As an Englishmen I am Fond of the German people and it PISSES ME OFF knowing that everyday they have to wake watching a fucking history documentary about the "evil" Germans, BULLSHIT the Japanese committed much more war crimes than the Germans, the Germans had sympathy for the people, the Japanese killed millions of innocent raped hundreds of thousands. The poor German sods just can't escape it, there are narrow minded people in this world that will say "I don't like German people their nazies"
It's not the Germans fault as a people that the holocaust happened. Many Germans were against it actually. It was those in power that forced it on everybody. I've learned to distinguish Germans from Nazis. The Nazis where a minority of Germans that misled a whole people. AS far as what they deserve the Nazis got what they deserved in 1945 and in the time afterward. Justice was carried out.
Well I dont know if thats truth it can be so but most of german people were loyal to Hitler until his dead is actualy amazing how loyal they were justice was in no any carried out many peoples actualy suffer under Allied Boot not just germans I am talked about batls hungarians etc so justice of WWII is victor justice
In that case soviets shouldnt deserved to live because for what they did to Asian and European Nations milions killed you think thats different?
Or americans for they did to native americans
Or british for they did to africans indians or other peoples man human nature is full of massacres germans werent so different from other sides of WWII actualy the soviets made more war crimes than germans
Im Russian but born in Denmark and not to defend my people but: The Soviet Union would never had comitted thoose crimes if it weren`t for the Germans dont get me wrong russia and russians are a peacefull people i know that you think Russians and Russia is a stupid country who ruined other lifes and so we did but we just had some pritty bad leaders but never say that Soviet Union deserve to die Soviets might be the reason you live :)
Read you anothers (Volgokonov, Zemskov, etc), Stalin killed less than 10 million, Hitler 6 million jews, 500 000 gipsyes, more than 3 millions soviets POW, more than 10 millions soviet civilians and so on...
scitec101 you say war is heroic, you have obviously not been to one then have you. there is nothing heroic about war, just long periods of bitter boredom interrupted with short periods of intense terror,
I disagree with your first statement. Yes, war is horrible, but you also must remember that with the exeption of Stalin, this was a war by Democracy (even Russia became democratic eventually) and the nazi war machine. This battle was the final clash between the two.
World War 2 is large enough to be both horrible and heroic.
Scitech101, most of the people that died had no choice in which side they took. It was just an accident of birth.
Even at the state level, I don't even see it (or most wars) as good vs. evil. It was more like the greater evils (the Axis) vs the lesser evils (Western Allies) and the greatest evil (USSR).
See what Wiki has to say about Operation Keelhaul. That's nothing to be proud of.
The war between Germany and the West shouldn't have even happened.
We know in retrospect that A. The Nazis planned on killing of every last Jew. B. Russia would EVENTUALLY become democratic C. The Iron Curtian did not contain all of Europe. and D. If Hitler had won, facism would be far more prominent in the world.
Both Stalin and Hitler were meglomaniacs. However, Stalin was sane. Hitler was not. That adds to it.
Eisenhower deathcamp ( The last dirt story of WW2 , and the last Holocaust of the germans people ) : 1.7 million germans soldiers and + 5 million civilian died by starvation or dehydration in Rhine ( Germany ).
In 1945 , few months before, the world larggest bomber formation in the entire world history , over 3.000 bomber drop 2 millions tons of bomb over Dresden killed more 600,000 Germans people burned at over 1500 C°
Well , fokktamer i'm not saying that one was worse than the other, it is just disturbing to me that Stalin killed a lot more than Adolf but his crimes are never seen cause he was the **Saver** of the the Europe. that's my point.
fokktamer *noone says he was the saviour of europe* have you ever read any of communist written war history books* Communists saved the world . and tell me how can an army of 250000 men rape 10 million it means 40 woman for a soldier ?? PS i'm not a Nazi . And my point is that your nr. 10 million is wrong and
you talk of the Germans as a rapist nation while leaving out that the communists where such as bad. Panimajesh? Turak.
Fokktamer :and no communists did not save the world
i wish they had though -seems you're a communist. But really you seem to be interested in the ww2 You should watch the movie *The Soviet Story* it was released a month ago.
it's made in latvia and it's based on true facts. but i agree mostly the end is propaganda but still the movie is based on facts whit human witnesses who are still alive and who saw the horrible deeds whit their own eyes.
the soviet law was that the farmers who had more than few cows and too much land were sent to Siberia , school teacher's , everyone who was a threat to the soviet union or who was thinking like a democrat was sent to starve in Siberia. try argue that.
Rape and slaughter are a part of war. It doesn't matter, such behavior has occurred in warfare ever since its conception. The genocide of the natives by the Israelites, the Mongol literal extermination of resistance, the countless swabs over religion, wiping out cultures over land, I could go on for a life time just giving examples, No country, race, ethnicity, family is free from the blood of billions, carved into our history, we all are proud descendants of murderers, thieves and rapists.
The blame lies partly with poor discipline and alcohol. The curious attitude to sex in Stalin's Russia also played a part. In the regime's attempt to "deindividualize" the citizen, sexuality was suppressed—only to explode in primitive and violent forms. Yet Beevor's general conclusion is bleaker still. "[The mass rapes] tend to suggest that there is a dark area of male sexuality which can emerge all too easily in war where there are no social or disciplinary restraints," he writes.
Looting and random killings were commonplace. And so was rape. In the closing months of the war and its immediate aftermath, at least 2 million German women were victims. In Berlin, the figure may have topped 100,000. According to a doctor cited by Beevor, as many as 10,000 died as a result, mostly by suicide.
To be sure, some front-line units heeded orders and showed restraint, but many behaved with indiscriminate brutality. Even Russian and Jewish women, freed from labor or concentration camps, were raped. At one maternity clinic, victims included nuns, pregnant women and mothers who have just given birth. Beevor reckons a "substantial minority" were gang-raped.
Red army raped at least 2 million german women and girls.The rapes had begun as soon as the Red Army entered East Prussia and Silesia in 1944. In many towns and villages every female, aged from 10 to 80, was raped. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Nobel laureate who was then a young officer, described the horror in his narrative poem Prussian Nights: "The little daughter's on the mattress,/Dead. How many have been on it/A platoon, a company perhaps?"
Well, the same could be said about the German SS in the Soviet Union. The rape, pillage and looting was wide spread when the Russians entered East Prussia, but their wrath was somewhat justified. You cannot expect the good behavior from the Russian front line troopers, especially when many of them were former prisoners.
Check the Warsaw uprising brutally supressed by the SS they were not any better than the Russians.
Did you ever read about what the Soviets did to their own who were pow's in germany. In my eyes the raping and pillaging the soviets did made them just as bad as the German SS.
Yes I am well aware of the treatment of the POWs on both sides. By the end of the war there were almost no native Germans left in the SS. The Russians treated "traitors" even worse.
In that conflict both sides had committed numerous atrocities.The first village the German SS entered in Ukraine reports of them bashing babies against stones, same thing reported in 640 B.C. advancement of the Babylonians, this never stops and is just part of human nature, massacres have no national origin.
yes, and the Nazis were honourable, brave and gallant. YManthos, you fucking moron, what the hell is wrong with you? If you don't know anything, then don't let others see it by putting comments like yours on the web.
A lot of Russians were fighting against Soviets - they were betrayed by americans and brits when they send them to Stalin! with their families they were all killed by soviets.
I agree he killed 20 million civilians that is a huge number and his fellow party members and those responsible for that crime never got punished. And the worst thing is that those russian concentration camps aka "gulags" are still in use today.
Yes, i agree with you. They have today a lots of concentration camps. If you see, the closed regimes, without freedom are all comunists. But the media only talk about Guantanamo or Abu Grhaib... It`s our world my friend. But today we only have comunists dictators.
stalin was a tritor of communism....remember trotsky,kamenev ,zinovev,bukharin and many other revolutioners who where killed beacuse they where against stalins madness....not to mention how much he weakened the proletariat movement...
how many of you actually know the meaning of comunism and fascism or did your countrys fill yer head full of lies and propoganda, comunism is the idea of the gov. controling companies ect. fascism is the belief of the gov. over people, meaning people are worthles and they should die for there country
With no other interference from the west, Germany would have mopped up the reds in short order And in doing this would have dealt communism and capitalism a savage blow To bad it did not turn out, the world today would have a much brighter future
And you know about Gen. Patton right? you know what he wanted to do?? he wanted the high command to give the Germans back their weapons and invade russia together... America and the U.K knew that Germany was more civilized than the countrys east and SE of Germany ,so how do you explain that? if the Germans are such monsters like you say they are than why did the allied think of Germany more civilized than the east??
In socio-cultural terms, Germany is way closer to Western civilization than was USSR, then of course most western politicians viewed Russians as barbarians. Nazi state was the most terrible without question, that silly idea of Patton to ally with the devil would have cost the West dearly, as the Russians weren't that defenseless.
Did you know that the Soviet pilots had rather easy time destroying the American planes over North Korea (flying among the Korean pilots)? Do you really think the Americans are better fighters than the Germans?
the ustashe during the war killed hundreds of thousand s of serbs,jews,gypsies....the cehtnics were killin everyone in their way....the illiterate partisans were actually more cilivilized then the nazis....they never shot prisoners...unless their was a resaon for it....and again i say the ones who commited crimes were punished....after the war toguh the executinos strted andmostly the soldiers got the bullet
Anyways...Fact is without a secound front Germany would have Won the war...End of discussion...Partisans have not a chance to win a war,all they do is spread terror...and since Germany would have won the war at the eastern front by 1944 i dont see what you are arguing about
they wouldnt have won....do you know what is the size of the whole ussr??the were freezing to death in the european part uf russia...wait till the got to siberia...
second...on what grounds do you say the partisans spread terror...the germans spread more terror then any of the partisan movements in ww2....
Watch the HISTORY CHANNEL!! And do you know how close the German army came to Moscow?? very very close and by 1944 Moscow would have been taken and the war would have been over...since the Govt. is located in the Capital.Well the Partisans were Communists and did not care about their own people since they killed their own just because they helped some German Soldiers.And Germany was Never interested in Siberia, the Japanese wanted that General area.
so did the germans....they shot their commanders for failurs just like the soviets...raped,murdered....the partisans never did those things....the fate of all of the country was in risk...they didnt care about their people? you mean the people that war assisting the invaders?? do you know what kind of a genocide would happen if the chetnics came to power,or if the ustashe managed somehow to stay????
and if they did take the capital the goverment would not have been there...most gov.officials left,but stalin stayed and so did the high command...they would probably leave if the germans came to close...they were not stupid...and they perhaps would not have won since by 1944 they were on the retreat befor d-day...
wake up!!! i dont know in what world you live in but ALL you just said can be disproven. All i say is based on fact and not fiction like yours, "Partisans never executed anybody".... you are pathetic if you really believe that
What about Hsitory channel? Where does it say that the Soviets were supposed to loose to Germany? Without the second front the USSR managed to kick the Germans out of Moscow gates, kick their ass in Stalingrad and then destroy their best of the best armor in Kursk. How about that?
hahaha absolute bullshit. the only reason the Germans killed any1 was because of the partisans who continously killed their soldiers. if some1 other than the fucking commies killed my teammates Id burn their village to the ground too. and Id be fuckin pissed if the commies shot my teammates too
well,well....what the fuck where their teammates doing in the country of the commies in the first fucking place???
they fought for their freedom against the german,and italian invaders (hungarian and bulgarian too)and they had the right to kill them all.... SMRT FASIZMU-SLOBODA NARODU
haha dude your beloved Stalin killed 20 million of his own people LOL. Germany killed 10 million russian SOLDIERS Stalin killed 10 million more than the German army killed.But you never saw that in Nurenburg.
how do u mean there wouldnt been massacres....russia is a slavic country....slavs are a lower race as the aryans say....it dosent matter is stalin would have attacked germany cause either way hitler would attack russia,and there would be not that many massacres but they would enslave the whole people....
no not just Germany russia was planing to take all of Europe. And those massacres were done by russian soldiers, they would put on German uniform and than take pictures of them killing thousands. there is a lot of evidence that proves this. And most russian POWs were send to farms... and believe it or not but they liked working on a farm a lot more than living in russia.
and we have stalin to thank that....but there is a fact that germans did commit massacres in a foreign land(s) and that maybe understood but not justified...
but there was no real second front in Europe till 1943 by the time of Kursk battle, the tide was red already. Maybe you mean the battle of the Atlantic ;)?
There is NO way the russians could have won the war. The russians only won at Kursk because they outnumbered german tanks 10 to 1 and even than russia almost lost that battle. If you look at the the casualty rates you will see that the red army lost 10 man for every german. And the red army may have won some battles during 1943 but if it wasnt for that 2nd front in 1944 or the DAK germany would have stopped the russian advance by about early/mid 1944.
What do u americans have against russian acheivements?? Your numbers are far from reality, in some areas like Prokhorovka, Soviet tanks merely outnumbered the germans 4:1 and sure almost lost the battle. In most areas the ratios were between 1.7 and 2.8 to 1. The Italian and Normandy fronts barely carried 54 division but 142 were STILL on the Ost front and still op.Bagration was carried out BEFORE D-Day! Go read David Glantz or G.Krivosheev instead of providing garbage.
What russian achievements? there arent any. You do know that the russians gloryfied 95% of WWII history in their books right? and when ever the ratio was 5 russians vs 1 german, Germany would still win. The ONLY reason russia managed to stop the german advance was because of the WINTER!! and its true Germany lost about 2 million soldiers while russia lost 11 million.
Oh and one more thing, you do know that most King Tigers where used during the Ardennes offensive right? if Germany would have used that offensive against russia Germany would have been in Moscow by early 1945 maybe even sooner.If that offensive was so devastating to American troops just imagine what it could have done to a bunch of uneducated russians. LOL.
so devastating?? are u kidding Nazi-fanboy? The Ardennes offensive was all but successful, few US divisions were routed but the 101st held against the Waffen SS onslaughts, most german tanks got overextended to their dismal fuel consumption and reliability limits. What really makes you think the Germans would have had better luck against the much more battle-hardened Red Army??? Please don't reply with some fantasy jerk-off crap, I really feel I'm discussing with the village idiot.
you sound like the villiage idiot here, the ardense offensive failed due to lack of air cover for german troops after the weather cleared, the tanks ran out of fuel due to germany was short of fuel at this time in the war. the german troops in the east were also battle hardened, better trained, had better weapons also
true only thing is the fucking yanks were barely any better trained the the goddamn commie shits. the only reason the Ardennes offensive failed was because the Germans were running out of gas and the weather cleared up so that u.s planes could bomb the tigers and king tigers :(
Again garbage from this guy.Everybody glorifies war, sure Soviets did more than anybody, they won the war right! The Germans last victory in Ostfront was in Kharkov 1943, then they LOST in SUMMER mostly! Russian acheivements I'll give you some : Transsiberian railway, St-Petersburg, Napoleon's defeat, first man to space, the final crush of Nazi bastards like u!
absolutely correct. hell if I saw my friend next to me die at the hand of a fucking commie partisan Id burn their whole fucking village to the ground too!
And BTW ALL Books made by russians and other cummunist countrys are not reliable....they ALWAYS overgloryfie their History...the only whay to find out the truth is to talk to a German veteran who was there or talk to a citizen... Partisans always make stuff up
you see i have to look of both the partisan and the qisling side of the war...my grandpa was a domobran and saw everything the partisans did after the war...went trough camps and everything...only ustshe soldiers were killed,the domobrans not...while my other granpa was in the partisans...
Gosh... go read Krivosheyev or Kazhanov, ah never mind, try David Glantz, US Army's foremost expert on Eastern Front, he will change your mind on how to view the barbaric and uncompetent Red Army ;).
And those 100,000 troops (according to you) were probably send in to capture Yugoslavia not to fight those terrorist...and partisans usually dont have ANY structure and since 90% of them were civilians your statment about them as being well trained is WRONG again the only reason Germans had a hard time fighting them is very simple...They keept runing and Hiding
And no the russian airfoce was just as bad. And About the German Navy Germany had the best U-boots in the world!! and BTW Japan was Germanys Allied during WWII...every one knows that (somebody didnt do his research) and the U.S navy was kinda out of date due to the depression.
The VVS (Soviet air force) evolved during the conflict from a decimated organisation to a widely mobile tactital weapon with superb airplanes and many skillful pilots trained on the field of battle. The US Navy you're talking about is probably the pre-1941 one, fron 1942 onwards, the USN was to become the biggest, most modern and powerful naval arm in the world.
The VVS (Soviet air force) evolved during the conflict from a decimated organisation to a widely mobile tactital weapon with superb airplanes and many skillful pilots trained on the field of battle. The US Navy you're talking about is probably the pre-1941 one, fron 1942 onwards, the USN was to become the biggest, most modern and powerful naval arm in the world.
And i know what your thinking "if russian armor sucked so bad why did Germany lose"...The Germans were outnumbered!!!! 50,000 T34 tanks alone 10,000 T34/85 and thats just two types Germany only had 20,000 (All tanks) and split that number in Half since Germany was fighting a two front war...like i said before without a secound front Germany would have won by the end of 1944 thats a fact!
you obviusly dont know the situation in yugoslavia....did you hear of jasenovac?? gradiska stara?? read about it...the yugoslavs were mostly illiterate,and were mentaly on the level of the times when they fought the turks so you cant look at them on the same level you see the soviets or the germans etc.chetnics,ustashe,belogardists and many others who allied themself with the germans who were randomly killing people in th streets beacuse someone stole medicine for the partisans...
thhose were the ones who killed their people...so revenge came ofcourse it did...but less then what the germans did...if they killed someone for giving medicine to a german soldier it was beacuse he was helping tha nazis and harming the partisans....people who were killed were spyes,and soldiers of the qisling regimes....not civilians
What are the terrorist doing in the Middle east right now?? if a middle eastern family helps a U.S Soldier they will probably get killed by the terrorists the Partisans are just like them dont you see that??? Germans were and are very cicilized people Russia,and Partisans are the exact opposide
i told you you cannot look at the illiterate yugoslavs the same way you see the germans...
and those cases of killing civilians were very rare...and if you think that the ones who did those crimes were not punished,then you are wrong...the partisans had very strict rules,and were very disciplined until the force started to grow massively at the end of the war....then it was harder to oversee them all,but again the ones who did crimes were punished...during or after the war...
"split that number in half since Germany was fighting a two front war" : The Eastern front cost the Germans over 70% of their casualties, Fact! Actual kill-loss ratio was approx. 2:1 in favor of Axis, don't deny that by 1944 Soviet High Command was a very competent force, by 1945, Red Army was as or more efficient than Wehrmacht of 1940.
general ludorf luters said in his final report after the plan schwarz that the so called communist rebels (terrorists as you call them) were very organized,skillfuly led and were fighting with unbelievable high combat morale...german troops rather wanted to go to the eastern front then to yuogoslavia....and their partisans held the firt free territory in ocupied europe...
Where do you get all that Bullshit from??? your so beloved yoguslavian terrorists sometimes even killed their own people for giving aid to wounded German troops. they are scum and russian had THE worst tanks ever T34 weak armor weak gun, T35/85 weak armor,IS1 wrong angeld armor (a Pzfaust could have destroyed it)IS2 war ended before effective use, IS3 same as IS2
And yes the T34/76 had a weak hull and turret armour(45mm) and a weak gun, T34/85 had the same hull armour but improved turret armour and a stronger gun, the IS 1 had armour that was wrongly angeld, a soldier managed to destroy one with a PZ faust. Why do you think they made a IS 2 tank hu? you see it is you who is a complete idiot!!
More crap from the village idiot; ok the 76 had weak hull & turret armor, so weak the 37mm and 50mm guns of the Panzer III & IV were unable to inflict any significant damage to it, hence the appearance of later Tigers and Panthers (which was a sort of german T-34). T-34/85 used a bigger/longer gun to deal with this new threat. The IS-1/KV-85 never made it to full-scale production, Guderiam himself forbade the use of Kingtigers and Panthers against IS-2 after Sandomierz incident in August 44.
Hmm i knew you would pull the "you are a Nazi card" thats really pathetic. Well you do know that PZ III had no big problem with the T34 right however germany needed a stronger Panzer to destroy those T34 more effectively and thats how the Panzer IV came to be. The Tiger I was build to destroy the T34/85 and later those IS 2 tanks. And one King Tiger managed to keep an entire Red scum tank platoon away from a german supply depo.The ONLY thing a King Tiger had to fear were rockets from U.S planes.
OK i was just re reading the battle of latvia. A single Tiger I destroyed 17 JS 2 tanks and 5 T34's.... and that Tiger I survived that battle in fact only 3 Tiger I were lost and the Red scum army lost 30 JS2 and around 50 T34's that battle took place during 1944 and during this battle the red scum had to retreat!!! that just proves my theory if Germany would have had all its military at the eastern front the red scum would have lost
And i also noticed you said "the 30mm&50mm guns of the Panzer3-4..." WOW you are so stupid!! the PanzerIII had a 50mm and the PanzerIV had a 75mm gun.Its Also very sickening that there are some people (lape2002) who support someone who killed more civilians than Hitler.20 million more to be exact.
the american m1,and soviet mosin-nagant rifles were better then the german kar 98....but german machine guns were better...
the soviets had the best artillery in the world...german 88 mm flak guns were only better then soviet artillery...on the field the americans tacticaly outplayed the germans by far...
Please tell me you do know that modern military tactics came from the germans, here these are the things Germany was BEST at than any other nation: Tactics, Equipment, Training, Supply, quality of material, Airforce,Ground units and Navy. things Germany was BAD at: lack of building material and gasoline, and thats it.
And the yoguslavien partisans didnt win at all, they were terrorists and there was no such thing as 5 offensives against them, Germany only send in a small Waffen SS unit to clean up. After a Waffen SS attack some of those terrorists ran away and stayed hidden till the end of the war....thats the truth deal with it.
o really....then why did the send 140 000 troops in the first phase of plan weiss...and 127 000 in the ofeesnive after???why did the nubmer of the partisans rose from day to day? why did the kill 50 people for every wounded and 100 for every killed soldier...beacuse they couldnt fight them...why?beacuse they fought a guerilla war and every ofefensive they made against them was a failure...hitler himself was pissed beacuse they couldnt capturetito...
training...prehaps,but again troops of other countries had far better troops then the germans....supply?? it was the lack of supplies in russia that forced them to a halt....navy?? the navy was their weakest spot...the americans would clean the bottom of the ocean with them in a naval war,and so would the japanese...
@ Victor. What happend to the German POW`s??? only 10% of them came back during 1955 (10 years after the war) what happend to the rest?? i tell you what happend:Germany gave fair treatment to U.S and U.K POW`s but what did the russians do, they slowly Murdered thousands of German soldiers...even after the war the russians keept killing them...a photograph was found showing houndreds of Totenkopf members with cut throats...Germany apologized for what they did...Russia never did.
@ Paimmon red army and brave!!! HAHA good one during 1942-1943 they where surrendering on all fronts WITHOUT a fight!! and one more thing, Germany was fighting a two front War!! if Germany only had to fight at one front the Red Army would have been crushed by late 1944...and the world would have been a better place...and Victor stop reading those over gloryfied Russian history books (if you can read that is)nothing but Bullshit in them.
and the americans had a better army than the germans ;)
yugoslav partisans were better then the germans...
japan was better then the germans....im not sayong that the german army was a load of shit,actualy it was very organized,and very well equipt,but they were not the best,if the were then they wouldnt loose...
WTF!! paimmon the Japanese had the weakest tanks during WWII the U.S had a lot of weak tanks as well (M4 Sherman), The Yogoslavians had NOTHING at that time NOTHING!!!!! and Germany lost because it was outnumbered 50,000 U.S tanks and 50,000 russian tanks vs about 20,000 German Panzers. Oh and Germany also had the best infantery weapons
Look at those bigots run
allrightbrain 1 year ago
Those days marked the end of an evil regime.
Scitech101 1 year ago
-Which is pathetic.
mastercheff1216 1 year ago
As an Englishmen I am Fond of the German people and it PISSES ME OFF knowing that everyday they have to wake watching a fucking history documentary about the "evil" Germans, BULLSHIT the Japanese committed much more war crimes than the Germans, the Germans had sympathy for the people, the Japanese killed millions of innocent raped hundreds of thousands. The poor German sods just can't escape it, there are narrow minded people in this world that will say "I don't like German people their nazies"
mastercheff1216 1 year ago
LOL Big Boss father was actualy a german soldeir at battle of Berlin xD
ImperialGuard9001 2 years ago
everyone deserve to die^^.
topazians 2 years ago
meine ehre heisst treue, get with it or perish
knoske 2 years ago
i think the nazist dersved to be putted in the same champs as the jews i just think that the germans should be lucky to still being alive today :S
kalkunkage1 2 years ago
They're more lucky to be a country still rather than alive... With how controlling Russia was over East Germany, post-war.
katzejaeger 2 years ago
It's not the Germans fault as a people that the holocaust happened. Many Germans were against it actually. It was those in power that forced it on everybody. I've learned to distinguish Germans from Nazis. The Nazis where a minority of Germans that misled a whole people. AS far as what they deserve the Nazis got what they deserved in 1945 and in the time afterward. Justice was carried out.
spiritman1981 2 years ago
Well I dont know if thats truth it can be so but most of german people were loyal to Hitler until his dead is actualy amazing how loyal they were justice was in no any carried out many peoples actualy suffer under Allied Boot not just germans I am talked about batls hungarians etc so justice of WWII is victor justice
ImperialGuard9001 2 years ago
In that case soviets shouldnt deserved to live because for what they did to Asian and European Nations milions killed you think thats different?
Or americans for they did to native americans
Or british for they did to africans indians or other peoples man human nature is full of massacres germans werent so different from other sides of WWII actualy the soviets made more war crimes than germans
ImperialGuard9001 2 years ago
Im Russian but born in Denmark and not to defend my people but: The Soviet Union would never had comitted thoose crimes if it weren`t for the Germans dont get me wrong russia and russians are a peacefull people i know that you think Russians and Russia is a stupid country who ruined other lifes and so we did but we just had some pritty bad leaders but never say that Soviet Union deserve to die Soviets might be the reason you live :)
kalkunkage1 2 years ago
Germans should be lucky to be alive?
Read a book, Stalin killed 3 Times as many people as Hitler, so 18 Million and more. The KGB were worse than Nazis.
BundeswehrBlitz 2 years ago
yearh but they killed their own people... something else i mean the german people
kalkunkage1 2 years ago
Read you anothers (Volgokonov, Zemskov, etc), Stalin killed less than 10 million, Hitler 6 million jews, 500 000 gipsyes, more than 3 millions soviets POW, more than 10 millions soviet civilians and so on...
Nevsly 2 years ago
scitec101 you say war is heroic, you have obviously not been to one then have you. there is nothing heroic about war, just long periods of bitter boredom interrupted with short periods of intense terror,
dadswizz 2 years ago
The Germans could have held out for weeks longer if Hitler hadn't sent those panzer divisions to Budapest.
breezeman199 2 years ago
The Germans fought with ferocity like they had never known. Nevertheless, Soviet overcame Nazi, and the capital of the Tyrant was destroyed.
it should be noted that the Western Allies LET Russia reach berlin first.
Scitech101 2 years ago
"the capital of the Tyrant was destroyed."
Think of it at the level where it should really count - millions died needlessly. THEY were destroyed. Glorious victories only happen in video games.
"The tyrant" barely suffered at all and got to take the easy way out.
tttar 2 years ago
3 of the four tyrants of the world were destroyed in that war. Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirehito.
Scitech101 2 years ago
one wasn't, Stalin, the worst of them all
Finnishbastard 2 years ago
the 4th tyrant was the U.S but they will destroy themself!
TheCommanderOfMusac 2 years ago
Only to be replaced by another tyrant, which continued until 1990.
UAIED 2 years ago
I'm sure you'll do a great job of it, but you might consider using music that sounds less "electrifying".
It'd be great for a wargame opening sequence, but real war is nothing to get enthusiastic about .
BTW, from where are you getting these "hours" of footage to work with? Is this stuff all online, now?
tttar 3 years ago
I disagree with your first statement. Yes, war is horrible, but you also must remember that with the exeption of Stalin, this was a war by Democracy (even Russia became democratic eventually) and the nazi war machine. This battle was the final clash between the two.
World War 2 is large enough to be both horrible and heroic.
Scitech101 2 years ago
Scitech101, most of the people that died had no choice in which side they took. It was just an accident of birth.
Even at the state level, I don't even see it (or most wars) as good vs. evil. It was more like the greater evils (the Axis) vs the lesser evils (Western Allies) and the greatest evil (USSR).
See what Wiki has to say about Operation Keelhaul. That's nothing to be proud of.
The war between Germany and the West shouldn't have even happened.
tttar 2 years ago
We know in retrospect that A. The Nazis planned on killing of every last Jew. B. Russia would EVENTUALLY become democratic C. The Iron Curtian did not contain all of Europe. and D. If Hitler had won, facism would be far more prominent in the world.
Both Stalin and Hitler were meglomaniacs. However, Stalin was sane. Hitler was not. That adds to it.
Scitech101 2 years ago
Satlins sanity can be questioned too, it was common knowledge that he was paranoid and saw conspiracies everywhere
Finnishbastard 2 years ago
Coming soon? There is a lot of sequence in that video that had nothing to do with the Battle of Berlin.
Shindler39 3 years ago
i like the music
UnderArmor04 3 years ago
Eisenhower deathcamp ( The last dirt story of WW2 , and the last Holocaust of the germans people ) : 1.7 million germans soldiers and + 5 million civilian died by starvation or dehydration in Rhine ( Germany ).
In 1945 , few months before, the world larggest bomber formation in the entire world history , over 3.000 bomber drop 2 millions tons of bomb over Dresden killed more 600,000 Germans people burned at over 1500 C°
Jimderkaisser 3 years ago
"God...i hate germans" -Eisenhower- On a letter for his wife in 1944
"How blaze to germany" -Churchill- Before Dresden 1945
"Nie wieder Deutschland" That mean "Never again Germany" jew shout that everyday,every years. Werde aktiv , Deutschland Frei!
Jimderkaisser 3 years ago
Russians raped over 2 million Berlin women during the ww2.
solitarity25 3 years ago
germans raped 10 million soviet women
whats your point?
fokktamer 3 years ago
germans raped 10 million soviet women
whats your point?
fokktamer 3 years ago 2
liar, its the other way, russians raped 10 milion german women
EdgarEmigholz 3 years ago
i know, that was edgaremigholz's statement and he just left it like that.
i replied 'and germans raped 10 million soviet women whats your point'
now i must ask you solitarity25, what is your point?
are you trying to say the soviets were worse than the germans?, because they werent, the germans wanted to enslave the slavs.
Their ideologies were equally bad in a brutal war
JUST AS BAD
fokktamer 3 years ago
Well , fokktamer i'm not saying that one was worse than the other, it is just disturbing to me that Stalin killed a lot more than Adolf but his crimes are never seen cause he was the **Saver** of the the Europe. that's my point.
You should watch the movie *The Soviet Story*
solitarity25 3 years ago
noone says he was the saviour of europe!!
he was just as bad as hitler
loads of people aknowledge that
now whats your point you nazi
fokktamer 3 years ago
fokktamer *noone says he was the saviour of europe* have you ever read any of communist written war history books* Communists saved the world . and tell me how can an army of 250000 men rape 10 million it means 40 woman for a soldier ?? PS i'm not a Nazi . And my point is that your nr. 10 million is wrong and
you talk of the Germans as a rapist nation while leaving out that the communists where such as bad. Panimajesh? Turak.
solitarity25 3 years ago
the german army was 250,000?
wtf are youy raging at?
at operation barbarossa they had 3 million men
germany and european allies numbered around 12 million
so yes 10 million soviet women in 41-45
10 million fact
and no communists did not save the world
i wish they had though
fokktamer 3 years ago 2
Fokktamer :and no communists did not save the world
i wish they had though -seems you're a communist. But really you seem to be interested in the ww2 You should watch the movie *The Soviet Story* it was released a month ago.
really take a look at it. it will lighten you.
solitarity25 3 years ago
im socialist and i know some things about world war 2
my country wasnt involved so i like to think i am unbiased
you on the other hane were germany's allies
so i would ask questions based on that.
fokktamer 3 years ago
Take a look at *The Soviet Story* it's up here in youtube too
solitarity25 3 years ago 2
"Soviet Story" is a propaganda pamphlet made by nostalgic fascists from Estonia.
lape2002 3 years ago
it's made in latvia and it's based on true facts. but i agree mostly the end is propaganda but still the movie is based on facts whit human witnesses who are still alive and who saw the horrible deeds whit their own eyes.
solitarity25 3 years ago
are you an complete idiot? :D you have ever read at least one historical book or any historical document? :D
Bonkajs 3 years ago
haha, why not, you can find me in the History Channel forum under Lapain nickname. I would be glad if you to join us in our discussions ;D.
lape2002 3 years ago
+ all of the countries that the soviets occupied
the soviet law was that the farmers who had more than few cows and too much land were sent to Siberia , school teacher's , everyone who was a threat to the soviet union or who was thinking like a democrat was sent to starve in Siberia. try argue that.
solitarity25 3 years ago
whats your point
fokktamer 3 years ago
and whats your point?
you trying to say 1 is worse than the other?
because you are not even trying to argue
fokktamer 3 years ago
azazel87, excellent video!
abd about the battle of berlin, do you have other video? This video is my predilete
erialdojr 3 years ago
I think the same thing is going to happen on washington....
pedrocoo 4 years ago
Rape and slaughter are a part of war. It doesn't matter, such behavior has occurred in warfare ever since its conception. The genocide of the natives by the Israelites, the Mongol literal extermination of resistance, the countless swabs over religion, wiping out cultures over land, I could go on for a life time just giving examples, No country, race, ethnicity, family is free from the blood of billions, carved into our history, we all are proud descendants of murderers, thieves and rapists.
HOApocalypse 4 years ago 3
Heil Fallschirmjaeger!!
Rest in Peace Otto Skorzeny
fallschirmjaeger34 4 years ago
Anthony Beevor's "Berlin 1945".
timo1595 4 years ago
The blame lies partly with poor discipline and alcohol. The curious attitude to sex in Stalin's Russia also played a part. In the regime's attempt to "deindividualize" the citizen, sexuality was suppressed—only to explode in primitive and violent forms. Yet Beevor's general conclusion is bleaker still. "[The mass rapes] tend to suggest that there is a dark area of male sexuality which can emerge all too easily in war where there are no social or disciplinary restraints," he writes.
timo1595 4 years ago 2
Looting and random killings were commonplace. And so was rape. In the closing months of the war and its immediate aftermath, at least 2 million German women were victims. In Berlin, the figure may have topped 100,000. According to a doctor cited by Beevor, as many as 10,000 died as a result, mostly by suicide.
timo1595 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
To be sure, some front-line units heeded orders and showed restraint, but many behaved with indiscriminate brutality. Even Russian and Jewish women, freed from labor or concentration camps, were raped. At one maternity clinic, victims included nuns, pregnant women and mothers who have just given birth. Beevor reckons a "substantial minority" were gang-raped.
timo1595 4 years ago
Red army raped at least 2 million german women and girls.The rapes had begun as soon as the Red Army entered East Prussia and Silesia in 1944. In many towns and villages every female, aged from 10 to 80, was raped. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Nobel laureate who was then a young officer, described the horror in his narrative poem Prussian Nights: "The little daughter's on the mattress,/Dead. How many have been on it/A platoon, a company perhaps?"
timo1595 4 years ago
Well, the same could be said about the German SS in the Soviet Union. The rape, pillage and looting was wide spread when the Russians entered East Prussia, but their wrath was somewhat justified. You cannot expect the good behavior from the Russian front line troopers, especially when many of them were former prisoners.
Check the Warsaw uprising brutally supressed by the SS they were not any better than the Russians.
nick76dune 4 years ago
Did you ever read about what the Soviets did to their own who were pow's in germany. In my eyes the raping and pillaging the soviets did made them just as bad as the German SS.
azazel87 4 years ago
Yes I am well aware of the treatment of the POWs on both sides. By the end of the war there were almost no native Germans left in the SS. The Russians treated "traitors" even worse.
In that conflict both sides had committed numerous atrocities.The first village the German SS entered in Ukraine reports of them bashing babies against stones, same thing reported in 640 B.C. advancement of the Babylonians, this never stops and is just part of human nature, massacres have no national origin.
nick76dune 4 years ago
the russia was not better the germans have the kz the russians gulack
nasenweich 4 years ago
yes, and the Nazis were honourable, brave and gallant. YManthos, you fucking moron, what the hell is wrong with you? If you don't know anything, then don't let others see it by putting comments like yours on the web.
Elegabalus 4 years ago
The Soviet soldies, where rapists and war criminals.
manthos1972 4 years ago
"Fuck this music sucks"
Er no, it's good. It's by Harry Gregson Williams, a famous composer for movies in the U.S.
AznInsurrection777 4 years ago
yay canada lol XD
koolKaid 4 years ago
Fuck this music sucks 9from (XTCS)...Cs EVERYWHERE!? Cs has not got a thing with WWII
Deltaman606 4 years ago
This is an historical fact:
Hitler was moron.
Russia win.
By!
Vihor189 4 years ago
Fucking ivans...too bad the ghettos were overloaded with jews to add ivans to as well!
korn6499 4 years ago 2
A lot of Russians were fighting against Soviets - they were betrayed by americans and brits when they send them to Stalin! with their families they were all killed by soviets.
achizov 4 years ago
Fuck Allis Germany was the best in all...ok the taktik was bad^^
Aragornking2 4 years ago
Stalin helped weaken SSSR like no other! Imagine its power if this madman was stopped by Lenin, as it was suppossed to be! What USandA?
Kamenolom 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Why dont i see the USA flag over the reichstag? i think the video is a fake.
pawnp4 4 years ago
Stalin was the most horrible dictator on Earth
jfranlima 4 years ago 2
I agree he killed 20 million civilians that is a huge number and his fellow party members and those responsible for that crime never got punished. And the worst thing is that those russian concentration camps aka "gulags" are still in use today.
Held225 4 years ago
Yes, i agree with you. They have today a lots of concentration camps. If you see, the closed regimes, without freedom are all comunists. But the media only talk about Guantanamo or Abu Grhaib... It`s our world my friend. But today we only have comunists dictators.
jfranlima 4 years ago
stalin was a tritor of communism....remember trotsky,kamenev ,zinovev,bukharin and many other revolutioners who where killed beacuse they where against stalins madness....not to mention how much he weakened the proletariat movement...
paimmon 4 years ago 2
Hitler was worse than Stalin.
zabijnabij 4 years ago
MGS IS THE BEST GAME EVER MADE
DonAhid 4 years ago
but resistance was large and so the germans had no alternative....
paimmon 4 years ago
azazel87, how's it going?
Galgalid 4 years ago
Mein opa war auch bei der rotten armee. Die sollen vergast verbrant und erchossen werden scheis Deutschenscweine! Lang lebe Russland
boks81 4 years ago
Mein opa war auch bei der rotten armee. Die sollen vergast verbrant und erchossen werden scheis Deutschenscweine! Lang lebe Russland
boks81 4 years ago
how many of you actually know the meaning of comunism and fascism or did your countrys fill yer head full of lies and propoganda, comunism is the idea of the gov. controling companies ect. fascism is the belief of the gov. over people, meaning people are worthles and they should die for there country
fight2livorliv2die 4 years ago
too*
BolshevikSam 4 years ago
thats a cool video whats the songs name and were can I download it. message me and tell thanks.
Also my Unkle was in WW ll but im not sure if he was in the battle of berlin.
caseclosed12 4 years ago
the song is the main theme from the video game Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater . Think you can get the soundtrack for it in most usual music store
yitih 4 years ago
you can hear the full song at: watch?v=rNVCD1dsnJI
yitih 4 years ago
wermacht rulez
xawieras2 4 years ago
rather read then red! Erinner dich an die gefallenen kameraden!!! they fought for us...to protect Germany and Scandinavia.
Bayer20 4 years ago
damn straight!
sens45 4 years ago
What the f##k the Germans were they doing in the USSR killing millions of civilians? Protecting Scandinavia? I am glad the Nazis got their due...
steppenwolf1945 4 years ago
KNowing the Germans lost...I would have fought for the Germans. I can not stand Communism. HEIL!
Bayer20 4 years ago
a fascist future you mean? right.
youkiaruuku 4 years ago
With no other interference from the west, Germany would have mopped up the reds in short order And in doing this would have dealt communism and capitalism a savage blow To bad it did not turn out, the world today would have a much brighter future
hellspawn1488 4 years ago
"the world today would have a much brighter future" well we know your not to bright!
BolshevikSam 4 years ago
lol metal gear solid... nice. you're the man for making all of these videos by the way.
ClarityReview 4 years ago
Are those guys carrying german weapons? i think the soviets musta done some pillage before they get to berlin...
eaglewaiter 4 years ago
And you know about Gen. Patton right? you know what he wanted to do?? he wanted the high command to give the Germans back their weapons and invade russia together... America and the U.K knew that Germany was more civilized than the countrys east and SE of Germany ,so how do you explain that? if the Germans are such monsters like you say they are than why did the allied think of Germany more civilized than the east??
Held225 4 years ago
In socio-cultural terms, Germany is way closer to Western civilization than was USSR, then of course most western politicians viewed Russians as barbarians. Nazi state was the most terrible without question, that silly idea of Patton to ally with the devil would have cost the West dearly, as the Russians weren't that defenseless.
lape2002 4 years ago
so damn true!
sens45 4 years ago
Did you know that the Soviet pilots had rather easy time destroying the American planes over North Korea (flying among the Korean pilots)? Do you really think the Americans are better fighters than the Germans?
steppenwolf1945 4 years ago 2
the ustashe during the war killed hundreds of thousand s of serbs,jews,gypsies....the cehtnics were killin everyone in their way....the illiterate partisans were actually more cilivilized then the nazis....they never shot prisoners...unless their was a resaon for it....and again i say the ones who commited crimes were punished....after the war toguh the executinos strted andmostly the soldiers got the bullet
paimmon 4 years ago
btw the chetnics used to dress like partisans and then burned villages so the people would blame partisans
paimmon 4 years ago
Anyways...Fact is without a secound front Germany would have Won the war...End of discussion...Partisans have not a chance to win a war,all they do is spread terror...and since Germany would have won the war at the eastern front by 1944 i dont see what you are arguing about
Held225 4 years ago
they wouldnt have won....do you know what is the size of the whole ussr??the were freezing to death in the european part uf russia...wait till the got to siberia...
second...on what grounds do you say the partisans spread terror...the germans spread more terror then any of the partisan movements in ww2....
paimmon 4 years ago
Watch the HISTORY CHANNEL!! And do you know how close the German army came to Moscow?? very very close and by 1944 Moscow would have been taken and the war would have been over...since the Govt. is located in the Capital.Well the Partisans were Communists and did not care about their own people since they killed their own just because they helped some German Soldiers.And Germany was Never interested in Siberia, the Japanese wanted that General area.
Held225 4 years ago
so did the germans....they shot their commanders for failurs just like the soviets...raped,murdered....the partisans never did those things....the fate of all of the country was in risk...they didnt care about their people? you mean the people that war assisting the invaders?? do you know what kind of a genocide would happen if the chetnics came to power,or if the ustashe managed somehow to stay????
paimmon 4 years ago
and if they did take the capital the goverment would not have been there...most gov.officials left,but stalin stayed and so did the high command...they would probably leave if the germans came to close...they were not stupid...and they perhaps would not have won since by 1944 they were on the retreat befor d-day...
paimmon 4 years ago
wake up!!! i dont know in what world you live in but ALL you just said can be disproven. All i say is based on fact and not fiction like yours, "Partisans never executed anybody".... you are pathetic if you really believe that
Held225 4 years ago 2
What about Hsitory channel? Where does it say that the Soviets were supposed to loose to Germany? Without the second front the USSR managed to kick the Germans out of Moscow gates, kick their ass in Stalingrad and then destroy their best of the best armor in Kursk. How about that?
direwolf88 4 years ago
hahaha absolute bullshit. the only reason the Germans killed any1 was because of the partisans who continously killed their soldiers. if some1 other than the fucking commies killed my teammates Id burn their village to the ground too. and Id be fuckin pissed if the commies shot my teammates too
sens45 4 years ago
well,well....what the fuck where their teammates doing in the country of the commies in the first fucking place???
they fought for their freedom against the german,and italian invaders (hungarian and bulgarian too)and they had the right to kill them all.... SMRT FASIZMU-SLOBODA NARODU
paimmon 4 years ago
If Germany wouldn't have invaded russia than russia would have invaded ALL of Europe. You see Germany had a very good reason to invade russia.
Held225 4 years ago 2
what good reason did they have to massacre milions of people in russia? and not only russia....
paimmon 4 years ago
haha dude your beloved Stalin killed 20 million of his own people LOL. Germany killed 10 million russian SOLDIERS Stalin killed 10 million more than the German army killed.But you never saw that in Nurenburg.
Held225 4 years ago
who said i love stalin?? :S
i never said i aprooved stalin and his murders....
but we wherent talking about stalin,we where talking about the germans in russia....
paimmon 4 years ago
ja but the point is that without Stalin there wouldn't have been any massacres in russia.
Held225 4 years ago
how do u mean there wouldnt been massacres....russia is a slavic country....slavs are a lower race as the aryans say....it dosent matter is stalin would have attacked germany cause either way hitler would attack russia,and there would be not that many massacres but they would enslave the whole people....
paimmon 4 years ago
no not just Germany russia was planing to take all of Europe. And those massacres were done by russian soldiers, they would put on German uniform and than take pictures of them killing thousands. there is a lot of evidence that proves this. And most russian POWs were send to farms... and believe it or not but they liked working on a farm a lot more than living in russia.
Held225 4 years ago
and we have stalin to thank that....but there is a fact that germans did commit massacres in a foreign land(s) and that maybe understood but not justified...
paimmon 4 years ago
but there was no real second front in Europe till 1943 by the time of Kursk battle, the tide was red already. Maybe you mean the battle of the Atlantic ;)?
lape2002 4 years ago
There is NO way the russians could have won the war. The russians only won at Kursk because they outnumbered german tanks 10 to 1 and even than russia almost lost that battle. If you look at the the casualty rates you will see that the red army lost 10 man for every german. And the red army may have won some battles during 1943 but if it wasnt for that 2nd front in 1944 or the DAK germany would have stopped the russian advance by about early/mid 1944.
Held225 4 years ago
What do u americans have against russian acheivements?? Your numbers are far from reality, in some areas like Prokhorovka, Soviet tanks merely outnumbered the germans 4:1 and sure almost lost the battle. In most areas the ratios were between 1.7 and 2.8 to 1. The Italian and Normandy fronts barely carried 54 division but 142 were STILL on the Ost front and still op.Bagration was carried out BEFORE D-Day! Go read David Glantz or G.Krivosheev instead of providing garbage.
lape2002 4 years ago
What russian achievements? there arent any. You do know that the russians gloryfied 95% of WWII history in their books right? and when ever the ratio was 5 russians vs 1 german, Germany would still win. The ONLY reason russia managed to stop the german advance was because of the WINTER!! and its true Germany lost about 2 million soldiers while russia lost 11 million.
Held225 4 years ago
Oh and one more thing, you do know that most King Tigers where used during the Ardennes offensive right? if Germany would have used that offensive against russia Germany would have been in Moscow by early 1945 maybe even sooner.If that offensive was so devastating to American troops just imagine what it could have done to a bunch of uneducated russians. LOL.
Held225 4 years ago
so devastating?? are u kidding Nazi-fanboy? The Ardennes offensive was all but successful, few US divisions were routed but the 101st held against the Waffen SS onslaughts, most german tanks got overextended to their dismal fuel consumption and reliability limits. What really makes you think the Germans would have had better luck against the much more battle-hardened Red Army??? Please don't reply with some fantasy jerk-off crap, I really feel I'm discussing with the village idiot.
lape2002 4 years ago
you sound like the villiage idiot here, the ardense offensive failed due to lack of air cover for german troops after the weather cleared, the tanks ran out of fuel due to germany was short of fuel at this time in the war. the german troops in the east were also battle hardened, better trained, had better weapons also
mcblob 3 years ago
true only thing is the fucking yanks were barely any better trained the the goddamn commie shits. the only reason the Ardennes offensive failed was because the Germans were running out of gas and the weather cleared up so that u.s planes could bomb the tigers and king tigers :(
sens45 4 years ago
Again garbage from this guy.Everybody glorifies war, sure Soviets did more than anybody, they won the war right! The Germans last victory in Ostfront was in Kharkov 1943, then they LOST in SUMMER mostly! Russian acheivements I'll give you some : Transsiberian railway, St-Petersburg, Napoleon's defeat, first man to space, the final crush of Nazi bastards like u!
lape2002 4 years ago
absolutely correct. hell if I saw my friend next to me die at the hand of a fucking commie partisan Id burn their whole fucking village to the ground too!
sens45 4 years ago
And BTW ALL Books made by russians and other cummunist countrys are not reliable....they ALWAYS overgloryfie their History...the only whay to find out the truth is to talk to a German veteran who was there or talk to a citizen... Partisans always make stuff up
Held225 4 years ago
if they do,then my grandpas make stuff up??
you see i have to look of both the partisan and the qisling side of the war...my grandpa was a domobran and saw everything the partisans did after the war...went trough camps and everything...only ustshe soldiers were killed,the domobrans not...while my other granpa was in the partisans...
paimmon 4 years ago
Gosh... go read Krivosheyev or Kazhanov, ah never mind, try David Glantz, US Army's foremost expert on Eastern Front, he will change your mind on how to view the barbaric and uncompetent Red Army ;).
lape2002 4 years ago
And those 100,000 troops (according to you) were probably send in to capture Yugoslavia not to fight those terrorist...and partisans usually dont have ANY structure and since 90% of them were civilians your statment about them as being well trained is WRONG again the only reason Germans had a hard time fighting them is very simple...They keept runing and Hiding
Held225 4 years ago
And no the russian airfoce was just as bad. And About the German Navy Germany had the best U-boots in the world!! and BTW Japan was Germanys Allied during WWII...every one knows that (somebody didnt do his research) and the U.S navy was kinda out of date due to the depression.
Held225 4 years ago
The VVS (Soviet air force) evolved during the conflict from a decimated organisation to a widely mobile tactital weapon with superb airplanes and many skillful pilots trained on the field of battle. The US Navy you're talking about is probably the pre-1941 one, fron 1942 onwards, the USN was to become the biggest, most modern and powerful naval arm in the world.
lape2002 4 years ago
The VVS (Soviet air force) evolved during the conflict from a decimated organisation to a widely mobile tactital weapon with superb airplanes and many skillful pilots trained on the field of battle. The US Navy you're talking about is probably the pre-1941 one, fron 1942 onwards, the USN was to become the biggest, most modern and powerful naval arm in the world.
lape2002 4 years ago
And i know what your thinking "if russian armor sucked so bad why did Germany lose"...The Germans were outnumbered!!!! 50,000 T34 tanks alone 10,000 T34/85 and thats just two types Germany only had 20,000 (All tanks) and split that number in Half since Germany was fighting a two front war...like i said before without a secound front Germany would have won by the end of 1944 thats a fact!
Held225 4 years ago
you obviusly dont know the situation in yugoslavia....did you hear of jasenovac?? gradiska stara?? read about it...the yugoslavs were mostly illiterate,and were mentaly on the level of the times when they fought the turks so you cant look at them on the same level you see the soviets or the germans etc.chetnics,ustashe,belogardists and many others who allied themself with the germans who were randomly killing people in th streets beacuse someone stole medicine for the partisans...
paimmon 4 years ago
thhose were the ones who killed their people...so revenge came ofcourse it did...but less then what the germans did...if they killed someone for giving medicine to a german soldier it was beacuse he was helping tha nazis and harming the partisans....people who were killed were spyes,and soldiers of the qisling regimes....not civilians
paimmon 4 years ago
What are the terrorist doing in the Middle east right now?? if a middle eastern family helps a U.S Soldier they will probably get killed by the terrorists the Partisans are just like them dont you see that??? Germans were and are very cicilized people Russia,and Partisans are the exact opposide
Held225 4 years ago
i told you you cannot look at the illiterate yugoslavs the same way you see the germans...
and those cases of killing civilians were very rare...and if you think that the ones who did those crimes were not punished,then you are wrong...the partisans had very strict rules,and were very disciplined until the force started to grow massively at the end of the war....then it was harder to oversee them all,but again the ones who did crimes were punished...during or after the war...
paimmon 4 years ago
"split that number in half since Germany was fighting a two front war" : The Eastern front cost the Germans over 70% of their casualties, Fact! Actual kill-loss ratio was approx. 2:1 in favor of Axis, don't deny that by 1944 Soviet High Command was a very competent force, by 1945, Red Army was as or more efficient than Wehrmacht of 1940.
lape2002 4 years ago
general ludorf luters said in his final report after the plan schwarz that the so called communist rebels (terrorists as you call them) were very organized,skillfuly led and were fighting with unbelievable high combat morale...german troops rather wanted to go to the eastern front then to yuogoslavia....and their partisans held the firt free territory in ocupied europe...
paimmon 4 years ago
Where do you get all that Bullshit from??? your so beloved yoguslavian terrorists sometimes even killed their own people for giving aid to wounded German troops. they are scum and russian had THE worst tanks ever T34 weak armor weak gun, T35/85 weak armor,IS1 wrong angeld armor (a Pzfaust could have destroyed it)IS2 war ended before effective use, IS3 same as IS2
Held225 4 years ago
'T34 weak armor weak gun, T35/85 weak armor,IS1 wrong angeld armor (a Pzfaust could have destroyed it)IS2 war ended before effective use'
You're a complete idiot
lape2002 4 years ago
And yes the T34/76 had a weak hull and turret armour(45mm) and a weak gun, T34/85 had the same hull armour but improved turret armour and a stronger gun, the IS 1 had armour that was wrongly angeld, a soldier managed to destroy one with a PZ faust. Why do you think they made a IS 2 tank hu? you see it is you who is a complete idiot!!
Held225 4 years ago
More crap from the village idiot; ok the 76 had weak hull & turret armor, so weak the 37mm and 50mm guns of the Panzer III & IV were unable to inflict any significant damage to it, hence the appearance of later Tigers and Panthers (which was a sort of german T-34). T-34/85 used a bigger/longer gun to deal with this new threat. The IS-1/KV-85 never made it to full-scale production, Guderiam himself forbade the use of Kingtigers and Panthers against IS-2 after Sandomierz incident in August 44.
lape2002 4 years ago
Hmm i knew you would pull the "you are a Nazi card" thats really pathetic. Well you do know that PZ III had no big problem with the T34 right however germany needed a stronger Panzer to destroy those T34 more effectively and thats how the Panzer IV came to be. The Tiger I was build to destroy the T34/85 and later those IS 2 tanks. And one King Tiger managed to keep an entire Red scum tank platoon away from a german supply depo.The ONLY thing a King Tiger had to fear were rockets from U.S planes.
Held225 4 years ago
OK i was just re reading the battle of latvia. A single Tiger I destroyed 17 JS 2 tanks and 5 T34's.... and that Tiger I survived that battle in fact only 3 Tiger I were lost and the Red scum army lost 30 JS2 and around 50 T34's that battle took place during 1944 and during this battle the red scum had to retreat!!! that just proves my theory if Germany would have had all its military at the eastern front the red scum would have lost
Held225 4 years ago
And i also noticed you said "the 30mm&50mm guns of the Panzer3-4..." WOW you are so stupid!! the PanzerIII had a 50mm and the PanzerIV had a 75mm gun.Its Also very sickening that there are some people (lape2002) who support someone who killed more civilians than Hitler.20 million more to be exact.
Held225 4 years ago
absolutely!
sens45 4 years ago
hahaha fuckin rights. noone can beat German weapons and vehicles
sens45 4 years ago
Actually, you lost. Stupid nazi.
zabijnabij 4 years ago
the american m1,and soviet mosin-nagant rifles were better then the german kar 98....but german machine guns were better...
the soviets had the best artillery in the world...german 88 mm flak guns were only better then soviet artillery...on the field the americans tacticaly outplayed the germans by far...
paimmon 4 years ago
cheers ;)
paimmon 4 years ago
Please tell me you do know that modern military tactics came from the germans, here these are the things Germany was BEST at than any other nation: Tactics, Equipment, Training, Supply, quality of material, Airforce,Ground units and Navy. things Germany was BAD at: lack of building material and gasoline, and thats it.
Held225 4 years ago
And the yoguslavien partisans didnt win at all, they were terrorists and there was no such thing as 5 offensives against them, Germany only send in a small Waffen SS unit to clean up. After a Waffen SS attack some of those terrorists ran away and stayed hidden till the end of the war....thats the truth deal with it.
Held225 4 years ago
o really....then why did the send 140 000 troops in the first phase of plan weiss...and 127 000 in the ofeesnive after???why did the nubmer of the partisans rose from day to day? why did the kill 50 people for every wounded and 100 for every killed soldier...beacuse they couldnt fight them...why?beacuse they fought a guerilla war and every ofefensive they made against them was a failure...hitler himself was pissed beacuse they couldnt capturetito...
paimmon 4 years ago
the soviets had better airforce and armour....
training...prehaps,but again troops of other countries had far better troops then the germans....supply?? it was the lack of supplies in russia that forced them to a halt....navy?? the navy was their weakest spot...the americans would clean the bottom of the ocean with them in a naval war,and so would the japanese...
paimmon 4 years ago
@ Victor. What happend to the German POW`s??? only 10% of them came back during 1955 (10 years after the war) what happend to the rest?? i tell you what happend:Germany gave fair treatment to U.S and U.K POW`s but what did the russians do, they slowly Murdered thousands of German soldiers...even after the war the russians keept killing them...a photograph was found showing houndreds of Totenkopf members with cut throats...Germany apologized for what they did...Russia never did.
Held225 4 years ago
@ Paimmon red army and brave!!! HAHA good one during 1942-1943 they where surrendering on all fronts WITHOUT a fight!! and one more thing, Germany was fighting a two front War!! if Germany only had to fight at one front the Red Army would have been crushed by late 1944...and the world would have been a better place...and Victor stop reading those over gloryfied Russian history books (if you can read that is)nothing but Bullshit in them.
Held225 4 years ago
well so was germany in 1945 ;)
and the americans had a better army than the germans ;)
yugoslav partisans were better then the germans...
japan was better then the germans....im not sayong that the german army was a load of shit,actualy it was very organized,and very well equipt,but they were not the best,if the were then they wouldnt loose...
paimmon 4 years ago
You are totally wrong, the German Amry was the best amry in the world at that time, they were ahead in almost everything in military technology.
azazel87 4 years ago
WTF!! paimmon the Japanese had the weakest tanks during WWII the U.S had a lot of weak tanks as well (M4 Sherman), The Yogoslavians had NOTHING at that time NOTHING!!!!! and Germany lost because it was outnumbered 50,000 U.S tanks and 50,000 russian tanks vs about 20,000 German Panzers. Oh and Germany also had the best infantery weapons
Held225 4 years ago