Aftermath of Immigration Resolution in Prince William

[michaelf1900]

they are democrates and obama supporters, so they should be deported

[Chicafresahi7]

english restaurants? lol. is there such a thing? What u call american food is a mix of different cultures. hamburgers, hotdogs etc are not "American." Having the Hispanics leave does affect all aspects of the economy.

[iamthebyron]

Ahh, xenophobic nationalism. In the early days of the United States it was anti-Irish, then anti-Chinese and anti-German. Now it's anti-Mexican and, most recently, anti-Middle Eastern.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

[chuy655]

it only hurts spanish restaurants

not english restaurants

[johnnyespinoza1]

shouldnt u be cutting my grass paco????

[Nur1947]

This is what happens when you let racists and hatemongers codify thier ideology.

[scalesofjustice0]

You need to get rid of illegals all the way, and ivite Americans to your city and resturaunts... It will get better... Invite illegals to move to your city from sancturary cities like Chicago and L.A. New York.... The big cities are dangerous to live in anyway... This is where terrorist target.  Move to the cities that illegals were pushed out of. Big cities big taxes and big vehicle tickets...

[WBWhaker1]

If he's "LEAGAL", KOOL, BUT if not, then he needs to go bac where he came from and come bac when he is "LEGAL"!!! To many of these people just want to drain America and don't give a shit bout us. They send all there money bac to the shithole and could care less bout our country!!!!!

[FREEDOMSTAR7]

He's illegal too - he should go back where he came from, along with the people making this film.

[tomy6y7y]

even jesus got crucified by the polices

[aguystudio]

By the "polices?" What policy was that?

And how is Jesus pertinent to this situation exactly?

[supertroy12]

I hate to admit. we did ruin ourself!!! We have the good hispanic in the country that want to better them self for the future, but there are the bad one that want to be traitors and Ruin the american dream this nation has given us....I Am a citizen! we do have to respect the laws, but hey sometimes we have to break them too!!!!

as a retired Marine i think justice will be served!!!!

[darknite274]

It's sad that Latin American countries don't take care of their poor. The good ole U.S. can only do so much legally. We need to demand that our neighbors to the south take action to care for their own in the name of humanity. It's time they clean up their corruption, so we can deal with our own now.

[jvwhiz]

@darknite274 The United States doesn't take care of its poor! And a lot of the poverty in Latin America is caused by the unethical trade practices of the rich countries. Their poverty IS our responsibility!

[flyhighbyebye]

@darknite274 If only things were so simply my friend. 

[abztrktrockerz]

@darknite274 Really you should see how much money corporations are making in Mexico paying slave wages and little taxes

[Bruschetta54]

@darknite274 Ask yourself how those countries became poor, the USA should stop plundering those countries ,because they were doing fine before they started interfering in their affaires . Everything that the USA has stuck their nose in ,is now coming back to HAUNT them . You Robbed them of their riches [ land ,oil, minerals, cheap labour, demand for drugs ] . Learn and study more about your history and politics of the USA ,you might be shocked by what will be revealed to you.

[goldendoomer]

did he bring the cockroaches and TB virus with him? AMERICANS need to stop patronizing these filthy spic holes! WE are feeding the illegal beast! JUST STOP!

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

She's right Moberg, you are an ass.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

Moberg Profile (Purely Conjecture):

Either you are Greg or you are a married white male, thirty to forty pounds overweight, in a middling job with little hope of advancement, Christian, likely Protestant, awkward socially, bad dresser. How did I do?

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

And Greg, you'll bounce around from ignorant point to ignorant point, and Civil War reenactment to Civil War reenactment. Wonder what Jesus would think. Wonder what your kids will think.

[mjoey77]

Numerous studies by independent researchers and government commissions over the past 100 years repeatedly and consistently have found that, in fact, immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or to be behind bars than are the native-born. This is true for the nation as a whole, as well as for cities with large immigrant populations such as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Miami, and cities along the U.S.-Mexico border such as San Diego and El Paso.

[mjoey77]

Immigrants in every ethnic group in the United States have lower rates of crime and imprisonment than do the native born. This is true for all immigrant groups - including the Mexicans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans who comprise most of the undocumented immigrants in the country. Even though immigrants from these countries are far more likely than natives to have less than a high-school education and to live in poverty, they are far less likely to be behind bars or to commit crimes.

[mjoey77]

Moreover, teenage immigrants are much less likely than native-born adolescents to engage in risk behaviors such as delinquency, violence, and substance abuse that often lead to imprisonment.

[mjoey77]

Source- An Open Letter on Immigrants and Crime

Signed and confirmed by over 50 of the most influential professors, researchers, doctors, lawyers and many more.

[deaddoc]

Your sources are tainted and skewed for a desired outcome. My life and work as a doctor in California for decades proves this to me. You think your claims can change the proof of my own experiences and those of so many I know? Even the police I have known know this.

Whether it is their kids or the adult immigrants themselves is splitting hairs. Theirs is a violent and corrupt culture. I traveled there enough in the past to know that.

[Belle19700]

Advertise your city, and invite legal citizens into your community. Cities do this all the time. Get organized.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

Yes Moberg, perhaps he should subscribe to the YouTube hilarity of the Southern Avenger, just like you. There's no racism there.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

True, and the redneck lunatic also does not always get what he/she wants, which is why the illegal, impractical, and immoral Resolution did not survive in Prince William County.

[deaddoc]

I think that you must be from an area that has not had a large Chicano population for very long. The crime goes up and the property values go down. Sure there are some nice, peace loving ones, but there are too many others that come along. You can't blame people for wanting to preserve their neighborhoods. They would not care if they did not see the problems already.

Brendan Behan was an Irish patriot. He was not a guy who sold out for money. He was Irish and he was for the Irish.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

I know very well who Brendan was. He was also an IRA member, a terrorist of sorts, a house painter, a construction worker, a pimp, a drunk, and a crook. He was a great writer who wanted freedom and decency for a all people. I feel very confident that he would not have been part of Greg's redneck retard posse.

[Timothayyy]

I havent noticed them leaving, their still all standing outside of 7/11, pisses me off they dont all get arrested.

[yowrzamewakal]

My family has kept our culture, and we are grateful to be here. Even with the war still in our country, we are active in trying to help make conditions better for a safe return. Hispanic immigrants come here for no real reason other then "economics" and then dont even try to improve their economies when given an opportunities to go back home. They just use America.

[yowrzamewakal]

Yes they should be deported, if we are letting in any immigrants they should be because of necessary reasons such as war, not because they want a more luxurious life. My family also immigrated to the United States but we came out of desperation, not for fun. And my parents took the time to learn English, my father learned English, and went back to school after many years finally making a career for himself.

[gilseth]

Restaurant business is tough. What he describes (a sudden drop off in clientele) can happen to anybody, white, black hispanic, asian. Who works in a restaurant? Who are the immigrants taking jobs from? U.S. teenagers? I doubt it. U.S. teenagers can get better pay doing just about anything is better pay than a bus boy or waiter.

[PoisonPosy]

Illegal criminals SHOULD be afraid of being deported because they SHOULD be deported. Some people just don't get it. They are stealing opportunity from legal immigrants by forcing the US to lower quotas. I really, really hate the fact that our government and some of our people pander to this miscreants.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

And I really, really hate that people who are supposedly American can write a paragraph like this, "PoisonPosy." Are you capable of seeing that it looks like a fourth-grader's work?

[mjoey77]

TITLE 8 CHAPTER 12 SUBCHAPTER II Part VIII 1325

Clearly states it is a civil offense. Learn the difference.

Compareing sex offenders to Immigrants of any kind are a caulis hateful thing to do.

[deaddoc]

Not when it is true - and it too often has been.

[johnbourbon]

so this guy is basically complaining that crime had been paying very well until prince william decided to enforce its law.

wahh! no more profit from crime!! wahh!

[mjoey77]

There is no crime being broke being the USA undocumented...

[johnbourbon]

you just raised the idiot bar. congratulations!

[mjoey77]

Maybe you should do some research on the subject.. It isnt a crimminal offense..

[johnbourbon]

it might not be a crimminal offense, but it certainly is a criminal offense.  title 8, section 1325. do your own research before running your mouth.

[mjoey77]

It is civil not crimminal to be in the USA undocumented.

Why would the government try and fail to pass it as a crimminal offense a couple years ago if it wasnt.

[mjoey77]

Its not a crimminal matter to be undocumented in the USA. It is a civil matter.. learn the difference.

[VluvAnitadotnet]

Prince William County is suffering and making national headlines. Source: Wash Post, April 10

In the future, try to make resolutions based on thorough scholarly academic studies instead of sheer racism. The state of Virginia actually makes a net gain from illegal immigrants (and most economists would agree).

[Atrain757]

Yeah a net gain for VA. Newport News is becoming a destination for illegal immigrant hiring and NN had a net gain in homicides. Alexandria basically put out its doormat for illegals and homicides are up 60%.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

That is actually bullshit, Atrain. When you make serious accusations, they should at least be true.

[Atrain757]

Research this, for crying out loud. Newport News homicides went from 20 in 06 to 30 in 07 and Alexandria went from 5 murders in 06 to 8 in 07. Research this for yourself. I know the Virginia i live in.

Illegals do Virginia NO GOOD!!!! Trust me.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

From where did you get your statistics? What is the general increase in population to Newport News and Alexandria? Most importantly, what percentage of this ostensible rise in homicides was caused by undocumented workers? An increase in homicides and undocumented workers in a given area makes is a correlative relationship, not necessarily a causal relationship. Without real proof, to imply that the undocumented workers caused this rise is, at the very least, poorly-thought-out.

[MrMirror10]

Hey, I'm new to this board! I see a lot of great debaters! I like to debate too! How about I kick one off!

Illegal aliens broke our laws!

Anyone disagree? Any takers? Gee I love debating!

[mjoey77]

So did blacks in the 50's when they went to school, rode the bus in the front, drank from water fountains, ate at the counter at some restaurants....

Not all laws are constitutional or right.

We shouldnt base our judgements on Laws, We should base our judgement on Morals.

We need serious Reform in our migration process, We cannot support our economy without immigrant workers.

[johnbourbon]

are you seriously comparing illegal aliens to african americans?

do you have any idea how offensive that is?

[Atrain757]

yes, i'm an African-American and i get pissed when someone tries to compare blacks to illegals. Blacks didnt choose to be here illegals did. so STFU on the black-illegal comparison.

[mjoey77]

Please explain the injustice? An injustice anywhere is a injustice everywhere.. I believe one of the most influential leaders of our time said that.

Human rights are Human rights.

Most people in the USA are against giving Immigrants basic human rights or public services. The same problem we had in the USA before the 60's there is a huge comparison to be made in this issue. It is a human rights issue.

[mjoey77]

Some see the 60's as a black only movement and that is a shame. It was human rights movement. If you are offended then you are ignorant to the true nature of human rights movment. It wasnt for one race like some beleive.

[Atrain757]

newsflash any latino who was dark-colored in the 60's was discriminated along with blacks. Well i dont see anyone lobbying for sex offenders to not be split up from their families, but people love to throw family in there when they say give em amnesty. Illegals and sex offenders have one major thing in common, THEY BROKE THE LAW. I say when someone breaks the law punish them.

There now that wasn't so hard now was it?

[mjoey77]

Being in the USA undocumented is not a crimminal offense. It is a civil preceeding. they broke no Federal law. Over half the so called illegals in the USA came here with valid visas and overstayed their visa, That is a civil offense.

If you run a red light it does not make you a crimminal.

[mjoey77]

If you overstay your visa you are not a crimminal.

[mjoey77]

Undocumented workers in the USA are not crimminals and shouldnt be treated as such.

You are compareing Undocumented workers to sex offenders. Sex offenders committed a criminal offense.

Being here without papers is not a crimminal offense, it is a civil.

Just because you run a red light doesnt make you a crimminal.

You are trying to demonize immigrants, You truely do not understand anytyhing you are talking about.

[johnbourbon]

since you seem unwilling to look up Title 8, Section 1324, i'll share it with you, and end this silly debate:

..."any citizen of any country other than the United States who attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

has violated CRIMINAL and civil law and can be fined and imprisoned for up to 6 months."

accept that you're wrong and move on.

[mjoey77]

The section 1324 regards to Bringing in and harboring certain aliens Not immigrants.

dont try to change the law to fit your needs.

[mjoey77]

You should learn to read the laws you try to quote.

Being in the USA undocumented is not a crimminal offense.

Accept you are wrong and move on.

[johnbourbon]

i quoted the law! what is wrong with you?? lol!!

[mjoey77]

you misquoted a law.

[johnbourbon]

the law clearly states that civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal (or other civil penalties that may be imposed).

also:

(Any illegal alien...) shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or IMPRISONED not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or IMPRISONED not more than 2 years, or both.

[mjoey77]

Do you understand the difference between running a red-light, and running a red-light and killing someone?

I don't think you do. You need to read the law again and try to comprehend it, your interpretation is wrong.

First you try to fit a law that doesn't even fit into your agenda, now you are mis interpreting the law to fit your needs. Nice try. lol

And compareing Undocumented workers with sex offenders only prooves your hatered towards immigrants. You are sick.

[mjoey77]

Entering our country illegally is a civil offense, not a criminal one.

[johnbourbon]

(Any illegal alien...) shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or IMPRISONED not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or IMPRISONED not more than 2 years, or both.

the only penalty for a civil offense is a fine. only criminal action can result in imprisonment. i'm sorry if this offends you. please understand that i didn't write the law, i merely understand it.

good luck.

[mjoey77]

If someone enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers It is a civil offense that in some situations bear crimminal punishments.

Over half the undocumented workers came here on valid visas, then overstayed the experations, This is a civil violation not crimminal.

You can go to jail for speeding even though it is a civil violation it can carry a crimminal punishment.

[mjoey77]

Undocumented workers are not considered crimminals because they are undocumented, they are also not considered sex offenders, You are playing the hate game.

First you tried to quote a law that had no bearing, What next?

[mjoey77]

some in congress tried to make it a crimminal offense to be an undocumented worker in the USA but it failed. Why would they even bring up the issue if it was already a crimminal offense to be in the USA undocumented.

[mjoey77]

Do these so called criminals get a trial by jury or judge at their discretions to determine the legitimacy of the claim for their criminal activity? Or do they simply go before a judge in a civil preceeding and get deported? Please explain if they are criminals where is the criminal trial?crimminals where is the crimminal trial?

In order for it to be crimminal they would have to be afforded legal council, then be sent before a Jury of their peirs tried and convicted.

[deaddoc]

When a non-citizen enters the country illegally, they do not suddenly gain citizen rights. They have the right to have their case reviewed, that is all. If it is seen that they are indeed illegal, they are sent home. That is all. They don't get citizen's rights just because they "got a foot in the door."

Some people think the US is a Christian nation, some people see illegals as criminals. The politics decide the law eventually. The game goes on.

[mjoey77]

I dont think i ever stated they automatically receive citizenship.

You dont seem to understand the difference between a migrant worker and a US citizen.

You are completly wrong about crime rates and immigrants of any kind.

[mjoey77]

Studies and data going back more than a century in the United States consistently show that immigrants - legal and illegal - are far less likely to commit violent crimes than people born in the United States, say Rumbaut and Robert J. Sampson, a professor of social sciences at Harvard.

People born outside the United States make up about 35 percent of Californias adult population but represent only about 17 percent of the state prison population.

[mjoey77]

U.S.-born adult men are incarcerated in state prisons at rates up to 3.3 times higher than foreign-born men

Among men ages 18-40 the age group most likely to commit crime those born in the United States are 10 times more likely than immigrants to be in county jail or state prison

[mjoey77]

Noncitizen men from Mexico ages 18-40 a group disproportionately likely to have entered the United States illegally are more than 8 times less likely than U.S.-born men in the same age group to be in a correctional setting (0.48% vs. 4.2%)

California cities with a higher share of recent immigrants have lower property and violent crime rates than in those with fewer immigrants.

[mjoey77]

Source-

Immigrants, Including Illegal Aliens in California, Have Much Lower Crime Rate than the Rest of Us

Major study debunks fear of crime wave from those who cross border from Mexico By Frank D. Russo

[deaddoc]

You are playing around with words and their meanings. Don't play with mine. I know that a migrant worker is, I am old enough to remember the Brucerro program, I picked tomatoes in California with them.

I also know about the crime all sorts of immigrants have brought in the 20th century. Let's see, the Italian mafia, there's one. But my life in CA for 47 years taught me very well about crime and immigrants. I don't need you to instruct me.

[mjoey77]

The misperception that immigrants, especially illegal immigrants, are responsible for higher crime rates is deeply rooted in American public opinion and is sustained by media anecdotes and popular myth," said Ruben G. Rumbaut, a sociology professor at the University of California-Irvine. "This perception is not supported empirically. In fact, it is refuted by the preponderance of scientific evidence."

[mjoey77]

The idea that Immigrants regardless of their legal status raise violent crime rates is one with no factual basis, it is consistently proven wrong. It is spread by people who clearly have more sinister motives as they ignore the facts from numerous sources on the subject.

FBI statistics suggested that there was a 35% rise in hate crimes against Latinos between 2003 and 2006. Experts believe that such crimes are typically carried out by people who think they are attacking immigrants.

[mjoey77]

Your ignorance in spreading your false statements is attributed to the increase in hate crimes for Immigrants as a whole.

Ideas like yours are against all statistical data and prove your agenda of hate.

[mjoey77]

The latest annual count by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) found that the number of hate groups operating in America rose to 888 last year, up 5% from 844 groups in 2006. That capped an increase of 48% since 2000 — a hike from 602 groups attributable to the exploitation by hate groups of the continuing debate about immigration. And it comes on top of some 300 other anti-immigration groups, about half listed by SPLC as "nativist extremist," formed in the last three years.

[mjoey77]

DeadDoc do you find comfort in knowing that most of your info is the same unfactual lies spread by these hate groups about immigrants?

[mjoey77]

I have traveled to Mexico quite a bit, I guess you have a different perspective if you are already under the assumption everyone you meet that isnt like you is a part of a sinister criminal element. I think the word to call someone like you is prejudice hypocrite, you yourself (unless you are 100% Native American) are the spawn of Immigrants, yet do you perceive yourself as a criminal element?

[RalphNelson]

Good catch. The guy totally misquoted the law. He probably read it on a blog somewhere and, as is so common, never verified the actual facts for himself.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

Atrain, each time I read what you write, I see that there is no limit to how ignorant people can be.

[Atrain757]

Every time i see one of you pro-illegals i see how full of s*** you are. My last post acknowleged that Greg Leticq was not exactly the best person to lead the anti-illegal side. Yet you STILL call me ignorant. Well, you pro-illegals, calling us anti-illegals names wont get you any amnesty or respect. In fact it has the exact opposite effect. More people are getting angerier at illegals and their enablers, so i can see why the pro-illegal side taking more drastic measures.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

That's because you are still ignorant.

[johnbourbon]

please direct your attention to Atrain757's post.

[mjoey77]

It is not a crimminal offense to be in the USA without papers.. It is a civil offense.

Compareing Undocumented workers with Sex offenders is truely a sick thing to do. And it only proves your ignorance and hate.

[gastav]

Of course business catering to illegals are going to be hurt!

Why don't you bring in 1000 prostitutes and provide a restaurant and corner store selling KY-jelly and condoms.

Then when the police crack down, you can make a video about how it's destroyed your business and hurting the local economy! And you can say how these women aren't hurting anyone and just want to work.

Why did you leave your country? Anarchy! And now you want it here in the USA.

[PatriotSue]

Well said, gastav.

[PatriotSue]

What you are seeing in Prince William, is going to happen all across America. Soon, illegals will have no place to run, but back to their countries. Slowly, but surely, we are taking our country back. America, for American U.S. citizens, not illegal foreign invaders.

[PatriotSue]

Only businesses that are going to hurt, are those who catered to illegals. We do not want those type of business, in our community. They are catering to criminals. Illegals are criminals.

[PatriotSue]

Yes, so very typical. It is people like you and me, MobergNixon, that stomped the McKennedy shamnesty bill, into dust. There were 1000 calls against the Shamnesty, to every 1 for. Patriots all across America, shutdown the switchboards to Congress. We let our voices be heard. Twice, last summer. We stopped both treasonous amnesty bills. We will continue to fight. Lord, I hope we get to really fight. So, sick of these illegals and the traitors.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

Patriot Sue,

How was the bill about which you speak treasonous?

[BillyBughead]

Actually, it's a shame some people don't think the "I hate immigrants" crowd is about race.

[PatriotSue]

We hate illegals and the traitors, that support them. We hate traitors the worse. Deport illegals. We all know, what to do with the traitors.

[BRENDANJBEHAN]

Yet you do not know how to punctuate a sentence.

[utubesisi]

Oh, but the American people have also already choosen a president that will grant undocumented people here a path to legalization. That should tell you something, cause even when the elections still taking place, the present candidates (even McCain) will legalize everyone here.

[1andonlyLadee]

How did I open the door for you to make assumptions, that was your doing... If you can't at least contribute to a conversation don't waste peoples time...

[1andonlyLadee]

I'm a teacher in a Charter school for mostly underpriviliged kids, I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart because when a Wal-Mart in my small town went up nearly 60% of the small businesses there were shut down within a year (even though I could save a penny), and I helped clean up in Mississippi after Katrina when this slack ass government left them to fend for themselves... How about ask me before you ASSume things about people, trust, your only making an ASS of YOU...

[1andonlyLadee]

Amazing, you can talk about them standing up to their governments but you let your government rub their nuts on your face, lol. It's true, we're blaming Hispanics for economic problems that have been brewing before immigration became the big problem. If you stood up this corrupt ass government, we wouldn't have to push immigrants out the country to get jobs. The Mexicans are taking jobs?! NO, our jobs are being taken away & given to other countries, but we won't stand against big business hunh?!

[GunnySgtHartman]

You have to factor in the economic recesion that has cripled our economy. PW will be better off without illegals and the cost they incur.

[GunnySgtHartman]

What to go PW. The intended effects are taking place. Illegals are leaving as well they should.

[thenerd2009]

If you only knew what you're talking about..but I am just curious, how would they start to do that? Step by step Rambo, how do they start to do that? To begin with they will need weapons, were are they gonna come from? Answer: swapping drug for weapons, destabilize the whole region including the US. Brilliant...

[auntieM16]

The ones who are leaving are the one's who had been working INSIDE the county. Those who commute into Fairfax or DC are still doing okay, or at least not feeling the impact as much as this man is. The exodus of immigrants, and yes, some long-time residents, has caused a plunge in the housing market, but you could also blame that on national trends, and then what good would it do to leave? Also our taxes have gone up. This one I fully blame on Corey Stewart.

[BillyBughead]

I think more than just the illegals have left, and more than just the immigrants (legal and illegal) have left. Clearly, if "the majority of the American people" wanted to live under such draconian measures, they'd be flocking to this town in droves. Yet they're not.

[lanoistwins]

Yes, my white neighbors just moved to Columbia, Maryland because their business on Route 1 in Woodbridge just went under. They lost their home as well. They are now living with the wife's parents looking to start over. Nazis have taken control of my county. Please help!

[BillyBughead]

Actually, I'm thinking if we round up all the yahoos and tell 'em there's nothin' but a giant church full o' white folks on the moon, and load the space shuttle up with just enough fuel to get there...

[zed4785]

It'd be interesting to see the economic effects on someone who was for the resolution.

Sometimes it seems Americans are against the concept, but like the benefits of illegal immigration (cheap labor, more business) but we can't have it both ways.

[9500Liberty]

zed4785: Great suggestion. We'll be working on that.

[CrazyBlackVideogamer]

I kinda feel sad for him, however that is the problem because if each state chooses one by one if the want illegal immigrants, sadly the immigrants will just end up moving to one state or another state and soon will become a state that are havens for illegals..sadly i wish we could fix the problem where we finally have no crime and just have peace, but i am not saying that only illegals do crime because everyone does but it is a complicated issue.