It´s not the same game, Graf never could win to Serena in this time (compare the Graf playing there and Serena playing now) The tennis 20 years ago it´s was so different that the tennis today. Serena won here and it was not the the strong Serena that she is today. I can see in this video that Graf won the 2 set for the errors of Serena and she falls short vs the blows of Serena.
@theirland You really cannot compare because Serena was at the start of her career and Graf at the end. If you could magically subtract years off of Graf and have her playing todays came you could imagine she would have been able to adapt to the strengh of todays game.
@aquaboy71 Those are good rankings if we are talking about best clay courters of all time. Overall, not even close. Especialy ranking Navratilova 3 spots behind Evert, not a chance. Chris is a great champion, but once Martina got fit she proved beyond a shadow of doubt who the better player was.
I don't believe anyone can be labelled 'the best tennis player ever' because the game has changed many times over the years and been influenced the the top players of each era. It's certainly correct to say both Serena and Steffi are great players of their respective eras but you shouldn't compare the two. A true tennis fan would appreciate the qualities in numerous players and not allow favouritism to dictate their opinions.
No player but queen Serena can completely overpower players like Graf and Davenport to the extent Serena has. She has played sets with those women were they had 0 winners.
Queen Serena shows in this clip she is the best ever. At 17 and nowhere near her prime she totally overpowers Graf who had been considered the best ever before Serena, starting a dominance of the game which would last 13 years and counting. Serena is just too powerful and athletic for all others in history.
Why doesnt the video starter ban this MissThingSings retard loser already. This is a video for Serena fans, not some no life obsessive loser posting 300 times a day about their obsession with Graf and Seles.
@serenakicksass Your username proves that you have no class, and your words prove you can't read or count. I am a Serena fan and I started posting here defending Serena from the vicious racist comments that were being made about her...IF somebody in your household actually can read, send them back and look the posts up for you. Interesting that you, a so called Serena fan, would like me banned, but said nothing about the posters who made the racist remarks. You are as dumb as a skillet.
@serenakicksass While I am at it, it's really classless to use the word "retard" so casually. For a lot of people mental illness is no joke...both Venus and Serena have spoken out on this matter, so it is inexcusable for one of their fans to be so ignorant and unsympathetic. I don't expect a person like you to understand this...and people like you typically don't care. But one day when you are an adult you will be grateful for the way I have educated you. Get some sense before you post, BOY.
@serenakicksass I'm so sick of going around YouTube and seeing your pointless Serena comments. You said "Serena showed the talentless breastless midget who is boss." On a Serena vs Henin video. It seems like you are the no life loser posting 3oo comments a day with your obsession with Serena. You also love to pick fights with people on videos. Just putting it out there
@gameblack86 Henin is a talentless cheat with no breasts. What is your point. Her lack of talent was displayed in her inability to win Wimbledon which the true Queens of tennis like Serena, Graf, Venus, and Navratilova all did many times. Likewise the overrated Seles also failed to win Wimbledon like her superiors did, but atleast she doesnt have herpes, rotting teeth, and an ex gay golddigging husband like Henin.
This match almost proves that Graf is the best ever. Lets see seles compete with a young serena. Gtaf was 29 here . Her athletism sets her apart from some of the other grand slam winners in the 80's and 90's. If she was 25 today she would be competitive. Seles , aranxta, pam shriver- NOT
@lword1970 Monica had no problem competing until one of Steffi's sick fans did with a knife what Steffi wasn't talented enough to do with her racket. It's very easy to boast about all of the things Steffi could do...she never endured the slight distraction of having a knife plunged into her back, did she? It's also pretty arrogant and insensitive of you to suggest that Monica had plenty of time to recover. How many times have you been stabbed????
By the way, wonder if holf/grafgirl etc knows/know that Graf, upon retirement, was asked who was the greatest and she said Navratilova, no ifs, no buts. :P
@CrimsonKing589051 You are absolutely correct...Steffi did proclaim Martina as the best ever, as Billie Jean called Martina the best all-around player in history. Bud Collins knows as much about women's tennis as anyone, and he not only calls Martina the best ever, but he clarified his remark by adding that he believed Monica Seles was on her way to becoming the best ever =)
@CrimsonKing589051 Let's just say that Grafgirl, Mead, Hoffy and a few others have MUCH more in common than a lack of intelligence and an unhealthy obsession with Steffi Graf =)
@CrimsonKing589051 He has a half dozen other names: Meade,GrafGirl, Maolseachlainn,QuietLittleToto, something with "Homo" in it (no surprise there). He also seems to stalk youtube and cancel as "spam" anything he doesn't agree with, like all the above comments of MissThingSings and most of yours.Surreal is no the word. I'm sure there are shrinks out there who would pay him for the sessions.He's also extremely vicious and aggressive w. what he writes. A real turn-off.
@assindiastignani Funny part is I am a Graf fan but this guy doesn't want just an inch, he wants a thousand miles for his beloved goddess. And very funny how obsessively he tracks down 'anti-Graf' comments on youtube. Wonder that it doesn't drive him crazy. Oh, wait a sec...! :0
@CrimsonKing589051 That's it.I loved watching Graf play - the footwork alone was poetry in motion - but sicko's like this one almost make you dislike her. It's like you say, for this guy, only Graf exists, and nobody else is allowed to count for anything. Why do you suppose she attract all these crazies as fans?!. BTW - did you see, someone cancelled your last comment as spam. It would be funny, but it's just soooo sick.
lol, didn't notice that! What should I say, spam or not is in the eyes of the beholder! :P As for why...I guess any popular figure and esp somebody who has achieved something remarkable (her calendar slam) attracts a following that sometimes becomes fanatical.
@assindiastignani He really is vicious and quite disturbed IMO. I've told him before that if Steffi had as many slam titles as he has personalities, even I would call her the greatest player in history!
Serena and Seles fans need a reality check. As well as Court haters. These are the all time rankings:
1-3: Graf, Navratilova, Court in some order
4. Evert
5-7. Connolly, Lenglen, Wills, in some order
8. King
9. Serena
10. Seles
Serena and Seles are at the BOTTOM of the top 10. That is where all experts (and no John Worthless is not one) puts them. Only in your little fantasy Worlds are they anywhere near being GOAT contenders. Deal with it.
@grafgirl27 Evert, King, Court and Navratilova won their slam titles while their chief rivals were in the game. Steffi won ONE HALF of her slam titles AFTER the most dominant player in the game was stabbed and removed from the game. Despite this TREMENDOUS advantage, she still could not match Court's singles slam title count, Evert won 50 more singles titles than Steffi did, and Navratilova won 60 more singles titles than Graf did. And Steffi's best ever? ROFLMAO! It's not even close!
@grafgirl27 What experts? Graf had 23 grand slams in total, including doubles and singles...Serena has 27 and counting. Graf was a great player in a time when the competition was weak after, especially her countrymen stabbed Seles in her back.
Other experts say that serena is the greatest of all times and others have her higher on the list than your little list...lmao. Anyone can pull a list out of their ass, doesn't mean it's the definitive list of all times.
@twarren20 Very funny, name me a single expert who rates Serena greatest ever (and no a fool like Jon Wertheim does not count). Then rating a doubles slam, even mixed doubles on exact par with a singles slam, haha. Lastly the competion element, Serena is the queen of weak competition, lording in the era Wozniacki, Safina, Jankovic, and Ivanovic all became #1. Thanks for the laughs deluded Serena fanboy.
@grafgirl27 HAHAH..."name an expert besides the ones I don't like" is basically what you're saying. There are also players currently playing who call her the greatest player ever like Clijsters...which is a greater honor. Serena was the queen of competition with Venus, Davenport, Seles, Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, and other greats besides the lames you named...do try again. Graf had the weakest competition of all time and she prob paid her countrymen to stab Seles...sure she did...LMAO
@grafgirl27 I'd put them after Evert because they played on all 4 different courts. Not just grass and clay. Serena is really not done so she does have a chance to move.
The fact that the few Graf haters and ardent fans of Navratilova, Serena, and Seles have to team up to gang up against Graf in nearly every thread is just more proof that she is the best ever. Contrary to the claims of the bitter loser fans of these players (I dont mean all the fans of these players are such, just the morons like the ones posting her) Graf fans dont even argue her as the best ever much. They dont have to, pretty much every historian rates her as such.
@grafgirl27 Tell me who all these experts are who rate Graf as GOAT. I know of Steve Fink, who else? Names please.
For Martina, I'll give you Bud Collins, Billie Jean King, Tennis Magazine (their panel of experts rated Navratilova as top female player of the last 40 years in 2005, ahead of Graf) and Tennis Week which did a statistical analysis in 2007 that showed Martina to be the most dominant player of all time, just ahead of Court and Graf.
@grafgirl27 - Why do you Graf fans have to act so snobby all the fricking time? You're just like Steffi, stuck up and just a big pain in the ass. The only thing I ever liked about Graf was that she retired quietly and didn't make a big scene... It has to be said, Steffi was THE most boring women's tennis player ever.... It'd be great if one day we didn't have to go through such stupid fighting on here everyday.
@grafgirl27 I'm a huge graf fan . she is the reason i became a tennis fan . Later I became a huge Serena fan. Numbers cant be argued . Graf is still my favorite of all time. Way better than Seles however I have common sense - graf was and is a great athlete but tennis has changed. She unlike other past stars would have been comptitive with todays group of top players. But I'm not sure prime for prime that she would have beaten Serena. strictly on tenni skill I give Serena and edge.
@grafgirl27 - If someone had stabbed Chris Evert in the middle of her rivalry with Martina maybe I would agree that Graf is better... Martina accomplished more given the competition and technology of her time.
@grafgirl27 Only Graf fans who are afraid of facts would rather rely on flimsy opinion polls to determine who the greatest player of all-time is. That's what record books are for. The record for? most slam titles is held by someone other that Steffi Graf. The record for most singles titles is held by someone other than Steffi Graf. The record for most slams in singles, doubles and mixed is held by someone other than Steffi Graf. There is absolutely no way that Steffi is greatest ever. No way!
@grafgirl27 Again, HALF? of Steffi's slam titles were won AFTER the most dominant player in tennis was viciously attacked and removed from the game. Martina won more than Steffi in singles, doubles and mixed while competing against an 18 singles slam winning legend for nearly two decades!!! And Steffi's better? ROFL! Steffi is not part of the GOAT discussion because of what she accomplished with her racket, she's part of it because of what Parche accomplished with a knife.
@grafgirl27 Hoffy dear, It makes perfect sense that you have no respect for me...I am a tax paying citizen, never cheated on court, my mother would never have stood by and allowed anyone to teach me illegal hand signals, and my father? is not an ex-con with a penchant for models half my mothers age and ten times as beautiful. No doubt about it, Steffi is MUCH more your type!
@grafgirl27 Even if you were educated enough to understand the impact? that a vicious attack has on the life of a young woman it wouldn't matter. I think the only thing about the stabbing that disturbed you is that you didn't have the satisfaction of plunging the knife in personally...
@grafgirl27 Evert, King, Court and Navratilova won their slam titles while their chief rivals were in the game. Steffi won ONE HALF of her slam titles AFTER the most dominant player in the game was stabbed and removed from the game. Despite this TREMENDOUS advantage, she still could not match Court's singles slam title count, Evert won 50 more? singles titles than Steffi did, and Navratilova won 60 more singles titles than Graf did. And Steffi's best ever? ROFLMAO! It's not even close!
@grafgirl27 Hoffy, I said Serena at her best would crush Steffi at her best...Serena is faster, more powerful, more athletic, superior all around game, superior backhand, superior serve, superior volley, superior return...Steffi would not stand a chance.
@grafgirl27 AKA Hoffenheim, Mead, Pox, etc... Interesting that you have such harsh words for people who oppose your delusional views, yet you praise a person who cheated on court and signed fraudulent tax returns. Being nasty to fans of Seles and Serena won't change facts, Hoffy...Steffi does NOT have the most slam titles, Steffi does NOT have the most singles titles, and 50%of Steffi's slam titles were earned AFTER a DOMINANT Monica Seles was stabbed..NO WAY is Steffi best ever and you know it!
@grafgirl27 It is BS that pretty much every historian rates Graf as best ever. Bud Collins knows as much about Women's tennis as anyone...according to Bud the greatest player in history is Martina Navratilova. Bud added one little disclaimer to his opinion..he stated that Monica Seles was on her way to being the greatest ever until she was stabbed...Monica didn't need Steffi out of the game to dominate the slams..she was racking them up while Steffi was competing, which makes her superior...
@grafgirl27 Graf fans don't even argue her as the best ever but yet you're on her trolling harder than a crack addict who just learned that crack is not being made any longer...HILARIOUS...if you didn't have anything to prove you wouldn't be on her fighting like Xena warrior princess...LOL
@twarren20 "Graf fans dont even argue her as the best ever." hahaha, you are officaly a crackhead, probably that MissSingThings loser under her 100th name on here. What you meant to say "even many non Graf fans believe she is the best ever and ONLY the most delusional Serena fans such as idiots like Serenakicksass and twarren argue her as best ever." Even comparing Serena to Graf in historical terms, you Serenatards and your fantasy World, so cute.
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@grafgirl27 LOL and you just spelled "officially" like a crackhead. At the end of the day Serena has 27 Grands Slams in counting and Graf has only 23. Doubles definitely count because that means that you had to be even better shape to focus on both or all three tourneys. Please, I can't wait until the investigations shows that Graf's camp paid the German guy to stab the competition (Seles)...oh wasn't she under investigation for tax evasion? Well, wouldn't put anything past her dishonest ass...
@grafgirl27 I'm doing an excellent job of exposing you for being the idiot you are under this username...why on earth would I need another one? You've been exposed for having multiple usernames and so you are trying to divert attention away from yourself...and you don't know who is or isn't a crackhead so why don't you stick to facts. It is a FACT that Steffi signed fraudulent tax returns. It is a FACT that she was penalized for illegal hand signals. It is a FACT that her father is an ex-con!!!
@grafgirl27 John Wertheim of Sports Illustrated has called Serena the best ever. You might not agree, but it is not true to say that only fans of Serena would say so. The article is online, as are articles documenting how Steffi was penalized for receiving illegal hand signals. Google it =) Serena does not yet have the record, but at her best she is MUCH better than Steffi ever was. Better serve, backhand, volley, speed, power, return, athleticism, accountant, parents, morals, etc... ROFLMAO!!!
@grafgirl27 so ur saying that sabine,petkovic,henin,clijster and navratilova are retards???saying that serena is the best tennis player of all time...Martina Navratilova said that she puts serena in her top 5 best female tennis player of all history and im kinda curious why she didnt mention steffi's name notably(Serena,Henin,Evert,king and herself) and she said that being the best player doesn't mean that u have to win as many titles as u can but its the game that u can produce.
Steffi probably could've played a few more years and contended for majors on her champion's mentality alone. But that backhand would've become more and more of a liability the longer she played the hingis-williams-kournikova generation.
As for after the stabbing, all it showed was Seles could not cope well with the new age of power players who hit harder than her. Graf was older and further past her prime than Seles by the late 90s but still was able to compete with and beat Hingis, Venus, Davenport, Serena, which Seles couldnt. An old warped 30 year old Graf with a 38 year old body after al the surgeries being more competitive than a mid 20s Seles only reinforced who the better player is (not that it wasnt already obvious).
@russianskatingfan After all these years it is just amazing that Graf fans are still taking a stab at Monica Seles. Everyone knows that Steffi won more lams than Monica. And everyone knows that one half of Steffi's slams were won after Gunther Parche did with a knife what Steffi wasn't talented enough to do with her racket. More than her titles, I'm most impressed with Monica's integrity...she never cheated on court or on taxes. She was a class act...just like her parents.
@russianskatingfan At one point Monica Seles had won 7 slams to Steffi's 11 with 20 FEWER slam appearances. So I agree that it was quite obvious who the better player was...it certainly was obvious to Steffi's #1 fan, Gunther Parche.
Also most of these "experts" (and most dont even say Serena plays at the highest level ever, only a select few, and that was only in 02-03 which surprisingly lasted only 18 months so these few would probably take it back now) who say Serena at her best plays at the highest level ever are commentators or people desperately trying to promote todays struggling womens game. Once Serena retires I bet nobody will say this, but some will be saying it about Kvitova which is even more ridiculous.
Seles was also not the first women powerful off both forehand and backhand. Chris Evert, Margaret Court, Hana Mandlikova, Nancy Richey, are some examples of others who played many years earlier very powerful off both sides. Going back even further Helen Wills Moody and Maureen Connolly.
@russianskatingfan Anyone who calls Chris Evert a power player doesn't know squat about tennis. On a hardcourt vs. a big hitter she could match power, but she didn't initiate it like Monica did. Margaret Court chipped her backhand most of the time...absolutely no comparison to Seles. Seles was the first player who could hurt her opponents with power from both wings.
@MissThingSings You are the one who knows squat about tennis, although your various ignorant posts on this thread already show that. Evert was considered the hardest hitting baseliner of her era. Renee Richards one of the most respected coaches and wisest tennis minds at the time said "Chris hit bullets and dont let anyone tell you otherwise."
Hoffenheim will NEVER admit that Steffi's backhand was lucky to arrive in the game when it did.
Her forehand for sure is the reason she has so many slams....it was great enough to protect her backhand side in a game where all her competitors couldn't hit a shot above 40 mph (I know it's an exaggeration but it's still not far from the truth)
Put that backhand in today's game, and she'd be toast....ADMIT IT HOFFENHEIM!!!!!!!!
@Hoffenheim08 Evert and Navratilova were far superior to Graf...they racked up nearly as many slam titles while competing against their chief rival for their ENTIRE careers! Imagine how many more slams either would have won with the other absent (well, I know you won't go there because the truth hurts lol)...not only that, but Martina also racked up doubles and mixed doubles slam titles along the way. And Steffi is better? ROFLMAO!!!!!
Evert won 12 of her 18 slams until Wimbledon 1981. At that point Navi had won just 2 slams. Navi won her first slam in 1978 when Evert had already won 7 slams. Navi started to win slams big-time only when Evert was in her late 20s / early 30s.
And when Shriver, Turnbull types were top-5 for many years.
Yes, Steffi would have shaken in her boots with a "competition" like this ...
@Hoffenheim08 Yes i do. Let's be honest Graf's backhand is worth sh*t nowadays. And who would hit those backhands like Serena in those days? (maybe apart from Hingis, even tough they lacked power). AND SAY WHAT?!? ONLY 78.6%. SHE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HERSELF!! and still win RG?? where is the sanity in that?? unless maybe, just maybe.. she was good?? She retired when she was what nr3 in the world?? Henin retired when she was nr1. Clijsters will surely retire this year. that doesn't mean anything
Steffi was good in 1999. But she was not great anymore. She lost to many journeywomen in 1998/99 because her knee wasn't cooperating fully anymore.
1987-96 were her best years, she had an annual winning percentage of at least 89 % in those years.
Still she was good enough in 1999 to overtake Venus and Serena in the rankings in the last months of her career. Venus, who had one of her best seasons ever in that year (won 6 titles, same as in 2000 & 2001).
@Hoffenheim08 OH HERE YOU GO AGAIN!.....Venus would trade those 6 titles in 1999 for one GS...BAD YEAR by her standards.
And you refuse to admit that Graf (despite being less physically) was one of the best players of 1999...definitely top 5...she retired THEN because she knew what would happen to her had she stuck around a few more years...she probably would have collected another slam or two, but she didn't want the losses that were going to come with it.
1999 was clearly one of Venus' four best years ever.
Steffi had severe injury problems in her last years. And she wanted to marry and have kids - in contrast to all those (mostly gay) US female tennis stars (King, Evert, Navratilova, Seles, Williams sisters). Nothing wrong with that.
@Hoffenheim08 one of her best years in title wins....that does not equate a good or great year, for if it did, people wouldn't be all over Wozniacki right now.....get over yourself!...you've been using this SAME FUCKING USELESS fact about Venus' 1999 for YEARS!
and it's honestly pathetic....as I said before, 6 WTA titles do not equate to a GS, and who cares if she had injuries...she wasn't losing!...still in GS conversation...it just shows her closeted inner brat even more.
@beavertown2006 You are certainly entitled to your opinion that Serena is unattractive, but you should know that some people may be compelled to point out the fact that Steffi never won any beauty contests either. As far as Serena being ugly on the inside, Graf fans need to be careful about being judgmental...Steffi not only cheated on the court (she was caught receiving hand signals from her father multiple times), but there was that little issue with tax evasion. Just saying...
Steffi was voted most beautiful female player by tennis fans at the FO 95, Sabatini was 2nd. Becker admitted in a Playboy interview "“Every tennis player in our generation liked Steffi Graf: great woman, great body, sexy, always winning. Everyone in the locker room found Steffi hot.” Steffi never cheated on the court, and never cheated with taxes (her dad did).
So compare Steffi with a person like S. Williams is insulting. Why this raging hate?
@Hoffenheim08 Steffi Graf was complimented for her figure...NOBODY ever called her beautiful unless their last name was Graf or Agassi....or perhaps her #1 fan, Gunter Parche. You are delusional lol
“Every tennis player in our generation liked Steffi Graf: great woman, great body, sexy, always winning. Everyone in the locker room found Steffi hot.”
@Hoffenheim08 Again, where did Boris Becker (or anyone) say Steffi was beautiful? Post a source that specifically refers to Steffi from the chin up...
@Hoffenheim08 I don't know if you are a liar or just plain ignorant...probably both. However, it is not my opinion that Steffi cheated on court it is a FACT. She was penalized multiple times for receiving hand signals and verbal coaching (in German) from her father. That is cheating, dear...and it is very well documented in articles so only an idiot would argue...
@Hoffenheim08 Yes, receiving is cheating, idiot...let me help you understand. You know how a catcher gives signals to a pitcher? In order for that little scenario to work the catcher and the pitcher have to rehearse...otherwise the pitcher won't know what the signals mean. You may be too ignorant to understand, but the WTA understood and that is why Steffi was penalized...because she cheated!
@Hoffenheim08 The same justice system that allowed Gunter Parche to stab another human being without being punished is the same justice system that allowed Steffi Graf to remai jail-free for tax evasion. The fact is that Steffi avoided jail only by playing dumb and testifying against her father. The taxes that were not paid were HERS, not her fathers...therefore SHE was responsible. Hysterical that you only admire Steffi when you pretend she is something that she's not! LOLOL!
@Hoffenheim08 I'm sure you heard your mother refer to your absentee father as a bitch, so I am not surprised that you would use that word out of anger and frustration...I feel for you =(
@Hoffenheim08 In Germany, just like every other country in the world with tax laws, your signature on your tax forms means that the information contained within is accurate. Steffi signed the documents..they were HER taxes!!!
@atiboy1 Steffi's all time career slam mark is inflated just as anyone's would be if their path was cleared by the stabbing of their chief rival...at a time when their chief rival was dominating (even Andre Agassi said so.)
I would imagine that best form Serena will beat Graf only if they play on slow and high bounce playing conditions like today. Otherwise back on fast grass court (pre 2002 era), I say Graf would beat Serena because of her mobility, endurance and rock solid mentality. People seem to forget that younger Graf used to run much faster and hit much harder than what is shown in this video. And her slice would have worked much better on faster courts.
Martina Navratilova once said that it's not about how many Slams or trophies won but about a player's form and talent in tennis. The debate about the woman's bets tennis player can be endless but Navratilova ranks Serena among the top-5 best of all times. Navratilova further said "...it would have been interested to play Serena but I'm glad I didn't have to..".
One thing for sure - Serena will beat Graf if both players face eachother in their best forms.
@rjgib1016 Serena isn't liked for her "personality and classlessness" in a sport that has made hero's and legends out of John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors??? You cannot be serious! I make no excuses for Serena's outbursts, especially the one at the last US Open...it was shameful, embarrassing and inexcusable. That said, the tennis world would be much more forgiving if she had the same complexion as John and Jimmy, two people who did much worse, more often.
@rjgib1016 Actually, what is typical is people like you who make bold and unfounded statements that you can't support with facts. I demonstrated that this sport has embraced others with bad personalities and classlessness, so your theory as to why people dislike Serena so much doesn't make sense. I am not defending her actions...they don't deserve to be defended. However, it's foolish to deny the double standard...Connors and McEnroe were far worse, more often...yet beloved. Wonder why...
Serena had to play her heart out to beat a retiring champion who was the greatest of all time and had a winning edge over Serena. How people can say Serena is best of all time is laughable, she only has half the GS titles of the other greats, has a laughable record outside the GS's...... some people need a reality check
@jigsterify Serena was just an 18 year old upstart, for Christ's sake. She was no where near to realising her full potential. At their peaks, Serena would blow Steffi off the court.
@hiu1787 well the point is exactly when WAS she at her peak, she may have blown Steffi off the court on one of her best days (tho I still think it would be very close) but she is so inconsistent (especially outside slams) that she wouldnt even be worthy of polishing Steffis boots. Sam Stosur trashed Serena in US open final. Steffi is best of all time, Serena is a part time champion, deal with it
@jigsterify Agreed, Serena (and Venus) were very inconsistent outside of the majors. If I could nail down a period where Serena was at her peak I would say 2002-03, before the multitude of injuries and the death of her older sister. Serena was unbeatable during that streak. This Serena would've easily dominated Graf at her peak. There is really no contest there.
@Hoffenheim08 Look, how many GS did she lose during that period? ONE - to a cheating Henin. It is well known that Serena and Venus' results lack outside of the majors, so its not uncustomary for them to lose at smaller events, but for the big ones, the majors they show up, especially Serena. I'm sure she'd take a loss to Rubin in Los Angeles if she could wind up winning the US Open. I think that's the one people will remember most
@Hoffenheim08 Steffi Graf won half of her grand slams titles AFTER her chief rival was viciously attacked and removed from the game at the height of her domination...Steffi's record is impressive, but it is so inflated it would qualify as a float in the the Thanksgiving day parade!
Seles was removed for a few months. After that it was her free choice.
Seles profited far more from the Graf family blackmail scandal in 1990/92 than Steffi profited from Seles being out for more than 2 years because of her dad dying from cancer.
@Hoffenheim08 It was a Graf fan who plunged a knife into the back of Monica Seles, so I am not surprised that a Graf fan would think a young woman should recover from an attempt on her life in "a few months"...after all, Steffi didn't have enough integrity or compassion to drop out of the very tournament in which Monica was stabbed to clear the path for her...so...
And why should Steffi drop out of the tournament? People had bought tickets, dummy. And it was only a small stab wound. Everybody thought, phew, Seles was lucky and will return to the game within weeks. Who would have guessed that she wouldn't feel able to compete for more than two (!) years???
@Hoffenheim08 I don't expect a person like you to get it, just like Steffi didn't get it. With her cheating on the court, and that little problem with tax evasion, Steffi's lack of integrity didn't come as a surprise...
@Hoffenheim08 Monica Seles was dominating the slams until she was stabbed...she dominated in a way that Steffi had not. What Steffi could not do with her racket, one of her nutso fans did with a knife. I can't imagine anyone being so cold and heartless as to state that any part of Monica's absence was her "free choice"..unless their last name is Graf or Parche.
@hiu1787 I think it would be a good match, but I absolutely agree that Serena would blow Steffi off the court. Serena had more weapons than anyone Steffi ever faced...as great a player as Steffi was, her record is highly inflated because her chief rival was stabbed and removed from the sport just as she started to dominate. No way Steffi would have racked up all those titles with Monica in the game, and Serena had more weapons than Monica did!
@MissThingSings I agree, although Steffi was arguably a great player and that goes without saying, her record would not have been what it is if Monica was able to play at the same dominant levels she was at during 91-93. Monica was absolutely dominant during that period.
@hiu1787 Absolutely..Monica Seles owned tennis and certainly would have continued to dominate for years, barring injury. Monica came back a mere shadow of her former self, both physically and mentally, and still managed to win titles and reach major finals...so there is absolutely no doubt that she would have continued to dominate for years. Steffi lacked integrity IMO, but she was a great player...not as great as Monica in her prime, and certainly not as great as Serena.
@jigsterify Sam Stosur is much more talented than Amanda Coetzer ever was, and we all know what Amanda used to do to Steffi lol! Steffi was a great player, but half of her slam titles were won after her chief rival was stabbed and removed from the sport...even Agassi said how much easier it was for Steffi with Seles out. Monica was dominating the slams in a way that Steffi never did, and Serena Williams has more weapons than Monica ever did. She would have pummeled Steffi...
@MissThingSings with all due respect you may think Serena would have "pumelled" Steffi and that is your opinion, but I think its a load of rubbish. Steffi was the greatest female player in history, and a champion is a champion no matter what era. Serena has shown time again she doesn't have the consistency to be an all time great. Sure she has sudden bursts here and there but Steffi would by far beat her most times. And what competition has Serena had? Wozniacki?
@Hoffenheim08 The fat black chick doesn't need her father to illegally coach her during matches...the fat black chick doesn't have a mother who would sit silently while her father taught her to cheat by using illegal hand sigals...the fat black chick doesn't have an ex con for a father...I'll just stop right there ROFLMAO!!!!!
@Hoffenheim08 I don't expect a person like you to be able to express yourself without name calling or foul language...I don't blame you, I blame your mother. If she's ever able to figure out who your father is perhaps he'll have an impact. It's never too late and I'm rooting for you!
@Hoffenheim08 They probably committed suicide...having such a classless piece of trash for a child would be difficult for anyone to accept. Did your mother ever figure out who your real father is?
@Hoffenheim08 Apparetly Steffi needed her father to coach her during matches because that is absolutely what he did. They got caught (ON NATIONAL TELEVISION!) and she was penalized. She has ZERO class or integrity IMO!
@Hoffenheim08 Sweetheart, my ethnicity has nothing to do with it...I don't root for or against players on the basis of race. Your parents were ignorant and lacked class, which is why you are such a failure. It's not your fault that they were such trash...I am truly sympathetic =(
The better player won the match !!! Go Serena!!! Who the hell is Graft?
01230123s 6 days ago
It´s not the same game, Graf never could win to Serena in this time (compare the Graf playing there and Serena playing now) The tennis 20 years ago it´s was so different that the tennis today. Serena won here and it was not the the strong Serena that she is today. I can see in this video that Graf won the 2 set for the errors of Serena and she falls short vs the blows of Serena.
theirland 6 days ago
@theirland You really cannot compare because Serena was at the start of her career and Graf at the end. If you could magically subtract years off of Graf and have her playing todays came you could imagine she would have been able to adapt to the strengh of todays game.
jjmaze 6 days ago
Not since Monica Seles was Steffi manhandled like this. Changing of guards. Gracious of Steffi to kiss Serena though.
trent8002003 1 week ago
1. Evert
2-3. Seles/Graf
4. Navratilova
5+ Who cares
aquaboy71 1 week ago
@aquaboy71 Those are good rankings if we are talking about best clay courters of all time. Overall, not even close. Especialy ranking Navratilova 3 spots behind Evert, not a chance. Chris is a great champion, but once Martina got fit she proved beyond a shadow of doubt who the better player was.
hairbrush81 1 week ago
I love watching these two play :) it's INTENSE!!
QueenRikku 2 weeks ago 6
I don't believe anyone can be labelled 'the best tennis player ever' because the game has changed many times over the years and been influenced the the top players of each era. It's certainly correct to say both Serena and Steffi are great players of their respective eras but you shouldn't compare the two. A true tennis fan would appreciate the qualities in numerous players and not allow favouritism to dictate their opinions.
skriker04 2 weeks ago 10
No player but queen Serena can completely overpower players like Graf and Davenport to the extent Serena has. She has played sets with those women were they had 0 winners.
serenakicksass 1 month ago 2
Queen Serena shows in this clip she is the best ever. At 17 and nowhere near her prime she totally overpowers Graf who had been considered the best ever before Serena, starting a dominance of the game which would last 13 years and counting. Serena is just too powerful and athletic for all others in history.
serenakicksass 1 month ago
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Hahahaha.... Graf lost... :))
starside7 1 month ago
Why doesnt the video starter ban this MissThingSings retard loser already. This is a video for Serena fans, not some no life obsessive loser posting 300 times a day about their obsession with Graf and Seles.
serenakicksass 1 month ago 34
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@serenakicksass Your username proves that you have no class, and your words prove you can't read or count. I am a Serena fan and I started posting here defending Serena from the vicious racist comments that were being made about her...IF somebody in your household actually can read, send them back and look the posts up for you. Interesting that you, a so called Serena fan, would like me banned, but said nothing about the posters who made the racist remarks. You are as dumb as a skillet.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@serenakicksass While I am at it, it's really classless to use the word "retard" so casually. For a lot of people mental illness is no joke...both Venus and Serena have spoken out on this matter, so it is inexcusable for one of their fans to be so ignorant and unsympathetic. I don't expect a person like you to understand this...and people like you typically don't care. But one day when you are an adult you will be grateful for the way I have educated you. Get some sense before you post, BOY.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
@serenakicksass I'm so sick of going around YouTube and seeing your pointless Serena comments. You said "Serena showed the talentless breastless midget who is boss." On a Serena vs Henin video. It seems like you are the no life loser posting 3oo comments a day with your obsession with Serena. You also love to pick fights with people on videos. Just putting it out there
gameblack86 1 week ago 3
@gameblack86 Henin is a talentless cheat with no breasts. What is your point. Her lack of talent was displayed in her inability to win Wimbledon which the true Queens of tennis like Serena, Graf, Venus, and Navratilova all did many times. Likewise the overrated Seles also failed to win Wimbledon like her superiors did, but atleast she doesnt have herpes, rotting teeth, and an ex gay golddigging husband like Henin.
serenakicksass 3 days ago
@serenakicksass So cruel.
gameblack86 2 days ago
Sad to see indian wells crowd have such a huge problem with a 17 year old who was american by the way. sad .
lword1970 1 month ago 14
This match almost proves that Graf is the best ever. Lets see seles compete with a young serena. Gtaf was 29 here . Her athletism sets her apart from some of the other grand slam winners in the 80's and 90's. If she was 25 today she would be competitive. Seles , aranxta, pam shriver- NOT
lword1970 1 month ago 9
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@lword1970 Monica had no problem competing until one of Steffi's sick fans did with a knife what Steffi wasn't talented enough to do with her racket. It's very easy to boast about all of the things Steffi could do...she never endured the slight distraction of having a knife plunged into her back, did she? It's also pretty arrogant and insensitive of you to suggest that Monica had plenty of time to recover. How many times have you been stabbed????
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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By the way, wonder if holf/grafgirl etc knows/know that Graf, upon retirement, was asked who was the greatest and she said Navratilova, no ifs, no buts. :P
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
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@CrimsonKing589051 You are absolutely correct...Steffi did proclaim Martina as the best ever, as Billie Jean called Martina the best all-around player in history. Bud Collins knows as much about women's tennis as anyone, and he not only calls Martina the best ever, but he clarified his remark by adding that he believed Monica Seles was on her way to becoming the best ever =)
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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grafgirl is also Hoffy's account? That is surreal.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
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@CrimsonKing589051 Let's just say that Grafgirl, Mead, Hoffy and a few others have MUCH more in common than a lack of intelligence and an unhealthy obsession with Steffi Graf =)
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@CrimsonKing589051 He has a half dozen other names: Meade,GrafGirl, Maolseachlainn,QuietLittleToto, something with "Homo" in it (no surprise there). He also seems to stalk youtube and cancel as "spam" anything he doesn't agree with, like all the above comments of MissThingSings and most of yours.Surreal is no the word. I'm sure there are shrinks out there who would pay him for the sessions.He's also extremely vicious and aggressive w. what he writes. A real turn-off.
assindiastignani 1 month ago
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@assindiastignani Funny part is I am a Graf fan but this guy doesn't want just an inch, he wants a thousand miles for his beloved goddess. And very funny how obsessively he tracks down 'anti-Graf' comments on youtube. Wonder that it doesn't drive him crazy. Oh, wait a sec...! :0
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
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@CrimsonKing589051 He's such a nut case that sometimes I wonder if his last name is Parche...
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@CrimsonKing589051 That's it.I loved watching Graf play - the footwork alone was poetry in motion - but sicko's like this one almost make you dislike her. It's like you say, for this guy, only Graf exists, and nobody else is allowed to count for anything. Why do you suppose she attract all these crazies as fans?!. BTW - did you see, someone cancelled your last comment as spam. It would be funny, but it's just soooo sick.
assindiastignani 1 month ago
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@assindiastignani
lol, didn't notice that! What should I say, spam or not is in the eyes of the beholder! :P As for why...I guess any popular figure and esp somebody who has achieved something remarkable (her calendar slam) attracts a following that sometimes becomes fanatical.
CrimsonKing589051 1 month ago
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@assindiastignani He really is vicious and quite disturbed IMO. I've told him before that if Steffi had as many slam titles as he has personalities, even I would call her the greatest player in history!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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I loved this match, especially seeing Steffi lose...
kljMN2 2 months ago
Serena and Seles fans need a reality check. As well as Court haters. These are the all time rankings:
1-3: Graf, Navratilova, Court in some order
4. Evert
5-7. Connolly, Lenglen, Wills, in some order
8. King
9. Serena
10. Seles
Serena and Seles are at the BOTTOM of the top 10. That is where all experts (and no John Worthless is not one) puts them. Only in your little fantasy Worlds are they anywhere near being GOAT contenders. Deal with it.
grafgirl27 2 months ago 32
@grafgirl27 Evert, King, Court and Navratilova won their slam titles while their chief rivals were in the game. Steffi won ONE HALF of her slam titles AFTER the most dominant player in the game was stabbed and removed from the game. Despite this TREMENDOUS advantage, she still could not match Court's singles slam title count, Evert won 50 more singles titles than Steffi did, and Navratilova won 60 more singles titles than Graf did. And Steffi's best ever? ROFLMAO! It's not even close!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@grafgirl27 What experts? Graf had 23 grand slams in total, including doubles and singles...Serena has 27 and counting. Graf was a great player in a time when the competition was weak after, especially her countrymen stabbed Seles in her back.
Other experts say that serena is the greatest of all times and others have her higher on the list than your little list...lmao. Anyone can pull a list out of their ass, doesn't mean it's the definitive list of all times.
twarren20 3 weeks ago
@twarren20 Very funny, name me a single expert who rates Serena greatest ever (and no a fool like Jon Wertheim does not count). Then rating a doubles slam, even mixed doubles on exact par with a singles slam, haha. Lastly the competion element, Serena is the queen of weak competition, lording in the era Wozniacki, Safina, Jankovic, and Ivanovic all became #1. Thanks for the laughs deluded Serena fanboy.
grafgirl27 3 weeks ago 6
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@grafgirl27 HAHAH..."name an expert besides the ones I don't like" is basically what you're saying. There are also players currently playing who call her the greatest player ever like Clijsters...which is a greater honor. Serena was the queen of competition with Venus, Davenport, Seles, Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, and other greats besides the lames you named...do try again. Graf had the weakest competition of all time and she prob paid her countrymen to stab Seles...sure she did...LMAO
twarren20 3 weeks ago
@grafgirl27 I'd put them after Evert because they played on all 4 different courts. Not just grass and clay. Serena is really not done so she does have a chance to move.
jjmaze 6 days ago
The fact that the few Graf haters and ardent fans of Navratilova, Serena, and Seles have to team up to gang up against Graf in nearly every thread is just more proof that she is the best ever. Contrary to the claims of the bitter loser fans of these players (I dont mean all the fans of these players are such, just the morons like the ones posting her) Graf fans dont even argue her as the best ever much. They dont have to, pretty much every historian rates her as such.
grafgirl27 2 months ago 15
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@grafgirl27 Tell me who all these experts are who rate Graf as GOAT. I know of Steve Fink, who else? Names please.
For Martina, I'll give you Bud Collins, Billie Jean King, Tennis Magazine (their panel of experts rated Navratilova as top female player of the last 40 years in 2005, ahead of Graf) and Tennis Week which did a statistical analysis in 2007 that showed Martina to be the most dominant player of all time, just ahead of Court and Graf.
Names, please.
Nicklas4500 2 months ago
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@grafgirl27 - Why do you Graf fans have to act so snobby all the fricking time? You're just like Steffi, stuck up and just a big pain in the ass. The only thing I ever liked about Graf was that she retired quietly and didn't make a big scene... It has to be said, Steffi was THE most boring women's tennis player ever.... It'd be great if one day we didn't have to go through such stupid fighting on here everyday.
kljMN2 2 months ago
@grafgirl27 I'm a huge graf fan . she is the reason i became a tennis fan . Later I became a huge Serena fan. Numbers cant be argued . Graf is still my favorite of all time. Way better than Seles however I have common sense - graf was and is a great athlete but tennis has changed. She unlike other past stars would have been comptitive with todays group of top players. But I'm not sure prime for prime that she would have beaten Serena. strictly on tenni skill I give Serena and edge.
lword1970 1 month ago 9
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@grafgirl27 - If someone had stabbed Chris Evert in the middle of her rivalry with Martina maybe I would agree that Graf is better... Martina accomplished more given the competition and technology of her time.
niev300 1 month ago
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@grafgirl27 Only Graf fans who are afraid of facts would rather rely on flimsy opinion polls to determine who the greatest player of all-time is. That's what record books are for. The record for? most slam titles is held by someone other that Steffi Graf. The record for most singles titles is held by someone other than Steffi Graf. The record for most slams in singles, doubles and mixed is held by someone other than Steffi Graf. There is absolutely no way that Steffi is greatest ever. No way!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@grafgirl27 Again, HALF? of Steffi's slam titles were won AFTER the most dominant player in tennis was viciously attacked and removed from the game. Martina won more than Steffi in singles, doubles and mixed while competing against an 18 singles slam winning legend for nearly two decades!!! And Steffi's better? ROFL! Steffi is not part of the GOAT discussion because of what she accomplished with her racket, she's part of it because of what Parche accomplished with a knife.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@grafgirl27 Hoffy dear, It makes perfect sense that you have no respect for me...I am a tax paying citizen, never cheated on court, my mother would never have stood by and allowed anyone to teach me illegal hand signals, and my father? is not an ex-con with a penchant for models half my mothers age and ten times as beautiful. No doubt about it, Steffi is MUCH more your type!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@grafgirl27 Even if you were educated enough to understand the impact? that a vicious attack has on the life of a young woman it wouldn't matter. I think the only thing about the stabbing that disturbed you is that you didn't have the satisfaction of plunging the knife in personally...
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@grafgirl27 Evert, King, Court and Navratilova won their slam titles while their chief rivals were in the game. Steffi won ONE HALF of her slam titles AFTER the most dominant player in the game was stabbed and removed from the game. Despite this TREMENDOUS advantage, she still could not match Court's singles slam title count, Evert won 50 more? singles titles than Steffi did, and Navratilova won 60 more singles titles than Graf did. And Steffi's best ever? ROFLMAO! It's not even close!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@grafgirl27 Hoffy, I said Serena at her best would crush Steffi at her best...Serena is faster, more powerful, more athletic, superior all around game, superior backhand, superior serve, superior volley, superior return...Steffi would not stand a chance.
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@grafgirl27 AKA Hoffenheim, Mead, Pox, etc... Interesting that you have such harsh words for people who oppose your delusional views, yet you praise a person who cheated on court and signed fraudulent tax returns. Being nasty to fans of Seles and Serena won't change facts, Hoffy...Steffi does NOT have the most slam titles, Steffi does NOT have the most singles titles, and 50%of Steffi's slam titles were earned AFTER a DOMINANT Monica Seles was stabbed..NO WAY is Steffi best ever and you know it!
MissThingSings 1 month ago
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@grafgirl27 It is BS that pretty much every historian rates Graf as best ever. Bud Collins knows as much about Women's tennis as anyone...according to Bud the greatest player in history is Martina Navratilova. Bud added one little disclaimer to his opinion..he stated that Monica Seles was on her way to being the greatest ever until she was stabbed...Monica didn't need Steffi out of the game to dominate the slams..she was racking them up while Steffi was competing, which makes her superior...
MissThingSings 1 month ago 37
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@grafgirl27 Graf fans don't even argue her as the best ever but yet you're on her trolling harder than a crack addict who just learned that crack is not being made any longer...HILARIOUS...if you didn't have anything to prove you wouldn't be on her fighting like Xena warrior princess...LOL
twarren20 3 weeks ago
@twarren20 "Graf fans dont even argue her as the best ever." hahaha, you are officaly a crackhead, probably that MissSingThings loser under her 100th name on here. What you meant to say "even many non Graf fans believe she is the best ever and ONLY the most delusional Serena fans such as idiots like Serenakicksass and twarren argue her as best ever." Even comparing Serena to Graf in historical terms, you Serenatards and your fantasy World, so cute.
grafgirl27 3 weeks ago 14
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@grafgirl27 LOL and you just spelled "officially" like a crackhead. At the end of the day Serena has 27 Grands Slams in counting and Graf has only 23. Doubles definitely count because that means that you had to be even better shape to focus on both or all three tourneys. Please, I can't wait until the investigations shows that Graf's camp paid the German guy to stab the competition (Seles)...oh wasn't she under investigation for tax evasion? Well, wouldn't put anything past her dishonest ass...
twarren20 3 weeks ago
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@grafgirl27 I'm doing an excellent job of exposing you for being the idiot you are under this username...why on earth would I need another one? You've been exposed for having multiple usernames and so you are trying to divert attention away from yourself...and you don't know who is or isn't a crackhead so why don't you stick to facts. It is a FACT that Steffi signed fraudulent tax returns. It is a FACT that she was penalized for illegal hand signals. It is a FACT that her father is an ex-con!!!
MissThingSings 3 weeks ago 2
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@grafgirl27 John Wertheim of Sports Illustrated has called Serena the best ever. You might not agree, but it is not true to say that only fans of Serena would say so. The article is online, as are articles documenting how Steffi was penalized for receiving illegal hand signals. Google it =) Serena does not yet have the record, but at her best she is MUCH better than Steffi ever was. Better serve, backhand, volley, speed, power, return, athleticism, accountant, parents, morals, etc... ROFLMAO!!!
MissThingSings 3 weeks ago
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leydeecute 1 week ago
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@grafgirl27 so ur saying that sabine,petkovic,henin,clijster and navratilova are retards???saying that serena is the best tennis player of all time...Martina Navratilova said that she puts serena in her top 5 best female tennis player of all history and im kinda curious why she didnt mention steffi's name notably(Serena,Henin,Evert,king and herself) and she said that being the best player doesn't mean that u have to win as many titles as u can but its the game that u can produce.
leydeecute 1 week ago
Steffi probably could've played a few more years and contended for majors on her champion's mentality alone. But that backhand would've become more and more of a liability the longer she played the hingis-williams-kournikova generation.
htownhomie06 2 months ago
As for after the stabbing, all it showed was Seles could not cope well with the new age of power players who hit harder than her. Graf was older and further past her prime than Seles by the late 90s but still was able to compete with and beat Hingis, Venus, Davenport, Serena, which Seles couldnt. An old warped 30 year old Graf with a 38 year old body after al the surgeries being more competitive than a mid 20s Seles only reinforced who the better player is (not that it wasnt already obvious).
russianskatingfan 2 months ago
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@russianskatingfan After all these years it is just amazing that Graf fans are still taking a stab at Monica Seles. Everyone knows that Steffi won more lams than Monica. And everyone knows that one half of Steffi's slams were won after Gunther Parche did with a knife what Steffi wasn't talented enough to do with her racket. More than her titles, I'm most impressed with Monica's integrity...she never cheated on court or on taxes. She was a class act...just like her parents.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
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@russianskatingfan At one point Monica Seles had won 7 slams to Steffi's 11 with 20 FEWER slam appearances. So I agree that it was quite obvious who the better player was...it certainly was obvious to Steffi's #1 fan, Gunther Parche.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
Also most of these "experts" (and most dont even say Serena plays at the highest level ever, only a select few, and that was only in 02-03 which surprisingly lasted only 18 months so these few would probably take it back now) who say Serena at her best plays at the highest level ever are commentators or people desperately trying to promote todays struggling womens game. Once Serena retires I bet nobody will say this, but some will be saying it about Kvitova which is even more ridiculous.
russianskatingfan 2 months ago
Seles was also not the first women powerful off both forehand and backhand. Chris Evert, Margaret Court, Hana Mandlikova, Nancy Richey, are some examples of others who played many years earlier very powerful off both sides. Going back even further Helen Wills Moody and Maureen Connolly.
russianskatingfan 2 months ago
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@russianskatingfan Anyone who calls Chris Evert a power player doesn't know squat about tennis. On a hardcourt vs. a big hitter she could match power, but she didn't initiate it like Monica did. Margaret Court chipped her backhand most of the time...absolutely no comparison to Seles. Seles was the first player who could hurt her opponents with power from both wings.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings You are the one who knows squat about tennis, although your various ignorant posts on this thread already show that. Evert was considered the hardest hitting baseliner of her era. Renee Richards one of the most respected coaches and wisest tennis minds at the time said "Chris hit bullets and dont let anyone tell you otherwise."
grafgirl27 2 months ago 4
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MissThingSings 2 months ago
wow could 3:01 be any more out...
sibais 2 months ago
Jesus Williams... so many spam...
MercuriePL 2 months ago
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! Goodbye!!
JTennisVideos 2 months ago
Hoffenheim will NEVER admit that Steffi's backhand was lucky to arrive in the game when it did.
Her forehand for sure is the reason she has so many slams....it was great enough to protect her backhand side in a game where all her competitors couldn't hit a shot above 40 mph (I know it's an exaggeration but it's still not far from the truth)
Put that backhand in today's game, and she'd be toast....ADMIT IT HOFFENHEIM!!!!!!!!
QuadThreat85 2 months ago
This is the moment where serena redefined tennis. awesome ^^
theonlyexceptionx3x3 2 months ago
@theonlyexceptionx3x3
By beating an over-the-hill Graf who played only her twelfth-best season in 1999?
Don't be silly, kid ...
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
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theonlyexceptionx3x3 2 months ago
@theonlyexceptionx3x3
You really think S. Williams "redefined" women's tennis in this match because she "showed the importance of power tennis" .... ? LOL
Graf won 33 of 42 matches in 1999. 78.6 %. She had 10 years with 90 % or more.
So a 17-year future #1 player narrowly beat a former great 5 months before her retirement.
Wow ...
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Evert and Navratilova were far superior to Graf...they racked up nearly as many slam titles while competing against their chief rival for their ENTIRE careers! Imagine how many more slams either would have won with the other absent (well, I know you won't go there because the truth hurts lol)...not only that, but Martina also racked up doubles and mixed doubles slam titles along the way. And Steffi is better? ROFLMAO!!!!!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Evert won 12 of her 18 slams until Wimbledon 1981. At that point Navi had won just 2 slams. Navi won her first slam in 1978 when Evert had already won 7 slams. Navi started to win slams big-time only when Evert was in her late 20s / early 30s.
And when Shriver, Turnbull types were top-5 for many years.
Yes, Steffi would have shaken in her boots with a "competition" like this ...
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Evert and Navratilova are FAR superior to Graf. They had to EARN their slams...and they never cheated, either!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Yes, that's why Evert and Navratilova win all those GOAT polls!
Oh, wait ...
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Yes i do. Let's be honest Graf's backhand is worth sh*t nowadays. And who would hit those backhands like Serena in those days? (maybe apart from Hingis, even tough they lacked power). AND SAY WHAT?!? ONLY 78.6%. SHE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HERSELF!! and still win RG?? where is the sanity in that?? unless maybe, just maybe.. she was good?? She retired when she was what nr3 in the world?? Henin retired when she was nr1. Clijsters will surely retire this year. that doesn't mean anything
theonlyexceptionx3x3 2 months ago
@theonlyexceptionx3x3
Steffi was good in 1999. But she was not great anymore. She lost to many journeywomen in 1998/99 because her knee wasn't cooperating fully anymore.
1987-96 were her best years, she had an annual winning percentage of at least 89 % in those years.
Still she was good enough in 1999 to overtake Venus and Serena in the rankings in the last months of her career. Venus, who had one of her best seasons ever in that year (won 6 titles, same as in 2000 & 2001).
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 OH HERE YOU GO AGAIN!.....Venus would trade those 6 titles in 1999 for one GS...BAD YEAR by her standards.
And you refuse to admit that Graf (despite being less physically) was one of the best players of 1999...definitely top 5...she retired THEN because she knew what would happen to her had she stuck around a few more years...she probably would have collected another slam or two, but she didn't want the losses that were going to come with it.
QuadThreat85 2 months ago
@QuadThreat85
1999 was clearly one of Venus' four best years ever.
Steffi had severe injury problems in her last years. And she wanted to marry and have kids - in contrast to all those (mostly gay) US female tennis stars (King, Evert, Navratilova, Seles, Williams sisters). Nothing wrong with that.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 one of her best years in title wins....that does not equate a good or great year, for if it did, people wouldn't be all over Wozniacki right now.....get over yourself!...you've been using this SAME FUCKING USELESS fact about Venus' 1999 for YEARS!
and it's honestly pathetic....as I said before, 6 WTA titles do not equate to a GS, and who cares if she had injuries...she wasn't losing!...still in GS conversation...it just shows her closeted inner brat even more.
QuadThreat85 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 and you just said mostly gay.....when clearly there were only 3.
stop reaching for shit....it makes you look desperate.
QuadThreat85 2 months ago
Serena is so ugly inside and outside. Plus a worse player than Graf.
beavertown2006 2 months ago
@beavertown2006 : your attitude is ugly.... I'd also be willing to bet that your physical appearance is quite ugly as well!
kljMN2 2 months ago
@kljMN2 Yours uglier.
beavertown2006 2 months ago
@beavertown2006 You are certainly entitled to your opinion that Serena is unattractive, but you should know that some people may be compelled to point out the fact that Steffi never won any beauty contests either. As far as Serena being ugly on the inside, Graf fans need to be careful about being judgmental...Steffi not only cheated on the court (she was caught receiving hand signals from her father multiple times), but there was that little issue with tax evasion. Just saying...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Steffi was voted most beautiful female player by tennis fans at the FO 95, Sabatini was 2nd. Becker admitted in a Playboy interview "“Every tennis player in our generation liked Steffi Graf: great woman, great body, sexy, always winning. Everyone in the locker room found Steffi hot.” Steffi never cheated on the court, and never cheated with taxes (her dad did).
So compare Steffi with a person like S. Williams is insulting. Why this raging hate?
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Steffi Graf was complimented for her figure...NOBODY ever called her beautiful unless their last name was Graf or Agassi....or perhaps her #1 fan, Gunter Parche. You are delusional lol
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
“Every tennis player in our generation liked Steffi Graf: great woman, great body, sexy, always winning. Everyone in the locker room found Steffi hot.”
(Boris Becker, PLAYBOY, 2009)
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Again, where did Boris Becker (or anyone) say Steffi was beautiful? Post a source that specifically refers to Steffi from the chin up...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 I don't know if you are a liar or just plain ignorant...probably both. However, it is not my opinion that Steffi cheated on court it is a FACT. She was penalized multiple times for receiving hand signals and verbal coaching (in German) from her father. That is cheating, dear...and it is very well documented in articles so only an idiot would argue...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
"Receiving" is cheating?
You are one sick puppy ...
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Yes, receiving is cheating, idiot...let me help you understand. You know how a catcher gives signals to a pitcher? In order for that little scenario to work the catcher and the pitcher have to rehearse...otherwise the pitcher won't know what the signals mean. You may be too ignorant to understand, but the WTA understood and that is why Steffi was penalized...because she cheated!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 The same justice system that allowed Gunter Parche to stab another human being without being punished is the same justice system that allowed Steffi Graf to remai jail-free for tax evasion. The fact is that Steffi avoided jail only by playing dumb and testifying against her father. The taxes that were not paid were HERS, not her fathers...therefore SHE was responsible. Hysterical that you only admire Steffi when you pretend she is something that she's not! LOLOL!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Parche didn't go unpunished.
Steffi could not be punished because tax evasion is only a crime in Germany when you do it on purpose.
Steffi never testified against her father.
Why not stop lying, you Selesian bitch?
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 I'm sure you heard your mother refer to your absentee father as a bitch, so I am not surprised that you would use that word out of anger and frustration...I feel for you =(
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
My father is dead, bitch.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 In Germany, just like every other country in the world with tax laws, your signature on your tax forms means that the information contained within is accurate. Steffi signed the documents..they were HER taxes!!!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
For several years Pa Graf used an autograph machine to sign Steffi's tax forms, as you know very well.
And it may surprise you but in Germany tax evasion as a criminal offense means you KNOW that the numbers in your tax form are wrong.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
Comment removed
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@atiboy1 Steffi's all time career slam mark is inflated just as anyone's would be if their path was cleared by the stabbing of their chief rival...at a time when their chief rival was dominating (even Andre Agassi said so.)
MissThingSings 2 months ago
I would imagine that best form Serena will beat Graf only if they play on slow and high bounce playing conditions like today. Otherwise back on fast grass court (pre 2002 era), I say Graf would beat Serena because of her mobility, endurance and rock solid mentality. People seem to forget that younger Graf used to run much faster and hit much harder than what is shown in this video. And her slice would have worked much better on faster courts.
nocode61 2 months ago
wtf is on william's head
tennisproderek 3 months ago
Graf was so lucky to win RG 1999. Had Martina Hingis not had that severe meltdown, Steffi wouldn't have won the title, IMO...
kljMN2 3 months ago
I wonder if V and S will ever play Indian Wells again...
kljMN2 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
Martina Navratilova once said that it's not about how many Slams or trophies won but about a player's form and talent in tennis. The debate about the woman's bets tennis player can be endless but Navratilova ranks Serena among the top-5 best of all times. Navratilova further said "...it would have been interested to play Serena but I'm glad I didn't have to..".
One thing for sure - Serena will beat Graf if both players face eachother in their best forms.
magnetmac 3 months ago
I am so sick of people using the f-cking race card. Serena isn't liked because of her personality and classlessness, not her race.
rjgib1016 3 months ago
@rjgib1016 Serena isn't liked for her "personality and classlessness" in a sport that has made hero's and legends out of John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors??? You cannot be serious! I make no excuses for Serena's outbursts, especially the one at the last US Open...it was shameful, embarrassing and inexcusable. That said, the tennis world would be much more forgiving if she had the same complexion as John and Jimmy, two people who did much worse, more often.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings yes, it's because she is black. you are so right.
typical!!!
rjgib1016 2 months ago
@rjgib1016 Actually, what is typical is people like you who make bold and unfounded statements that you can't support with facts. I demonstrated that this sport has embraced others with bad personalities and classlessness, so your theory as to why people dislike Serena so much doesn't make sense. I am not defending her actions...they don't deserve to be defended. However, it's foolish to deny the double standard...Connors and McEnroe were far worse, more often...yet beloved. Wonder why...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Connors beloved?
Where????
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
At 6:11 Graf hit a proper backhand... *_*
morriganblane 3 months ago
Serena had to play her heart out to beat a retiring champion who was the greatest of all time and had a winning edge over Serena. How people can say Serena is best of all time is laughable, she only has half the GS titles of the other greats, has a laughable record outside the GS's...... some people need a reality check
jigsterify 3 months ago
@jigsterify Serena was just an 18 year old upstart, for Christ's sake. She was no where near to realising her full potential. At their peaks, Serena would blow Steffi off the court.
hiu1787 3 months ago
@hiu1787 well the point is exactly when WAS she at her peak, she may have blown Steffi off the court on one of her best days (tho I still think it would be very close) but she is so inconsistent (especially outside slams) that she wouldnt even be worthy of polishing Steffis boots. Sam Stosur trashed Serena in US open final. Steffi is best of all time, Serena is a part time champion, deal with it
jigsterify 3 months ago
@jigsterify Agreed, Serena (and Venus) were very inconsistent outside of the majors. If I could nail down a period where Serena was at her peak I would say 2002-03, before the multitude of injuries and the death of her older sister. Serena was unbeatable during that streak. This Serena would've easily dominated Graf at her peak. There is really no contest there.
hiu1787 3 months ago
@hiu1787
In 2002/03 Serena lost to Shaughnessy, Schnyder, a still maturing Henin (3 times!), Rubin, young Clijsters and Mauresmo.
8 losses and only 12 tournament wins.
Wow, Steffi really must be shaking in her boots with fear ...
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Look, how many GS did she lose during that period? ONE - to a cheating Henin. It is well known that Serena and Venus' results lack outside of the majors, so its not uncustomary for them to lose at smaller events, but for the big ones, the majors they show up, especially Serena. I'm sure she'd take a loss to Rubin in Los Angeles if she could wind up winning the US Open. I think that's the one people will remember most
hiu1787 3 months ago
@hiu1787
We are talking about whether peak Serena would have dominated Steffi easily.
Peak Steffi would have run circles around Serena, son ...
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 You were the one who brought up names, not me. Peak Serena would blast Steffi at her peak, right off the court.
hiu1787 3 months ago
@hiu1787
When was Serena at her peak?
And what heroic actions did she do then?
Beat her sister and Davenport?
Peak Graf would be shaking in her boots ....
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08
When was Graf at her peak?
And who did she beat? And please don't say an aging Navratilova, or Evert?
Peak Serena would be shaking in her boots ...
hiu1787 3 months ago
@hiu1787
Steffi won 93.9 % of her 732 matches in 1986-97.
S. Williams' won 92.7 % of her 40 matches in her best year ever (2003).
Even average Steffi was better than peak S. Williams.
Hoffenheim08 3 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Steffi Graf won half of her grand slams titles AFTER her chief rival was viciously attacked and removed from the game at the height of her domination...Steffi's record is impressive, but it is so inflated it would qualify as a float in the the Thanksgiving day parade!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Seles was removed for a few months. After that it was her free choice.
Seles profited far more from the Graf family blackmail scandal in 1990/92 than Steffi profited from Seles being out for more than 2 years because of her dad dying from cancer.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 It was a Graf fan who plunged a knife into the back of Monica Seles, so I am not surprised that a Graf fan would think a young woman should recover from an attempt on her life in "a few months"...after all, Steffi didn't have enough integrity or compassion to drop out of the very tournament in which Monica was stabbed to clear the path for her...so...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
What "attempt on her life" are you talking about?
And why should Steffi drop out of the tournament? People had bought tickets, dummy. And it was only a small stab wound. Everybody thought, phew, Seles was lucky and will return to the game within weeks. Who would have guessed that she wouldn't feel able to compete for more than two (!) years???
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 I don't expect a person like you to get it, just like Steffi didn't get it. With her cheating on the court, and that little problem with tax evasion, Steffi's lack of integrity didn't come as a surprise...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 You're an idiot.
kljMN2 2 months ago
@kljMN2
That coming from someone like YOU is hilarious!!
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Monica Seles was dominating the slams until she was stabbed...she dominated in a way that Steffi had not. What Steffi could not do with her racket, one of her nutso fans did with a knife. I can't imagine anyone being so cold and heartless as to state that any part of Monica's absence was her "free choice"..unless their last name is Graf or Parche.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@hiu1787 I think it would be a good match, but I absolutely agree that Serena would blow Steffi off the court. Serena had more weapons than anyone Steffi ever faced...as great a player as Steffi was, her record is highly inflated because her chief rival was stabbed and removed from the sport just as she started to dominate. No way Steffi would have racked up all those titles with Monica in the game, and Serena had more weapons than Monica did!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings I agree, although Steffi was arguably a great player and that goes without saying, her record would not have been what it is if Monica was able to play at the same dominant levels she was at during 91-93. Monica was absolutely dominant during that period.
hiu1787 2 months ago
@hiu1787 Absolutely..Monica Seles owned tennis and certainly would have continued to dominate for years, barring injury. Monica came back a mere shadow of her former self, both physically and mentally, and still managed to win titles and reach major finals...so there is absolutely no doubt that she would have continued to dominate for years. Steffi lacked integrity IMO, but she was a great player...not as great as Monica in her prime, and certainly not as great as Serena.
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@jigsterify Sam Stosur is much more talented than Amanda Coetzer ever was, and we all know what Amanda used to do to Steffi lol! Steffi was a great player, but half of her slam titles were won after her chief rival was stabbed and removed from the sport...even Agassi said how much easier it was for Steffi with Seles out. Monica was dominating the slams in a way that Steffi never did, and Serena Williams has more weapons than Monica ever did. She would have pummeled Steffi...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings with all due respect you may think Serena would have "pumelled" Steffi and that is your opinion, but I think its a load of rubbish. Steffi was the greatest female player in history, and a champion is a champion no matter what era. Serena has shown time again she doesn't have the consistency to be an all time great. Sure she has sudden bursts here and there but Steffi would by far beat her most times. And what competition has Serena had? Wozniacki?
jigsterify 2 months ago
@jigsterify
Serena?
The fat black girl who lost to giants like Testud (twice), Likhovtseva, Suarez, Shaughnessy, Schnyder (4 times), Rubin, Petrova (3 times), Zvonareva (twice), Jidkova, Farina Elia, Schiavone (twice), Craybas, Sun, Hantuchova, Bammer (twice), Chan, Chakvetadse, Srebotnik, Wozniak, Na Li, Azarenka, Zakopalova, in 1999-2010?
This Sings dude indeed misses things ...
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 The fat black girl pays her taxes...most #1 players in history can say that, but not all...ROFLMAO!!!!!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Steffi paid all her taxes, son.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 If Steffi paid her taxes why did her father get convicted of tax evasion? Are you brain dead?
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Because he intentionally tried to avoid those taxes, you stupid cow.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 The fat black chick doesn't need her father to illegally coach her during matches...the fat black chick doesn't have a mother who would sit silently while her father taught her to cheat by using illegal hand sigals...the fat black chick doesn't have an ex con for a father...I'll just stop right there ROFLMAO!!!!!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
And who do you think "needed" her father to illegally coach her during matches, dickhead?
Didn't the dad of the fat black chick hit her mother in the face? Nice dude, that ...
But it's about the players themselves having class. Steffi has it, Serena not.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 I don't expect a person like you to be able to express yourself without name calling or foul language...I don't blame you, I blame your mother. If she's ever able to figure out who your father is perhaps he'll have an impact. It's never too late and I'm rooting for you!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
My parents died several years ago, you dumb bitch.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 And I am sure your parents died from disappointment...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
No, car crash.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 They probably committed suicide...having such a classless piece of trash for a child would be difficult for anyone to accept. Did your mother ever figure out who your real father is?
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Is that a problem in you trailer park?
I mean, figuring out who the father of your kid is?
Land of the freeee and the braaaave ....
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Most kids would much rather visit their father in a trailer park than a jail cell...
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Better just two years in a jail cell and then the next 20 years in a huge villa.
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 It's only better to people who have no morals or integrity...I'm starting to think your last name is Graf...hmmmmm
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Apparetly Steffi needed her father to coach her during matches because that is absolutely what he did. They got caught (ON NATIONAL TELEVISION!) and she was penalized. She has ZERO class or integrity IMO!
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Because Pa Graf did "coach" due to his own nervousness you think Steffi needed it?
Are you paid to play dumb here?
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Peter Graf knew Steffi much better than you or I did...obviously HE thought she needed illegal coaching so who are we to argue?
MissThingSings 2 months ago
@MissThingSings
Pa Graf thought a lot. Most of it didn't make sense.
Let me guess - you are American, no?
Still not getting over it that you USA faves are not the greatest of all time?
Well, live with it, bitch ...
Hoffenheim08 2 months ago
@Hoffenheim08 Sweetheart, my ethnicity has nothing to do with it...I don't root for or against players on the basis of race. Your parents were ignorant and lacked class, which is why you are such a failure. It's not your fault that they were such trash...I am truly sympathetic =(
MissThingSings 2 months ago