tell me this.Why should we have to pay more taxes because the wellfare people dont want to get off their ass and go to work?welcome to the real world.get up go to work and get your own healthcare.
The 50 million without coverage are already working. Besides your Taco Bell paycheck won't be taxed. People making $250K a year and up will pay. You've never read the reform all on your own, have you? Admit it. You argue without having read it. Typical
This is where the bill stands right now in the Senate. Read the New York Times from yesterday. Google it. It explains very well what Reid won't say. The rich, we hope, will pay for subsidies, but voters would be stuck with the rest and it would be a big bill.
I want health care for all citizens, permanent residents (if that's what the voters want) and their children, but what the Senate is working on now is not going to solve the lack of insurance for the uninsured.
No doubt the tax will show up on your paperwork, but because we wont have to pay the insane prices the private sector charges now is will result in the middle class breaking even and the rich will be taxed to fund the rest of it.
Obamas initial reform bill would have covered all. This current bill is inadequate but thats because the right wing Dems and the GOP are dragging their feet. Water downed reform is reform none the less. This way when the current proposal fails to make a difference Obama can point to the right Dems and GOP and say its their fault.
54% of Americans did not want Obama's bill. They need to cover the uninsured
& stop the pre-existing clauses, and the corporate bonuses. Medicare is a poor system. The government cannot afford the 90 million baby boomers who retire soon-- afford the medicare or the social security. They want more taxes to pay debts. They will not control ins because ins funds politicians. Voters deserve better. I have insurance, and I am not rich, but I would give money to pay for those who are uninsured.
so you like showing your IQ by trying to insult people?most of the 50 million are on welfare already.Even Taco Bell and other fast foods offer ins.I actually respect those people that work there they do what they have to.Why should the 250k earners have to pay for my ins.or yours im able bodied able to work.what about you
What a good little zombie barfing up the boilerplate the rich man fed you. The rich take more from the trough so they owe more to it. I know they pay more than me or you now but it's still not their full due.
atleast they work for what they get.I just dont believe in taxing them simply because they succeded.Actually no one has fed me anything.I take a look at things and make up my own mind and put the blame where it belongs.on the people who vote for the party and not the person.Both parties are to blame.all the way back to woodrow wilson
Rich people could not be rich without society. They take more from society so they owe more back. Why should they pay coach ticket prices yet fly first class?
If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept it all to themselves.
I tried to go the GM and tell them their trucks are worth $5.00, and after handing them the money they would not give me the keys. Free market says seller sets the sale price, right? Why doesn't this apply to my labor?
Where is the cost containment the public option had ? what about anyone under 55 ? Progressive should be angry ! I hope no progressives support this bill with out a public option . I also hope progressive hold their support for any blue dog Dem's in 2010 .
Renamed it to what ? Let's get any B.S. through and trick us liberals into thinking it's real reform ? There's no god damn reason liberals should have dropped the public option . What good is dropping medicare from65 to 55 ? And I heard it only applies to the poor with out insurance .
They arent dropping it, they have just renamed it. I wish they would just expand medicare to cover people who cant afford it and pass a law say insurance companies could not deny anyone with pre-existing conditions and this would go along way and be better than a total government take-over of healthcare.
I'm not so upset with the govt not being able to run it, but there should be some legislation to not allow insurance companies to steamroll over us. I wouldnt be surprised if the ins companies were all working together. smdh at all the crooked people in power...
Republicans denounced the proposal, saying it would add new financial obligations to a program that could not afford its existing commitments.
If the Titanic is sinking, the last thing you want to do is to put Grandma and more of your family on the boat, said Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa.
Medicare is not a good health plan, Mr. Francis said. Even with coverage of prescription drugs, he said, it still doesnt have catastrophic protection.
In response to questions... Senate leaders provided additional details of the proposal announced hastily on Tuesday by the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada:
¶The new Medicare option would be available only to individuals, not to families. In a household consisting 0f three only the man would be eligible for Medicare.
According to the Congressional Budget Office, a family of four earning $54,000 in 2016, when the health legislation is in effect, would be eligible for a subsidy of $10,100 to help the cost of insurance under the health legislation being debated ... Senate. By then, one of the most popular federal plans, a nationwide Blue Cross and Blue Shield policy, is projected to cost more than $20,000.
That could leave the family earning $54,000, with monthly premium costs of more than $825.
Senate Democrats have been careful to say that their proposal is not intended to offer exactly the same benefits that members of Congress have. In many cases, federal subsidies would cover a smaller share of the premium than what the government contributes to the cost of health insurance for federal employees.
The Democrats proposal would also allow some people ages 55 to 64 to buy in to Medicare, starting in 2011. That could cost about $7,600 a year per person or $15,200 for a couple, according to a budget office analysis of an earlier version of the concept. No subsidies would be available until 2014.
It's a shame there aren't Republicans like Harding and Democrats Cleveland anymore. At least in those days they only dealt with things they were supposed to-foreign policy and international trade! Today its gone berserk!
Now there is one party, with two factions arguing over what the founders intended to be state functions (marriage, social policy, criminal law)
If you beleive that it's out your a moron, there is no way these power grabbing zealots will not let this go,they can say what ever they want,one way or another it will be in there.Can't wait to get my rules list to live by,or thry will deny me care.
This is what happens when we allow government to mange healthcare. And then when it backfires, the left asks for more government management? If we left healthcare to the free market we wouldn't even hear of things like people getting dropped or denied coverage, because they would have to compete for your business and your satisfaction.
They wouldn't be. The health care companies do it now though. It will become prevalent in the near future. They already tell you that you should join a gym, quite smoking and don't ride a motorcycle. They dictate your weight and your recreational activities. They dictate which doctors/hospitals you can use. The premiums are their instructions.
They have let 5 Senators basically decide for the entire country. This is a sham. Blue Cross Whores, all of them with Lieberman,the biggest one of all.
Blue Cross wins again and has no reason now to EVER lower their outrageous rates that are estimated to be overpriced by 65%, as they use the rest for profits,CEO pay and lawyers. This is outrageous.
Medicare for those 55, I guess I will now be covered but I feel for those of you who are 30 or 40, who will now die or go bankrupt from Blue Cross.
The only reason it's in debates now is the $300 million obama payed for just one vote. then tures around and said that she would not vote for a bill that included an entirely new government insurance plan. And went on to say that if they give her another $500 million she would vote for a government ran healthcare insurance.
Sen. Mary L. Landrieu (D-La.), is the best senator money can buy.
But hey they;ld sent it back to the house and put it right back in. Anything to keep it moving.
Health Company millions (from premiums) given to members of Congress insured we couldn't have Universal Health Care, but there was some hope that at least The Public Option might be passed - but now it's tossed out the window.
This is fucking funny. They're giving us the option of getting into the Federal healthcare plan, but they're looking at hefty premium increases next year. Individual coverage under the most popular plan is going up 15 percent. That's some reform. I think these mother fuckers forgot what we're trying to do here. Well, at least the Tea-Baggers will be happy.
Yeah - there's a God alright - and he's right on Wall Street. You just handed our healthcare to Bernie Madoff and the rest of the million dollar players that supply the campaign contributions to the Republicans. Why you think the Wall Street gang is more responsible than the Government is beyond me.
I don't even give a shit anymore! I'm just glad the public option is gone. Now, hopefully they will vote this whole bill down. I would have a wet dream if that happens.
Yeah - Well, I guess if you like paying double what every other industrialized country pays for healthcare - it's all fine and good. There's a reason why we're 37th on the list, and don't even have better healthcare than Saudi "freakin" Arabia. The propaganda pushers win again.
Yes, you're right. I forgot Saudi Arabia is such a poor country. I will proudly pay double for innovation and medical advancements then paying for lazy people's health insurance.
By the way - are the millions of people that are now out of work on your lazy people's list? And all the people that can't find a job because of ouitsourcing - are they on the Lazy people's list too? And what about the people that don't even have healthcare at their jobs - fuck'em? And the people that pay out the ass because they don't have a company to help with the cost - hell with them too?
First of all, no one in my direct family even had a job while I was battling cancer. There is a thing called COBRA that will work for a due amount of time. People who don't have healthcare at their jobs need to find a way to buy it. We live in America, land of greed and excessive materials. You are being naive, and frankly repeat many of the same talking points as defenders of this travesty of a bill.
When was the last time you saw a team of scientists working on medical advancements and new drugs in your everyday hospital? All the morons do is ask if you want to be the next guinea pig. And I'm talking about providing healthcare to a countries citizens. Shit - one time when I walked into the ER when I didn't have coverage, they wouldn't even give me a shot of Novocain for an abscess that had me on my knees. You get minimal care. But if you have insurance - they'll milk ya for every dime.
I understand not everyone has the same amount of knowledge about the medical field as a prospective doctor in medical school. However, many of the countries you are citing from WHO's report, offers little to no money towards medical innovation. As it stands now, the USA is 1st in the world in medicinal breakthroughs, with Japan coming in at second. This bill will severely cut funding and will cause these institutions from future cures and preventative drugs. I do agree with you on the insurance.
We can have both. Isn't this supposed to be a representative democracy? We can still have the research. We just need to reign in the costs of care. Research doesn't have to be neglected. We just have to make sure that the money is going were we want it to.
Perhaps this could become a legit discussion. Could we get rid of the right/left talking points and actually solve the real issues?
No, this is supposed to be a socialist state. Haven't you heard the news? Unfortunately, that would all be great. But so would fairies, unicorns, and little blue people named "Smurfs". So, I choose to live in the real world why you live in the fantasy one you hope the US one day will become. I bid you good day. (tips fedora and walks off into the sunset).
Work harder the battle cry of the clueless. 50 million Americans have no coverage because they are gouged by the HMOs. We pay $8,000 a year for 37th ranked health care. In Canada they spend $3,000 a year and they get 30th ranked care. You should pull your head out of you ass before any more posts.
This is what happens when you try to reach out to the Nazi right. Thanks to President Clinton I'm 100% covered through the VA so I enjoy coverage all Americans should get. Next stop - 2nd Amendment.
This stuff never goes smooth or all at once. When you consider the GOP's "fix" was to steal our right to go bankrupt this is massive progress. Obama closed tax shelters in Europe, he's hiking up taxes on the rich, the FDA now regulates tobacco and will tax the FUCK out of it to stop people from smoking, the worthless war in Iraq is all but over, It's way more positive than negitive. Next target gun control.
But I'm not a part of the GOP. I never have been. I did not support most of Bush's policies and I don't support most of Obama's policies. Some are fine, most are not.
It's a process. First we should tax churches as the businesses they are. Take said taxes and invest them in public education. This will kill off the never ending supply of right wing working class. After that the society will self correct.
Not a bad idea to tax churches. Charge sales tax on products they sell. If they are actually non-profit, we don't tax. I like it, except we throw more money at a failing education system. I propose we fix that first.
Solution: Screw no child left behind. That is the prime reason we don't have any child get ahead and thus the reason the US is falling behind in the sciences. And don't press for a college education so much. You don't need a BS to run a backhoe.
The money is the fix for the education system. The right wing needs a poorly educated working class to vote for them. That's why they attack education spending but waste billions on our over bloated DOD.
I agree that the DOD is over funded, but explain why most poorly educated working class vote for the left wing? answer: handouts If you just throw money at the problem without fixing it, you get the stimulus fiasco.
Oh and free market does apply to your labor. If you set the price too high, no one will buy it. The lower it goes, the more companies want to buy.
Everyone I know who votes left does so becuase they want the majority of America represented. Somthing the gop doesn't do. Free market does not apply. Go on strike and see how long it takes the right wing to force you back to work. Free market is indeed a scam. If the last 8 years didn't wake you up - nothing will.
So they vote left because they are mindless, not because they actually believe in those ideals? interesting.
Free market does apply. The only problem is both parties don't want it to apply, they just say they do. Neither party is looking out for the good of the people, they are looking for power. Nothing else. If dems really want "health care reform", they would go through with it. But they don't. They want power. That is it. Same as the GOP.
If that's the message you got from my post it would explain why you believe murdering 400,000 Iraqis is helping them, and trickle down (aka shoving money up the rich mans ass) helps the working man. After a couples of years of paying your own bills I suspect youll wake up from your Fox News wet dream and join us in the real world.
Wow. You must be living in a dream world. I never supported either war unlike your left wing idols. Unfortunately, I will never pay my own bills if the left wing has anything to do with it. I will just be a leech off of the system and as the left wing continues, it will become worse and worse until I cannot exist without the government's paycheck every month who I then give to men who can't keep more than 10 cents of every dollar I give.
You remind me of a story my Grandpa once told me. He said everyone has a right to speak their mind, but just becuase you hear noise coming from a hole on another person - it doesn't mean they're "saying" anything. That's you in a nut shell my sad little nit wit - you just keep farting away.
Wow, you are worse at insults than at logic, or listening for that matter. Sorry, but your red herring will not deter. If you follow your proposed policies through, we will eventually destroy the middle class creating a super rich corporatism bureaucracy and prole class. Think separation of classes is bad now, it will be worse. The upper 5% will own 95% of the wealth, easily.
I do speak out against him because his loyalty is to the corporations, not the people. Our govt has lost its fear of the people. We have lost so much freedom due to past presidents and this one is no different. If you are truly willing to give up more of your freedom to the system in exchange for some temporary security, you deserve neither. When this program fails, and it will, you will be entirely dependent on the govt and they will try and take even more and they will say the same things.
The right-wing has only recently been convinced that the thought of choice/competition with health coverage is relevant. Thanks to them, we can look forward to more bankruptcies due to medical expenses in the future. This really sucks because they are also my family, friends, neighbors and coworkers.
I didn't go bankrupt but did pay $119,000 for my doctor's bill, $85,000 to my lawyer, and I got $15,000 for any future medical expenses in my auto-pedestrian accident settlement. I was just starting a new company and didn't have any insurance ... lost help from the State of Florida when I hired an attorney ... now, I have a lot of pre-existing conditions! -- Also, agree about taking insurance decisions from employers because their pick based on costs only not employee benefit.
Two party system! Democrats and Republicans LOL jaja The elephant and the donkey are in bed together. LOL An the American people are the offsprings LMAO
Unless it was taken out on the senate floor via a vote. It is still in the bill. And is a just a ploy. if it was admended and taken out today, they end up sending it back to the house where the house Dem's will just put it right back in.
Now, time to make purchasing medical insurance MANDATORY under fines or arrest...even if you can't afford it. "Win Win" for Insurance companies and their "Big Bankster" buddies.
We must connect with French / Japanese / Canadian / Korean medicare insurance companies. We have to create fund and Internet warehouses to by-pass monopoly insurance, medicine and health care and create our own globalization. This administration doesn't have confidence on us the people who just elected them eleven months ago. Call and protest IRS that we won't have tax money for a long while.
The bill is still a nightmare. It still offers a government overseen private option. We have to cut federal spending, not increase it! We have to cut taxes, not increase them! The only viable way out is to endure this recession, its part of the correction. We have been propping up a phony economy for too long and been delaying the inevitable. The sooner the dollar collapses the better, it teach Washington some fiscal responsibility. Maybe they'll learn they can't solve social problems.
They are trying to solve THEIR problems, not ours. I guess you can say they have a social problem; they are insincere: they only want our $ and votes. We will find out later that the help they gave us is no help at all.
You have a point, also, in what you say about them/social problems.
I knew those sissy-ass Dems would not pull the trigger and pass health care reform. They have the majority in both Houses, and the Lib Prez to sign it......AND IT STILL COULD NOT PASS!!!!! Me thinks the Left was more worried about being re-elected, than passing socilaized medicine. You libs are pathetic.
the states have health for the poor.most Hospitals have programs that people go to if they cant pay their bill.For instance Spahn Care in Texas goes by your income if you dont have ins.okla. has sooner care lol.this bill was a power and money grab
lmao.europe is broke.Britain has had socialised medicine for 15years now .then they come over here for operations.western europe?they are broke.just like theU.S. france was having riots lol yeh id rather be at the bottom and not have to pay for someone elses illness ley them get a job and pay their own way.
The WHO's rankingof 35 is based on the most irrelevant things, including mortality rates and patient satisfaction. Of course people are happy with free care! What proof do you have the quality of life grows under big government? I know France and Canada has yearly doctor walkouts and strikes, so for them quality of life is not better. The only way to make quality of life better is more economic freedom and sound money.
The Democrats inclusive across-the-aisle philosophy has destroyed our options and we see now that they don't have the backbone to ignore corporate republicans and do what needs to be done.
Liberals deserve every epithet the right-wing fruitcakes heap on them.
This bill is now just a watered down mess and a victory for The Republicans and their Blue Cross Whores.
We need to immediatley start wok on a new bill,Medicare for All.
I'm glad I will now get medicare but it's not right that that everyone doesn't get it if they choose.
Blue Cross now has no reason to EVER lower their rip-off rates. With a public option at least they would have had to cut their rates in half to compete as that is how much they waste on just lawyers to screw people.
If I were a crooked politician, I would allow monopolies to run the govt., I would bail out the monopolies with tax-payer funds and then I would complain that the monopolies not having competitive pricing. As a cooked politician I would then claim that "we" tax-payers should pay for a govt. insurance scam to compete withe the finacial and insurance monopolies we just bailed out.
If I were a crook, I'd be eligible to run for a govt. position.
900 Billion dollars will not raise taxes or add one penny to the deficit. Not a penny. It's only 900 BILLION. Big deal that's chump change to the retards on the hill. It's not their money, why should they care?
I do hope the blue collar Republicans like their unemployment. Without a solid health care reform bill, we're going to continue to lose manufacturing jobs.
Mexico and Taiwan both have forms of universal health care in place. This is right up your ally though. The Chinese did, but it was far too underfunded. It would seem that their system is going through upheaval. They never had enough hospitals. Who do you think has more sway there, the people or big business! Who has the cash to 'buy' government?
Small business here would benefit from a good universal plan. Half assed efforts only make it worse.
and look at both countries.their standerd of living.go across the border into mexico and look at the cardboard cities built next to the factories that companies of the world built.they dont make 1/4 of what we make.yeah they have universal healyhcare because they have nothing else.Thats why the Mexicans keep coming here
Yeah, they'd both be greatly improved if they weren't being run over by outside money! There are jobs coming in, but there is no real control over the businesses that open doors in those countries. They need better labor laws. International labor laws.
I blame people like you for the problems that exist in this area. As I grow older, I realize that the 'free-market' cry is a cover for exploitation by the organizations with real money behind them.
you can blame me all you want.Its people like you that supports the deportation of our jobs and the exploitation of outher countries.universal anything amounts to socialism which is the precurser to communism.history has proved those forms of govt doesnt work.a company that moves out if this country can stay out along with their products.we have everything here to do/mahe the same thing.The globalist are behind most of the problems we are having now
Thank you for quoting Glenn Beck and Michael Savage. Setting up a Universal health care system doesn't mean we're going to a communist system of government. The argument has become very simplistic and transparent.
Perhaps we should fully privatize the nations defense, police and transportation infrastructure?
actually that was a quote from jason fulton.lol.socialised medicine socialised anything doesnt work.people are pulling their own teethe in Britain.waiting 6months for a operation.
That is the same crap I've heard on the right-wing talk shows for almost a year now. So you worded it a bit differently.
We aren't talking about welfare, which for the record, needs revision. Actual welfare is something we give way too freely. Especially here in WI. That results in quite a few people coming up from Chicago and Rockford, IL. We're talking about financial security in health care alone. This issue has become a real issue since I started paying my own way after HS.
i hardly watch the talk shows im going from what friends have told me that live in europe.theirs alot of things wrong with the system.welfare and healthcare.changing it isnt fixing it thats what this is all about.We need to fix it.not nationalise it.form a system based on Texas system.if you dont have ins.fill out the paper work job info.and they go based on your income.i emailed that proposal 2 the WH.and was ignored.Obamas like a kid not his way he thros a fit
If they base your insurance premium on your income, isn't it being covered then by someone making more money?
We, then there's debate from Europe also. I have family in Europe. They are fine with the system. They lived here years ago. The costs aren't rising as fast for them as for us. Either way, someone is wasting our money. Get it away from our employers though. That's not helping.
actually its called Spahn Care in Texas.the hospital covers whats left over.the govt has nothing to do with it.we have sooner care in okla.which is based off of medicare.and its killing our budget.the hosp.have a system here to help pay the bill if we cant.the doctors bills go up thats one reason our ins,goes up.the docs have been overcharging for years.thats 1 prob.employers shouldnt have to pay for our health i agree with ya on that
The doctors want the higher paying specialist titles. We desperately need general practitioners though. One reason for that is the pay. Well, take care of the schooling costs for someone serving 5-8 (?) years as a GP. As far as law suits go, that has to be dealt with. But, it's not as bad as what we may have thought. The doctors are getting gouged on that one, hence us. Medication? Not enough space!
The quality of our health care system is virtually irrelevant when we cannot afford it.
Kill the 3000 pg illegal HC TAX & JAIL Trojan Horse Mandate bill nobody wants..
Kill the bill..
Vote em out..
nobody wants it..
hadenufnow 2 years ago
yaaaaay
sold out again
corporate state for the win
/sarcasm
scarletletterman84 2 years ago
Google the New York Times article from yesterday. It explains the current bill very well.
mdryden02 2 years ago
i agree some do need the help.then its a drain on the system when we have people in the welfare system for years.3years should be the max.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
@jasonfulton, I agree.
diah4 2 years ago
this has been a pretty good debate.wish people would open their eyes and take a ;ook at whats really goin on
jasonfulton 2 years ago
tell me this.Why should we have to pay more taxes because the wellfare people dont want to get off their ass and go to work?welcome to the real world.get up go to work and get your own healthcare.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
The 50 million without coverage are already working. Besides your Taco Bell paycheck won't be taxed. People making $250K a year and up will pay. You've never read the reform all on your own, have you? Admit it. You argue without having read it. Typical
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
The government will not pay all. It's 840. for a family of four for Blue Cross.with income of 50,000. Below 565 pay 7600 for medicare.
mdryden02 2 years ago
It will be paid for by the rich, anything else you say is a lie to try to stop us from getting good health care.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
This is where the bill stands right now in the Senate. Read the New York Times from yesterday. Google it. It explains very well what Reid won't say. The rich, we hope, will pay for subsidies, but voters would be stuck with the rest and it would be a big bill.
I want health care for all citizens, permanent residents (if that's what the voters want) and their children, but what the Senate is working on now is not going to solve the lack of insurance for the uninsured.
mdryden02 2 years ago
No doubt the tax will show up on your paperwork, but because we wont have to pay the insane prices the private sector charges now is will result in the middle class breaking even and the rich will be taxed to fund the rest of it.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
Obamas initial reform bill would have covered all. This current bill is inadequate but thats because the right wing Dems and the GOP are dragging their feet. Water downed reform is reform none the less. This way when the current proposal fails to make a difference Obama can point to the right Dems and GOP and say its their fault.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
54% of Americans did not want Obama's bill. They need to cover the uninsured
& stop the pre-existing clauses, and the corporate bonuses. Medicare is a poor system. The government cannot afford the 90 million baby boomers who retire soon-- afford the medicare or the social security. They want more taxes to pay debts. They will not control ins because ins funds politicians. Voters deserve better. I have insurance, and I am not rich, but I would give money to pay for those who are uninsured.
mdryden02 2 years ago
so you like showing your IQ by trying to insult people?most of the 50 million are on welfare already.Even Taco Bell and other fast foods offer ins.I actually respect those people that work there they do what they have to.Why should the 250k earners have to pay for my ins.or yours im able bodied able to work.what about you
jasonfulton 2 years ago
What a good little zombie barfing up the boilerplate the rich man fed you. The rich take more from the trough so they owe more to it. I know they pay more than me or you now but it's still not their full due.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
atleast they work for what they get.I just dont believe in taxing them simply because they succeded.Actually no one has fed me anything.I take a look at things and make up my own mind and put the blame where it belongs.on the people who vote for the party and not the person.Both parties are to blame.all the way back to woodrow wilson
jasonfulton 2 years ago
Rich people could not be rich without society. They take more from society so they owe more back. Why should they pay coach ticket prices yet fly first class?
If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept it all to themselves.
- Lane Kirkland
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
what have they taken from you or me?what we call rich people that ive seen work in between 60 to 70hrs a week to get that way and stay that way.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
my labor & money.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
were you not payed for your labor?
jasonfulton 2 years ago
I tried to go the GM and tell them their trucks are worth $5.00, and after handing them the money they would not give me the keys. Free market says seller sets the sale price, right? Why doesn't this apply to my labor?
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
lmao.only in some cases.lmao.that was a good one
jasonfulton 2 years ago
Welfare is a problem, but some DO need help.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Where is the cost containment the public option had ? what about anyone under 55 ? Progressive should be angry ! I hope no progressives support this bill with out a public option . I also hope progressive hold their support for any blue dog Dem's in 2010 .
thevirtueallliberal 2 years ago
Renamed it to what ? Let's get any B.S. through and trick us liberals into thinking it's real reform ? There's no god damn reason liberals should have dropped the public option . What good is dropping medicare from65 to 55 ? And I heard it only applies to the poor with out insurance .
thevirtueallliberal 2 years ago
That's right, but it also is very expensive.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Only one person per household--not families.
mdryden02 2 years ago
They arent dropping it, they have just renamed it. I wish they would just expand medicare to cover people who cant afford it and pass a law say insurance companies could not deny anyone with pre-existing conditions and this would go along way and be better than a total government take-over of healthcare.
bigdogsdontbark 2 years ago 2
They have changed it to options that no on can afford.
mdryden02 2 years ago
You are exactly right. We are trying to take car of people's needs; not nake it worse for everyone.
mdryden02 2 years ago
I'm not so upset with the govt not being able to run it, but there should be some legislation to not allow insurance companies to steamroll over us. I wouldnt be surprised if the ins companies were all working together. smdh at all the crooked people in power...
diah4 2 years ago 3
The politicians are working with the ins companies.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Republicans denounced the proposal, saying it would add new financial obligations to a program that could not afford its existing commitments.
If the Titanic is sinking, the last thing you want to do is to put Grandma and more of your family on the boat, said Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Medicare is not a good health plan, Mr. Francis said. Even with coverage of prescription drugs, he said, it still doesnt have catastrophic protection.
In response to questions... Senate leaders provided additional details of the proposal announced hastily on Tuesday by the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada:
¶The new Medicare option would be available only to individuals, not to families. In a household consisting 0f three only the man would be eligible for Medicare.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Mr. Francis is an Expert on the federal employee program
mdryden02 2 years ago
According to the Congressional Budget Office, a family of four earning $54,000 in 2016, when the health legislation is in effect, would be eligible for a subsidy of $10,100 to help the cost of insurance under the health legislation being debated ... Senate. By then, one of the most popular federal plans, a nationwide Blue Cross and Blue Shield policy, is projected to cost more than $20,000.
That could leave the family earning $54,000, with monthly premium costs of more than $825.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Senate Democrats have been careful to say that their proposal is not intended to offer exactly the same benefits that members of Congress have. In many cases, federal subsidies would cover a smaller share of the premium than what the government contributes to the cost of health insurance for federal employees.
mdryden02 2 years ago
From today's New York Times:
The Democrats proposal would also allow some people ages 55 to 64 to buy in to Medicare, starting in 2011. That could cost about $7,600 a year per person or $15,200 for a couple, according to a budget office analysis of an earlier version of the concept. No subsidies would be available until 2014.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Medicare costs disabled and retirees about 1200-2400 a year, depending on the plan (rough figures), even near 7,600.
mdryden02 2 years ago
I meant not even near the 7600 that those under 65 would have to pay.
mdryden02 2 years ago
They sold out for some weak ass plan!!!
odnovits 2 years ago
Doesn't look like this plans suits anyone. See above. Do you think this could pass?
mdryden02 2 years ago
It's a shame there aren't Republicans like Harding and Democrats Cleveland anymore. At least in those days they only dealt with things they were supposed to-foreign policy and international trade! Today its gone berserk!
Now there is one party, with two factions arguing over what the founders intended to be state functions (marriage, social policy, criminal law)
VictoryCough 2 years ago
The Insurance Companies win again.
The American public loses again!!!!!!
DillonX 2 years ago 2
As long as we ask Washington to do with social problems like this you can bet special interests will be taken care of.
VictoryCough 2 years ago 2
If you beleive that it's out your a moron, there is no way these power grabbing zealots will not let this go,they can say what ever they want,one way or another it will be in there.Can't wait to get my rules list to live by,or thry will deny me care.
dmaul7 2 years ago
This is what happens when we allow government to mange healthcare. And then when it backfires, the left asks for more government management? If we left healthcare to the free market we wouldn't even hear of things like people getting dropped or denied coverage, because they would have to compete for your business and your satisfaction.
VictoryCough 2 years ago
I will not be told how to take care of myself from the government...
WordsMoveNations 2 years ago
They wouldn't be. The health care companies do it now though. It will become prevalent in the near future. They already tell you that you should join a gym, quite smoking and don't ride a motorcycle. They dictate your weight and your recreational activities. They dictate which doctors/hospitals you can use. The premiums are their instructions.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
They have let 5 Senators basically decide for the entire country. This is a sham. Blue Cross Whores, all of them with Lieberman,the biggest one of all.
Blue Cross wins again and has no reason now to EVER lower their outrageous rates that are estimated to be overpriced by 65%, as they use the rest for profits,CEO pay and lawyers. This is outrageous.
Medicare for those 55, I guess I will now be covered but I feel for those of you who are 30 or 40, who will now die or go bankrupt from Blue Cross.
1911arthur 2 years ago
The only reason it's in debates now is the $300 million obama payed for just one vote. then tures around and said that she would not vote for a bill that included an entirely new government insurance plan. And went on to say that if they give her another $500 million she would vote for a government ran healthcare insurance.
Sen. Mary L. Landrieu (D-La.), is the best senator money can buy.
But hey they;ld sent it back to the house and put it right back in. Anything to keep it moving.
MrSTANDFORAMERICA 2 years ago
The Democrats are history. Whenh the United States breaks down in anarchy many of them will disappear.
thirdcoastguy 2 years ago
Health Company millions (from premiums) given to members of Congress insured we couldn't have Universal Health Care, but there was some hope that at least The Public Option might be passed - but now it's tossed out the window.
The Corporate Whores in Congress get their way!
DillonX 2 years ago
nevermind that this is bad...the thing is...ITS NOT HEALTHCARE REFORM.....it is not...
if you don't change the nature of the way something operates ...its not reform!
wrathofme03 2 years ago 2
This is fucking funny. They're giving us the option of getting into the Federal healthcare plan, but they're looking at hefty premium increases next year. Individual coverage under the most popular plan is going up 15 percent. That's some reform. I think these mother fuckers forgot what we're trying to do here. Well, at least the Tea-Baggers will be happy.
HemiHead66 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
HemiHead66 2 years ago
Whatever they say, it's just a collective f--- for the taxpayers, a.k.a. known as voters.
mdryden02 2 years ago
THERE IS A GOD!
houstonrockets616 2 years ago
Yeah - there's a God alright - and he's right on Wall Street. You just handed our healthcare to Bernie Madoff and the rest of the million dollar players that supply the campaign contributions to the Republicans. Why you think the Wall Street gang is more responsible than the Government is beyond me.
HemiHead66 2 years ago
I don't even give a shit anymore! I'm just glad the public option is gone. Now, hopefully they will vote this whole bill down. I would have a wet dream if that happens.
houstonrockets616 2 years ago
Yeah - Well, I guess if you like paying double what every other industrialized country pays for healthcare - it's all fine and good. There's a reason why we're 37th on the list, and don't even have better healthcare than Saudi "freakin" Arabia. The propaganda pushers win again.
HemiHead66 2 years ago
Yes, you're right. I forgot Saudi Arabia is such a poor country. I will proudly pay double for innovation and medical advancements then paying for lazy people's health insurance.
houstonrockets616 2 years ago
By the way - are the millions of people that are now out of work on your lazy people's list? And all the people that can't find a job because of ouitsourcing - are they on the Lazy people's list too? And what about the people that don't even have healthcare at their jobs - fuck'em? And the people that pay out the ass because they don't have a company to help with the cost - hell with them too?
HemiHead66 2 years ago
First of all, no one in my direct family even had a job while I was battling cancer. There is a thing called COBRA that will work for a due amount of time. People who don't have healthcare at their jobs need to find a way to buy it. We live in America, land of greed and excessive materials. You are being naive, and frankly repeat many of the same talking points as defenders of this travesty of a bill.
houstonrockets616 2 years ago
Your way is dying. Please support Obama so I don't have to wish your cancer to kill you.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
lol. NEVER!
houstonrockets616 2 years ago
When was the last time you saw a team of scientists working on medical advancements and new drugs in your everyday hospital? All the morons do is ask if you want to be the next guinea pig. And I'm talking about providing healthcare to a countries citizens. Shit - one time when I walked into the ER when I didn't have coverage, they wouldn't even give me a shot of Novocain for an abscess that had me on my knees. You get minimal care. But if you have insurance - they'll milk ya for every dime.
HemiHead66 2 years ago
I understand not everyone has the same amount of knowledge about the medical field as a prospective doctor in medical school. However, many of the countries you are citing from WHO's report, offers little to no money towards medical innovation. As it stands now, the USA is 1st in the world in medicinal breakthroughs, with Japan coming in at second. This bill will severely cut funding and will cause these institutions from future cures and preventative drugs. I do agree with you on the insurance.
houstonrockets616 2 years ago
We can have both. Isn't this supposed to be a representative democracy? We can still have the research. We just need to reign in the costs of care. Research doesn't have to be neglected. We just have to make sure that the money is going were we want it to.
Perhaps this could become a legit discussion. Could we get rid of the right/left talking points and actually solve the real issues?
jefevonQ 2 years ago
No, this is supposed to be a socialist state. Haven't you heard the news? Unfortunately, that would all be great. But so would fairies, unicorns, and little blue people named "Smurfs". So, I choose to live in the real world why you live in the fantasy one you hope the US one day will become. I bid you good day. (tips fedora and walks off into the sunset).
houstonrockets616 2 years ago
Work harder the battle cry of the clueless. 50 million Americans have no coverage because they are gouged by the HMOs. We pay $8,000 a year for 37th ranked health care. In Canada they spend $3,000 a year and they get 30th ranked care. You should pull your head out of you ass before any more posts.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
Well, if that is to happen, then you should please educate yourself and really find out why Canada's ranking on the WHO is so high. Get a grip.
houstonrockets616 2 years ago
I'm down with the fedora.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
This is what happens when you try to reach out to the Nazi right. Thanks to President Clinton I'm 100% covered through the VA so I enjoy coverage all Americans should get. Next stop - 2nd Amendment.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
Looks like the corporate fascists win again.
HemiHead66 2 years ago 2
This stuff never goes smooth or all at once. When you consider the GOP's "fix" was to steal our right to go bankrupt this is massive progress. Obama closed tax shelters in Europe, he's hiking up taxes on the rich, the FDA now regulates tobacco and will tax the FUCK out of it to stop people from smoking, the worthless war in Iraq is all but over, It's way more positive than negitive. Next target gun control.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
The GOP's fix? Dems, including Obama, voted for that and Obama apparently thinks it was a good idea since he is continuing the same policy.
As for smoking and gun control, what is your beef? Why can't people smoke a cigarette? And isn't the best gun control education?
freakawill2000 2 years ago
Your cult lied to the Dems, had you not lied thousands would not have died. Man up for once.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
My cult? I have a cult? Wow. Independents are a cult.
Fact is, Obama is continuing almost every policy that Dems said was bad about Bush. The war, the patriot act, the ignorance.
freakawill2000 2 years ago
The Cult of GOP. Now I have proof Obama is not W Jr. All you idiots would support Obama if he were like Bush.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
But I'm not a part of the GOP. I never have been. I did not support most of Bush's policies and I don't support most of Obama's policies. Some are fine, most are not.
freakawill2000 2 years ago
You are either part of the fix or pat of the problem. You ain't part of the fix.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
Considering most of the "fixes" that are proposed just complicate the problem. Why don't you propose a solution instead of blaming others?
freakawill2000 2 years ago
Blaming the source is part of the fix. We are where we are becuase of the failure of the agenda pushed by the right wing.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
What is the solution? Blindly following those who call themselves liberal when they don't support liberty?
freakawill2000 2 years ago
It's a process. First we should tax churches as the businesses they are. Take said taxes and invest them in public education. This will kill off the never ending supply of right wing working class. After that the society will self correct.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
Not a bad idea to tax churches. Charge sales tax on products they sell. If they are actually non-profit, we don't tax. I like it, except we throw more money at a failing education system. I propose we fix that first.
Solution: Screw no child left behind. That is the prime reason we don't have any child get ahead and thus the reason the US is falling behind in the sciences. And don't press for a college education so much. You don't need a BS to run a backhoe.
freakawill2000 2 years ago
The money is the fix for the education system. The right wing needs a poorly educated working class to vote for them. That's why they attack education spending but waste billions on our over bloated DOD.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
I agree that the DOD is over funded, but explain why most poorly educated working class vote for the left wing? answer: handouts If you just throw money at the problem without fixing it, you get the stimulus fiasco.
Oh and free market does apply to your labor. If you set the price too high, no one will buy it. The lower it goes, the more companies want to buy.
freakawill2000 2 years ago
Everyone I know who votes left does so becuase they want the majority of America represented. Somthing the gop doesn't do. Free market does not apply. Go on strike and see how long it takes the right wing to force you back to work. Free market is indeed a scam. If the last 8 years didn't wake you up - nothing will.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
So they vote left because they are mindless, not because they actually believe in those ideals? interesting.
Free market does apply. The only problem is both parties don't want it to apply, they just say they do. Neither party is looking out for the good of the people, they are looking for power. Nothing else. If dems really want "health care reform", they would go through with it. But they don't. They want power. That is it. Same as the GOP.
freakawill2000 2 years ago
If that's the message you got from my post it would explain why you believe murdering 400,000 Iraqis is helping them, and trickle down (aka shoving money up the rich mans ass) helps the working man. After a couples of years of paying your own bills I suspect youll wake up from your Fox News wet dream and join us in the real world.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
Wow. You must be living in a dream world. I never supported either war unlike your left wing idols. Unfortunately, I will never pay my own bills if the left wing has anything to do with it. I will just be a leech off of the system and as the left wing continues, it will become worse and worse until I cannot exist without the government's paycheck every month who I then give to men who can't keep more than 10 cents of every dollar I give.
freakawill2000 2 years ago
You remind me of a story my Grandpa once told me. He said everyone has a right to speak their mind, but just becuase you hear noise coming from a hole on another person - it doesn't mean they're "saying" anything. That's you in a nut shell my sad little nit wit - you just keep farting away.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
Wow, you are worse at insults than at logic, or listening for that matter. Sorry, but your red herring will not deter. If you follow your proposed policies through, we will eventually destroy the middle class creating a super rich corporatism bureaucracy and prole class. Think separation of classes is bad now, it will be worse. The upper 5% will own 95% of the wealth, easily.
freakawill2000 2 years ago
If that were true you would not speak out against Obama.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
I do speak out against him because his loyalty is to the corporations, not the people. Our govt has lost its fear of the people. We have lost so much freedom due to past presidents and this one is no different. If you are truly willing to give up more of your freedom to the system in exchange for some temporary security, you deserve neither. When this program fails, and it will, you will be entirely dependent on the govt and they will try and take even more and they will say the same things.
freakawill2000 2 years ago
Areyou having problems getting your suicide vest to go off.
OBAMASTINIAN 2 years ago
I call in sick whenever it's suicide bombing day.
BlameRepublicans 2 years ago
Pee Yew I smell shit! Sorry it was just a room full of stink-ass politicians. If they produced like they stink we would still have a great country.
billeybop 2 years ago
Who asked for more competition and more choices? We just want coverage!!!
erixonline 2 years ago
The right-wing has only recently been convinced that the thought of choice/competition with health coverage is relevant. Thanks to them, we can look forward to more bankruptcies due to medical expenses in the future. This really sucks because they are also my family, friends, neighbors and coworkers.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
I didn't go bankrupt but did pay $119,000 for my doctor's bill, $85,000 to my lawyer, and I got $15,000 for any future medical expenses in my auto-pedestrian accident settlement. I was just starting a new company and didn't have any insurance ... lost help from the State of Florida when I hired an attorney ... now, I have a lot of pre-existing conditions! -- Also, agree about taking insurance decisions from employers because their pick based on costs only not employee benefit.
erixonline 2 years ago
worthless pile of dog sh*t
you traitor
youll still get yours
FUCKYOUALGORECHANNEL 2 years ago
harry reid= POS
FUCKYOUALGORECHANNEL 2 years ago 2
You haven't done a damn thing but try to swindle Americans.
lenny380 2 years ago
They need toset a cap on CEO salaries--no bonuses--and study the system is Sweden.
mdryden02 2 years ago
and insure uninsured citizens immediately.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Reid is looking for re-election, and nothing more.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Two party system! Democrats and Republicans LOL jaja The elephant and the donkey are in bed together. LOL An the American people are the offsprings LMAO
EmeterioBetances 2 years ago
neglected and abused offspring
mdryden02 2 years ago
the whole us government reps need to be replaced in this coming election...there will be a new revolution
we must give up hope that every thing is normal and see the world for what it is
lookforme2012 2 years ago
How could it be considered a win, the best part of it is gone,I guess big money wins again.
odnovits 2 years ago
Unless it was taken out on the senate floor via a vote. It is still in the bill. And is a just a ploy. if it was admended and taken out today, they end up sending it back to the house where the house Dem's will just put it right back in.
This whole bill needs to be shit canned.
MrSTANDFORAMERICA 2 years ago 3
"real problem" = Lieberman. Backstabbing rat.
Somai82 2 years ago 2
Something is fishy.
LiberalHuntingSeason 2 years ago 3
Whew! that was a close one.
BigPurple121 2 years ago
Now, time to make purchasing medical insurance MANDATORY under fines or arrest...even if you can't afford it. "Win Win" for Insurance companies and their "Big Bankster" buddies.
Bronnster 2 years ago 5
We must connect with French / Japanese / Canadian / Korean medicare insurance companies. We have to create fund and Internet warehouses to by-pass monopoly insurance, medicine and health care and create our own globalization. This administration doesn't have confidence on us the people who just elected them eleven months ago. Call and protest IRS that we won't have tax money for a long while.
beancube2008 2 years ago
their govt runs healthcare.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
Comment removed
MainstreetRugs 2 years ago
from now on every one for him self good luck
DARRJOHN 2 years ago 3
That's right. Can't trust the government, that's for sure.
mdryden02 2 years ago 3
The bill is still a nightmare. It still offers a government overseen private option. We have to cut federal spending, not increase it! We have to cut taxes, not increase them! The only viable way out is to endure this recession, its part of the correction. We have been propping up a phony economy for too long and been delaying the inevitable. The sooner the dollar collapses the better, it teach Washington some fiscal responsibility. Maybe they'll learn they can't solve social problems.
VictoryCough 2 years ago
They are trying to solve THEIR problems, not ours. I guess you can say they have a social problem; they are insincere: they only want our $ and votes. We will find out later that the help they gave us is no help at all.
You have a point, also, in what you say about them/social problems.
mdryden02 2 years ago
o my god what losers the dems
DARRJOHN 2 years ago
STUPID, NOW THE KARMA WON'T DISSOLVE....ts
MysteryGardenProd 2 years ago
I knew those sissy-ass Dems would not pull the trigger and pass health care reform. They have the majority in both Houses, and the Lib Prez to sign it......AND IT STILL COULD NOT PASS!!!!! Me thinks the Left was more worried about being re-elected, than passing socilaized medicine. You libs are pathetic.
mjnr7777 2 years ago
the states have health for the poor.most Hospitals have programs that people go to if they cant pay their bill.For instance Spahn Care in Texas goes by your income if you dont have ins.okla. has sooner care lol.this bill was a power and money grab
jasonfulton 2 years ago
lmao.europe is broke.Britain has had socialised medicine for 15years now .then they come over here for operations.western europe?they are broke.just like theU.S. france was having riots lol yeh id rather be at the bottom and not have to pay for someone elses illness ley them get a job and pay their own way.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
If they can get a job, fine, but if they are ill, everyone could help them. Upper tax brackets would pay more.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Information.
Britain has had universal coverage since WWII.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
The WHO's rankingof 35 is based on the most irrelevant things, including mortality rates and patient satisfaction. Of course people are happy with free care! What proof do you have the quality of life grows under big government? I know France and Canada has yearly doctor walkouts and strikes, so for them quality of life is not better. The only way to make quality of life better is more economic freedom and sound money.
VictoryCough 2 years ago
I agree.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
The Democrats inclusive across-the-aisle philosophy has destroyed our options and we see now that they don't have the backbone to ignore corporate republicans and do what needs to be done.
Liberals deserve every epithet the right-wing fruitcakes heap on them.
MrCaleb6000 2 years ago
This bill is now just a watered down mess and a victory for The Republicans and their Blue Cross Whores.
We need to immediatley start wok on a new bill,Medicare for All.
I'm glad I will now get medicare but it's not right that that everyone doesn't get it if they choose.
Blue Cross now has no reason to EVER lower their rip-off rates. With a public option at least they would have had to cut their rates in half to compete as that is how much they waste on just lawyers to screw people.
1911arthur 2 years ago 3
If I were a crooked politician, I would allow monopolies to run the govt., I would bail out the monopolies with tax-payer funds and then I would complain that the monopolies not having competitive pricing. As a cooked politician I would then claim that "we" tax-payers should pay for a govt. insurance scam to compete withe the finacial and insurance monopolies we just bailed out.
If I were a crook, I'd be eligible to run for a govt. position.
dlucas90 2 years ago 5
largest racket in the world.politics vote to give theirselves raises.whos gonna say no to that
jasonfulton 2 years ago 2
You got it.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Just lower the medicare age to 18.
AnarchoCannibal 2 years ago 3
They might take many benefits away. No way to trust them.
mdryden02 2 years ago
Democratics have no balls. their giving a B.J. to the insurance companies. Go going dems. keep wussing out.
humanisall 2 years ago 3
The word is CORPORATIST. IT'S CORPORATISTS MOTHERFUCKER. I don't EVER want to hear"moderate" AGAIN!
Ed76638 2 years ago 2
The only thing "transparent" about this administration is their bad hand.
They bluffed, and now... they've folded.
VivaChe0bama 2 years ago 2
now they are offering the same insurance that Congress buys.from what i understand its pretty good.
NOT govt ran lol
jasonfulton 2 years ago 2
No, we won't get the same policy as Congress, just the same administrator. Any way you look, we're s------.
mdryden02 2 years ago
your probably right about that.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
900 Billion dollars will not raise taxes or add one penny to the deficit. Not a penny. It's only 900 BILLION. Big deal that's chump change to the retards on the hill. It's not their money, why should they care?
Pvtjamesryan2 2 years ago
they dont i will be dead you will be dead and they will be dead before this deficit is paid off.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
that bill would have hurt small business which in fact supplies 70percent of the jobs in the private secter.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
jasonfulton
In my last economics course I was taught that small business supply 90% of the jobs.
Pvtjamesryan2 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
istand corrected
jasonfulton 2 years ago
lol!! i stand corrected.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
I do hope the blue collar Republicans like their unemployment. Without a solid health care reform bill, we're going to continue to lose manufacturing jobs.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
the manufacturing jobs are leaving the country if you havent noticed.they are going to Mexico China,taiwan and other third world countries
jasonfulton 2 years ago
It's called reading comprehension! "continue"
Mexico and Taiwan both have forms of universal health care in place. This is right up your ally though. The Chinese did, but it was far too underfunded. It would seem that their system is going through upheaval. They never had enough hospitals. Who do you think has more sway there, the people or big business! Who has the cash to 'buy' government?
Small business here would benefit from a good universal plan. Half assed efforts only make it worse.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
and look at both countries.their standerd of living.go across the border into mexico and look at the cardboard cities built next to the factories that companies of the world built.they dont make 1/4 of what we make.yeah they have universal healyhcare because they have nothing else.Thats why the Mexicans keep coming here
jasonfulton 2 years ago
Yeah, they'd both be greatly improved if they weren't being run over by outside money! There are jobs coming in, but there is no real control over the businesses that open doors in those countries. They need better labor laws. International labor laws.
I blame people like you for the problems that exist in this area. As I grow older, I realize that the 'free-market' cry is a cover for exploitation by the organizations with real money behind them.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
you can blame me all you want.Its people like you that supports the deportation of our jobs and the exploitation of outher countries.universal anything amounts to socialism which is the precurser to communism.history has proved those forms of govt doesnt work.a company that moves out if this country can stay out along with their products.we have everything here to do/mahe the same thing.The globalist are behind most of the problems we are having now
jasonfulton 2 years ago
Thank you for quoting Glenn Beck and Michael Savage. Setting up a Universal health care system doesn't mean we're going to a communist system of government. The argument has become very simplistic and transparent.
Perhaps we should fully privatize the nations defense, police and transportation infrastructure?
'For profit' isn't always the best option.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
actually that was a quote from jason fulton.lol.socialised medicine socialised anything doesnt work.people are pulling their own teethe in Britain.waiting 6months for a operation.
jasonfulton 2 years ago
That is the same crap I've heard on the right-wing talk shows for almost a year now. So you worded it a bit differently.
We aren't talking about welfare, which for the record, needs revision. Actual welfare is something we give way too freely. Especially here in WI. That results in quite a few people coming up from Chicago and Rockford, IL. We're talking about financial security in health care alone. This issue has become a real issue since I started paying my own way after HS.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
i hardly watch the talk shows im going from what friends have told me that live in europe.theirs alot of things wrong with the system.welfare and healthcare.changing it isnt fixing it thats what this is all about.We need to fix it.not nationalise it.form a system based on Texas system.if you dont have ins.fill out the paper work job info.and they go based on your income.i emailed that proposal 2 the WH.and was ignored.Obamas like a kid not his way he thros a fit
jasonfulton 2 years ago
If they base your insurance premium on your income, isn't it being covered then by someone making more money?
We, then there's debate from Europe also. I have family in Europe. They are fine with the system. They lived here years ago. The costs aren't rising as fast for them as for us. Either way, someone is wasting our money. Get it away from our employers though. That's not helping.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
actually its called Spahn Care in Texas.the hospital covers whats left over.the govt has nothing to do with it.we have sooner care in okla.which is based off of medicare.and its killing our budget.the hosp.have a system here to help pay the bill if we cant.the doctors bills go up thats one reason our ins,goes up.the docs have been overcharging for years.thats 1 prob.employers shouldnt have to pay for our health i agree with ya on that
jasonfulton 2 years ago
The doctors want the higher paying specialist titles. We desperately need general practitioners though. One reason for that is the pay. Well, take care of the schooling costs for someone serving 5-8 (?) years as a GP. As far as law suits go, that has to be dealt with. But, it's not as bad as what we may have thought. The doctors are getting gouged on that one, hence us. Medication? Not enough space!
The quality of our health care system is virtually irrelevant when we cannot afford it.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
Us is such a weak nation. Bunch of money greedy corrupted politicians, dumb citizens and poor goverment.
Satak8 2 years ago
where are you from?if you live here get out if you dont like it!!