Voice Teacher DOCUMENTARY (TEASER)

[buzzcen]

is this a fucking joke, because it's really funny

[filmictenor]

This is an actual movie.  It is funny, but it's not a joke.

[Cantormatis]

Fake? Fischer Dieskau is fake. Not pretty, either. But singing with the instrument you have and not pushing it beyond all recognition usually means the most beautiful sound. But think about singing with the voice God gave you, instead of manufacturing a sound that is indeed "fake." Screaming on pitch is, to my ears anyway, fake.

[filmictenor]

You seem to associate loud with pushing. I guess Caruso pushed too, right? For my money, Rolando Villazon pushes beyond his capacity which is why he cracks in public. Bjoerling's top was brilliant and LOUD because he didn't push, he LEANED on his voice, making it expand and contract.

[filmictenor]

Fischer Dieskau is one of the greatest singers of all time. By effortlessly dismissing one of the great vocal icons of the 20th century, you're credibility in these matters has now sunk to the bottom of the ocean.

[Cantormatis]

Oh, boy. Dieskau crooned like crazy and barked the rest of the time. I respect his artistry but can't stand to listen to him. As for my credibility- well, I can't speak for matters of taste. As for issues of volume and pushing, yes, I believe that Caruso did push sometimes and said as much in his own words, particularly on top. On the other hand, his instrument seemed able to handle that; he also died rather young. It's a matter of using well what you have, whether you're Kraus or Birgit Nilsson

[Cantormatis]

One of the truly great quacks in the racket today, his students often make horrendous sounds and often push their voices beyond recognition. Never sing louder than you can sing pretty, said one of my teachers- and he was right. Why do I want a huge UGLY sound when I can have a beautiful one? SIng like what kind of animal is the question, Don. You sing like a donkey.

[filmictenor]

"Pretty" is a personal assessment. One person's "pretty" is another persons "fake". If you're looking for prettiness, go to a coach. Don operates strictly in the building and structuring of one's throat. Also, there's a distinction between singing in the GYM and singing in a concert. Pretty or not, Don has an impressive machine.

[newutrechtave]

These exercises aren't for concertizing. They're advanced, high-intensity applications meant for structure. Pretty scales don't build the throat.

[filmictenor]

And how exactly have you made this conclusive determination?

[songsofscarlet]

When I hear him sing up to the Bb (it's atrocious) at the end and when I watch the whole tongue exercise that he does...to name a few. Sorry, he seems like a nice guy, but there is so much I could say that would completely debunk all that he is teaching.

[filmictenor]

What makes the B atrocious? If you're looking for beauty and grace from a voice teacher's exercise, than I can't help but assume you're ill informed about vocal facilitation. That was a mechanical high note meant for the proverbial gym.  And this guy clearly has an impressive machine. I think your critique belongs in a different discussion.

[songsofscarlet]

You'd be assuming incorrectly. There is no air in the sound and the glottal space is completely closed. Anyone with a voice could squeeze out a Bb like that. The tongue exercise, is bogus. In no way is positioning the tongue going to help produce a healthy sound; it pulls away the muscles that need to be open for the chords to vibrate properly. I know a lot about function exercises that aren't used in performance, but are used to help strengthen the muscles. I saw none in this video...

[filmictenor]

Dude, you don't know what he's teaching and really haven't a clue how effective or ineffective it is. There are thousands of different techniques and vocal philosophies out there. You're just spouting what you think you know about the voice. And just because you read a function exercise in a book, doesn't mean it's correct.

[songsofscarlet]

I feel that the extreme relevancy of the explanation I gave as to why the exercises are wrong, before I made my statement about "function" exercises, is what you should be focusing on. I mean no disrespect, but I am sorry to say that you are wrong again. In no way did any of the statements I made on this page come from a book, but from years of studying. Believe it or not, I have yet to read a book on vocal pedagogy, mostly because they're all full of crap. I'm not spouting anything but facts...

[filmictenor]

For me, the debate is about making dismissive statements without a shred of perspective. This is a 2 minute teaser with no singing, except for one out-of-context high note. If this video were a portion of a voice lesson, I may disagree with your assessment of his credibility, but that's where it would end. Instead, you chose to pass full judgement on a total non-display of one voice teacher's practice: "This man has no clue..." To me, that statement reveals blind-arrogance.

[filmictenor]

I have no doubt that you've studied the voice thoroughly. Facts are good for a discussion, they don't necessarily compliment application. One tongue exercise doesn't reveal anything. Many teachers use tongue exercises in different ways and for different purposes. I simply think you're ill-equipped to dismiss this man. By the way, I see you're a Corelli admirer. Me too, but a poster child of longevity in singing, Franco was not.

[filmictenor]

Also, when talking about air visa-vi the voice, the proper term is compression. If you listen to every-great tenor in history, i.e. Bjoerling, Gigli, Martinelli etc. Those voices were hugely compressed, not a drop of excess air escaped from their throats. I associate the B at the end of this video with that compression mentality.

Btw, you clearly know your stuff and I mean no disrespect either. I hope you're enjoying this exchange as I am.

[songsofscarlet]

I have seen many similar teachers; I studied with one. I know the sound he's making at the end is not open, which negates the foundation of singing: an open glottal space. No proper coordination of the registrations is present in this sound. Please fully explain compression to me; in a more pedagogical manner. I think what you're leading up to, is the old wives tale that Corelli and Delmonaco "pushed" too much, as in pushed the air. BTW I am greatly enjoying this exchange; truly my fav hobby.

[Mendelson]

The sound he's making at the end is plenty open, it's just not SPREAD open. He has a compressed, secure sound that doesn't smother. This has nothing to do with vocal beauty, this is strictly about mechanics. If he were singing a concert like that, your initial criticism would be fair.

[Mendelson]

Corelli is a great hero of mine, but there's a reason he had a 10-15 year career rather than a 30+ career.

[Cantormatis]

He sang for over 25 years, and for 15 in the US.

[Cantormatis]

All of these tenors handled their tops differently, I think. Gigli never had a brilliant top, but it was certainly there. Bjoerling had a brilliant top, but his voice was not huge, and sang best when he did not push. Martinelli often had a sound like he was squeezing it out, it has been said, although I rather like his virility.

[Cantormatis]

I'd disagreee with that. Corelli sang very well for more than twenty years- in fact, better from 1960 on when he began his work with Lauri-Volpi and was actually somewhat lyric. I have heard performances of Corelli as late as 1975 and he sounds pretty good to me.

[bloozboy]

You are completely missing the point of what this guy is doing. The sounds he is making are not meant to be concert sounds. They are voice building sounds. You can't build a voice by singing pretty scales.

[nlj424]

let me guess you are a subscriber to SLS

[Cantormatis]

Speech level singing, is that what you mean? I have no idea what that is. What I would say is to shepherd one's voice carefully; sing with less chest voice especially in the passagio. This is what allows for expansion into the top register- taking pressure off the voice and the throat. IS that SLS? I am a high lyric tenor. I don't sing heavy repertoire. I'll never sing Celeste Aida, not even in concert, and i am okay with that- I sing the right repertoire for me.

[nlj424]

I was commented on another posters know it all comments the way he explained himself in that particular message was exactly out of an SLS book which means Speech Level Singing. SLS is well not something I recommend as I had to have surgery to fix the damge it did to my vocal chords but some like it....and they talk like that particular post...hence the comment

[newutrechtave]

Looks interesting. But will it appeal to people who aren't singers or opera lovers?

[Mendelson]

"Voice Teacher" is a psychological profile of Don. His larger-than-life personality is front and center, so my hope is that a broader audience will engage in it on that level.

[l101177]

Go Danny Mendelson and Scott! Which part of the score did you write, scott?