shure - the mormons are very league. " your american god lives at a planet comes home and behave s with ? virgins. missouri is the base and ....." shure mormons are the best america developed- beside apple, the bug, civil rights ...
i am curious when u guys start to shoot this nonsense-propaganda
I think this guy just wanted to make trouble. I t was clear that the security staff attempted to handle the siruarion as calmly as they could, and should. I think this guy was looking to start trouble and no doubt wanted to set it up for a payday.
dude doesn't even have a shirt on? looks like a pretty reasonable arrest. dudes asked to leave private property. dudes didn't. dudes were escorted away. if you really want to great way to protest the lds faith, you have to...wait...nevermind...i'll keep it to myself.
@shlomo119 Ok? Saying all mormons dont have a good IQ is very stupid! Have you heard of BYU!? I hate BYU but dude that school has ivy league standards
sweetie. first i am straight - i have to disappoint you. second the way of dialectic obviously did not appear in your country. third. slowly i understand why we europeans wanted to get rid of you discusting freaks. and finally. there is no truth get used to it. what u call truth is fiction- sometimes things are a bit more tricky ... silly farmer. keep with your potatos.
watch your manners mormon! i said its fiction. i am shure there is a truth but nobody, specialy not you have an idea of it. but with an IQ of 65, that allowe you to work with mules and potatos, you cant understand the philosophical backround in it. so go back to your church and plug the cross in your bud.
you write just religious nonsense.truth is fiction of a selfjustify rules. i think you found your system, you little farmer LOL modesty ... do you have heart of this term. thats one word your religion pretend to be based on. so you damage the rules you gave yourself - how wiered is that. GET RID OF IT - THERE IS NO TRUTH, BOY!
wow christian ethics is proofed, couple daysago a sunni told me that islam ethics is proofed and the only truth ;-) you really believe there is something like "truth" ;-) ... well stay in the medieval as your cult.
haaaaaha ...judgment day wow ;-) you really believe in this stuff right? did your priest rape you when you were a schoolboy or is your wive sick of your small dick, that you are so hardcore? one question by the way, who do you mean all the time with YOU? do you have probably a little paranoia? i have heard thats a sideproblem of religions, but its treatable too. so dont despair - there is HOPE!
well the only person i know wich have aids is an italian women and her 3 years old daughter. good that you can make fun over this. (thats the famous christian charity, right?)but anyway. you bore me. go back to the field and take care of the potatoes, or whatever else you do so. ps: hell is a fake to prohibit everything sensual. but that you will never understand.
shure, all gays rape little boys. specially that gays that like older men ;-) do you really beliefe what you wrote or are you just on meth? what do you take care of other peoples way of live? you claim tolerance and act like a german fascist past ´33. (ps: i said that YOUR religion is a killing cult and that YOU should be punished.probably you should learn to read first and learn to realise that other people use ironie to tease you. goodness you´r a blind farmer and worst than a taliban)
WOW you seem well informed. did you went to a mormon summercourse about cliche-gay-behaviour? i have heard mormons fuck mules and kill real christian kids to prepare their special mormonsoup ... i think your religion is a massmurdercult. u should be punished that for ! (enough prejudices?)
i did not discrimminate anyone. that a speciality of religios people like you. and by the way: you have the interpretative authority of what is immoral? - i knew that your religion is fascistic before ...but you gave a proofe again!
In my experience the Mormon security are nowhere to be found when you are around the block, so therefore as I've heard/read they were not there till they got reports of 'lewdness' by being explict in their 'actions of love'. And what double standards? The leaders say we allow this ___, and we don't this ___, but you are free to chose what you may.
this behaviour of the church is a shame for the entire US. now the world is looking again, and what does it see? a middleaged community that claim the right, to invent their own rights. shame over the mormons. lets fight for the separation of state and religion.
The main problem is with intention of the LDS Security staff, who by their close and intimidating proximity in surrounding the couple and by sheer numbers, clearly and by intention, provoked a situation that should have been easily and professionally managed. Instead they resorted to violence and manhandling the couple. I cannot believe this is acceptable behaviour in the USA, and surely being representatives of the Lord, they could have acted as He would have acted, with love and compassion.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the guy on the bench was the one who initiated physical contact when he reached up and pushed the old guy in the chest. You only do that if you are trying to be aggressive and not trying to diffuse the situation. Yeah the old dudes could have handled it better, but they were not the only ones at fault here.
fortunately this is not an islamic country. there is no comparison. here we have a semblance of equality. expressing affection between two men, by a hug and a kiss on the cheek is not against the law, nor is it bad behavior.
bad behavior is a church having a double standard for people they don't like.
When a person or an organization owns property, they can dismiss any guests, at any time, for any reason. When the guest refuses to leave, they have committed the crime and the tort of trespassing.
no one disagrees on that. you are missing the point, which is that when you invite people onto your property, it's discrimination to have different standards for different people. it may be legal for them to do it, but it's STILL WRONG.
no, you're missing the point. under the law, property owners have the supreme right to dismiss any guests for any reason, or no reason at all. when the guest refuses to leave, they have committed the tort and the crime of trespassing. the prima facie evidence for trespassing, in this case, is iron-clad. the prosecutor chose not to prosecute these criminals because he's a coward and did not want to try a controversial case.
you're wrong. absolutely wrong. I GET the point about it being private property and the associated rights under the law. like I said before, no one disputes that.
it's STILL discriminatory to have different standards for different people. it IS legal for the church to act this way, to control their property as they choose... but it's STILL WRONG.
Oh, so now the prosecutor is a coward, huh? Or maybe he's more intelligent that you can understand, and knows that prosecuting this case will rip apart the divide between mormons and non-mormons even more! Don't you see that?
you're so concerned about defending your church that you don't see that your attitude is off-putting. even your name, "mormon militia" shows that you don't get it. You know the old expression about catching more flies with honey, than vinegar? take a lesson...
Mormons believe that lying for their faith is acceptable behaviour. They cover up any misdemeanour by their leaders as they feel they deserve special protection. For example, if Church leaders on Church property disobey a traffic law or worse, commit a serious traffic offence involving serious injury to persons, the police will not be informed, a cover up will ensue, with the incident going unrecorded. Mormons basically are dishonest bullies who feel they are above the law.
You know, the world doesn't need two lovers of the same sex on the grounds of a religion that opposes, not criticizes, same sex relationships. Where is the respect? Get a room!!!
Kaileo, next time you are with your gay friends tell them you don't support gay marriage (there are many gays who don't). Tell them you think Obama is a socialistic tyrant. Tell them anything that goes against the long list of things that "gays should believe".
Then see how accepting they are of your "opinions", how open minded they are, how magnanimous in their acceptance they are of ideas that differ from their own.
Gays don't have a monopoly on respect and open-mindedness.
By the way, the only gays that don't support marriage are the ones that view it as an outdated system. None of them are against it because they feel it's "god's will" or because they think it should only be between a man and a women. And as far as "many" gays believing that, not really... those that do are still very much in the minority. I respect their opinion and I definitely see their point.
sudnem wrote: "the standards, double or not, do not matter"
And you see, that's the problem with your church. You think it's OK to discriminate. Why do you people think Mormons are bigots? Because of this attitude.
If you are inviting people onto your property, it's discrimination to expect certain people to act one way, and other people to act another way. To Mormons, somehow gay people aren't good enough to show their affection for one another.
If you believe that, then you do not believe in property rights and liberty. Homosexuals have a nice history of discrimination for themselves. It is not like they are a discrete and insular minority.
Wrong again, sudnem. I have already stated in my previous comments that i believe in property rights. Liberty too.
However, if you open up your private property to the public (the signs on the plaza say "Welcome...", but then you expect one code of behavior for straights and another for gays, expect to be criticized and accused of discrimination and bigotry. Because it is!
You saying that gay people have a history of discrimination is ridiculous. Got proof?
So, what you are saying is that since I have a "welcome" sign (the mat on my front door) on my property it gives the public rights to ignore my reasonable request that they leave? Please clarify.
You're putting words in my mouth, or you're being intentionally obtuse. Any property owner has the right to control their property as they wish, as I have made VERY clear in my posts. However, it IS discrimination to impose TWO different sets of rules based upon a person's orientation.
Yes, I did put words into your mouth, I admit it and I apologize for the sarcasm. I understand your point about the problem with double standards but the simple point is it's their property. If the LDS church, the Catholic church, or the annoying says get off their property, we get off. I'm not sure if it is discrimination because the the LDS church openly stated its feelings about gay relations prior to the incident. If they allowed another same sex couple to kiss that is discrimination.
Really? At what point did they say, "No homosexual affection allowed on our Plaza?" Just curious....
Discrimination refers to treatment or action taken against a person of a certain group based upon their class or category. Therefore, your analogy is incorrect. Because they have one set of rules for heteros and another for gays, that is discrimination because they are treating gays differently based upon their category (their orientation).
Now who's throwing stones? The LDS church has had disagreed with same sex acts for at least 100 years as far as I know.That sounds like"No homosexual affection allowed on our Plaza?" to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the church come out strongly against same sex couples before? Do they really need to list every single thing for you? Really The church IS arch-conservsative and has never pretended otherwise. I havemy own issues with the church and so I go my own way and I let it alone.
I agree with you that the LDS church has a LOTof double standards. It's hugely aggrivating that one can have their professional life, neighborhood, and many other aspects highly affected by ANY religion that one doesn't even belong to. I could tell horror stories about growing up in Orem, UT
I personally have major issues with place where one group (religion, race, belief system, etc..) so dominates the area that no tolerance is given to anyone who is not dead center in that group's agenda.
I am soooo with you on that! I got extreme culture shock when my parents sent me to BYU from California. And my parents were very conservative... but Provo/Orem managed to be even more so! Amazing... and scary.
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LDS people truly believe they are the Lord's only representatives on the face of the earth. This arrogance manifests itself in the bullying tactics seen here. Go back into Church history and it's much worse than this. The early Mormon leaders ruled by fear and threats of throats being cut, etc., if not obeyed. Mormons are told not to read these shameful parts of Mormon history as it could destroy their faith. How very true!!
OK, you are talking apples and oranges in your argument. Yes this area is owned by the church, however they allow it to be open to the public. If you do not allow any public show of affection between people it should be posted. If you do not allow public show of affection just between just same sex couples that would be considered discrimination. The point is that a code of conduct was not posted so they where doing nothing wrong. Frankly, they might have a strong case for a law suit.
They DO allow it. Days after the event, straight couples were kissing ON THE MOUTH on the property. The church obviously wants to save face by LYING about their own policies.
These LDS idiots who walk around in their short-sleeved shirts, ringing doorbells to try to talk people into joining their cult are constantly invading private spaces-my home!! Mormonism was created by an illiterate fool who tried to pretend he received his instructions from golden tablets--come on, this is all bullshit anyway.
I despise their homophobic hatred. The next time they ring my doorbell I'll have them beat up and arrested-see if the cult approves of my private property then.
I see a lot of people defending the church because of the private property issue. And that would be a fair point... If the church didn't own pretty much all of the "public" space in the area. The real problem here is that they do. It's absolutely appalling, and no other religion could get away with that in this country.
You're right. Jesus would have cast out the sickness of those bully security guards, wouldn't he? Those men look like thugs. Reminds me of the days growing up in Texas when brutish guys would go gay bashing.
Okay, here's the thing. Because LDS owns the plaza, they have every right to say who can and can't be there, for whatever reason they choose.
However. Singling out a gay couple and using this kind of force for a simple kiss on the cheek, and using inflammatory language while doing so, is absolutely, irredeemably corrupt. It's not like the couple was sucking face while blocking the church door, for God's sake.
If there's a hell, I should hope that these homophobic fucks all rot in it.
Isaw in the video that the security guys are talking with them before, but they dont want to leave. Looks like if they are in the church property...How you can win respect when you dont respect themselves? I dont have nothig against gay community but if you want to win respect, aceptation and tolerance this is the worst way to get it. If you want to be respected, first respect yourselves,
And fight for your rights treating the other people in the same way you want to be treated: coexist.
FYI, Latter-day Saints are not "thugs" towards gay people. But we WILL stand up for OUR RIGHTS.
2nd, LDS nor the Church does not "hate" you. We simply believe in Eternal Truth, and standing for the right in all times and places. Just so you know, humanity has "all kinds" of "weaknesses" and temptations, EVEN from supposed "birth", but that doesn't mean we should act on such.
Anyway, these two people infringed on OUR RIGHTS, and rightly so they were asked to leave the property.
Perhaps you should close off the property or sell it to the city, if you are going to impose your antigay religious beliefs by force. And viewing a gay sexual orientation as a temptation and a weakness IS antigay - I would never think of describing hetero inclinations that way.
1. THEY were the ones causing the problem. THEY are free to be on the property as long as THEY show respect for OUR RIGHTS. So, are you telling me every private property owner should simply close off their property simply because some people won't behave on it? Get a clue.
It seems the prosecutor disagrees. The message seems to be that if you are going to have private property and welcome the public to use it, you should accommodate commonly acceptable public behaviour - like couples kissing and holding hands. If not, post a notice board of dos and don'ts.
Your rights end at asking them to leave and being able to have legally authorized officers remove them if they will not. No private citizen has a right to use physical force on another unless there is immediate threat, where reasonable force is allowed to remove the person from the property, certainly not to forcibly detain them, even if that private citizen works for a private security firm. Private security firms do not have legal authority to execute the law.
2. That's because you view your sexual orientation as "natual" that should be embraced, we do not. Further, you should learn what being "anti" actually means. We are anti your gay agenda infringing upon our rights, we are not "anti-gay". We not believe it is of God, but we absolutely allow you your agency to be gay. You should show the same respect back and allow us "our" agency for our sphere of influence.
3. In one place I lived I had a gay best friend whom we had the same interests, he also was in a livin gay relationship. We regularily all together went to each other's houses eat together, did things together ect. They knew very well my views as an LDS, but they also knew me as a person, and we were good friends because of it.
Good for you, sunshine! And I have two acquaintances who come from LDS backgrounds who left your church because the integrity of their beings was not respected. In the case of one of them, her family will no longer talk to her. And given the LDS involvement in pushing Prop Eight in Cali, I hardly think it is credible to claim that there is respect to "live and let live," even in the public sphere.
You're absolutely right, fishhead06...maybe Mormon families has disowned their gay kids. I got disowned at Christmas 2001 when one of my brothers outed me. Mormons tell apart families... so much for family values!
I nor any other LDS are "anti-gay". But, we ARE entitled to OUR RIGHTS. I said earlier if you all want marriage, then create the institution, we likely won't stand against you. But SHAME on your for YOUR intolerance for trying to co-opt OUR institution which has existed for eon's. Gay "marriage" on the other hand has not existed. So where is YOUR tolerance??? And you have the gaul to call "us" intolerant.
what are you the LDS church accountant? If you are going to rag on the LDS church you may as well rag on the catholics and the millions of others who do not belong to those groups who were also against prop 8...
Legally you are only allowed to ask the trespassing person to leave, then call law enforcement officials if they do not. As long as the trespasser is not posing an immediate threat, they cannot be removed by force. It is illegal to arrest a trespasser and hold them on the property until law enforcement arrives as this defeats the purpose of allowing them to cure the trespass by leaving. Also, the property would need to be marked as private or fenced to say they were trespassing.
Actually, you don't know what your talking about. Security at "any" area or place can absolutely hand cuff you and sit you down waiting for the police. It's for your safety as well as their safety.
How do I know this for sure, because I actually worked security part time for many years and at many different places and functions while going through college.
Thus, while you seem more intelligent and reasonable compared to other contrarians here, your completely off in your "facts". FYI :)
Nope, sorry you are incorrect, this would constitute illegal imprisonment, security does not have legal authority to do this under the specific laws governing trespass. Especially so in space not marked as private, and explicitly open to the public such as a plaza. Security can use reasonable force only when there is immediate threat to property or person, which there clearly wasn't. And it stands to reason that if you are forcibly keeping a person on the property that they are not trespassing.
The Church has a right to ask anyone to leave their property just like any citizen does. The problem came when the two people didn't respect the churches right's to their property and got belligerent.
if a couple of drunk gays started making out on my "PRIVATE PROPERTY" and i asked them to leave, and they started to act like belligerent assholes, they would be picking up their teeth off of the ground. clearly none of you braindead morons understands what private property is. these guys had no respect for anyone who might have to witness their drunken display of affection. newsflash for the hostile gays, some people find your lifestyle to be gross and sickening.
For someone throwing around terms like 'braindead morons' it's ironic that you accuse others of not understanding or appreciating the law concerning private property, when you yourself obviously have no concern for laws concerning assault, which is much more serious. Also ironic calling 'gays' hostile while describing how you yourself would use extreme violence on them. Newflash; Attacking and knocking another persons teeth out for being different to you = sickening.
ok can someone explain to me why do mormons hate gays? cause we are pushing our lifestyle on them? i mean we are not the ones at your front door on saturday mornings, pushing our beliefs on people.
I'm not gay but I strongly support equal rights for all people. With Utah in the news lately showing as a state they have the highest incidence of pain perscription overdoses and the highest Porn subscribers I suggest they do some soul searching on thier own....
I should not have watched that becuz it made me so angry, who gives a shit if they were hugging or french kissing? If they were a straight couple that would not have happened. FUCK RELIGION!
if it was a "sweet&loving" (i guess u can say) kiss then its ok, but i must admit that there are some gay guys who arent respectful and do the super sexual french kissing...now thats disrespectful and makes others think of us wrong! still they shouldn't have been treated this way!! here in el paso, tx 2 gay guys were kicked out of a restaurant for doing the same...and hold the same opinion. maybe w/ these "incidents" being seen we'll get somewhere...but lets take it slow and be respectful....???
how dare they block out an angle of our hetero sexual field of view :) id say extreme "display of affection" where its hard to avoid visual contact (across seat in a subway f.e.) is very impolite in general, but on a park bench or a romantic place like a restaurant - no way! no tolerance for intolerance
i understand what you mean. i guess we all have our own opinions regarding "PDA"...and i am with you on "no tolerence for intolerance". i guess i just hold back to avoid confrotations with close minded people!
wow well i dont know what to say...im gay, im 21, but im also mature and respectful. im not sure of what they were doing. but i myself do hold back on "public display of affection". may be a kiss(peck on cheek or lips), a hug, and holding hands (which i dont personally like) but i know my limits! but com'on gay people!!! fortunately we are starting to get more "rights" and "acceptance" so lets take it slow...(cont. in comment above....)
I can never follow any religion that aren't tolerant of someone's race, creed, beliefs, orientation, etc. For that reason I don't attend any church, nor do I go around and call myself a christian. Many "christians" are hipocrites.
I didn't like how they put them in custody for something so minor. They could have just asked them to leave the premises.
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Hey gay folks..... Just a little "advice", FAIRNESS, EQUALITY, TOLERANCE, and RESPECT "goes both ways".
Your on Church property, therefore, the Church has every right to limit behavior on that property.
You wouldn't want anyone to go on YOUR property and do things against YOUR rules would you?
FYI, if you all want to have "your marriage" then create it...... I think the name "Bi-arriage" is available. Don't co-opt an institution that isn't yours. YOUR the ones that are intolerant!!!
"French kissing"?!? LOL OMG WTF is wrong with you people in Utah? Oh yeah: Sexual repression. It's like the inquisition, but with badgering instead of torture!
Last time I checked, a kiss never killed an innocent bystander or robbed someone of their 401k. Anyone genuinely bothered by two people of any sexual orientation kissing in public has some serious emotional problems.
Is it possible that there was no initial footage of the alleged "french kissing", "groping", etc? Notice how the camera panned right and zoomed in. Could it be that the camera angled there once the security team came?
Wow Aaron, were you there? You must have been part of it to know that they were french kissing. There is something really wrong with people who get offended by people kissing. And if the church is so worried about the property, build a fence around it. On second thought, just take the whole bunch off to one of those weird planets they believe they're going to.
What year is this 1500? I mean, c'mon, no public display of affection? It's so Middle Ages. Do you wear chastity belts still? What's next Burqa's for BYU? Get over yourselves and step into the 21st century. People kissing each other in public is a good thing. People loving each other is a good thing.
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They shouldn't have sped the video up, it gives a false impression about the attitude of the security guards. I know these guys (I'm not Mormon, I just spend a lot of time evangelizing on the sidewalks around Temple Square). They are reasonable, calm, and laid back. They didn't want to arrest this guy, they just wanted him to stop french kissing and groping on the plaza. I support them in this unfortunate incident.
Nice try at spin, but i don't see any groping or french kissing.
The Mormon Church was wrong on this. The video shows it. This shows exactly why these two men were cleared of all charges. It is another reason why the city needs to take back this property-- the Mormon Church hasn't kept their part of the agreement from the lawsuit.
shure - the mormons are very league. " your american god lives at a planet comes home and behave s with ? virgins. missouri is the base and ....." shure mormons are the best america developed- beside apple, the bug, civil rights ...
i am curious when u guys start to shoot this nonsense-propaganda
shlomo119 7 months ago
I think this guy just wanted to make trouble. I t was clear that the security staff attempted to handle the siruarion as calmly as they could, and should. I think this guy was looking to start trouble and no doubt wanted to set it up for a payday.
myway43 1 year ago
dude doesn't even have a shirt on? looks like a pretty reasonable arrest. dudes asked to leave private property. dudes didn't. dudes were escorted away. if you really want to great way to protest the lds faith, you have to...wait...nevermind...i'll keep it to myself.
sunsetally 2 years ago
When were they escorted away? Looks to me like they got ganged-up on and cuffed.
Pfhreak 2 years ago
Why didn't they just leave?
1kemistry 2 years ago
right talking about the IQ of a mormon is like talking about oxygen on mars
shlomo119 2 years ago
@shlomo119 Ok? Saying all mormons dont have a good IQ is very stupid! Have you heard of BYU!? I hate BYU but dude that school has ivy league standards
troll2282 10 months ago
and read the lines i wrote. if you cant think ask your priest to help you.
shlomo119 2 years ago
sweetie. first i am straight - i have to disappoint you. second the way of dialectic obviously did not appear in your country. third. slowly i understand why we europeans wanted to get rid of you discusting freaks. and finally. there is no truth get used to it. what u call truth is fiction- sometimes things are a bit more tricky ... silly farmer. keep with your potatos.
shlomo119 2 years ago
watch your manners mormon! i said its fiction. i am shure there is a truth but nobody, specialy not you have an idea of it. but with an IQ of 65, that allowe you to work with mules and potatos, you cant understand the philosophical backround in it. so go back to your church and plug the cross in your bud.
shlomo119 2 years ago
you write just religious nonsense.truth is fiction of a selfjustify rules. i think you found your system, you little farmer LOL modesty ... do you have heart of this term. thats one word your religion pretend to be based on. so you damage the rules you gave yourself - how wiered is that. GET RID OF IT - THERE IS NO TRUTH, BOY!
shlomo119 2 years ago
wow christian ethics is proofed, couple daysago a sunni told me that islam ethics is proofed and the only truth ;-) you really believe there is something like "truth" ;-) ... well stay in the medieval as your cult.
shlomo119 2 years ago
haaaaaha ...judgment day wow ;-) you really believe in this stuff right? did your priest rape you when you were a schoolboy or is your wive sick of your small dick, that you are so hardcore? one question by the way, who do you mean all the time with YOU? do you have probably a little paranoia? i have heard thats a sideproblem of religions, but its treatable too. so dont despair - there is HOPE!
shlomo119 2 years ago
Why do you hate mormons?
Ronnieleej 2 years ago
i dont. but watch the clip and you see the reason of my antipathie.
shlomo119 2 years ago
well the only person i know wich have aids is an italian women and her 3 years old daughter. good that you can make fun over this. (thats the famous christian charity, right?)but anyway. you bore me. go back to the field and take care of the potatoes, or whatever else you do so. ps: hell is a fake to prohibit everything sensual. but that you will never understand.
shlomo119 2 years ago
shure, all gays rape little boys. specially that gays that like older men ;-) do you really beliefe what you wrote or are you just on meth? what do you take care of other peoples way of live? you claim tolerance and act like a german fascist past ´33. (ps: i said that YOUR religion is a killing cult and that YOU should be punished.probably you should learn to read first and learn to realise that other people use ironie to tease you. goodness you´r a blind farmer and worst than a taliban)
shlomo119 2 years ago
WOW you seem well informed. did you went to a mormon summercourse about cliche-gay-behaviour? i have heard mormons fuck mules and kill real christian kids to prepare their special mormonsoup ... i think your religion is a massmurdercult. u should be punished that for ! (enough prejudices?)
shlomo119 2 years ago
publicly homophobe ;-) and you accuse me to discrimminate ... what a rediciulous behaviour!
shlomo119 2 years ago
i did not discrimminate anyone. that a speciality of religios people like you. and by the way: you have the interpretative authority of what is immoral? - i knew that your religion is fascistic before ...but you gave a proofe again!
shlomo119 2 years ago
It's private property. they can kick any out if they want to..
littnguy 2 years ago
In my experience the Mormon security are nowhere to be found when you are around the block, so therefore as I've heard/read they were not there till they got reports of 'lewdness' by being explict in their 'actions of love'. And what double standards? The leaders say we allow this ___, and we don't this ___, but you are free to chose what you may.
If no one gives a standard there is chaos! :/
Striplingwarrior2002 2 years ago
Law suit written all over this. False arrest? Does anyone have another link on this? Thanks.
frenchpressisgod 2 years ago
fuck mormons
SEXYJOURNALISTS 2 years ago
this behaviour of the church is a shame for the entire US. now the world is looking again, and what does it see? a middleaged community that claim the right, to invent their own rights. shame over the mormons. lets fight for the separation of state and religion.
shlomo119 2 years ago
The main problem is with intention of the LDS Security staff, who by their close and intimidating proximity in surrounding the couple and by sheer numbers, clearly and by intention, provoked a situation that should have been easily and professionally managed. Instead they resorted to violence and manhandling the couple. I cannot believe this is acceptable behaviour in the USA, and surely being representatives of the Lord, they could have acted as He would have acted, with love and compassion.
Mr1afterlife 2 years ago
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the guy on the bench was the one who initiated physical contact when he reached up and pushed the old guy in the chest. You only do that if you are trying to be aggressive and not trying to diffuse the situation. Yeah the old dudes could have handled it better, but they were not the only ones at fault here.
phatgal2002 2 years ago
Bad behaviour is bad behaviour try this public display in an Islamic country see what the out come would be.
fuzzhaid 2 years ago
fortunately this is not an islamic country. there is no comparison. here we have a semblance of equality. expressing affection between two men, by a hug and a kiss on the cheek is not against the law, nor is it bad behavior.
bad behavior is a church having a double standard for people they don't like.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
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fuzzhaid 2 years ago
When a person or an organization owns property, they can dismiss any guests, at any time, for any reason. When the guest refuses to leave, they have committed the crime and the tort of trespassing.
mormonmilitia 2 years ago
no one disagrees on that. you are missing the point, which is that when you invite people onto your property, it's discrimination to have different standards for different people. it may be legal for them to do it, but it's STILL WRONG.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
no, you're missing the point. under the law, property owners have the supreme right to dismiss any guests for any reason, or no reason at all. when the guest refuses to leave, they have committed the tort and the crime of trespassing. the prima facie evidence for trespassing, in this case, is iron-clad. the prosecutor chose not to prosecute these criminals because he's a coward and did not want to try a controversial case.
mormonmilitia 2 years ago
you're wrong. absolutely wrong. I GET the point about it being private property and the associated rights under the law. like I said before, no one disputes that.
it's STILL discriminatory to have different standards for different people. it IS legal for the church to act this way, to control their property as they choose... but it's STILL WRONG.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Oh, so now the prosecutor is a coward, huh? Or maybe he's more intelligent that you can understand, and knows that prosecuting this case will rip apart the divide between mormons and non-mormons even more! Don't you see that?
you're so concerned about defending your church that you don't see that your attitude is off-putting. even your name, "mormon militia" shows that you don't get it. You know the old expression about catching more flies with honey, than vinegar? take a lesson...
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Mormons believe that lying for their faith is acceptable behaviour. They cover up any misdemeanour by their leaders as they feel they deserve special protection. For example, if Church leaders on Church property disobey a traffic law or worse, commit a serious traffic offence involving serious injury to persons, the police will not be informed, a cover up will ensue, with the incident going unrecorded. Mormons basically are dishonest bullies who feel they are above the law.
Mr1afterlife 2 years ago
this should be set to yackity sax.
Nivlac1982 2 years ago
that's exactly what i was thinking.
mormonmilitia 2 years ago
You know, the world doesn't need two lovers of the same sex on the grounds of a religion that opposes, not criticizes, same sex relationships. Where is the respect? Get a room!!!
LeBaronableCTR 2 years ago
Big, fat-gut, tough security guys got nothing better to do than bust a couple of fags for kissing?
Good thing for you Barney Fifes they weren't any kind of REAL threat...like terrorist bombers! LDS are latent homos.
eluap 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The conflict that DOES exist is the homophobia of the Mormon church.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Kaileo, next time you are with your gay friends tell them you don't support gay marriage (there are many gays who don't). Tell them you think Obama is a socialistic tyrant. Tell them anything that goes against the long list of things that "gays should believe".
Then see how accepting they are of your "opinions", how open minded they are, how magnanimous in their acceptance they are of ideas that differ from their own.
Gays don't have a monopoly on respect and open-mindedness.
OldHellPaso 2 years ago
I never said they did, smart guy.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
By the way, the only gays that don't support marriage are the ones that view it as an outdated system. None of them are against it because they feel it's "god's will" or because they think it should only be between a man and a women. And as far as "many" gays believing that, not really... those that do are still very much in the minority. I respect their opinion and I definitely see their point.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yes, however a bank typically does not have double standards for their visitors, like the Mormon church does!
Fail.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
The standards, double or not, do not matter. What matters is the right to maintain your property as you wish.
sudnem 2 years ago 4
sudnem wrote: "the standards, double or not, do not matter"
And you see, that's the problem with your church. You think it's OK to discriminate. Why do you people think Mormons are bigots? Because of this attitude.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
If you are inviting people onto your property, it's discrimination to expect certain people to act one way, and other people to act another way. To Mormons, somehow gay people aren't good enough to show their affection for one another.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
If you believe that, then you do not believe in property rights and liberty. Homosexuals have a nice history of discrimination for themselves. It is not like they are a discrete and insular minority.
sudnem 2 years ago 2
Wrong again, sudnem. I have already stated in my previous comments that i believe in property rights. Liberty too.
However, if you open up your private property to the public (the signs on the plaza say "Welcome...", but then you expect one code of behavior for straights and another for gays, expect to be criticized and accused of discrimination and bigotry. Because it is!
You saying that gay people have a history of discrimination is ridiculous. Got proof?
Kaileo1 2 years ago
None that you would accept.
sudnem 2 years ago
Try me.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
So, what you are saying is that since I have a "welcome" sign (the mat on my front door) on my property it gives the public rights to ignore my reasonable request that they leave? Please clarify.
bwindussa 2 years ago
You're putting words in my mouth, or you're being intentionally obtuse. Any property owner has the right to control their property as they wish, as I have made VERY clear in my posts. However, it IS discrimination to impose TWO different sets of rules based upon a person's orientation.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Yes, I did put words into your mouth, I admit it and I apologize for the sarcasm. I understand your point about the problem with double standards but the simple point is it's their property. If the LDS church, the Catholic church, or the annoying says get off their property, we get off. I'm not sure if it is discrimination because the the LDS church openly stated its feelings about gay relations prior to the incident. If they allowed another same sex couple to kiss that is discrimination.
bwindussa 2 years ago
Really? At what point did they say, "No homosexual affection allowed on our Plaza?" Just curious....
Discrimination refers to treatment or action taken against a person of a certain group based upon their class or category. Therefore, your analogy is incorrect. Because they have one set of rules for heteros and another for gays, that is discrimination because they are treating gays differently based upon their category (their orientation).
It's their property, but it's still wrong.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Now who's throwing stones? The LDS church has had disagreed with same sex acts for at least 100 years as far as I know.That sounds like"No homosexual affection allowed on our Plaza?" to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the church come out strongly against same sex couples before? Do they really need to list every single thing for you? Really The church IS arch-conservsative and has never pretended otherwise. I havemy own issues with the church and so I go my own way and I let it alone.
bwindussa 2 years ago
texas is quite often a rascist state. does blacks than have no right to go there? your argument is nonsense.
shlomo119 2 years ago
p.s. I acknowledged my sarcastic comment, apologized for it, and respectfully stated my comment. Your immediate reply to my apology was:
"Really? At what point did they say, "No homosexual affection allowed on our Plaza?" Just curious...."
I'm done.
Discussion closed
bwindussa 2 years ago
You are right, my apologies. It's just aggravating that the Mormon church treats people this way.
"Coming out strongly against gays" is not quite the same as having rules of affection for their Plaza, but I do see your point. Cheers...
Kaileo1 2 years ago
I agree with you that the LDS church has a LOTof double standards. It's hugely aggrivating that one can have their professional life, neighborhood, and many other aspects highly affected by ANY religion that one doesn't even belong to. I could tell horror stories about growing up in Orem, UT
I personally have major issues with place where one group (religion, race, belief system, etc..) so dominates the area that no tolerance is given to anyone who is not dead center in that group's agenda.
bwindussa 2 years ago
I am soooo with you on that! I got extreme culture shock when my parents sent me to BYU from California. And my parents were very conservative... but Provo/Orem managed to be even more so! Amazing... and scary.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
LDS people truly believe they are the Lord's only representatives on the face of the earth. This arrogance manifests itself in the bullying tactics seen here. Go back into Church history and it's much worse than this. The early Mormon leaders ruled by fear and threats of throats being cut, etc., if not obeyed. Mormons are told not to read these shameful parts of Mormon history as it could destroy their faith. How very true!!
Mr1afterlife 2 years ago
OK, you are talking apples and oranges in your argument. Yes this area is owned by the church, however they allow it to be open to the public. If you do not allow any public show of affection between people it should be posted. If you do not allow public show of affection just between just same sex couples that would be considered discrimination. The point is that a code of conduct was not posted so they where doing nothing wrong. Frankly, they might have a strong case for a law suit.
Handy14You 2 years ago
Well said, handsome! :)
Kaileo1 2 years ago
They DO allow it. Days after the event, straight couples were kissing ON THE MOUTH on the property. The church obviously wants to save face by LYING about their own policies.
FallenAngelIII 2 years ago
These LDS idiots who walk around in their short-sleeved shirts, ringing doorbells to try to talk people into joining their cult are constantly invading private spaces-my home!! Mormonism was created by an illiterate fool who tried to pretend he received his instructions from golden tablets--come on, this is all bullshit anyway.
I despise their homophobic hatred. The next time they ring my doorbell I'll have them beat up and arrested-see if the cult approves of my private property then.
VeritasVeritas 2 years ago
No respect for private property anymore.
sudnem 2 years ago
No respect for people who are different than you. The Mormons have no respect for gay people.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
You can do whatever you want on your own property. Respect private property.
sudnem 2 years ago
Even more important: Don't have hypocritical double-standards for what's considered respectful.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
I see a lot of people defending the church because of the private property issue. And that would be a fair point... If the church didn't own pretty much all of the "public" space in the area. The real problem here is that they do. It's absolutely appalling, and no other religion could get away with that in this country.
jbetp99 2 years ago
Jesus would have cast out their demons and healed their sickness and cured any diseases and sent them on their merry way. We should all be like him.
trejas3280 2 years ago
You're right. Jesus would have cast out the sickness of those bully security guards, wouldn't he? Those men look like thugs. Reminds me of the days growing up in Texas when brutish guys would go gay bashing.
mgrace9999 2 years ago
Okay, here's the thing. Because LDS owns the plaza, they have every right to say who can and can't be there, for whatever reason they choose.
However. Singling out a gay couple and using this kind of force for a simple kiss on the cheek, and using inflammatory language while doing so, is absolutely, irredeemably corrupt. It's not like the couple was sucking face while blocking the church door, for God's sake.
If there's a hell, I should hope that these homophobic fucks all rot in it.
aykgotl 2 years ago
Isaw in the video that the security guys are talking with them before, but they dont want to leave. Looks like if they are in the church property...How you can win respect when you dont respect themselves? I dont have nothig against gay community but if you want to win respect, aceptation and tolerance this is the worst way to get it. If you want to be respected, first respect yourselves,
And fight for your rights treating the other people in the same way you want to be treated: coexist.
PALOMA407 2 years ago
Typical Mormon thuggery toward gay people - sadly, the fact that the LDS cult hates us isn't news.
fishhead06 2 years ago
FYI, Latter-day Saints are not "thugs" towards gay people. But we WILL stand up for OUR RIGHTS.
2nd, LDS nor the Church does not "hate" you. We simply believe in Eternal Truth, and standing for the right in all times and places. Just so you know, humanity has "all kinds" of "weaknesses" and temptations, EVEN from supposed "birth", but that doesn't mean we should act on such.
Anyway, these two people infringed on OUR RIGHTS, and rightly so they were asked to leave the property.
leeuniverse 2 years ago
Perhaps you should close off the property or sell it to the city, if you are going to impose your antigay religious beliefs by force. And viewing a gay sexual orientation as a temptation and a weakness IS antigay - I would never think of describing hetero inclinations that way.
fishhead06 2 years ago
1. THEY were the ones causing the problem. THEY are free to be on the property as long as THEY show respect for OUR RIGHTS. So, are you telling me every private property owner should simply close off their property simply because some people won't behave on it? Get a clue.
leeuniverse 2 years ago
It seems the prosecutor disagrees. The message seems to be that if you are going to have private property and welcome the public to use it, you should accommodate commonly acceptable public behaviour - like couples kissing and holding hands. If not, post a notice board of dos and don'ts.
fishhead06 2 years ago
Your rights end at asking them to leave and being able to have legally authorized officers remove them if they will not. No private citizen has a right to use physical force on another unless there is immediate threat, where reasonable force is allowed to remove the person from the property, certainly not to forcibly detain them, even if that private citizen works for a private security firm. Private security firms do not have legal authority to execute the law.
nugagim 2 years ago 2
2. That's because you view your sexual orientation as "natual" that should be embraced, we do not. Further, you should learn what being "anti" actually means. We are anti your gay agenda infringing upon our rights, we are not "anti-gay". We not believe it is of God, but we absolutely allow you your agency to be gay. You should show the same respect back and allow us "our" agency for our sphere of influence.
leeuniverse 2 years ago
Which "right" is being infringed? Your personal distaste at witnessing affection between two consenting adults is not what I would call a "right."
fishhead06 2 years ago 2
3. In one place I lived I had a gay best friend whom we had the same interests, he also was in a livin gay relationship. We regularily all together went to each other's houses eat together, did things together ect. They knew very well my views as an LDS, but they also knew me as a person, and we were good friends because of it.
leeuniverse 2 years ago
Good for you, sunshine! And I have two acquaintances who come from LDS backgrounds who left your church because the integrity of their beings was not respected. In the case of one of them, her family will no longer talk to her. And given the LDS involvement in pushing Prop Eight in Cali, I hardly think it is credible to claim that there is respect to "live and let live," even in the public sphere.
fishhead06 2 years ago 2
You're absolutely right, fishhead06...maybe Mormon families has disowned their gay kids. I got disowned at Christmas 2001 when one of my brothers outed me. Mormons tell apart families... so much for family values!
Kaileo1 2 years ago
meant to say "MANY" not "maybe"
Kaileo1 2 years ago
I nor any other LDS are "anti-gay". But, we ARE entitled to OUR RIGHTS. I said earlier if you all want marriage, then create the institution, we likely won't stand against you. But SHAME on your for YOUR intolerance for trying to co-opt OUR institution which has existed for eon's. Gay "marriage" on the other hand has not existed. So where is YOUR tolerance??? And you have the gaul to call "us" intolerant.
leeuniverse 2 years ago
And I'll remember your lecture about tolerance and co-opting institutions the next time I ruminate on the millions the LDS Church poured into Prop 8.
fishhead06 2 years ago
what are you the LDS church accountant? If you are going to rag on the LDS church you may as well rag on the catholics and the millions of others who do not belong to those groups who were also against prop 8...
phatgal2002 2 years ago
Legally you are only allowed to ask the trespassing person to leave, then call law enforcement officials if they do not. As long as the trespasser is not posing an immediate threat, they cannot be removed by force. It is illegal to arrest a trespasser and hold them on the property until law enforcement arrives as this defeats the purpose of allowing them to cure the trespass by leaving. Also, the property would need to be marked as private or fenced to say they were trespassing.
nugagim 2 years ago
Actually, you don't know what your talking about. Security at "any" area or place can absolutely hand cuff you and sit you down waiting for the police. It's for your safety as well as their safety.
How do I know this for sure, because I actually worked security part time for many years and at many different places and functions while going through college.
Thus, while you seem more intelligent and reasonable compared to other contrarians here, your completely off in your "facts". FYI :)
leeuniverse 2 years ago
Nope, sorry you are incorrect, this would constitute illegal imprisonment, security does not have legal authority to do this under the specific laws governing trespass. Especially so in space not marked as private, and explicitly open to the public such as a plaza. Security can use reasonable force only when there is immediate threat to property or person, which there clearly wasn't. And it stands to reason that if you are forcibly keeping a person on the property that they are not trespassing.
nugagim 2 years ago
The Church has a right to ask anyone to leave their property just like any citizen does. The problem came when the two people didn't respect the churches right's to their property and got belligerent.
frankcaoak 2 years ago
if a couple of drunk gays started making out on my "PRIVATE PROPERTY" and i asked them to leave, and they started to act like belligerent assholes, they would be picking up their teeth off of the ground. clearly none of you braindead morons understands what private property is. these guys had no respect for anyone who might have to witness their drunken display of affection. newsflash for the hostile gays, some people find your lifestyle to be gross and sickening.
mdjbm 2 years ago
For someone throwing around terms like 'braindead morons' it's ironic that you accuse others of not understanding or appreciating the law concerning private property, when you yourself obviously have no concern for laws concerning assault, which is much more serious. Also ironic calling 'gays' hostile while describing how you yourself would use extreme violence on them. Newflash; Attacking and knocking another persons teeth out for being different to you = sickening.
nugagim 2 years ago
LDS Members you sing:
"In the cottage there is joy, when there's love at home.
Hate and envy ne'er annoy, when there's love at home.
...Oh, there's one who smiles on high, when there's love at home."
Charity & welcoming others is a message you always shrived for:
"Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up.." 1 Cor. 13:4
There's love in diversity. Love is between you & your maker. We all deserve to love & be with your loved ones.
xistng 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
mormons are like the taliban...suprised they didn't dehead them..how sad..
guppieboi 2 years ago
ok can someone explain to me why do mormons hate gays? cause we are pushing our lifestyle on them? i mean we are not the ones at your front door on saturday mornings, pushing our beliefs on people.
oohsotasty69r 2 years ago
I'm not gay but I strongly support equal rights for all people. With Utah in the news lately showing as a state they have the highest incidence of pain perscription overdoses and the highest Porn subscribers I suggest they do some soul searching on thier own....
48snowbird 2 years ago 2
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48snowbird 2 years ago
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curebadbreath 2 years ago
I should not have watched that becuz it made me so angry, who gives a shit if they were hugging or french kissing? If they were a straight couple that would not have happened. FUCK RELIGION!
xxLenorexx 2 years ago 4
It's happened to straight couples before. It's the fact that they were kissing, not the fact that they were gay.
janieiscool1 2 years ago
culdn't agree man dis defo wuldn't ave happened had de couple been feckin straight RELIGION IS A BITCH
daisyissexy 2 years ago
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momto5js 2 years ago
if it was a "sweet&loving" (i guess u can say) kiss then its ok, but i must admit that there are some gay guys who arent respectful and do the super sexual french kissing...now thats disrespectful and makes others think of us wrong! still they shouldn't have been treated this way!! here in el paso, tx 2 gay guys were kicked out of a restaurant for doing the same...and hold the same opinion. maybe w/ these "incidents" being seen we'll get somewhere...but lets take it slow and be respectful....???
aadriannsmhs2006 2 years ago
how dare they block out an angle of our hetero sexual field of view :) id say extreme "display of affection" where its hard to avoid visual contact (across seat in a subway f.e.) is very impolite in general, but on a park bench or a romantic place like a restaurant - no way! no tolerance for intolerance
random0815 2 years ago
i understand what you mean. i guess we all have our own opinions regarding "PDA"...and i am with you on "no tolerence for intolerance". i guess i just hold back to avoid confrotations with close minded people!
aadriannsmhs2006 2 years ago
wow well i dont know what to say...im gay, im 21, but im also mature and respectful. im not sure of what they were doing. but i myself do hold back on "public display of affection". may be a kiss(peck on cheek or lips), a hug, and holding hands (which i dont personally like) but i know my limits! but com'on gay people!!! fortunately we are starting to get more "rights" and "acceptance" so lets take it slow...(cont. in comment above....)
aadriannsmhs2006 2 years ago
I can never follow any religion that aren't tolerant of someone's race, creed, beliefs, orientation, etc. For that reason I don't attend any church, nor do I go around and call myself a christian. Many "christians" are hipocrites.
I didn't like how they put them in custody for something so minor. They could have just asked them to leave the premises.
DayumQuitPlayin 2 years ago
"I didn't like how they put them in custody for something so minor. They could have just asked them to leave the premises."
They did, and the two men did not leave.
buraianto 2 years ago
here in Utah we live by the 3 S's
Shoot
Shovel
Shut up.
lady at the bar told me that what she tells all the gay guys that comes in.
MrEatenbyhogs 2 years ago
AMERICAN
TALIBAN
cephal0p0d 2 years ago
is homosexuality criminalized or just public lewdness banned in Utah?
pandemonious 2 years ago
Mormon Church goons! I'll be sure to push around those asshats next time they're in my neighborhood pushing their fairy tale beliefs on my property.
realitywhor 2 years ago
Gorillas in the Mist, The Sequel
ChinoBlanco 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The couple was drunk, "french kissing", and groping one another. They were behaving indecently and the Church had every right to throw them out.
Those who criticize the Church in this instance for being "Naziish" or "homophobic" are both ignorant and idiots.
jtantley 2 years ago
6:2, If you're not a Mormon you're wicked.
6:18, God makes those who disrespect Mormons eat their own flesh.
21:20-21, God will "execute vengeance and fury" upon those who are not Mormons.
13:9, Homosexuals are intrinsically evil.
I have no reason to respect this. As far as I'm concerned, you can stick your violent, bigoted, child raping religion up your ass.
Greywyn7 2 years ago 2
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greatgads 2 years ago
I'm paraphrasing, Greatgads. Go read the verses.
Greywyn7 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Well done Mormon security!! It should be illegal for Homos to behave so disgustingly in public!!
tezkingkong 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hey gay folks..... Just a little "advice", FAIRNESS, EQUALITY, TOLERANCE, and RESPECT "goes both ways".
Your on Church property, therefore, the Church has every right to limit behavior on that property.
You wouldn't want anyone to go on YOUR property and do things against YOUR rules would you?
FYI, if you all want to have "your marriage" then create it...... I think the name "Bi-arriage" is available. Don't co-opt an institution that isn't yours. YOUR the ones that are intolerant!!!
leeuniverse 2 years ago
I have no reason to respect your wacky religion. lol, you don't even know the difference between your and you're! furthermore, you'RE a twat.
10mintwo 2 years ago
My religion says I can kill people who wear blue on my property.
So the next time a cop knocks on my door, I'm going to shoot him.
What, I can't do that? Respect my beliefs! Why are you OPPRESSING ME!?
Greywyn7 2 years ago 4
Behold! The new Nazi's of the world.
PotterMcCloud 2 years ago 2
The Mormon response to a kiss between two men is violence? My stomache hurts.
alloutacash 2 years ago 3
LDS sucks big time. They need to be heavily taxed, write to Congress today!
osjb 2 years ago
"French kissing"?!? LOL OMG WTF is wrong with you people in Utah? Oh yeah: Sexual repression. It's like the inquisition, but with badgering instead of torture!
Last time I checked, a kiss never killed an innocent bystander or robbed someone of their 401k. Anyone genuinely bothered by two people of any sexual orientation kissing in public has some serious emotional problems.
jbetp99 2 years ago 3
Looks like LDS edited this before releasing it to the prosecution team.
chucksaintpaul 2 years ago
Why does it look like it was edited? I didn't notice any break in continuity.
buraianto 2 years ago 2
Is it possible that there was no initial footage of the alleged "french kissing", "groping", etc? Notice how the camera panned right and zoomed in. Could it be that the camera angled there once the security team came?
Just some thoughts.
Rommelator 2 years ago 5
Wow Aaron, were you there? You must have been part of it to know that they were french kissing. There is something really wrong with people who get offended by people kissing. And if the church is so worried about the property, build a fence around it. On second thought, just take the whole bunch off to one of those weird planets they believe they're going to.
atriptotheouthouse 2 years ago
CLEARLY one of the guys makes contact with a security guard after poking him in the chest... UHH MISTAKE!
drfevermd 2 years ago
What year is this 1500? I mean, c'mon, no public display of affection? It's so Middle Ages. Do you wear chastity belts still? What's next Burqa's for BYU? Get over yourselves and step into the 21st century. People kissing each other in public is a good thing. People loving each other is a good thing.
STOP HATING AND START LOVING!!!
madambomb 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
They shouldn't have sped the video up, it gives a false impression about the attitude of the security guards. I know these guys (I'm not Mormon, I just spend a lot of time evangelizing on the sidewalks around Temple Square). They are reasonable, calm, and laid back. They didn't want to arrest this guy, they just wanted him to stop french kissing and groping on the plaza. I support them in this unfortunate incident.
aaronshaf2006 2 years ago
Nice try at spin, but i don't see any groping or french kissing.
The Mormon Church was wrong on this. The video shows it. This shows exactly why these two men were cleared of all charges. It is another reason why the city needs to take back this property-- the Mormon Church hasn't kept their part of the agreement from the lawsuit.
cryan71 2 years ago
There is no audio, this is a remote security camera.
sltrib 2 years ago
i wish we could hear the audio!!! but it's pretty clear who was badgering who!
anterfr 2 years ago