Super Constellation smoky start up

[legomaster772]

lol engine four spewed some fire :p

[Squarerig]

During the war-WWII-I often observed USAAF personnel,prior to take off,turning over the Pand W engines by hand.I recall being told this is to remove the oil from the bottom cylinder.If not drained it could result in a smashed cylinder head.Am I right?

[BillyRosinet]

Good background music for this video would be the Platters singing "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes." :-)

[tubernation1]

Fill the oil and check the gas...

[twistedyogert]

Engine 4 backfired.

[MayoDK]

Naah, the oilleaking wasn't that bad; BUT on the R4360 engine in the Boeing 377, you would experience and oilburn rate of about 5 GALLONS per hour. Granted, the R4360 is a huuuge engine, and therefore it is also a big number.

But radials do eat quite a lot of oil. That's somewhat the charme of it aswell :)

[ROCKSTARCRANE]

Truly the most elegant and beautiful airplane ever built....

[nolifemerc]

can this old fart fly on 1 engine.

[erbhotrod6100]

Go 193rd ---- Last Air guard unit in the world to use these great planes!!!! Our last one is at Wright Pat Air base museum.

[1100HondaCB]

How can people dislike this magical experience. Four people need medical attention!

[1100HondaCB]

If only Heathrow was like this today. Heaven. Radials smoke on start up because oil leaks past the valve guides of the lower cylinders due to gravity. Flat cylinder engines have similar problems.

[goinghomesomeday1]

@1100HondaCB -- I had an old BSA 2½ horse power that had the same problem. LoL :-}. She was grand after warmup. PuT, PuT, PuT.

[tobilie94]

There was a fire at engine 4

[yamahonkawazuki]

@tobilie94 raw fuel. common :) first time i ever saw that i was like WTF?

[MrVAPilot]

lol at engine number fore there is a fire while starting it :D, love these old props... :D

[wgiathuan]

wow nice plane!!

[gm16v149]

Pretty sure these are the same engines, R3350s, that were in the B29 Superfortress, the 'atomic bomber'

[AllanVictoriaA]

0:54 flames!

[wwnixon]

Smoky old connies ,, loved them .

[chaosopher23]

Anytime you get a cylinder pointing down, you have to pump out the accumulated oil, and that oil will burn and smoke and make the engine really look bad, but it's really good to see that smoke. It means there's enough oil in the motor. If it didn't smoke when you started it, you had to shut it down and chew out your mechanic.

[knuckey63]

Ah, big round engines =)

[mrp0208]

These are radial engines with many cylinders, there are so many pistons you have to crank it over so each cylinder sucks in some fuel and then hit the spark to it so it starts(mags) that is the procedure.

[jamesmaners]

As a small boy my Mom and Dad would take us to the airport to watch the planes. Does anyone know why these large aircraft engines seem so reluctant to start

[Proplinerman]

See comments below for explanation of involved starting procedure.

[TheHarryMann]

@jamesmaners They're deliberately waiting for each cylinder clear any (hydraulic) locks before switrching the mags (ignition) on... then they start straight away.

[kirkconway]

@jamesmaners

lotsa oil in the bottom of cylinder's, and over rich carb setting's,

or primed too much, loading the engine up,

[Polybun]

@jamesmaners not large, so much as any round engine is reluctant to start.oil isn't as easy to ignite as gasoline, and they end up with a considerable amount in the intake path after sitting for a bit. So, you get it rich as hell, which won't light either, but then you let her lean out on her own as she pumps some raw fuel through herself, eventually it goes. Honestly those engines took right off. He hit the mags and they went. doesn't get any better than that.

[kyberforce]

don't mess about just turn the key she'll fire right up

[Proplinerman]

Yes, completely normal.

[cmhorst]

It Iimportant to turn past a certain number of blades before turning the ignition on. This is to insure that all cylinders are not oil locked due to seepage into the cylinders. If a cylinder did have enough oil in it the rising piston would not be able to compress the oil thus causing the engine to come to a abrupt stop or bend a connecting rod or such. The starter motor hopefully would come to a start before doing damage. This is only part of the start procedure.

[kinsley2108]

@cmhorst Wonder who was the lucky guy who found that out, lol.

[The1dasha]

@Proplinerman Have you seen Australia's Historical Aircraft Restoration Society (HARS), where they have a restored Qantas "Connie", as she is known. She still flies at airshows, and to and from airshows from her home south of Sydney. There are a couple of great videos of her taking off at night, and a video of take off sitting next to the wing watching the engines. What a symphony!

[TiffanyJ1985]

didn't seem good that the 4th put out flames when starting up.. is that normal no not?

[chaosopher23]

@TiffanyJ1985 The pilot hit the switch a little soon, and ignited fuel on the intake stroke. Such a thing happens sometimes with manually-activated spark.

[bondwr]

Yes, many of you are correct. You must count the props to remove the excess oil from the lower cylinders before turning on the magnetos, and this is also done to prime the cylinders. As each count of a blade passes you hit the prime switch, then once you have reached your blade count keep the engine turning and flip the magnetos switch to the ON position to start up the engine(s). Before even doing all this (turning of the engine), move the throttle lever about half inch forward.

[MyNikolaas]

what airline is this?

[Proplinerman]

@MyNikolaas It's not owned by an airline, but by the SCFA-the Super Constellation Flyers' Association, a Swiss private organisation.

[MyNikolaas]

@Proplinerman cool

[ckfsr]

It has something to do with pumping the oil out of the cylinders before starting the engine. Oil in the cylinders during ignition on start up did a lot of damage . Most radials had to be spun before the ignition was turned on.

[ericclapton36]

With Radial engines, oil can collect in the bottom cylinder(s) so by turning the propellers, it opens the exhaust valve and drains the oil. If this isn't done, the piston will try to compress an almost incompressible fluid, and the pressure can throw a connecting rod. You either have to turn it by hand or with the electric starter before switching mags on.

[matthiashaenni]

great, I like the count down ;-)

[SgtGrant23]

i bet that was boy of joy to clean

[pvtpstr]

Those Wright R3350's were fire-prone and always had cooling problems, despite their relatively low cruise demands.

[stratoleft]

So? At least they work, unlike toyota's prius accelerator pedal. I would feel much more safe flying in any Constellation variant now rather than driving anything toyota makes ;-)

[barthoedemaker]

Yeah, but oil always sinks to the bottom of the engine, with a normal V or Line engine this is OK. But since it's a Radial, with cylinders all around, need to pump it trough the crankcase first, before they fire the old girl up.

The oil will not blow up the block, but will deff push out some oil seals, which the engine have to be sent to a mechanic to fix.

[FEDEXMD11]

Uh no, looks like a misfire on 4....

[barthoedemaker]

Yes, it's for the oil to spread in the engine, before startup.

[bagelboi66]

Why do you count at the start? This seems to be an operation unique to radial engines?

[Proplinerman]

If you notice, he counts twelve blades turning for each engine. I think this has something to do with getting enough fuel and air mixture into the cylinders, by turning the engine over first-but I am no engineer.

[barthoedemaker]

@Proplinerman Just for the oil, nothing to do with fuel and air. I'm an engineer. Anyhow after studying this video, the piston's oil rings must be bad or they are using to thin oil, that's why it spurs so much, or either there's to much oil into the crankcase. Shouldn't do this normally.

[Easyjet8810]

@Proplinerman

the reason is, that with radial engines, oil accumulates in the bottom cylinder, this can cause bent connecting rods in the piston if worked against, it's a hydrolock, so by turning the engine over for a specified time will help drain the oil out of the bottom cylinder, if that isn't done, bad things will happen

[SunsetConductor]

@Proplinerman I am a pilot, but I fly single engine land. The blade count, as I understand it, is to insure that the oil pump has sufficient time to pump oil to the moving parts before you switch on the engine. It prevents the motor from tearing itself to pieces on startup. It also allows fuel to sufficiently prime.

[MandolinHymns]

@Proplinerman It has to do with scavenging the oil out of the bottom cylinders. Sometimes the bottom ones can get quite a bit of oil leak-through as they sit---can do a whole lot of damage. Quite a few older radials had to be hand-turned to scavenge the oil. That is why radials are so smokey when they start---burning off the oil out of the bottom cylinders. Cool old engines!

[badsletje]

@Proplinerman

I don't exactly know how to explane it in English but I try. When radial engines did not turn for over half a hour you have to turn 12 blades by hand or with the starter engine to prefend to have to much oil in the bottom cilinder. When you turn 12 blades you will pump the oil around in all the cilinders (we do it by hand on our DC3's)

[Polybun]

@Proplinerman It ensures that the bottom cylenders are free of oil. Oil can collect in the upside down pistons of a radial engine and hydrolock it. Now, if the start hits a cylinder full of oil, it just stops, no damage is done. If the thing fires, it tends to blow that head clean off.  So you can't the number of blade tips that have gone by and that ensures that the engine has made two revolutions, ensuring all pistons have been through a compression stroke.

[FErecip]

@Proplinerman  It's to check for NO oil between the pistons and cylinderheads (lower cylinders) before

continuing the start sequence.

[FErecip]

FErecip; It's to check for NO oil between the pistons and cylinderheads (lower cylinders) before

continuing the start sequence.

[ZebRarius]

The blades are counted in order to ensure that no oil has collected in the lower cylinders. If oil has collected, you can develop a hydraulic lock condition, which will blow the cylinder heads off. As the blades turn, they are checking to make sure they rotate smoothly. 12 blades ensures the engine has turned through at least one full cycle on each cylinder.

[tchapman1977]

@bagelboi66 It's to "prime the pump" so-to-speak on a radial piston engine. The Wright R-3350 Turbocompound engines have 18 cylinders & in order to have it operate normally, you have to cycle the fuel-air mixture into all cylinders before you advance the spark for ignition. Failure to do so will result in a failed start at best or damage to the engine which would ultimately result in engine failure during flight.

[rjsacs]

@bagelboi66 They are counting the prop blades as they turn. The purpose is to clear the lower cylinders of any fuel or oil before turning on the magnetos and fuel prime.

[SgtGrant23]

@bagelboi66 since its a radial engine, he turns it cause the oil settings in the bottom cylinders from gravity if he were to start up and if their is a bunch of oil it could bend the piston rod and kill the engine

[SgtGrant23]

@bagelboi66 some times people pull the propeller thru if you've seen footage of people pulling on the propeller they either pull it thru or pump it thru to a number of rotations per blade to make sure that theres no oil in the bottom cylinders he does this by starting the engine, with out the magnetos

[knuckey63]

@bagelboi66 With radial engines, the oil would collect in the lower cylinders. The props had to be "swung" to clear the oil out otherwise the enginge would be destroyed as the oil would not compress on firing. This also explains the smoke when the engine is first started. If you look up B29 start up, you will see ground crews doing this manually.

[buster757]

@bagelboi66 No the flight engineer is counting 12 blades to check for liquid lock (engine oil draining into the bottom cylinders) This oil is not compressible and will bend a connecting rod if the engine is started with this oil present. Counting the blades makes sure through a complete revolution of the crankshaft that all oil has been released.

[mikemraz]

@bagelboi66 Radial engines can experience hydraulic lock when oil drains into the lower cylinders when the engine isn't running. You count the prop blades to ensure that the engine has made at least two complete revolutions (meaning that all 18 cylinders, in the case of these R-3350s, have gone through at least one compression stroke) before turning on the magneto switch. Hydraulic lock is nasty, it can break connecting rods and pistons, crack heads, etc.

[GunBroker100]

@mikemraz The engines should be cleared prior to any attempt to start them. This was done by turning the props through one full rotation. If the engine locked prior to one full turn, it would be turned backward to open the valves and allow oil to drain into the exhaust manifolds. Later models had compression release vales on the below horizontal center cylinders to allow oil drainage. My dad would have flipped out if he saw them start them without clearing them first.

[KartKing4ever]

u no when it looks like the blades are going backwards thats cuz ur eyes can only see so many ummm well frames per seccond pretty much

[c10valkyrie]

such a sweet machine, love it!!

[jmmarte]

Beautiful!

[ryan000s]

there was flames out the exhaust on engine four

[Proplinerman]

Completely normal with this type of engine.

[P214Stearman]

just primed a little bit too much ... isn't really dangerous

[yamahonkawazuki]

yup the ol girl farted. it happens

[Skoervmak]

@ryan000s thats absolute ok. you see flames during the whole flight. its a good sign. sign that engines are working :-)

[jmstowe]

My father was an Engineer on the connies for years. This almost brought tears to his eyes. It was an elegant airplaine and you felt so connected to the airplain.

[Proplinerman]

Thanks for your comment on my video and I'm glad you and your father both enjoyed it. Flying on the SCFA Connie was a very memorable experience.

[flyingxk]

@jmstowe same here , my dad worked on them for 13 yrs with TWA

[PuzzlingEvidenceTV]

I spent many hours cleaning that oil off the cowling and wing after we had landing in Agana, or Da Nang, or the P.I....and loving it. I grew up around Connies, and was totally jazzed to be in one of the last squadrons with them. I miss that sound so...Thanks to youtube, I can hear again!

[miguelmouta]

UNESCO should consider this plane, and the DC-3, as Patrimonies of Mankind.

[Petrik08]

The best aircraft ever!

[Santoslhelpa]

what isit?

burning oil?

bad maintenance?

[Proplinerman]

All perfectly normal, especially in a 55+ year old aircraft.

[Santoslhelpa]

ah .. .

you ... kind of sawthe fire in thesecond one right?

but maybe youre right its all not that blue smoke more black which means burned fuel particles and not burned oil . ..

i used to overestimate thecondition ofhtese birds massively assuming htey sit still ina museum for decades in temperate conditions . ..

[nakedcomputing]

Normal.

[Nza420]

yup.. no smoke, no excess oil -- you need to worry.  Oil dripping, oil trail on the wing -- you're good.

[AndreiTupolev]

As i believe they still say about JT8D's, if there's not oil leaking from it, then you need to worry.

[neverboardproduction]

@Nza420 yup. even on the small engines the oir trail is the sign of a radial engine. Actually, these birds dont even burn a fraction of the fuel a jet uses.

[kinsley2108]

@Nza420 Oil leakage, 1 to 10 litres, leak within limits, lol.

[kinsley2108]

@Nza420 Oil leakage, 1 to 10 litres/min, leak within limits, lol.

[Techno04335]

that shit is old.. but cool tho

[AndreiTupolev]

Nice belch from no.4 there. Bit like an RB211 on a cold day. :P

[stephenwx2]

Awesome vid was great to show my mates what I have experienced with the HARS Connie VH-EAG, hoping to get footage our our Constellation starting up and flying tomorrow!

[apeppink]

Steve, will you post more abt your (you guys'?) Connie. Do you have an organization running it? Where do you get 115/145 to run it anymore? Where you getting parts etc.? Where you guys located?

Thx.

[tchapman1977]

@apeppink as for the oil, I don't know but as for the parts, some are salvaged & reconditioned off of unflyable airframes or the few spares that still exist in warehouses throughout the world. The rest have to be custom machined to factory specs. Makes for a VERY expensive labor of love. If money is an issue, it's cheaper to buy a modern-day jetliner, but you won't get the elegance & beauty of the Connie with one of those. :)

[apeppink]

The old 3350's were turbocompounded 2 row weren't they?

[stephenwx2]

thats correct they are twin row 18 cylinder, turbo compounded by turbines on the exhaust and supercharged too.

[stephenwinkler]

Two rows of nine cylinders. The eighteen cylinders drove three exhaust-driven, power- recovery turbines.

[apeppink]

The old 4360's were something. The after cyls always heated up.

[SenorSpode]

I downloaded a Flight Simulator add-on of the Connie and it belches smoke and fire on startup, just like the real one. Good vid!

[fordlandau]

so great to see..modern planes are so wimpy!!

[mikemike390]

i would be scared being on that plane look when #4 sstarts up theres like a fire there

[SGLacker]

Perfectly normal radial engine start.

[nakedcomputing]

That just means it's working.

[tchapman1977]

@mikemike390 That's normal radial piston engine operation. When you prime the engines for start, sometimes a little extra fuel-air mixture gets dumped in & it doesn't burn as completely as it should resulting in a bit of a "belch" but once the engine is successfully started, it goes away as the engine receives only the mixture it needs.

[elroto]

sorry I meant crewed

[awkwarddude]

Thank you for the smokin' symphony!

[hftfire]

Nice little fire there at the end of starting engine 4... digital photography makes one think the blades are stopped at that point though the propeller is in sync with the camera shutter... would have liked to see the rest through take off next time.

[tuutuutango]

Actually, digital camcorders do a better job of showing props if the operator DOESN'T USE THE STROBE/SHUTTER option. I hate it when people use the strobe/shutter because it distorts the reality as they way the brain and human eye perceive motion... (Sorry, I used to teach television at a local university...) I'm off my soapbox now... Nice video of my all-time favorite piston powered passenger airplane. Love that Connie!

[babynoopy]

I agree; stop that damned strobe effect it screws up everything, jesus

[apeppink]

Shouldn't use the name of the Lord flippantly like that Baby.

[doodlebug68]

Who is the Lord Flippantly?.........A relation of Screaming Lord Such?

[nakedcomputing]

That's not an effect. The camera frame rate isn't fast enough to record the fast moving propellers.

[Getbent4561]

Hi like the video my name is Robert neufield. I like the video but wished the L-1049 and DC-7 were powered. By Pratt & Whitney R-4360 28-Cylinder Fuel Injected Supercharged Radial Engines. They would have been alot more reliable than the R-3350 and poor reliablility. can you givem e your email address please if you have one thanks

[Getbent4561]

Interesting Video of the Aircraft Starting. I wish they gad used the PRatt & Whitney R-4360 28-Cylinder Fuel Injected Radial Supercharged Engine. would have been a hell of a lot more reiliable than the wrighr R-3350 are these engine fuel injected or carbureted. Can you get these fuel injected yes no thansk email address to me would be appreciated thanks alot

[GGigabiteM]

The R-3350 is far more reliable than the R-4360 ever was. You could go 2500-3000 hours on a 3350 on MTBO, unlike the 600 or less on a 4360. The 4360 was also problematic in that you couldn't guarantee it would restart when you turned it off.

Other problems like massive oil consumption on the 4360 made it even less desirable in an aircraft. It wasn't uncommon for a single 4360 to burn through 100 gallons of oil during a flight, often causing the plane to return for maintenance.