Ecosystems Miracle Mud - Does It Really Work?

[jaguars4263]

Thanks buddy!!! when is the next video coming out?? Im addicted!!!! Hahaha

[newyorksteelo]

@jaguars4263 Very soon. I should have one by the end of the week hopefully.

[jaguars4263]

Whats up! I just got my bag today, in the mail. Do i have to rinse it out before i put it in the sump?

[newyorksteelo]

@jaguars4263 Do not rinse it or you will defeat its purpose. Shut everything down, add it to the refugium, wait till it settles, and then turn the system back on, but only after it settles. Good luck.

[brinks128]

It's it easy to set up miracle mud on an establish sump/refugium.?

[newyorksteelo]

@brinks128 Yes. It's as simple as adding it carefully and turning on the return pump after it settles.

[tbuckley9131]

hey NYsteelo do you have a videos of how you put together your refugium or of the details of it; thanks'

[newyorksteelo]

@tbuckley9131 Yes. I review this Hang On Back Refugium in a 2 part video. Please check my video list and look for "CPR AquaFuge HOB Refugium Review Part 1 and Par 2" to find the answers you seek. Good luck.

[MrNUFAN666]

Of course!

[MrNUFAN666]

I see your point... And I'm gona use one for my next tank, I guarantee :).

That was the first tank I didn't use the skimmer and it apparently worked well for some time. I guess it might have gone terribly wrong if it had more time to develop, but that I don't know for sure.

However thanks for the info... It is nice watching your vids... Have a nice Christmas and greetings from Germany!

[newyorksteelo]

@MrNUFAN666 Merry Christmas to you and yours as well :) Be sure to keep us posted on your results in the near future.

[MrNUFAN666]

I will! Thanks for the advice. As I recall I do had some problems with algae... Could it have been because of the lack of a (high quality) skimmer?

[newyorksteelo]

@MrNUFAN666 Most likely yes. Without the skimmer, not only will you have issues with algae, because in the end, the excess proteins will have to be processed and so the job falls upon nuisance algae growth, but a scum will develop on the surface of the water indicating excess proteins that the skimmer would otherwise remove. If you plan to add corals, a good skimmer is a must.

[MrNUFAN666]

As I'm setting up a new tank, which will be a nano, I consider using one.

[newyorksteelo]

@MrNUFAN666 Would be a good call from your part if you add the skimmer in my opinion..

[MrNUFAN666]

Yeah I discussed that with the shop owner, where I bought my tank and he told me that the skimmer might also skim vital nutriens out of the water. I've got to say that he is a friend of mine and we tried a lot of different tank types. He wouldn't talk me into something. Well the tank that I spoke of is history now... I sold it when I went to college. But back then I tried it and it worked for me. It was kind composed very much like your system... Deep Sand bed and a refugium with Miracle Mud.

[newyorksteelo]

@MrNUFAN666 Big mistake not running a skimmer buddy. Take this advice from personal experience. The skimmer will do 100 X more good than harm.

[MrNUFAN666]

I liked miracle mud... I'ts a really good product... I haven't had a protein skimmer and it worked well.

[newyorksteelo]

@MrNUFAN666 I would highly recommend a skimmer.

[MrNUFAN666]

I liked miracle mud... I'ts a really good product...

[newyorksteelo]

@MrNUFAN666 I agree.

[Springs24]

I put a 10lb bag of miracle mud in my TS refugium...it didn't make 1" since my refugium is ~20"x15"

Do u think I should buy 20lbs more?

How many lbs did u use in ur TS sump?

[newyorksteelo]

@Springs24 I would try and make it 1 to 1.5 inches to get the best results. Good luck.

[kaveblack]

I like what you’re doing this is the not bios kinda detailed review we as consumers need to make an educated purchase

[newyorksteelo]

@kaveblack Thanks :)

[gmoney1961]

What's up buddy.....quick question....what type of light do you have on this HOB refugium?

[newyorksteelo]

@gmoney1961 It's the 24 inch 65 Watt Coralife Aqualight fixture with a 67K bulb.

[AquaLifeWarrnambool]

Great video, thanks heaps it's very informative. I have one question, though, if you can help: I am currently setting up an EcoSystem Pro 60 (hang on the back miracle mud filter with skimmer). The directions say that when adding the caulerpa to add just a few strands, and to tie the strands to little rocks and then push the rocks into the mud. Will it be a problem if I had a decent sized clump of caulerpa, and can I just push it under the water rather than tieing down each strand?

[newyorksteelo]

@AquaLifeWarrnambool I would advise against getting this hang on back refugium and instead get the CPR Aquafuge. I have a friend with this HOB unit and hates it. The pump location, and every feature about it is just not that great. As for the Algae, not sure why they would suggest this because most Macro alga's grow so fast, they will literally seed into the bed within a few weeks.

[AquaLifeWarrnambool]

@newyorksteelo thanks for the fast reply. Too late, I already have it and it's set up! The mud has been cycling for a week. I'm now instructed to ad the first fish. Soon it tells me to ad the macro algae and then run the light over it 24-7. That's what I thought, the algae will grow and spread so fast it will take hold itself. I don't mind the features, pump location, etc. So long as this system keeps the water as it should I'll be happy! It's the first time I've used this method so we'll see!

[newyorksteelo]

@AquaLifeWarrnambool Sounds good. Be sure to keep me updated on how it works out for you in the long run. Good luck.

[MrBigregg572]

what miracle mud is better fijim ecosystem etc. or will anyone work

[newyorksteelo]

@MrBigregg572 Ecosystems Miracle Mud will last longer (up to a year), where as Fiji Mud, from previous experience using it back in 2006, exhausted itself in 3 months or so. Good luck.

[alexwilson24]

Hi I still can't find a video of the clean up crew

[newyorksteelo]

@alexwilson24 That video is still in the works and will be released soon :)

[fadifanous]

@newyorksteelo I was wondering if you know what methods to use to add miracle mud to an existing aquarium. I just bought 10 lbs and the bag says to cycle it for a few weeks first. How would you add it to an established tank?

[newyorksteelo]

@fadifanous The established tank should cycle the mud almost instantly. This should have no ill effect n your tank or inhabitants.

[Occamed]

I heard cat litter does the same job, its something to do with protein absorption, and I also heard that cat litter is thixotropic... which means it turns from powder into mud.

Cat litter is really cheap where I live, miracle mud is anything but cheap.

[newyorksteelo]

@Occamed I have never heard of this practice and would assume that using such litter would contaminate a system as opposed to help it. This is just an assumption though :)

[xmazz31x]

@Occamed ghetto setup for the win man I heard the scented ones can poison the system from online but IDK that would be really nice if it works that well.

[charlesavec]

Hi there. I am just about to set up a two foot cube and after seeing your video I want to set up a deep sand bed. My question is this..... I have a lime green wrasse who likes to bury itself at lights out time. Will this digging spoil the deep sand bed.? Your comments would be appreciated. Regards John Ratcliffe

[newyorksteelo]

@charlesavec Already answered you this question on my deep sand bed video :)

[charlesavec]

You sound like a really knowledgable guy. I have only just started reef keeping and your videos are most helpful. Thanks for your help and for sharing your truthful opinions. Malc.

[newyorksteelo]

@charlesavec Thank you for your words of encouragement and for watching my videos. Glad to be of some help :)

[Clearwater2011]

Ok I will do an engine room shot (-) thank you for the kind comments

[newyorksteelo]

@Clearwater2011 Yeah, after all it is miracle mud we are talking about here :)

[barronredneck]

No, I haven't seen your other vids yet. Anyways about the light and mangroves. What I trying to get across is keep your refugium light were it is. Add an addtional light to the system that is time appropriately with your tank. It's cool to see big mangroves growing out side the system. At the same time if a bag of MM works then don't fix it!

[newyorksteelo]

@barronredneck I hear ya, and if I had a sump designed under the tank instead of a hang on the back refugium, I would surely consider the mangroves but in this case, the refugium is attached to the main display and chaetomorpha algae will do just as good a job as the mangrooves.

[barronredneck]

Ok, great vid on MM. Try mangrove plants in your refugium. The plants can grow out of the refugium in between the light hood and tank. You can hang or mount a grow light above the tank system fir the mangroves. If you haven't checked out these plants do so. It's said that as the plants develop your need for a protein skimmer diminishs. Your system setup looks great and this MM vid is intresting.

[newyorksteelo]

@barronredneck Thanks barronredneck, I have actually seen and tested these plants before on other systems. have you seen some my other tank and some of my videos. Lots of info in there on filtration and books. The issue with mangroves is that I light my refugium 24 hours a day and having the lights suspended would mean light penetrating the main display 24 hours a day. this can become an issue. Nevertheless, awesome tip. Be sure to scroll through my other videos. Peace!

[barronredneck]

Test comment

[newyorksteelo]

@barronredneck Looks like your test comment worked lol.

[Clearwater2011]

I have been running a MM system without skimmer since October 2009

40lbs of MM in the sump which is lit 24/7 with 2 T5 white tubes Cheato is the main algae with some grape,I also have a DSB in the display aquarium, this is not recommended,by MM residual PO4 was 0.06 which is too high for SPS, to combat this I add 3ml Vodka each day to support the bacteria and 3 drops of ZeoBak per week I had to resort to Rowa Phos for 0 PO4, 2 months ago I fitted a Ca reactor this improved coral growth

[newyorksteelo]

@Clearwater2011 So in other words you were having phosphate problems without the use of the the skimmer? Do you believe this to be because of the deep sand bed in the main display? Or your feeding habits? Is there massive amounts of macro algae in the refugium and is the refugium fully established? Any chance I can see some videos my friend. Very interesting to hear. Thanks for sharing your experience and for the sub.

[Clearwater2011]

@newyorksteelo No I dont belive the DSB is an issue, when I do a water change the top 1" is cleaned with a gravel cleaner, I was getting a lot of detritus due to heavy feeding and I have 2 tangs and 2 Angels that poo loads. I have a lot of micro algae which is cropped every 3 weeks 4 or 5 big handfuls, sorry I don't have a video

[newyorksteelo]

@Clearwater2011 Try and consider making videos. The main reason I am doing this is to show people first hand if MM can work due to there not being any consumers of this product with videos on YouTube, besides the manufacturer videos. Once again, thanks for the feed back, and if you decide to make some videos of your system, let me know so I can subscribe.

[Clearwater2011]

@newyorksteelo

You can find my tank build thread on the UK forum

The Salty Box

under large tanks and Clearwater, best I can do for now

[newyorksteelo]

@Clearwater2011 Cool, I'll check it out.

[jwalker43081]

i got all my tank settled down bro, all went well corals are again very happy and thriving once again...i do have one question. i have been reading a lot of stuff on introducing mangroves to the refugium and how they can take the place of a protein skimmer in the sense they do exactly want a skimmer does for the water only in a natural way though, what do you think or have you done this before? let me know bro thanks..

[newyorksteelo]

@jwalker43081 Mangroves do remove excess nutrients in a more natural way than how a skimmer removes it, but mangroves cannot remove suspended detritus from the water such as a skimmer can do. I would highly recommend a skimmer even with mangroves.

[undy1984]

hey steelo, thanx so much for making these vids an doing the experiments on the MM. i have been toying with the idea of using it on my upgrade as a few people on my forum swear buy it workin for them on there systems with no skimmer at all!! im finding it really hard to take skimmer from my system so will be following this very closely, love your vids, keep it up

[newyorksteelo]

@undy1984 Thanks, I suggest you wait at least 6 months and if I recommend it after 6 months of experimenting with it, you better believe it works. Thanks again.

[epinkerton108]

Is that the Ricordeas at top left?

[newyorksteelo]

@epinkerton108 Yep.

[epinkerton108]

@newyorksteelo I just got a couple the other day and was thinking about trying the same position.

[newyorksteelo]

@epinkerton108 Ricordias, unlike regular mushrooms, grow in shallow water and require more lighting than regular mushrooms. When they were on my 90 gallon system with the metal halides, I had them at midway point, but now that they are under T5 lighting, I put them up top. It all comes down to what lighting you have and how they respond to the light.

[epinkerton108]

@newyorksteelo Yeah that's exactly what I read in a reference book I have. It's called Aquarium Corals by Eric H. Borneman. The lights I have right now are the Coralife 50/50 power compact bulbs. I think it's like 4 watts per gallon and it's a 10g for now. I also got a couple acans, a favia and some zoanthids.

[newyorksteelo]

@epinkerton108 Sounds like the corals should be OK under 4 watts per gallon of power Compact Fluorescents. Try different placements and see how the corals react. I would start placing them at the bottom and after a few weeks slowly move them up high so as to acclimate them to your new light. If you see they don't bleach and are opening up nicely, your on the right track. That's the best way to tell if they are happy.

[epinkerton108]

@newyorksteelo They've been on the bottom since Thursday so far. The Rics and LPS are doing awesome. They are quick eaters and tentacles were out the first night. They look better and better each day. Not all of the zoos have opened up yet though.

[newyorksteelo]

@epinkerton108 Give it time and see. Zoo's should have been the first to open up as they are the hardiest corals you can find. Only time will tell. Good luck.

[epinkerton108]

@newyorksteelo That's what I thought. One was open during acclimation before I got it into the tank and another one was fully opened today. I have two more that haven't opened much.

[TheOneAndOnlyProdigy]

I don't know, but from viewing the video on youtube it seems like a gimmick. I know how much money you spent on corals and liked the look in your 90 why change that. Are you planning on purchasing new corals for your 90 or leaving it a fish only? Angels can only do so much damage. I think they have a bad rep, that's all.

[newyorksteelo]

@TheOneAndOnlyProdigy this hobby is a never ending learning experience and new technology needs to be tested by us consumers so as to get a unbiased review. We cannot stay stuck in the past or we will never move forward. It was easier to stock the nano full of corals then stocking the 90 gallon tank. Otherwise, I would still be buying corals for the 90 and the nano stays empty. This nano system is perfect for this experiment. I am uploading an update of the mud addition so stay tuned.

[rsyver]

Really looking forward to your analysis. You always do a thorough job! I switched out my protein skimmer before getting a HOB refugium as you had suggested that the CPR skimmer may not be the best way to go. However, I wish I had taken your advice and gotten the AquaC. My LFS recommend the Coralife Super Skimmer and while its A LOT better than what I had, it's been a bit trouble some. Thanks again for your GREAT videos.

[newyorksteelo]

@rsyver Live fish stores are almost always going to recommend what they sell to make a quick buck. This is where the problem lies. I always go based on consumer reviews, never based on the sellers reviews. Thanks for your encouraging words and for watching my videos. Peace.

[datfishguy]

i have been looking at your vids and im about to start a 75 gallon i look at the miracle mud and some others so im happy that you are doing the vid i might try on of the others and then we can compare and see whats the best i might get the brightwell stuff but thanx for the vid your vids have been a great deal of help

thanx ps: im pretty new to the hobby but i have done a lot of research

[newyorksteelo]

@datfishguy Thanks for your words of encouragement and welcome to the hobby. It is good to hear that you do lots of research. This hobby is all about research and no matter how many years we are in this hobby, we never stop learning. Try and see if you can upload videos of your new setup. If you have questions, I am here. Peace.

[TheMark1202]

Good Job Ny dont listen to the negative people they just envy your set up lol.

Id like to see how this studd works to. I also looked on youtube before and found zero on it. I will be following as always.

Keep On Reefing

[newyorksteelo]

@TheMark1202 Thats wassup. Thanks man. We shall both see how well this media works/ Thanks again.

[TheOneAndOnlyProdigy]

Well, newyork if you are doing all these changes and something goes wrong you end up saying it must've been something else when your problem was disturbing the system. Taking things in and out are always a bad thing in a reef tank. I hope you take this crud out! I don't want to see a vid saying, oh no, all my corals are dying!! ;)

[newyorksteelo]

@TheOneAndOnlyProdigy I am no newbie and know exactly what I am doing. This is a month old system in which the refugium is only a week old lol. Also, don't forget i have a 90 gallon system where I can immediately refuge the corals if something goes wrong. lastly, the same way people experimented with live rock and it became the number one filtration, so much that they had to ban collection of it in the states, is the same way new technology needs to be tested and proven effective or ineffective.

[TheOneAndOnlyProdigy]

replacing a skimmer, yeah right, now that's a first. These are false claims, don't waste your time and money. Why change something that has been working for so long? I never seen anyone put MM in there systems because the you have to take it out after a year, talk about a mess! Why would you have to take something out only to replace it later.

[newyorksteelo]

@TheOneAndOnlyProdigy This is where I come in and find out if these claims are true. The skimmer will run for a few hours a day and we shall see how well the system does. It is possible to run a system without a skimmer if you have a large enough refugium. The refugium on my 90g system has slowed down the production of gunk on my EV240 now that the algae is one huge mass of chaeto. But this is not the only claim I want to discover.

[siloex]

dude, you're a scientist lol... i think it'll all be ok personally. If anything, you probably have the ideal system to run this kind of test. Here's my hypothesis; i think it'll run fine for a while but eventually will need an overhauling... Maybe replacement of the mud here and there.

[newyorksteelo]

@siloex I totally agree. This is the prefect small newly set up ideal system to conduct this experiment and to once and for all find out if it truly works. The yearly replacement of this media is expected, but i really want to get to the bottom of their claims.

[TheOneAndOnlyProdigy]

I wouldn't bother with that stuff. Just watch one of their advertising videos and you'll see how big of a joke they are.

[newyorksteelo]

@TheOneAndOnlyProdigy I have seen all the videos and have read extensively on the subject at hand. we shall soon find out and see.

[mofoglenn333]

i dont know about anything with the name "miracle" in it....

[newyorksteelo]

@mofoglenn333 Check out some of Ecosystems Miracle Mud videos on here on YouTube to gain a little more understanding.

[dougnight44]

nice vid.cant wait to see what this brings forth.good luck.

[newyorksteelo]

@dougnight44 Thanks. We shall see.

[sputnik790]

I saw there videos a little while ago, when i was deciding on ether i should go with mud or live sand for the refugium... Honestly i highly doubt it can replace the skimmer, but if it can, i guess it's a break through!

[sputnik790]

Are you going to run a skimmer along with it, or keep it off for the test period?

[newyorksteelo]

@sputnik790 As I stated in the video, I will be running it for a couple of hours a day only. This is what Ecosystems recommends so we will see. The good thing is that I have a perfectly healthy 90g aquarium that if the corals start to suffer I can easily move them to the 90. Check out some of the videos on Ecosystems Miracle Mud in YouTube and you will see why I plan on running it with the skimmer only a few hours a day.

[sputnik790]

What did you do with all that sand from the refugium?

[newyorksteelo]

@sputnik790 Back into the main display it went. I had taken it from the main display originally, causing the 4 inch deep sand bed to become 3 inches only. Now I again have 4 inches in the main display and about 2 inches of mud in the refugium.

[sputnik790]

Man, that's a lot of work... You not even sure if it's gonna work...... You got some b@lls :))))) Good luck man!!!

[newyorksteelo]

@sputnik790 I took the day off just to do it lol, and I just finished. I should put up the next video sometime tomorrow or the day after. Wasn't too much work though. I was done in an hour and half. Tomorrow I will turn on the refugium and feed the refugium water to the main display. Let's see how the corals react.

[sputnik790]

@newyorksteelo Can't wait :) On stand by!!!

[sputnik790]

@newyorksteelo I meant that you did all that work with that refugium, and now you have to basically ruin that mature establishment so you can try different routs... Respect!!!

[newyorksteelo]

@sputnik790 I hear you. Thanks.

[ReefAdvicer]

you are a very serouse man about these claims hope it works out well

[newyorksteelo]

@ReefAdvicer I hope so too.

[ryjack26]

man they are claimin' a lot of stuff about this product, looking forward to how it works

[newyorksteelo]

@ryjack26 They sure do and I find it hard to believe some of these claims. We shall wait and see.

[vanhalenman60]

hey first comment

[newyorksteelo]

@vanhalenman60 Yep lol, thanks for the feedback I guess lol.

[Clearwater2011]

@newyorksteelo have a look at my tank uploaded a video now 12 months of MM

@clearwater2011

[newyorksteelo]

@Clearwater2011 I just did. An awesome looking tank and a beautiful rose anemone indeed. But I wanted to see not only the tank, but the filtration below with the miracle mud. Very nice tank man!