After that the band pretty much fell apart and they have never been able to get back to that level.
The "hypocrisy in capitalism" argument is a weak one and I'm surprised MM still uses it. I like early ST but this dude needs to chill. He's defo been a pussy in his career at times. Read up on it.
dillinjaesc 1 month ago
@dillinjaesc also Rage were a prized up and coming band on Epic around the early 90's - ST's label . Of course Mr Muir is gonna be a bit bitter.
dillinjaesc 1 month ago
Wow its like that? yeah RATM arent about shit! LMAO! ST 4 vida holmes!
redsuxh8r 1 year ago
La musique que l'on entend en fond sonore, c'est Niagara avec le titre "les champs brûlent" :=)
AlternateRunner 1 year ago 2
S.T. FROM BIRTH
carnifex714 1 year ago
Yes Rage Against The Machine members live also in a capitalist society and eat capitalist food. That makes them hypocrites too??? Weak arguments but what do I expect anyway?
No one can live in an uncapitalsit way in a capitalist society.
Anyway I'm glad they used a corporation, because if they hadn't, their mesaage wouldn't be heard and all of you wouldn't be bitching about it now.
Proof that Rage are doing something good.
drizztf88 1 year ago
@drizztf88 Shit. I like RATM but they are just as capitalist as the beatles and KISS. Are they hypocrites? YES. Do you know how much they sell tickets to see them ? At least in s. america is really expensive. Search for real anarchopunk if you want, Sin Dios is the best, and they did never need a "corporation" and they also used to sell their records really cheap. Also, zack de la rocha used to help and travel to chiapas to help the EZLN, he is probably the only one in RATM doing what he preach.
memohavok 1 year ago
he likes monster ?
BarrioPunkRock 1 year ago
Suicidal Tendencies may not be out protesting, but they are and always have had a good message. To stand up for yourself and what you believe in. Rage has a political message, but all their protesting and activism is for publicity. They were signed to a major label, making mainstream radio music while trying to be rebellious. They're hypocrites and sellouts. ST has never sold out and never will.
xhuntarianx 1 year ago
@xhuntarianx
what makes RATM hypocrites?that they were signed to a major label?did u forget that for the longest time st was signed to epic records,a major label.to say RATM are sell outs cuz they get heard is like sayin malcolm x is a sell out cuz his autobiography is sold in barnes & nobel.when u have a message that strong n politically charged,the point is to get it heard by all.
MrSFblack 1 year ago
@MrSFblack RATM They made millions of dollars preaching communism. That is the pure definition of hypocrisy. They used the very system they rally against. Communism doesn't allow for freedom of speech, obviously, capitalism does.
opacid 1 year ago
@opacid what just because RATM has been able to get their music heard n recognized makes them hypocrites?the messeges in their music are obviously bigger than capitilism,otherwise u wouldnt hear about them putting on free shows or letting fans download their music for free.u forget,communism is meant to represent a free society,where nobody is above or below anyone n everyones opinion are supposed to be treated as equal to the next persons.where everyone is to have freedom of speech,read marx.
MrSFblack 1 year ago
@MrSFblack Communism makes everyone dirt poor except for the few elites. In the 1920s almost every American owned a refrigerator. In the 1980s most Soviets didn't own a refrigerator, it was considered a luxury item which only special people could obtain. Communism is supposed to be great, yet I haven't seen any country successfully master it's elusive ideals which the left always argues it has. Let's also not forget the RATM invokes violence against people they disagree with.
opacid 1 year ago
@opacid those communist failures u refer to didnt stick to its key principles,if u read karl marx communist manifesto u would know what they are.also,since when has RATM ever invoked or even promoted violence against anyone if they didnt agree wit them?u sound like a right wing ignoramus when u accuse them of that.
MrSFblack 1 year ago
@MrSFblack Interesting that no one who follows Karl Marx has succeeded in establishing utopia. You don't have to be an extreme right winger to know that Communism is a failure. I don't care if you think I'm a right wing ignoramus, I simply believe in the constitution and choose individual responsibility over collective majority.
RATM sparked a riot at the DNC in Los Angeles in 2000. Their only cause for doing anything for "free" is to spread their propaganda. It benefits them to do so.
opacid 1 year ago
@opacid what exactly makes capitilism any better than communism?the state this country is in doesnt make capitilism look no better.anything can fail if not executed properly.to hold RATM responsible for what happened at the dnc in 2000 is just ass backwards.the riot was just police orchestrated chaos,disrupting a sanctioned protest.they dont speak propaganda just truth,we should have the right to oppose our government.otherwise we're no better than the failed communist u talk about.
MrSFblack 1 year ago
@MrSFblack The fact that socialists and communists have been working to eliminate capitalism over the past hundred years is the problem. There is no free trade but a mixed market. I oppose the government because of it's inability to limit itself and it's boundless leaps toward socialism. Within our system we are able to correct the mistakes. Under communism which is a direct assault on the republic we have no choice for ourselves. Even in the best of situations it's mob rules.
opacid 1 year ago
@MrSFblack As for RATM, when a band plays "music" and the lyrics inspire hatred for the US and promote a political system opposite to what this country was founded on, should they be considered "music" or a political movement? Freedom of speech is great, it allows us to see who our enemies are. Communism is against our constitution, so it's interesting that people who advocate against it feel the need to invoke it.
opacid 1 year ago
@opacid plus RATM have never come out n said that they represent communism,though they have leftist views...
MrSFblack 1 year ago
@xhuntarianx i doubt their activism was out of publicity,these are guys that have been stating the same messages n views since before they blew up.these are guys who cops tried to shut their show down stating their lyrics are against law inforcement officers.this was a band that promoted these messages of rebellion even when they were jus startin off,opening up for st might i add.plus when they did gain success n started seein profits,it went to support organizations like EZLN.
MrSFblack 1 year ago
ratm lyrics are generally political, suicidal tendencies are more about the individual, there you go, end of.
slantyrock 1 year ago
Did suicidal tendencies perform a protest concert at 2000 dmc, did they shoot a video at the new york stock exchange, how much activism has ST actually been involved in? a rebellious band like RATM has to be mainstream because then it's pointless, the difference between ST and RATM is that when ST have something to say no one cares and when RATM do everyone listens so what ST do is like flicking off someone when they're not looking. plus RATM walk the walk unlike ST.
xx1994xxversion2 1 year ago
rage against the machine kills suicidal tendencies.
xx1994xxversion2 1 year ago
rage is ten times the band infectious grooves would ever be but thats just my opinion
davebaczynsky 2 years ago
@davebaczynsky RATM can't touch Suicidal Tendencies or Infectious Grooves. They are mainstream posers.
xhuntarianx 2 years ago
i mean there really not comparable because RATM talks about political issues and suicidal and infectious grooves talk about random shit like rage isnt trying to be hardcore or anything they are just trying to voice their opinions but i dont know i like all three
davebaczynsky 2 years ago
The thing about RATM is, they are a band who tries so hard to be defiant against corporate America and the government right? But at the same time, they're on a major record label, all over the radio and the whole band besides the singer had the very mainstream radio friendly side project Audioslave. You can't act all rebellious when your making radio friendly pop music, it makes no sense. Their talented for sure, but their also hypocrites.
xhuntarianx 2 years ago
agreed
davebaczynsky 2 years ago
well if your music isnt heard by a mass audience then how can you get your point across? true hypocrisy is when you expect a band to have a rebellious political message and when they try to get the point across they're hypocrites.
xx1994xxversion2 1 year ago
until suicidal tendencies do half the activism rage did they you can talk.
xx1994xxversion2 1 year ago
He's talking about RATM being hypocrites. They are major POS! ST would roll RATM into a cigarette and smoke them.
opacid 2 years ago
If Mike Muir was such a sellout, don't you think he'd be a little more well known. Most people have no idea who he is, and a lot of the kids nowadays don't even know about ST. He ain't a sellout by any means, Mike has always kept it real, and his music speaks for itself. If he was a sellout his bands would never have gone into so many different genres and experimentation. He could have easily opted for the MTV friendly flavor of the month sound, but he didn't.
xhuntarianx 2 years ago
I donno why but i'm kinda sad seein Cyco Miko getting older and older every time.
ST4life!!!
gleb202 2 years ago
Mike has no room to talk, I like both bands music, but frankly mike muir is a sellout; new era caps? guitar hero? the guy is wearing a fucking "Monster" hat
and yes Ik RATM went to guitar hero but that was on tomo morello who is another sellout, he owned the rights to RATMs music
d4z3dnc0nfuz3d 2 years ago
can't agree with mike on this one .. i think hes just jealous cuz of ratm's sucsess and how THEY became the face of rebel music, not them...
SomeRandomDude00 2 years ago
Actuallt after "The Art of Rebellion" Mike purposely made "Suicidal for Life" as uncommercial as possible because he never wanted Suicidal to be a big commercial band and he was unhappy with "The Art of Rebellion" even though it was the bands biggest seller.
CelestialWoodway 2 years ago 2
everyone has his own opinion but RATM will never be face of the real rebel music comparing to ST (band that was banned by the law to play but always kept coming back)... I don't see how could Mike be jealous of RATM.
Because Zack made stronger lyrics? No way dude :)
Because RATM had better musicians?? Impossible my friend. Think about MUIR, CLARK, GEORGE, TRUJILLO and HERRERA lineup (nobody, nowhere, never on that level)
I'm NOT disrespecting you but maybe we have different views about sucsess
sgtRadakovic 2 years ago 4
5.10... PUSSIES ARE PUSSIES!!!
ST4life!!!
sgtRadakovic 2 years ago 7
yes,rage against the machine are full of shit
slantyrock 3 years ago 9
did suicidal tendencies perform a protest concert at the 2000 national democratic convention, did they shoot a video at the new york stock exchange, how much activism has suicidal tendencies actually been involved in? people complain constantly that rebellious music is never supported by the mainstream and when ratm blows up they're now sellouts, well whats the point of a politically-charged band if no one even knows who they are? the difference between......
xx1994xxversion2 1 year ago
suicidal tendencies are the shit, but rage against the machine fucking kick ass, tom morello is a god!
sxepunk336 3 years ago
fag
essejh6 2 years ago 3
RATM is nothing. No personality, No nothing. Other thing is Morello is a nice guitar player, but the band itself is NOTHING.
edgarsalas 2 years ago 4
Cyco Miko!!!
dimbagstudent 3 years ago
merci tinkiet !!
dejectedmusic 3 years ago