wow, even if Peter was the leader of the Apostles, which I don't fully hold to, where does the Bible say that the "office" of the pope was established? That after Peter someone else would take up his "position".
@dis00612 I would think if Jesus appointed Peter the head a specific office which was to be past down from generation to generation there would be some Biblical reference verfiying that. Just say'n
@dis00612 The Word preceded the church and is the ultimate authority. With that said, what's your point? My point originally was that there is no Biblical evidence of the papal office and no evidence that the first century Christians saw Peter in a higher position over the other Apostles. Peter was a great man of God, as was Paul, John, and so on. I'm not demeaning his role in the establishment of the church.
@dis00612 Honestly I don't find a compelling reason to believe it. That doesn't mean I don't recognize Peter as a founding father of the church as I do all the other Apostles and disciples.
@dis00612 There's no reason to believe it. The Bible and Christianity aren't built around a church established office, it's established on Christ. Through Him and Him alone do I have salvation, there's no need to believe in the papacy. Even if it were true, which I don't concede, it wouldn't matter.
@Lrock79 "Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made neccesarry by Jesus Christ neglect to join her or remain in her cannot be saved." If you knew the CC was true and didnt join, you cannot be saved. Jesus didnt institute a church for no reason. Why wouldn you want to join HIS church that HE ALONE founded? The bible is NOT THE SOLE RULE OF FAITH SO WE CANT FOLLOW THE BIBLE ALONE !!! Jesus is the cornerstone of the Church, THE TRUE CHURCH, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH !
@dis00612 And your proof is the Catholic church, pretty circular my friend. The Word of God takes precedence over the church. By default I go with the Bible. Jesus never said that the church overrides His Word. Jesus is the chief cornerstone, not a pope, not a church. I think it's a foolish debate, the fact is Christ and Christ alone, period.
@Lrock79 The bible itself says the CHURCH is the PILLAR and GROUND of the TRUTH! (1 Timothy 3:15) The Church is INFALLIBLE! The bible can be interpreted to one's desturction (2Peter 3:16) and No prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation :2Peter 1:20) We need to guy by the the interpretation of the INFALLIBLE CHURCH not of man's own interpretation.
@dis00612 Did you read all of 1 Timothy 3? It's Paul instructing young Timothy on church structure and leadership, it doesn't say the church is infallible. Where do you get the doctrine of church infallibility? Why were the epistles written? To correct the church, and to warn of corruption, if it were infallible why would it need correction & instruction? And where do Paul & the other teachers get their theology to instruct the church? The Word of God. It precedes the church. It is the authority
@dis00612 I pray you use the same ferver and passion to defend the Catholic church to proclaim the Gospel. "For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified."
@Lrock79 Look at all the various protestant denominations who all claim to follow the bible alone and who all claim to have the corect interpretation of scripture. The bible says scripture can be interpreted to one's desturction !! How do you know your interpretation is one that is? No prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. John Smyth read the bible in private and he came to a conclusion that the other churches were corrupt. His own private interpretation. He founded the baptist
@dis00612 "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me..'" "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". My interpretation, Christ is my Redeemer, my Savior, my Righteousness, my Lord, He is the ONLY way. You disagree? Do Lutherans, Baptists, Pentacostals, Presbyterians or Evangelicals disagree? I don't think the papacy plays into the equation.
"Come out of her(Roman Catholic Church), my people, that ye be not partakers of her(Roman Catholic Church) sins, and that ye receive not of her(Roman Catholic church) plagues. For her(Roman Catholic Church) sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her(Roman Catholic Church) iniquities."
When Paul went to Rome to preach-->Romans 15:20 "he says I aspire to preach the gospel not where christ was already named." If peter had been there and pastored a church then that would not be true. Paul didn't go where somebody else had been. If Peter was already the Bishop of Rome then why would paul want to go there?
Peter himself doesn't claim to be the leader of the apostles.. Hes a fellow elder.. Let get that straight. 1st Peter 5 .. Next.. THERE is NO PROOF THAT PETER EVER WENT TO ROME PERIOD. Next.. IF Peter was a Pastor of the church in Rome.. why doesn't Paul mention it.. WHen Paul was imprisoned in ROme why doesn't he mention Peter in his letters.. You know what.. There is no chain of succession from Peter.. since Peter was never in ROME.. The Papal Roman Catholic Church is the biggest HOAX..
I'm in the process of refuting Dimond in this debate.
Pilgrim1411 1 year ago
wow, even if Peter was the leader of the Apostles, which I don't fully hold to, where does the Bible say that the "office" of the pope was established? That after Peter someone else would take up his "position".
Lrock79 1 year ago
@Lrock79 1st of all, where does the bible say to follow the bible alone?
dis00612 3 months ago
@dis00612 I would think if Jesus appointed Peter the head a specific office which was to be past down from generation to generation there would be some Biblical reference verfiying that. Just say'n
Lrock79 3 months ago
@Lrock79 Well, there are many things that are taught which is not in the bible. The bible is NOT the sole rule of faith.
dis00612 3 months ago
@dis00612 The Word preceded the church and is the ultimate authority. With that said, what's your point? My point originally was that there is no Biblical evidence of the papal office and no evidence that the first century Christians saw Peter in a higher position over the other Apostles. Peter was a great man of God, as was Paul, John, and so on. I'm not demeaning his role in the establishment of the church.
Lrock79 3 months ago
@Lrock79 So are you saying because the office of Peter is not in the bible you wont believe it?
dis00612 3 months ago
@dis00612 Honestly I don't find a compelling reason to believe it. That doesn't mean I don't recognize Peter as a founding father of the church as I do all the other Apostles and disciples.
Lrock79 3 months ago
@Lrock79 What reason is there not to believe it?
dis00612 3 months ago
@dis00612 There's no reason to believe it. The Bible and Christianity aren't built around a church established office, it's established on Christ. Through Him and Him alone do I have salvation, there's no need to believe in the papacy. Even if it were true, which I don't concede, it wouldn't matter.
Lrock79 3 months ago
@Lrock79 "Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made neccesarry by Jesus Christ neglect to join her or remain in her cannot be saved." If you knew the CC was true and didnt join, you cannot be saved. Jesus didnt institute a church for no reason. Why wouldn you want to join HIS church that HE ALONE founded? The bible is NOT THE SOLE RULE OF FAITH SO WE CANT FOLLOW THE BIBLE ALONE !!! Jesus is the cornerstone of the Church, THE TRUE CHURCH, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH !
dis00612 3 months ago
@dis00612 And your proof is the Catholic church, pretty circular my friend. The Word of God takes precedence over the church. By default I go with the Bible. Jesus never said that the church overrides His Word. Jesus is the chief cornerstone, not a pope, not a church. I think it's a foolish debate, the fact is Christ and Christ alone, period.
Lrock79 3 months ago
@Lrock79 The bible itself says the CHURCH is the PILLAR and GROUND of the TRUTH! (1 Timothy 3:15) The Church is INFALLIBLE! The bible can be interpreted to one's desturction (2Peter 3:16) and No prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation :2Peter 1:20) We need to guy by the the interpretation of the INFALLIBLE CHURCH not of man's own interpretation.
dis00612 3 months ago
@dis00612 Did you read all of 1 Timothy 3? It's Paul instructing young Timothy on church structure and leadership, it doesn't say the church is infallible. Where do you get the doctrine of church infallibility? Why were the epistles written? To correct the church, and to warn of corruption, if it were infallible why would it need correction & instruction? And where do Paul & the other teachers get their theology to instruct the church? The Word of God. It precedes the church. It is the authority
Lrock79 3 months ago
@dis00612 I pray you use the same ferver and passion to defend the Catholic church to proclaim the Gospel. "For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified."
Lrock79 3 months ago
@Lrock79 Look at all the various protestant denominations who all claim to follow the bible alone and who all claim to have the corect interpretation of scripture. The bible says scripture can be interpreted to one's desturction !! How do you know your interpretation is one that is? No prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. John Smyth read the bible in private and he came to a conclusion that the other churches were corrupt. His own private interpretation. He founded the baptist
dis00612 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dis00612 "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me..'" "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". My interpretation, Christ is my Redeemer, my Savior, my Righteousness, my Lord, He is the ONLY way. You disagree? Do Lutherans, Baptists, Pentacostals, Presbyterians or Evangelicals disagree? I don't think the papacy plays into the equation.
Lrock79 3 months ago
Peter wasn't even the leader of the Church in Jerusalem!!! James the brother of Jesus was.
handydude6 1 year ago
A call to all Roman Catholics!!!!!
"Come out of her(Roman Catholic Church), my people, that ye be not partakers of her(Roman Catholic Church) sins, and that ye receive not of her(Roman Catholic church) plagues. For her(Roman Catholic Church) sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her(Roman Catholic Church) iniquities."
afzpuppet 1 year ago
@afzpuppet God bless you; do not 'blaspheme the work of the holy Spirit', he is our Lord and God! God bless you!!! :D Amen!!! :D
joejoejoe54321 1 year ago
When Paul went to Rome to preach-->Romans 15:20 "he says I aspire to preach the gospel not where christ was already named." If peter had been there and pastored a church then that would not be true. Paul didn't go where somebody else had been. If Peter was already the Bishop of Rome then why would paul want to go there?
afzpuppet 1 year ago
Peter himself doesn't claim to be the leader of the apostles.. Hes a fellow elder.. Let get that straight. 1st Peter 5 .. Next.. THERE is NO PROOF THAT PETER EVER WENT TO ROME PERIOD. Next.. IF Peter was a Pastor of the church in Rome.. why doesn't Paul mention it.. WHen Paul was imprisoned in ROme why doesn't he mention Peter in his letters.. You know what.. There is no chain of succession from Peter.. since Peter was never in ROME.. The Papal Roman Catholic Church is the biggest HOAX..
afzpuppet 1 year ago
What do you mean by proper baptism?
ThouShallPray 2 years ago
@ThouShallPray valid water baptism
FriskyGhost 2 years ago
All properly baptised Christians are members of the Catholic Church. They are absent the graces of the additional sacraments.
pingu4u 2 years ago