War is designed to kill and destroy. What do we expect? We should not be there to begin with. No wonder America is hated. And it is all based on lies!
"How can Robert Gates call this is a setback, when it is so much more?"
Because his job is to assess the situation for the Americans, and his opinion on whether or not this is a tragedy is completely irrelevant. Calling it a setback for the American troops in the country and not just screaming tragedy proves that he is able to keep his head cool and do his job, and not waste breath on making obvious statements.
BTW, Wes you said what is America / West going to gain out of Afghanistan if the Chinese benefit from the mineral discovered by the Americans in Afghanistan?........... The answer is that the Americans & the West (UK) will GAIN MORE ENEMIES!
The only time I ever saw my Dad cry was when he said "a lot of people went away, and very few came back" he was talking about WWII. He was just a kid, but saw the grief of those left behind.
So much Quagmire in the mid east, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and you really can't say that some much has changed in those countries, despite all the money that been poured into these wars. Like Treva Etienne's character in Black Hawk Down says even if you kill the top bad bloke, do you all his men, supporters will just drop their guns and surrender, the people will suddenly adopt american democracy, it's not the way it works in their world, killing and warfare is unfortunately all they know.
@DXSXDXSXD There are other jobs around. They may be horrible jobs with little pay but they don't involve murdering people. There is no excuse to resort to murder to make a living. A person can live on the street if they have to, eat out of garbage cans.
lol so he's implying that America should get mining rights in Afghanistan because they spent a lot of money there. Who the fuck asked them to go there (& kill countless innocent lives)? Why should anyone else besides Afghanistan get their resources? Hasn't Afghanistan suffered enough? & newsflash it wasn't Afghans who were involved in 911.
Wes Clark jr is just as miserable a creature as his father (see Pristina International Airport incident).
He says "bomb ppl from the air", "you got like a second or two to make a decision" and "you got to make the call" OR "that person could shoot you down".
The UNARMED kids (aged 9-15) we killed by a f-ing HELICOPTER !!!
How do you mistake malnourished 10-12yo kids gathering wood for rebels?
That idiotic base took rocket fire and war criminals decided to kill all that moved in the area.
@hyperboreean How do you mistake them? Well, easily. There could be any number of factors that could lead a pilot to believe someone is a combatant. Maybe the boys were in an area that intelligence expected Taliban troops to be in. Maybe they wood or tools (if any) the boys were carrying looked vaguely like weapons from a distance. Who knows? It's pretty hard to make a mistake when you're up in way up in the sky blazing along at high speed.
@KonigRodskjegg How do you know it was a pilot that made the mistake? For that matter, we don't know if more than on chopper was involved, what type(s), etc. Just that helicopter gunners were involved and that some bodies were dismembered by rocket fire. Draw your own conclusions.
The only thing clear is that they did not bother checking who the hell they were shooting/blowing up.
As for the distance/speed argument - gunships have cameras and crews have binoculars.
@hyperboreean I don't know that it was a pilot who made the mistake, I assumed you were making that assertion, and so I explained how such a mistake could be made.
I guess they could have been spotted by satellite, leading to orders being given to the choppers. This would be even more believable to me. If the kids were somewhere the military didn't want the enemy to be, and they were sufficiently obscured by forest, such an order could be given.
@KonigRodskjegg I asume the "spotted by satellite" part is parable.
The sad truth is that those guys are Fobbits. When you got a base in a valley you MUST control the ridges.
Had there been snipers/scouts scoping everything that moved in the area it may not have happened.
Second, you assume it was HEAVILY forested or at least enough so that they couldn't tell the difference. That's OK, as long as you realize it's wishful thinking and not evidence based.
@hyperboreean You seem to be completely misunderstanding me. I am simply trying to explain how this could happen, not how I believed that it did, but you seem to keep interpreting my explanations as excuses for the military.
Neither of our views are based on evidence, but it's obviously reasonable to *assume* that nobody actually meant to kill a bunch of innocent kids; thus my position of defence. If anyone did this deliberately, it's goddamn inexcusable.
Even though I was only 11 at the time, to this very day I can see the second plane going in the building just as if I saw it with my very own eyes. And then I hear a recording of some man talking to 911 while the building he's in collapses. I also hear the story of heroism on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania and I sometimes wish I was on that flight just so I could fuck up some terrorist ass before I'd die.
Even though I was only 11 at the time, to this very day I can see the second plane going in the building as if I saw it in person with my own eyes. And then I hear a recording of some man talking to 911 while the building he's in collapses. I also hear the story of heroism on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania and I sometimes wish I was on that flight just so I could fuck up some terrorist ass before I'd die.
I say we end the wars get are economy fixed and then go kick some Saudi ass. That's a war I would sign up for. I would also fight in Pakistan but, I just don't know what the situation is over there. Also you really can't pick what country you want to go to, to fight. I understand (even though I haven't seen war with my own eyes) that war is no picnic and I'd probably end up dead or fucked up in head, but I'm still pissed about 9/11. Even though I was only 11 at the time I can see it with my own-
I loved this video, Wes Clark was extremely fascinating to listen to. He knows what he's talking about and I could have listened to him talking about this topic for hours.
@hyperboreean You act as if Clark Jr. was throwing out stats in this video that I would have to fact check. He was stating opinions that I agree with.
@Joolazoo Look up Michael SChuerer head of CIA, he explains how USA is on the verge of economic collapse
Afghanistan is the grave yard of all major empires from ALexander the Great, to the Mongols empire, the British Empire, Russian Empire now the USA empire.
not that i don't agree to alot of what you say but British empire died cos 2 world wars and a huge debt (money not gratitude) to the U.S. that took over 60 years to pay back (and there so-post to be their ally).
in my view there is no "winning" this war, it will just keep going on and on and eventually abit like how U.S won the revolutionary war against Britain, the U.S. will loss cos of lack of money and resources to keep fuelling this war.
@thatguy24487 Well i agree. Afghanistans geography is war like people have acted like a meat grinder for the last 3000 years. Its terrible difficult to control that region. USA is only creating more recruits for groups like Al Qaida by killing more Muslims as Wes pointed out in the video. The west needs to also stop funding dictators in the Muslim world such as the ruler in Saudi, Saleh of Yemen, Zardri of pakistan, Mubarak of egypt and others if they want to control this situation
@Joolazoo Well USA always kills civilians and calls other terrorist but
Victory was defined by USA as 3 things
1- Caputring/killing Mullah Omar and BIn Ladin
2- Defeating taleban and Setting up a effective puppet regime in Afghanistan
3- Removing the AL Qaida
According to your own leaders such as hillary clinton, AL Qaida is stronger then ever, taleban support rose from 67% in 2003 to 88% in 2011 and, USA is unable to control the geography of afghanistan, meaning the enemy has advantage
That's probably just a defense mechanism. Give it a couple of years and then many of them will probably be cutting their wrists open. I'll just take Denmarks troops an an example: Apparently more soldiers have died after they've come home, from suicides, than who died in afghanistan, from enemy fire.
@manutd94fanman altho in one way i do agree with you, after having watched a documentary on the my lai massacre one of the soldiers was completly unmoved by the horror he caused. to him it was orders. some people are incapable of feeling guilt. it's hard to imagine that as someone with a conscience.
I don't believe the pilots of the helicopters who kill so many innocent people give two shits about it, if you watch the full video of the wiki helicopter slaughter the pilot has absolutely no remorse in his voice when he finds out he killed a bunch of non-combatants and two children and their father. They feel god-like in those machines and are taught not to care, only to kill.
What a great discussion between these two. The US should of been the good example and not the bully after 911.
The helicopter pilots should be dishonorably discharged. no pension and no pay. what is this? I bet you they signed up to become helicopter pilots cause they thought it would be fun to renenact call of duty 6 in real life. what a bunch of assholes. The video released by wikileaks of a reuteurs journalist being gunned down. The american pilots were laughing and congratulating each other at the end. Any helicopter pilot who does this, should be fired immediately.
@TheAce1082 It's not a damn game, you know. They don't just fly out there and shoot whatever they like willy nilly. Attacks have to be authorised, and troops are supposed to follow orders. If a pilot decided, by himself, to murder nine Afghan boys merely for "fun", his career would be over and he may end up in jail.
@KonigRodskjegg Not true. Unauthorized killings by helicopter pilots were the norm, all the pilot had to do was describe the scene and the command center would give him the discretion to do what he wants. Every act committed by a US military personal that ended in the death of a civilian should be considered a war crime being the war itself under US and World law, not to mention our own US Constitution, is ILLEGAL.
@TheUSMetalhead If the command centre gave discretion, that is by definition NOT unauthorised. Whomever authorises discretion to front-line troops that results in a direct attack on civilians, is guilty, the pilot is not. Now if the pilot were to deliberately misinform command of the situation, then that would be a different story altogether.
@TheUSMetalhead As for your statement regarding war crimes, it's really not that black and white as I'm sure you know. We should as best as we possibly can avoid any action that may result in injury or death of civilians, but every now and then someone gets caught in the crossfire. It really sucks, but that's no war crime.
@TheAce1082 I agree completely. They should be charged with war crimes just as the entire Bush admin and congress should be. Not only did the heli pilot laugh and have no remorse after he killed the journalists and the two children with the father in the van that tried to give medical help to one of the journalists who survived the slaughter, but he said "their parents should of known better to bring children to a battle scene." The entire country was a battle scene. Absolutely disgusting act.
The story with the tree was a little bit different, the Americans were the ones who wanted to chop the tree, but it's true that they were not allowed to have guns and were killed.
@MitchofSmeg But that requires a degree of intelligence, and unfortunately, they're American. So, although your plan is sensible, its sadly not possible.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you are nice guys but watching you made me very very sick in the stomach. I felt like ı was watching two british gentlemen in a men's club talking about the situation in the "oriental" colonies in 19th century. I understand you mean well and try to be symphetatic but So I see it makes no difference between a liberal or a consevative when it comes to orientalism; a westerner is a westerner.
@rasnac You started with murder of nine innocent boys and in the end of the video you were talking about mineral resources of Afghanistan and why US failed to take advantage of those resources. I don't think iti is concious thoughh. I believe deep inside this is the mindset of every westerner.
Alot of soldiers are criminals that just want to use their awesome gun and see just how badass it is. They fight and kill civilians more than they fight the terrorists.
taleban united a poor country country devasted by Britian in the 1800s, Russia in the 1900s then USA in the 21st century. So dont give me this shit that they are barbaric. They are warriors and they kicked every western super powers ass and are doing the same to the murderous US empire
@SabreKitteh That's true, but the purpose of the fighting is an important factor. One fights for profit and without glorifying the taliban, the other fights for their people. The only problem is amoral lobbyists and the media just sway public perception on what is truly happening.
@SabreKitteh I disagree, Alot of BS is put on USA media about taleban. The truth is they were formed after a teen age girl was being raped by a Communist afghans,: Islamic students banned together and saved her. Talban then united a country and brought security, killed nearly all communist gangsters left from Russian era, eliminated Opium drug trade, reduced rape, brought economic stablity, and began setting up segregated schools for girls and boys, im from that region
Theres a video on wikileaks, which is similar to the one their talking about. Around a dozen rueters news photographer where shot at by American apache helicopter, some children were also inured in the attack. After the attack the soldier mounting the gun was radioed that there where children involved in the attack and had been shot in the chest, only to be replied by 'Well it's there fault for bringing their kids to a battle'
Because some crazy extremists crash into two towers, killing 3,000, including Muslims, it's OK to kill 1 million innocent people and ridicule a religion practiced by 2.5 billion and its followers. Right?
If nothing else, just please believe by my answer that you're not the only one in the world that thinks that your point isin the most certain sense true..(!)
@DXSXDXSXD They're not pawns. Soldiers enlist out of their own free will knowing that their primary function is to kill people. Soldiers ARE murderers.
If an invading army killed my children or anyone else in my family or friends, I would hate them and their country forever. I would kill as many of them as possible. They could only stop me by killing me. I am an American. People from Afghanistan are my brothers and sisters. I would expect them to do the same.
@menthol5 .....agreed a 100 percent...its just people dont see this basic conflict....u are in thr country...they are not in ur country....when u kill thr children, it will drive them mad, as am sure when some one comes to ur country and bomb ur kids to death would......but people just dont value thr lives as much as Mr Ben said, its not that big a deal....
@menthol5 so true...you are totally right and expressing my feelings and thoughts on that issue nearly better as i could (at least not in english)-and for the rightwing-idiots-no i'm not from a arabic-country i'm austrian with is a chatolic-country and i'm not a moslem.i see it the same way as you- people from Afganistan are also my brothers and sisters-cos for me there are just 2 sorts of people in the world-kind,intelligent people and assholes-we are all the same- humans
@menthol5 WHY does this comment have so many thumbs up? This man just advocated killed US troops. I understand the complications and being against the war... But holy shit.
@menthol5 That is stupid. You can't legitimately judge an ENTIRE country based on the action of SOME. I agree that Afghanistan deserves respect, but so does EVERY country. I can't believe 55 idiots upvoted this.
Oh, come on, Wes! You shouldn't have anything to do with Irak OR Afganistan! Do progressive americans still believe that your corporation-controlled state is capable of good deeds abroad? There are always foreign-haters but people everywhere mostly like you people and the USA, we just fight out of need to get away from the clutches of the violent, overarmed, "free"-market imposer EMPIRE. Please, good people everywhere must help the world to finish it's influence (a south-american viewer).
Going into afghanistan had nothing to do with osama bin laden, that was just a distraction. In discussions about afghanistan everyone keeps talking about bin laden and iraq but why don't we just talk about the elephant in the room. We tend to forget that afghanistan is rich with oil & natural resources & is a strategic location. The US couldn't care less about democracy in the middle east (or anywhere else) or the rights of women. In fact REAL democracy would never favour the US and its agenda.
Wes makes a lot of sense....Ben sounds like a dumbass sometimes. Wes sums it up why people in afghanistan + iraq hate us so much..if someone killed my kid even if it was my own family memeber.....you know it's on. I'll tear them a part like a K9.
They where cut up because they had no bullets in there guns they couldn’t fight back
Nice way of summing up my anti gun control position
I ask what happens when some one puts you in that situation because the top % always makes the decisions, so how are you supposed to fight back if they take away your means to do so or if you willingly give it up. what happend to every 20 years mabe thats why gov is so fucked up now.
just take more then a second to check what your pointing it at
I cant comprehend the generals and politicians who cant understand why we "Americans" are not being seen as heroes in Afghanistan. Its as if France or Germany invaded America to protect the world from Mexicans. It is so outrageously pathetic....words cant describe it. the same goes for there general disregard for human life, but especially American life. Bring them home already.
I can't figure out if Ben loves it when Wes Clark Jr. is on the show or hates it. He seems to amp up the devil's advocate level and just feeds Wes opportunities to rant. I love it.
that is how it is 9 guys lets just kill them shit that is a simple equation...those pilots don't give a shit about those 9 boys they give a shit that it has becomes big news. They went into afghanistan to kill afghan men and secure those minerals they went for. The goal is to kill and soldiers jobs are to kill. WTF are you talking about haunt them.
Fuck any of you for not supporting the soldiers a 100 percent. when they're way up in the sky in helicopters, how can they tell what kind of ppl are on the ground? sure it might be a bunch of sheep herders, or a wedding party, or 9 kids collecting firewood.. OR IT MIGHT BE A FUCKIN TALIBAN DEATH SQUAD!! When your in the heat of battle (way up in the sky), there's no time for reconnaissance. u civilians wouldn't understand
USA army motto: Shoot now, ask questions later... maybe.
@chefawkes Are you kidding? If you can't tell who you're shooting out, DO NOT SHOOT. Those 9 boys collecting wood did not pose a threat to the helicopter. A plank of wood does not look like a rocket launcher. If you can't do the job without unneccesarily killing innocent people, DO NOT enlist.
We DO support the soldiers. We love them. What we are against is the 1% of soldiers who act irresponsibly, or illegaly, and detrimentally effect the reputation for the rest. We LOVE the rest.
People like you is the reason noone likes us in the world. We are hated everywhere...even our best friend brits think we are full of shit. It's all good though...every dog has it's day and our days are limited because of our uncontrollable desire to spread the wings in the world. Wings can only stretch so much and just watch when we get roasted. It won't be nice.
@chefawkes Um dont they ever try to LOOK CLOSER WITH BONICHOLES you know telescopes? DONT THEY HAVE ANY? I dont support soldiers dying for a stupid war we got into or killing civilians than "terrorists" and going on a goose chase. You the one you dont understand.
@Saffroncreature They don't use the technology they have properly or efficiently because the biggest most painful oxymoron in all of human language is "Military-Intelligence"
@chefawkes Soldiers or not, innocent kids were killed but I have the sense that you think just because the soliders are American and the kids were Afghans that the pilots should be given a medal and sent on their way. It was their fucking job to know when to shot and when to hold fire and they made a decision that cost 9 innocent lives.
Here Wes and Ben manage to curtail their arrogance and disdain for each other--long may it continue! Wes plays the role of Cenk, Ben plays the role of Ana.
We shouldn't have been in Afghanistan in the first place. There should have been a full investigation of the CIA and other state organizations. The American gov't screwed up. Now Afghanistan produces herion and drugs for the world to consume. Afghanistan was a stepping stone to Iraq and the expansion of the American empire. Get out of Afghanistan and Pakistan now!!!
Wes really did a good job here. Notice the body language when he covered his mouth as he said some of his friends work for "central intelligence." He sooo did not want to say that, but it slipped out anyway. --It's OK Wes, you didn't reveal anything we couldn't guess already.
maybe just bomb it to the stoneage then sell rebuilding rights to "american" companys :)
collateral murder ftw.. bet the boys had stones looking like granades and sticks looking like rifles and a middle finger looking like an rpg. clearly had it coming like any other civilian living in a war zone.
and its not about the $1trillion in mineral resources that the u.s. doesn't want china to have..
its really sad 'cos it all reflects on the american ppl (sry canada :)
meanwhile, Michelle Obama is selecting which designer outfit she will wear in her next dinner appointment.
gorengyan 4 days ago
War is designed to kill and destroy. What do we expect? We should not be there to begin with. No wonder America is hated. And it is all based on lies!
ezzstreet 8 months ago
Ben is awesome, fuck whoever says otherwise.
xtralimit 11 months ago 2
"How can Robert Gates call this is a setback, when it is so much more?"
Because his job is to assess the situation for the Americans, and his opinion on whether or not this is a tragedy is completely irrelevant. Calling it a setback for the American troops in the country and not just screaming tragedy proves that he is able to keep his head cool and do his job, and not waste breath on making obvious statements.
Thesexycowgod 11 months ago
BTW, Wes you said what is America / West going to gain out of Afghanistan if the Chinese benefit from the mineral discovered by the Americans in Afghanistan?........... The answer is that the Americans & the West (UK) will GAIN MORE ENEMIES!
WAY TO GO AMERICA!
12235117657598502586 11 months ago
Wes = So young & so wise!
Respect man!
Let's have more of you & Ben!
12235117657598502586 11 months ago 6
its not inevitable, leave and dont start more wars
spaik007 11 months ago
Money should never be the reason why a war is fought.
Joxman2k 11 months ago 3
@Joxman2k there is no other reason
spaik007 11 months ago
The only time I ever saw my Dad cry was when he said "a lot of people went away, and very few came back" he was talking about WWII. He was just a kid, but saw the grief of those left behind.
I respect that memory.
Joxman2k 11 months ago 3
Ben + Wes = Awesome war debate
TinBryn 11 months ago 15
So much Quagmire in the mid east, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and you really can't say that some much has changed in those countries, despite all the money that been poured into these wars. Like Treva Etienne's character in Black Hawk Down says even if you kill the top bad bloke, do you all his men, supporters will just drop their guns and surrender, the people will suddenly adopt american democracy, it's not the way it works in their world, killing and warfare is unfortunately all they know.
Remus0387 11 months ago
@DXSXDXSXD There are other jobs around. They may be horrible jobs with little pay but they don't involve murdering people. There is no excuse to resort to murder to make a living. A person can live on the street if they have to, eat out of garbage cans.
elfornse 11 months ago
lol so he's implying that America should get mining rights in Afghanistan because they spent a lot of money there. Who the fuck asked them to go there (& kill countless innocent lives)? Why should anyone else besides Afghanistan get their resources? Hasn't Afghanistan suffered enough? & newsflash it wasn't Afghans who were involved in 911.
EllahaeMehr 11 months ago
Wes and Ben know how to have a rational, experienced, and frank conversation about war and our foreign policy.
DrakeMagnum 11 months ago 2
wes is the fuckin man
VertigoXP 11 months ago
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Jamez773 11 months ago
Killing of American boys-Massive media circus
fonkymaster 11 months ago
I'm really enjoying Wes Clark's commentary.
expojah 11 months ago
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Totallydistortedfilm 11 months ago
"Taliban are animals"
goto hell ... what a rubbish .. you brainwash the US people ... Junk bastards.
Taliban are almost Majority of Afghanistan. and the junk allies of USA are the miniorities living in fortresses to save their *****
snaforfun 11 months ago
Wes Clark jr is just as miserable a creature as his father (see Pristina International Airport incident).
He says "bomb ppl from the air", "you got like a second or two to make a decision" and "you got to make the call" OR "that person could shoot you down".
The UNARMED kids (aged 9-15) we killed by a f-ing HELICOPTER !!!
How do you mistake malnourished 10-12yo kids gathering wood for rebels?
That idiotic base took rocket fire and war criminals decided to kill all that moved in the area.
hyperboreean 11 months ago
@hyperboreean How do you mistake them? Well, easily. There could be any number of factors that could lead a pilot to believe someone is a combatant. Maybe the boys were in an area that intelligence expected Taliban troops to be in. Maybe they wood or tools (if any) the boys were carrying looked vaguely like weapons from a distance. Who knows? It's pretty hard to make a mistake when you're up in way up in the sky blazing along at high speed.
KonigRodskjegg 11 months ago
@KonigRodskjegg How do you know it was a pilot that made the mistake? For that matter, we don't know if more than on chopper was involved, what type(s), etc. Just that helicopter gunners were involved and that some bodies were dismembered by rocket fire. Draw your own conclusions.
The only thing clear is that they did not bother checking who the hell they were shooting/blowing up.
As for the distance/speed argument - gunships have cameras and crews have binoculars.
hyperboreean 11 months ago
@hyperboreean I don't know that it was a pilot who made the mistake, I assumed you were making that assertion, and so I explained how such a mistake could be made.
I guess they could have been spotted by satellite, leading to orders being given to the choppers. This would be even more believable to me. If the kids were somewhere the military didn't want the enemy to be, and they were sufficiently obscured by forest, such an order could be given.
KonigRodskjegg 11 months ago
@KonigRodskjegg I asume the "spotted by satellite" part is parable.
The sad truth is that those guys are Fobbits. When you got a base in a valley you MUST control the ridges.
Had there been snipers/scouts scoping everything that moved in the area it may not have happened.
Second, you assume it was HEAVILY forested or at least enough so that they couldn't tell the difference. That's OK, as long as you realize it's wishful thinking and not evidence based.
hyperboreean 11 months ago
@hyperboreean You seem to be completely misunderstanding me. I am simply trying to explain how this could happen, not how I believed that it did, but you seem to keep interpreting my explanations as excuses for the military.
Neither of our views are based on evidence, but it's obviously reasonable to *assume* that nobody actually meant to kill a bunch of innocent kids; thus my position of defence. If anyone did this deliberately, it's goddamn inexcusable.
KonigRodskjegg 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Even though I was only 11 at the time, to this very day I can see the second plane going in the building just as if I saw it with my very own eyes. And then I hear a recording of some man talking to 911 while the building he's in collapses. I also hear the story of heroism on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania and I sometimes wish I was on that flight just so I could fuck up some terrorist ass before I'd die.
ProtectandServe21 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Even though I was only 11 at the time, to this very day I can see the second plane going in the building as if I saw it in person with my own eyes. And then I hear a recording of some man talking to 911 while the building he's in collapses. I also hear the story of heroism on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania and I sometimes wish I was on that flight just so I could fuck up some terrorist ass before I'd die.
ProtectandServe21 11 months ago
Comment removed
ProtectandServe21 11 months ago
I say we end the wars get are economy fixed and then go kick some Saudi ass. That's a war I would sign up for. I would also fight in Pakistan but, I just don't know what the situation is over there. Also you really can't pick what country you want to go to, to fight. I understand (even though I haven't seen war with my own eyes) that war is no picnic and I'd probably end up dead or fucked up in head, but I'm still pissed about 9/11. Even though I was only 11 at the time I can see it with my own-
ProtectandServe21 11 months ago
They're shirt-buddies!
JuberLOL 11 months ago
I loved this video, Wes Clark was extremely fascinating to listen to. He knows what he's talking about and I could have listened to him talking about this topic for hours.
SociallyUnable 11 months ago
@SociallyUnable Sry, you just have a kiddie-crush on the guy.
He doesn't know shit, but he sure can talk about it.
Don't believe me? Write down every sentence he uttered and FACT CHECK.
hyperboreean 11 months ago
@hyperboreean You act as if Clark Jr. was throwing out stats in this video that I would have to fact check. He was stating opinions that I agree with.
SociallyUnable 11 months ago
@SociallyUnable
"He knows what he's talking about" - your words.
BTW, you don't fact check just statistics, but any statement of "fact" - or presumption thereof.
Ready to backpedal some more? LOL
hyperboreean 11 months ago
God I love Wes Clark
braydenbeautiful 11 months ago
@Joolazoo Look up Michael SChuerer head of CIA, he explains how USA is on the verge of economic collapse
Afghanistan is the grave yard of all major empires from ALexander the Great, to the Mongols empire, the British Empire, Russian Empire now the USA empire.
frozenimran 11 months ago
@frozenimran
not that i don't agree to alot of what you say but British empire died cos 2 world wars and a huge debt (money not gratitude) to the U.S. that took over 60 years to pay back (and there so-post to be their ally).
in my view there is no "winning" this war, it will just keep going on and on and eventually abit like how U.S won the revolutionary war against Britain, the U.S. will loss cos of lack of money and resources to keep fuelling this war.
thatguy24487 11 months ago
@thatguy24487 Well i agree. Afghanistans geography is war like people have acted like a meat grinder for the last 3000 years. Its terrible difficult to control that region. USA is only creating more recruits for groups like Al Qaida by killing more Muslims as Wes pointed out in the video. The west needs to also stop funding dictators in the Muslim world such as the ruler in Saudi, Saleh of Yemen, Zardri of pakistan, Mubarak of egypt and others if they want to control this situation
frozenimran 11 months ago
@Joolazoo Well USA always kills civilians and calls other terrorist but
Victory was defined by USA as 3 things
1- Caputring/killing Mullah Omar and BIn Ladin
2- Defeating taleban and Setting up a effective puppet regime in Afghanistan
3- Removing the AL Qaida
According to your own leaders such as hillary clinton, AL Qaida is stronger then ever, taleban support rose from 67% in 2003 to 88% in 2011 and, USA is unable to control the geography of afghanistan, meaning the enemy has advantage
frozenimran 11 months ago
"the pilots will have to live with what they've done"
I'f you've watched collateral damage you know that they very well could have "yee-haw'ed" as they did it.
o3MTA3o 11 months ago
@o3MTA3o
That's probably just a defense mechanism. Give it a couple of years and then many of them will probably be cutting their wrists open. I'll just take Denmarks troops an an example: Apparently more soldiers have died after they've come home, from suicides, than who died in afghanistan, from enemy fire.
manutd94fanman 11 months ago
@manutd94fanman altho in one way i do agree with you, after having watched a documentary on the my lai massacre one of the soldiers was completly unmoved by the horror he caused. to him it was orders. some people are incapable of feeling guilt. it's hard to imagine that as someone with a conscience.
o3MTA3o 11 months ago
more wes... less idealistic bs!
ddh540 11 months ago
When the fuck did faith win automatic respect.
NanoHorizon 11 months ago
I don't believe the pilots of the helicopters who kill so many innocent people give two shits about it, if you watch the full video of the wiki helicopter slaughter the pilot has absolutely no remorse in his voice when he finds out he killed a bunch of non-combatants and two children and their father. They feel god-like in those machines and are taught not to care, only to kill.
What a great discussion between these two. The US should of been the good example and not the bully after 911.
TheUSMetalhead 11 months ago
Wes, I love you. Seriously.
EngineeringIsMagic 11 months ago 3
WES STOP READING MY MIND
carygoleman 11 months ago
The "relentless cheerleading for war" that Wes refers to is pretty prevalent in fascism
carygoleman 11 months ago
Wes needs to be on networks news talking some informed truth, not like the 'experts' we see that are from some think-tank.
JCRF 11 months ago
The helicopter pilots should be dishonorably discharged. no pension and no pay. what is this? I bet you they signed up to become helicopter pilots cause they thought it would be fun to renenact call of duty 6 in real life. what a bunch of assholes. The video released by wikileaks of a reuteurs journalist being gunned down. The american pilots were laughing and congratulating each other at the end. Any helicopter pilot who does this, should be fired immediately.
TheAce1082 11 months ago
@TheAce1082 It's not a damn game, you know. They don't just fly out there and shoot whatever they like willy nilly. Attacks have to be authorised, and troops are supposed to follow orders. If a pilot decided, by himself, to murder nine Afghan boys merely for "fun", his career would be over and he may end up in jail.
KonigRodskjegg 11 months ago
@KonigRodskjegg Not true. Unauthorized killings by helicopter pilots were the norm, all the pilot had to do was describe the scene and the command center would give him the discretion to do what he wants. Every act committed by a US military personal that ended in the death of a civilian should be considered a war crime being the war itself under US and World law, not to mention our own US Constitution, is ILLEGAL.
TheUSMetalhead 11 months ago
@TheUSMetalhead If the command centre gave discretion, that is by definition NOT unauthorised. Whomever authorises discretion to front-line troops that results in a direct attack on civilians, is guilty, the pilot is not. Now if the pilot were to deliberately misinform command of the situation, then that would be a different story altogether.
KonigRodskjegg 11 months ago
@TheUSMetalhead As for your statement regarding war crimes, it's really not that black and white as I'm sure you know. We should as best as we possibly can avoid any action that may result in injury or death of civilians, but every now and then someone gets caught in the crossfire. It really sucks, but that's no war crime.
KonigRodskjegg 11 months ago
@TheAce1082 no such thing as call of duty 6..... noob
FenderTelecast 11 months ago
@FenderTelecast Just to let you know, Call Of Duty 6 is Modern Warfare 2, so it does exist. Just type it in on youtube here, plenty of videos.
TheUSMetalhead 11 months ago
@FenderTelecast COD 5 isn't even out.
NanoHorizon 11 months ago
@TheAce1082 I agree completely. They should be charged with war crimes just as the entire Bush admin and congress should be. Not only did the heli pilot laugh and have no remorse after he killed the journalists and the two children with the father in the van that tried to give medical help to one of the journalists who survived the slaughter, but he said "their parents should of known better to bring children to a battle scene." The entire country was a battle scene. Absolutely disgusting act.
TheUSMetalhead 11 months ago
The story with the tree was a little bit different, the Americans were the ones who wanted to chop the tree, but it's true that they were not allowed to have guns and were killed.
595o 11 months ago
Perhaps better training and actual punishments would work?
....
MitchofSmeg 11 months ago
@MitchofSmeg But that requires a degree of intelligence, and unfortunately, they're American. So, although your plan is sensible, its sadly not possible.
GooGobbler113 11 months ago
"Asking who won a given war, someone has said, is like asking who won the San Francisco earthquake" -- Kenneth Waltz
PhilHaqeeqa 11 months ago
Not a time for joking Ben. We need more Wes.
MavenCree 11 months ago 2
I wish Wes was on more often
alfredoooddd 11 months ago 3
I love Wes.
etowngftddummy 11 months ago
I think I have a man crush on Wes.
Saaduk92 11 months ago 27
@Saaduk92 dude - thats what it is exactly! he really is awesome.
PhilHaqeeqa 11 months ago
@Saaduk92
I'm not certain I have a man crush on Wes, but I like his attitude.
:P
Joxman2k 11 months ago
@Saaduk92 LOL
TAz69x 8 months ago
Wes needs to host the show!
koya25555 11 months ago 2
This video was so worth the 12 minutes.
CHAOSoriginal 11 months ago 3
Here's an idea. We can bring all our troops home now and save a hundred innocent lives.
CHAOSoriginal 11 months ago
@CHAOSoriginal
You forget how many will die when the taliban retake control.
MitchofSmeg 11 months ago
As an Afghan, i'm disgusted. But, am i surprised? no. And let me just say, its not always an accident.
elmirasahar 11 months ago 2
in vietnam they would give kids grenades to drop at soldiers feet, so whatya do?
OrogDeMalfur 11 months ago
@OrogDeMalfur
Easy to say when its not your country being invaded.
rencrow 11 months ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you are nice guys but watching you made me very very sick in the stomach. I felt like ı was watching two british gentlemen in a men's club talking about the situation in the "oriental" colonies in 19th century. I understand you mean well and try to be symphetatic but So I see it makes no difference between a liberal or a consevative when it comes to orientalism; a westerner is a westerner.
rasnac 11 months ago
@rasnac You started with murder of nine innocent boys and in the end of the video you were talking about mineral resources of Afghanistan and why US failed to take advantage of those resources. I don't think iti is concious thoughh. I believe deep inside this is the mindset of every westerner.
rasnac 11 months ago
@rasnac Oh come one, everyone sometimes thinks in pragmatic and not just all-idealistic terms.
595o 11 months ago
ha that kid is pretty good
war1931 11 months ago
Support the troops, bring them home.
RaynMan718 11 months ago 2
These two propagandists are something else.
Oh, the stories they tell...
jag10 11 months ago
The setback is easy to fix. Pay the families what would have been paid to US families if their kids were accidentally killed by the army.
n3rdm4n 11 months ago
@n3rdm4n
money can't replace a loved one and some could see that as an insult
thatguy24487 11 months ago
@thatguy24487 Possibly. But it's better than just saying "I'm sorry."
n3rdm4n 11 months ago
Wes is such a great opinion on this show, I hate that that snob ben is always on his ass.
hanaryukoku 11 months ago 2
WES CLARK Jr!!!!!!! hell yeah!!!
803brando 11 months ago 2
YESSSSSSSSSSS its WESSSSSSSSSSS
moonightlight1990 11 months ago 22
shit i hate human we have fucked up this earth
and now its coming back to haunt us
aylix89 11 months ago
Alot of soldiers are criminals that just want to use their awesome gun and see just how badass it is. They fight and kill civilians more than they fight the terrorists.
shawnoodles 11 months ago
thank you for the wes
renton2872 11 months ago 2
only the dead have seen the end of war
ucdeBZ 11 months ago 3
Democracy: Leaders without hats
Cujoh 11 months ago
taleban united a poor country country devasted by Britian in the 1800s, Russia in the 1900s then USA in the 21st century. So dont give me this shit that they are barbaric. They are warriors and they kicked every western super powers ass and are doing the same to the murderous US empire
frozenimran 11 months ago
@frozenimran Being barbaric and being a warrior are not mutually exclusive. Taliban, Blackwater, both can fight and both are scum.
SabreKitteh 11 months ago 4
@SabreKitteh That's true, but the purpose of the fighting is an important factor. One fights for profit and without glorifying the taliban, the other fights for their people. The only problem is amoral lobbyists and the media just sway public perception on what is truly happening.
rza1m 11 months ago 3
@SabreKitteh I disagree, Alot of BS is put on USA media about taleban. The truth is they were formed after a teen age girl was being raped by a Communist afghans,: Islamic students banned together and saved her. Talban then united a country and brought security, killed nearly all communist gangsters left from Russian era, eliminated Opium drug trade, reduced rape, brought economic stablity, and began setting up segregated schools for girls and boys, im from that region
frozenimran 11 months ago
These two guys know what they are talking about, we need more news people like thse.
rubengify 11 months ago 2
Comment removed
rubengify 11 months ago
Theres a video on wikileaks, which is similar to the one their talking about. Around a dozen rueters news photographer where shot at by American apache helicopter, some children were also inured in the attack. After the attack the soldier mounting the gun was radioed that there where children involved in the attack and had been shot in the chest, only to be replied by 'Well it's there fault for bringing their kids to a battle'
Thumbs this up so people get a chance to see this
rza1m 11 months ago 4
Any asshole that supports foreign troops in Afghanistan, supports the killing of innocents.
llamahamfat 11 months ago 21
@llamahamfat Yes! al-qaeda get out of afghanistan!
ReclusiveKind 11 months ago
@ReclusiveKind Kid, I said foreign troops. (U.S.A, Canada, etc.)
llamahamfat 11 months ago
@llamahamfat Son, I said Al Qaeda. (foreign jihadist)
ReclusiveKind 11 months ago
Because some crazy extremists crash into two towers, killing 3,000, including Muslims, it's OK to kill 1 million innocent people and ridicule a religion practiced by 2.5 billion and its followers. Right?
Ez3monie 11 months ago 5
@Ez3monie
If nothing else, just please believe by my answer that you're not the only one in the world that thinks that your point isin the most certain sense true..(!)
phillipbailey70 11 months ago
Pilots dont effing care... If there is any karma, the shoe should one day be on the other foot.
Should we really be sorry about the pilots? Really??
And uniforms? Charlie cant afford uniforms!
thuyclides 11 months ago
Pilots dont effing care... If there is any karma, the shoe should one day be on the other foot.
Should we really be sorry about the pilots? Really??
thuyclides 11 months ago
@DXSXDXSXD They're not pawns. Soldiers enlist out of their own free will knowing that their primary function is to kill people. Soldiers ARE murderers.
elfornse 11 months ago
As an ex-soldier myself, I've gotta say that Wes is freaking awesome.
DavidoftheWest 11 months ago
I'm sure it was deliberate. Afghanistan had no connection to 9/11. These gruesome killers do not care who they kill. Fuck the establishment.
mynameis677 11 months ago
If an invading army killed my children or anyone else in my family or friends, I would hate them and their country forever. I would kill as many of them as possible. They could only stop me by killing me. I am an American. People from Afghanistan are my brothers and sisters. I would expect them to do the same.
menthol5 11 months ago 61
@menthol5 .....agreed a 100 percent...its just people dont see this basic conflict....u are in thr country...they are not in ur country....when u kill thr children, it will drive them mad, as am sure when some one comes to ur country and bomb ur kids to death would......but people just dont value thr lives as much as Mr Ben said, its not that big a deal....
majesticmaniac 11 months ago
@menthol5 Even the innocent people of that country? That's wise...
FusedHalos 11 months ago
@menthol5 so true...you are totally right and expressing my feelings and thoughts on that issue nearly better as i could (at least not in english)-and for the rightwing-idiots-no i'm not from a arabic-country i'm austrian with is a chatolic-country and i'm not a moslem.i see it the same way as you- people from Afganistan are also my brothers and sisters-cos for me there are just 2 sorts of people in the world-kind,intelligent people and assholes-we are all the same- humans
Luke77rat 11 months ago
@menthol5 WHY does this comment have so many thumbs up? This man just advocated killed US troops. I understand the complications and being against the war... But holy shit.
JCRF 11 months ago
@menthol5 We create more terrorists then we destroy in the war on terror.
ProtectandServe21 11 months ago
@menthol5 That is stupid. You can't legitimately judge an ENTIRE country based on the action of SOME. I agree that Afghanistan deserves respect, but so does EVERY country. I can't believe 55 idiots upvoted this.
Numbuh7 11 months ago
@menthol5
the problem with a eye for a eye is everyone goes blind
thatguy24487 11 months ago 2
@thatguy24487 violence begets violence. Killing them would give my life meaning.
menthol5 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thatguy24487 violence begets violence. Killing them would give my life meaning.
menthol5 11 months ago
I like these guys, hard to fill in for Cenk and Ana and they're very different people, but they do it well.
niemanickurwa 11 months ago
The government has the blood on their hands, and WE have the bill. Fuckers...
coopmuch56 11 months ago
People are people everywhere. We all hate occupying troops and the country they are from. War is immoral.
Good job Wes!
menthol5 11 months ago
His view point is very similar to alot of ex soldiers.
(basically they just want the bullshit to end)
mlking213 11 months ago
Oh, come on, Wes! You shouldn't have anything to do with Irak OR Afganistan! Do progressive americans still believe that your corporation-controlled state is capable of good deeds abroad? There are always foreign-haters but people everywhere mostly like you people and the USA, we just fight out of need to get away from the clutches of the violent, overarmed, "free"-market imposer EMPIRE. Please, good people everywhere must help the world to finish it's influence (a south-american viewer).
yeohudi 11 months ago
We all like Wes but he's dead wrong on one thing: those pilots are NOT feeling guilt.
You don't mow down crowds of unarmed people and still get to hold onto a single SCRAP of humanity.
OcularPolitics 11 months ago
So, not having the rules of engagement- sucks. Having the rules of engagement- sucks. Isn't war grand?
Dradeeus 11 months ago
Going into afghanistan had nothing to do with osama bin laden, that was just a distraction. In discussions about afghanistan everyone keeps talking about bin laden and iraq but why don't we just talk about the elephant in the room. We tend to forget that afghanistan is rich with oil & natural resources & is a strategic location. The US couldn't care less about democracy in the middle east (or anywhere else) or the rights of women. In fact REAL democracy would never favour the US and its agenda.
leeeennaa007 11 months ago 6
Ben rules.
watermelonygoodness 11 months ago
Wes makes a lot of sense....Ben sounds like a dumbass sometimes. Wes sums it up why people in afghanistan + iraq hate us so much..if someone killed my kid even if it was my own family memeber.....you know it's on. I'll tear them a part like a K9.
nyznicca 11 months ago
wes
WhatIsItThatYouNeed 11 months ago
ben ruined it
damon858 11 months ago
We should just promote Karzai Generalissimo and GTFO. As long as he is pro-west, I couldnt care less.
tommysch 11 months ago
Love Wes.
matfei 11 months ago
Oh noes, if we kill off all the Afghan boys what will become of Man Love Thursday?
ProfessorxVile 11 months ago
Wes is good, but he always speaks like we should know what he's talking about, he
s a good opinion guy but I'd appreciate it if he'd explain his views in a more general manner... And Ben's growing on me. He's funnier now:)
jorgie169 11 months ago
wes is the fucking man, even though he is only on the show now and then he fucking kicks ass!!! it would be tight for him to do some topvlogs
wpolo1087 11 months ago
They where cut up because they had no bullets in there guns they couldn’t fight back
Nice way of summing up my anti gun control position
I ask what happens when some one puts you in that situation because the top % always makes the decisions, so how are you supposed to fight back if they take away your means to do so or if you willingly give it up. what happend to every 20 years mabe thats why gov is so fucked up now.
just take more then a second to check what your pointing it at
darkblood626 11 months ago
WES COAST.. WES COAST
kirby7979 11 months ago
I cant comprehend the generals and politicians who cant understand why we "Americans" are not being seen as heroes in Afghanistan. Its as if France or Germany invaded America to protect the world from Mexicans. It is so outrageously pathetic....words cant describe it. the same goes for there general disregard for human life, but especially American life. Bring them home already.
CorrerPorVida 11 months ago 5
Wes, the epitome of common sense
biggydx 11 months ago 93
I can't figure out if Ben loves it when Wes Clark Jr. is on the show or hates it. He seems to amp up the devil's advocate level and just feeds Wes opportunities to rant. I love it.
Phloid82 11 months ago
LOL, looks like everyone has a crush on Wes xD
BrokenNames 11 months ago 3
Ben is awesome!
jeb31415 11 months ago
that is how it is 9 guys lets just kill them shit that is a simple equation...those pilots don't give a shit about those 9 boys they give a shit that it has becomes big news. They went into afghanistan to kill afghan men and secure those minerals they went for. The goal is to kill and soldiers jobs are to kill. WTF are you talking about haunt them.
allianceFiLifeDotCom 11 months ago
@allianceFiLifeDotCom
you have no clue.
Keldrath 11 months ago
thats how it is9 guys lets just kill them shit...
allianceFiLifeDotCom 11 months ago
Fuck any of you for not supporting the soldiers a 100 percent. when they're way up in the sky in helicopters, how can they tell what kind of ppl are on the ground? sure it might be a bunch of sheep herders, or a wedding party, or 9 kids collecting firewood.. OR IT MIGHT BE A FUCKIN TALIBAN DEATH SQUAD!! When your in the heat of battle (way up in the sky), there's no time for reconnaissance. u civilians wouldn't understand
USA army motto: Shoot now, ask questions later... maybe.
chefawkes 11 months ago
@chefawkes Are you kidding? If you can't tell who you're shooting out, DO NOT SHOOT. Those 9 boys collecting wood did not pose a threat to the helicopter. A plank of wood does not look like a rocket launcher. If you can't do the job without unneccesarily killing innocent people, DO NOT enlist.
We DO support the soldiers. We love them. What we are against is the 1% of soldiers who act irresponsibly, or illegaly, and detrimentally effect the reputation for the rest. We LOVE the rest.
OrthodoxAtheist 11 months ago
@OrthodoxAtheist
read it again, but from a sarcastic viewpoint.
chefawkes 11 months ago
@chefawkes Sarcasm is a subtle wine.
RememberJudas314 11 months ago
@RememberJudas314
yes but i felt i needed to lay it on thick to avoid a misunderstanding like this. i never thought it wouldn't be thick enough.
chefawkes 11 months ago
@chefawkes
People like you is the reason noone likes us in the world. We are hated everywhere...even our best friend brits think we are full of shit. It's all good though...every dog has it's day and our days are limited because of our uncontrollable desire to spread the wings in the world. Wings can only stretch so much and just watch when we get roasted. It won't be nice.
nyznicca 11 months ago
@chefawkes Um dont they ever try to LOOK CLOSER WITH BONICHOLES you know telescopes? DONT THEY HAVE ANY? I dont support soldiers dying for a stupid war we got into or killing civilians than "terrorists" and going on a goose chase. You the one you dont understand.
Saffroncreature 11 months ago
@Saffroncreature They don't use the technology they have properly or efficiently because the biggest most painful oxymoron in all of human language is "Military-Intelligence"
GooGobbler113 11 months ago
@chefawkes Soldiers or not, innocent kids were killed but I have the sense that you think just because the soliders are American and the kids were Afghans that the pilots should be given a medal and sent on their way. It was their fucking job to know when to shot and when to hold fire and they made a decision that cost 9 innocent lives.
SociallyUnable 11 months ago
Here Wes and Ben manage to curtail their arrogance and disdain for each other--long may it continue! Wes plays the role of Cenk, Ben plays the role of Ana.
philipsidney 11 months ago
We shouldn't have been in Afghanistan in the first place. There should have been a full investigation of the CIA and other state organizations. The American gov't screwed up. Now Afghanistan produces herion and drugs for the world to consume. Afghanistan was a stepping stone to Iraq and the expansion of the American empire. Get out of Afghanistan and Pakistan now!!!
wanker89 11 months ago
Say it like it is Wes. Good stuff.
Domzdream 11 months ago 3
Wes really did a good job here. Notice the body language when he covered his mouth as he said some of his friends work for "central intelligence." He sooo did not want to say that, but it slipped out anyway. --It's OK Wes, you didn't reveal anything we couldn't guess already.
dafttool 11 months ago 3
maybe just bomb it to the stoneage then sell rebuilding rights to "american" companys :)
collateral murder ftw.. bet the boys had stones looking like granades and sticks looking like rifles and a middle finger looking like an rpg. clearly had it coming like any other civilian living in a war zone.
and its not about the $1trillion in mineral resources that the u.s. doesn't want china to have..
its really sad 'cos it all reflects on the american ppl (sry canada :)
until the next financial crash..
inphuriated 11 months ago
agree with all of it, except the taliban are not animals
cikcikosman 11 months ago
@corpen11
even so, when 9 kids just got murdered, why are we even spending one second thinking how sad it must've been for the soldiers??
chefawkes 11 months ago
@chefawkes The Young Turks have been taken over by the imperialist. Listen to them weep over soldiers who killed 9 children.
allianceFiLifeDotCom 11 months ago