Climategate: The Backstory

[robert140602]

Absolutely terrifying

[ToothbrushMan]

"This assertion is based on a dataset provided by the CRU - headed by Phil Jones".

Rubbish.

The CRU is like a lot of Climate Research departments around the world. It has paid money for the datasets from ESA, NASA, etc. and is not about to give the data away - it would be sued by those who they bought the data from.

[hennomarais]

I track two satellites as a hobby: Here you can read it for yourself:

Go to Google and search for ijis iarc seaice extent - This is from the Japan space agency.

Then search for nsidc arctic sea ice news in Google to read satellite data from National Sea and Ice institute.

The ice loss this year was almost 40% below average

To confirm this data you can look at all the weather stations in the area on a daily basis to make sure they are telling you the truth. I did this for a short while.

[ArynSing]

On top of that, they seem to have the mentality and of a medieval inquisitior, including their attitude toward real science.

[ArynSing]

People who just accept climate change because mainstream media tells them have no idea. People who deny it because they read a biased selection of papers and shout "conspiracy" and call for public punishment of any scientist supporting the anthropogenic climate change idea have no idea either. The difference is that the latter put a lot more effort into talking complete shit and possess the arrogance to truly believe they know better than people who devote their entire life to discover truths.

[dubified89]

He's not a climatologist

[MrMaskita]

The new god hating fabian socialist PM of Australia is going to slam this down on the people when 85% know its a scam,they NEED this cap'n'tade control grid.This is the greatest scam ever,tax on life,the world is at the door of hell its self.

[hennomarais]

You do not need the numbers. Just look at the north pole shrinking!

[thebestsumoeva]

@hennomarais So please do tell me when you saw the North Pole shrinking.

[hennomarais]

@thebestsumoeva I track two satellites as a hobby: Here you can read it for yourself: Go to Google and search for ijis iarc seaice extent - This is from the Japan space agency.

Then search for nsidc arctic sea ice news in Google to read satellite data from National Sea and Ice institute.

The ice loss this year was almost 40% below average

To confirm this data you can look at all the weather stations in the area on a daily basis to make sure they are telling you the truth.

[thebestsumoeva]

@hennomarais I'd first like to thank you for looking at data for your self and forming an opinion based on it. Now as an objective observer what observations do you have that show these reductions are man made vs. naturally occurring cycles.

[hennomarais]

@thebestsumoeva I would suggest understanding the layers in the atmosphere. I looked at many sources. Here is one that stood out for me. Go to Youtube and search for "Global Warming 101 (1 of 5) - The Greenhouse Effect"

Look generally greenhouse gases are a great thing. They stop the earth from doing what the moon does +250 degrees at day and -250 degrees at night. Without our atmosphere we will not survive one day.

Enjoy!

[thebestsumoeva]

@hennomarais I plotted that satellite data on a graph and took the difference between the highest peak and the lowest peak and determined a 7% difference which is within the expected 10% error according to the website. The data suggest a retraction from 2003-2006 with a come back from 2006 to current. The problem is these changes were within the error of the measurements so no conclusive arguments can be made on the ice caps melting. BTW I do research at a University and rather enjoy science.

[hennomarais]

@thebestsumoeva Great I am glad that you enjoy science. Why did you choose 2003 to 2006? If you were using 2007 to 2010 you would see that the ice is growing. Just as 2003 to 2007 will show a big reduction. This technique is called cherry picking. What you need to do is grow your sample size. But as a researcher you probably know this. So If you want something more accurate I would suggest getting an average for 2002 to 2006 and comparing it to the average of 2007 to 2010.

[thebestsumoeva]

@hennomarais They only have data from 2002 to current and I was just looking at the peak to peak changes as a reference. I will break the data up later and fit curves to each peak to analyze the averages from period to period. Some things which are evident is that the difference between the highest peak and lowest peak is 7% which is within the 10% error posted at the website. I'm more curious what their algorithm for determining sea ice from thermal imaging looks like.

[hennomarais]

@thebestsumoeva To get the latest images you can search for "ijis iarc seaice-monitor" in google. They also openly discuss the algorithms and explain every change they make to them. This year they corrected an error when the reflection of the sun interferes with the readability of the data. If you look at the data from the national sea and ice institute you can go back to 1979. The data is not that accurate but the trend lines are exactly the same. There you will have more data to work with.

[HateNeverCeasesHate]

yay, I found a denialist hive! Obviously, tree rings are way more reliable than thermometers. Thermometers lie!!! Climategate is teh truth

[guydecervens]

Phil Jones in a recent interview with the BBC in Britain;

Q: Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming

Phil Jones: YES, but only just

[hilzor]

nice quote mining.

[klnine]

sorry i like US people sadly you have a fucked up system and money grabbing pollies..but you realized this after JFK and Vietnam

so what you doing to sort this ?

[MrOtaku88]

I really think it's time for independent verification of the climate data gathered by NOAA and NASA. They might as well have cooked the book to match the fake data from CRU. Man-made global warming is just a small percentage of what is really happening on Planet Earth.

[hilzor]

And the dozen other data sets that all confirm the same thing?

Yes, this is just a "conspiracy" that has been going on for 45 years since peer-reviewed research, starting back in the mid 60s predicted global warming.

Every independent scientific body is in on it, with even the real skeptics (who agree that earth is warming) cooking the books to show an increase in warming, yet never revealing that it's all just a big sham to get us to buy toyotas.

/s

[KingDingaLing090]

The dems are warmongers too.

Now we have a problem in trying to make our power credible, and Vietnam looks like the place. John F. Kennedy the liberal democrat baby.

"Hes trying to get ballistic missiles, nuclear weapons, chemical and biological weapons. He could be a mass murderer of the first order of magnitude. We are not going to allow that to happen"

Al Goreleoni crime boss.

Liberals are merely liars that created a fake idea that repubicans are the warmongers.

[eerfmi]

98% of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is water vapor. CO is a trace gas at 0,038% an we are a minor source of it. CO2 is a natural, essential gas that plants needs to grow, the more there is the better they grow.

[eerfmi]

The coldest year in the last 15000 was1875, the year without summer. It was a lot warmer in the "Medieval optimum period". The vikings made settlements in greenland and performed agriculture, they stayed there for 100 years before the temps came down... All this without fossil fuels! The climate will change no matter what we do, and it's better for mankind that it goes higher....

Warm is good...

Cold is bad...

[eerfmi]

The climate as been changing for 4 billion years, we are just recovering fromthe "Little Ice age"...

[BraveWorld84]

Al Gore is my shepherd.

[ElijahslendersX]

Do you know how much money fat Al Gore is making off blind faith supporters like yours? Its nothing more than what a star struck fan boy would say.

[magfan77]

@ElijahslendersX yes he is a con man.

its all crap this global warming is man made rubbish!!!

[Skeptic121]

So...my agenda is out front.

We need an investigation of climategate by scientists who either have no agenda or have disclosed theirs.

[TRUMPHENT]

When was the last time Ball was teaching, doing research or even in a lab? The data set has plenty of other data sets to check against. They are from around the world and many organizations. If there had been an issue, it would have popped up years ago in many different places.

[Skeptic121]

@TRUMPHENT

It seems that the more we look at the raw data, the worse it gets. We need an impartial investigation by scientists who do NOT have a political agenda one way or the other.

[TRUMPHENT]

I'll say it again. If the CRU's published data was different from, oh say NASA's or NOAA's or SIO,s data, there would have an uproar much sooner than now.

Remember the Ozone Hole? It's still there. Will be for decades. When first discovered, the scientists thought it was instrument error. They checked their instruments. There was a hole in the Ozone. Next came the how and why. Then, the battle to fix it.

Don't depend on Tim Ball, he hasn't done any real science in decades.

[Skeptic121]

@TRUMPHENT

I remember the ozone hole. The ozone hole is real, but the idea it is caused by CFCs is a complete HOAX. Dupont had a substitute for CFCs all ready to sell, just when the CFCs and ozone hole got into the news. It's called marketing. The global warming and "climate change" HOAX is courtesy of the nuclear industry. The "greens" are just useful idiots.

[TRUMPHENT]

Is "HOAX" your personal code word for conspiracy?

[Skeptic121]

@TRUMPHENT

No, HOAX is right in the dictionary and I use it in its dictionary meaning. A hoax is an attempt to fool people, in this case the taxpayers. The "carbon credit" scam is merely a tax in disguise.

Democrat politician: "The answer is raise taxes. Now what's your question?"

Republican Politician other than Ron Paul: "The answer is more military spending. Now what's your question?"

[KingDingaLing090]

The purpose of Government is the military. If they are going to spend taxes why not create the strongest most high tech military in world history?

The democrats all said Sodom Hussein was a threat with WMD's. Hillbilly, Gore, Pelosi, the rats all said to go in. Bush stayed to create a democracy

Our military is so great that we could destroy the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Iran's nuclear facilities, and North Korea's nuclear facilities and launching pads in days without losing 1 American

[Skeptic121]

@KingDingaLing090

Under our U.S. Constitution the purpose of government is absolutely NOT the military. You might want to read it sometime. If you can't make it all the way through just read the Preamble. Next, try the Declaration of Independence. If you read both documents, you will never be able to write such a sentence again. The purpose of the MILITARY is to protect our COUNTRY, not the other way around.

[KingDingaLing090]

No shit the purpose of government is to create a military to protect OUR COUNTRY.

Shut up now you moron.

[Skeptic121]

@KingDingaLing090

You sound like an angry little man!

[KingDingaLing090]

@Skeptic121

You sound like a douche bag.

[Skeptic121]

@KingDingaLing090 Maybe, but I can smell a little man complex over the net.

[KingDingaLing090]

@Skeptic121 No. Actually calling someone a douche bag is totally normal.

Douche bag.

[jayezzo]

global worming is just another Jewish criminals scam.

[goodinohio]

It's disturbing they teach (brainwash) this false nonsense as fact is the schools. We have a generation of global warming zombies.

Gore went to the schools and told the children your parents are stupid, don't listen to them.

[NickTony29]

That's good coming from Gore, who flunked his science subjects at college, and who thinks the Earth's core temperature is "several million degrees"!!!

[newbutton7]

Al gore just got fucked in the ass raw dogg styyle with no vasaline

[dinkolino2]

he looks like someone that has been practicing it for the while.. did you see his eyes, they are just about to fall out :)

[Crusher8000]

it's because 2012 is comming, it's the end of the world and we can't do anything to stop it!

We're doomed! Dooooooooooooooooooomed

[CatchyNameGoesHere]

"...the suspicion HAS to be..."

great, way to fall into typical conspiracy theorist traps and totally discredit everything else said in this video....

sigh....

[Skeptic121]

@CatchyNameGoesHere

Ball is correct. The suspicion has to be that scientists who refuse to "show their work" are hiding something that discredits their conclusions. That is not conspiracy theory; it is elementary scientific method, well established since the renaissance.

[BuBBaGump014]

IF he fudged the data then it would be relativity easy for any independent climatologist or some independent organization to get the raw data, to the analysis, publish a paper that shows that the CRU's conclusions are wrong. Is that so hard for conspiracy theorists to understand? Peer-review of any institution may be flawed but the corner-stone of science is not peer-review (it's necessary just not sufficient) it's REPLICATION. The climate is there -- only science can debunk science.

[Skeptic121]

@BuBBaGump014

Bubba, I don't completely understand your point.

You are right about peer review and replication.

However, there is NO innocent reason for keeping their raw data secret. The fact that they refused to release it when asked by another scientist is all the proof anyone needs that they are not to be trusted. I am not sure why you mention "conspiracy theorists". Who do you mean?

[CatchyNameGoesHere]

"The fact that they refused to release it when asked by another scientist is all the proof anyone needs that they are not to be trusted."

See my comments above. This does not equal proof. What happened to the scientific method?

[Skeptic121]

@CatchyNameGoesHere You do not seem to understand the burden of proof in science. The scientists who claim to have proven something have the burden of proof. A group of scientists claiming "global warming is caused by human-produced CO2" and "if we don't 'do something' bad things will happen". That group has the burden of proof. Their refusal to "show their work" means they fail to meet their burden of proof, and fail quite miserably.

[CatchyNameGoesHere]

Oh I understand how it works, I think you are missing what I am saying. Forget about the scientist and think about what Ball said. He turned suspicion into proof. He did the exact same thing he is saying the scientist is doing (albeit, for something far less significant). However, that is all it takes for someone to watch this video and think they know what is going on because of what he said (with no proof). And thar she blows, it's a conspiracy... bah, I have forgotten the video now...

[Skeptic121]

@CatchyNameGoesHere

These so-called climate scientists want the rest of us to sacrifice our standard of living to reduce the global warming THEY claim we are causing.

In that case, their burden of proof is political as well as scientific. THEY have the burden of persuading US that THEY are to be trusted. After CLIMATEGATE, the e-mails showing rampant fraud and dishonesty, they will NEVER be able to meet that burden.

We need an investigation by other scientists who have no political agenda.

[CatchyNameGoesHere]

hmmm... kinda playing devil's advocate here, but if i recall Grade 10 Science class, there is no proof in science...

But whatever, it doesn't matter all. None of it does.... this is just the matrix, none of its real...

[CatchyNameGoesHere]

Lets be clear: saying that because someone wont tell you something means they are lying is NOT the scientific method. Also, using the word suspicion in a sentence is most likely NOT the scientific method.

Ball has turned his suspicion into "proof" (don't get me started on that word) and people are believing it (see: these comments).

I believe they call this the "strawman" fallacy of argumentation... but I could be wrong, I don't really remember that stuff anymore... (ad hominem maybe?)

[Skeptic121]

@CatchyNameGoesHere

The fact that scientists will not release their raw data is proof that they are not to be trusted.

Perhaps they are not lying, but if they try to hide information from other scientists there is no reason other scientists should believe them. Being trusted and believed is a privilege one earns, not a right one demands based on a degree or faculty position.

[CatchyNameGoesHere]

Am I the only skeptic of skeptics here? Why can't skeptics listen to their own advice? Bah!

At the risk of repeating myself by pointing out that you are repeating yourself, I will just stop, because..well, this is the Internet, and we all know what that means....

[NickTony29]

Yes I know it's hard for someone like yourself to wake up out of that deep slumber you've been in, but there still might be hope yet.

What other reason can you give for someone concealing the working for a conclusion that will fundamentally alter the way the world operates??? How can that be scientific? Science only works well when other people can verify the data and the conclusions drawn from that data. If you deny this, you're a fool.

[TheTerroristbush]

not a computer in the world that could deal with the data ..........could be best /worse guess work?

[honestann]

We know higher temperatures cause an increase of CO2, not the opposite.

We know many peroids of warmer and? colder weather (and higher and lower CO2) have happened for thousands of years.

We know the Mars polar ice caps grow and shrink with the Earth polar ice caps, which means warming and cooling is primarily caused by sun changes.

Hang the climate totalitarians!

We need 100% separation of science and state.

Government funded science == fraud.

End lies and pollution, not CO2.

[Sionn5]

Honesty and truth would of led to clear science and a proper global consensus but instead we get this.

Why hide the data? Why the lack of transparency? Well consider this....

Where finally some information is obtained about the methodology (after years of struggle btw), what do we find? We find that its wrong.

- Mann's hockey stick

- Briffa's recent Yamal tree ring reconstruction

- Emails

All examples of what we see when we get a close look at the data.

[thatstheguy07]

im surprised these fuckers got away wit hthis scam for this long. ppl are so stupid and easily misled tho, its gone on for this long. lets start seeing something happen here.

[carbonhealth]

cause this so called scientist is a fagot, a liar! He got payed over the years for producing out false data, simple as that. He should get kicked out , or better tarred and feathered !

[dontlikenumbers]

Just heard that Phil Jones has stepped down during an investigation. I guess the pressure is getting to them.

[Skeptic121]

@carbonhealth Would you like to tell us WHY he is wrong? Do you have any evidence or even an argument? Or do you only have insults?

BTW, most of us spell it "faggot" assuming we would even use the word in a policy debate, which we would not because we are no longer in elementary school. Are you a child?

[elbuggo]

2:50 Treason is a powerful weapon.

[XPIOLT]

The scientists are in collusion, the politicians are in collusion, the mainstream media is in collusion and they are all in collusion together to conspire against the citizens of this planet in order to rape, plunder and control them. They've been caught with their pants down and now it's time to start making arrests and trying these bastards from the National Geographic to the United Nations. We deniers of Global Warming have been vindicated. Gore & Rothschild...were coming for ya!

[dubified89]

@XPIOLT The only people we can trust are the oil companies who fund Tim Ball (check out sourcewatch website)

[Ianmcgregorable]

Why would a non-disclosure agreement be secret?

And if they cannot produce the agreement, can anyone know whether they're lying or not?

By the way, temperature readings aren't secret. Neither are thermometers high technology.

[D13HARD]

Notice that anytime Al Gore is talking...he's thrown softball questions and never a hard question...he's never debated anyone...he made a brainwash film and everyone who saw it instantly was willing to give all their money over. No one questioned it. And if you do...then you will be blackballed or called a

"Holocaust Denier."

[uffx3]

yes ddiia52, exactly

[giovanhagar]

a lower population is the answer

[eiwaz]

giovanhagar, I suggest you and your ilk volunteer to reduce the population by removing yourselves from it.

[AssemblyXX]

Trust me people, this is not the only lie, there are many more, for example, we do not have a population issue, so ya, giovanhagar, do consider removing yourself from population, anyone that can not get past the fact that population is not an issue are the issue.

[Jargin9112]

Yep

[uffx3]

a hanged elite is the answer

[2pandora4]

The elephantintheroom should stop drinking the koolaid.

They don't tell the truth.

Yes, every individual on this planet needs to more conscious and proactive in regards to consumption, pollution, etc. Although the big companies have no problem so long as were buying, buying ,buying even when we have no money, money, money!(because they have it all) and keep the economy strong...who benefits from that? More stuff don't need, that ends up where? A landfill or sent to China.

[uffx3]

totally agree

[hplaserjet2001]

"The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself."

-Club of Rome, Environmental Think-Tank Consultants to the United Nations

[uffx3]

The United nations are a bunch of Criminals, are exactly the elite who's destroying the planet and tryin to make us feel guilty. The common enemy of humanity is the Elite, watch some good documentaries, like Endgame.

[hplaserjet2001]

You missed the point of my post. That was a comment made by the Club of Rome. They came up with the global warming scam as a way to turn humanity on itself and make a fortune through the carbon tax and green movement. They want us to believe that we are cause of global warming. It's all a scam.

Take a look at my channel and you'll see I have dozens of playlists with links to 100s of documentaries.

[hplaserjet2001]

And, yes you are right the common enemy of humanity is the evil NWO/illuminati. I no longer use the term "elite" when I refer to them, there is nothing elite about them.

[uffx3]

Hello there. Of course i saw that was a quote...just, if you quote someone w/o writing anything else, the reader will believe you agree with what you are quoting ;) That's ok, misunderstandong cleared up :) Oh, I say elite because, in all honesty, they still rule the world unfortunately, because we are worth too little to kick them off. That's the truth for now, man

[hplaserjet2001]

Yes, I can see how people could think that. However, that particular quote was about the Club of Rome hatching a plan to use against humanity. The point of that quote is that global warming is a scam.

Peace to you and your family.

"You give me a water board and one hour with Dick Cheney and I'll have him confessing to the Sharon Tate murders." - Jesse Ventura

[ddiiaa52]

The elite want to tax everyone and what better way is with climate hoax.

[Elephantintheroom01]

*Sigh* if the truth is the truth then why don't they show everyone.

I know the world is full of naysayer but their just trying to get to the truth too...

Heres some intellectual truth, if you don't stop pollution you will kill your children or someone elses. And I wont let you do that.

Yea, YOU ya climate change deniers. The climate is changing, we need to adjust: only truth that matters.

[YouDoobed]

Man made global warming is a massive fraud.

[Wecknachricht]

this is unbelievable, they are crooks, criminal kabal

[Elephantintheroom01]

I don't see anything wrong with what their saying. The climate is changing, i don't care who caused it, but considering we are gonna fast run out of species and are poisoning ourselves with chemicals and chopping down rainforests for coffee tables, and invading Iraq to get at their oil supply, i really don't care if we arnt the no.1 cause, or that they are lying about it.

I do care, that the politicians are using this as a means to further their corrupt regimes.

[2pandora4]

I do care who is causing it, especially when we are being lied to and then have to pay for it, and millions globally die from their greed.

[Elephantintheroom01]

What exactly do you mean by millions globally die from their greed?

In Victorian England families had many children presumably because few survived, however you can't blame society entirely for this loss, doctors that could not determine the cause of death would often put it as failure to thrive. This makes an interesting point, how much can we blame people for our failure to thrive. How much can we blame them for us letting them do these things to us?

[5to22a]

Thank you for this.

[boosuff]

great reporting. thanks for sharing

[smacktalk1211]

thanks for the video

[RCinPAWA]

Only someone with an agenda would refuse to share his data. Of course, enough money under the table would skew anyone's data.

On the other hand, maybe Mr. Jones is just a terrible, selfish scientist.

[funnyguise]

added to my facebook... thanks!!!

[jacobvision]

The Dutch off Met office confessed a few days ago that they were wrong with their average temperature over the years. They gave 1 degree celsius higher then real.