Freewill and the Science of Determinism

[chefshitpiece]

Our lives are based on our decisions

Our decisions are based on our perspective.

Our perspective is based on our personality.

Our personality is located in the orbital layer of the pre-frontal cortex.

Our brain's wiring is determined by our DNA.

Our DNA is luck.

Therefore, Luck Is Everything (L.I.E. Theory).

[NBTY4ever]

@chefshitpiece Nice model. Free will is a fail.

[kvash3154]

@NBTY4ever ahhh your just saying that because you were predetermined too! :)

[golsno147]

The term will is variously related to desire, intention or choice and their relationship to pursuing needs, actions and preferences. Pursuing needs is innate,.We clearly do not always have freedom to act as we please. There is no proof when we reflect on a choice having matched a preference that it was predetermined or due to the exercise of free will.. Choices, more often than not ,are the spontaneous culmination of appraising what ensures survival or serves our perceived best interests.

[whitenightf3]

From the memes eye viewpoint, there are no little selves inside our heads, making

the decisions and looking out at the world. Instead, there are just a collection of

competing memes building up the illusion of a self. This new view fits not only with

the latest research in neuroscience, but with many spiritual traditions in which the task

is to realize the self is an illusion.

Dr Susan Blackmore

[anarchonism]

what you talk about as something that differentiates us from animals, which you expessed quite vaguely (i did not understand whether you meant "values" or "creativity") is just a quantitative, not a qualitative difference. people just have the ability to consider more things, and more factors influence their decision, most particularly, the ability to consciously/unconsciously suppress certain basic instincts, because their brain is more developed and has more connections within itself.

[stratogustav]

To be honest I don't think that choosing what you gonna eat is any different than decide weather or not you gonna cheat. Your food choices are also part of your values and these values are a product of determinism as well.

[copicuk]

I agree stratogustav. We can trace back our moral values to all sorts of causes (eg culture, upbringing, genetics). Also we can see values and emotions in animal societies. fear, anger, affection, love, faithful partners and tribal allegiances, all these exist and are well explained through genetics (particularly by R.Dawkins). Remember, WE are animals too.

[spawnfan101]

Your argument is based on your belief that human consciousness is outside the laws of physics.

Determinism would state that human consciousness itself is the result of chemical reactions in the body

and physical laws. In other words, it has a cause. These chemical reactions in the body have been determined

[skulldaggery]

UHHGH!!! you guys talk so slow! get to the point, and quit trying to use big words if you can't think of them or pronounce them.use curse/crude words if it gets the points across faster/better. You should really prepare the arguement beforehand instead of winging it because it's just detremental to the discussion.

[picassolama]

...and your contribution to the discussion at hand was what? People are people...we communicate differently, we speak differently, and we choose our words differently. If you can't handle people expressing themselves in different ways, then stick to talking to yourself and be happy. If cursing is the only way you can understand another human being, stop listening to my words, because I will not change my delivery.

[copicuk]

well put picassolama. Persoanlly I enjoyed your considered approach and open mind. Speed of speech does not equate to speed of thought. In fact often the opposite applies. Skulldaggeries emotional response seems more to be based on a blinkered inability to hear another way of thinking.

[prophetofyomomma]

Haha. I like you. =)

[spawnfan101]

by another cause and so forth. Eventually your conscious decision can be traced back to the beginning of

the universe and was therefore predetermined.

Based on this argument, your conscious decision to adopt a certain moral belief was predetermined by the

physical laws of the universe and you really had no choice at all. Free will is an illusion.

[prophetofyomomma]

In order to prove determinism, one would need to trace every action to the beginning of the Universe and vice versa. If the initial conditions of the Universe determine everything in our life today, then we will never solve the question if it does. For if we did, we could determine the future actions of ourselves and thus "choose" to reject them based on the information you obtained, thus contradicting the given statement. Basically, it is not possible to absolutely prove determinism.

[dskandman]

dawkins? please...he is not a figure to be used in an argument of any subject matter. he say's a lot a things that he only believes to be true because he feras the idea of a god. i personaly do not believe in God itself but i believe that there is a magic power that controls ( what a nasty word)at least in the macro space all processes. and please, mice are used in brain research and now you dont think that they at least have a consciousness? please rethink

[docrufus]

(Cont'd from previous) Values/belief/morals are also a natural attribute- being the species of the highest social/cognitive order. The only rational metaphysic for me always defaults to logic (science)- the empiricism of human experience shows the senses can be fooled. A philisophy based on a higher order can be viewed as arbitrary & subjective, a null hypothesis- thus any ethical standard based thereon would be also. Thoughts?

[konikula]

Do you really think that v/b/m are highest? What arguments can you lay?

[docrufus]

No-

[konikula]

I am good at sclerosis :) So what should we point out as highest social/cognitive order layer of subject/individual?

[docrufus]

Hello again Konikula - long time no see eh...

Well, self/individual/identity/socie­ty come to mind as culturally defined sets of ideated social relationships (memes), yet base biology often conspires w/intellect/values/ morals & our ability to cohabitate/share resources prudently - there are many ideologies re: the above - yet circumstances constantly arise, naturally adapting/evolving of their own accord - so all is as it should be then, right... thoughts?

[konikula]

So, yes, thanks. Probably you pointed out evolution - it should notice us about dynamics of morality, which shuffles order of these layers? Nice thought, I will hold that. I am also in love with quiet, long term and bilateral debate, with deep sentiments to it. Concrete, focused, located and temporal discussions are flesh eating...

[burnvictim77]

Ah, okay. This made a lot more sense to me. I'll watch it again, maybe jot down some notes, and give a few responses to some of your points in a video soon. Thanks!

[picassolama]

I look forward to your response.

[skulldaggery]

UGH!!! what IS YOU POINT?!?!?! Do you actually know anything you're talking about? If so you're not getting that to me. What is your the difference between consciousness and spirit in your opinion?

ARRRGHHH your incoherent ramblings are irritating me..

You have no idea what you're saying.

[picassolama]

In reply to your question. Consciousness a level of awareness to one's spirit. Spirit is the energy which connects us to all other energy in the universe. They are not the same thing in my opinion. Your subconscious is more aware of your true being than when you're in an awake state. What's your opinion?

[copicuk]

Was this response video ever made? would like to see it. thx.