Could Aaron Copland possibly be paraphrasing the opening to the first song in Schoenberg's Das Buch der hangenden Garten, Op. 15?! I can't imagine a disciple of Stravinsky doing such a thing. Probably a coincidence.
It's hard for us to imagine today in the 21st century but when this piece was written Aaron Copland was on the cutting edge of new music in America...this kind of thing had only just begun and it was a very exciting time for composers. Plenty of critics ripped on this piece, and even though Copland was not a full blown "atonal" composer this stands up to be a work that is truly Aaron's, and though I favor his later symphonies and ballets more, I can appreciate all of his work for what it is.
He,he what the barroque fellow meant was BIZARRE. And I kind of agree. There could be some interest in a bunch of sounds palnned and executed according to an idea but I do not call that MUSIC. Now having said that, shut me.
I absolutely love this piece. I hope to be able to play it one day. I did have a question though, I saw it in my score too and see it here as well. At around 5:07, the first bar says its in 3/4 and clearly there are more notes there then allows, it looks more like 6/4 I think. Any theories?
@beastlybobo It would be 6/4. The only possible reasons I can think of would be an attempt to keep from dividing the half note in the right hand into two tied quarters while keeping the bass line (which carries the rhythm in this passage) in 3, or just an editing error that seems to have happened multiple times. Maybe you have the same edition as the one posted and both are erroneous?
Copland studied with Nadia Boulanger and learned the ways of the New French Spirit, which involved a lot of chaos because of the movement to get away from romantacism. This piece was one of his peaces he made on the return to the U.S. After the depression, Copland began a nationalistic phase, thus came Appalachian Springs
@KnitKnots That's just ignorant. Copland loved experimenting and these were one of his experiments. Also, Copland took all the developing musical ideas at the time (12-tone, atonal, serialism, etc...) and put his own American feel to them. Compare this with Webern or Schoenberg, or take one of Copland's more tonal works and compare it with composers of his time (Ravel, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, etc.) and you can see he's made a distinct American classical music sound that is distinguishable.
@Ybarchov21 I understand he liked to experiment, but I am strongly against atonality (some is ok, but having entire pieces dedicated to it? I don't think so), serialism, and 12-tone music. After having these topics forced down my throat in college, I understand their importance, but that doesn't mean I have to like 'em.
I first heard this "live" in a teachers small studio in the 1960s, an accomplished USC grad was the performer. Very effective piece to hear up so close to the Steinway, esp the "overtones" where the damper is held off the string creating that eerie hum effect. This was interposed with a program of Schumann & Chopin. I directly went out & got an LP & the sheet music...an unforgettable memory.
"I love the effect created by the suspended notes. They sound just so witty. After the sforzando chord you think there will be a silence, but something is still sounding...did the pianist forget to remove the foot of the pedal? Love that."
They're not actually suspended. You depress the note without sounded it, and then the harmonic rings out, which I think is much more interesting.
"The whole point of atonal music is that there is no tonal center. This doesn't mean there can be no "shape or lyricism" though. "
Well there's a whole school of thought that atonal music is really just perceived as rapidly shifting tonal centers, and tends to advocate the name "pantonal".
Copland didn't really write Atonal music. This isn't atonal. It may sound like it but its not quite. It does kinda sound like a mess sometimes. It takes time to get used to it.
gotchya. I have read many accounts from music critics and music writers and even the ones who dont like the piece never under estimate the incredible impact this composition had on american classical music. perhaps one of the most influential pieces written in the 20th century in that respect.
fantastic. this is one of my favorite versions of this really good job. is this piece considered atonal. I ask becasue it does not sound atonal to me. just really harsh. sounds like most glorious and painful ecstacy. it does have a sound associated with atonal music a controlled precision a barbaric harshness. but it sounds tonal to me and incredibly expressive so I dont know.
I love the effect created by the suspended notes. They sound just so witty. After the sforzando chord you think there will be a silence, but something is still sounding...did the pianist forget to remove the foot of the pedal? Love that.
Yeah this is Copland in his first period, the stuff your thinking of, like "Rodeo" and "Appalachian Spring" is his third period. I find this stuff to be equally amazing :D
copland works not so much in chronological periods as in 'modes'--the modernist mode popped up throughout the rest of his career, in his two other major piano works (the sonata, '41, and the fantasy, '57) as well as in orchestra and chamber music--connotations, inscape, piano quartet, etc. these works always coexisted with the 'populist' music in his output, if not in the critical reception... for the record, i think the piano fantasy is one of the finest piano works of the century. good stuff..
People....Please don't take this the wrong way cause I really like the music of Aaron Copland but this sounds like a 2 year old has taken a seat at the pianoforte......Please dont let that offend you.
Oh come on, don't be so fucking ridiculous. I thought that mentality had died out. If you're expressing dislike for something and don't want anyone to criticize you, then don't post the goddamn comment.
I love this piece: The gradual introduction of the harmony and its development through the variations, the holding of certain notes of a chord after the sonority has passed, the different feels of the meters...I remember hearing one performance and just having to check the sheet music out to see how those harmonics are done! I adore Copland's more mainstream music and appreciate this piano piece for exploring new ideas while hinting at the composer's later aesthetic.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I can`t stand this Baroque stuff it`s like having a bowl of last weeks porridge instead of a steak. I`ll stick to the melodic music, Chopin, Brahms, Liszt, Schubert etc.
I have yet to listen to any baroque music where there is a remote chance of hearing any melodic structure, there IS NONE!!!! and as I`ve said before, MELODY!. is what counts, at least as far as I am concerned.
If you don't hear melodic structure in baroque music, it's because your mind is too weak to follow the melodies. Baroque is characterized by heavy use of counterpoint. That means multiple melodies. Perhaps, if you studied more, you would learn to hear these things, and also use correct terminology. Don't worry, you're not alone, baroque music also offended many royal pinheads of that time period, whose ears lacked adequate perceptual depth.
Bwahahaha! Aaron Copland: Baroque! You are very funny my friend. No, no... I'm sure it's a very common mistake. I myself, quite often, envision dancing cowboys when listening to Vivaldi. Pfft...
@re6356 There are interesting things to discover in this music as far as taking it apart piece by piece to see how he put it together .But I agree. For the most part I like music that's meant to be breathtaking and pretty. to me.. this and other contemporary/atonal music is very hard for me to enjoy other than the fact that you can take it apart and see so many interesting things.
This is the weaker side of Copland`s talent.He floundered in atonal music as did Barber. Frankly most everyone did. That is why atonal it is dead, it simply does not work. I get more out of 20 seconds of Bach or Handel or Haydn or Debussy than any complete atonal work. Composers were fooling themselves, I know I wasted a decade writing that bull. Music should not be interesting. As the greatest art it should be transporting.
That is simple ignorance. You obviously don't understand the interesting sides of purely tonal music. Tonalality isn't "uninteresting," as atonal music isn't "un-transporting." Many are greatly moved by atonal music, and not by tonal music. You write this comment as if music is soley based upon how the listener thinks it should sounds. If this were true, music would be without change. I doubt you understood that "bull." If you did, you wouldn't be writing this unintellegent comment.
aldebussey. My yardstick for Baroque is Albinoni`s adagio in G minor. This has a beautiful melody and that is why I like it. I can`t compare any other works with it, at least none of the works which I have heard.
If you knew anything at all, you'd know that Albinoni didn't write that kitschy Adagio trash.
"I can`t compare any other works with it, at least none of the works which I have heard."
And what have you heard? A couple discs of Baroque for Barbeque? Some pieces — oh, excuse me, you probably call them "songs" like every other moron — that you downloaded on Soulseek without any information on the performers or recording (not that you'd care for such meaningless details ;)?
Elephantine!!! DO NOT repeat DO NOT insinuate your tastes and preferences onto me. As far as I am concerned, be it Albinoni or whoever. I LIKE the adagio. Calling me a moron is usually the response from a MORON. I do not call music a song unless it has lyrics, then it is a SONG. Mendelssohn wrote a number of piano pieces called Songs Without Words, did you know!!!!? You listen to your baroque and don`t imply that anything else is trash. because it is the baroque that is trash.
Copland, I think is a very interesting composer! Although, I like to stick mostly with the Baroque to the Impressionistic eras. I'm still trying to open my mind up to modern works, but I still like performing modern works, because some of them are so interesting and odd! :-)
Could Aaron Copland possibly be paraphrasing the opening to the first song in Schoenberg's Das Buch der hangenden Garten, Op. 15?! I can't imagine a disciple of Stravinsky doing such a thing. Probably a coincidence.
LevMysh68 6 months ago
@PhillipPark90 I'm aware, however I find it weird that he only does this during this one measure out of the entire piece. Seems kind of random to me.
beastlybobo 9 months ago
It's hard for us to imagine today in the 21st century but when this piece was written Aaron Copland was on the cutting edge of new music in America...this kind of thing had only just begun and it was a very exciting time for composers. Plenty of critics ripped on this piece, and even though Copland was not a full blown "atonal" composer this stands up to be a work that is truly Aaron's, and though I favor his later symphonies and ballets more, I can appreciate all of his work for what it is.
CAClarkMusic 9 months ago
He,he what the barroque fellow meant was BIZARRE. And I kind of agree. There could be some interest in a bunch of sounds palnned and executed according to an idea but I do not call that MUSIC. Now having said that, shut me.
crbrico 11 months ago
I absolutely love this piece. I hope to be able to play it one day. I did have a question though, I saw it in my score too and see it here as well. At around 5:07, the first bar says its in 3/4 and clearly there are more notes there then allows, it looks more like 6/4 I think. Any theories?
beastlybobo 11 months ago
@beastlybobo It would be 6/4. The only possible reasons I can think of would be an attempt to keep from dividing the half note in the right hand into two tied quarters while keeping the bass line (which carries the rhythm in this passage) in 3, or just an editing error that seems to have happened multiple times. Maybe you have the same edition as the one posted and both are erroneous?
ProgressiveEccentric 3 months ago
pontillism
superjam18 1 year ago
Copland studied with Nadia Boulanger and learned the ways of the New French Spirit, which involved a lot of chaos because of the movement to get away from romantacism. This piece was one of his peaces he made on the return to the U.S. After the depression, Copland began a nationalistic phase, thus came Appalachian Springs
HLGGodz 1 year ago
It's beautiful
Huddiethegreat 1 year ago
I will pretend I never heard this piece and stick with the image of Copland I love.
KnitKnots 1 year ago
@KnitKnots That's just ignorant. Copland loved experimenting and these were one of his experiments. Also, Copland took all the developing musical ideas at the time (12-tone, atonal, serialism, etc...) and put his own American feel to them. Compare this with Webern or Schoenberg, or take one of Copland's more tonal works and compare it with composers of his time (Ravel, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, etc.) and you can see he's made a distinct American classical music sound that is distinguishable.
Ybarchov21 5 months ago
@Ybarchov21 I understand he liked to experiment, but I am strongly against atonality (some is ok, but having entire pieces dedicated to it? I don't think so), serialism, and 12-tone music. After having these topics forced down my throat in college, I understand their importance, but that doesn't mean I have to like 'em.
KnitKnots 5 months ago
your link isn't working =(
cnmaster01 1 year ago
I first heard this "live" in a teachers small studio in the 1960s, an accomplished USC grad was the performer. Very effective piece to hear up so close to the Steinway, esp the "overtones" where the damper is held off the string creating that eerie hum effect. This was interposed with a program of Schumann & Chopin. I directly went out & got an LP & the sheet music...an unforgettable memory.
saintansele 2 years ago 3
pure and absolute pleasure....thank you so much
MATTDUNCAN1 2 years ago 4
Just because something is tonal doesn't mean the key center has to be using the Vulcan death grip on your ear drum.
cwnote360 2 years ago 7
"I love the effect created by the suspended notes. They sound just so witty. After the sforzando chord you think there will be a silence, but something is still sounding...did the pianist forget to remove the foot of the pedal? Love that."
They're not actually suspended. You depress the note without sounded it, and then the harmonic rings out, which I think is much more interesting.
largemoose 2 years ago
"The whole point of atonal music is that there is no tonal center. This doesn't mean there can be no "shape or lyricism" though. "
Well there's a whole school of thought that atonal music is really just perceived as rapidly shifting tonal centers, and tends to advocate the name "pantonal".
largemoose 2 years ago
Perhaps it takes some getting used to? I like it more than the first time I heard it. Or this might be a better performer.
largemoose 2 years ago
There's only one piano piece by Copland I like even more: the Fantasy. Please post it!
Sesquiltera 3 years ago
Someone's gotta help me with atonal music. It always sounds like just a big, fairly well-organized mess.
HuggumsMcgehee 3 years ago
Copland didn't really write Atonal music. This isn't atonal. It may sound like it but its not quite. It does kinda sound like a mess sometimes. It takes time to get used to it.
achinghunger15 3 years ago
gotchya. I have read many accounts from music critics and music writers and even the ones who dont like the piece never under estimate the incredible impact this composition had on american classical music. perhaps one of the most influential pieces written in the 20th century in that respect.
teoakinyel 3 years ago
fantastic. this is one of my favorite versions of this really good job. is this piece considered atonal. I ask becasue it does not sound atonal to me. just really harsh. sounds like most glorious and painful ecstacy. it does have a sound associated with atonal music a controlled precision a barbaric harshness. but it sounds tonal to me and incredibly expressive so I dont know.
teoakinyel 3 years ago
yes, he uses 12-tone. he's a genius though so he can give it shape and lyricism when he wants to - hence the feeling that it maybe atonal tonality.
SidedPanic 3 years ago
Just because he uses the 12 tone scale does not mean the piece is atonal. At the start C# is clearly the tonal center and at the end D.
The whole point of atonal music is that there is no tonal center. This doesn't mean there can be no "shape or lyricism" though.
wogandmush 3 years ago
It's not 12-tone, it's more like octatonic. However, melodically, it's basically C# harmonic minor.
ElScotto 2 years ago 2
Thaks for taking such good care over the presentation-it's invaluable to see the score flicking by as you hear the piece.
No way does it sound like a two year old playing (previous message)- -very subtle dynamic contrasts are observed.
japanesesweet 3 years ago
it sounds like a 2 year old playing but i find something very appealing to me
morvensky 3 years ago
I love the effect created by the suspended notes. They sound just so witty. After the sforzando chord you think there will be a silence, but something is still sounding...did the pianist forget to remove the foot of the pedal? Love that.
jannokas85 3 years ago
Holy shit! This is Copland? I've only ever heard his "Americana" works, I didn't know he had written anything like this.
tempodimarcia 3 years ago
Copland truly loved what was being written at the time: 12-tone and Stravinsky especially; he tried to integrate them into his later works.
RabidCh 3 years ago
Indeed. I think this was one of his greatest pieces. He also orchestrated it, for anyone who might be interested in that version.
kenalebla 3 years ago
Yeah this is Copland in his first period, the stuff your thinking of, like "Rodeo" and "Appalachian Spring" is his third period. I find this stuff to be equally amazing :D
whitestripesftw 3 years ago
copland works not so much in chronological periods as in 'modes'--the modernist mode popped up throughout the rest of his career, in his two other major piano works (the sonata, '41, and the fantasy, '57) as well as in orchestra and chamber music--connotations, inscape, piano quartet, etc. these works always coexisted with the 'populist' music in his output, if not in the critical reception... for the record, i think the piano fantasy is one of the finest piano works of the century. good stuff..
minirausch 3 years ago
THIS ISN'T BAROQUE!!! wrong era guys
crazyspaz247 3 years ago
this is the most obnoxious comment section I've ever come across, you should all be firebombed.
Thank you 4444 for these vids!
MEpianist 3 years ago
People....Please don't take this the wrong way cause I really like the music of Aaron Copland but this sounds like a 2 year old has taken a seat at the pianoforte......Please dont let that offend you.
pianist12 3 years ago
Oh come on, don't be so fucking ridiculous. I thought that mentality had died out. If you're expressing dislike for something and don't want anyone to criticize you, then don't post the goddamn comment.
TheBlackPage1 3 years ago
HAHAHAHAH!!!!! I never said I didn't like this music. Why use such harsh language?
pianist12 3 years ago
I love this piece: The gradual introduction of the harmony and its development through the variations, the holding of certain notes of a chord after the sonority has passed, the different feels of the meters...I remember hearing one performance and just having to check the sheet music out to see how those harmonics are done! I adore Copland's more mainstream music and appreciate this piano piece for exploring new ideas while hinting at the composer's later aesthetic.
hhender86 3 years ago
are you people crazy? This composition was written in the 1900's. the baroque era is defined by the years 1685 to 1750
mbturner625 3 years ago 7
thank you for telling them off.
JessicaDawn19 3 years ago
@mbturner625 actually... the baroque era is dated 1600-1750. The Baroque era may have ended with Bach, but it didn't begin with him.
Chops321 1 year ago
@Chops321 the point remains
mbturner625 1 year ago
This is very ugly. I always hated Copland. His more experimental side though. Appalachian Spring (sp?) is nice.
This is another gimmickry of the so-called American vanguard music. John Cage deserved to be executed because of the harm he did to classical music.
Copland, at least, wrote beautiful music and then experimental alongside it.
aldebussy 3 years ago
With the time signature changing every 2 measures you lose the beat and it just becomes a confusing mess of notes. I don't like this kind of music.
thatiswrong 3 years ago
that's the freaking point. it's supposed to make you lose the beat, when the performer does not. ever.
mbturner625 3 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I can`t stand this Baroque stuff it`s like having a bowl of last weeks porridge instead of a steak. I`ll stick to the melodic music, Chopin, Brahms, Liszt, Schubert etc.
re6356 3 years ago
baroque? look up the years to what you said and look up the years to this piece and you will feel real stupid!
4444matthew4444 3 years ago 28
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I won`t feel stupid, I DON`T!!!! like it. There`s more melody shaking a pebble in a tin can. MELODY!! is what counts.
re6356 3 years ago
I have shaken objects within many containers and I assure you, it's not quite as interesting.
wurlybird9 3 years ago 4
I have yet to listen to any baroque music where there is a remote chance of hearing any melodic structure, there IS NONE!!!! and as I`ve said before, MELODY!. is what counts, at least as far as I am concerned.
re6356 3 years ago
If you don't hear melodic structure in baroque music, it's because your mind is too weak to follow the melodies. Baroque is characterized by heavy use of counterpoint. That means multiple melodies. Perhaps, if you studied more, you would learn to hear these things, and also use correct terminology. Don't worry, you're not alone, baroque music also offended many royal pinheads of that time period, whose ears lacked adequate perceptual depth.
wurlybird9 3 years ago 5
@re6356 melody is movement from one sound to the next. it is impossible to write without melody...
cnmaster01 1 year ago
@4444matthew4444 haha
mightyafrowhitey 6 months ago
Bwahahaha! Aaron Copland: Baroque! You are very funny my friend. No, no... I'm sure it's a very common mistake. I myself, quite often, envision dancing cowboys when listening to Vivaldi. Pfft...
PikkaBird476 3 years ago 20
@re6356
I really, REALLY hope you're trolling.
zenos700 1 year ago
LOL you just made my day.
orangeteddybearpen 1 year ago
@re6356 There are interesting things to discover in this music as far as taking it apart piece by piece to see how he put it together .But I agree. For the most part I like music that's meant to be breathtaking and pretty. to me.. this and other contemporary/atonal music is very hard for me to enjoy other than the fact that you can take it apart and see so many interesting things.
moviesmyway 1 year ago
@re6356
I hate this song with an absolute passion. It's boring and sounds like banging on a piano. Aaron S. did much better atonal pieces....
But this is contemporary not Baroque
BlueDolphin2011 1 year ago
@re6356 This isn't baroque, its abstract neoclassicism
HLGGodz 1 year ago
This is the weaker side of Copland`s talent.He floundered in atonal music as did Barber. Frankly most everyone did. That is why atonal it is dead, it simply does not work. I get more out of 20 seconds of Bach or Handel or Haydn or Debussy than any complete atonal work. Composers were fooling themselves, I know I wasted a decade writing that bull. Music should not be interesting. As the greatest art it should be transporting.
shnimmuc 4 years ago
this is no true at all....
JessicaDawn19 4 years ago
That is simple ignorance. You obviously don't understand the interesting sides of purely tonal music. Tonalality isn't "uninteresting," as atonal music isn't "un-transporting." Many are greatly moved by atonal music, and not by tonal music. You write this comment as if music is soley based upon how the listener thinks it should sounds. If this were true, music would be without change. I doubt you understood that "bull." If you did, you wouldn't be writing this unintellegent comment.
ruitye75ir94444 4 years ago 2
Clearly you're the ignorant one. Your argument lacks objective reasoning.
TheBlackPage1 4 years ago 2
Oops, I meant to reply to shnimmuc there. Apologies.
TheBlackPage1 4 years ago 2
Oops, sorry ruitye75ir94444, I meant to reply to shnimmuc. Apologies.
TheBlackPage1 4 years ago 2
You probably have not heard Schoenberg because his music is a work of true genius and VERY experssive. Give Pierrot Lunaire a try.
aldebussy 3 years ago
aldebussey. My yardstick for Baroque is Albinoni`s adagio in G minor. This has a beautiful melody and that is why I like it. I can`t compare any other works with it, at least none of the works which I have heard.
re6356 3 years ago
If you knew anything at all, you'd know that Albinoni didn't write that kitschy Adagio trash.
"I can`t compare any other works with it, at least none of the works which I have heard."
And what have you heard? A couple discs of Baroque for Barbeque? Some pieces — oh, excuse me, you probably call them "songs" like every other moron — that you downloaded on Soulseek without any information on the performers or recording (not that you'd care for such meaningless details ;)?
elephantine 3 years ago
Elephantine!!! DO NOT repeat DO NOT insinuate your tastes and preferences onto me. As far as I am concerned, be it Albinoni or whoever. I LIKE the adagio. Calling me a moron is usually the response from a MORON. I do not call music a song unless it has lyrics, then it is a SONG. Mendelssohn wrote a number of piano pieces called Songs Without Words, did you know!!!!? You listen to your baroque and don`t imply that anything else is trash. because it is the baroque that is trash.
re6356 3 years ago
I apologize for assuming you called them songs, but you're still a moron for thinking that Aaron Copland is baroque. Read a book.
elephantine 3 years ago 4
Well done!
thechopinfan 4 years ago
comment. what do you think about actually having copland on youtube?
4444matthew4444 4 years ago
Copland, I think is a very interesting composer! Although, I like to stick mostly with the Baroque to the Impressionistic eras. I'm still trying to open my mind up to modern works, but I still like performing modern works, because some of them are so interesting and odd! :-)
thechopinfan 4 years ago
Introducing myself slowly into contemporary music..
Learned about Copland because of Paul Bowles..
It's great I get to hear him in Youtube..
Zvolanek16 4 years ago 3
did you listen to the second part??? it gets much quicker and interesting!
4444matthew4444 4 years ago