@Roadracer987654321 By that logic, Russia should also be relentless with drones against the USA. Might as well level the playing field with America's cowardly mass murders
I dont understand why these pakistanis are complaining. Pakistan has always been a rental state of US. American has paid billions of dollars as aid, gave military equipment of billions of dollars, gave military technology, gave intelligence inputs, and always helped to bail of pakistani misadventures (eg. Kargil). So America has right to do whatever it wants in Pakistan, because it is paying pakistan. Pak army has received 20 billion dollrs since war on terror has begung. so chill out....
It funny how drone attacks can be "legal" but attacks remain top secret where no information released on where drones are operating from, how targets are identified and verified on the ground, or who will enforce and oversee these targetting guidelines and practices that they adequately protect innocent citizens.
@Enamoto fag muslim keep your own culture and religious bullshit in your country on the other side of the world. wonder why westerners dont like muslims?? hmmm maybe because when they murder they kill in the name of god allahu akbar god is great. at what ?
@BEARARMZ So your 3 yr old brother told you muslims kill in the name of god. Get over it! We don't do murders, and no Islam doesn't promote terrorism. If you don't believe it then turn your fucking radio off and go read our book or talk to a few muslims. Show some maturity in your arguments.
Will the next 9/11 use DRONE? Will Zionist CIA go that far? Is there any device which can be used to record all kind of radio control signal in open air? Is there any balloon with AR Drone driven, some carrying radars and some carrying cameras mapping the sky for those high rise buildings? If no, people should quit working in high rises.
Nixon, when he trashed democratic party, was forced to resign. Now Obama's administration is doing similar things, not mentioning of what they did with the health reform. It would be really tragic for the country and for the world, if this policy is continuing and even enforced. Yeah, it would be terrifying, if Obama is reelected.
The situation in USA in terrible, and it is becoming worse very speedily. Obama signed the continuation of Patriotic Act just now, while in Europe. What is happening in Libya is terrifying and reminds either Munich agreement to betray Czech Republic in 1938 or Spain's betrayal back at 1937-38. Now the part of Hitler plays Obama and, especially our current Secretary of State, the well and widely known mass murderess of her own fellow country men, women and children. Yeah, the future-very bleak.
Pakistan should deploy their own Drone devices with helium balloons and digitally map out sudden changes in the sky for any possible Drone guided US military invasion. Innocent human lives are too precious to be sacrificed by NATO war sellers.
This ching chong polictical speaker should stick with eating chinesss nooodles, and fried chicken to add little bit of calories to worsen hes obesity statistic rate input to under go througth cardiac arrest ;D
You workee hard yankee doodle you owe us interest you work ,work , work chop chop your war fun is over now you have to pay ,you learn cantonese you pay now China owns your country your phony war on terror is good for us we collect our debt with interest now !!!
@iced bananas Your UN makes up these laws but yet allows America to violate its policies ,
You talk of truth and justice , what truth is their in your lies ?
What Justice is in you killing millions of people by getting the UN to impose sanctions on countries that other wise would the the worlds Richest nations ?
Only reason you are at war with al Qaeda and Taliban is because they are all that sands in your way of getting to the mines rich in uranium Gold And other precious gems
Porkistan has to b destroyed. So india, china n usa can use porkistan land for oil pipe passage. Thanks for porkistan to let usa for using drone attack. Thanks for porki leader who received money for killing their own ppl. India is great at international stage n they know wat is happening in porkistan. Also porkistan know wat will happen if one dam is opened. So porkistan is fully rounded n u r again failed.
it's called WAR ON TERROR FOR A REASON! If those towel heads who are extremists attack America again then we need to attack them at there home with out mercy, with out relenting, with out giving up in taking out the taliban. Who ever helps the Taliban needs to all so be chased to the ends of the world, if you make the taliban run forever they will not be able to attack again.
Still using 9/11 as an excuse for killing innocent people...How the fuck does killing people in afghanistan/pakistan prevent someone from attacking the US at home? If anything, it creates more reason
Applicable law? What is this stooge talking about? White phosphorus, napalm, nuclear, depleted uranium, cluster bombs, etc. with marines guarding the poppy fields?
I would love to see their skies loaded with drones...they would look up and see them like the clouds in the sky...wouldn't that be pretty?? I'll even paint pretty pictures so they like it even more :)
hahahahahaha funny justifications of killing innocent civilains.from his face expressions it was clear that what he is reading,he himself is not agree with that.
9/11 was an inside job. This whole war is bullshit. Al Qeada isn't even a real organization. Anyone who stands up to the imperial invasions are considered "targets." America has blood all over its hands. These wars are done for greed.
what the fuck me saying "all countries have blood on their hands" correlates with "i'm okay with murdering innocent people. I'm done replying to you after this.
@AgrivatedKillah The US military is drunk with power and uses it without regard to morality, only in regard to the profiteering motives of it's leaders, and butchers the public's perception of reality by censoring news media and debate. Yes many governments have done the same, but not on anywhere near the same scale, and it doesn't make it ok.
i am a true pakistani and ill tell u that entire families have been wiped out.. my friends 4 year old brother was killed in school and hes is under massive depression
Yes ,Obama should continue doing that untill alllll the terror camps are spoiled in Pakistan .Pakistan is the land which breeds terrorism . A top failed state I wish the flood would had come over more so that alll those had happened what humanity wanted.
@MrPrince0001 right I forgot that flying planes into buildings and abducting, torturing, and cutting prisoners heads off on the internet, doesn't earn someone the title ... killer?
They not only do this to coalition forces but to subjugate their own people.
Stop being an arrogant bastard Mr. Prince because from were I'm standing, you have no right to judge, much less any real knowledge or wisdom that allows you to do so accurately or successfully.
I think drone attacks are unjustified. Leave everything else will Americans use drones inside their own cities, if for instance terrorists are hiding there, will they allow few of American civilians, children and women to be killed in order to kill 2 or 3 or even 10 terrorists. I can only hope they wouldn't do this.
The drones attacking may have killed few terrorists but mostly innocent people, who have families and children, they are not the mere numbers. this strategy is not fit for the purpose of eliminating terrorism. Anybody who has a kind heart and can think straight can clearly see it. Hope the hands operating the drones will one day understand that they are not playing video game but killing real people.
people who are saying we should pull out of afghanistan need to realize that if we do the area will crumble and the extremeist will rise to power and infect other nations. the us should pull out when a nother group is formed that has different views. this would allow afghanistan to have a governmental state like the U.S. the ying balances the yang and vic-versa
@justicepartyuk You really believe the Afghan military is capable of securing Helmand and Kandahar? The US, Canada, UK and Netherlands can barely secure Heland and Kandahar. The ANA has a long long long way to go.
@mtmci For all we know though, Palendromedary1 could ne younger than some of us. Though he does have a right to say what is on his mind. It might be rant of name calling and prejudical anarchies, but it is something he should say, even if it affected people who are hurt by hearing this.
Hit rate on drone attacks was "unacceptably low". He said the US had killed 14 mid-level or lower level al-Qaeda leaders since 2006 but the strikes had killed 700 civilians. "That's a hit rate of two per cent on 98 per cent collateral. It's not moral."
We attacked them! We illegally and immorally attacked them! War Criminal Bush lied us into invading. These people had nothing to do with 911. And even if they did we told them to accept a carpet of gold or suffer a carpet of bombs in threatening to let us put an oil line through Afghanistan. We tried to bully them, then we murder them. We kill innocent civilians just being over there. You ignorant fat fucks are lying ass-wipes that will burn in hell for what you have done and are doing!
@palendromedary1 can you please subjugate your definition of legal and moral? There is no room for debate unless you are capable of giving your stance on these matters. Only then can one assume you have intellectual capacity to understand the consequences of ethical implementation of aggression or defense of a country, rather than a rant of name calling and prejudicial anarchy.
my english is not good to explain but my question is korean didn`t attack usa
vietnamese combodia never attack usa but they kill the civilian with impunities
above all USS liberty ship and the oocupant of the ship was their own peoples
did american ever thought of that no cos they r being kept busy with big burger in hand and large jug of beer beside them and so can be used in futures wars
US people,us congres,us senate have to understand the world can live without US bombers or drones or ingerance!clearly Us administration must leave middle east and solve their personnal problems:violence,crimes,segragations ,public health,NGO and so on...................................................USA needs its own marshall plan;
there is no war on terror it is a fake war for public consumption for the agenda of the military -industrial-banking-government complex..the people are just the fodder to be used..no matter how much legalese u use it's still just so much BS to hide the real agenda
@xadam2dudex so why are u so smart to know about this AGENDA. what is it exactly. an please dont say nwo. an if u have watched zietgist. its been debunked so many times
@smoke123455 the agenda isn't hidden it is in plain sight..all u have to do is read the news look at the activities of the people in power & influence. the events that follow. the money that exchanges hands. the stated plans of the same corporate-military-government..things are done in secret as much as possible but some activities get spotlighted..a few good news outlets are instrumental in exposing the activities of the vested interest but FOX fake news is a tool of those interest
@smoke123455 to acquire money and power plain and simple it's not a secret it's the same agenda that the rulers of the world have sought for 1000's of yrs...the military-industrial-banking-government complex seeks to dominate the world on every level..the means have gotten more sophisticated but the aim is the same
Torture acceptable, killing of innocent people acceptable, removal of rights and freedoms of american citizens acceptable.WTF has happened to America. As for Al Queada a mythical enemy to allow the occupation of soverighn nations to steal their resources.The world has become an Asylum and the most dangerous patients are in charge of the Asylum. Forget love forget humanity forget about having a heart or soul. Fuck all the warmongers and their lack of respect for human life.
Torture acceptable, killing of innocent people acceptable, removal of rights and freedoms of american citizens acceptable.WTF has happened to America. As for Al Queada a mythical enemy to allow the occupation of soverighn nations to steal their resources.The world has become an Asylum and the most dangerous patients are in charge of the Asylum. Forget love forget humanity forget about having a heart or soul. Fuck all the warmongers and their lack of respect for human life.
Law Law Law Lawful! Anything can be made lawful when those doing the attacking are making the laws concerning such attacks, however it also goes to say that anyone can make a law to make anything lawful, including killing US presidents! It's all a matter of perspective, which side of the fence you are on!
@befranklintoo, But don't you want the 'thumbs down' button connected to one of those hunter/killer drones? Obviously they have to test and perfect them first.
@Redfingers, but the isn't whether you have the right to shoot back. It's whether that's the best course of action at that point. Their might be even better ones, like getting the hell out of there and finding another way to stop the shooter. I realize that in many cases it isn't an option. But you didn't qualify what you said at all. If you don't actually have to shoot back to defend yourself I doubt you have a right to in most states. You have a right to defend yourself is all.
We are never gonna be free as the world is controlled through the monetary system. We well never see our civilization transform to a type 1 ( where all people on a planet are equal in helping one another). Smart people built technologies to help each other not destroy each other.
Everyone getting all sanctimonious about the inexcusable evils of collateral damage in legitimate warfare should share their alternatives with the State Department. Because honestly, if you can find a way to conduct asymmetrical warfare without incurring any civilian casualties, you'll be recognized as one of history's greatest military innovators.
Explain to me how we can conduct warfare without making a single mistake. Show me your perfect strategy.
@LAVATORR , if you (or the State Dept) can't think of alternatives, we'll blame it on failure of the imagination. There're alternatives - mostly through police, not military, action. Interesting that Pakistan arrests a "high-value target" Taliban/al Qaeda member each time high-ranking US officials visit.
Yes, there're concessions in "legitimate warfare" for collateral damage. Do you know the principles involved? Then there's the consequences of creating more terrorists 'cause of targetings.
@LAVATORR, but the mistake is to consider it a war instead of just the struggle to dismantle a powerful drug cartel. So the first step is to reverse that mistake. The next is to put the enormous power of our military industrial complex to work on finding non-lethal ways to deal with these folks. The one mistake we simply can't afford is to turn a criminal into a martyr. We'd be better off setting them free. The real war we are fighting is over morality, we must demonstrate a superior one.
How about not conducting warfare against enemies that never quite were the kind of enemies you just can't stop portraying them as?
When it comes to war, defence (on your own grounds) is fine, (proactive, false-flag) attack (only to control resouces you should have no right exploiting) is inacceptable.
How about some ruined American buildings? How about some dead American children, would that help you sleep at night? How about an 18 year old man being crippled for life because of an IED sending shrapnel through his spinal cord?
I shudder to think that even a one of you would say you were in principle against the Civil War or World War 2, and yet in the Civil War Sherman burned Southern farms mercilessly and in World War 2 we obliterated entire cities. : ( hunter killer drones oh no!
@EloquentiaSerpentis Sorry, but looking in from the outside if Obama never "rocks the boat", given the reaction in the US to his health reform bill I would hate to see him do something that really "rocks the boat",say gun control, America would have civil war on its hands.
Killing Anwar Al Awlaki was legal? He had no trail, no jury, no due process. He committed no crime and you approved the aerial drone to assassinate him? HE'S AN AMERICAN CITIZEN!!!!! YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE!!! THERE'S NO TURNING BACK! WHICH MEANS THAT YOU CAN TARGET ANYONE WITH NO PROOF! You've opened Pandora's box.
Militant Islamists are fighting a war against our government and anyone who supports it. They attack civilians not because we are their main enemy, but because we support our own government and its invasive foreign policy. Therefore our government is not protecting us. It is protecting itself. By continuing a violent interventionist foreign policy it is making us less safe. This is not justified. All government wars are unjust.
Yade yade yada. Anyone with a brain realizes that there are individuals who can no longer be brought to reason, and the only rational alternative is lethal force.
@Mrmoc7, no, I think it will make it harder for them to recruit more people. Our overreaction is what gives them credibility as a threat, without that they're just a bunch of criminals, not martyrs for a nobel cause. It takes our reaction to grant them that status.
"no, I think it will make it harder for them to recruit more people. Our overreaction is what gives them credibility as a threat"
They flew planes into the world tower and killed 3000 Americans. What exactly do you mean by overreaction? How would you have reacted? You wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan? We all agree that invading Iraq was a misdirection of purpose, but is that all you mean by overreaction?
Your thoughts present just the most efficient attitude for sustainable, long term solutions. "Kill the bitch and all be good", how brainy indeed. Nevermind the roots of conflict, much less common grounds, just take 'em down.
Fuck this kind of rationality. There's a difference between defence and ("proactive") attack.
If we're talking defence and all you can do is kill to not be killed, you be excused, but that US American proactive bitch can go right down the gutter.
People who have lost relatives and friends in 9/11 or any other equivalent action are by all means worthy of support in overcoming sadness.
However, they should not be allowed to speak in the name of a whole country or to blindly rage against others unknowing of the truth.
If you think anger qualifies for a right to "preemptive strikes" then I simply cannot and will never reconsider my thinking the way you suggest, be it my loved ones who get killed or those of another.
@realisoph and sholuld stopping saying americans , AMERICA is a CONTINENT with many countries. We do not belong USA. So, USA is a country not all the continent, thats all.
AS an American Patriot I WILL NEVER STOP saying what is the truth or speaking about the crimes that those coward racists enact in the name of right & left wing religious nutz...which only for the $ to make military complex do all they do.
Government & private military industrialists...such as a Burbank, California company named " GERHARDTS "...the latter of which makes the components for the ' Global Hawks ', ' Predators ', and newer variants of the un-manned aerial vehicles which are used by the U.S. military as well as intellegnce communities.
Government & private military industrialists...such as a Burbank, California company named " GERHARDTS "...the latter of which makes the components for the ' Global Hawks ', ' Predators ', and newer variants of the un-manned aerial vehicles which are used by the U.S. military as well as intellegnce communities.
Government & private military industrialists...such as a Burbank, California company named " GERHARDTS "...the latter of which makes the components for the ' Global Hawks ', ' Predators ', and newer variants of the un-manned aerial vehicles which are used by the U.S. military as well as intellegnce communities.
Government & private military industrialists...such as a Burbank, California company named " GERHARDTS "...the latter of which makes the components for the ' Global Hawks ', ' Predators ', and newer variants of the un-manned aerial vehicles which are used by the U.S. military as well as intellegnce communities.
Reason it's that way in this country is because it's next to fucking impossible to control these groups. It's not like we haven't tried. The west had David Hume and Bertrand Russell and all they get is shit from organizations like the Roman Catholic Church carrying out a child rape cartel.Oh, you're all a bunch of relativists. Oh, why can't you believe Jesus.
This is the situation you're in, I suggest you start learning how to deal with it. It's getting tougher with these fucking "faith schools"
Such as the June 1st 2009 downing the Air France airbus with 228 - people aboard simply for the purpose of reversing France's previous anti Iraq, Afganistan support of the wars.
Now, since that innocent 228 persons...France has sent both $ & troops...forced to do so by an embarrancing attack by the U.S. military/intellegence community.
The attacks of un-armed civilians is not what I as an American citizen agree with or in anyway support. Regardless of the intelligence communities efforts to discredit American citizens for speaking up about the truth.
Terrorists that shoot Americans soldiers and plot terrorist attacks on western civilians.
I'm sorry, if there's some cockbag who shot at us before, he's going to do it again.
Suffice to say, in my view, that should be the condition for US drone attacks. But we should not have an arbitrary standard that precludes the use of drone attacks completely. We're talking about people that run around with RPGs and AKs screaming "Allahu Ahkbar" and commit hit and run strikes against coalition forces...
2. Everyone is innocent untill proven guilty in a fair trial.
3. The US is not at war with Afghanistan or Pakistan.
4. War can only be declared to states and their governments.
5. Al Quaida is not a government, nor the military of a gouvernment.
6. Following 1, 4 and 5 suspected terrorists are civilians.
Conclusion: The drone attacks are the assasination of civillians, suspected to have commited or to plan commiting crime. That is murder by all international standards.
Exactly. Interesting, Gen Mullen has said the military will not invade the sovereignty of Pakistan - which is where the drone attacks have taken place - especially since Obama took over. The US is using the CIA (police) to carry out the drone attacks. Has the military taken part in any of the targetings outside Afghanistan (or Iraq)? As far as I know, this is a CIA program, which still makes it murder.
Sophistry. I'm pretty sure that if we were on the other end of attacks by sophisticated hunter-killer robots we'd regard it as horrendously immoral. I don't think it makes us a better nation at all. I think it just makes us uglier.
In World War 2 the Germans executed suspected Soviet partisans without so much as a moment of hesitation.
And....ask yourself for a moment....if given the chance, would you assassinate Adolf Hitler?
The other alternative is to carpet bomb the Middle East, or send ground troops to walk through villages infested with terror cells so they become walking targets. Sound good?
Actually, the US dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as dropping thousands of incendiary bombs on the city of Dresden, amounting to tens of thousands of casualties.
Now, we're sending unmanned drones to kill suspected terrorist leaders.
@Redfingers Wether I prefer bombing suspected criminals with nukes or with TNT? Here is an idea: Have the security forces of Pakistan arrest them like the FBI arrested the members of the Hutaree Militia. You know, do it the way the law prescribes.
@Redfingers Who shot at whom? The bombed terrorists shot at security forces who where'nt there to arrest them? Or do you mean the other uninvolved civilians shot at security forces who wherent there? What are you talking about?
Doesnt matter, because the international law is clear in that matter - its murder.
@Redfingers How can they be combatants when the US is not at war with the government of the country they operate in? The US is not at war with Iraq, nor Afghanistan nor Pakistan nor any other state. Thus they can not be combatants. Therefore terrorists are suspected criminals and must be prosecuted in accordance with the law of the country they are located in.
Clearly they have to be governments to be violent. It's a requirement.
What if....say....we have a nation controlled by the Taliban, in which they grant asylum to the terrorists, while supporting their operations? What if we're talking about a nation like Saudi Arabia that just flat out doesn't give a shit about stopping terrorism, and in fact is sympathetic towards it?
We're not talking about people being targeted because they're wearing a fucking burka, we're talking about
And if the laws of the country they are located in include aiding and abetting terrorist cells in their efforts to kill thousands of US citizens or commit human rights violations as a matter of course?
I assume international law takes a modicum of precedent? Okay, now that that's established, I assume you're going to tell me how we go about enforcing those laws as members of the UN Security Council?
@Redfingers, I just disagree with you. Just because we're capable of it, and believe we are right to stop them, doesn't give us the right to kill them in my opinion. The problem is the enormous discrepancy in both knowledge and power between the tow sides. There just isn't anything a two year old can do to an adult that warrants the use of deadly force.
17 of these "2 year olds" hijacked and flew a commercial airplane into the World Trade Center, murdering 3,000 civilians.
Watch your step, motherfucker. There's a lot that a belligerent or terrorist can do to a nation like this one. Rig a bomb up in the subway, shoot people in the streets, drive trucks into buildings, etc. They're not fucking retarded. They realize that simply mining fields, strapping IEDs to cars, or suicide bombing has a tendency to kill people.
@Redfingers, We can't fight children by behaving like them. They are just a cult of adult children, living in a fantasy world dominated by an ancient mythology. By labeling it a war we gave them far more credibility than they deserve. They should be treated more like people so psychotic that it's worth keeping them alive so that we can find out how they got that way. I think the approach we have taken is exactly what they want. How do you fight that which thrives on oppression? Outwit it.
A good start would be painting a big target on your chest, throwing on some jackboots, and goosestepping through their streets like we're currently doing.
That or we could allow them to go run away to some sympathetic Arab nation that would give them asylum while they plot aggressive terrorist attacks on our nation.
You do realize that these are the same people that killed Theo van Gogh, issued fatwahs against Salman Rushdie, and threaten to kill Danish cartoonists...right?
@Redfingers, Yes, and they're playing us like the proverbial fiddle to make their point. That the west is decadent and morally bankrupt. If was us who allowed them to make this a religious issue. I think most of the stuff we've done over the past decade has only served to encourage more people to hate us. And the fact that such a tiny group of people can induce us to spend such enormous amounts to fight them is proof that their strategy will work. Hopefully we'll wise up.
Here's a hint, it is a religious issue. Many Muslim nations mutilate female genitalia, commit human rights violations as a matter of course, then demand, in belligerent fashion, respect for all of this. By respect, they mean that they should be able to kill anyone that peacefully criticizes their religion/regimes, like Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (her name was pinned by a knife to Theo van Gogh's chest) and impose Shariah universally over all our western court systems.
@Redfingers, I believe most muslims would disagree that they're hoping for a sharia universe. It is only a religious issue to someone delusional enough to believe that religion, or lack of it, is a sufficient reason to commit violence. It's not exactly a group that America belongs in. I'm an anti-theist, I think religion has much bigger problems than this, but this isn't one of them. This is just genuinely pathological assholes and the damage they can do with their religion and our cooperation.
Then we're agreed that people who mutilate female genitals without their consent, throw battery acid in their faces for trying to get an education, and stone them for the crime of adultery should be prosecuted as criminals?
Or do you think ALLAHUUU AHKBAR KILL THE AMERICAN SCUM!!!?
I don't know, but as I recall, it wasn't the United States that flew a commercial airplane into the tallest building in the Arabian peninsula. So I'd say maybe it wasn't us that made this a religious iss
@Redfingers, It takes two sides to have a fight. If one is being unreasonable, it does not legitimize that position. It has no bearing of any kind on what the other party does. We are responsible for our actions, not them.
It is because I realize that this is a religious issue to them that I believe our only choice to set truly 'god-like' standards for ourselves. We should treat them as if we believe that they honestly believe they are doing god's work. That doesn't allow killing them.
And if an individual murders someone, does that affect how you treat that individual? Might that legitimize certain actions, like throwing them in jail?
@Redfingers, of course. I'm not saying that we should greet them with flowers. I'm saying we should treat them as if they're sick. The real battle going on isn't on any battlefield. It's a battle between ideologies over their ability to guild cultures in wholesome directions. We had a chance to make it clear that secularism is honestly morally superior and completely blew it because we knew we had a "right" to defend ourselves. If we win every such battle we'll still lost the real war.
They are fanatics, it's not like they give a shit. We have these people domestically. I don't know if you live in the United States, but we have these characters all over the Christian demographic, call themselves the "moral majority."
The difference is they don't commit crimes. It doesn't matter how insane you are. We allow Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps to say whatever they want. We don't "treat them like they're sick," we facepalm and move on.
@Redfingers, they depend on the support of large numbers of people. That's who we're really at war with. The ordinary muslims who don't see any reason to out the terrorists because they think we're scum. We had everything going for us, their kids loved our music, clothes, freedom, etc. All we had to do was behave like adults, and instead we get into a bar room brawl. I just think it's a recipe for failure they're depending on. We can either wise up and switch strategies, or play their game.
No no no. We're at war with terrorists, not with some dude who believes a bunch of bullshit. That's a war we will NEVER, EVER win. You think the WoT was fucking stupid? Try a culture war, sweet Jesus Christ.
@Redfingers, yes, but terrorists are made from dudes who believe a bunch of bullshit when the demon they were warned about comes over to shoot up their homeland. The only part of that cycle we can control is to avoid behaving as their leaders have predicted and resisting the urge to get revenge. The small number of terrorists aren't going anywhere. The best way to stop them is to resist giving them the means to make more. We can't do that by killing them when that is what they're counting on.
@Redfingers yep you've got to acknowledge the way any type of religious nut in any country goes from being normal to being violent- it only occurs on such a large scale as we see now with a whole part of the world's starting to CHOOSE to enlist in these groups because its what they think its right, or that they dont have another job or real path in life to take. any kind of nut is funnelled into their habits by cultural and economic factors. the US can be more intelligent by chopping the root.
You mean like how we successfully "chopped the root" at home? What with our country having some of the highest religious demographics in the entire world, with a politically active conservative Christian minority electing the majority of our leaders? With the Hutaru Christian militias and the KKK? Get the fuck out of here.
This is a free country. You can believe what ever psycho babble you want to, only thing you can't do is criminal shit.
Hey fucktard! I suggest you do the killing first. Then you can pat yourself on the back for it and over time maybe you'll understand! So, go fuck yourself with your "collateral damage" crap!
As in send remote bombs? I wouldn't have any trouble doing that at all. Are you asking me to fight? Fight what, they're not a standing army. It'd be a waste of my time to go over to Iraq and walk around the streets with a big target on my back like an idiot.
Anyway, regarding collateral damage, I think it's lovely that you're so against targeted killings but collateral damage apparently isn't an issue for you? Would you prefer some more ruined buildings and dead children?
Is the "war" being fought in self defense? Or is it just revenge for being caught with one's pants down?
Who claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks? I know bin Laden was accused of "inspiring" them. But who planned and funded the attacks?
From everything I've read, the last thing Saudi Arabia OR the USA wants is to have bin Laden in a public trial. Why? Dead men tell no tales. Another reason to follow the rule of law instead of stooping to the level of terrorists.
Noticeably less useful when people are shooting at you.
Tear gas is only effective when breaching a surrounded compound, which generally speaking doesn't happen in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Do you suggest that we send some idiot in a bulletproof vest charging at a Taliban stronghold cooking a teargas nade so he can toss it in a random window?
Take that to its logical conclusion. I'm not on the other end (at least not yet) and I do consider it immoral. Within the "just war" moral framework, it's immoral. (see 13ony12ay's post)
@MiranUT, not sure what you meant by "Take that to its logical conclusion." If it's my suggestion that we shouldn't kill them, but consider them victims of a bogus ideology, I think it means they're genuinely innocent by reason of insanity. Is that what you meant? Frankly, I do believe that pretty much anyone that honestly believes they need to kill someone else to please their god is close enough to insane to be treated that way. Willingly erring on the side of kindness is just common sense.
Too bad it's done in Pakistan, not in a rubber cell. According to rules, all involved at the triggers should get their heads examined.
elektron2kim 1 day ago
arab life is expendable it ok to kill him
limwang75 6 days ago
The Drone attacks should be Increased. They should be Relentless.
Before we invade Iran, Drones should eb used to Crush Iran's Infrastructure.
Roadracer987654321 3 months ago
@Roadracer987654321 By that logic, Russia should also be relentless with drones against the USA. Might as well level the playing field with America's cowardly mass murders
PanzerBlitz43 3 weeks ago
@PanzerBlitz43 When they start using the Drones to Patrol America then this Counry will have Become like the Evil Empire in Star Wars
Roadracer987654321 3 weeks ago
a conflict made and invented by the corrupt US government!!
Greno 5 months ago
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I dont understand why these pakistanis are complaining. Pakistan has always been a rental state of US. American has paid billions of dollars as aid, gave military equipment of billions of dollars, gave military technology, gave intelligence inputs, and always helped to bail of pakistani misadventures (eg. Kargil). So America has right to do whatever it wants in Pakistan, because it is paying pakistan. Pak army has received 20 billion dollrs since war on terror has begung. so chill out....
krisgladiator 5 months ago
It funny how drone attacks can be "legal" but attacks remain top secret where no information released on where drones are operating from, how targets are identified and verified on the ground, or who will enforce and oversee these targetting guidelines and practices that they adequately protect innocent citizens.
AccordGTR 7 months ago
@Enamoto oh sorry. isaw your comment saying that canada will be the islamic republic of canada. you know like a threat.
BEARARMZ 8 months ago
@Enamoto fag muslim keep your own culture and religious bullshit in your country on the other side of the world. wonder why westerners dont like muslims?? hmmm maybe because when they murder they kill in the name of god allahu akbar god is great. at what ?
BEARARMZ 8 months ago
@BEARARMZ So your 3 yr old brother told you muslims kill in the name of god. Get over it! We don't do murders, and no Islam doesn't promote terrorism. If you don't believe it then turn your fucking radio off and go read our book or talk to a few muslims. Show some maturity in your arguments.
Broadcaster17 6 months ago 4
Will the next 9/11 use DRONE? Will Zionist CIA go that far? Is there any device which can be used to record all kind of radio control signal in open air? Is there any balloon with AR Drone driven, some carrying radars and some carrying cameras mapping the sky for those high rise buildings? If no, people should quit working in high rises.
beancube2010 8 months ago
@beancube2010 Perhaps you should take your bean and your cube and shove it up your pipe 2010 times
hombrelubinero 7 months ago
Nixon, when he trashed democratic party, was forced to resign. Now Obama's administration is doing similar things, not mentioning of what they did with the health reform. It would be really tragic for the country and for the world, if this policy is continuing and even enforced. Yeah, it would be terrifying, if Obama is reelected.
Nushika9 9 months ago
The situation in USA in terrible, and it is becoming worse very speedily. Obama signed the continuation of Patriotic Act just now, while in Europe. What is happening in Libya is terrifying and reminds either Munich agreement to betray Czech Republic in 1938 or Spain's betrayal back at 1937-38. Now the part of Hitler plays Obama and, especially our current Secretary of State, the well and widely known mass murderess of her own fellow country men, women and children. Yeah, the future-very bleak.
Nushika9 9 months ago
Chinese in america are fat.
Chinese in china are skinny.
How would that come?
Armigo91 9 months ago
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Pakistan should deploy their own Drone devices with helium balloons and digitally map out sudden changes in the sky for any possible Drone guided US military invasion. Innocent human lives are too precious to be sacrificed by NATO war sellers.
beancube2010 9 months ago
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what kind of sick cunt would invent these
endracismguy 9 months ago
This ching chong polictical speaker should stick with eating chinesss nooodles, and fried chicken to add little bit of calories to worsen hes obesity statistic rate input to under go througth cardiac arrest ;D
john1990284 9 months ago
@john1990284 Plus, he's obviously American.
BingoMorris 9 months ago
USA = Fascist terror regime.
One day your mass murdering crimes will backfire on you.
megatroll 9 months ago
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You workee hard yankee doodle you owe us interest you work ,work , work chop chop your war fun is over now you have to pay ,you learn cantonese you pay now China owns your country your phony war on terror is good for us we collect our debt with interest now !!!
USMCowards 9 months ago
the laws of war.... I have never ever heard war having laws. War has no laws, people just make them up as they go along.
icedbannanas 10 months ago 4
@iced bananas Your UN makes up these laws but yet allows America to violate its policies ,
You talk of truth and justice , what truth is their in your lies ?
What Justice is in you killing millions of people by getting the UN to impose sanctions on countries that other wise would the the worlds Richest nations ?
Only reason you are at war with al Qaeda and Taliban is because they are all that sands in your way of getting to the mines rich in uranium Gold And other precious gems
TheImam87 4 months ago
Harold Koh said the US was going to target high level terrorists and it just did. Bin Laden is gone. May he rot in hell... if there is such a thing.
NicolSD 10 months ago
Porkistan has to b destroyed. So india, china n usa can use porkistan land for oil pipe passage. Thanks for porkistan to let usa for using drone attack. Thanks for porki leader who received money for killing their own ppl. India is great at international stage n they know wat is happening in porkistan. Also porkistan know wat will happen if one dam is opened. So porkistan is fully rounded n u r again failed.
sureshjh 10 months ago
it's called WAR ON TERROR FOR A REASON! If those towel heads who are extremists attack America again then we need to attack them at there home with out mercy, with out relenting, with out giving up in taking out the taliban. Who ever helps the Taliban needs to all so be chased to the ends of the world, if you make the taliban run forever they will not be able to attack again.
1800viper 10 months ago
Join the Ron Paul REVOLUTION! 2012!
delanogaston 10 months ago
fuck america ass hole bloody son og pig
MrBarkat786 10 months ago
Still using 9/11 as an excuse for killing innocent people...How the fuck does killing people in afghanistan/pakistan prevent someone from attacking the US at home? If anything, it creates more reason
SpasticatedCunt 10 months ago 2
Applicable law? What is this stooge talking about? White phosphorus, napalm, nuclear, depleted uranium, cluster bombs, etc. with marines guarding the poppy fields?
badattitude77769 11 months ago
He look drunk! speaking gibberish
tiluu 11 months ago
I would love to see their skies loaded with drones...they would look up and see them like the clouds in the sky...wouldn't that be pretty?? I'll even paint pretty pictures so they like it even more :)
Pray4waves76 11 months ago
hahahahahaha funny justifications of killing innocent civilains.from his face expressions it was clear that what he is reading,he himself is not agree with that.
captain1alpha 11 months ago
@EloquentiaSerpentis
No Progress? There have been more Drone attacks under the Obama administration so far then in all of the bush administration.
shame neo cons still call him a neo lib socialist.
trolololoz 11 months ago
9/11 was an inside job. This whole war is bullshit. Al Qeada isn't even a real organization. Anyone who stands up to the imperial invasions are considered "targets." America has blood all over its hands. These wars are done for greed.
undeadpresident 11 months ago
@undeadpresident All countries have blood on their hands.
AgrivatedKillah 10 months ago
@AgrivatedKillah .......therefore, you are ok with murdering defenseless people who never did anything to you?
undeadpresident 10 months ago
@undeadpresident ....
what the fuck me saying "all countries have blood on their hands" correlates with "i'm okay with murdering innocent people. I'm done replying to you after this.
AgrivatedKillah 10 months ago
@AgrivatedKillah The US military is drunk with power and uses it without regard to morality, only in regard to the profiteering motives of it's leaders, and butchers the public's perception of reality by censoring news media and debate. Yes many governments have done the same, but not on anywhere near the same scale, and it doesn't make it ok.
undeadpresident 10 months ago
you are too bad bad bad USA!!!!!!!
TAib173 11 months ago
i am a true pakistani and ill tell u that entire families have been wiped out.. my friends 4 year old brother was killed in school and hes is under massive depression
rgrft 1 year ago
What a bunch of bullshit from a bunch of sick fucks. This is Terminator bullshit. It was the machines!
FarEastBeast 1 year ago
Let there be no hiding place for these so called terrorist,s, Behind the skirt,s of
wimen and under the bed,s of children are these cowards prefered hiding place,
Use any force nesessary to rid the world of these coward,s and there sponsors who fear the power of the DRONE.
SIRTAM57 1 year ago
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Yes ,Obama should continue doing that untill alllll the terror camps are spoiled in Pakistan .Pakistan is the land which breeds terrorism . A top failed state I wish the flood would had come over more so that alll those had happened what humanity wanted.
devrajvarma 1 year ago
Koh for President
TheWatcherAngel 1 year ago
Stupid Americain ... you are killer ...god bless you?
MrPrince0001 1 year ago 2
@MrPrince0001 right I forgot that flying planes into buildings and abducting, torturing, and cutting prisoners heads off on the internet, doesn't earn someone the title ... killer?
They not only do this to coalition forces but to subjugate their own people.
Stop being an arrogant bastard Mr. Prince because from were I'm standing, you have no right to judge, much less any real knowledge or wisdom that allows you to do so accurately or successfully.
Cookies205 1 year ago
As it has been Prophesied 700 yrs. ago Obama will win and be reelected, watch
LMAOUTURD 1 year ago
I think drone attacks are unjustified. Leave everything else will Americans use drones inside their own cities, if for instance terrorists are hiding there, will they allow few of American civilians, children and women to be killed in order to kill 2 or 3 or even 10 terrorists. I can only hope they wouldn't do this.
drsalmancheema 1 year ago
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drsalmancheema 1 year ago
The drones attacking may have killed few terrorists but mostly innocent people, who have families and children, they are not the mere numbers. this strategy is not fit for the purpose of eliminating terrorism. Anybody who has a kind heart and can think straight can clearly see it. Hope the hands operating the drones will one day understand that they are not playing video game but killing real people.
drsalmancheema 1 year ago
people who are saying we should pull out of afghanistan need to realize that if we do the area will crumble and the extremeist will rise to power and infect other nations. the us should pull out when a nother group is formed that has different views. this would allow afghanistan to have a governmental state like the U.S. the ying balances the yang and vic-versa
IBlendFruits 1 year ago
Afghans can look after themselves, America must leave Afghanistan immediately. click justice party UK.
justicepartyuk 1 year ago
@justicepartyuk You really believe the Afghan military is capable of securing Helmand and Kandahar? The US, Canada, UK and Netherlands can barely secure Heland and Kandahar. The ANA has a long long long way to go.
jwh30385 1 year ago
the attacks are justified
MorningofMourning 1 year ago
@mtmci For all we know though, Palendromedary1 could ne younger than some of us. Though he does have a right to say what is on his mind. It might be rant of name calling and prejudical anarchies, but it is something he should say, even if it affected people who are hurt by hearing this.
aragon88664422 1 year ago
Hit rate on drone attacks was "unacceptably low". He said the US had killed 14 mid-level or lower level al-Qaeda leaders since 2006 but the strikes had killed 700 civilians. "That's a hit rate of two per cent on 98 per cent collateral. It's not moral."
thelandofpunt 1 year ago
I salute our patriotic drones. Predator Drone for prez 2012.
AspiringPotato 1 year ago
We attacked them! We illegally and immorally attacked them! War Criminal Bush lied us into invading. These people had nothing to do with 911. And even if they did we told them to accept a carpet of gold or suffer a carpet of bombs in threatening to let us put an oil line through Afghanistan. We tried to bully them, then we murder them. We kill innocent civilians just being over there. You ignorant fat fucks are lying ass-wipes that will burn in hell for what you have done and are doing!
palendromedary1 1 year ago
@palendromedary1 can you please subjugate your definition of legal and moral? There is no room for debate unless you are capable of giving your stance on these matters. Only then can one assume you have intellectual capacity to understand the consequences of ethical implementation of aggression or defense of a country, rather than a rant of name calling and prejudicial anarchy.
mtmci 1 year ago
i love how the aclu defends only the parts of the constitution they like....
LeaveItToBeaner 1 year ago
my english is not good to explain but my question is korean didn`t attack usa
vietnamese combodia never attack usa but they kill the civilian with impunities
above all USS liberty ship and the oocupant of the ship was their own peoples
did american ever thought of that no cos they r being kept busy with big burger in hand and large jug of beer beside them and so can be used in futures wars
indiankute 1 year ago
Let's hope Mr Koh gets a drone rocket up his ass someday.
geezzerboy 1 year ago
US people,us congres,us senate have to understand the world can live without US bombers or drones or ingerance!clearly Us administration must leave middle east and solve their personnal problems:violence,crimes,segragations ,public health,NGO and so on...................................................USA needs its own marshall plan;
zakarya98 1 year ago
there is no war on terror it is a fake war for public consumption for the agenda of the military -industrial-banking-government complex..the people are just the fodder to be used..no matter how much legalese u use it's still just so much BS to hide the real agenda
xadam2dudex 1 year ago
@xadam2dudex so why are u so smart to know about this AGENDA. what is it exactly. an please dont say nwo. an if u have watched zietgist. its been debunked so many times
smoke123455 1 year ago
@smoke123455 the agenda isn't hidden it is in plain sight..all u have to do is read the news look at the activities of the people in power & influence. the events that follow. the money that exchanges hands. the stated plans of the same corporate-military-government..things are done in secret as much as possible but some activities get spotlighted..a few good news outlets are instrumental in exposing the activities of the vested interest but FOX fake news is a tool of those interest
xadam2dudex 1 year ago
@xadam2dudex but WHAT IS THE AGENDA!!!! you say lots of fancy words but thats about it. an everyone knows fox news is a load of shit
smoke123455 1 year ago
@smoke123455 to acquire money and power plain and simple it's not a secret it's the same agenda that the rulers of the world have sought for 1000's of yrs...the military-industrial-banking-government complex seeks to dominate the world on every level..the means have gotten more sophisticated but the aim is the same
xadam2dudex 1 year ago
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Fuck all the warmongers and fuck this guy who has no respect for human life.
johndownunder 1 year ago
Fuck all the warmongers and their lack of respect for human life.
johndownunder 1 year ago
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Torture acceptable, killing of innocent people acceptable, removal of rights and freedoms of american citizens acceptable.WTF has happened to America. As for Al Queada a mythical enemy to allow the occupation of soverighn nations to steal their resources.The world has become an Asylum and the most dangerous patients are in charge of the Asylum. Forget love forget humanity forget about having a heart or soul. Fuck all the warmongers and their lack of respect for human life.
johndownunder 1 year ago
Torture acceptable, killing of innocent people acceptable, removal of rights and freedoms of american citizens acceptable.WTF has happened to America. As for Al Queada a mythical enemy to allow the occupation of soverighn nations to steal their resources.The world has become an Asylum and the most dangerous patients are in charge of the Asylum. Forget love forget humanity forget about having a heart or soul. Fuck all the warmongers and their lack of respect for human life.
johndownunder 1 year ago
Law Law Law Lawful! Anything can be made lawful when those doing the attacking are making the laws concerning such attacks, however it also goes to say that anyone can make a law to make anything lawful, including killing US presidents! It's all a matter of perspective, which side of the fence you are on!
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
Drones are absolutely necessary in order to win against those who seek to destroy the people of the country we are in.
anikinippon 1 year ago
Anyone else smell that?
vodkasvictim 1 year ago
target in the name of defense.
tHecOmMeNtErSrEtUrN 1 year ago
how many drones have a load (chemical etc)on Americans?
The Multi'national US aggression is not international law. it is only their law.
befranklintoo 1 year ago 2
@befranklintoo, But don't you want the 'thumbs down' button connected to one of those hunter/killer drones? Obviously they have to test and perfect them first.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@befranklintoo the greatest threat is when the wrong peoples are
in positions of power to decide who lives and who dies. such be the case
with the neo cons and the israel invasion. the history of theses creatures
we just recently experience 1940 to 1945
befranklintoo 1 year ago
Let me put it this way, if some son of a bitch is shooting at you, regardless of the context, you now have the right to shoot him.
Fuck teargas at that point.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, but the isn't whether you have the right to shoot back. It's whether that's the best course of action at that point. Their might be even better ones, like getting the hell out of there and finding another way to stop the shooter. I realize that in many cases it isn't an option. But you didn't qualify what you said at all. If you don't actually have to shoot back to defend yourself I doubt you have a right to in most states. You have a right to defend yourself is all.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
If you shoot someone in response to being targeted and shot at by that individual, I suspect you will find many sympathetic courts in this country.
Anyway, I'm sure you're a fun robbery/battery/rape victim.
Redfingers 1 year ago
We are never gonna be free as the world is controlled through the monetary system. We well never see our civilization transform to a type 1 ( where all people on a planet are equal in helping one another). Smart people built technologies to help each other not destroy each other.
greenboy215 1 year ago
Everyone getting all sanctimonious about the inexcusable evils of collateral damage in legitimate warfare should share their alternatives with the State Department. Because honestly, if you can find a way to conduct asymmetrical warfare without incurring any civilian casualties, you'll be recognized as one of history's greatest military innovators.
Explain to me how we can conduct warfare without making a single mistake. Show me your perfect strategy.
LAVATORR 1 year ago
@LAVATORR you cant write a comment that makes that much sense, you tube will crash!
dimebag690 1 year ago
@LAVATORR , if you (or the State Dept) can't think of alternatives, we'll blame it on failure of the imagination. There're alternatives - mostly through police, not military, action. Interesting that Pakistan arrests a "high-value target" Taliban/al Qaeda member each time high-ranking US officials visit.
Yes, there're concessions in "legitimate warfare" for collateral damage. Do you know the principles involved? Then there's the consequences of creating more terrorists 'cause of targetings.
MiranUT 1 year ago
@LAVATORR, but the mistake is to consider it a war instead of just the struggle to dismantle a powerful drug cartel. So the first step is to reverse that mistake. The next is to put the enormous power of our military industrial complex to work on finding non-lethal ways to deal with these folks. The one mistake we simply can't afford is to turn a criminal into a martyr. We'd be better off setting them free. The real war we are fighting is over morality, we must demonstrate a superior one.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@LAVATORR
How about not conducting warfare against enemies that never quite were the kind of enemies you just can't stop portraying them as?
When it comes to war, defence (on your own grounds) is fine, (proactive, false-flag) attack (only to control resouces you should have no right exploiting) is inacceptable.
realisoph 1 year ago
How about some ruined American buildings? How about some dead American children, would that help you sleep at night? How about an 18 year old man being crippled for life because of an IED sending shrapnel through his spinal cord?
I shudder to think that even a one of you would say you were in principle against the Civil War or World War 2, and yet in the Civil War Sherman burned Southern farms mercilessly and in World War 2 we obliterated entire cities. : ( hunter killer drones oh no!
Redfingers 1 year ago
No surprise, Obama never wants to rock the boat with change or progress.
EloquentiaSerpentis 1 year ago 9
@EloquentiaSerpentis Sorry, but looking in from the outside if Obama never "rocks the boat", given the reaction in the US to his health reform bill I would hate to see him do something that really "rocks the boat",say gun control, America would have civil war on its hands.
davijeph 1 year ago
Killing Anwar Al Awlaki was legal? He had no trail, no jury, no due process. He committed no crime and you approved the aerial drone to assassinate him? HE'S AN AMERICAN CITIZEN!!!!! YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE!!! THERE'S NO TURNING BACK! WHICH MEANS THAT YOU CAN TARGET ANYONE WITH NO PROOF! You've opened Pandora's box.
You and Obama are war criminals!
Richardcuz420 1 year ago 2
Militant Islamists are fighting a war against our government and anyone who supports it. They attack civilians not because we are their main enemy, but because we support our own government and its invasive foreign policy. Therefore our government is not protecting us. It is protecting itself. By continuing a violent interventionist foreign policy it is making us less safe. This is not justified. All government wars are unjust.
truthadvocate 1 year ago
How about we stop denouncing people as "terrorists" and see the terror in our own actions?
realisoph 1 year ago 26
@realisoph
Yade yade yada. Anyone with a brain realizes that there are individuals who can no longer be brought to reason, and the only rational alternative is lethal force.
Mrmoc7 1 year ago
@Mrmoc7, but if killing such a person convinces many more people to join that same cause haven't you actually just made the problem worse?
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
You seriously think Alqaeda will stop recruiting members once the U.S. stops attacking them?
Mrmoc7 1 year ago
@Mrmoc7, no, I think it will make it harder for them to recruit more people. Our overreaction is what gives them credibility as a threat, without that they're just a bunch of criminals, not martyrs for a nobel cause. It takes our reaction to grant them that status.
ananiasacts 1 year ago 2
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@ananiasacts
"no, I think it will make it harder for them to recruit more people. Our overreaction is what gives them credibility as a threat"
They flew planes into the world tower and killed 3000 Americans. What exactly do you mean by overreaction? How would you have reacted? You wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan? We all agree that invading Iraq was a misdirection of purpose, but is that all you mean by overreaction?
Mrmoc7 1 year ago
@Mrmoc7
Your thoughts present just the most efficient attitude for sustainable, long term solutions. "Kill the bitch and all be good", how brainy indeed. Nevermind the roots of conflict, much less common grounds, just take 'em down.
Fuck this kind of rationality. There's a difference between defence and ("proactive") attack.
If we're talking defence and all you can do is kill to not be killed, you be excused, but that US American proactive bitch can go right down the gutter.
realisoph 1 year ago
"that US American proactive bitch can go right down the gutter."
@realisoph
If you lost your two parents in 9/11, you might think otherwise.
Mrmoc7 1 year ago
@Mrmoc7
People who have lost relatives and friends in 9/11 or any other equivalent action are by all means worthy of support in overcoming sadness.
However, they should not be allowed to speak in the name of a whole country or to blindly rage against others unknowing of the truth.
If you think anger qualifies for a right to "preemptive strikes" then I simply cannot and will never reconsider my thinking the way you suggest, be it my loved ones who get killed or those of another.
realisoph 1 year ago
@realisoph
I'm afraid we simply do not see eye to eye on this issue, and thankfully, your vote counts just as much as mine.
Mrmoc7 1 year ago
@Mrmoc7
No idea what you're thankful for. All I can see is what Iraqi, Afghan people and many many more would be thankful for.
realisoph 1 year ago
@realisoph and sholuld stopping saying americans , AMERICA is a CONTINENT with many countries. We do not belong USA. So, USA is a country not all the continent, thats all.
OP3NGL 1 year ago
Fat chinned fucker , i think he,d think twice about what he is saying if some drone dropped a bomb on his family
lifelessworld2012 1 year ago
And, I call out the racists at Gerhardt for they are just that~!!!
wingedlightning 1 year ago
AS an American Patriot I WILL NEVER STOP saying what is the truth or speaking about the crimes that those coward racists enact in the name of right & left wing religious nutz...which only for the $ to make military complex do all they do.
wingedlightning 1 year ago 2
By many racists who happen to staff the positions within
the U.S. military & positions responsible for the use of un
lawful cowardly attacks not just upon civial targets in
afgan., iraq, but airliners' such as the Brazilian one...even
American citizens private aircraft such as John F. Kennedy
Jr.'s.
wingedlightning 1 year ago
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Government & private military industrialists...such as a Burbank, California company named " GERHARDTS "...the latter of which makes the components for the ' Global Hawks ', ' Predators ', and newer variants of the un-manned aerial vehicles which are used by the U.S. military as well as intellegnce communities.
To do evil~!!!
wingedlightning 1 year ago
Government & private military industrialists...such as a Burbank, California company named " GERHARDTS "...the latter of which makes the components for the ' Global Hawks ', ' Predators ', and newer variants of the un-manned aerial vehicles which are used by the U.S. military as well as intellegnce communities.
To do evil~!!!
wingedlightning 1 year ago
Government & private military industrialists...such as a Burbank, California company named " GERHARDTS "...the latter of which makes the components for the ' Global Hawks ', ' Predators ', and newer variants of the un-manned aerial vehicles which are used by the U.S. military as well as intellegnce communities.
To do evil~!!!
wingedlightning 1 year ago
Government & private military industrialists...such as a Burbank, California company named " GERHARDTS "...the latter of which makes the components for the ' Global Hawks ', ' Predators ', and newer variants of the un-manned aerial vehicles which are used by the U.S. military as well as intellegnce communities.
To do evil~!!!
wingedlightning 1 year ago
Reason it's that way in this country is because it's next to fucking impossible to control these groups. It's not like we haven't tried. The west had David Hume and Bertrand Russell and all they get is shit from organizations like the Roman Catholic Church carrying out a child rape cartel.Oh, you're all a bunch of relativists. Oh, why can't you believe Jesus.
This is the situation you're in, I suggest you start learning how to deal with it. It's getting tougher with these fucking "faith schools"
Redfingers 1 year ago
Such as the June 1st 2009 downing the Air France airbus with 228 - people aboard simply for the purpose of reversing France's previous anti Iraq, Afganistan support of the wars.
Now, since that innocent 228 persons...France has sent both $ & troops...forced to do so by an embarrancing attack by the U.S. military/intellegence community.
wingedlightning 1 year ago
The attacks of un-armed civilians is not what I as an American citizen agree with or in anyway support. Regardless of the intelligence communities efforts to discredit American citizens for speaking up about the truth.
wingedlightning 1 year ago
He's just angling for Stevens J.A. Supreme Court seat. This sounds like a job application.
FenchCJ 1 year ago
Terrorists that shoot Americans soldiers and plot terrorist attacks on western civilians.
I'm sorry, if there's some cockbag who shot at us before, he's going to do it again.
Suffice to say, in my view, that should be the condition for US drone attacks. But we should not have an arbitrary standard that precludes the use of drone attacks completely. We're talking about people that run around with RPGs and AKs screaming "Allahu Ahkbar" and commit hit and run strikes against coalition forces...
Redfingers 1 year ago
1. Terrorism is crime.
2. Everyone is innocent untill proven guilty in a fair trial.
3. The US is not at war with Afghanistan or Pakistan.
4. War can only be declared to states and their governments.
5. Al Quaida is not a government, nor the military of a gouvernment.
6. Following 1, 4 and 5 suspected terrorists are civilians.
Conclusion: The drone attacks are the assasination of civillians, suspected to have commited or to plan commiting crime. That is murder by all international standards.
13otany13ay 1 year ago
@13otany13ay
Exactly. Interesting, Gen Mullen has said the military will not invade the sovereignty of Pakistan - which is where the drone attacks have taken place - especially since Obama took over. The US is using the CIA (police) to carry out the drone attacks. Has the military taken part in any of the targetings outside Afghanistan (or Iraq)? As far as I know, this is a CIA program, which still makes it murder.
MiranUT 1 year ago
Sophistry. I'm pretty sure that if we were on the other end of attacks by sophisticated hunter-killer robots we'd regard it as horrendously immoral. I don't think it makes us a better nation at all. I think it just makes us uglier.
ananiasacts 1 year ago 3
@ananiasacts
In World War 2 the Germans executed suspected Soviet partisans without so much as a moment of hesitation.
And....ask yourself for a moment....if given the chance, would you assassinate Adolf Hitler?
The other alternative is to carpet bomb the Middle East, or send ground troops to walk through villages infested with terror cells so they become walking targets. Sound good?
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers So, the US does what Nazi Germany did?
13otany13ay 1 year ago
@13otany13ay
Actually, the US dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as dropping thousands of incendiary bombs on the city of Dresden, amounting to tens of thousands of casualties.
Now, we're sending unmanned drones to kill suspected terrorist leaders.
Which do you prefer?
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers Wether I prefer bombing suspected criminals with nukes or with TNT? Here is an idea: Have the security forces of Pakistan arrest them like the FBI arrested the members of the Hutaree Militia. You know, do it the way the law prescribes.
13otany13ay 1 year ago
@13otany13ay
And if they shoot at you?
You are authorized to use deadly force, no?
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers Who shot at whom? The bombed terrorists shot at security forces who where'nt there to arrest them? Or do you mean the other uninvolved civilians shot at security forces who wherent there? What are you talking about?
Doesnt matter, because the international law is clear in that matter - its murder.
13otany13ay 1 year ago
@13otany13ay
Targeting and killing an armed combatant is murder?
Then holy shit, there must have been a lot of murders throughout the wars of history.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers How can they be combatants when the US is not at war with the government of the country they operate in? The US is not at war with Iraq, nor Afghanistan nor Pakistan nor any other state. Thus they can not be combatants. Therefore terrorists are suspected criminals and must be prosecuted in accordance with the law of the country they are located in.
13otany13ay 1 year ago
@13otany13ay
Clearly they have to be governments to be violent. It's a requirement.
What if....say....we have a nation controlled by the Taliban, in which they grant asylum to the terrorists, while supporting their operations? What if we're talking about a nation like Saudi Arabia that just flat out doesn't give a shit about stopping terrorism, and in fact is sympathetic towards it?
We're not talking about people being targeted because they're wearing a fucking burka, we're talking about
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers
Irrelevant.
13otany13ay 1 year ago
@13otany13ay
Yes, clearly human rights violations don't matter.
Oh wait!
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers As I said ....must be prosecuted in accordance with the law of the country they are located in.
13otany13ay 1 year ago
@13otany13ay
And if the laws of the country they are located in include aiding and abetting terrorist cells in their efforts to kill thousands of US citizens or commit human rights violations as a matter of course?
I assume international law takes a modicum of precedent? Okay, now that that's established, I assume you're going to tell me how we go about enforcing those laws as members of the UN Security Council?
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers
Non of this is the case.
13otany13ay 1 year ago
@13otany13ay
Humor me, you cunt.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, I just disagree with you. Just because we're capable of it, and believe we are right to stop them, doesn't give us the right to kill them in my opinion. The problem is the enormous discrepancy in both knowledge and power between the tow sides. There just isn't anything a two year old can do to an adult that warrants the use of deadly force.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
17 of these "2 year olds" hijacked and flew a commercial airplane into the World Trade Center, murdering 3,000 civilians.
Watch your step, motherfucker. There's a lot that a belligerent or terrorist can do to a nation like this one. Rig a bomb up in the subway, shoot people in the streets, drive trucks into buildings, etc. They're not fucking retarded. They realize that simply mining fields, strapping IEDs to cars, or suicide bombing has a tendency to kill people.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, We can't fight children by behaving like them. They are just a cult of adult children, living in a fantasy world dominated by an ancient mythology. By labeling it a war we gave them far more credibility than they deserve. They should be treated more like people so psychotic that it's worth keeping them alive so that we can find out how they got that way. I think the approach we have taken is exactly what they want. How do you fight that which thrives on oppression? Outwit it.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
A good start would be painting a big target on your chest, throwing on some jackboots, and goosestepping through their streets like we're currently doing.
That or we could allow them to go run away to some sympathetic Arab nation that would give them asylum while they plot aggressive terrorist attacks on our nation.
You do realize that these are the same people that killed Theo van Gogh, issued fatwahs against Salman Rushdie, and threaten to kill Danish cartoonists...right?
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, Yes, and they're playing us like the proverbial fiddle to make their point. That the west is decadent and morally bankrupt. If was us who allowed them to make this a religious issue. I think most of the stuff we've done over the past decade has only served to encourage more people to hate us. And the fact that such a tiny group of people can induce us to spend such enormous amounts to fight them is proof that their strategy will work. Hopefully we'll wise up.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
Here's a hint, it is a religious issue. Many Muslim nations mutilate female genitalia, commit human rights violations as a matter of course, then demand, in belligerent fashion, respect for all of this. By respect, they mean that they should be able to kill anyone that peacefully criticizes their religion/regimes, like Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (her name was pinned by a knife to Theo van Gogh's chest) and impose Shariah universally over all our western court systems.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, I believe most muslims would disagree that they're hoping for a sharia universe. It is only a religious issue to someone delusional enough to believe that religion, or lack of it, is a sufficient reason to commit violence. It's not exactly a group that America belongs in. I'm an anti-theist, I think religion has much bigger problems than this, but this isn't one of them. This is just genuinely pathological assholes and the damage they can do with their religion and our cooperation.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
Then we're agreed that people who mutilate female genitals without their consent, throw battery acid in their faces for trying to get an education, and stone them for the crime of adultery should be prosecuted as criminals?
Or do you think ALLAHUUU AHKBAR KILL THE AMERICAN SCUM!!!?
I don't know, but as I recall, it wasn't the United States that flew a commercial airplane into the tallest building in the Arabian peninsula. So I'd say maybe it wasn't us that made this a religious iss
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, It takes two sides to have a fight. If one is being unreasonable, it does not legitimize that position. It has no bearing of any kind on what the other party does. We are responsible for our actions, not them.
It is because I realize that this is a religious issue to them that I believe our only choice to set truly 'god-like' standards for ourselves. We should treat them as if we believe that they honestly believe they are doing god's work. That doesn't allow killing them.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
And if an individual murders someone, does that affect how you treat that individual? Might that legitimize certain actions, like throwing them in jail?
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, of course. I'm not saying that we should greet them with flowers. I'm saying we should treat them as if they're sick. The real battle going on isn't on any battlefield. It's a battle between ideologies over their ability to guild cultures in wholesome directions. We had a chance to make it clear that secularism is honestly morally superior and completely blew it because we knew we had a "right" to defend ourselves. If we win every such battle we'll still lost the real war.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
They are fanatics, it's not like they give a shit. We have these people domestically. I don't know if you live in the United States, but we have these characters all over the Christian demographic, call themselves the "moral majority."
The difference is they don't commit crimes. It doesn't matter how insane you are. We allow Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps to say whatever they want. We don't "treat them like they're sick," we facepalm and move on.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, they depend on the support of large numbers of people. That's who we're really at war with. The ordinary muslims who don't see any reason to out the terrorists because they think we're scum. We had everything going for us, their kids loved our music, clothes, freedom, etc. All we had to do was behave like adults, and instead we get into a bar room brawl. I just think it's a recipe for failure they're depending on. We can either wise up and switch strategies, or play their game.
ananiasacts 1 year ago 2
@ananiasacts
No no no. We're at war with terrorists, not with some dude who believes a bunch of bullshit. That's a war we will NEVER, EVER win. You think the WoT was fucking stupid? Try a culture war, sweet Jesus Christ.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers, yes, but terrorists are made from dudes who believe a bunch of bullshit when the demon they were warned about comes over to shoot up their homeland. The only part of that cycle we can control is to avoid behaving as their leaders have predicted and resisting the urge to get revenge. The small number of terrorists aren't going anywhere. The best way to stop them is to resist giving them the means to make more. We can't do that by killing them when that is what they're counting on.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@Redfingers yep you've got to acknowledge the way any type of religious nut in any country goes from being normal to being violent- it only occurs on such a large scale as we see now with a whole part of the world's starting to CHOOSE to enlist in these groups because its what they think its right, or that they dont have another job or real path in life to take. any kind of nut is funnelled into their habits by cultural and economic factors. the US can be more intelligent by chopping the root.
tyrannicoystercult 1 year ago
@tyrannicoystercult
You mean like how we successfully "chopped the root" at home? What with our country having some of the highest religious demographics in the entire world, with a politically active conservative Christian minority electing the majority of our leaders? With the Hutaru Christian militias and the KKK? Get the fuck out of here.
This is a free country. You can believe what ever psycho babble you want to, only thing you can't do is criminal shit.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers
Hey fucktard! I suggest you do the killing first. Then you can pat yourself on the back for it and over time maybe you'll understand! So, go fuck yourself with your "collateral damage" crap!
gizmo2084 1 year ago
@gizmo2084
As in send remote bombs? I wouldn't have any trouble doing that at all. Are you asking me to fight? Fight what, they're not a standing army. It'd be a waste of my time to go over to Iraq and walk around the streets with a big target on my back like an idiot.
Anyway, regarding collateral damage, I think it's lovely that you're so against targeted killings but collateral damage apparently isn't an issue for you? Would you prefer some more ruined buildings and dead children?
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers
Is the "war" being fought in self defense? Or is it just revenge for being caught with one's pants down?
Who claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks? I know bin Laden was accused of "inspiring" them. But who planned and funded the attacks?
From everything I've read, the last thing Saudi Arabia OR the USA wants is to have bin Laden in a public trial. Why? Dead men tell no tales. Another reason to follow the rule of law instead of stooping to the level of terrorists.
MiranUT 1 year ago
@Redfingers
Have you ever heard of tear gas?
MiranUT 1 year ago
@MiranUT
Noticeably less useful when people are shooting at you.
Tear gas is only effective when breaching a surrounded compound, which generally speaking doesn't happen in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Do you suggest that we send some idiot in a bulletproof vest charging at a Taliban stronghold cooking a teargas nade so he can toss it in a random window?
Redfingers 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
Take that to its logical conclusion. I'm not on the other end (at least not yet) and I do consider it immoral. Within the "just war" moral framework, it's immoral. (see 13ony12ay's post)
MiranUT 1 year ago
@MiranUT, not sure what you meant by "Take that to its logical conclusion." If it's my suggestion that we shouldn't kill them, but consider them victims of a bogus ideology, I think it means they're genuinely innocent by reason of insanity. Is that what you meant? Frankly, I do believe that pretty much anyone that honestly believes they need to kill someone else to please their god is close enough to insane to be treated that way. Willingly erring on the side of kindness is just common sense.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
I'm in full agreement with you. My apologies if my reply was ambiguous.
MiranUT 1 year ago