Do you really want to raise taxes on the middle classes (those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year) while lowering the taxes of the wealthy (those making more than $150,000 a year), lucidcity?
You might want to look at the data-- even the SUPPORTING org's data shows that this "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of the middle classes. See tinyurl 593htl, pages 30-on, particularly Table 13 years 7-8 and 15-16 to see one trick they try.
are you stupid or simply ignorant? the fair tax is a consumption tax, and it gets rid of all other taxes! Yeah, if the bottom 50% were able to keep their entire paycheck, and then only get taxed on what they buy..., you tell us what wrong with that!!
The fair tax is awesome for people with poor math skills. Have you run the calculations on total estimated collections against total government expenses? Here's a fun clue for you: The fair tax would massively reduce taxes to the wealthy, no real change for the middle class and would modestly increase taxes for the poor. Did you get it? Massive tax cuts for the rich not replaced by taxes from others.
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. Compare vocabulary and style. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools, TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
Fairtax plan is for city and state governments to pay a brand new, and huge, tax on all their spending. Including a tax on their payroll.
Fairtax Answer Book, page 138. "Under our plan, all city and state government will pay the federal government taxes on all their spending, including spending for labor (wages)."
Where would city and state government GET the $? And why does Fairtax hide this massive new tax in the back of their book, in just one sentence?
The K Street Lobbyists will prevent Congress as it is currently structured from passing anything like the Fairtax. Instead we need the state legislatures to call for a convention to repeal the 16th Amendment and/or restructure Congress. See Article V of the Constitution for how that is done. By restructure Congress I mean repeal the 17th Amendment and drastically increase the size of the House of Representatives.
@forexrobots212 What will happen is the lobbyists will try to engineer it in order to make sure the rich will pay as little as possible and the poor and middle class will get screwed.
@dangerouslytalented As things currently stand, the rich pay less in taxes than people think because most of them do not have significant earned income, which gets taxed the most. Most rich people make or hold their fortune in real estate. They use depreciation to reduce their on paper profit and therefore reduce their taxes. Now I will have to go and buy some office buildings and shopping centers.
Thanks for posting this video. Prices will not rise with the FairTax. When the income tax is removed, prices will drop due to competition. Ask any economics student. That's the beauty of capitalism. The poor will pay no taxes, due to the prebate. MORE people will be paying taxes because illegals and criminals will be contributing the the tax collection. Think about it. Over 300 billion dollars will be eliminated from the collection overhead. That alone will help lower our prices.
The Progressive Income Tax of 1913 started out as about 20 pages. It has since grown to over 18,000!
The Fair Tax as currently debated allows for the tax to be adjusted and manipulated to suit the needs at the time. Who gets to choose what's fair and when and how much it should be adjusted? Isn't this eventually going to lead to the same corruption we currently have?
@BritBoyProductions Don't get the Fair Tax and the Flat Tax confused. The difference is the Flat applies to everyone, where the Fair applies to some to make it "fair" for others. The Fair is just a watered down version of what we currently have now. A Flat tax can't be manipulated to favor one individual or corporation over another as it will remain fixed or "flat". That's why it won't pass, since it would take away the power of the politician. That's why I'm in favor of it! Are you?
@BritBoyProductions So the Fair is only a consumption tax? Does your version also address income and capital gains tax or is it a replacement for them? If it replaces them, is it a variable tax or fixed? I've seen a lot of different suggestions for a Fair Tax and they all have consumption, income and capital gains as variable. What's really fair is a flat, fixed rate for all income and gains; no tax credits or subsidies ... that would be fair.
@Sentry353 This is not a fair tax, this is 'The FairTax' (HR.25/S.296).
It replaces ALL federal taxes with a one time flat rate national retail sales tax on new goods and services only!! No exemptions, no loopholes, no one pays it up to the poverty level. Everyone is treated the same, no special interests, no need for the IRS. You cannot get much fairer and simpler than that!!
@BritBoyProductions Thanks for the reference. This proposed bill begins at 23% with the ability to increase over time, does not replace capital gains, assumes that the income tax will be repealed, and still allows for tax credits and subsidies. Sounds like it's just as corruptable as the current system. S.297 is just another tax added to existing tax policy. S.741 isn't perfect either, but it's a step in the right direction and less corruptable.
@BritBoyProductions Umm, in a nutshell, YES! I read S.296 off the congressional website. It was most recently proposed in January 2009 with many different versions prior to that. The bill as proposed only addresses income, employment, estate and gift taxes, but not capital gains. It doesn't cancel the 16th amendment but recommends repeal. It also still allows for tax credits to individuals and subsidies to businesses. I'm just summarizing the high points of the bill you referenced.
@Sentry353 16th amendment = sunset clause. If the amendment is not repealed within 7 years the system reverts back. Yes it does not directly repeal it, but it takes steps to ensure it does.
With regards to tax credits.....there are no business to business transactions...it is on the final point of retail sale only. Businesses have nothing to credit because they do not pay any taxes as a business....only as individuals.
@BritBoyProductions IF Congress doesn't repeal the 16th the Act will terminate IF they don't take out the sunset for it like they have others, like the Patriot Act. If you believe Congress wouldn't do that, you're nieve. That's why I stated it's another variable tax that's piled on all the others. By the way, are you willing to pay an extra 23% for a car on top of financing and local annual taxes? A consumption tax over 10% is appalling!
@Sentry353 You then have not studied the research behind the bill if you think its just another 23% on top of the current costs. FYI a consumption tax of 10% would not fund the government....23% is revenue neutral....if its too high....thats a government size bill, not a tax reform bill.
@BritBoyProductions I can't help it if that's what the bill says! You have a complaint about that, write Senator Chambliss who sponsored the damn thing.
You bring up another good point. It won't pay for the bloated spending of our government. The spending needs to decrease! Less revenue would pay for a smaller budget. Cut all entitlement programs and the DoD by 50% and we'll be headed in the right direction!
@Sentry353 It WILL pay for the government....AGAIN its revenue neutral. I agree government is too big, but that is another issue entirely. This is a bill to reform how taxes are collected....this is not a 'fix all' bill.
@BritBoyProductions You're right, there is no amount of taxation that will pay for the amount of current government spending.
Passing bills to reform previous bills has caused us nothing but grief for far too long. Whatever happened to short bills with no attached earmarks? Those stopped back in the 1950's! Ah, the good ole days LOL!
@Sentry353 On the point of capital gains......this is new to me and if you could please post the wording where you're seeing that I'd like to research.
@BritBoyProductions Capital Gains Tax is paid by business on profit or individuals on dividends from investments. Neither the S.296 (Fair) or S.741 (Flat) address CGT.
As stated, I went to Congress.org to read the proposed bills. If you would like to discuss differing economist's, I can do that too. My two favorites are Art Laffer and Ben Stein.
I'd love to discuss differeing economists. I like Dale Jorganson, Lawrence Kotlikoff, Barry Popkin, Joseph Pomykala Ph.D, Mattias Polborn, Robert Piron, Jason Smith, Stephen Schmanske, Michael Pippenger, Ben Pierce, Timothy Peterson, Alan Shapiro, Carlos Seiglie, Curtis Taylor, Robert Vigil, John H. wicks Ph.D, Mokhlis Zaki, John Soper, W. James Smith, Vernon Smith, Daniel A. Sumner, Matt Metzgar, Steven Rick, Paul Rubin....list goes on.
@BritBoyProductions It would seem you like all economists and have no favorites ... Ok.
Yes, profits come from sales. The higher the sales tax, the less people buy which leads to lower profits and lower revenues all around. People will find ways to avoid the tax, most notably thru the black market. Cause and effect. This is all demonstrated with the Laffer Curve, supply side economics, and the history of the last 100 years.
@Sentry353 No, my favorites are those that have researched and support the FairTax. Our current tax code involved policing 100 million individuals while the FairTax has the states police 20 million points of retail sale. Yes people will cheat, but it is MUCH harder when 90% of all consumption is through the big box stores.
Again please read the research backing up the bill and it will all become clear!
I don't think you understand how businesses would react when they have no taxes to pay.
@BritBoyProductions I've been reading about both the Fair and Flat tax for over a year now. There really is no definitive answer if congress just replaces a problem with a problem.
Businesses would love to not have to pay taxes. Of course they'll hate the reduction of sales that will come with an extremely high consumption tax too!
@Sentry353 Give 100+ million people a pay increase by keeping their entire paycheck, add on top of that the prebate they'd receive....I don't see people spending less.
@BritBoyProductions You're still assuming that the other taxes will go away, which the current bill proposes will happen, but it's not assured. You're also assuming that the FT will bill resended, which it may not. When Congress starts collecting money they get to spend, they just never want to stop!
When people have to pay more for everyday things, they buy only the necessities which will affect the economy dramatically.
@BritBoyProductions You know what? I bet that you and I could probably hammer out a better amendment to the Constitution or bill on any subject better than any current member of congress. We could do it because I'll bet we could have a rational discussion with the people's best interests in mind instead of our own personal, political interests to get in the way.
@Sentry353 We could...but it would still take congress to pass it.
FYI FairTax is backed with $22 million in privately funded research....government had no involvement in the creation of this bill other than co-sponsorship.
@BritBoyProductions There lies the problem: Congress. What will they squeeze into the final draft? I just wouldn't be suprised if it was something most Americans wouldn't like or agree with, including you.
Who funded the research? What groups pushed for this legislation? In my research, I didn't get that far. I've focused on what was being discussed over who was pushing for the discussion.
@Sentry353 Just like any bill, we must hold congress accountable.
The FairTax was funded by a group of Houston businessmen who were tired of making business decisions based on tax implications rather than what is best for their businesses. These are the people behind Americans for Fair Taxation.
@BritBoyProductions I'll look into them and more into their research, thanks!
Don't get too excited about holding Congress accountable. Once a bill is passed, with or without our approval, it's near impossible to repeal. We can replace them individually thru election, but their disasterous legacy remains!
@asleeperj I'm starting to think he's a straw-man. gets into debates about something he believes is true, with the sole intention of losing the argument.
asleep idiot -- I would LOVE LOVE fairtax to pass retard. I guarantee I want to pass FAR more than the leaders do. They know it's pure bullshit - they know it's a farce. I would LOVE it to pass idiot. PLEASE pass it. You dumb fuck -- the people MOST against Fairtax passing , are the the Faritax leaders.
@asleeperj Damn yes I said it goof ball -- because Fairtax is a farce. Do you fucking know what a farce is? Do you?
Its a deliberate deceptive bullshit - it's not a real plan. There IS no one trying to pass this in Congress. The "sponsors' would shit a fucking brick if it even got a hearing under oath. They KNOW its pure horse shit.
Asleep dumb fuck -- I assume you are an idiot. You said business pay sales taxes under FT. SO you have no fucking clue of anything retard. Fairtax is full of shit, but you have so fucking little knowledge of it --- you don't even know the basic plan of Fairtax. You are honestly too stupid to explain things too
@BullshipDetector Try arguing me on true points, instead of just calling me an idiot. Just compare the coherence of the thoughts i put forth, versus your... "dumb fuck," and "i assume you are an idiot mantra."
Try this, take a deep breath, and argue points of a conversation like a rational human being. It's because you cannot do this, that you find yourself in the dark.
@BullshipDetector Businesses buy things at retail all the time. When a small business goes to the grocery store to buy toilet paper for their business, they pay the inclusive sales tax. It must be hard to have such a feeble mind rattling about in that giant Neanderthal head of yours.
@asleepe do you know why Corporatoins are not for Fairtax? Because its bullshit.
Do you know why retailers are against Fairtax? Because it's bullshit. Do you know why Fairtax "leaders" have avoided hearings under oath for 13 years? Because it's bullshit. Do you know why Fairtax leaders would shit in their pants if they were asked questions under oath? Because it's bullshit/
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Sleep dumb fuck - don't worry about if business will pay the huge sales tax under Fairtax -- because there can never BE a national sales tax to replace all other taxes. A sales tax to replace all other taxes would be 60-90%, said the real economist who studied it, dumb fuck. NO one wants 60% sales tax retard.
Forget for a moment, you dumb fuck, that this plan is a farce.
Why the FUCK should someone with cancer have to pay 200,000 in federal taxes --- when their neighbor, with the same economic activity except cancer- -pays NONE?
Can you answer that you dumb fuck? Do you fucking realize what cancer victims will say about this tax -- if somehow it passed?
You dumb fuck-- it's never going to pass, because it's a FUCKING FARCE
@PerpetualMotionTax You are simply assuming a fact, not in evidence. Quit assuming the fair tax is like the flat tax, in that it is added on top of the current tax structure. This is not true. The argument you keep making is assuming doctors are taxed on income, taxed on capital gains, so on and so forth. The fair tax replaces everything.
Fiartax PRETENDS -- got that dumb fuck -- PRETENDS they will tax the government. That's in their book -- tax the government. That's how their math "adds up".
They know they cant get 2 trillion by taxing the government. They know they can't get 10 cents by taxing the government. But they had to say they will get enough money -- so they lied, by pretending to tax the government.
Asleep - the government can NOT tax itself retard. But taxing the government, you fucking idiot, is how Fairtax gets its math to "work". For example, page 148 of the Fairtax book "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
State and local governments too.
Fairtax is a farce -- the leaders KNOW it's a farce. They are NOT trying to pass it -- they have avoided hearings under oath for 13 years, they know better than anyone how insane it is.
@LiarBoortz It's retail sales. For instance, I go to the doctor in Texas i am not charged a sales tax. Your uninformed. Your prebate is to offset spending on necessities, NOT medical ins coverage.
The income tax was conceived utterly in class hatred.
It employs the communist principle of taking from each according to his accumulation of the fruits of his labor, and giving to others according to their needs, regardless of weather or not those needs are the result of indolence.
asleep dumb fuck -- under Fairtax - you would pay a HUGE tax -- on every dollar you spent at the doctors. Get 300,000 medical bill fighting cancer? Dumb fuck -- pay 100,000 in sales taxes.
Why the FUCK should a cancer victim have to pay 100,000 in sales taxes you fucking idiot? His neighbor might have same income -expenses, but not get cancer. Yet he would have 100K just in sales tax on that alone.
@LiarBoortz I also find it entertaining that you could not argue based on any of the points that i made, you just have to ramble again, about things that are not relevant to the fair tax, such as medical bills.
It is not your job to pay my medical bills, just as it is not my job to pay your housing or car payment.
@LiarBoortz You do not understand how it works. The corporations will pay less in all taxes, those that do not pass the savings on to the consumer will be punished in an open market. This includes medical supply companies. Second of all IT'S ALREADY TAXED. There are already Federal Taxes on doctors, nurses, EVERYTHING, State taxes. You name it it's TAXED. Your effectively arguing my points for me at this rate.
@asleeperj you dumb fuck - it's a FARCE you fucking idiot -- look up the word FARCE you dumb fuck.
Corporations would pay no taxes -- NONE - no business would pay ANY tax. Yet corporations have laughed at it for 13 years dumb fuck. Why? Because it's fucking NONSENSE.
Arguing your points? Is your brain a pile of shit -- or are you just a dumb fuck? I'm telling your dumb fucking ass it's a FARCE you dumb fuck, that their leaders KNOW its a farce, and are not trying to pass it.
@PerpetualMotionTax Corporations would pay sales tax on things they buy. Arguing with you further would be stupid, you obviously do not have the mental capabilities, the ability to make valid points, nor rational thoughts. I know in Neanderthal land, you can call some one a dumb fuck, and pound sand all you like, and that makes a viable argument there. In the real world that just makes you look like the "dumb fuck." When someone loses an argument they get angry. It's okay guy calm down.
no dumb fuck - corps would NOT pay taxes on the things they buy under FT you dumb fuck. How the fuck can you be so stupid?
Did you even read the book dumb fuck? Businesses would pay NO TAXES at all. Got that retard - none, zero. That, you fucking retard, is supposedly why prices will fall so much that the ADDED sales tax to people "will be a wash".
You don't even know the FT crap, you idiot. How the fuck could you possibly know enough to write here about it.
@12FlyMe That's strange. I pay retail sales tax when i buy things for my business. Some of which i can write off at the federal level (which i wouldn't have to do under the fair tax), but you don't seem to understand that.
asleep you are strange, I dont give a shit what you pay now idiot -- under Fairtax businesses don't pay any taxes - -at al. No FICA, no income, no corporate, NOTHING. Got that retard? At least know your own fucking plan you trying to promoted, dumb fuck.
So you are one complete dumb fuck - you don't even know Fairtax gets rid of all taxes businesses pay. Can you get any dumber?
@BullshipDetector You are assuming that these business don't have people who get payed who buy things. You are assuming these businesses do not have to buy anything. Your assumptions are wrong. Business buy things all the time. People who are employed buy things ALL the TIME.
Yes it gets rid of all taxes and REPLACES THEM with a sales tax. You ALREADY pay a minimum of 22% in embedded taxes on everything you buy. Those disappear. Saying dumb fuck, makes you look like an idiot. Your uneducated.
@LiarBoortz You said "the government can NOT tax itself retard;" however, you also said "If a massive tax ON GOVERNMENT is such a great way..." So who exactly IS taxing the government. These are your words, not mine. You're obviously not one for the logical train of thought.
If a massive tax on government is such a great way to raise revenue -- why isn't anyone else on earth doing it?
Furthermore, if a massive tax on government is such a great way to raise revenue -- why did Fairtax hide this in one or two sentences in the back of the book?
Why not put that on page 1? I mean -- they arent trying to hide this bullshit, are they?
don't forget the 5 pages in the next book explaining it. But why wouldn't you mention that? The side you criticize "hides" facts by writing it in both books. You hide by not mentioning facts at all.
You might want to get your hypocrisy looked at. it may turn into a debilitating schizophrenia.
@LiarBoortz Try making coherent thoughts next time. It works a whole lot better than rambling. How can a government tax itself? The money is raised through productive citizens. A consumption tax punishes those who consume the most. Those that need help get a prebate from the government.
Ask your self this. Why does the EU require at least a 15 percent Value added tax?
Easy answer... To stop tax competition, so that business don't migrate to the lower taxed burdened countries.
I love the Fair Tax idea & ideal. So looking forward to the day when trillions of US dollars can return home, unpenalized, from offshore accts. Will refresh & energize our jobs, economics, big time!
zig you wont do shit when Fairtax passes -- cause it's fucking bullshit. It's a farce -- got that? Its a fucking farce,, and it's "leaders" know it's a farce.
See dumb ass -- they pretend to get most tax revenue FROM the government. That's right idiot - FROM the government.
And they hide this turd in their fine print for a REASON They hide it because that's the only way their shit can "add up"
Simply amazed at sheer ignorance represented in comments made here. Fair Tax is perphaps too simple for many to grasp. Not surprising after being so entrenched in our current behemoth tax code that literally no one person understands, that's regressive, that's wreaking havoc on America's citizens.
Fairtax hides this massive, unprecendented, insane fucking tax on government way in the back of the book, in a way they hope stupid fucks won't notice.
Stupid fucks like you.
Here is a clue -- they can't tax the government. They pretend to -- but they can't do it. It's insane. It's physically impossible.
More importantly, they pretend to get this tax money, so on paper their "math" adds up.
Guess what that means, dumb fuck -- it means their math doesn't add up
umm dude your intelligence is only exceeded by your stupidity and it really shows in your text.
Oh i forgot liberal retards with multiple names. trying to clown people are just indoctrinated kool aide drinkers, sucking up everything that comes out of a liberals mouth. get some common sense and drop the ignorance before you reply you trolling moron.
A tax by definition says, "someone is getting screwed." So how can a fair tax? The FairTax is a way for Neil Boortz to make money it has nothing to do with actual economics. Putting all your taxes in one basket is STUPID. Proponents are calling it a grass roots movement. It's a bowel movement with the middle class getting screwed again.
Yes, you get to keep 100% of your paycheck, but these days most people SPEND 100% of their paycheck. Who do you think holds all the credit card debt? Not the guy who makes $10 million a year and who also gets to keep 100% of what they make.
Keep the Capital Gains tax, the tax on dividends and the estate tax and your 23% sales tax would be lower. Now that's getting fair. The more money you make the fairer this tax is.
Capital gains tax should be dropped (or eliminated) to the lowest in the world. The United States should become a tax haven so people would invest here from all over the world. That would create massive amounts of jobs.
You want the government to wipe your ass I guess? I don't.
I can spend my money better than the government, maybe you can't?
You wake up, Socialist. This country was not founded on high taxes.
And how do you make money? BY WORKING HARD or being an Innovator. Why on earth would you punish that?
As these people start to pay taxes, they will ask? Hmmmm, what is all this money being used for???? That is where Gov spending gets reformed, and how lowering the NRST follows.
You fucking gullible moron. How fucking stupid can you be, and still exhale? Do you just fall over dead when you get this stupid? So EVERYONE gets a huge raise on their paychecks, NO one pays taxes, corporations and business pay nothing, and all we have to do is buy the shit we buy now, at the same price. You fucking dumb shit. Is there any shit your dumb ass will NOT believe??
If you believe that everything you buy now will be the same price after a 23% Sales Tax, your the dumb ass. Embedded taxes (smoke and mirrors) included the price of goods will go up.
Recommend you read the Fair Tax book before making false assertions re HR 25. Seems you don't quite understand embedded taxes. Understand it thoroughly & you may come to different conclusion.
Got plenty of studies that back us up. how bout you. sources?
Go on tell us about the how we FT rips off Cancer patients (for around 20% less then our current system)
Or how city and state governments won't support a new tax (that replaces the old taxes at a small savings to the respective governing bodies)
Those are my favorites, Mark. Then start repetitively cursing at me. call me a "dumb fuck" twice in the same sentence. And use 25 different accounts to do it with.
David dumb fuck - -FT is a farce a fairy tale, It just proves how fucking stupid people like you are. Fucking hell you moron -- did you fucking ever hear of critical thinking/?
No one pays a dime of taxes - we all get huge raises on our pay checks -- no corp taxes, social security -- NO fucking taxes, by ANYONE -- just buy the same shit we buy now - at the same price, and magically everyone gets rich.
i like DontTrustTaxCons comments. they are easy to spot for what they are. trace his name to his home page and you will notice that he has only visited and commented on a few videos. all of them about the fair tax and all of his comments are against it. i sense someone being paid to post comments against the fair tax. what real person would join youtube and only look at fair tax videos, a snake in the grass isnt that hard to spot when he leaves his tail out in plain sight
Our standard of living will increase with the FairTax, because our tax burden (per person) will drop, and because costs of production will drop. The tax burden will be thinned out because illegals and criminals will start paying, finally. Lower production costs will let companies lower prices while maintaining profit margin, because the tax code "compliance" cost will drop. This cost right now is about $900 per person per year. The poor will be "untaxed" without any lines to wait, too!
How about NO TAX? A tax on your labor is NOT supported by law. Wake up! They tax your right to work in support of your own life and expect you to go along with a new tax that will give their crimes credence? F... them. Americans wake up! Grab your muskets! Grow some balls and drag the whole D.C. gang into the streets and hang them on live T.V.
David, pay no attention to 'flyme' he is a known youtube spammer. Goes around every Fair Tax video and cannot stop posting at all. He goes by at least 10 different names: flyme, farcetax, truthmatterstome, tubetaxpro, don'ttrusttaxcons, etc.
I made a FairTax video as well, and I have marked all of his posts as spam. I suggest you do the same. It is a waste of time speaking to "him." That person has been presented with fact after fact, and its head says the same thing.
Maybe by the time you get your degree in economics you'll learn some math. A 23% sales tax would be a lot lower if you kept capital gains, dividends, and estate taxes. The more money you make the fairer this tax is.
Sounds like the words of a person who desires NOTHING more than to "just barely get by" and let someone else bear the burden, created by vote craving scallywags.
I have many desires. One of them is not to pay a higher tax rate to give the super wealthy a free ride. And I'm getting by nicely, thanks for your concern. But my money is made off of hard work not from buying low and selling high. With the FairTax hard working middle class Americans have to pay a higher tax to allow rich people to keep their Capital Gains. The FairTax puts the burden on the middle class.
You do realize that the poor pay the same embedded tax on products and services today, right? You realize there is embedded taxes in cancer treatments and rent and food and everything else right now, right? Poor or not, we all pay those same taxes today.
Fairtax you dumb ass would be the highest sales tax on earth -- on the poor. The poor get 198 dollars a month -- but no more.
The 198 wont cover the sales tax on their rent you fucking idiot.
There are NO exceptions under fairtax -- none. Zero . So the poor - or someone -- has to pay the high sales tax on all rent, medical, utilities, food, phone bills, gas, whatever.
Its a huge fucking tax on the poor you fucking idiot.
Its based on getting over a trillion dollars a year FROM the government -- in sales taxes the government PAYS itself.
Yes -- its THAT fuching stupid.
By getting MOST of the taxes FROM the government -- Fairtax claims their taxes wouldnt cost ANYTHING - cause all prices will go DOWN by the sales tax amount, So they can tax all the sales tax they want -- its FREE -- prices will go down!!! 2+2=5, therefore, I am the pope.
Sounds like a flat tax. If so, that is unfair to lower income people. Fair Tax is more equitable across all income ranges. And no 2 page tax return needed. No tax return is better!
The Fair tax is revenue neutral. Whatever the rate has to be, it only has to be equal with what we're already paying. Anyone who bitches about the cost of the fair tax obviously doesn't realize how much they're already paying. People working at minimum wage are guaranteed to take home more money under the Fair tax because employers will not be able to cut wages any lower once income and payroll taxes are no longer being deducted. On top of that, the prebate will compensate them for the fair tax.
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
Fairtax is a farce. It has so much BS, don't know where to start. First of all, Boortz admits that ALLAmericans have to VOLUNTARILY -- ALL - tax a 30% cut on our pay, for the numbers to work. Bullshit, we aren't ALL going to VOLUNTARILY take a cut in pay. That's just the START. Its absolute BS.
you r the one who is bs if u dont think it will work why dont you address mr boortz on his radio show , his number is 1-877-310-2100 and debate him, the fair tax would pull us out of this recession we are in, it doesnt punish over achievers and white collar workers and i am a supporter of capitalism,, paying taxes through the goods and services that you buy doesnt punish anyone, as far as theyre income is concerned and ppl like you are critical with out knowing everything on the fair tax
Do everyone a favor and actually read about the fairtax - from the actual fairtax website. You can even get the actual bill to read too. It's not that difficult to comprehend.
Real quick though: IRS gone, income tax gone. Fed now funded through national sales tax. Instead of taxing productivity, we tax consumption. You replace one system with another.
Yes it is always immediately obvious when someone has not read anything about the FairTax. Usually, they've read nonsense from another site from which they've based their errant opinions.
It would be nice if you have an opinion on the FairTax you first read the book, the 133page bill or any of the research by bonefide economists. So many people have some really odd complaints about FairTax that only shows they're sources are either uninformed or purposefully putting out misinformation.
Theres nothing fair about the fair tax plan. you can keep telling yourself its aimed at immigrants but its yet another tax break for the rich. a 28% sales tax affects the poor, not just illegal immigrants. we're trying to make it so the rich can pocket the other 25,000$ a week they make that they dont need to spend on gas and groceries. Who should Provide more tax revenue, illegal immigrants or these 200 million a year making C.E.O.s? time to stop being patriotic and wake the fuck up.
A graduate (economics) knows that wealth consolidates (the bases of the game Monopoly) Because of this economic law, when we did not have income tax in the 1900's we had Robber Barrons, monopolies, trusts and indentured servitude (slavery through debt -white people by the way) and ZERO middle class.
A middle class is ARTIFICIALLY created with taxes and wealth redistribution.
How does a Fair tax redistribute to avoid the law of wealth consolidation?
"In the aggregate, 'some' households would not be as well off for the first couple of years. However, a stronger incentive to invest and save would cut into consumption, and the greater incentive to work would cut into leisure."
What that means: Once people learn that they'll be bringing home what they earn, they'll have the incentive to be more productive. More productive, more money for spending and saving. Yes, the more you work, the less time you'll have for leisure. But that's your choice.
Incorrect, as usual. What it means is that to tread water, just staying even with where they were before, they would have to work more to have the same quality of life.
What part of "would not be as well off" can you not understand?
It would not even take a year for the prices to balance out. Once the fair tax plan was in place, the pressures put on producers and distributers by federal taxes would be removed. This means that it would cost them significantly less to operate. They would be tempted to hold out and avoid lowering prices, but business is a competitive world and maybe the companies who are doing well would be willing to hold out but the ones who are struggling for a foothold would just under cut the market.
Earn $10k - $150k a year? Want to pay more taxes and have less leisure time on average? Then the FT/NST is the wacko tax for you!
"In the aggregate, some households* would not be as well off for the first couple of years**. However, a stronger incentive to invest and save would cut into consumption, and the greater incentive to work would cut into leisure."
If you are a fan of this tax, I am imploring you, open your mind, and please read and understand Table 11 (on page 31), concerning "Utility"(essentially, well-being) results yearly across income groups if the FT were to pass, at the following link on the FT backers' own site:
MakeMyPoser aka MarkDouglasC aka TaxSanity aka MyBookDeal is actually Mark Douglas Curran. He lives in Quincy, Illinois. He's a 56 year old convicted child molester. He was caught fondling a 6 year old boy. I know this because I live in Quincy. I thought you all should know. He is not a mentally stable person, as you can probably tell from his comments.
Income taxes are absurd. If you refuse to pay, you get arrested. If you resist arrest, you get shot and killed. That's not liberty and justice for all, it's tyranny.
The Fair tax is fair. If you don't want to pay the tax, you can choose to buy used goods instead of new goods. Or, you can save your money and invest it. You keep every penny you earn and nobody gets arrested or shot to death for not meeting their spending quota.
Are you mental? Ever hear of used cancer surgery? Cause you idiots tax that. Ever get used rent you moron? Cause you morons tax rent -- not just tax it, but put the HIGHEST SALES tax on earth -- on rent.
Ever get USED gasoline moron? Gasoline tax would go from 18 cents to 1.50 for SALES tax. How about used nursing home care?
Can you buy USED car insurance -- cause your idiot farce tax is on car insurance too.
Europe has both VAT/sales tax -AND- income taxes. Governments here say that VAT is the best tax, easy enforcement and highest yield of all taxes. Income tax is kept in the loop basicaly to spy on you, intimidate you, potentially criminalize you and to keep the accountant industry happy.
To properly compare the Fair Tax with income taxes, have to use the "inclusive" rate of 23%. To properly compare the Fair Tax with state sales taxes, you have to use the "exclusive" rate of 30%. It assumes that the cost savings to businesses of eliminating the income tax will reduce current prices by an average of 23%. So this 30% would only apply to 77% of current prices, on average.
Look at these idiots debating if its 23 or 30! Thats like a first grader wondering if he will be president, or an astronaut, this summer. Creative fantasy for a kid -- bullshit farce for an adult. Fairtax is bullshit -- total bullshit.
Actually, on the fairtax website, I read that more recent estimates put the federal sales tax lower than the original 23% which means that there could be a price drop.
There is no guarentee that prices will fall by the amount businesses save from income taxes. That means prices will rise and the prebate won't be enough to cover it. What would cover it is a federal income credit based on the concept of the "social credit" by Scottish engineer Major C. H. Douglas. For every dollar a person earns, the government would add a flat % bonus to cover the natural disparity between the collective incomes of all consumers and the total cost of all goods and services.
The Fairtax is different from what you describe. Prices will not rise, as the Fairtax eliminates all embedded taxes on goods (equal to 22%, FT rate is 23%). so companies would be saving a large sum of money, and one of two things will happen: competition will drive prices down (as proven when an airline tax was accidentally dropped some years back) or people will know that companies are saving a ton of money without passing on those savings, leading to boycotts.
I agree in general but, to clear, the 23% is just an average. Some things (mostly massed produced things in which the costs of labor are lower than average) will rise in price. Not by a full 23%, that would imply a cost savings of 0% which would be nonesense.
As a non-market leader, companies would seize on the opportunity to increase their market share by dropping prices. It's as easy as that and is ALWAYS the case.
although there is no garunteed price drop built into the plan, one already exists in the market today. Competition. In todays market at any given time there are always businesses thriving and some struggling to survive. The ones that are not doing so well would be quick to undercut their competitors and gain a foothold in the marketplace. It's either do that or let your business die.
I agree but, there is very little real competition in our economy. The only reason some businesses thrive while others struggle is because of patents. Real competition can't exist as long as companies have exclusive control over the production of specific products. Consumers can buy from different retailers but, prices are the same. Real competition requires that all companies have the right to produce any thing without any abligations or limitations, except for the use of trademarks, of course.
You're wrong. Most corporations don't even own any patents. Besides, patents expire after a set time, to prevent just what you've described.
There is plenty of competition in many areas, despite what you may think. Especially among the retailers you mention.
If anything, there is a lack of competition in highly subsidized and/or regulated industries, as in automobiles, aircraft, and commercial banking. The demands of the state are too expensive for upstarts.
Most corporations are also small businesses. I'm only talking about the handful of large corporations that sell most of the goods we buy. They own tons of patents. They create the illusion of competition but not nearly enough to prevent collusion. Your last comment I completely agree with. The combination of federal patent grants, regulated and subsidized industries, bailouts, and state and local red tape are all designed to kill competition and opportunity and keep us all employed and taxed.
those are 3 of the MOST DEregulated industries in america.Actually, the american auto companies cant compete with toyota and other import companies because ford pays its workers a fair wage and retirement, toyota doesnt have the "burden" of paying their workers retirement plans, so they can sell a similar car for much cheaper than the american counter-part. the tax breaks to foreign auto companies are to blame. After you work for a company for 30 years, they owe you more than a fuckin pinkslip.
I'd say commercial banking is VERY heavily regulated, and I believe aircraft is as well.
You know, I don't really know much about the auto industry, but I would assume it's highly subsidized, given the failures you mention. But you also mention tax breaks for non-domestics, so I dunno.
Of course if you're comparing any of those industries to pharma, then, yeah, they aren't THAT regulated.
Competition my butt. Fairtax isn't counting on competition -- thats a smoke screen. Look at what Neal Boortz said the price drops will come from -- WAGE cuts. Only, he calls them "readjust your pay figures" which means wage cut -- for 100 million Americans.
Don't believe anything Fairtax says. They knowingly mislead you. This lunatic plan to cut wages isnt even in HR25, but its what their whole "math" is based on. You are being conned.
You were surprised fairtax had support? Why? it sounds good. Everything is magically FREE. We dont pay taxes, we just buy stuff and the tax included. But prices wont go UP, cause the price of everything will go DOWN. SO its magic. Plus, we get a check start of month to pay our taxes. So not only is everything FREE -we get a check!. Who could be against that?
Fair tax is lunatic math. For two reasons. 1) it would have to be a 50% sales tax, not 23, on houses, cars, medical cost, etc. Such a high sales tax would decimate the economy.. 2) YOu dont save any "embeded cost" because you STILL have sales tax to pay - so that would be passed along, just like income tax cost is now passed along.
Fair tax has crap backing it up. THese morons have a 23% tax on government spending. Just think of this you moron. They have to including gov spending or the 23% doesnt work. THe problem is, gov would have to RAISE the money it needs to pay its taxes. So it can not be 23%. Thats just one thing.
Another thing. Do you think nursing home cost will pay 23%? Rent? New home sales? Hell no. But all those things are included.Medical surgeries taxed 23%? Hell no. They will all get exemptions. The 23 only works if there are NO exemptions. As exemptions pile up -- the 23 goes to 30-to 35-to 40. It will fall like the idiot house of cards it is. Your emperor is a naked jerk boys, learn some logic, some math, some economics/
There will be no exemptions, hence the "unkindly" tax on healthcare & rent. No medical or other exemptions to prevent lobbying. Everyone will have their full income- thus "extra" money each month - to pay for their rent on tax & medical bills. Everyone, rich or poor, will also get the monthly prebate to help pay for the taxes on living necessities (e.g. rent, food).
Nursing homes & health insurance companies will also no longer pay income tax or other taxes, except on the purchase of goods.
And one other question no one has answered. If fairtax is supposed to support social security, and IRS is eliminated, who is keeping track of income, and social security/welfare elegibility?
132 -- good point. One I never thought of. But FT is stupid on so many other reasons, I never got to that one. The real problem with FT is, it cant possibly remotely work, not at 23%, cause one group after another will get exemptions - renters, new home buyers, nursing homes, surgery, medical bills. It can only be 23 if there are NO exemptions. They even have gov paying 23% on military spending. Its insane.
that is the beauty. there must be no exemptions, not even the government. If the government got exemptions and it provides a service that the private sector offers as well, the government would have a distinct advantage
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Do you really want to raise taxes on the middle classes (those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year) while lowering the taxes of the wealthy (those making more than $150,000 a year), lucidcity?
You might want to look at the data-- even the SUPPORTING org's data shows that this "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of the middle classes. See tinyurl 593htl, pages 30-on, particularly Table 13 years 7-8 and 15-16 to see one trick they try.
Diskatopia 2 months ago
Horray! Let's tax the poor. We can spare the rich a modest tax cut by seizing 1/2 of everything the bottom 50% of US citizens own. Let's do it!
dtorfleming 4 months ago
@dtorfleming
are you stupid or simply ignorant? the fair tax is a consumption tax, and it gets rid of all other taxes! Yeah, if the bottom 50% were able to keep their entire paycheck, and then only get taxed on what they buy..., you tell us what wrong with that!!
DMurrayx2 4 months ago
@DMurrayx2
The fair tax is awesome for people with poor math skills. Have you run the calculations on total estimated collections against total government expenses? Here's a fun clue for you: The fair tax would massively reduce taxes to the wealthy, no real change for the middle class and would modestly increase taxes for the poor. Did you get it? Massive tax cuts for the rich not replaced by taxes from others.
It's a scam designed just for you.
dtorfleming 4 months ago
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For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
Love it!
hrsweat0097 8 months ago
Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. Compare vocabulary and style. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools, TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
urgener 1 year ago
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Fairtax plan is for city and state governments to pay a brand new, and huge, tax on all their spending. Including a tax on their payroll.
Fairtax Answer Book, page 138. "Under our plan, all city and state government will pay the federal government taxes on all their spending, including spending for labor (wages)."
Where would city and state government GET the $? And why does Fairtax hide this massive new tax in the back of their book, in just one sentence?
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
The K Street Lobbyists will prevent Congress as it is currently structured from passing anything like the Fairtax. Instead we need the state legislatures to call for a convention to repeal the 16th Amendment and/or restructure Congress. See Article V of the Constitution for how that is done. By restructure Congress I mean repeal the 17th Amendment and drastically increase the size of the House of Representatives.
forexrobots212 1 year ago
@forexrobots212 What will happen is the lobbyists will try to engineer it in order to make sure the rich will pay as little as possible and the poor and middle class will get screwed.
dangerouslytalented 1 year ago
@dangerouslytalented As things currently stand, the rich pay less in taxes than people think because most of them do not have significant earned income, which gets taxed the most. Most rich people make or hold their fortune in real estate. They use depreciation to reduce their on paper profit and therefore reduce their taxes. Now I will have to go and buy some office buildings and shopping centers.
forexrobots212 1 year ago
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Thanks for posting this video. Prices will not rise with the FairTax. When the income tax is removed, prices will drop due to competition. Ask any economics student. That's the beauty of capitalism. The poor will pay no taxes, due to the prebate. MORE people will be paying taxes because illegals and criminals will be contributing the the tax collection. Think about it. Over 300 billion dollars will be eliminated from the collection overhead. That alone will help lower our prices.
urgener 1 year ago
The Progressive Income Tax of 1913 started out as about 20 pages. It has since grown to over 18,000!
The Fair Tax as currently debated allows for the tax to be adjusted and manipulated to suit the needs at the time. Who gets to choose what's fair and when and how much it should be adjusted? Isn't this eventually going to lead to the same corruption we currently have?
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 64,000 to be more precise!!
How can you manipulate one rate everyone pays? There are no exemptions and no loopholes.
Anything can be corrupted as long as politicians are not held accountable and the populous remains asleep expecting someone else to do something.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions Don't get the Fair Tax and the Flat Tax confused. The difference is the Flat applies to everyone, where the Fair applies to some to make it "fair" for others. The Fair is just a watered down version of what we currently have now. A Flat tax can't be manipulated to favor one individual or corporation over another as it will remain fixed or "flat". That's why it won't pass, since it would take away the power of the politician. That's why I'm in favor of it! Are you?
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 FairTax is a consumption tax which EVERYONE pays.
A flat tax applies to income and is only paid by those working!
I work with Oklahoma FairTax on their Research & Education Committee....and you have them confused I'm afraid.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions So the Fair is only a consumption tax? Does your version also address income and capital gains tax or is it a replacement for them? If it replaces them, is it a variable tax or fixed? I've seen a lot of different suggestions for a Fair Tax and they all have consumption, income and capital gains as variable. What's really fair is a flat, fixed rate for all income and gains; no tax credits or subsidies ... that would be fair.
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 This is not a fair tax, this is 'The FairTax' (HR.25/S.296).
It replaces ALL federal taxes with a one time flat rate national retail sales tax on new goods and services only!! No exemptions, no loopholes, no one pays it up to the poverty level. Everyone is treated the same, no special interests, no need for the IRS. You cannot get much fairer and simpler than that!!
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions Thanks for the reference. This proposed bill begins at 23% with the ability to increase over time, does not replace capital gains, assumes that the income tax will be repealed, and still allows for tax credits and subsidies. Sounds like it's just as corruptable as the current system. S.297 is just another tax added to existing tax policy. S.741 isn't perfect either, but it's a step in the right direction and less corruptable.
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 Ummmm, in a nutshell....'NO!'
The FairTax replaces the entire federal tax code...capital gains included!
There are no tax credits or subsidies....I have NO IDEA what bill you are reading.
The rate is 23% inclusive....it can go up or down just like any tax rate...only the 23% FairTax if raised is raised on EVERYONE!
I think you are still confusing this bill with another bill.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions Umm, in a nutshell, YES! I read S.296 off the congressional website. It was most recently proposed in January 2009 with many different versions prior to that. The bill as proposed only addresses income, employment, estate and gift taxes, but not capital gains. It doesn't cancel the 16th amendment but recommends repeal. It also still allows for tax credits to individuals and subsidies to businesses. I'm just summarizing the high points of the bill you referenced.
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 16th amendment = sunset clause. If the amendment is not repealed within 7 years the system reverts back. Yes it does not directly repeal it, but it takes steps to ensure it does.
With regards to tax credits.....there are no business to business transactions...it is on the final point of retail sale only. Businesses have nothing to credit because they do not pay any taxes as a business....only as individuals.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions IF Congress doesn't repeal the 16th the Act will terminate IF they don't take out the sunset for it like they have others, like the Patriot Act. If you believe Congress wouldn't do that, you're nieve. That's why I stated it's another variable tax that's piled on all the others. By the way, are you willing to pay an extra 23% for a car on top of financing and local annual taxes? A consumption tax over 10% is appalling!
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 You then have not studied the research behind the bill if you think its just another 23% on top of the current costs. FYI a consumption tax of 10% would not fund the government....23% is revenue neutral....if its too high....thats a government size bill, not a tax reform bill.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions I can't help it if that's what the bill says! You have a complaint about that, write Senator Chambliss who sponsored the damn thing.
You bring up another good point. It won't pay for the bloated spending of our government. The spending needs to decrease! Less revenue would pay for a smaller budget. Cut all entitlement programs and the DoD by 50% and we'll be headed in the right direction!
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 It WILL pay for the government....AGAIN its revenue neutral. I agree government is too big, but that is another issue entirely. This is a bill to reform how taxes are collected....this is not a 'fix all' bill.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions You're right, there is no amount of taxation that will pay for the amount of current government spending.
Passing bills to reform previous bills has caused us nothing but grief for far too long. Whatever happened to short bills with no attached earmarks? Those stopped back in the 1950's! Ah, the good ole days LOL!
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 On the point of capital gains......this is new to me and if you could please post the wording where you're seeing that I'd like to research.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions Capital Gains Tax is paid by business on profit or individuals on dividends from investments. Neither the S.296 (Fair) or S.741 (Flat) address CGT.
As stated, I went to Congress.org to read the proposed bills. If you would like to discuss differing economist's, I can do that too. My two favorites are Art Laffer and Ben Stein.
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 Where do profits come from? Sales!
I'd love to discuss differeing economists. I like Dale Jorganson, Lawrence Kotlikoff, Barry Popkin, Joseph Pomykala Ph.D, Mattias Polborn, Robert Piron, Jason Smith, Stephen Schmanske, Michael Pippenger, Ben Pierce, Timothy Peterson, Alan Shapiro, Carlos Seiglie, Curtis Taylor, Robert Vigil, John H. wicks Ph.D, Mokhlis Zaki, John Soper, W. James Smith, Vernon Smith, Daniel A. Sumner, Matt Metzgar, Steven Rick, Paul Rubin....list goes on.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions It would seem you like all economists and have no favorites ... Ok.
Yes, profits come from sales. The higher the sales tax, the less people buy which leads to lower profits and lower revenues all around. People will find ways to avoid the tax, most notably thru the black market. Cause and effect. This is all demonstrated with the Laffer Curve, supply side economics, and the history of the last 100 years.
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 No, my favorites are those that have researched and support the FairTax. Our current tax code involved policing 100 million individuals while the FairTax has the states police 20 million points of retail sale. Yes people will cheat, but it is MUCH harder when 90% of all consumption is through the big box stores.
Again please read the research backing up the bill and it will all become clear!
I don't think you understand how businesses would react when they have no taxes to pay.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions I've been reading about both the Fair and Flat tax for over a year now. There really is no definitive answer if congress just replaces a problem with a problem.
Businesses would love to not have to pay taxes. Of course they'll hate the reduction of sales that will come with an extremely high consumption tax too!
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 Give 100+ million people a pay increase by keeping their entire paycheck, add on top of that the prebate they'd receive....I don't see people spending less.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions You're still assuming that the other taxes will go away, which the current bill proposes will happen, but it's not assured. You're also assuming that the FT will bill resended, which it may not. When Congress starts collecting money they get to spend, they just never want to stop!
When people have to pay more for everyday things, they buy only the necessities which will affect the economy dramatically.
Sentry353 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions You know what? I bet that you and I could probably hammer out a better amendment to the Constitution or bill on any subject better than any current member of congress. We could do it because I'll bet we could have a rational discussion with the people's best interests in mind instead of our own personal, political interests to get in the way.
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 We could...but it would still take congress to pass it.
FYI FairTax is backed with $22 million in privately funded research....government had no involvement in the creation of this bill other than co-sponsorship.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions There lies the problem: Congress. What will they squeeze into the final draft? I just wouldn't be suprised if it was something most Americans wouldn't like or agree with, including you.
Who funded the research? What groups pushed for this legislation? In my research, I didn't get that far. I've focused on what was being discussed over who was pushing for the discussion.
Sentry353 1 year ago
@Sentry353 Just like any bill, we must hold congress accountable.
The FairTax was funded by a group of Houston businessmen who were tired of making business decisions based on tax implications rather than what is best for their businesses. These are the people behind Americans for Fair Taxation.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago
@BritBoyProductions I'll look into them and more into their research, thanks!
Don't get too excited about holding Congress accountable. Once a bill is passed, with or without our approval, it's near impossible to repeal. We can replace them individually thru election, but their disasterous legacy remains!
Sentry353 1 year ago
Bah, Don't listen to Any of Mark's 23 identities. He uses the same 3 talking flawed talking points over and over. He's just trolling.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
@laudanum4u Is he the one who keeps calling me a "dumb fuck," I still find it fun to prove him wrong EVERY time. Adds to my ego. Lol.
asleeperj 1 year ago
@asleeperj I'm starting to think he's a straw-man. gets into debates about something he believes is true, with the sole intention of losing the argument.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
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asleep idiot -- I would LOVE LOVE fairtax to pass retard. I guarantee I want to pass FAR more than the leaders do. They know it's pure bullshit - they know it's a farce. I would LOVE it to pass idiot. PLEASE pass it. You dumb fuck -- the people MOST against Fairtax passing , are the the Faritax leaders.
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector "The people MOST against Fair tax passing, are the the Fair tax leaders."
LoL You truly are an idiot. You said it your self. Just look.
asleeperj 1 year ago
@asleeperj Damn yes I said it goof ball -- because Fairtax is a farce. Do you fucking know what a farce is? Do you?
Its a deliberate deceptive bullshit - it's not a real plan. There IS no one trying to pass this in Congress. The "sponsors' would shit a fucking brick if it even got a hearing under oath. They KNOW its pure horse shit.
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
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Asleep dumb fuck -- I assume you are an idiot. You said business pay sales taxes under FT. SO you have no fucking clue of anything retard. Fairtax is full of shit, but you have so fucking little knowledge of it --- you don't even know the basic plan of Fairtax. You are honestly too stupid to explain things too
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector Try arguing me on true points, instead of just calling me an idiot. Just compare the coherence of the thoughts i put forth, versus your... "dumb fuck," and "i assume you are an idiot mantra."
Try this, take a deep breath, and argue points of a conversation like a rational human being. It's because you cannot do this, that you find yourself in the dark.
asleeperj 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector Businesses buy things at retail all the time. When a small business goes to the grocery store to buy toilet paper for their business, they pay the inclusive sales tax. It must be hard to have such a feeble mind rattling about in that giant Neanderthal head of yours.
asleeperj 1 year ago
@asleepe do you know why Corporatoins are not for Fairtax? Because its bullshit.
Do you know why retailers are against Fairtax? Because it's bullshit. Do you know why Fairtax "leaders" have avoided hearings under oath for 13 years? Because it's bullshit. Do you know why Fairtax leaders would shit in their pants if they were asked questions under oath? Because it's bullshit/
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
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Sleep dumb fuck - don't worry about if business will pay the huge sales tax under Fairtax -- because there can never BE a national sales tax to replace all other taxes. A sales tax to replace all other taxes would be 60-90%, said the real economist who studied it, dumb fuck. NO one wants 60% sales tax retard.
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
Forget for a moment, you dumb fuck, that this plan is a farce.
Why the FUCK should someone with cancer have to pay 200,000 in federal taxes --- when their neighbor, with the same economic activity except cancer- -pays NONE?
Can you answer that you dumb fuck? Do you fucking realize what cancer victims will say about this tax -- if somehow it passed?
You dumb fuck-- it's never going to pass, because it's a FUCKING FARCE
PerpetualMotionTax 1 year ago
@PerpetualMotionTax You are simply assuming a fact, not in evidence. Quit assuming the fair tax is like the flat tax, in that it is added on top of the current tax structure. This is not true. The argument you keep making is assuming doctors are taxed on income, taxed on capital gains, so on and so forth. The fair tax replaces everything.
asleeperj 1 year ago
Fiartax PRETENDS -- got that dumb fuck -- PRETENDS they will tax the government. That's in their book -- tax the government. That's how their math "adds up".
They know they cant get 2 trillion by taxing the government. They know they can't get 10 cents by taxing the government. But they had to say they will get enough money -- so they lied, by pretending to tax the government.
See that yet dumb ass?
12FlyMe 1 year ago
Asleep - the government can NOT tax itself retard. But taxing the government, you fucking idiot, is how Fairtax gets its math to "work". For example, page 148 of the Fairtax book "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer"
State and local governments too.
Fairtax is a farce -- the leaders KNOW it's a farce. They are NOT trying to pass it -- they have avoided hearings under oath for 13 years, they know better than anyone how insane it is.
LiarBoortz 1 year ago
@LiarBoortz It's retail sales. For instance, I go to the doctor in Texas i am not charged a sales tax. Your uninformed. Your prebate is to offset spending on necessities, NOT medical ins coverage.
The income tax was conceived utterly in class hatred.
It employs the communist principle of taking from each according to his accumulation of the fruits of his labor, and giving to others according to their needs, regardless of weather or not those needs are the result of indolence.
asleeperj 1 year ago
asleep dumb fuck -- under Fairtax - you would pay a HUGE tax -- on every dollar you spent at the doctors. Get 300,000 medical bill fighting cancer? Dumb fuck -- pay 100,000 in sales taxes.
Why the FUCK should a cancer victim have to pay 100,000 in sales taxes you fucking idiot? His neighbor might have same income -expenses, but not get cancer. Yet he would have 100K just in sales tax on that alone.
Face it you dumb fuck -- FT is a fucking hoax
LiarBoortz 1 year ago
@LiarBoortz I also find it entertaining that you could not argue based on any of the points that i made, you just have to ramble again, about things that are not relevant to the fair tax, such as medical bills.
It is not your job to pay my medical bills, just as it is not my job to pay your housing or car payment.
asleeperj 1 year ago
Asleep you fucking idiot - do you even know that the huge sales tax from FT is on all medical bills? Cancer surgery, nursing homes, whatever.
Do you even fucking know that retard? So tell me dumb fuck - how will the millions of poor people pay that tax - or rich for that matter you idiot.
LiarBoortz 1 year ago
@LiarBoortz You do not understand how it works. The corporations will pay less in all taxes, those that do not pass the savings on to the consumer will be punished in an open market. This includes medical supply companies. Second of all IT'S ALREADY TAXED. There are already Federal Taxes on doctors, nurses, EVERYTHING, State taxes. You name it it's TAXED. Your effectively arguing my points for me at this rate.
asleeperj 1 year ago
@asleeperj you dumb fuck - it's a FARCE you fucking idiot -- look up the word FARCE you dumb fuck.
Corporations would pay no taxes -- NONE - no business would pay ANY tax. Yet corporations have laughed at it for 13 years dumb fuck. Why? Because it's fucking NONSENSE.
Arguing your points? Is your brain a pile of shit -- or are you just a dumb fuck? I'm telling your dumb fucking ass it's a FARCE you dumb fuck, that their leaders KNOW its a farce, and are not trying to pass it.
PerpetualMotionTax 1 year ago
@PerpetualMotionTax Corporations would pay sales tax on things they buy. Arguing with you further would be stupid, you obviously do not have the mental capabilities, the ability to make valid points, nor rational thoughts. I know in Neanderthal land, you can call some one a dumb fuck, and pound sand all you like, and that makes a viable argument there. In the real world that just makes you look like the "dumb fuck." When someone loses an argument they get angry. It's okay guy calm down.
asleeperj 1 year ago 2
no dumb fuck - corps would NOT pay taxes on the things they buy under FT you dumb fuck. How the fuck can you be so stupid?
Did you even read the book dumb fuck? Businesses would pay NO TAXES at all. Got that retard - none, zero. That, you fucking retard, is supposedly why prices will fall so much that the ADDED sales tax to people "will be a wash".
You don't even know the FT crap, you idiot. How the fuck could you possibly know enough to write here about it.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
@12FlyMe That's strange. I pay retail sales tax when i buy things for my business. Some of which i can write off at the federal level (which i wouldn't have to do under the fair tax), but you don't seem to understand that.
asleeperj 1 year ago
asleep you are strange, I dont give a shit what you pay now idiot -- under Fairtax businesses don't pay any taxes - -at al. No FICA, no income, no corporate, NOTHING. Got that retard? At least know your own fucking plan you trying to promoted, dumb fuck.
So you are one complete dumb fuck - you don't even know Fairtax gets rid of all taxes businesses pay. Can you get any dumber?
BullshipDetector 1 year ago
@BullshipDetector You are assuming that these business don't have people who get payed who buy things. You are assuming these businesses do not have to buy anything. Your assumptions are wrong. Business buy things all the time. People who are employed buy things ALL the TIME.
Yes it gets rid of all taxes and REPLACES THEM with a sales tax. You ALREADY pay a minimum of 22% in embedded taxes on everything you buy. Those disappear. Saying dumb fuck, makes you look like an idiot. Your uneducated.
asleeperj 1 year ago
@LiarBoortz You said "the government can NOT tax itself retard;" however, you also said "If a massive tax ON GOVERNMENT is such a great way..." So who exactly IS taxing the government. These are your words, not mine. You're obviously not one for the logical train of thought.
asleeperj 1 year ago
If a massive tax on government is such a great way to raise revenue -- why isn't anyone else on earth doing it?
Furthermore, if a massive tax on government is such a great way to raise revenue -- why did Fairtax hide this in one or two sentences in the back of the book?
Why not put that on page 1? I mean -- they arent trying to hide this bullshit, are they?
It wouldnt be bullshit, would it??
LiarBoortz 1 year ago
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don't forget the 5 pages in the next book explaining it. But why wouldn't you mention that? The side you criticize "hides" facts by writing it in both books. You hide by not mentioning facts at all.
You might want to get your hypocrisy looked at. it may turn into a debilitating schizophrenia.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
@LiarBoortz Try making coherent thoughts next time. It works a whole lot better than rambling. How can a government tax itself? The money is raised through productive citizens. A consumption tax punishes those who consume the most. Those that need help get a prebate from the government.
Ask your self this. Why does the EU require at least a 15 percent Value added tax?
Easy answer... To stop tax competition, so that business don't migrate to the lower taxed burdened countries.
asleeperj 1 year ago
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LiarBoortz 1 year ago
Fairtax is a farce -- it does actually pretend to get most of the revenue FROM the government.
And it does hide this in the fine print.
And no one is really trying to pass Fairtax -- because they know their own plan is bullshit.
We need a flat tax -- very simple tax -- on all income. That would be the way to simplify the tax code.
NawwLeans 1 year ago
I love the Fair Tax idea & ideal. So looking forward to the day when trillions of US dollars can return home, unpenalized, from offshore accts. Will refresh & energize our jobs, economics, big time!
ziglet53 1 year ago
zig you wont do shit when Fairtax passes -- cause it's fucking bullshit. It's a farce -- got that? Its a fucking farce,, and it's "leaders" know it's a farce.
See dumb ass -- they pretend to get most tax revenue FROM the government. That's right idiot - FROM the government.
And they hide this turd in their fine print for a REASON They hide it because that's the only way their shit can "add up"
IN other words dumb fuck - it doesn't add up
Its a fucking farce.
FilmCriticOne 1 year ago
Go away, child. See your doc & get your meds refilled. Better yet, read your Bible & pray. You need some serious help.
ziglet53 1 year ago
Simply amazed at sheer ignorance represented in comments made here. Fair Tax is perphaps too simple for many to grasp. Not surprising after being so entrenched in our current behemoth tax code that literally no one person understands, that's regressive, that's wreaking havoc on America's citizens.
ziglet53 1 year ago
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Fairtax hides this massive, unprecendented, insane fucking tax on government way in the back of the book, in a way they hope stupid fucks won't notice.
Stupid fucks like you.
Here is a clue -- they can't tax the government. They pretend to -- but they can't do it. It's insane. It's physically impossible.
More importantly, they pretend to get this tax money, so on paper their "math" adds up.
Guess what that means, dumb fuck -- it means their math doesn't add up
12FlyMe 1 year ago
Keep in mind the fair tax is only on new goods.
Snowboardmiassoff1 2 years ago
Snow keep in mind FT i a fairytale.
So NO ONE pays a dime of taxes, not one dime, except in a sales tax, which won't matter cause prices wont rise.
Magically you fucks will put all taxes WITHIN the current price of a product.
How fucking stupid can you fucking idiots be? This is PURE FUCKING BULLSHIT.
Got that -- its PURE BULLSHIT. It's a fucking farce.
QUit being so fucking stupid.
FreeLunchTax 2 years ago
@FreeLunchTax
umm dude your intelligence is only exceeded by your stupidity and it really shows in your text.
Oh i forgot liberal retards with multiple names. trying to clown people are just indoctrinated kool aide drinkers, sucking up everything that comes out of a liberals mouth. get some common sense and drop the ignorance before you reply you trolling moron.
juggernautxtr 1 year ago
A tax by definition says, "someone is getting screwed." So how can a fair tax? The FairTax is a way for Neil Boortz to make money it has nothing to do with actual economics. Putting all your taxes in one basket is STUPID. Proponents are calling it a grass roots movement. It's a bowel movement with the middle class getting screwed again.
vinnyverelli 2 years ago
So you would rather continue to get screwed and pay federal income taxes and answer to the Thugs (IRS)?
With the Fair Tax, you don't pay any taxes if you don't buy anything and you get a monthly small rebate check.
I would rather keep 100 percent of my paycheck and pay taxes when I choose to do so.
Free will.
davidrobinsonmagic 2 years ago
How can you not buy anything?
Yes, you get to keep 100% of your paycheck, but these days most people SPEND 100% of their paycheck. Who do you think holds all the credit card debt? Not the guy who makes $10 million a year and who also gets to keep 100% of what they make.
Keep the Capital Gains tax, the tax on dividends and the estate tax and your 23% sales tax would be lower. Now that's getting fair. The more money you make the fairer this tax is.
Wake up.
vinnyverelli 2 years ago
Capital gains tax should be dropped (or eliminated) to the lowest in the world. The United States should become a tax haven so people would invest here from all over the world. That would create massive amounts of jobs.
You want the government to wipe your ass I guess? I don't.
I can spend my money better than the government, maybe you can't?
You wake up, Socialist. This country was not founded on high taxes.
I am in business and I know alot about economics.
davidrobinsonmagic 2 years ago
And how do you make money? BY WORKING HARD or being an Innovator. Why on earth would you punish that?
As these people start to pay taxes, they will ask? Hmmmm, what is all this money being used for???? That is where Gov spending gets reformed, and how lowering the NRST follows.
hefftoneGA 2 years ago
Vinny no idiot, you wake up retard.
You fucking gullible moron. How fucking stupid can you be, and still exhale? Do you just fall over dead when you get this stupid? So EVERYONE gets a huge raise on their paychecks, NO one pays taxes, corporations and business pay nothing, and all we have to do is buy the shit we buy now, at the same price. You fucking dumb shit. Is there any shit your dumb ass will NOT believe??
FreeLunchTax 2 years ago
If you believe that everything you buy now will be the same price after a 23% Sales Tax, your the dumb ass. Embedded taxes (smoke and mirrors) included the price of goods will go up.
vinnyverellivents 2 years ago
Go up ? Shit sherlock, if they put all the taxes as sales taxes, prices could fucking double.
But Fairtax is not serious -- it's a fucking farce. They are not trying to pass their own "bill". They know their own plan is a farce.
Fairtax is the most insane shit I ever heard --- but many dumb fucks eat it up .
This shows how fucking gullible most people are.
Do they fucking teach critical thinking anywhere? Did these dumb fucks ever think for themselves??
PowerPlantEngineer 2 years ago
Recommend you read the Fair Tax book before making false assertions re HR 25. Seems you don't quite understand embedded taxes. Understand it thoroughly & you may come to different conclusion.
ziglet53 1 year ago
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Got plenty of studies that back us up. how bout you. sources?
Go on tell us about the how we FT rips off Cancer patients (for around 20% less then our current system)
Or how city and state governments won't support a new tax (that replaces the old taxes at a small savings to the respective governing bodies)
Those are my favorites, Mark. Then start repetitively cursing at me. call me a "dumb fuck" twice in the same sentence. And use 25 different accounts to do it with.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
David dumb fuck - -FT is a farce a fairy tale, It just proves how fucking stupid people like you are. Fucking hell you moron -- did you fucking ever hear of critical thinking/?
No one pays a dime of taxes - we all get huge raises on our pay checks -- no corp taxes, social security -- NO fucking taxes, by ANYONE -- just buy the same shit we buy now - at the same price, and magically everyone gets rich.
Hey dumb fuck - wake the FUCK up you retard.
FreeLunchTax 2 years ago
i like DontTrustTaxCons comments. they are easy to spot for what they are. trace his name to his home page and you will notice that he has only visited and commented on a few videos. all of them about the fair tax and all of his comments are against it. i sense someone being paid to post comments against the fair tax. what real person would join youtube and only look at fair tax videos, a snake in the grass isnt that hard to spot when he leaves his tail out in plain sight
jonservo 2 years ago
Our standard of living will increase with the FairTax, because our tax burden (per person) will drop, and because costs of production will drop. The tax burden will be thinned out because illegals and criminals will start paying, finally. Lower production costs will let companies lower prices while maintaining profit margin, because the tax code "compliance" cost will drop. This cost right now is about $900 per person per year. The poor will be "untaxed" without any lines to wait, too!
urgener 2 years ago
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Dave-- you are economics major?
Try this test to see if Fairtax works, dumb fuck.,
Pay yourself 10K a day to cut your own grass. If at the end of the month, you have 300K -- Fairtax works great idiot.
If all you have is short grass - Fairtax is a piece of shit.
Fairtax gets half its fucking revenue by pretending the government can pay itself massive taxes.
Its FUCKING bullshit - and they know it dumb ass. Thats why they avoid hearings.
Google Fairtax absurdity
IowaSea 2 years ago
How about NO TAX? A tax on your labor is NOT supported by law. Wake up! They tax your right to work in support of your own life and expect you to go along with a new tax that will give their crimes credence? F... them. Americans wake up! Grab your muskets! Grow some balls and drag the whole D.C. gang into the streets and hang them on live T.V.
almartin77 2 years ago
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I read the Fairtax books and web sites.
That's how I know they are bullshit farces. Google Fairtax absurdity -- learn something.
NavyBeer 2 years ago
flyme , you are a left wing socialist..
I am an economics major and I think I know a little more about the economy than you.
The Fair Tax eliminates the IRS and it creates millions of jobs. No more income tax.
How is that a bad thing? Unless you are lazy and want to live off the hard work of others maybe?
davidrobinsonmagic 2 years ago 2
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Dave -- Fairtax is a farce. Even its leaders know it. Its not a serious plan. It pretends to get most government revenue -- by taxing the government.
Fairtax knows they can't get most government revenue from government -- they know only people pay taxes.
But they had to lie about getting enough money with their lunatic plan. So they added crap, like taxing the government.
That should be easy to spot for a college boy.
DontTrustTaxCons 2 years ago
David, pay no attention to 'flyme' he is a known youtube spammer. Goes around every Fair Tax video and cannot stop posting at all. He goes by at least 10 different names: flyme, farcetax, truthmatterstome, tubetaxpro, don'ttrusttaxcons, etc.
I made a FairTax video as well, and I have marked all of his posts as spam. I suggest you do the same. It is a waste of time speaking to "him." That person has been presented with fact after fact, and its head says the same thing.
ConservativeE 2 years ago
I think he works for the IRS. Who the hell else would defend such an organization?
DrinkingWithTim 2 years ago
Make that 32 different aliases on youtube
all most all sware and deceive though telling only 1/2 the story. in some situations invents numbers with out offering evidence to back it.
dtvgmedia 2 years ago
Maybe by the time you get your degree in economics you'll learn some math. A 23% sales tax would be a lot lower if you kept capital gains, dividends, and estate taxes. The more money you make the fairer this tax is.
vinnyverelli 2 years ago
Sounds like the words of a person who desires NOTHING more than to "just barely get by" and let someone else bear the burden, created by vote craving scallywags.
hefftoneGA 2 years ago
I have many desires. One of them is not to pay a higher tax rate to give the super wealthy a free ride. And I'm getting by nicely, thanks for your concern. But my money is made off of hard work not from buying low and selling high. With the FairTax hard working middle class Americans have to pay a higher tax to allow rich people to keep their Capital Gains. The FairTax puts the burden on the middle class.
vinnyverelli 2 years ago
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What the fuck makes your dumb ass think the poor don't pay sales tax under Fairtax idiot?
Boortz slides like shit on this point -- saying no one pays "a sales tax on the necessities of life" -- which fools you dumb asses.
The prebate is 198 -- no matter if you have cancer or not, rent or not, or rich or not, are poor or not.
In other words retard, the prebate is bullshit.
FT is a huge sales tax on everything retard -- rent - medical -- utilities -- poor or not.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
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I did read the FT Book -- four times, and have the second book.
Funny how the first Fairtax book brags that "Fairtax makes the federal government become a MAJOR taxpayer". Page 148.
City, county, and state governments have to- pay this huge sales tax too.
Fairtax math is based on over a trillion in taxes FROM the government.
But then the second book -- which was going to answer critics -- never dared touch this subject
Why?
Because that's their bullshit, and they know it.
TubeTaxPro 2 years ago
You do realize that the poor pay the same embedded tax on products and services today, right? You realize there is embedded taxes in cancer treatments and rent and food and everything else right now, right? Poor or not, we all pay those same taxes today.
jboritzki 2 years ago
Fairtax you dumb ass would be the highest sales tax on earth -- on the poor. The poor get 198 dollars a month -- but no more.
The 198 wont cover the sales tax on their rent you fucking idiot.
There are NO exceptions under fairtax -- none. Zero . So the poor - or someone -- has to pay the high sales tax on all rent, medical, utilities, food, phone bills, gas, whatever.
Its a huge fucking tax on the poor you fucking idiot.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
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Fairtax is based on pure bullshit..
Its based on getting over a trillion dollars a year FROM the government -- in sales taxes the government PAYS itself.
Yes -- its THAT fuching stupid.
By getting MOST of the taxes FROM the government -- Fairtax claims their taxes wouldnt cost ANYTHING - cause all prices will go DOWN by the sales tax amount, So they can tax all the sales tax they want -- its FREE -- prices will go down!!! 2+2=5, therefore, I am the pope.
Its the same logic.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
Yes Ron Wyden from Oregon had a basic overhaul of the tax code -- simplified, 100 pages, not 60,000 pages. A two-page tax return.
But it was too truthful for the public.
We can have a fair simple tax code -- but not with so many stupid people pretending there is a magic pony that shits gold.
His plan was basically to tax all incomes the same - quit screwing work and rewarding bullshit
Naturally it never got anywhere. You can't fool people with that. You cant raise money with that
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Sounds like a flat tax. If so, that is unfair to lower income people. Fair Tax is more equitable across all income ranges. And no 2 page tax return needed. No tax return is better!
skmoguls 2 years ago
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Fairtax sounds great -- but its fools gold. In fact, its bullship.
Its math is wacko -- and Fairtax leaders know it: they are the ones that distorted it.
Fairtax is fools gold.
Its like saying " 2+2=5, therefore I am the pope"
Fairtax pretends to be able to collect taxes FROM the government, and count that as income.
How clever!! Just get a trillion a year in taxes FROM the government.
Sounds good -- but its bullship.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Got a better idea?
Piscivorus 2 years ago
The Fair tax is revenue neutral. Whatever the rate has to be, it only has to be equal with what we're already paying. Anyone who bitches about the cost of the fair tax obviously doesn't realize how much they're already paying. People working at minimum wage are guaranteed to take home more money under the Fair tax because employers will not be able to cut wages any lower once income and payroll taxes are no longer being deducted. On top of that, the prebate will compensate them for the fair tax.
Piscivorus 2 years ago
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Piscivorus 2 years ago
DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE SERIOUS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FAIRTAX: Sincere, intellectually honest debate is ALWAYS welcome, but ignore the person known as 12FlyMe/NawwLeans/Bullship Detector, etc. He continually posts a rash of lies, slanders, name-calling, and general nonsense, and has no interest in honest debate on HR25. Despite multitudes of facts and rational arguments presented in response to his rants, he continues undeterred in his campaign of misinformation. Pay no attention to him.
abnrgrtr 2 years ago
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Repeated studies shown a sales tax would have to be 60% or more to replace all other taxes
No wonder the National Association of Retailers said Fairtax would be a "Disaster"
It won't pass -- its a farce. A con game.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
are you retarded? Dont buy so much its simple? YOu idiot. What if you get cancer, idiot, or into an auto accident, moron
What if your child gets luekemia.
What if your dumb ass is in a nursing home, on public aid?
Because -dip wad-- there are NO exceptions to fairtax. Cancer surgery - HAS to pay the FT. All medical cost does.
So do renters idiot - rent pays this bullshit tax. Should they live under a bridge to avoid it?
Moron.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
Fairtax is a farce. It has so much BS, don't know where to start. First of all, Boortz admits that ALLAmericans have to VOLUNTARILY -- ALL - tax a 30% cut on our pay, for the numbers to work. Bullshit, we aren't ALL going to VOLUNTARILY take a cut in pay. That's just the START. Its absolute BS.
NavyBeer 2 years ago
you r the one who is bs if u dont think it will work why dont you address mr boortz on his radio show , his number is 1-877-310-2100 and debate him, the fair tax would pull us out of this recession we are in, it doesnt punish over achievers and white collar workers and i am a supporter of capitalism,, paying taxes through the goods and services that you buy doesnt punish anyone, as far as theyre income is concerned and ppl like you are critical with out knowing everything on the fair tax
facasj 2 years ago
Do everyone a favor and actually read about the fairtax - from the actual fairtax website. You can even get the actual bill to read too. It's not that difficult to comprehend.
Real quick though: IRS gone, income tax gone. Fed now funded through national sales tax. Instead of taxing productivity, we tax consumption. You replace one system with another.
It's so simple a caveman could do it...
laserfloyd 2 years ago
A sales tax is the only necessary tax. Income should be Constitutionally protected by property rights and privacy rights.
Piscivorus 3 years ago
Yes it is always immediately obvious when someone has not read anything about the FairTax. Usually, they've read nonsense from another site from which they've based their errant opinions.
PHUNNIBONE 3 years ago
It would be nice if you have an opinion on the FairTax you first read the book, the 133page bill or any of the research by bonefide economists. So many people have some really odd complaints about FairTax that only shows they're sources are either uninformed or purposefully putting out misinformation.
2008czam 3 years ago
Theres nothing fair about the fair tax plan. you can keep telling yourself its aimed at immigrants but its yet another tax break for the rich. a 28% sales tax affects the poor, not just illegal immigrants. we're trying to make it so the rich can pocket the other 25,000$ a week they make that they dont need to spend on gas and groceries. Who should Provide more tax revenue, illegal immigrants or these 200 million a year making C.E.O.s? time to stop being patriotic and wake the fuck up.
missingman329 3 years ago
maybe if you read the book you'd understand how this is the only progressive tax system in the offering.
I urge you to read the book or the research.
2008czam 3 years ago
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How can a "Fair Tax" create a Middle Class?
A graduate (economics) knows that wealth consolidates (the bases of the game Monopoly) Because of this economic law, when we did not have income tax in the 1900's we had Robber Barrons, monopolies, trusts and indentured servitude (slavery through debt -white people by the way) and ZERO middle class.
A middle class is ARTIFICIALLY created with taxes and wealth redistribution.
How does a Fair tax redistribute to avoid the law of wealth consolidation?
McCainIn2008 3 years ago
"In the aggregate, 'some' households would not be as well off for the first couple of years. However, a stronger incentive to invest and save would cut into consumption, and the greater incentive to work would cut into leisure."
What that means: Once people learn that they'll be bringing home what they earn, they'll have the incentive to be more productive. More productive, more money for spending and saving. Yes, the more you work, the less time you'll have for leisure. But that's your choice.
privateeyeman 3 years ago
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Incorrect, as usual. What it means is that to tread water, just staying even with where they were before, they would have to work more to have the same quality of life.
What part of "would not be as well off" can you not understand?
Diskwin 3 years ago
It would not even take a year for the prices to balance out. Once the fair tax plan was in place, the pressures put on producers and distributers by federal taxes would be removed. This means that it would cost them significantly less to operate. They would be tempted to hold out and avoid lowering prices, but business is a competitive world and maybe the companies who are doing well would be willing to hold out but the ones who are struggling for a foothold would just under cut the market.
efosterd 3 years ago
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Earn $10k - $150k a year? Want to pay more taxes and have less leisure time on average? Then the FT/NST is the wacko tax for you!
"In the aggregate, some households* would not be as well off for the first couple of years**. However, a stronger incentive to invest and save would cut into consumption, and the greater incentive to work would cut into leisure."
tinyurl 593htl, page 31
*those making $10K-$150K a year
**5-10 years, minimum
Diskwin 3 years ago
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If you are a fan of this tax, I am imploring you, open your mind, and please read and understand Table 11 (on page 31), concerning "Utility"(essentially, well-being) results yearly across income groups if the FT were to pass, at the following link on the FT backers' own site:
tinyurl dotcomslash 593htl
Diskatopia 3 years ago
MakeMyPoser aka MarkDouglasC aka TaxSanity aka MyBookDeal is actually Mark Douglas Curran. He lives in Quincy, Illinois. He's a 56 year old convicted child molester. He was caught fondling a 6 year old boy. I know this because I live in Quincy. I thought you all should know. He is not a mentally stable person, as you can probably tell from his comments.
rngrsleadtheway 3 years ago 3
Income taxes are absurd. If you refuse to pay, you get arrested. If you resist arrest, you get shot and killed. That's not liberty and justice for all, it's tyranny.
The Fair tax is fair. If you don't want to pay the tax, you can choose to buy used goods instead of new goods. Or, you can save your money and invest it. You keep every penny you earn and nobody gets arrested or shot to death for not meeting their spending quota.
Piscivorus 3 years ago 3
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Pisc -- your answer is to just buy used?
Are you mental? Ever hear of used cancer surgery? Cause you idiots tax that. Ever get used rent you moron? Cause you morons tax rent -- not just tax it, but put the HIGHEST SALES tax on earth -- on rent.
Ever get USED gasoline moron? Gasoline tax would go from 18 cents to 1.50 for SALES tax. How about used nursing home care?
Can you buy USED car insurance -- cause your idiot farce tax is on car insurance too.
Fairtax is a bunch of crapola
MakeMyPower 3 years ago
Europe has both VAT/sales tax -AND- income taxes. Governments here say that VAT is the best tax, easy enforcement and highest yield of all taxes. Income tax is kept in the loop basicaly to spy on you, intimidate you, potentially criminalize you and to keep the accountant industry happy.
atlanticus 3 years ago
The VAT exists to hide the real cost of goods.
chulahagh 3 years ago
To properly compare the Fair Tax with income taxes, have to use the "inclusive" rate of 23%. To properly compare the Fair Tax with state sales taxes, you have to use the "exclusive" rate of 30%. It assumes that the cost savings to businesses of eliminating the income tax will reduce current prices by an average of 23%. So this 30% would only apply to 77% of current prices, on average.
100% - 23% = 77% -no more income taxes
77% x 30% = 23% -Fair Tax
77% + 23% = 100% -No change in prices!
Piscivorus 3 years ago
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Look at these idiots debating if its 23 or 30! Thats like a first grader wondering if he will be president, or an astronaut, this summer. Creative fantasy for a kid -- bullshit farce for an adult. Fairtax is bullshit -- total bullshit.
MakeMyPower 3 years ago
Actually, on the fairtax website, I read that more recent estimates put the federal sales tax lower than the original 23% which means that there could be a price drop.
efosterd 3 years ago
I totally support the Fair Tax though.
Piscivorus 3 years ago 3
There is no guarentee that prices will fall by the amount businesses save from income taxes. That means prices will rise and the prebate won't be enough to cover it. What would cover it is a federal income credit based on the concept of the "social credit" by Scottish engineer Major C. H. Douglas. For every dollar a person earns, the government would add a flat % bonus to cover the natural disparity between the collective incomes of all consumers and the total cost of all goods and services.
Piscivorus 3 years ago
The Fairtax is different from what you describe. Prices will not rise, as the Fairtax eliminates all embedded taxes on goods (equal to 22%, FT rate is 23%). so companies would be saving a large sum of money, and one of two things will happen: competition will drive prices down (as proven when an airline tax was accidentally dropped some years back) or people will know that companies are saving a ton of money without passing on those savings, leading to boycotts.
chwparker 3 years ago 2
I agree in general but, to clear, the 23% is just an average. Some things (mostly massed produced things in which the costs of labor are lower than average) will rise in price. Not by a full 23%, that would imply a cost savings of 0% which would be nonesense.
Piscivorus 3 years ago
As a non-market leader, companies would seize on the opportunity to increase their market share by dropping prices. It's as easy as that and is ALWAYS the case.
chulahagh 3 years ago 3
although there is no garunteed price drop built into the plan, one already exists in the market today. Competition. In todays market at any given time there are always businesses thriving and some struggling to survive. The ones that are not doing so well would be quick to undercut their competitors and gain a foothold in the marketplace. It's either do that or let your business die.
efosterd 3 years ago
I agree but, there is very little real competition in our economy. The only reason some businesses thrive while others struggle is because of patents. Real competition can't exist as long as companies have exclusive control over the production of specific products. Consumers can buy from different retailers but, prices are the same. Real competition requires that all companies have the right to produce any thing without any abligations or limitations, except for the use of trademarks, of course.
Piscivorus 3 years ago
You're wrong. Most corporations don't even own any patents. Besides, patents expire after a set time, to prevent just what you've described.
There is plenty of competition in many areas, despite what you may think. Especially among the retailers you mention.
If anything, there is a lack of competition in highly subsidized and/or regulated industries, as in automobiles, aircraft, and commercial banking. The demands of the state are too expensive for upstarts.
lnd3005 3 years ago
Most corporations are also small businesses. I'm only talking about the handful of large corporations that sell most of the goods we buy. They own tons of patents. They create the illusion of competition but not nearly enough to prevent collusion. Your last comment I completely agree with. The combination of federal patent grants, regulated and subsidized industries, bailouts, and state and local red tape are all designed to kill competition and opportunity and keep us all employed and taxed.
Piscivorus 3 years ago
those are 3 of the MOST DEregulated industries in america.Actually, the american auto companies cant compete with toyota and other import companies because ford pays its workers a fair wage and retirement, toyota doesnt have the "burden" of paying their workers retirement plans, so they can sell a similar car for much cheaper than the american counter-part. the tax breaks to foreign auto companies are to blame. After you work for a company for 30 years, they owe you more than a fuckin pinkslip.
missingman329 3 years ago
I'd say commercial banking is VERY heavily regulated, and I believe aircraft is as well.
You know, I don't really know much about the auto industry, but I would assume it's highly subsidized, given the failures you mention. But you also mention tax breaks for non-domestics, so I dunno.
Of course if you're comparing any of those industries to pharma, then, yeah, they aren't THAT regulated.
lnd3005 3 years ago
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Competition my butt. Fairtax isn't counting on competition -- thats a smoke screen. Look at what Neal Boortz said the price drops will come from -- WAGE cuts. Only, he calls them "readjust your pay figures" which means wage cut -- for 100 million Americans.
Don't believe anything Fairtax says. They knowingly mislead you. This lunatic plan to cut wages isnt even in HR25, but its what their whole "math" is based on. You are being conned.
SteamboatCamp 3 years ago
Nice try Mark.
privateeyeman 3 years ago
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You were surprised fairtax had support? Why? it sounds good. Everything is magically FREE. We dont pay taxes, we just buy stuff and the tax included. But prices wont go UP, cause the price of everything will go DOWN. SO its magic. Plus, we get a check start of month to pay our taxes. So not only is everything FREE -we get a check!. Who could be against that?
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
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Fair tax is lunatic math. For two reasons. 1) it would have to be a 50% sales tax, not 23, on houses, cars, medical cost, etc. Such a high sales tax would decimate the economy.. 2) YOu dont save any "embeded cost" because you STILL have sales tax to pay - so that would be passed along, just like income tax cost is now passed along.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
Where did you get your numbers?
Did you spend millions of dollars in research? Do you have M.I.T. and Harvard economists backing up your claims? The FairTax does.
Please research the plan. It's a good one.
Strideo1 4 years ago
Fair tax has crap backing it up. THese morons have a 23% tax on government spending. Just think of this you moron. They have to including gov spending or the 23% doesnt work. THe problem is, gov would have to RAISE the money it needs to pay its taxes. So it can not be 23%. Thats just one thing.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
Another thing. Do you think nursing home cost will pay 23%? Rent? New home sales? Hell no. But all those things are included.Medical surgeries taxed 23%? Hell no. They will all get exemptions. The 23 only works if there are NO exemptions. As exemptions pile up -- the 23 goes to 30-to 35-to 40. It will fall like the idiot house of cards it is. Your emperor is a naked jerk boys, learn some logic, some math, some economics/
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
There will be no exemptions, hence the "unkindly" tax on healthcare & rent. No medical or other exemptions to prevent lobbying. Everyone will have their full income- thus "extra" money each month - to pay for their rent on tax & medical bills. Everyone, rich or poor, will also get the monthly prebate to help pay for the taxes on living necessities (e.g. rent, food).
Nursing homes & health insurance companies will also no longer pay income tax or other taxes, except on the purchase of goods.
muezlkva 3 years ago
governments already pay taxes anyway. one form is the deductions from government employees who don't have to pay income or payroll taxes.
taxes aside, think of the expenses involved in our current overly complex means of collection. I'm sure you agree the current system is flawed there.
jfrofree 3 years ago
cute lol
DarkangaelBrokenwing 4 years ago
very good
wjw2sq 4 years ago 2
And one other question no one has answered. If fairtax is supposed to support social security, and IRS is eliminated, who is keeping track of income, and social security/welfare elegibility?
132ICU 4 years ago
132 -- good point. One I never thought of. But FT is stupid on so many other reasons, I never got to that one. The real problem with FT is, it cant possibly remotely work, not at 23%, cause one group after another will get exemptions - renters, new home buyers, nursing homes, surgery, medical bills. It can only be 23 if there are NO exemptions. They even have gov paying 23% on military spending. Its insane.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
that is the beauty. there must be no exemptions, not even the government. If the government got exemptions and it provides a service that the private sector offers as well, the government would have a distinct advantage
jfrofree 3 years ago