Glenn Beck Presents F A Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom" Part 1

[10290gilmore]

Beck should pray for some intelligence

[megatherium100]

8 fabian socialist have to justify their existence.

[StatelessLiberty]

Hayek > Glenn Beck

[soorayHOMS]

Its funny that Beck mentions George Bernard Shaw and that bit. If anyone actually knows the history, they would know shaws philosophical background as a Nietzschean. Nietzsche's concept of mans perpetual striving to ubermensche was attractive to shaw and led him into eugenics, which went well with Nietzsche's philosophy. His comments had nothing to do with his Socialist Background rather his Philosophical background which is contradictory to socialism since its a philosophy associated wit facism

[theseanze]

"Evil progressives" at the beginning of the 20th century? The progressive party was tied with the Social Gospel movement, which is where we get the phrase "what would Jesus do?" The whole point of this movement was to address horrific working conditions, industrial corruption and immigrant serfdom taking place all over America under the banner of capitalism. Ayn Rand did not understand the premise of socialism, everyone knows there's a gap between its idealistic theory and Soviet application.

[MiHiVidz]

While in the US, Hayek drew off of the US Social Security and Medicaid system (both are programs that he wanted to see abolished).

He was encouraged to go on the dole by none other than Charles Koch, notorious Social Security hater and billionaire bankroller of various anti-Soc. Sec. groups.

Just like Ayn Rand (who also drew off Social Security in her declining years), he's another hypocrite who took advantage of social programs that they wanted to keep other people from getting.

[qwert4327able]

Here's what hayek would have thought of ron paul - Road2Serfdom page 18. "nothing has done so much harm to the liberal cause as the insistence of some liberals on certain rough rules of thumb, above all the principle of laissez-faire." Sounds like glenn beck couldnt be arsed even to read to page 18.

[MrReco12]

Hayek called Atlee's democratically elected government government "Totalitarian" but praised Pinochet's fascist regime.

[paulstroie]

REGISTER AS REPUBLICAN TO GET RON PAUL IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE... GOD HELP US..

[caisamadrid]

Well done to Glenn Beck for doing this.

[Salvysahagun]

@MegaTress1

That was written almost 30 years before he won it.

And it was written to the people of Great Britan not America

[Salvysahagun]

Dear Glenn Beck,

The Road to Serfdom is a political book not on Economics.

[PoetsLight]

Mises, Hayek, and Rothbard are the greatest economic intellectuals of the 20th century. Beck is a repugnant second-hand dealer. And Reagan was a big government type. Way to ruin Hayek's name by lumping him in with a statist like Reagan.

[TheGrindsprint]

I love Hayeks work. But as usual, Beck makes an awful presentation of what he believes. He´s just not a smart guy.

[thirdshift47]

Oh my god!

It's The Road To Beckdom!!!

[mbs4college]

Read Chapter 3 of Hayek's Road to Serfdom.

[HoGraz]

Well real wages have staggered on the bottom while the top 1% has grown to own now 80% of the wealth. What's the road to serfdom now?

[sil3ntxOblivion]

I'd like to point out that just b/c Glen Beck is talking about Hayek, this doesn't make him an Austrian Economist- so did MIlton Friedman discuss Hayek's Road to Serfdom, & if any1 calls Friedman an Austrian- they are insulting all of Austrian Economics. free markets doesn't include centralized banks.

[VonMises1990]

On fiscal matters, Friedman and Hayek were pretty much in agreement. It was over monetary policy that they differed. Von Mises' masterwork, the Theory of Money and Credit, advocated a free market monetary system based on the gold standard and private money. Friedman advocated a centrally controlled system where the government controls the money supply. That is the principal debate in libertarian circles. Like you, I subscribe to the Hayekian/Misesian monetary viewpoint.

[Shrunkenhead61]

@VonMises1990 Bring up an old post but here it goes. I found out Friedman was in agreement with central banks but in his later years, lost his lost faith in that concept. Correct me if I am wrong, that is why I ask. I saw an earlier version of him talking about central banks and almost dropped my jaw. Then looked and later he openly admits he put too much faith or trusted it too much. Anyway, thanks for the information!

[davenetdog]

Thank YOU! I have the book. Socialism is a disease (I suspect a vitamin deficiency is the root of all Liberal-Progressive-Communisti­c-Angst). CAPITALISM = FREEDOM.

[davijeph]

Please see “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context:” and come to your own conclusions

[ixaxion]

In short, you’ll have a majority of people, with varying risks, on a public plan being paid by a small minority. The costs of healthcare will skyrocket. And the only way to control costs on such a large scale is to control behavior and/or control access to that care. Ie Canada’s waiting list.

If that was Hayek’s argument in total, I would say that he is wrong. However, I believe there was more to that than what you put forth.

[MetaCraken]

@ixaxion I want to say thankyou for having a civil debate with me on these issues, rather than denying what Hayek wrote. I appreciate it : )

I'm not an expert on his ideas, but in the chapter from which I quoted he doesn't develop on the idea of healthcare beyond what I quoted. It seems to me that you disagree with Hayek, as I suppose Milt Friedman would if this subject came up.

[ixaxion]

Government run insurance only works up to a point. In that some people will be able to take advantage of it, as long as a larger majority is paying for it. We supplement the risks associated with those on Medicaid and Medicare for example. The problem with the plan in its current form is that more people will be dumped on the government plan. In fact most businesses say it’ll be cheaper than what they are paying now.

CONTINUED

[ixaxion]

As with most insurances, insurers can only offer such a guarantee if they are able to make predictions about the likely outcome of the individual. So health insurance in its current form is based on the risks of the individual. How likely are they to contract diabetes, cancer, are they a smoker, etc? And a price is determined based on that. Price can be mitigated by insurance pools, which have more healthy people than sick ones.

CONTINUED

[ixaxion]

The problem with Metacraken's argument:

They fail to understand one section: “where, in short, we deal with GENUINELY INSURABLE risks.”

Health is not “genuinely” insurable because health is determined by each individual. There are issues we can control and those we can’t. How you choose to take care of your body will differ from someone else. Another issue is genetics: certain people are prone to different illnesses based on their family.

CONTINUED

[MetaCraken]

in The Road to Serfdom, F.A. Hayek makes an argument for health insurance provided by the government. End of discussion.

[johnbrush]

@MetaCraken Do you have a quotation or citation handy? I'd love to read the "discussion ending" argument!

[MetaCraken]

@johnbrush This is from p. 90 in the chapter 'Security and Freedom'...

'Nor is there any reason why the state should not assist the individuals in providing for those common hazards of life against which, because of their uncertainty, few individuals can make adequate provision. Where, as in the case of sickness and accident, neither the desire to avoid such calamities nor the efforts to overcome their consequences are as a rule weakened by the provision of assistance, where, in short, we deal

[MetaCraken]

@MetaCraken with genuinely insurable risks, the case for the state helping to organise a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong. ...there is no incompatibility in principle between the state providing greater security in this way and the preservation of individual freedom.'

[ThePatchpocket]

@johnbrush “Nor can harmful effects of deforestation, or of some methods of farming, or of the smoke and noise of factories, be confined to the owner of property in question…In such instances we must find some substitute for the regulation by the price mechanism” (Road to Serfdom p.40) I suggest you read the whole page+section. I've read Hayek, there are numerous arguments he makes for state control in certain areas.

[qwert4327able]

@johnbrush Road to serfdom page 125. " Where, as in the case of sickness and accident . . . the case for for the state to organise a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong." Besides throughout the book he repeats that the state has a massive role to play in a liberal economy.

[tyrannischgott]

@johnbrush "There is no reason why, in a society which has reached the general level of wealth ours has, the first kind of security should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom; that is: some minimum of food, shelter and clothing, sufficient to preserve health. Nor is there any reason why the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance in providing for those common hazards of life against which few can make adequate provision."

[tyrannischgott]

I pulled that off the internet because I don't have the book handy, so I don't have a page number. I assure that it's in there, though, as I have read the book a couple of times myself. If you'd like, I can get the page for you at the first opportunity. He also, interestingly, makes arguments in favor of environmental regulation, a minimum standard of living and a few other 'liberal talking points.' If you'd like, I can get you page numbers for those as well.

[zerilius87]

@tyrannischgott "to prohibit the use of certain poisonous substances or to require special precautions in their use, to limit working hours or t require certain sanitary arrangements, is fully compatible with the preservation of competition" Page 86 in the Caldwell edition.

[tyrannischgott]

The fact is, Hayek was a brilliant man. While I (a liberal-leaning individual) disagree with a handful of his more philosophical points in later works, the fact is that he was a hell of a lot smarter than any television commentator or ideologue. I encourage everybody who wishes to actually learn something - rather than have their current opinions comfortingly reconfirmed by Glenn Beck's distortion filter - to actually go and read all of his books.

[zerilius87]

@tyrannischgott I agree. What Glenn Beck says about him his not completely true. Hayek makes the point that social welfare programs are justified. His idea of "socialism" and central planning is far different from what most people today think about socialism. I am also "liberal-leaning", and I also recommend Hayek. Especially because Hayek also makes an argument for the necessity of upward social mobility.

[soorayHOMS]

@tyrannischgott even keynes praised the book

[vnemana]

@johnbrush Sure thing, here ya go:

"Nor is there any reason why the state should not assist individuals in providing for those common hazards of life...in short, we deal with genuinely insurable risks, the case for the state helping to organise a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong...But there is no incompatibility in principle between the state providing greater security in this way and the preservation of individual freedom."

[soorayHOMS]

@johnbrush "There is no reason why, in a society which has reached the general level of wealth ours has, the first kind of security should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom; that is: some minimum of food, shelter and clothing, sufficient to preserve health. Nor is there any reason why the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance in providing for those common hazards of life against which few can make adequate provision."

[soorayHOMS]

@johnbrush that quote is from The Road to Serfdom

[megatherium100]

@johnbrush Hayek did belive in a minimun social net, you have to remember that Hayek was a socialist until he met Ludwig von Mises and show him why socialism will never work. Apparently Hayek wasn´t the best of students, and I like more von Mises´s Human Action than Hayek´s Road to Serfdom, but i think Road to Serfdom is more digestible and more marketable than Human Action.

[Bastiat90]

Hayek had a very nice prose style, whereas Mises seemed desperate to prove his intelligence, thus resulting in very convuluted prose that inadvertedly obscured its message behind the opacity of the prose. Mises's message would have diffused more efficiently had he hired an editor to streamline his work.

[PoliticalWeekly]

@Bastiat90 I sometimes compare Mises to Dogberry in Shakespeare's Much Ado About nothing

[Bastiat90]

Slightly harsh if I may say so: he just wrote like an economist when discussing philosophy. 

[luomio]

@MetaCraken bull shit! You fucking liar!

[MetaCraken]

@luomio nope. buy the book. it's there.

[Turan123]

@MetaCraken

Funny I don't recall such content?

[MetaCraken]

@Turan123 It is funny, yes. Maybe it isn't in your edition. Mine is from the Oct. 1944 Routledge publication. What is yours?

[Turan123]

@MetaCraken

Mind post it?

Too long to be bothered typing, I guess?

[MetaCraken]

@Turan123 I already posted it. Look up a few comments.

[Turan123]

@MetaCraken

Quite laughable. I failed to see how that should be considered an argument for any particular form of social welfare nor did I succeeded in cognize one specific measure regarding implementation of certain welfare mechanics implied in such text previously quoted in your post.

Please elaborate.

[MetaCraken]

@Turan123 but good sir, your pompously grandiloquent parlance does make inexorable the ties of acrimony to our discourse...

[sil3ntxOblivion]

@MetaCraken so your suggesting a man who is a complete individualist and wrote the road to serfdom as a critique on centralized planning designated by a gov't. That this man supported governmental health insurance- I seriously doubt that,

[andro89]

@MetaCraken MetaCraken is a child molester. End of discussion

[Amphibguy1]

@MetaCraken: I am not sure how you missed Hayeks thesis about the fallacies of government planning.

[Xtragicfever]

@MetaCraken Still waiting.

[Nintendomanwill]

Only 600 views for a mass media film on Hayek featuring Tom Woods and Yuri Maltsev. That's rather depressing. What can you expect of an age when we blame the coerced irrationality of Fiat money bankers as 'greed' as if this shows the government should have even more control? By Einstein's definition this is insanity. So most people are effectively insane in their skewed analysis of history. Why? Because government controls our minds as willing intellectual proselytisers love to validate coercion

[MetaCraken]

@Nintendomanwill Einstein was a socialist!