warszawianka njpiekniejszy utwor dla ucha zolnierza.... mowi o wszystkim co najwazniejsze dla patrioty. pozdrawiam wszystkich mundurowych.... 1 kolobrzeski batalion zmechanizowany
@mrwicio35 co ty rozmawiasz?pierwszym podstawowym instrumentem muzycznym w wojsku była trąba i bęben lub werbel bądź kocioł służący do wybijania rytmu maszerującej piechocie juz nie wspominając o tarabanach z naszego hymnu.wiesz li co zacz taraban ???
jak wojsko znasz z jutuba to radzę sie doszkolić pozdrawiam
@mickey0004w nie znam "wojska z jutuba", znam za to Orkiestrę Reprezentacyjną Sił Powietrznych Z Poznania, w której grałem kilka lat pierwszą tubę i na żadnym koncercie nie prezentowaliśmy kotłów bo swoim niskim brzmieniem zagłuszały basy i resztę perkusji... A o tarabanach w armii to widać sam musisz się doszkolić, zamiast używać niezrozumiałych przez siebie cytatów...
that’s 1910...Poland would finally regain its independence 9 years later.... 124 years of deportations, inability to build, prosper...experience the industrial revolution as a unique culture? I think you‘re smart enough to realize the consequences of being in bondage through such a crucial period of western cultural development. Your example comes too little too late.
Strage through how Poland was tolerant to Royal Prussia, no?
@LuluPolska1 Nobody oppressed you 'very much'. In fact the Austrian Empire made Polish culture flourish like it had never done before 1776! This is a fact. And Prussian rule was not very oppressive. If we talk about oppression, let's mention the oppression and persecution of innocent ethnic Germans in 1919-1939, or the Expulsion (genocide!) from 1945 to 1948 against eastern Germans and ethnic Germans by the Polish state and the Polish mob.
@IustitiaPax Lol dude, You know how many Poles were killed in the years 1793 - 1918? 8 fucking millions. "Light occupation"? Kulturkampf, the Austrian police and the deportation huh. And what about the kidnapping Polish children by Prussian and Austrian families. Don't mention here about the Russkies because it was a Asian hell. Poor Germans, they killed 40 million people and now they're upset cause some of them go to the west. 5 millions Poles were also deported to the west. The Ruskies did it
@Koza727 8 million Poles "killed" from 1793 - 1918? You mean in Napoleonic Wars as Napoléontists or in 1830 Polish Uprising and by the tsars? Hardly 8 million. Many Poles emigrated to the United States and France, they were not "killed", but they left. Kulturkampf killed not one single person. The Austrian Empire was véry tolerant towards Poles indeed - and this always. And entire Cieszyn Silesia loves Franz Joseph I and Karol I. Germans killed 40 million? Maybe two billion in Polish "history"?
@IustitiaPax Wy had many Uprisings, and Tzarist Russia were VERY brutal. German population today is +/- 80 mln. Poland= 40 mln + 25 mln Polonia("Foreign Poles"). That's called Great imigration. It was caused by repressions in the three occupation zones. Kulturkampf was Very brutal too like "Russification" in Congress Kingdom. Austrian occupation zone was the mildest, but there was also a lot of mass murder (as in Galicia)I was once on German history lesson, and that was "History"
@IustitiaPax Next thing. I was talking aboat WWII and all victims of combined. I During WWII were killed 6 million Poles, which is documented. If i even thinking that the number of murdered Jews is to inflate that the number of killed Poles don't even discuss Erika Steinbach. Meeen And where is the point of our discussion.
@Koza727 As Narodn. Demokr. member you are a Polish nationalist, so you imply that you deny or revise the alleged statistic of 2.8 to 3 million Polish Jews being killed. But to you the "3 million ethnic Poles" number is a rigid number? I think the number of emigrants, Soviet-deported Poles (not victims of the Nazi occupation and Armia Krajowa vs. German Wehrmacht partisan fights) and missing refugees or Belarussified Poles is high, and the true number around 1.9 to 2.2 million ethnic Polish.
@Koza727 I am an independent man, and I am no member in the League of Expellees of Mrs. Dr. Erika Steinbach-Herrmann. Steinbach is a very cultured, skilled politician who pleads for the rights of the German expellees as a CDU member and League president. She is demonized by Polish anti-German propaganda. But historical truth is historical truth. And it will appear and be victorious. Even if working slowly. Also, I highly like Poles. I am from Holland, not Germany. I am pro-PL and pro-German.
@IustitiaPax The truth is that Erika forgot what price you must pay for two world wars. Do you think that I like current borders? Hell No! Once Poland was a power, from the Baltic to the Black Sea. Our king had his regents on thrones of Sweden, Courland, Hungary, the Czech kingdom and the Tsarat. In the past our borderlands were at Kursk and far behind Moscow. How we lost it is another story. During WWII we lost the most. I didn't get a single coin of war reparations. Tfu!
@Koza727 But Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth borderlands were NEVER ethnic Polish inhabited. But Breslau, Stettin, Danzig, Allenstein, Landsberg an der Warthe, Neisse O.S., Bunzlau, Königsberg and Kolberg were 100 % German-populated.
@IustitiaPax Aaaa i see your post about Nations in I RP. I'll send u a film With Fire and sword with english subtitles. Poles Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Rusyns died for this Country. Why? "Golden rights", no persecution (Parliament lined up taxes, the King was elective and had no real power. It is fall of the nobility and their fight for "gold rights", there was no discipline and no army, full liberalism. Well, the empress Catherine, Frederick the Great and Austrian Emperors saw it...
@Koza727 This is no discussion on I RP. Most soldiers who died for 1st RP (Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in worldwide historical terminology) however were ethnic Germans of Poland, not merely Bambrzy, but especially the Germans of Royal Prussia (see niem. Eidechsenbund). The ethnic Germans of Ermland defended the Polish Crown's property against the Teutonic Order. And inside the Teutonic Order were fighting archaic Polish-speaking Masurians against Polish kings.
@IustitiaPax Order came to Poland in times of duke Konrad Mazowiecki. At that time Poland was divided into principalities "thanks" to the last will of Boleslaw Krzywousty. Germans flee o Poland from Prussia in serch of Golden Freedom, Prussia was a military country, and nobody wanted to serve in military (15 years, in Russia 25 years) Poland was a multinational, but was able to reconcile the needs of all social groups. Even Khmelnitsky posted in the official letters that "The RP is a mother."
@Koza727 Prussia had nobody who wanted to serve in military? Many wanted to serve in it. Prussian Army was the most respected army of the world. Unlike the Polish and tsarist Russian armies. I know that Chmielnicki was initially a loyal son of the Polish Crown. So were the Germans of Danzig. But still in 1793 AD Danzig (independent since 1776 AD) asked to be allowed to join the Kingdom of Prussia.
@IustitiaPax The Prussian army was respected and able to mobilize 2 million people, but the discipline and brutality in it gained a mythical dimension. Khmelnytsky, was a Ukrainian and cared about the fate of the Ukrainians. The revolt caused a personal matter, a nobleman .... but you have already watched it. This is a very complicated matter because the country had no money to mobilize all the Ukrainians, and so imposed the restriction (Rejestr, Rejestr- Cossacks).And Cossacks wanted to fight.
@Koza727 The Prussian Army never had a reputation for "brutality" at all. What are you talking about? This is a Myth. Indeed. A myth from Polish early falsification of history. Even Radziwill were in the Prussian Army! The Chmielnicki Uprising was an uprising against the Latin Poles and against their bankers and servants, the Jews of Poland.
@IustitiaPax Khmelnytsky uprising was directed against the family Vishnyevetskis. After many wars senators gave no special rights to the Cossacks and the situation with the registry. Khmelnytsky stole Kings letters encouraged resistance against the nobility.As I said it's a very complicated situation. It just so happens that I am in possession of "letters of Mr. Veit Narwoj." This gentleman was drafted into the army of Frederick the Great by force. And describe all the facts.
@Koza727 The Prussian Army of Frederick the Great was militaristic, but not brutal and not criminal. It was an organized army of a Secular King of Prussia. That is all. Yes, Prussia partitioned Poland with Russia and Austria. But like Austria, the Prussian king allowed Polish nobility and created the Grand Duchy of Poznan himself. And Austrians were very pro-Polish. Under Austria, Lwów became a truly Polish majority city. Before 1776, Lwów had been a 30 %-30%-40% mixture of Jews, Ruthenians, PL
@IustitiaPax The Austrians had a debt to pay off as once said Kaiser. What does not change the fact that it still was occupation the least bloody occupation but occupation (slaughter in Galicia, ). Duchy of Poznan was a marionette, and after kulturkampf incorporated into the Germany.
@Koza727 Kulturkampf was not in 1846, but 1871-1886. The Grand Duchy of Posen was dissolved in 1846 due to the 1830 and 1846 Polish National Uprisings. As for Austrian Partition: there was no 'slaughter' in Galicia. You mean the suppression of uprising? The Polish persecution of ethnic Germans was more violent than peaceful, school-politics of Kulturkampf. Drzymała in the end won before German court! Prussia was a legal, peaceful state. Michał comes from Hebrew: Michaël - Quis ut Deus. Not PL!
@IustitiaPax Kulturkampf lasted throughout the whole occupation in a greater or lesser extent. For Bismarck, this process was particularly brutal. I mean slaughter in 1846. See "Rzeź galicyjska" by Jan Lewicki. Name Michael appeared before Christianity came. Misha-Bear, Michał in Polish. Prussia was the iron state law, Fair only for the Germans. Hundreds of thousands Polish Families experienced this.
@Koza727 Kulturkampf lasted from 1871 to 1889. Not longer, no less. And it was an anti-Catholic policy, not merely or per se anti-Polish. The "slaughter" you speak about were military Polish uprisings suppressed by the hegemonious powers. If you rise up militarily, you can be shot or defeated. This is not "slaughter" of unarmed. If you believe that Michaël is "Polish name" and Prussia was "fair only for Germans" you make up your own Polish chauvinist lies. It is primitive. Too much for me.
@IustitiaPax You call my words lies Pax, but put yourself in my situation. For me, it's your words are fabricated. Kulturkampf as the definition of such a policy of Bismarck, but the fight with Polish culture began immediately after the loss of independence. Poles were unstable and not material to assimilate. Austrian officers were paying high for head of Polish Galician landowner during Galician massacre, Germany openly supported Russia in the fight against national liberation uprisings.
@Koza727 In 1830 and 1846, no unified Germany existed, and the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation had gone down in 1806. Prussia in 1870 founded the (second) German Empire, but in 1846 Prussia never represented Germany. I know little about the 'Galician massacre' you refer too. It must be another nationalist Polish myth or a small incident boomed up into a huge thing, like Michal Drzymala's wagon was (and falsified thrice with a phoney wagon). Prussia was hierarchical, not a tyranny.
@IustitiaPax III Reich or the Soviet union were also hierarchical, but what about it when the country is militarized, and absolute. Poland, even in times of dictatorship of Sanacja wasn't military state . Poland is a country of individualists and free mens, you can't force free Pole to do anything when he see a whip or a stick. He will revolt and even die, but he will never kneel.
@Koza727 David Lloyd George travelled Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire as a student. I still have no reference or source for the "Galician massacre" of "2,000 Polish noblemen". Seems a laughable myth to me, as I know Habsburg very well. Your romanticism about Polish "freedom for all men" did not count when enslaving Germans after 1945, expropriating between 1919-1939. And the Polish individualism also produced chaos and disorder before 1776 AD already.
Speak to people who survived the genocide in Volhynia.
My aunt is still alive.She's happy to tell you about raped and murdered children,tortured men,massacred human bodies.It will be nice to realize one more ignorant and pseudo-historian.
@Dowgird77 You think I deny the massacres of Polish civilians by UPA in Volhynia? I do not. I just reply, that the Armia Krajowa and NSZ in Sanok and Galicia also committed 'revenge massacres' against ethnic Lemko and against ethnic Ukrainian populations. I know ks. Isakowicz-Zaleski from a speech he gave before us. Many people were victims. Not only Poles. And I was writing about the Polish massacres in Upper Silesia in 1920-1922 against Silesian civilians in St. Annaberg etc.
@IustitiaPax Poles fought on many fronts of the Second World War.They fought for your country(gen.Stanisław Sosabowski and 1 SBS -1067 polish soldiers - Operation "Market Garden" battle of Arnhem.)
Do at least one Dutchman gave his life for my country?
@Dowgird77 Pourquoi mourir pour Danzig? Why should Dutchmen or French soldiers die for the March to September 1939 Polish war provocations and Polish Józef Beck-Rydz-Smigly-Moscicki-inspired war threats and the Polish partial mobilization? We always commemorate the Polish Forces of the West. An aunt of mine married a Polish veteran of the Battle of Breda (October 1944), Wisniewski from Kraków. Poland in 1945 was victim of false hopes of the war and exile government in pro-Communist Roosevelt.
@ClassicMusicOnly Not the entire Second World War, but the 1939 Polish War with the German Empire and the Soviet Union was. That is, the war with Germany was provoked. The Soviets merely profited from the weakening of the Polish western front on Sept. 17, 1939. Diplomatic facts from March 1939 until August 31, 1939 (or August 23, 1939) speak for themselves. Hitler made numerous compromises. But the German dictator also bears responsibility though. But the outbreak of war was not Germany's fault!
@IustitiaPax That's complete rubbish. Poland did not provoke a war, Hitler had plans on invading Poland. What speaks for itself is the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. It is completely ignorant to attempt to say that Germany didn't want war, or that it attacked Poland because it felt threatened. That's Nazi propaganda and rubbish - and you have begun to believe its lie. Hitler had plans to create a German Empire which would rule Europe, World War 2 was no accident but Nazi plans which failed.
@ClassicMusicOnly The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact did not exist in March 1939. It was a August 23, 1939 last resort attempt by German diplomacy, in order to prevent a crushing of Germany from two sides or three sides. Poland in April 1939 with the UK and Maxim Litvinov (Soviet minister of foreign affairs) discussed an alliance against Germany and Italy (and against other states). PL refused Soviet military bases inside Poland, and PL did not want to allow attacks against Slovakia.
You still speak lies. I'm not saying that Poland did not attempt to make a coalition to destroy Germany, or the Soviet Union for that matter - but the pact with France and the United Kingdom were made to protect Poland from Germany. Its completely idiotic to say that Germany was very weak or state that they didn't want war. If they didn't want war they would not invade Poland or outline in the Ribbentrop-Molotov plan what Europe's borders would be after a series of wars.
@ClassicMusicOnly No, the Entente pact of Poland (with UK and France) was a pact of military assistance, and Polish provocations were meant to be a pretext for a full-scale invasion. But the Polish colonels' regime did not realize, that French did not want to die for 100 % ethnic German city of Danzig, and that the UK had already secretly promised Kresy in 1938-39 to the USSR and awaited a Soviet-Nazi onslaught against Poland. Poland was aggressive, but duped by far-away "allies" in 1939!
@ClassicMusicOnly Poland joined up with France and UK against Germany, which stood alone back then (Italy never declared war against Poland in 1939). And the fear for encirclement by heavily mechanized French Army and a Polish Army made Germany even close an alliance with her worst enemy, the Soviet Union. It is not Nazi propaganda, but it is the harsh facts. Read Polish newspapers from January 1939 until August 1939 and read the threats against Germany and ethnic Germans of Poland!
Germany didn't stand completely alone before the outbreak of World War 2, they signed a military alliance with Italy on May 22, 1939. To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying that Poland was without fault completely, however you cannot say it was Poland's fault for Germany attacking it on September 1. Hitler had plans of eliminating Poland as well as quite frankly all of Europe for his master German race, and saying that Hitler had no plans of invasion is simply Nazi justification.
@ClassicMusicOnly Complete nonsense, like all Polish propaganda and brainwashing in Polish schools. Germany indeed attacked on Sept. 1, 1939, but this was due to numerous Polish border violations from Marhc 1939 until Aug 31, 1939. Hitler never had any plans to eliminate Poland, and Hitler wanted Poland to become an ally of Germany instead. Hitler loved Pilsudski. Hitler was an Austrian, not a Prussian landlord or anti-Catholic anti-Pole like Ludendorff was!
@IustitiaPax Polish propaganda? You are the one, sir, that is brainwashed and this is by Nazi propaganda. Believing in things like Operation Himmler which were an attempt to justify German invasion on Poland is completely ignorant and simply stupid. If Hitler "loved Pilsudski" and at least liked Poland he would have not killed over 2 million Polish citizens, divide Poland between the Soviet Union and his Germany nor attack it in the first place - he would look for a peaceful solution.
@ClassicMusicOnly The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact was a last-resort surprise compromise on August 23, 1939, something Hitler never liked to do personally (some Prussian landlords did, they hated Polish anti-German chauvinism more than they feared the strong USSR). Germany in 1939 was very weakly mechanized, had a weak army, only a relatively strong air force (nothing more). The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was made after months of Polish war threats against Germany since Nov. 1938 (annexation Zaolzie!)
@IustitiaPax You are anything but a Genies. Calling you an idiot is the lightest of forms a respectful man could. Your Nazi justification, as well as using Nazi Propaganda as so called facts shows how brainwashed, you yourself are. True history, shows the correct facts as we know it. Of course, different events are omitted like the fact that peaceful little Poland was attacked by great big German, however stating that Poland itself wanted to be invaded is complete slander!
@ClassicMusicOnly Of course Poland did not want to be invaded. I never said this. Polish newspapers (HAVE YOU RESEARCHED NEWSPAPER ARCHIVES BY NOW?) all proclaimed new maps in May 1939, showing annexed cities like Stettin and even Stralsund and Wolgast in Polish borders. And Poland thought on Sept. 1, 1939, that France would attack and that Poland would stand in Berlin within two weeks. Poland was never 'peaceful'. That is a myth. Churchill called Poland a "hyena" - Zaolzie, Nov. 1938!
@ClassicMusicOnly I am open-minded and base my conviction on history upon diplomatic documents. Not on forgeries, Allied propaganda, Polish propaganda or the Soviet post-1945 falsification of history. Why do you think the British secret services do not disclose their archives on 1930s and 1940s as early as 2016? They postponed it. Diplomatic contacts, treaties, all prove the war goals. Please read: Finland i stormens öga, 2004 by Erkki Hautamäki, Finnish officer and historian!
@IustitiaPax I'm family with maps showing a larger Poland, therefore I don't need to reach the newspaper archives. However, simple maps do not prove anything. This is not Polish or Allied propaganda, its true historical facts. You base your facts on Nazi propaganda which said something quite similar to what you are saying - that solely Polish border violations and so called Polish threats of war caused the outbreak of World War 2. You theory is not completely without support.
@ClassicMusicOnly You should research news archives from 1938 and 1939 and you will see what the Polish foreign policy and propaganda were about. I base none of my conclusions on Nazi propaganda at all. This is ridiculous. I base myself upon a variety of sources, all post-war historians, and contemporary documents. I also researched by myself the 1939 evaluations of diplomacy in the Dutch newspapers, which were indeed still quite neutral back then. Polish Army mobilized as early as March 1939!
@IustitiaPax However, it lacks many things. For instance, if Hitler was so friendly to the Polish people, why did he exterminate them and displace them? You even find an explanation for that which is completely without facts. Furthermore, the theory that the Polish allies abandoned Poland is also quite strange. They didn't fight directly for some time, however they did declare war. However, I am curious how you are so sure of your theory if you yourself said that English archives are postponed?
@ClassicMusicOnly Hitler never "exterminated" the Polish people and the official Nazi policy was only the resettlement of post-1919 Polish immigrants from Gdynia and Woiew. Poznan to General Government. Only in Zamosc, the SS and RSHA tried to displace Poles. You cannot blame UPA terror upon the Nazis. Research yourself about the SIS (MI5 and MI6) archives on 1930-1950 and diplomatic sources. The declaration of war of Sept. 3, 1939 by France and especially the UK prove that they wanted war.
@IustitiaPax This is complete slander! Hundreds of thousands Polish citizens, including Jews were killed by the Nazi, and we have un-debatable proof of that and you still dare to say they never exterminated the Polish people? Everything you say is completely unacceptable and fake. The declaration of war by France and the UK was because they were obligated to stand on the Polish side. What is ridiculous is that you have the nerve to deny historical proof which has been accepted by everyone.
@ClassicMusicOnly Polacy są najbardziej inteligentnym narodem ze wszystkich, z którymi spotkali się Niemcy podczas tej wojny w Europie... Polacy, według mojej opinii oraz na podstawie obserwacji i meldunków z Generalnej Guberni, są jedynym narodem w Europie, który łączy w sobie wysoką inteligencję z niesłychanym sprytem. Jest to najzdolniejszy naród w Europie, ponieważ żyją ciągle w niesłychanie trudnych warunkach politycznych,
@ClassicMusicOnly ... wyrobił w sobie wielki rozsądek życiowy, nigdzie niespotykany. Na podstawie ostatnich badań, prowadzonych przez Reichsrassenamt uczeni niemieccy doszli do przekonania, że Polacy powinni być asymilowani do społeczności niemieckiej jako element wartościowy rasowo. Uczeni nasi doszli do wniosku, że połączenie niemieckiej systematyczności z polotem Polaków dałoby doskonałe wyniki.
@ClassicMusicOnly Źródło: Tajny memoriał Hitlera do Himmlera 4 marca 1944. Przedruk – „Głos Wielkopolski” nr 330 z 1947. Hitler was an Austrian, he loved Piłsudski and he wanted an alliance with Poland. Hitler and the NSDAP never pursued any "extermination of the Polish people". Of course many Poles were killed by Gestapo, Sicherheitsdienst in anti-Armia-Krajowa warfare, in labour camps, in prison. I know. 2.2 million Poles died by Soviet and German causes. And UB, Bierut, Jakub Berman causes!
@ClassicMusicOnly You cannoy blame all Polish war victims on the Nazis. The Jews were persecuted and deported and died and executed in mass shootings. I know. But the Polish people suffered far less than the Germans or Lithuanians in percentage. Did the Soviets or Hitler want to exterminate all Germans or all Lithuanians? No. Theodor Kaufman and Henry J. Morgenthau Jr. wanted to exterminate millions of Germans though, from 1945 until 1960. 1947, the food came to aid West Germany.
@IustitiaPax You may have possibly not heard how Gobbels mentioned that "Poles are cattle in human form". Hitler hated Poland. He did not find Poles as intelligent people despite them being as such. He only believed in his master race and saw Poland as the Soviet Union to create more "living space" for his master race. The destruction of Warsaw proves Nazi hatred toward Poland. Before that - they by force moved thousands of Poles out of Warsaw and around to create space.
@ClassicMusicOnly Who is "Gobbels"? We had an Ulrich van Gobbel in our Dutch soccer team once. Goebbels at least never insulted Poles at all. Goebbels was behind the 1934 Polish-German Non-Aggression Pact. And the Rhinelander Goebbels, like Austrian Hitler, had no anti-Polish complexes like old Prussian nobility, Paul von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff. The destruction of Warsaw in October 1944 was intended to allow for total defence against the approaching Soviets. Never planned in 1940 or so!
@ClassicMusicOnly In 1934 Hitler promised, via Goebbels, that in 1939, a final agreement recognizing the new German-Polish (1919-1923 established) border in the east would be signed. Only 1935 death of Pilsudski (poisoning?), and Józef Beck and Rydz-Smigly prevented this in 1939. As for Lebensraum: it means merely German hegemony and communities like the Volga Germans of the 18th century. Did Catherine the Great of Russia "exterminate Ukrainians for Volga German Lebensraum"? No. Next myth.
@ClassicMusicOnly No Poles were moved out of Warsaw at all. And still in 1944, more Poles lived in Poznan than had lived in Poznan (Posen) in 1910. The Nazis moved Poles out of from Gdynia and some quarters of Lodz in order to settle Baltic German repatriants. Not from Warsaw.The Nazis in 1940 built new houses for Polish repatriants from Gdynia in Kraków. The Poles were not "exterminated", but resettled to the General Government. Some even to Poznan (Wielkopolska Deutsche Volksliste).
You cannot refute me. No Polish chauvinist has been able to. You can only deny, and repeat age-old Communist Polish and Chauvinist Polish myths, long refuted - often even by establishment historians. The 1939 forged (MI5 forgery) "quote" of Hitler calling for the "merciless killing of Poles" is the basis for all your assumptions. But it was forgery, propaganda. Why do you think Hitler, in 1944, gave millions of Reichsmark to widows of the Polish generals killed in Katyn 1940? To "exterminate"?
@ClassicMusicOnly I suggest you read what former 1934-1935 Prime Minister Prof. Leon Kozłowski (zm. w Berlinie, 1944) wrote in his columns after the Katyn find in 1943. He wrote in Germany and Polish press until his death in 1944 due to Allied bombing in Berlin. The Polish people were not "exterminated" because of forced labour and because of the bloody Gestapo and SD attacks against the (heroice) Armia Krajowa, NSZ and Soviet partisans. And UPA was not German.
@ClassicMusicOnly French people were not exterminated either, because of the Nazi and Milice and official French president Pétain's combat against Communist French résistance. Or do you think Hitler wanted to murder all French too? This is silly propaganda. It is sad, that so many Poles believe this nonsense still.
@ClassicMusicOnly Like many Soviet veterans (who have no qualms of conscience due to their raping German minor girls and killing Polish NSZ "reactionary bourgeois dwarfs" or AK) believe nonsense about "Hitler killing all Slavs". Nonsense. Hitler had Slovak, Croat, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Slovenian, Belarussian and White emigré Russian and many Cossack Slavic allies. Research the truth and read the Finnish book in translation.
@IustitiaPax I will not be reading any books that speak lies. You say I can't refute you, I can because you don't present any facts at all. You simply say - Hitler did this, Hitler did that and base your historical facts on books which completely lie and on newspapers that show a greater Poland. Your truth about Hitler loving everyone and not attempting to exterminate anyone is a complete myth - and once again Nazi propaganda. Nazi's mentioned everything that you do.
@ClassicMusicOnly A book that speaks lies, because it makes you see history in a new light, based on verified intelligence sources? You are obviously afraid that the Polish Myth of Polish Communists and Polish Chauvinists alike will crumble, about the " German guilt" and other themes. The book I mentioned is one of the most referenced. Hitler never could " exterminate" a whole people. Of course he ordered murders. Like of Ernst Röhm. It was a dictatorship. You refuse to read, silly!
@IustitiaPax Your a simple internet troll if you ask me. Soviet historians completely cover up and denounce accepted history because the Soviets and now the Russians do not want to admit that they are allied with the Nazi's during the war. Basing anything on Soviet historians or veterans is completely ignorant. I'm done with you. You have failed to point to ANY historical facts - your just echoing Nazi propaganda. Go troll somewhere else now - please. Nazi historians never get anywhere :)
@ClassicMusicOnly You are the one trolling. You refuse to read historical sources, books, references, even by totally unsuspected Finnish intelligence officers and historians who put the UK and France and their war guarantee to Poland of 1939 into another perspective. Well, about the 1941 Operation Barbarossa, Soviet and " Russian" historians also lie and manipulate today. They blame Finland for the 1939 Winter War. But historical sources refute them. And your Polish propaganda "historians"!
@Levasc Yes, Poland did as well. However, that does not cover up the fact that the Soviet Union quite literally allied with Nazi Germany to split Poland. Cheers!
@ClassicMusicOnly The UK and France gave Poland an assistance guarantee, because the war party in France (Léon Blum and Paul Reynaud) and in the United Kingdom (Anthony Eden and Winston Churchill) wanted militaristic Poland (very territorial since November 1938 Munich Agreement and Zaolzie, and the March 1939 threats against Lithuanian on Wilno recognition) to provoke Germany into a war, so they had a pretext to lead the UK and France into war with Germany. War strategy. Not Hitler.
@IustitiaPax I'm curious, do you have any cold hard facts that prove your theory? I have facts that prove mine - including direct sources like Hitler himself which you continually ignore or don't reply when I mention Mein Kempf and Hitler's hatred described in there. Another flaw in your theory - France and the UK didn't want to invade Germany. Germany was paying war reparations, and France nor the UK didn't want to loose that. This is why France and the UK support a German Silesia.
@ClassicMusicOnly Please provide original Mein Kampf quotes on Poland and the alleged "extermination" of the Polish people (now more than ever Poles live). Hitler only expressed admiration for Pilsudski in Mein Kampf. "A true leader of his people". After 1933 Germany never paid Versailles reparations anymore, so this was no reason anymore in 1939 for UK and France. And the Stresemann agreement reduced the payments already. You are confusing 1922 and 1939, silly. There are 17 years between!
@IustitiaPax Furthermore, if France and the UK wanted war so bad as you say - why did the Phoney War happen? Why didn't the French or the British directly react when Poland was invaded? They betrayed during WW2 and later in Yalta. Finally, of course I cannot blame all the polish victims on the Nazi's. The Soviet's had their share - however Nazi Germany defiantly gets the majority share. Your theory and facts are flawed, yet you continually argue repeating like a parrot what you said before.
@ClassicMusicOnly Read the book by the ethnic Swedish Finnish officer and historian. France and the UK did not invade Germany, as they did not want to risk war with the Soviet Union - which would invade Poland from the east on Sept. 17, 1939. If France and the UK had invaded from the West, a new dilemma would have arisen. And the long betrayal of the 'mere instrument' Poland to the USSR would have become evident. The answer is the same as the answer to why they did declare war against USSR.
@IustitiaPax Finally, basing your ideas upon one source which is a book or article which in particular has to do with the Soviet-Finish Wars seems completely laughable. Also I apologize for the grammatical mistakes in my two comments before - auto-correct has messed up my words.
@ClassicMusicOnly The book documents the French-English 1939 foreign diplomacy, and especially that of Churchill and Chamberlain until May 1940. Not only Scandinavia and the betrayal of Finland to the USSR by the UK, but also the planned British-French invasion of Norway in April 1940. Erkki Hautamäki also documents that Poland was driven into a war against Germany to provoke war against Germany, and give a war pretext to the UK and French governments. Hitler did not declare war against them!
@IustitiaPax Finland fought with the Nazi's which might explain why the UK did what it did. Once again, maybe you shall attempt and at least skim over Mein Kempf. Everything you mention as your historical "proof" is completely ridiculated when one reads the book. It was Hitlers plan to rule Europe. You act as if World War 2 was an complete accident. If it was, why did Hitler continue? Why would he later invade the Soviet Union? Why would he declare war on the United States?
@ClassicMusicOnly You silly. In October 1939 and 1940, Finland was all alone in its fight against the USSR during the Soviet-Finnish War (Winter War). Only after June 22, 1941 and the Continuation War was Finland allied militarily and in Antikomintern Pakt against the Soviet Union. Do you hate Finland? You never read the book at all, otherwise you would not have stated nonsense that Finland was allied with Nazi Germany in 1939-1940. I referred to it to explain British policy of betraying PL + FL
@ClassicMusicOnly Hitler made numerous offers from March 1939 until August 1939 to avoid armed confrontation. Even Bogumín (Bohumin, niem. Oderberg) was assigned to Poland in November 1938, although Germans formed the largest ethnicity there. Hitler wanted to pacify and convince Poland to take up a German-Polish Anti-Komintern alliance then. Hitler first looked for a peaceful solution for months, but Rydz-Smigly and Beck wanted a war against Germany. Now read Polish 1938-39 newspaper archives!
Hitler and a peaceful solution? Once again - World War 2 was no accident. I am not saying that Poland did not mobilize its army, or for that matter have its eyes on Silesia. Poland by far did not threaten Hitler with war. Your facts and history, is in fact Nazi propaganda and a lie which you have begun believing in. If Hitler was so peaceful, he wouldn't invade in the first place. Why saying that he wanted an alliance with "cattle in human form" is simply insulting for the Nazi's.
Did the UK promise Kresy to the USSR? I'm very much interested where you get your pseudo-facts from.
Now to end this once and for all - all your 'facts' and 'history' are completely washed away when one looks at ADOLF HITLER'S book. Mein Kampf, clearly states Hitler's intention to eliminate Poland, as well as the USSR and make these lands part of the Greater German Reich. Furthermore, Nazi's did not 'peacefully' move 700,000 Poles, they displaced over a million Polish citizens.
@IustitiaPax What you are, is nothing more than a neo-Nazi attempting to justify the German invasion and subsequent beginning of the second world war, which cannot be justified. You're provocations as you call it, aren't real facts, they are simply Nazi propaganda which you believe. Continuing, if Hitler didn't want to eliminate Poland, why did he invade it and then attempt to eliminate its people? More than one million Poles were displaced by the Nazi's in an attempt to clear the land.
@ClassicMusicOnly The genius is often called the idiot. You are blinded, like most indoctrinated brainwashed Poles. I am no fan of the Nazi dictator. Nor of Nazi ideology, nor of racialism, nor of Nazi paganism and occultism. But I know historical facts, like Field Marshall Mannerheim of Finland knew! Mannerheim's daughter was a nun and living in the cell next door to my aunt (also a Catholic nun). Hitler never attempted to eliminate the Polish people. Nonsense.
@ClassicMusicOnly The 2.2 to 2.5 million Polish victims were due to Armia Krajowa underground warfare against occupying Wehrmacht, 1939 Soviet and Nazi military campaigns, Soviet internment in "POW" Gulags from 1939-1941! You should study biography of Prof. Dr. Leon Kozlowski! Of course the Nazis committed harsh reprisals in occupied Poland. But far fewer Poles died than Germans (1939-1949: 19 million ethnic and Reich Germans & Austrians murdered or killed in action).
@ClassicMusicOnly One million Poles? Nonsense. About 700,000 Polish citizens settled after 1921 were peacefully resettled from Gdynia in 1940 to Kraków and Lodz. The Polish citizens who had lived in these regions prior to 1921 were able to sign the Deutsche Volksliste. And even in 1944, more Poles (non-Volksliste), 73 %, lived in Poznan than in 1910, 54 %. Poles were used as forced labourers. Yes. So were French and Dutch. No people was "exterminated by Hitler". That's propaganda.
@IustitiaPax Is Lebensraum something new to you? Or maybe the fact that Adolf Hitler himself promoted it? Hitler, as his Nazi's were the most Anti-Polish people in history of this world, while Hitler was as much of an anti-Catholic as he was Anti-Christian, he believed in cults. Finally, he considered himself German for his whole life until that bastard killed himself as he didn't have the honor to stand before the allies and admit he lost.
@ClassicMusicOnly You silly, you should not read so many Bierut and Gomulka-era propaganda and other lies. Lebensraum as a concept is very old. Hitler wanted Lebensraum for German farmers' colonies. Like the Volga Germans of the 18th century. Did the Volga Germans exterminate Russia or the Russians? Never so. Adolf Hitler was a Deist, religiously speaking, and a lapsed former Catholic. I know that the Nazis in occupied Poland imprisoned the Polish nationalists among the holy priesthood.
@ClassicMusicOnly Germany in 1939 was still very weak, never wanted a world war, never wanted a war with Poland in 1939 either, never wanted a war with France in 1939 or 1940 either. France and the UK declared war against Germany. Poland in March 1939 partially mobilized her Polish troops AGAINST the German border. This is also why on Sept. 17, 1939, the Soviets could easily march into the Kresy. You know nothing about Polish secret intelligence, Polish and Entente diplomacy and Hitler's offers!
@IustitiaPax When Red Army passed through III Reich is completely nothing to the "Golgothaof the East" that gave us the Reds with their friends from Germany. And now, Lithuanians, Russians, Czechs and Russians are beating people in Polish culture houses. Denationalization and destruction of tradition is the worst possible punishment. How many Poland must pay for the sacrifices made throughout the whole history. In the name of God, Honor, Fatherland, Demokration, Truth and Freedom?!
@Koza727 Germany did not betray you to the USSR in 1939 and in 1945. Anglo-Americans, Paul Reynaud, Edouard Daladier, Chamberlain, Churchill, Anthony Eden and Roosevelt etc. did that. And Charles de Gaulles too. I am not a friend of the Nazi discrimination of Poles, and of Nazi anti-partisan combat against Armia Krajowa and pro-AK Polish civilians. But do you know that 1.9 to 2.2 million ethnic German and Reich German citizens were killed in communist Poland from 1945 until 1949? Genocide!
@IustitiaPax Ok lustitia. I apologize first of all for that that I do not write long, but I'm in Japan. You can send me some books aboat those murdered Germans? I have never met this topic, the communist were murdered or deported thousands of Poles in RPL sine 1944. Completely disagree with the first part of your work. Red Army and Wehrmacht have a common parades and together they murdered Poles. It's even in the pictures and movies. As for the Allies, the full agreement (unfortunately).
@Koza727 From 1945-1949 1.9 to 2.2 million ethnic and Reich German civilians were killed. See Prof. Alfred de Zayas (Cuban American professor of law in Geneva, United Nations), 'A terrible revenge. The expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe'. I do respect Armia Krajow martyrs, but I do not respect communists Gomulka, Bierut and Bierut decrees, not Jakub Berman, not UB. And not Polish colonialism in historical Eastern Germany (Breslau, Stettin). Stettin is a German town like Berlin or Rostock.
@IustitiaPax Unfortunately the idiot with a mustache, idiot on a wheelchair and idiot with a cigar decided otherwise. The same should not be Belarus or such a big Ukraine (Lviv, Vilnius and other cities to Czechrynia is Polish) Pre-1772 borders should be restored.I discussed with the Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Rusyns, and they say that for the first RP (Res Publica-Public Thing, Our Thing), it was much better and we should created a federal state.
@Koza727 I do not think that UPA veterans, Stanislawów Ukrainian population, Tarnopol Ukrainian population, Sanok Ukrainian victims of Akcja Wisla (1947), Ukrainian victims of Pawlokoma Massacre by Armia Krajowa, and Belarussians want to refound a new parliamentarian RP. I think that Karol Habsbork could become a new king of a multi-ethnic 4. RP (monarchy!). Only a monarchy can overcome nationalistic and chauvinistic hatred. The Lithuanians I know would like to join up with Germany with Memel.
@IustitiaPax Ukrainians UPA killers murdered 200 thousand of Poles. Read about Volyn massacre. We also don't want the return of multi-kulti state. I'm Nationalist Mr. lustitia. Most of these examples given by you is propaganda of Ukrainian nationalists, so-called Banderists.
@Koza727 UPA indeed killed about 50,000 Polish civilians. The Armia Krajowa vs. UPA armed conflicts however was an ethnic Civil War in Volhynia and Galicia. And AK and even NSZ also committed massacres against unarmed Ukrainian and Lemko civilians. Pawlokoma Massacre and hundreds others. I know historical facts. You cannot explain the UPA uprising against Polish minority without 1919-1939 discrimination and persecution of Ukrainian politicians in interbellum Poland... Bereza Kartuzka?
@IustitiaPax Bereza Kartuska camp was planned for the politically uncomfortable.Ukrainians there were 4%. Dictatorship of Sanacja (sanatio) there interfered mainly nationalist Piłsudski(Sanacja) vs Dmowski (endecja- nationalists, same as I am, National Democrats). NSZ was created precisely for such young talented people. It must be added that our nationalists never took the fascist ideology. It was thanks to a strong relationship with the Church.
@Koza727 Still, I know Polish history. But despite the "strong relationship with the Church", Roman Dmowski and Endecja and other Polish chauvinists rejected the right to homeland and human life rights to ethnic Germans in Poland and the auto-determination of the majority of Upper Silesians in the Upper Silesian Plebiscite of 1921, which Poland lost. Extremist nationalism, even Dmowski nationalism, was condemned by Pope Pius XI in 'Mit brennender Sorge' and Humani Generis Unitas. Not only Nazis.
@IustitiaPax Dmowski was Nationalist.He opted for "Polish for Poles". Polish education (revange for kulturkampf and Germanization and Russification) one nation one Country. Piłsudski advocated a federal state and Dmowski other way. But endecja was so powerful (200 thousands of political active members) that Piłsudski had to resign. We didn't have extreme nationalism, endecja - National DEMOCRAT so parliamentarism. Facism and Nazism was left side movements. Endecja closer to liberalism.
@Koza727 Roman Dmowski was a chauvinist who denied the 800 year old ethnic German heritage inside Poland, and even promoted annexation of Silesia. Dmowski and especially his student Korfanty in 1919-1923 committed terrorism against German civilians. And even today, 95 % of the inhabitants of "ancient Polish' Sankt Annaberg (sl. Anaberg) identify as GERMANS, not as Poles. Piłsudski was sadly also quite intolerant towards ethnic Germans. Although ethnic Germans made Poland large.
@IustitiaPax Germany was behind the war and the destruction of Polish. So the receiving of Silesia and the whole east was a good pay. What do you think? What Germans would think if the Poles did the same in Germany huh? With everything we've done we will have to pay. Dmowski predicted WW II, he was a great leader, and only thanks to his reforms and blue Nationalist army in 1920, we were able to fight off the Red Army.
@Koza727 Germany never "destroyed" Poland. And if you think the genocide and expulsion against eastern Germans in Pomerania and in Silesia is a legitimate "revenge", then there is no discussion possible. Roman Dmowski was a chauvinist and Polish imperialist. Fortunately, David Lloyd George in 1919 at Versailles did not believe the lies of Dmowski on Silesia, as Lloyd George had visited Kattowitz, Oppeln and Breslau numerous times.
@IustitiaPax David Lloyd George thought that the is not that Galicia of which Poles fought. And Roman Dmowski was one of the most respected and admired figures in Versailles. Only thanks to Roman Dmowski, Sanacja never gained sufficient influence to enter agreement with Hitler. The young nationalists of the national movement majority die during the September campaign and guerrilla warfare. That's why we were not able to make decommunisation and throw off the stigma of communism, much earlier.
@Koza727 Roman Dmowski was not very respected at all, and certainly not by David Lloyd George. The 1830 and 1846 Polish uprisings were suppressed by the tsarist Russian Empire mostly, not very much by Prussia. And Germany? In 1846 and 1848 German national liberals all sympathized with the Polish national liberation battles against Prussia, Austrian Habsburgs and Russia. In the 1817 and 1848 Wartburg celebrations of German nationalist students, the Polish flag was carried! You never knew?
@IustitiaPax David Lloyd George was ignorant who does not even know where is Galicia. I will not mention his reputation on the British court.Germans during Pan-German congress have limited itself to stating that Poland must regain its independence. Deeds not words my friend. Yes, I know a lot about spring for the peoples.
@IustitiaPax We shouldn't discuss this topic, because such decisions in an era of globalization and EU would give us nothing. Nobody in Poland respects UB, KBW, PZPR ect. but III RP was designed by "Good friends Group" for former Generals like Jaruzelski (with brand new villa ;-), butchers from UB and Militiamans. Sad but true. My grandfather served in the NSZ (National Armed Forces- Polish Nationalistic Armed organizaion 1939-1960) He died in prison after 13 years of incarceration.
@Koza727 You should read the writings and last actions of Prof. Dr. Leon Kozlowski after the Katyn Massacre. I respect the NSZ fighters. I am from Holland. My grandparents still flag a Polish flag in honour of Gen. Maczek and Gen. Wladyslaw Anders (Anders was also a Baltic GERMAN originally, but after 1919 Katolik = Polak).
@IustitiaPax Yeap that's true Anders was ethnically German. I was in Holland with the veterans, local people care about the historical memory. In Poland, the called NSZ fighters the "fascists" and "traitors".
@Koza727 Who calls NSZ fighters "fascists and traitors"? Zygmunt Berling? Kwasniewski? I think they were just as good as any other Armia Krajowa units. It was a resistance. And criminals exist in every group. Even in the knightly and disciplined German Wehrmacht, the army which is despite anti-German propaganda still the most respected army of the world history. (Ask your Lithuanian neighbours or Latvians.) Again, we in Holland cherish our Poles. My great aunt married a Polish soldier in Breda!
@IustitiaPax There's a newspaper called the "Gazeta Wyborcza". Editor is the son of a former Communist and the brother of a man whose people still remembered as one of the largest Stalinist butchers, judges, the brother fled to Sweden where he is hiding from justice. Michnik familly. After 89 there was no lustration, nor the courts for the Communists, Walesa received them with open arms to their government. Communist propaganda and staff continue to exist in the III RP. That's VERY sad but true.
@Koza727 I know the family of German Upper Silesian victims from Alt Schalkowitz (Siolkowice Stary) near Oppeln (Opole) who were killed by Mr Salomon Morel of the UB. They filed a lawsuit against Morel, but neither Israel nor Poland extradited him at the right time. The husband of my great aunt is from Zakopane, and was in the Polish Guards in West Germany. He was in Anders Army, but his brother was also in Polish Guards, but from NSZ unit who went to Holleischen (with a camp) in Bohemia.
@IustitiaPax Very intrsting story. There was a comedy about the stupidity and cruelty of Peoples Poland. Colonel Kwiatkowski, Pułkownik Kwiatkowski in parts on YT. Film based on the true story of a military doctor who dressed up for UB officer and help peoples. Freeing them from "Moczar " prison, ect. (btw. Father of Michnik work with "Moczar"). Salomon Morel? I remember this name. Served in the GL and AL, he drove to villages for anti-kulak actions (robbery and rapes).
@IustitiaPax Polish nobility was highly appreciated throughout Europe, the King of Bulgaria was a Pole, Radzivills were called by German Emperors their biggest allies. Czartoryscy conquered salons of Paris and the heart of Bourbon ect What does not change the fact that these were the families that contributed to the downfall of IRP. Condemned by the national liberation uprisings an everlasting infamy, and the deprivation of property and the death penalty.
@IustitiaPax AK, NSZ, BCh, and others fought with the UPA because it was particularly brutal group. Small children were skinned and thrown into the nests. I'll save you from horror scenes. Our first cosmonaut was rescued by a Wehrmacht officer who pulled him from a burning house. In the logbooks of River Fleet de KriegsMarine you will see horror that officers who report the whole horizon is in flames. The Ukrainians were using incendiary bullets (axes, hammers and chains too)
@Koza727 Yes, I know what the UPA did to ethnic Polish population in Podkamień etc. etc. But the AK also took revenge, even Polish Schutzpolizei armed by Wehrmacht defended and attacked Ukrainian villages. It was an Ethnic Civil War, just like the Bosnian Serb-Croat War in 1992-1995 in Slavonia and Bosnia. With massacres on both sides. I know that anti-Polish, anti-Slovak, anti-Soviet, anti-Nazi, anti-Muscovy UPA wanted to create a hegemonous ethnic Ukraine. Like Gomulka in 1945-48 did!
@IustitiaPax Break through the lies and propaganda requires impartiality. It is a pity that so few researchers did it. However, you must know the facts:
Schutzpolzei operate only in Silesia.
Volyn AK and NSZ Brigade in the reports didn't write about attacks on villages, and they have to send the exact rapot every week. As they took the survivors of the mascara they withdrawn as it was planned in Operation "Storm" (support red army, and ensuring the independence of poland- only AK)
@Koza727 The Armia Krajowa and NSZ in Volyn, Halych and other regions (even Polesie) committed attacks against ethnic non-Polish villages (UPA, but also Weißrussische Schutzpolizei Belarussian pro-German volunteer villages). AK was not innocent either. It was a World War. But also many minor ethnic civil war conflicts. And ideological conflicts. See the Greek Civil War from 1946-1948.
@IustitiaPax Even if we chasing out some foreign population in several villages that it is nothing to what these murderers and non-humans from the UPA did in Wołyń. If a unit of Polish underground state committed such crime, at one whole unit was convicted by war-court. Professional investigation was organized.
@Koza727 "Foreign population" in "several villages"? "We"? Are you proud of AK, NSZ and other Polish massacres against thousands of ethnic Ukrainian and ethnic Lemko civilians? These ethnic Lemko and ethnic Ukrainian populations were not "foreign", but they were NATIVES of Red Ruthenia. You live in an illusion, in which Poles are "saints" despite all their war crimes, and in which every opponent of Poles is a "subhuman". Typical chauvinist stereotypes WITHOUT any Catholic or Christian sense!
@IustitiaPax Thousands? rather, tens of. How did you get such a bullshit. Unfortunately for Poles, they always respect the rights of other nations. Germany didn't have such problem, and they can conquer europe with milions of losses. I'm using rhetoric of nationalist. So I am proud to be a chauvinist, because it's a natural reaction to foreign violence. Maybe if we applied Prussian iron law then we would not have so many killed. Following your line of thinking, of course.
@Koza727 I am glad you admit that AK and NSZ killed 10,000s of innocent ethnic Ukrainian and ethnic Lemko civilians in revenge and terror actions in 1943-1945/1946, then the Communist Polish Army did this in 1947 Action Wisla. While I understand that you use the style and the the 'argumentation' of a chauvinist-nationalist, but this is not the proper attitude if we want to discover historical truth and objective facts together. Science is unbiased, in ideal circumstances. History is manipulated.
@IustitiaPax lol how many? And that is what I call the manipulation of history. Please enter the source, the Polish nationalists were the best sons of this land. Tortured by the UB, they brought them to depression by their peace of mind and contempt for the executioners. According to German sources Ukrainians in Volhynia had killed about 220 thousand Poles. During the Galician massacre Austrians paid from each cut off head of Polish landowner. Two thousand noblemans have died.
@random777hero Yeap so i highly recommend history of Michał Drzymała for lustitiaPax. And dude are you associate the "Prussian expulsions" or in Polish "rugi pruskie"?
@random777hero I know the story of Michał Drzymała. In 1910 before a Prussian court, he won the case and was allowed to build a house. The law of Prussian Settlement Commission was repealed. Polish citizens of Germany could vote, sit in Reichstag (like Roman Dmowski did, although in 1919 he attacked German Upper Silesia and even pro-German Masuria!), and had peace and income. Know Ruhr Poles? Mikolajczyk was born in Dorsten. Prussia was peaceful, hierarchical but a legal state.
BYLEM W KOMPANII REPREZENTACYJNEJ I KILKA RAZY MASZEROWALEM W TAKT WARSZAWIANKI TROCHE INNEJ WERSJUI ALE TA PIESN W KAZDEJ WERSJI POPDRYWA NOGI DO GORY W MARSZU
Watach 1920-tych była duża dyskusja czy hymnem narodowym ma być Warszawianka, czy Mazurek Dąbrowskiego. Oczywiście hymnem został Mazurek, a Warszawianka marszem defiladowym Wojska Polskiego. Osobiście uważam że Warszawianka jest piękniejsza, ale podobno Marszałek osobiście zdecydował że Mazurek ma być hymnem. Jedno wiem. Za komuny byłem w wojsku. Warszawianka zawsze ściskała serce.
Nie ma to jak Alma Mater.....Zmech
MrTomeks27 2 weeks ago
Better dead with honour like be red. Only Poland Forever!
qwertue 1 month ago
@qwertue Tak jest:- Polonia Dominat et Omnia Vincit!
LuluPolska1 1 month ago
@qwertue Amen, my Brother. Honor i ojczyzna!
skrivbok 5 days ago
Comment removed
qwertue 1 month ago
hmz wer will mit mia schreiben
KendraLenoreiq632 1 month ago
"Oby dniem zwycięstwa był..."
kilhoman27 2 months ago
warszawianka njpiekniejszy utwor dla ucha zolnierza.... mowi o wszystkim co najwazniejsze dla patrioty. pozdrawiam wszystkich mundurowych.... 1 kolobrzeski batalion zmechanizowany
ccapsell 2 months ago
Świetne wykonanie, tylko te kotły nie pasują do wojskowego marsza...
mrwicio35 2 months ago
@mrwicio35 co ty rozmawiasz?pierwszym podstawowym instrumentem muzycznym w wojsku była trąba i bęben lub werbel bądź kocioł służący do wybijania rytmu maszerującej piechocie juz nie wspominając o tarabanach z naszego hymnu.wiesz li co zacz taraban ???
jak wojsko znasz z jutuba to radzę sie doszkolić pozdrawiam
mickey0004w 2 months ago
@mickey0004w nie znam "wojska z jutuba", znam za to Orkiestrę Reprezentacyjną Sił Powietrznych Z Poznania, w której grałem kilka lat pierwszą tubę i na żadnym koncercie nie prezentowaliśmy kotłów bo swoim niskim brzmieniem zagłuszały basy i resztę perkusji... A o tarabanach w armii to widać sam musisz się doszkolić, zamiast używać niezrozumiałych przez siebie cytatów...
mrwicio35 2 months ago
How pleasant it is to enjoy music without the burden of philosophical considerations. BRAVO from the USA.
FlierFrank172 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ClassicMusicOnly Shut up you fucking Nazi
artix96100 5 months ago
that’s 1910...Poland would finally regain its independence 9 years later.... 124 years of deportations, inability to build, prosper...experience the industrial revolution as a unique culture? I think you‘re smart enough to realize the consequences of being in bondage through such a crucial period of western cultural development. Your example comes too little too late.
Strage through how Poland was tolerant to Royal Prussia, no?
Respect goes two ways...
random777hero 7 months ago
Vivat Polonia!
Polonia Dominat et Omnia Vincit!
LuluPolska1 9 months ago
@LuluPolska1 Austriae est imperare orbi universo! AEIOU!
IustitiaPax 8 months ago
@IustitiaPax Jestem Polak, Wiedzie Moje Kolory!
(Ich bein ein Polnischer, kennen meine Farben!)
LuluPolska1 8 months ago
@IustitiaPax Yes dear, perhaps it was so once upon a time but not anymore.
I look at the map and I do not see the Austrian Empire but Poland is still there.
Poland prevails and overcomes all and every May 3 we Poles celebrate this fact
by dancing on the graves of the old empires which oppressed us so much.
LuluPolska1 7 months ago
@LuluPolska1 Nobody oppressed you 'very much'. In fact the Austrian Empire made Polish culture flourish like it had never done before 1776! This is a fact. And Prussian rule was not very oppressive. If we talk about oppression, let's mention the oppression and persecution of innocent ethnic Germans in 1919-1939, or the Expulsion (genocide!) from 1945 to 1948 against eastern Germans and ethnic Germans by the Polish state and the Polish mob.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Lol dude, You know how many Poles were killed in the years 1793 - 1918? 8 fucking millions. "Light occupation"? Kulturkampf, the Austrian police and the deportation huh. And what about the kidnapping Polish children by Prussian and Austrian families. Don't mention here about the Russkies because it was a Asian hell. Poor Germans, they killed 40 million people and now they're upset cause some of them go to the west. 5 millions Poles were also deported to the west. The Ruskies did it
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 8 million Poles "killed" from 1793 - 1918? You mean in Napoleonic Wars as Napoléontists or in 1830 Polish Uprising and by the tsars? Hardly 8 million. Many Poles emigrated to the United States and France, they were not "killed", but they left. Kulturkampf killed not one single person. The Austrian Empire was véry tolerant towards Poles indeed - and this always. And entire Cieszyn Silesia loves Franz Joseph I and Karol I. Germans killed 40 million? Maybe two billion in Polish "history"?
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Wy had many Uprisings, and Tzarist Russia were VERY brutal. German population today is +/- 80 mln. Poland= 40 mln + 25 mln Polonia("Foreign Poles"). That's called Great imigration. It was caused by repressions in the three occupation zones. Kulturkampf was Very brutal too like "Russification" in Congress Kingdom. Austrian occupation zone was the mildest, but there was also a lot of mass murder (as in Galicia)I was once on German history lesson, and that was "History"
Koza727 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Next thing. I was talking aboat WWII and all victims of combined. I During WWII were killed 6 million Poles, which is documented. If i even thinking that the number of murdered Jews is to inflate that the number of killed Poles don't even discuss Erika Steinbach. Meeen And where is the point of our discussion.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 As Narodn. Demokr. member you are a Polish nationalist, so you imply that you deny or revise the alleged statistic of 2.8 to 3 million Polish Jews being killed. But to you the "3 million ethnic Poles" number is a rigid number? I think the number of emigrants, Soviet-deported Poles (not victims of the Nazi occupation and Armia Krajowa vs. German Wehrmacht partisan fights) and missing refugees or Belarussified Poles is high, and the true number around 1.9 to 2.2 million ethnic Polish.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@Koza727 I am an independent man, and I am no member in the League of Expellees of Mrs. Dr. Erika Steinbach-Herrmann. Steinbach is a very cultured, skilled politician who pleads for the rights of the German expellees as a CDU member and League president. She is demonized by Polish anti-German propaganda. But historical truth is historical truth. And it will appear and be victorious. Even if working slowly. Also, I highly like Poles. I am from Holland, not Germany. I am pro-PL and pro-German.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax The truth is that Erika forgot what price you must pay for two world wars. Do you think that I like current borders? Hell No! Once Poland was a power, from the Baltic to the Black Sea. Our king had his regents on thrones of Sweden, Courland, Hungary, the Czech kingdom and the Tsarat. In the past our borderlands were at Kursk and far behind Moscow. How we lost it is another story. During WWII we lost the most. I didn't get a single coin of war reparations. Tfu!
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 But Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth borderlands were NEVER ethnic Polish inhabited. But Breslau, Stettin, Danzig, Allenstein, Landsberg an der Warthe, Neisse O.S., Bunzlau, Königsberg and Kolberg were 100 % German-populated.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Aaaa i see your post about Nations in I RP. I'll send u a film With Fire and sword with english subtitles. Poles Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Rusyns died for this Country. Why? "Golden rights", no persecution (Parliament lined up taxes, the King was elective and had no real power. It is fall of the nobility and their fight for "gold rights", there was no discipline and no army, full liberalism. Well, the empress Catherine, Frederick the Great and Austrian Emperors saw it...
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 This is no discussion on I RP. Most soldiers who died for 1st RP (Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in worldwide historical terminology) however were ethnic Germans of Poland, not merely Bambrzy, but especially the Germans of Royal Prussia (see niem. Eidechsenbund). The ethnic Germans of Ermland defended the Polish Crown's property against the Teutonic Order. And inside the Teutonic Order were fighting archaic Polish-speaking Masurians against Polish kings.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Order came to Poland in times of duke Konrad Mazowiecki. At that time Poland was divided into principalities "thanks" to the last will of Boleslaw Krzywousty. Germans flee o Poland from Prussia in serch of Golden Freedom, Prussia was a military country, and nobody wanted to serve in military (15 years, in Russia 25 years) Poland was a multinational, but was able to reconcile the needs of all social groups. Even Khmelnitsky posted in the official letters that "The RP is a mother."
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Prussia had nobody who wanted to serve in military? Many wanted to serve in it. Prussian Army was the most respected army of the world. Unlike the Polish and tsarist Russian armies. I know that Chmielnicki was initially a loyal son of the Polish Crown. So were the Germans of Danzig. But still in 1793 AD Danzig (independent since 1776 AD) asked to be allowed to join the Kingdom of Prussia.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax The Prussian army was respected and able to mobilize 2 million people, but the discipline and brutality in it gained a mythical dimension. Khmelnytsky, was a Ukrainian and cared about the fate of the Ukrainians. The revolt caused a personal matter, a nobleman .... but you have already watched it. This is a very complicated matter because the country had no money to mobilize all the Ukrainians, and so imposed the restriction (Rejestr, Rejestr- Cossacks).And Cossacks wanted to fight.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 The Prussian Army never had a reputation for "brutality" at all. What are you talking about? This is a Myth. Indeed. A myth from Polish early falsification of history. Even Radziwill were in the Prussian Army! The Chmielnicki Uprising was an uprising against the Latin Poles and against their bankers and servants, the Jews of Poland.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Khmelnytsky uprising was directed against the family Vishnyevetskis. After many wars senators gave no special rights to the Cossacks and the situation with the registry. Khmelnytsky stole Kings letters encouraged resistance against the nobility.As I said it's a very complicated situation. It just so happens that I am in possession of "letters of Mr. Veit Narwoj." This gentleman was drafted into the army of Frederick the Great by force. And describe all the facts.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 The Prussian Army of Frederick the Great was militaristic, but not brutal and not criminal. It was an organized army of a Secular King of Prussia. That is all. Yes, Prussia partitioned Poland with Russia and Austria. But like Austria, the Prussian king allowed Polish nobility and created the Grand Duchy of Poznan himself. And Austrians were very pro-Polish. Under Austria, Lwów became a truly Polish majority city. Before 1776, Lwów had been a 30 %-30%-40% mixture of Jews, Ruthenians, PL
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax The Austrians had a debt to pay off as once said Kaiser. What does not change the fact that it still was occupation the least bloody occupation but occupation (slaughter in Galicia, ). Duchy of Poznan was a marionette, and after kulturkampf incorporated into the Germany.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Kulturkampf was not in 1846, but 1871-1886. The Grand Duchy of Posen was dissolved in 1846 due to the 1830 and 1846 Polish National Uprisings. As for Austrian Partition: there was no 'slaughter' in Galicia. You mean the suppression of uprising? The Polish persecution of ethnic Germans was more violent than peaceful, school-politics of Kulturkampf. Drzymała in the end won before German court! Prussia was a legal, peaceful state. Michał comes from Hebrew: Michaël - Quis ut Deus. Not PL!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Kulturkampf lasted throughout the whole occupation in a greater or lesser extent. For Bismarck, this process was particularly brutal. I mean slaughter in 1846. See "Rzeź galicyjska" by Jan Lewicki. Name Michael appeared before Christianity came. Misha-Bear, Michał in Polish. Prussia was the iron state law, Fair only for the Germans. Hundreds of thousands Polish Families experienced this.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Kulturkampf lasted from 1871 to 1889. Not longer, no less. And it was an anti-Catholic policy, not merely or per se anti-Polish. The "slaughter" you speak about were military Polish uprisings suppressed by the hegemonious powers. If you rise up militarily, you can be shot or defeated. This is not "slaughter" of unarmed. If you believe that Michaël is "Polish name" and Prussia was "fair only for Germans" you make up your own Polish chauvinist lies. It is primitive. Too much for me.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax You call my words lies Pax, but put yourself in my situation. For me, it's your words are fabricated. Kulturkampf as the definition of such a policy of Bismarck, but the fight with Polish culture began immediately after the loss of independence. Poles were unstable and not material to assimilate. Austrian officers were paying high for head of Polish Galician landowner during Galician massacre, Germany openly supported Russia in the fight against national liberation uprisings.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 In 1830 and 1846, no unified Germany existed, and the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation had gone down in 1806. Prussia in 1870 founded the (second) German Empire, but in 1846 Prussia never represented Germany. I know little about the 'Galician massacre' you refer too. It must be another nationalist Polish myth or a small incident boomed up into a huge thing, like Michal Drzymala's wagon was (and falsified thrice with a phoney wagon). Prussia was hierarchical, not a tyranny.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax III Reich or the Soviet union were also hierarchical, but what about it when the country is militarized, and absolute. Poland, even in times of dictatorship of Sanacja wasn't military state . Poland is a country of individualists and free mens, you can't force free Pole to do anything when he see a whip or a stick. He will revolt and even die, but he will never kneel.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 David Lloyd George travelled Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire as a student. I still have no reference or source for the "Galician massacre" of "2,000 Polish noblemen". Seems a laughable myth to me, as I know Habsburg very well. Your romanticism about Polish "freedom for all men" did not count when enslaving Germans after 1945, expropriating between 1919-1939. And the Polish individualism also produced chaos and disorder before 1776 AD already.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Have you ever been in Poland?
Speak to people who survived the genocide in Volhynia.
My aunt is still alive.She's happy to tell you about raped and murdered children,tortured men,massacred human bodies.It will be nice to realize one more ignorant and pseudo-historian.
Dowgird77 7 months ago
@Dowgird77 You think I deny the massacres of Polish civilians by UPA in Volhynia? I do not. I just reply, that the Armia Krajowa and NSZ in Sanok and Galicia also committed 'revenge massacres' against ethnic Lemko and against ethnic Ukrainian populations. I know ks. Isakowicz-Zaleski from a speech he gave before us. Many people were victims. Not only Poles. And I was writing about the Polish massacres in Upper Silesia in 1920-1922 against Silesian civilians in St. Annaberg etc.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Poles fought on many fronts of the Second World War.They fought for your country(gen.Stanisław Sosabowski and 1 SBS -1067 polish soldiers - Operation "Market Garden" battle of Arnhem.)
Do at least one Dutchman gave his life for my country?
Dowgird77 7 months ago
@Dowgird77 Pourquoi mourir pour Danzig? Why should Dutchmen or French soldiers die for the March to September 1939 Polish war provocations and Polish Józef Beck-Rydz-Smigly-Moscicki-inspired war threats and the Polish partial mobilization? We always commemorate the Polish Forces of the West. An aunt of mine married a Polish veteran of the Battle of Breda (October 1944), Wisniewski from Kraków. Poland in 1945 was victim of false hopes of the war and exile government in pro-Communist Roosevelt.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax
Next you'll mention that the second world war was Poland's fault, correct?
ClassicMusicOnly 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Not the entire Second World War, but the 1939 Polish War with the German Empire and the Soviet Union was. That is, the war with Germany was provoked. The Soviets merely profited from the weakening of the Polish western front on Sept. 17, 1939. Diplomatic facts from March 1939 until August 31, 1939 (or August 23, 1939) speak for themselves. Hitler made numerous compromises. But the German dictator also bears responsibility though. But the outbreak of war was not Germany's fault!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax That's complete rubbish. Poland did not provoke a war, Hitler had plans on invading Poland. What speaks for itself is the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. It is completely ignorant to attempt to say that Germany didn't want war, or that it attacked Poland because it felt threatened. That's Nazi propaganda and rubbish - and you have begun to believe its lie. Hitler had plans to create a German Empire which would rule Europe, World War 2 was no accident but Nazi plans which failed.
ClassicMusicOnly 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact did not exist in March 1939. It was a August 23, 1939 last resort attempt by German diplomacy, in order to prevent a crushing of Germany from two sides or three sides. Poland in April 1939 with the UK and Maxim Litvinov (Soviet minister of foreign affairs) discussed an alliance against Germany and Italy (and against other states). PL refused Soviet military bases inside Poland, and PL did not want to allow attacks against Slovakia.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax
You still speak lies. I'm not saying that Poland did not attempt to make a coalition to destroy Germany, or the Soviet Union for that matter - but the pact with France and the United Kingdom were made to protect Poland from Germany. Its completely idiotic to say that Germany was very weak or state that they didn't want war. If they didn't want war they would not invade Poland or outline in the Ribbentrop-Molotov plan what Europe's borders would be after a series of wars.
ClassicMusicOnly 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly No, the Entente pact of Poland (with UK and France) was a pact of military assistance, and Polish provocations were meant to be a pretext for a full-scale invasion. But the Polish colonels' regime did not realize, that French did not want to die for 100 % ethnic German city of Danzig, and that the UK had already secretly promised Kresy in 1938-39 to the USSR and awaited a Soviet-Nazi onslaught against Poland. Poland was aggressive, but duped by far-away "allies" in 1939!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Poland joined up with France and UK against Germany, which stood alone back then (Italy never declared war against Poland in 1939). And the fear for encirclement by heavily mechanized French Army and a Polish Army made Germany even close an alliance with her worst enemy, the Soviet Union. It is not Nazi propaganda, but it is the harsh facts. Read Polish newspapers from January 1939 until August 1939 and read the threats against Germany and ethnic Germans of Poland!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax
Germany didn't stand completely alone before the outbreak of World War 2, they signed a military alliance with Italy on May 22, 1939. To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying that Poland was without fault completely, however you cannot say it was Poland's fault for Germany attacking it on September 1. Hitler had plans of eliminating Poland as well as quite frankly all of Europe for his master German race, and saying that Hitler had no plans of invasion is simply Nazi justification.
ClassicMusicOnly 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Complete nonsense, like all Polish propaganda and brainwashing in Polish schools. Germany indeed attacked on Sept. 1, 1939, but this was due to numerous Polish border violations from Marhc 1939 until Aug 31, 1939. Hitler never had any plans to eliminate Poland, and Hitler wanted Poland to become an ally of Germany instead. Hitler loved Pilsudski. Hitler was an Austrian, not a Prussian landlord or anti-Catholic anti-Pole like Ludendorff was!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Polish propaganda? You are the one, sir, that is brainwashed and this is by Nazi propaganda. Believing in things like Operation Himmler which were an attempt to justify German invasion on Poland is completely ignorant and simply stupid. If Hitler "loved Pilsudski" and at least liked Poland he would have not killed over 2 million Polish citizens, divide Poland between the Soviet Union and his Germany nor attack it in the first place - he would look for a peaceful solution.
ClassicMusicOnly 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact was a last-resort surprise compromise on August 23, 1939, something Hitler never liked to do personally (some Prussian landlords did, they hated Polish anti-German chauvinism more than they feared the strong USSR). Germany in 1939 was very weakly mechanized, had a weak army, only a relatively strong air force (nothing more). The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was made after months of Polish war threats against Germany since Nov. 1938 (annexation Zaolzie!)
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax You are anything but a Genies. Calling you an idiot is the lightest of forms a respectful man could. Your Nazi justification, as well as using Nazi Propaganda as so called facts shows how brainwashed, you yourself are. True history, shows the correct facts as we know it. Of course, different events are omitted like the fact that peaceful little Poland was attacked by great big German, however stating that Poland itself wanted to be invaded is complete slander!
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Of course Poland did not want to be invaded. I never said this. Polish newspapers (HAVE YOU RESEARCHED NEWSPAPER ARCHIVES BY NOW?) all proclaimed new maps in May 1939, showing annexed cities like Stettin and even Stralsund and Wolgast in Polish borders. And Poland thought on Sept. 1, 1939, that France would attack and that Poland would stand in Berlin within two weeks. Poland was never 'peaceful'. That is a myth. Churchill called Poland a "hyena" - Zaolzie, Nov. 1938!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly I am open-minded and base my conviction on history upon diplomatic documents. Not on forgeries, Allied propaganda, Polish propaganda or the Soviet post-1945 falsification of history. Why do you think the British secret services do not disclose their archives on 1930s and 1940s as early as 2016? They postponed it. Diplomatic contacts, treaties, all prove the war goals. Please read: Finland i stormens öga, 2004 by Erkki Hautamäki, Finnish officer and historian!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax I'm family with maps showing a larger Poland, therefore I don't need to reach the newspaper archives. However, simple maps do not prove anything. This is not Polish or Allied propaganda, its true historical facts. You base your facts on Nazi propaganda which said something quite similar to what you are saying - that solely Polish border violations and so called Polish threats of war caused the outbreak of World War 2. You theory is not completely without support.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly You should research news archives from 1938 and 1939 and you will see what the Polish foreign policy and propaganda were about. I base none of my conclusions on Nazi propaganda at all. This is ridiculous. I base myself upon a variety of sources, all post-war historians, and contemporary documents. I also researched by myself the 1939 evaluations of diplomacy in the Dutch newspapers, which were indeed still quite neutral back then. Polish Army mobilized as early as March 1939!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax However, it lacks many things. For instance, if Hitler was so friendly to the Polish people, why did he exterminate them and displace them? You even find an explanation for that which is completely without facts. Furthermore, the theory that the Polish allies abandoned Poland is also quite strange. They didn't fight directly for some time, however they did declare war. However, I am curious how you are so sure of your theory if you yourself said that English archives are postponed?
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Hitler never "exterminated" the Polish people and the official Nazi policy was only the resettlement of post-1919 Polish immigrants from Gdynia and Woiew. Poznan to General Government. Only in Zamosc, the SS and RSHA tried to displace Poles. You cannot blame UPA terror upon the Nazis. Research yourself about the SIS (MI5 and MI6) archives on 1930-1950 and diplomatic sources. The declaration of war of Sept. 3, 1939 by France and especially the UK prove that they wanted war.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax This is complete slander! Hundreds of thousands Polish citizens, including Jews were killed by the Nazi, and we have un-debatable proof of that and you still dare to say they never exterminated the Polish people? Everything you say is completely unacceptable and fake. The declaration of war by France and the UK was because they were obligated to stand on the Polish side. What is ridiculous is that you have the nerve to deny historical proof which has been accepted by everyone.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Polacy są najbardziej inteligentnym narodem ze wszystkich, z którymi spotkali się Niemcy podczas tej wojny w Europie... Polacy, według mojej opinii oraz na podstawie obserwacji i meldunków z Generalnej Guberni, są jedynym narodem w Europie, który łączy w sobie wysoką inteligencję z niesłychanym sprytem. Jest to najzdolniejszy naród w Europie, ponieważ żyją ciągle w niesłychanie trudnych warunkach politycznych,
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly ... wyrobił w sobie wielki rozsądek życiowy, nigdzie niespotykany. Na podstawie ostatnich badań, prowadzonych przez Reichsrassenamt uczeni niemieccy doszli do przekonania, że Polacy powinni być asymilowani do społeczności niemieckiej jako element wartościowy rasowo. Uczeni nasi doszli do wniosku, że połączenie niemieckiej systematyczności z polotem Polaków dałoby doskonałe wyniki.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Źródło: Tajny memoriał Hitlera do Himmlera 4 marca 1944. Przedruk – „Głos Wielkopolski” nr 330 z 1947. Hitler was an Austrian, he loved Piłsudski and he wanted an alliance with Poland. Hitler and the NSDAP never pursued any "extermination of the Polish people". Of course many Poles were killed by Gestapo, Sicherheitsdienst in anti-Armia-Krajowa warfare, in labour camps, in prison. I know. 2.2 million Poles died by Soviet and German causes. And UB, Bierut, Jakub Berman causes!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly You cannoy blame all Polish war victims on the Nazis. The Jews were persecuted and deported and died and executed in mass shootings. I know. But the Polish people suffered far less than the Germans or Lithuanians in percentage. Did the Soviets or Hitler want to exterminate all Germans or all Lithuanians? No. Theodor Kaufman and Henry J. Morgenthau Jr. wanted to exterminate millions of Germans though, from 1945 until 1960. 1947, the food came to aid West Germany.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax You may have possibly not heard how Gobbels mentioned that "Poles are cattle in human form". Hitler hated Poland. He did not find Poles as intelligent people despite them being as such. He only believed in his master race and saw Poland as the Soviet Union to create more "living space" for his master race. The destruction of Warsaw proves Nazi hatred toward Poland. Before that - they by force moved thousands of Poles out of Warsaw and around to create space.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Who is "Gobbels"? We had an Ulrich van Gobbel in our Dutch soccer team once. Goebbels at least never insulted Poles at all. Goebbels was behind the 1934 Polish-German Non-Aggression Pact. And the Rhinelander Goebbels, like Austrian Hitler, had no anti-Polish complexes like old Prussian nobility, Paul von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff. The destruction of Warsaw in October 1944 was intended to allow for total defence against the approaching Soviets. Never planned in 1940 or so!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly In 1934 Hitler promised, via Goebbels, that in 1939, a final agreement recognizing the new German-Polish (1919-1923 established) border in the east would be signed. Only 1935 death of Pilsudski (poisoning?), and Józef Beck and Rydz-Smigly prevented this in 1939. As for Lebensraum: it means merely German hegemony and communities like the Volga Germans of the 18th century. Did Catherine the Great of Russia "exterminate Ukrainians for Volga German Lebensraum"? No. Next myth.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly No Poles were moved out of Warsaw at all. And still in 1944, more Poles lived in Poznan than had lived in Poznan (Posen) in 1910. The Nazis moved Poles out of from Gdynia and some quarters of Lodz in order to settle Baltic German repatriants. Not from Warsaw.The Nazis in 1940 built new houses for Polish repatriants from Gdynia in Kraków. The Poles were not "exterminated", but resettled to the General Government. Some even to Poznan (Wielkopolska Deutsche Volksliste).
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
You cannot refute me. No Polish chauvinist has been able to. You can only deny, and repeat age-old Communist Polish and Chauvinist Polish myths, long refuted - often even by establishment historians. The 1939 forged (MI5 forgery) "quote" of Hitler calling for the "merciless killing of Poles" is the basis for all your assumptions. But it was forgery, propaganda. Why do you think Hitler, in 1944, gave millions of Reichsmark to widows of the Polish generals killed in Katyn 1940? To "exterminate"?
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly I suggest you read what former 1934-1935 Prime Minister Prof. Leon Kozłowski (zm. w Berlinie, 1944) wrote in his columns after the Katyn find in 1943. He wrote in Germany and Polish press until his death in 1944 due to Allied bombing in Berlin. The Polish people were not "exterminated" because of forced labour and because of the bloody Gestapo and SD attacks against the (heroice) Armia Krajowa, NSZ and Soviet partisans. And UPA was not German.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly French people were not exterminated either, because of the Nazi and Milice and official French president Pétain's combat against Communist French résistance. Or do you think Hitler wanted to murder all French too? This is silly propaganda. It is sad, that so many Poles believe this nonsense still.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Like many Soviet veterans (who have no qualms of conscience due to their raping German minor girls and killing Polish NSZ "reactionary bourgeois dwarfs" or AK) believe nonsense about "Hitler killing all Slavs". Nonsense. Hitler had Slovak, Croat, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Slovenian, Belarussian and White emigré Russian and many Cossack Slavic allies. Research the truth and read the Finnish book in translation.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax I will not be reading any books that speak lies. You say I can't refute you, I can because you don't present any facts at all. You simply say - Hitler did this, Hitler did that and base your historical facts on books which completely lie and on newspapers that show a greater Poland. Your truth about Hitler loving everyone and not attempting to exterminate anyone is a complete myth - and once again Nazi propaganda. Nazi's mentioned everything that you do.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly A book that speaks lies, because it makes you see history in a new light, based on verified intelligence sources? You are obviously afraid that the Polish Myth of Polish Communists and Polish Chauvinists alike will crumble, about the " German guilt" and other themes. The book I mentioned is one of the most referenced. Hitler never could " exterminate" a whole people. Of course he ordered murders. Like of Ernst Röhm. It was a dictatorship. You refuse to read, silly!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax Your a simple internet troll if you ask me. Soviet historians completely cover up and denounce accepted history because the Soviets and now the Russians do not want to admit that they are allied with the Nazi's during the war. Basing anything on Soviet historians or veterans is completely ignorant. I'm done with you. You have failed to point to ANY historical facts - your just echoing Nazi propaganda. Go troll somewhere else now - please. Nazi historians never get anywhere :)
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly You are the one trolling. You refuse to read historical sources, books, references, even by totally unsuspected Finnish intelligence officers and historians who put the UK and France and their war guarantee to Poland of 1939 into another perspective. Well, about the 1941 Operation Barbarossa, Soviet and " Russian" historians also lie and manipulate today. They blame Finland for the 1939 Winter War. But historical sources refute them. And your Polish propaganda "historians"!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax Pls say no more. I hate reading such a pseudo inteligent persons. You try to write about a subject which simply overwhelms you.
ThePhatPhuk 4 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly But Soviet Russia was the last to sign treaties with Germany. English did it long before, didnt they?
Levasc 3 months ago
@Levasc Yes, Poland did as well. However, that does not cover up the fact that the Soviet Union quite literally allied with Nazi Germany to split Poland. Cheers!
ClassicMusicOnly 3 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly The UK and France gave Poland an assistance guarantee, because the war party in France (Léon Blum and Paul Reynaud) and in the United Kingdom (Anthony Eden and Winston Churchill) wanted militaristic Poland (very territorial since November 1938 Munich Agreement and Zaolzie, and the March 1939 threats against Lithuanian on Wilno recognition) to provoke Germany into a war, so they had a pretext to lead the UK and France into war with Germany. War strategy. Not Hitler.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax I'm curious, do you have any cold hard facts that prove your theory? I have facts that prove mine - including direct sources like Hitler himself which you continually ignore or don't reply when I mention Mein Kempf and Hitler's hatred described in there. Another flaw in your theory - France and the UK didn't want to invade Germany. Germany was paying war reparations, and France nor the UK didn't want to loose that. This is why France and the UK support a German Silesia.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Please provide original Mein Kampf quotes on Poland and the alleged "extermination" of the Polish people (now more than ever Poles live). Hitler only expressed admiration for Pilsudski in Mein Kampf. "A true leader of his people". After 1933 Germany never paid Versailles reparations anymore, so this was no reason anymore in 1939 for UK and France. And the Stresemann agreement reduced the payments already. You are confusing 1922 and 1939, silly. There are 17 years between!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax Furthermore, if France and the UK wanted war so bad as you say - why did the Phoney War happen? Why didn't the French or the British directly react when Poland was invaded? They betrayed during WW2 and later in Yalta. Finally, of course I cannot blame all the polish victims on the Nazi's. The Soviet's had their share - however Nazi Germany defiantly gets the majority share. Your theory and facts are flawed, yet you continually argue repeating like a parrot what you said before.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Read the book by the ethnic Swedish Finnish officer and historian. France and the UK did not invade Germany, as they did not want to risk war with the Soviet Union - which would invade Poland from the east on Sept. 17, 1939. If France and the UK had invaded from the West, a new dilemma would have arisen. And the long betrayal of the 'mere instrument' Poland to the USSR would have become evident. The answer is the same as the answer to why they did declare war against USSR.
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax Finally, basing your ideas upon one source which is a book or article which in particular has to do with the Soviet-Finish Wars seems completely laughable. Also I apologize for the grammatical mistakes in my two comments before - auto-correct has messed up my words.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly The book documents the French-English 1939 foreign diplomacy, and especially that of Churchill and Chamberlain until May 1940. Not only Scandinavia and the betrayal of Finland to the USSR by the UK, but also the planned British-French invasion of Norway in April 1940. Erkki Hautamäki also documents that Poland was driven into a war against Germany to provoke war against Germany, and give a war pretext to the UK and French governments. Hitler did not declare war against them!
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax Finland fought with the Nazi's which might explain why the UK did what it did. Once again, maybe you shall attempt and at least skim over Mein Kempf. Everything you mention as your historical "proof" is completely ridiculated when one reads the book. It was Hitlers plan to rule Europe. You act as if World War 2 was an complete accident. If it was, why did Hitler continue? Why would he later invade the Soviet Union? Why would he declare war on the United States?
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly You silly. In October 1939 and 1940, Finland was all alone in its fight against the USSR during the Soviet-Finnish War (Winter War). Only after June 22, 1941 and the Continuation War was Finland allied militarily and in Antikomintern Pakt against the Soviet Union. Do you hate Finland? You never read the book at all, otherwise you would not have stated nonsense that Finland was allied with Nazi Germany in 1939-1940. I referred to it to explain British policy of betraying PL + FL
IustitiaPax 6 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Hitler made numerous offers from March 1939 until August 1939 to avoid armed confrontation. Even Bogumín (Bohumin, niem. Oderberg) was assigned to Poland in November 1938, although Germans formed the largest ethnicity there. Hitler wanted to pacify and convince Poland to take up a German-Polish Anti-Komintern alliance then. Hitler first looked for a peaceful solution for months, but Rydz-Smigly and Beck wanted a war against Germany. Now read Polish 1938-39 newspaper archives!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax
Hitler and a peaceful solution? Once again - World War 2 was no accident. I am not saying that Poland did not mobilize its army, or for that matter have its eyes on Silesia. Poland by far did not threaten Hitler with war. Your facts and history, is in fact Nazi propaganda and a lie which you have begun believing in. If Hitler was so peaceful, he wouldn't invade in the first place. Why saying that he wanted an alliance with "cattle in human form" is simply insulting for the Nazi's.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax
Did the UK promise Kresy to the USSR? I'm very much interested where you get your pseudo-facts from.
Now to end this once and for all - all your 'facts' and 'history' are completely washed away when one looks at ADOLF HITLER'S book. Mein Kampf, clearly states Hitler's intention to eliminate Poland, as well as the USSR and make these lands part of the Greater German Reich. Furthermore, Nazi's did not 'peacefully' move 700,000 Poles, they displaced over a million Polish citizens.
ClassicMusicOnly 6 months ago
@IustitiaPax What you are, is nothing more than a neo-Nazi attempting to justify the German invasion and subsequent beginning of the second world war, which cannot be justified. You're provocations as you call it, aren't real facts, they are simply Nazi propaganda which you believe. Continuing, if Hitler didn't want to eliminate Poland, why did he invade it and then attempt to eliminate its people? More than one million Poles were displaced by the Nazi's in an attempt to clear the land.
ClassicMusicOnly 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly The genius is often called the idiot. You are blinded, like most indoctrinated brainwashed Poles. I am no fan of the Nazi dictator. Nor of Nazi ideology, nor of racialism, nor of Nazi paganism and occultism. But I know historical facts, like Field Marshall Mannerheim of Finland knew! Mannerheim's daughter was a nun and living in the cell next door to my aunt (also a Catholic nun). Hitler never attempted to eliminate the Polish people. Nonsense.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly The 2.2 to 2.5 million Polish victims were due to Armia Krajowa underground warfare against occupying Wehrmacht, 1939 Soviet and Nazi military campaigns, Soviet internment in "POW" Gulags from 1939-1941! You should study biography of Prof. Dr. Leon Kozlowski! Of course the Nazis committed harsh reprisals in occupied Poland. But far fewer Poles died than Germans (1939-1949: 19 million ethnic and Reich Germans & Austrians murdered or killed in action).
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly One million Poles? Nonsense. About 700,000 Polish citizens settled after 1921 were peacefully resettled from Gdynia in 1940 to Kraków and Lodz. The Polish citizens who had lived in these regions prior to 1921 were able to sign the Deutsche Volksliste. And even in 1944, more Poles (non-Volksliste), 73 %, lived in Poznan than in 1910, 54 %. Poles were used as forced labourers. Yes. So were French and Dutch. No people was "exterminated by Hitler". That's propaganda.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Is Lebensraum something new to you? Or maybe the fact that Adolf Hitler himself promoted it? Hitler, as his Nazi's were the most Anti-Polish people in history of this world, while Hitler was as much of an anti-Catholic as he was Anti-Christian, he believed in cults. Finally, he considered himself German for his whole life until that bastard killed himself as he didn't have the honor to stand before the allies and admit he lost.
You sir, are a complete idiot - that is all.
ClassicMusicOnly 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly You silly, you should not read so many Bierut and Gomulka-era propaganda and other lies. Lebensraum as a concept is very old. Hitler wanted Lebensraum for German farmers' colonies. Like the Volga Germans of the 18th century. Did the Volga Germans exterminate Russia or the Russians? Never so. Adolf Hitler was a Deist, religiously speaking, and a lapsed former Catholic. I know that the Nazis in occupied Poland imprisoned the Polish nationalists among the holy priesthood.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@ClassicMusicOnly Germany in 1939 was still very weak, never wanted a world war, never wanted a war with Poland in 1939 either, never wanted a war with France in 1939 or 1940 either. France and the UK declared war against Germany. Poland in March 1939 partially mobilized her Polish troops AGAINST the German border. This is also why on Sept. 17, 1939, the Soviets could easily march into the Kresy. You know nothing about Polish secret intelligence, Polish and Entente diplomacy and Hitler's offers!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@Koza727 YES !!!
@IustitiaPax NO !!!
GRENADIER4pp 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax You'd have to read any studies on this topic to understand this confusing situation.
Koza727 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax When Red Army passed through III Reich is completely nothing to the "Golgothaof the East" that gave us the Reds with their friends from Germany. And now, Lithuanians, Russians, Czechs and Russians are beating people in Polish culture houses. Denationalization and destruction of tradition is the worst possible punishment. How many Poland must pay for the sacrifices made throughout the whole history. In the name of God, Honor, Fatherland, Demokration, Truth and Freedom?!
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Germany did not betray you to the USSR in 1939 and in 1945. Anglo-Americans, Paul Reynaud, Edouard Daladier, Chamberlain, Churchill, Anthony Eden and Roosevelt etc. did that. And Charles de Gaulles too. I am not a friend of the Nazi discrimination of Poles, and of Nazi anti-partisan combat against Armia Krajowa and pro-AK Polish civilians. But do you know that 1.9 to 2.2 million ethnic German and Reich German citizens were killed in communist Poland from 1945 until 1949? Genocide!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Ok lustitia. I apologize first of all for that that I do not write long, but I'm in Japan. You can send me some books aboat those murdered Germans? I have never met this topic, the communist were murdered or deported thousands of Poles in RPL sine 1944. Completely disagree with the first part of your work. Red Army and Wehrmacht have a common parades and together they murdered Poles. It's even in the pictures and movies. As for the Allies, the full agreement (unfortunately).
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 From 1945-1949 1.9 to 2.2 million ethnic and Reich German civilians were killed. See Prof. Alfred de Zayas (Cuban American professor of law in Geneva, United Nations), 'A terrible revenge. The expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe'. I do respect Armia Krajow martyrs, but I do not respect communists Gomulka, Bierut and Bierut decrees, not Jakub Berman, not UB. And not Polish colonialism in historical Eastern Germany (Breslau, Stettin). Stettin is a German town like Berlin or Rostock.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Unfortunately the idiot with a mustache, idiot on a wheelchair and idiot with a cigar decided otherwise. The same should not be Belarus or such a big Ukraine (Lviv, Vilnius and other cities to Czechrynia is Polish) Pre-1772 borders should be restored.I discussed with the Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Rusyns, and they say that for the first RP (Res Publica-Public Thing, Our Thing), it was much better and we should created a federal state.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 I do not think that UPA veterans, Stanislawów Ukrainian population, Tarnopol Ukrainian population, Sanok Ukrainian victims of Akcja Wisla (1947), Ukrainian victims of Pawlokoma Massacre by Armia Krajowa, and Belarussians want to refound a new parliamentarian RP. I think that Karol Habsbork could become a new king of a multi-ethnic 4. RP (monarchy!). Only a monarchy can overcome nationalistic and chauvinistic hatred. The Lithuanians I know would like to join up with Germany with Memel.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Ukrainians UPA killers murdered 200 thousand of Poles. Read about Volyn massacre. We also don't want the return of multi-kulti state. I'm Nationalist Mr. lustitia. Most of these examples given by you is propaganda of Ukrainian nationalists, so-called Banderists.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 UPA indeed killed about 50,000 Polish civilians. The Armia Krajowa vs. UPA armed conflicts however was an ethnic Civil War in Volhynia and Galicia. And AK and even NSZ also committed massacres against unarmed Ukrainian and Lemko civilians. Pawlokoma Massacre and hundreds others. I know historical facts. You cannot explain the UPA uprising against Polish minority without 1919-1939 discrimination and persecution of Ukrainian politicians in interbellum Poland... Bereza Kartuzka?
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Bereza Kartuska camp was planned for the politically uncomfortable.Ukrainians there were 4%. Dictatorship of Sanacja (sanatio) there interfered mainly nationalist Piłsudski(Sanacja) vs Dmowski (endecja- nationalists, same as I am, National Democrats). NSZ was created precisely for such young talented people. It must be added that our nationalists never took the fascist ideology. It was thanks to a strong relationship with the Church.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Still, I know Polish history. But despite the "strong relationship with the Church", Roman Dmowski and Endecja and other Polish chauvinists rejected the right to homeland and human life rights to ethnic Germans in Poland and the auto-determination of the majority of Upper Silesians in the Upper Silesian Plebiscite of 1921, which Poland lost. Extremist nationalism, even Dmowski nationalism, was condemned by Pope Pius XI in 'Mit brennender Sorge' and Humani Generis Unitas. Not only Nazis.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Dmowski was Nationalist.He opted for "Polish for Poles". Polish education (revange for kulturkampf and Germanization and Russification) one nation one Country. Piłsudski advocated a federal state and Dmowski other way. But endecja was so powerful (200 thousands of political active members) that Piłsudski had to resign. We didn't have extreme nationalism, endecja - National DEMOCRAT so parliamentarism. Facism and Nazism was left side movements. Endecja closer to liberalism.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Roman Dmowski was a chauvinist who denied the 800 year old ethnic German heritage inside Poland, and even promoted annexation of Silesia. Dmowski and especially his student Korfanty in 1919-1923 committed terrorism against German civilians. And even today, 95 % of the inhabitants of "ancient Polish' Sankt Annaberg (sl. Anaberg) identify as GERMANS, not as Poles. Piłsudski was sadly also quite intolerant towards ethnic Germans. Although ethnic Germans made Poland large.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Germany was behind the war and the destruction of Polish. So the receiving of Silesia and the whole east was a good pay. What do you think? What Germans would think if the Poles did the same in Germany huh? With everything we've done we will have to pay. Dmowski predicted WW II, he was a great leader, and only thanks to his reforms and blue Nationalist army in 1920, we were able to fight off the Red Army.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Germany never "destroyed" Poland. And if you think the genocide and expulsion against eastern Germans in Pomerania and in Silesia is a legitimate "revenge", then there is no discussion possible. Roman Dmowski was a chauvinist and Polish imperialist. Fortunately, David Lloyd George in 1919 at Versailles did not believe the lies of Dmowski on Silesia, as Lloyd George had visited Kattowitz, Oppeln and Breslau numerous times.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax David Lloyd George thought that the is not that Galicia of which Poles fought. And Roman Dmowski was one of the most respected and admired figures in Versailles. Only thanks to Roman Dmowski, Sanacja never gained sufficient influence to enter agreement with Hitler. The young nationalists of the national movement majority die during the September campaign and guerrilla warfare. That's why we were not able to make decommunisation and throw off the stigma of communism, much earlier.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Roman Dmowski was not very respected at all, and certainly not by David Lloyd George. The 1830 and 1846 Polish uprisings were suppressed by the tsarist Russian Empire mostly, not very much by Prussia. And Germany? In 1846 and 1848 German national liberals all sympathized with the Polish national liberation battles against Prussia, Austrian Habsburgs and Russia. In the 1817 and 1848 Wartburg celebrations of German nationalist students, the Polish flag was carried! You never knew?
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax David Lloyd George was ignorant who does not even know where is Galicia. I will not mention his reputation on the British court.Germans during Pan-German congress have limited itself to stating that Poland must regain its independence. Deeds not words my friend. Yes, I know a lot about spring for the peoples.
Koza727 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax We shouldn't discuss this topic, because such decisions in an era of globalization and EU would give us nothing. Nobody in Poland respects UB, KBW, PZPR ect. but III RP was designed by "Good friends Group" for former Generals like Jaruzelski (with brand new villa ;-), butchers from UB and Militiamans. Sad but true. My grandfather served in the NSZ (National Armed Forces- Polish Nationalistic Armed organizaion 1939-1960) He died in prison after 13 years of incarceration.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 You should read the writings and last actions of Prof. Dr. Leon Kozlowski after the Katyn Massacre. I respect the NSZ fighters. I am from Holland. My grandparents still flag a Polish flag in honour of Gen. Maczek and Gen. Wladyslaw Anders (Anders was also a Baltic GERMAN originally, but after 1919 Katolik = Polak).
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Yeap that's true Anders was ethnically German. I was in Holland with the veterans, local people care about the historical memory. In Poland, the called NSZ fighters the "fascists" and "traitors".
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Who calls NSZ fighters "fascists and traitors"? Zygmunt Berling? Kwasniewski? I think they were just as good as any other Armia Krajowa units. It was a resistance. And criminals exist in every group. Even in the knightly and disciplined German Wehrmacht, the army which is despite anti-German propaganda still the most respected army of the world history. (Ask your Lithuanian neighbours or Latvians.) Again, we in Holland cherish our Poles. My great aunt married a Polish soldier in Breda!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax There's a newspaper called the "Gazeta Wyborcza". Editor is the son of a former Communist and the brother of a man whose people still remembered as one of the largest Stalinist butchers, judges, the brother fled to Sweden where he is hiding from justice. Michnik familly. After 89 there was no lustration, nor the courts for the Communists, Walesa received them with open arms to their government. Communist propaganda and staff continue to exist in the III RP. That's VERY sad but true.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 I know the family of German Upper Silesian victims from Alt Schalkowitz (Siolkowice Stary) near Oppeln (Opole) who were killed by Mr Salomon Morel of the UB. They filed a lawsuit against Morel, but neither Israel nor Poland extradited him at the right time. The husband of my great aunt is from Zakopane, and was in the Polish Guards in West Germany. He was in Anders Army, but his brother was also in Polish Guards, but from NSZ unit who went to Holleischen (with a camp) in Bohemia.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Very intrsting story. There was a comedy about the stupidity and cruelty of Peoples Poland. Colonel Kwiatkowski, Pułkownik Kwiatkowski in parts on YT. Film based on the true story of a military doctor who dressed up for UB officer and help peoples. Freeing them from "Moczar " prison, ect. (btw. Father of Michnik work with "Moczar"). Salomon Morel? I remember this name. Served in the GL and AL, he drove to villages for anti-kulak actions (robbery and rapes).
Koza727 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Polish nobility was highly appreciated throughout Europe, the King of Bulgaria was a Pole, Radzivills were called by German Emperors their biggest allies. Czartoryscy conquered salons of Paris and the heart of Bourbon ect What does not change the fact that these were the families that contributed to the downfall of IRP. Condemned by the national liberation uprisings an everlasting infamy, and the deprivation of property and the death penalty.
Koza727 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax AK, NSZ, BCh, and others fought with the UPA because it was particularly brutal group. Small children were skinned and thrown into the nests. I'll save you from horror scenes. Our first cosmonaut was rescued by a Wehrmacht officer who pulled him from a burning house. In the logbooks of River Fleet de KriegsMarine you will see horror that officers who report the whole horizon is in flames. The Ukrainians were using incendiary bullets (axes, hammers and chains too)
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 Yes, I know what the UPA did to ethnic Polish population in Podkamień etc. etc. But the AK also took revenge, even Polish Schutzpolizei armed by Wehrmacht defended and attacked Ukrainian villages. It was an Ethnic Civil War, just like the Bosnian Serb-Croat War in 1992-1995 in Slavonia and Bosnia. With massacres on both sides. I know that anti-Polish, anti-Slovak, anti-Soviet, anti-Nazi, anti-Muscovy UPA wanted to create a hegemonous ethnic Ukraine. Like Gomulka in 1945-48 did!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Break through the lies and propaganda requires impartiality. It is a pity that so few researchers did it. However, you must know the facts:
Schutzpolzei operate only in Silesia.
Volyn AK and NSZ Brigade in the reports didn't write about attacks on villages, and they have to send the exact rapot every week. As they took the survivors of the mascara they withdrawn as it was planned in Operation "Storm" (support red army, and ensuring the independence of poland- only AK)
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 The Armia Krajowa and NSZ in Volyn, Halych and other regions (even Polesie) committed attacks against ethnic non-Polish villages (UPA, but also Weißrussische Schutzpolizei Belarussian pro-German volunteer villages). AK was not innocent either. It was a World War. But also many minor ethnic civil war conflicts. And ideological conflicts. See the Greek Civil War from 1946-1948.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Even if we chasing out some foreign population in several villages that it is nothing to what these murderers and non-humans from the UPA did in Wołyń. If a unit of Polish underground state committed such crime, at one whole unit was convicted by war-court. Professional investigation was organized.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 "Foreign population" in "several villages"? "We"? Are you proud of AK, NSZ and other Polish massacres against thousands of ethnic Ukrainian and ethnic Lemko civilians? These ethnic Lemko and ethnic Ukrainian populations were not "foreign", but they were NATIVES of Red Ruthenia. You live in an illusion, in which Poles are "saints" despite all their war crimes, and in which every opponent of Poles is a "subhuman". Typical chauvinist stereotypes WITHOUT any Catholic or Christian sense!
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Thousands? rather, tens of. How did you get such a bullshit. Unfortunately for Poles, they always respect the rights of other nations. Germany didn't have such problem, and they can conquer europe with milions of losses. I'm using rhetoric of nationalist. So I am proud to be a chauvinist, because it's a natural reaction to foreign violence. Maybe if we applied Prussian iron law then we would not have so many killed. Following your line of thinking, of course.
Koza727 7 months ago
@Koza727 I am glad you admit that AK and NSZ killed 10,000s of innocent ethnic Ukrainian and ethnic Lemko civilians in revenge and terror actions in 1943-1945/1946, then the Communist Polish Army did this in 1947 Action Wisla. While I understand that you use the style and the the 'argumentation' of a chauvinist-nationalist, but this is not the proper attitude if we want to discover historical truth and objective facts together. Science is unbiased, in ideal circumstances. History is manipulated.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax lol how many? And that is what I call the manipulation of history. Please enter the source, the Polish nationalists were the best sons of this land. Tortured by the UB, they brought them to depression by their peace of mind and contempt for the executioners. According to German sources Ukrainians in Volhynia had killed about 220 thousand Poles. During the Galician massacre Austrians paid from each cut off head of Polish landowner. Two thousand noblemans have died.
Koza727 7 months ago
@IustitiaPax Pole's were not allowed to build houses in the lands occupied by Prussia...
random777hero 7 months ago in playlist Marsze polskie/Polish marches
@random777hero Yeap so i highly recommend history of Michał Drzymała for lustitiaPax. And dude are you associate the "Prussian expulsions" or in Polish "rugi pruskie"?
Koza727 7 months ago
@random777hero I know the story of Michał Drzymała. In 1910 before a Prussian court, he won the case and was allowed to build a house. The law of Prussian Settlement Commission was repealed. Polish citizens of Germany could vote, sit in Reichstag (like Roman Dmowski did, although in 1919 he attacked German Upper Silesia and even pro-German Masuria!), and had peace and income. Know Ruhr Poles? Mikolajczyk was born in Dorsten. Prussia was peaceful, hierarchical but a legal state.
IustitiaPax 7 months ago
po prostu świetna
Rafal25801 10 months ago
Bardzo miejsce-Excellent dzieki-Pozdrowienia z Katalonii
jocovi50 1 year ago
Grałem w Orkiestrze Reprezentacyjnej Wojsk Lotniczych. Warszawiankę zagram nawet dzisiaj przez sen. Żelazny punkt wszystkich przysięg i oficjalek
sumik200 1 year ago
BYLEM W KOMPANII REPREZENTACYJNEJ I KILKA RAZY MASZEROWALEM W TAKT WARSZAWIANKI TROCHE INNEJ WERSJUI ALE TA PIESN W KAZDEJ WERSJI POPDRYWA NOGI DO GORY W MARSZU
WARSZAWIAK
111kosma 1 year ago
Much love to Poland from an old Irishman in the USA. For your freedom and ours! Viva Polonia!
oxfordjoe46 1 year ago
@oxfordjoe46
And a toast to you, good sir!
May there be plenty of good Irish whiskey for the good people
and plenty of Irish piss for the Orangemen!
LuluPolska1 9 months ago
One of the best polish
duxdemontis98 1 year ago
super
TheWioletta12 1 year ago
So Nice Performance !
BECSTEIN6217 2 years ago
To chyba nasz najpiękniejszy marsz; sama "Warszawianka" IMO mogła by być nawet hymnem narodowym, tylko ta "tęcza Franków" zawadza...
HasharinPL 2 years ago
@HasharinPL
W spolszczonej wersji jest w gwiazdę Polski Orzeł Biały...
wolnorynkowiec 1 year ago
@HasharinPL
Co za problem parę słów zmienić na bardziej nasze? :)
Gracz87 1 year ago
@HasharinPL
Watach 1920-tych była duża dyskusja czy hymnem narodowym ma być Warszawianka, czy Mazurek Dąbrowskiego. Oczywiście hymnem został Mazurek, a Warszawianka marszem defiladowym Wojska Polskiego. Osobiście uważam że Warszawianka jest piękniejsza, ale podobno Marszałek osobiście zdecydował że Mazurek ma być hymnem. Jedno wiem. Za komuny byłem w wojsku. Warszawianka zawsze ściskała serce.
gerrybish 1 year ago