AGAINST PROPOSITION 8 PROTEST NEW YORK NYC MORMON CHURCH

[laveatupai]

The LDS Church is the most respectable and loving Church in the world. Dont ever try to go against peaceful people just making their constitutional vote on how things should be done in the country they gave their blood for.

[laveatupai]

History always repeats itself Sodom and Gomorah was also a free love state. You can not stop the Christian views of the state. This country was founded on those values. Founding fathers were not fags. We are producing and voting.

[halfverbot]

People who are against gay marriage are heterosupremacist. Defining marriage as being solely between a man and a woman on the government level is merging church and state, and is forcing beliefs we don't want to follow on gays and lesbians when gay marriage hurts no one. If you want to marry the opposite sex, that's not going to become unavailable if gay marriage exists.

To each their own. We're moving for EQUALITY.

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

For all of you nincompoops out there who think that being gay is a choice....

HOMOSEXUALITY IS RAMPANT IN THE ANIMAL KINGDOM! Monkeys, dolphins, some insects, dogs, and some ocean-dwelling creatures all have some experiences with homosexuality. So when did they choose to be a homo? NEVER, because it comes innately to some people. Granted there are those times when some peeps have mid-life crises or whatever, but IN GENERAL, MOST GAY PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY! Get it through your thick headz!

[bballer619]

sorry, but its untrue that people are born gay. Until recently, homosexuality was considered a disease (before you get mad, look it up). Now, there is no scientific evidence that it is hereditary, all studies have been debunked by reasons of environmental factors or chemical imbalances...and no one, even the leaders of the gay community, have been successfully able to prove otherwise. Why is it so important for you to prove you were born gay?, didnt you CHOOSE to "come out the closet"?

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

Lol alright I'm through spending the time talking to a moron. It's so painfully obvious YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR'E TALKING ABOUT! If you were objective in your argument, it might be worth my time to argue.

You sir, are an idiot bigot. You are the epitome of the ignorant, brainwashed, church-going, uneducated morons who call themselves the religious right. If you were a true DEM, you'd have different views.

You are the perfect example of what happens when you let church go 2 ur head!

[bballer619]

Did you actually look those things up? Because I'm sure if you did you would see I know more than you wish I knew. I am a registered DEM, but I do go to church. Since when did going to church become such a bad thing? I see, when you publically lose to church morals, then all of a sudden church is the worse thing on earth to you. Forget that it teaches tolerance, equality, love for thy neighbor, and rigtheousness...maybe next time you'll second guess before you call someone an "idiot bigot".

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

Marriage has changed many times over the years to get with the modern era the world's living in.

Separate but equal is NOT EQUAL, did this country forget about the plight of the African Americans in the Civil rights movement of the 60s/70s?

America is ever-changing. It's a guarantee that in the next couple years (maybe 10,20,30) you'll see the acceptance of gay marriage in our culture.  So why are we sitting here delaying the inevitable?

[neilnora]

This is not about discrimination or hatred at all. The Mormons and any other religions do not hate gays.

We can all disagree with acts and still love the people. I am a Mormon and do not hate anyone at all.

[halfverbot]

There is no logical reason to discriminate against gays and lesbians.

[awteltelaw]

They are in no way being discriminated against because they cannot marry a person of the same sex. Marriage is not a right but a privilage that the government allows certain people to have. Government controls how people can marry and whom they can marry. Get over it you lost and most Americans do not support your cause.

[halfverbot]

Why should heterosexual couples have the "privilege" of civil marriage, but not homosexual couples? Discrimination.  I suppose whites had the "privilege" of sitting where they wanted on the bus?

[bballer619]

Its the same reason why some people pay 24% in taxes, and others pay 38% in taxes. Everyone has taxes, but people pay different percentages? Why? Because laws and benefits, like taxes and marriages, have restrictions and rules. Its the same reason why a 45 year old CANNOT marry a 9 year old. You cannot let sexual preference begin to mandate or justify legal change.

[halfverbot]

Heterosupremacism is why it is illegal for civil gay marriage. Marriage is a bond of LOVE. Just because I fall in love only with men doesn't mean I don't believe heterosexuals don't love each other. Marriage has been about love for awhile now.

Why should two CONSENTING adults of the same sex not be allowed to civilly marry? Can you answer with a non-faith based, logical, reason?

Children cannot make the same informed decisions as adults, their brains are not developed enough.

[bballer619]

If this issue was only about love, then Civil Unions should suffice right? If the gay community thought this was only about love, then why the need to marry? Gay couples can love each other without marriage, right? The point is, the gay community has made this issue not just about love anymore, they are calling foul on religion, on the govt, claiming they are non-accepting of its community. This is why they are protesting, if it was just about love,they wouldnt care about joint tax filing right?

[halfverbot]

You didn't answer the question. Why should two consenting adults not be allowed to marry? One can't give a non faith-based logical reason. Discrimination. Heterosupremacism. Why do you think you are better because you are straight? Because you can make babies? What about baron couples? Old couples? How do you justify thrusting your beliefs on us when gay marriage hurts no one?

[bballer619]

to continue... the reason family is so big for us on this issue is because sexual intercourse in our eyes should be saved for marriage for the purpose of baring children...sex is the cornerstone to having kids and raising them and having a respectable family...sex is not casual, it gives us the chance to raise a loving family. I dont agree with divorce, I dont agree with casual sex, I waited until I got married because I believed that it was THAT important. This is why I voted Yes.

[halfverbot]

Casual sex has nothing to do with marriage. Voting yes on proposition 8 hasn't stopped ANY casual sex because casual sex has nothing to do with marriage...why would a vote about marriage in any way be influenced by one's beliefs on casual sex since casual sex and marriage are completely separate? So because you wouldn't get marriage to one of the same gender, you would prevent me? Sounds like you're trying to force me into your belief system.

[bballer619]

okay...try not to take "casual sex" out of context, what the main point is is that sex is at the cornerstone of marriage because it allows the chance to bare children thru wedlock...which is again the cornerstone to having and raising a family. Old couples can still biologically have kids, barron couples dont know until they try, and trying is saved for after marriage, so its not intentional. Now two men, or two women, no matter how hard they try, will BARE kids.

[bballer619]

So if you want a secular reason...there it is. Now you continue to ignore my questions, and I have answered all of yours. If this fight for you is really just about LOVE, then why are these court cases and complaints about tax filings, retirement transfers, and medical spousal benefits??? You must see that there is a separate agenda that lawyers and lobbyists for gay rights are attending too...its not just about marriage now, you gotta see that.

[bballer619]

now you didnt answer my question. If you think this issue is all about Love between two consenting adults, then why is your side adamantly wanting to complain about joint tax filing, retirement benefit transfers, and tax breaks??? What lots of ppl dont want to admit is that if prop 8 failed it would lead to a ripple effect of lobbyists and lawyers continuing to push this envelope of what they quoted "the gay agenda"...if this is really just about Love, then why all these other things?

[halfverbot]

Marriage is about love. Fighting for gay marriage is about equality. Not being allowed to marry is discrimination. There is no non-faith based reason two consenting adults of either gender should not be able to marry each other civilly.

[bballer619]

Marriage is about love, but has its restrictions on top of that. You fail to explain what all of the other issues are about, tax breaks, retirement benefit transfers, etc. If it is just about love, then why these things? We already discussed the non-faith based reasons....why then is the court case appealing Prop 8 about the need for tax breaks and other secular issues?

[bballer619]

Good point. Marriage is a privilege. Just like driving, marriage is a social benefit given to those that follow its rules and restrictions. If restrictions are followed, then one can obtain a license for either of these to show that they are qualified to practice these social institutions. Being in a "free country" doesnt mean that people can marry whomever they want!..if you want this, move to an anarchist country, or one that allows it.

[awteltelaw]

The tag line has it wrong. The church gave no money to fight for the passage of prop 8. The church did encourage its members to support prop 8 as did many many other religious denominations. This is not a civil rights issue. You lost. If you want to try again go ahead. You have that right. But remember the LDS Church has the right to encourage its members to support such laws. The violence by the homosexual community is not helping your cause.

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

Are you on crack dude? The LDS church donated some 20 million dollars to the "YesOn8" organization. This IS a civil rights issue moron. You don't get it, EVERYONE is equal in the United States. The Constitution guarantees gays have the same rights as straights.

If you can't bare to see good people happy, then just hang yourself dude. Soon the Cali Supreme Court will overturn this and we'll be on our way to a more understanding society

[awteltelaw]

No actually you're wrong. It's public record. Go the the State of California web site and you can see who donated. You'll find that the LDS Church gave no money. Members, individual members gave, but the church gave no money. Secondly, homosexuals do have the same rights as heterosexuals.

Now your point on the Calif Supreme Court. The people of Calif have passed this legislation twice. 27 states have voted against these special rights. Eventually the US const will need to be amended.

[halfverbot]

The TRUTH is that Mormons ARE responsible for donating money to write discrimination into the constitution of California, whether they are in a church or spread across a state. The TRUTH is, Mormons were encouraged to do so by church leadership.

[tmdrdd]

The Vote No crowd actually raised MORE money than the Yes crowd and they still lost.

Church leaders encouraged members to support it, which is their right both morally and legally. They did nothing illegal.

"Separation of church and state" works BOTH ways. In this case, religious institutions are ALSO protected from being infringed upon by both government policy AND the sheeple who blindly follow the pied pipers that decided to scapegoat the Church after they lost.

[bballer619]

Mormon members gave, but it did not write discrimination into the constitution. Mormon members were encouraged just like you are encouraged to donate to the Red Cross every month...you may have, you may not have, the choice was totally your decision.

[halfverbot]

Many mormons made the choice to donate money - to write discrimination into the constitution, their proximity to each other at the time of donation doesn't matter. If you're going to protest what many people have done who frequent a certain building every week, why not protest all those people at that common place they frequent? It would be impractical to go door to door protesting each individual mormon who donated.

[bballer619]

For one, if your going to protest what "many people have done" why not protest in black communities...the mormon vote only accounted for about 3% of California's YES count. Yet the black and latino votes account for close to 10 times that much!!! And then to protest at their place of worship? Disturbing their spiritual ceremonies...does that sound like something adults should do? How about going out and teaching the issues civilly, not yelling down someones' church doors.

[bballer619]

Gay individuals have all the rights as straight individuals...no question. What the gay community wants is to further its BENEFITS (not rights) of gay COUPLES. Now, it is not the responsibility of the govt to protect BENEFITS. Marriage is a social/religious institution that has rules and restrictions to abide by in order to obtain its license, just like driving (not religious, but social). Not everyone can drive, and those who can must abide by its rules.

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

Marriage wasn't a sacrament until the lates 1200s, so you can't say it's a religious institution. Religion adopted marriage, it never created the idea.

Marriage is a RIGHT, not a benefit. Two people who love one another and are willing to make the life-long commitment to one another should and will be allowed to get married.

It disturbs me that you think gay people don't have benefits and not rights. What kind of southern republican churchgoing cesspool did you come from?

[bballer619]

Actually I live in California, I'm a minority, and registered Democrat...so with that said...

First, marriage wasnt a sacrament until the late 1200's??? Seriously, this is what you've succumb to...read Genesis please, if you are not religious, read it for information, not for spiritual enlightenment.

And I never said gays dont deserve rights, all individuals gay or straight have the same rights...what you want is for gay COUPLES(not individual) to gain more benefits, like marriage.

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

You are probably one of those pricks who thinks being gay is a choice...so tell me...When did you decide NOT to be gay?

Do you think gay people aren't capable of loving one another? When two people are deeply in love, the ultimate showing of commitment to one another is to take the vows of marriage.

Why on Earth should a loving same-sex couple be treated any different than a normal couple?

[bballer619]

Why is this always the comeback for gay being is a sexual preference. Here, I chose not to be gay when I DECIDED on the traits I LIKE, personality, humor, beauty, and yes, gender...and ACTED ON IT. I chose by partner, who then became my girlfriend, and now my wife. I chose to be in this relationship, I chose to wait until marriage to have sex, I chose these things! These were things I decided on, nothing forced upon me. Sex is a choice, some have it, some dont. Your partner is a choice.

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

Nobody decides to be homosexual, it comes natural to them....I don't understand what point you are trying to make...

[halfverbot]

Regardless of whether homosexuality is a choice (I certainly didn't choose to be gay, though I am. I realized I'm attracted to mean when puberty hit, just like you probably started feeling things for girls around the start of puberty. Did you choose those feelings? No.) if same sex attraction was a choice it would be my choice, and a choice that hurts no on is not wrong. If sexual attraction was a choice it would be like picking out the color of hat, morally neutral, merely aesthetic.

[bballer619]

Okay maybe this is where we differ...choosing to have sex is a BIG deal, choosing a sexual partner and having intercourse is a BIG deal. It does hurt those that think men should not be with men, and women with women...it hurts their beliefs its hurts their families...if you see something you think is wrong, you do something about it..ie vote. Its easy for you to say its hurts no one, because you want it...choosing to have sex without purpose is not morally neutral...its not merely aesthetic.

[halfverbot]

Yes, actually it is aesthetic. HOW does it hurt you?

[halfverbot]

"mean" in my last comment should say "men." Typo.

[bballer619]

Can gay ppl love without marriage? They sure can. And before you begin to insult religion, calling me a "churchgoing cesspool" I believe is what you typed, you yourself want to have "committment to one another is to take the vows of marriage"- - Vows? Vows are religious oaths...You dont want me to be "church going" but you want to make a religious oath with someone else? Look up vows, then rethink your statement. Vows go back as far as the Book of Judges.

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

Of course gay people can love without marriage, but a lot of gays feel like marriage is the ultimate commitment to people who love one another, and thats VERY important to some people.

None of the gays give a shit if the church recognizes their marriage, they just want the state to recognize it.

A VOW is not a religious oath, where u getting that? It can be....but the word itself means "a promise". People choose to get married ALL THE TIME by the state and not the church.

[sungis]

Mormonism don't hate gays. They just hate the gay lifestyle---the deterioration of what we treasure most---family.

[SechyoolarYOOESAY]

LMAO, Gays represent the deterioration of the Family?!??! What fucking planet are you from?

If anything, the Mormons represent the deterioration of the family, since they have 30 wives and 70 children each.

Gay people are no less human than you mister, they are the same in everything except sexual orientation.

Didn't your mama teach you not to discriminate against minorities?

[sungis]

Mormons don't have more than one wife. That goes against our beliefs. People who left the Church and started their own fundy churches claiming to be Mormon sometimes have more than one wife.

Geez, get your facts straight.

Gay people aren't less human, just carry sin like the rest of us.

[froggyola]

You are a fool. There are already many homosexuals in the morman faith. Get a clue.

[mtown1978]

Thank you for the first yes or no answer I have received. Thank you also for admitting that your leaders are fallable, since even if they were to receive such a relevation from God, you would quit the church.

The suggestion that I join the Mormon church has nothing to do with my original question since I do not believe in Mormonism, rather you do.

Since you also believe in the Bible, (which I don't) read Galatians 1:8 and tell me what I should think of your Book of Mormon.

[ernestshakleton2]

Unfortunately the Book of Mormon- Another Testament of Jesus Christ does not preach another gospel, perhaps you should read it.

[mtown1978]

Mormons,

If tomorrow morning LDS church leaders were to announce that they had received a revelation from God saying that homosexuality and indeed gay marriage are now ok, would you change your mind on this issue?

Please do not comment that this would never happen. I'm sure the ban on polygamy, allowing non-whites into the priesthood, and other revelations of the past may have come as a surprise for Mormons living at the time as well. So, yes or no? Would you change your mind?

[notmybutt]

it is not ten thousand it was a couple of thousand anti religious butt hole scrawling anti-mormon remarks on the sidewalk. yes stop the hate on religion and value if you want to plug your butts then go ahead but leave us alone

[notmybutt]

persecution of freedom of religions so you can plugs your butttholes. faggots

[REAVISEITEL]

You know I posted this and I can delete any comment I don't like and there's A LOT I don't like lol. However as saddened as I am at the sneaky underhand accusations generated here I'm leaving them. Please say as much hateful stuff as you want: it's just making your cause look worse and worse. You are losing this war. When there is freedom you and your followers will see that nobody is turning into a pillar of salt and some old man with a crook isn't descending frm the clouds. Fools.

[brewdog11]

Stop the Mormons! Stop the hate! Separation of church and state!

[REAVISEITEL]

u have to tolerte it to some extent still its the law incest cult memeber.

oh yeah this whole thong is making everyone who loves us think twice. lame cliche lie you hater.

i'm sure you know all about those laws.

[TakeAction4]

To Shiftfallout: Again, we are here talking about tens of thousands of PEACEFUL civil rights demonstrators asking for equal treatment under the law. If you want to discuss your supposed video of cross stomping, you should post that video & start a discussion OF THAT. You are side-tracking a serious & intelligent debate here w/ your sensationalistic & undocumented "story." We the People have a right to demonstrate against a vote, a proposition, a court ruling or an unfair law. This is America.

[TakeAction4]

To those who are trying to stir up more hate on this blog (more hate than the supporters of Prop 8 have already fostered), please stop your silly, dishonest name-calling. Your shallow hatred shines through. There is no truth in the words you write. Tens of thousands of gays & lesbians -& their friends & supporters -have demonstrated peacefully to counter the small-minded attacks of the Prop 8 supporters. Our rights have been attacked. We are simply standing up & demanding to be treated fairly.

[craigut]

To: Shiftfallout: We are on this site talking about a large civil rights issue. The issue at hand is not the reported behavior you site -- which I am unaware of, you do not site a source. Violent and hateful behavior is not sanctioned by the demonstrators against the hateful Prop 8 and similar measures. The Mormon Church and the Catholic Church have stood up and punched the gay and lesbian community in the gut. We are peacefully standing up to say: they are discriminating against us.

[Shiftfallout]

You are aware by law its not a civil rights movement? Three requirements have to be met. 1, they have to be economically oppressed. The gay community is one of the better off economically. 2, you have be politically powerless. For 2% of the country, gay people have the most power seen in history politically. 3. There needs to be something that cant be changed about you, for example skin color. I have seen former homosexuals, but no former african americans.

[REAVISEITEL]

former homosexuals?!?! LOL

[Shiftfallout]

This information is backed and given by Democratic party leaders in Massachusetts, which is the most gay friendly states along side California. Furthermore, California fam code 297 .5, states quite clearly homosexual couples are given the same rights as church married couples by law. No ones rights are being denied AT ALL. If you were non biased you would see this. I repeat, no ones rights are being unfairly denied here. All this over a word. People voted, accept the voice of the people.

[REAVISEITEL]

oh! THERE ARE FORMER AFRICAN AMERICANS LOOK AT THE JACKSON FAMILY STUPID!

[Shiftfallout]

Proven fact, Michael Jackson, no matter what, can get rid of his blood and heritage. Furthermore, he faced a skin disease which is much akin to albinos being born. It spreads and the pigment color is no longer kept. MJ had the right to physically alter his appearance because of this... but that doesnt change the fact he is still...african american. This cannot be said for homosexuals who turn heterosexual and vice versa on a daily basis. Its just a fact, no pre-bias involved or present.

[Shiftfallout]

Wish there was an edit button: Correction, add a t to can. The proper and intended statement meant to say "cant" in the first line.

[drewj1969]

There may be a few protesters whose behavior I'm ashamed of, but I am ashamed of EVERY SINGLE PERSON who voted Yes on 8.

[Shiftfallout]

Any of you see the video of the elderly woman with a cross getting assaulted by no on 8 supporters? They took the cross out of her hand and gathered around stomping on the CROSS while yelling insults at the elderly woman. Hypocrisy? You better believe it. Money given by any organization, (churches are considered and organization, just as much as planned parenthood) can donate money for advertisements. Its the people who will decide, and this protesting is one big double standard. Hypocrisy.

[charulig]

Lie. (Dumb lie!) I was there. And no, "an" is not spelled "and," nor by our Constitution are churches allowed to be active in politics if they are to keep their tax-exempt status (it's called separation of church and state--a principle the founders of our country were strongly in favor of)...

[Shiftfallout]

So you were there screaming and spitting on an old woman for expressing her views as you are expressing yours? There is no excuse for touching another human being in that manner, and taking what is not yours...something as sacred as a cross and stomping on it in mass like a bunch of terrorist burning the US flag in the streets. That was a huge mistake, huge.  Tolerance is not shown when you scream at old women and stomp on a cross in public.

[TCILUVU]

The homosexual community is starting an all out war to all christians in the U.S. They go to there sacred places of worhsip and spit and stomp on there crosses. I'd like to see one of them show up on my porch. They are really asking for a fight.

[TCILUVU]

I use to be tolerant of the gay community. But based on what I have seen in the past week. I feel intolerant and angry towards them. The gay community has really striked some cords with people. Your causing more discrimination.

[REAVISEITEL]

bs u never liked them nice try

[drewj1969]

Was stripping the gay community of their basic civil rights the way you used to be tolerant of them?

[mtown1978]

So I was at this Bills game in Buffalo. Denver scored a touchdown and the only Broncos fan in the section began to cheer loudly and rub it in to Bills fans seated around him. A Bills fan sitting in the row in front turned around and decked him in the mouth (blood and saliva flying everywhere, like in a Rocky movie). What did he expect, right? And that was just over a touchdown.

Now, this lady put herself in the middle of a crowd of people whose civil rights she helped take away. DUH!

[REAVISEITEL]

can u please post the link to this?!?! gay people have actually had the lowest rate of violence than any other group in the US. this is all absurd.

[notmybutt]

where is this video, sick freaks attacking a woman of faith

[mewimi]

STOP THE H8!!! Only love love love love love love love love.

Remember to join the nation wide protest against Prop 8!

mewiquality . blogspot . com

[lammius]

I was happy to see so many people out there tonight! Don't let the rain keep you away Saturday!

[omiolo1]

if you continue to protest my sacred places of worship, I will start protesting your bath houses!

[store275]

If you protest the gay bath-houses then the gays will have no choice but to protest the Mormon compounds that house all the 14 year old girls that are the prospective "sister wives" to dirty, 58 year old men.

**You're not the only one that can make crude, misinformed generalizations about a group of people.**

[nicolicious617]

You already spent millions of your "sacred" dollars attacking our rights. Why do you think you have the right to protest anything we do, when we're only trying to defend ourselves against your hatred? If you'd keep your sick, twisted hate to yourselves, we'd leave you alone.

[mtown1978]

Bath houses? LMAO

You know, I just had a revelation from God. He told me, in a language that only I can understand, that he was very pissed off at all the churches that supported Prop 8. Stay tuned for any future revelations.

Now, you probably think I'm crazy... oh wait, I bet don't.

[mtown1978]

I was just listening to CW News at Ten. They said there were 5,000. Happy to be among them. Another demonstration at City Hall Saturday at 1:30.