God Is Not Great (by Christopher Hitchens): A Critique

[uTubeismyTivo]

atheism doesn't say intelligence and morality just appear wtf

[smartwarlord]

Intelligent Design is Blasphemy.

[lmiddleman]

Hitchens has an Oxford education in philosophy and other subjects. ID is just silly: during the Dover trial even Michael Behe admitted that if ID is science, so is astrology. Silly interview.

[rfvidz]

@lmiddleman Behe didn't say that. And I would suggest that you actually read what ID proponents say. You're obviously reading what their critics are saying. You should be unbiased when you want to know what someone believes.

[EucharistOfHypnos]

@rfvidz Um, but ID is silly. I was robbed of an education in high school when I was taught ID out of a Bob Jones U textbook. If you think ID is science, you don't know what science is.

[lmiddleman]

@rfvidz Ref: google 'behe astrology', click link to court transcripts Kitzmiller vs Dover.

[Pearmanb8484]

Religion poisons EVERYTHING? That's quite the claim. I've always been cautious of these sweeping universal statements. Everything is a lot of things. I'd re-title the book with more modesty. "Some People's Claims about God are Not Great: How Bad People in Bad Religions Do Bad Things." It's got a nice ring to it...easier to support, too.

[veganath]

@Pearmanb8484 Or a title "Religious beliefs that Cause Unnecessary Suffering", it would be absurd to throw the truly peaceful religion of Jainism into the same basket of 'religions that poison everything'

[SirReal007]

There is no proof of god with out referencing the bible. This conversation is waste of time there are no arguments for Creationism (ID) worth discussing. Non Science. This fellow should do some more research himself both on the subject and Christopher Hitchens.

[goodbryan]

Hehe. What a funny interview. You know he's talking bull when he starts praising id. There's enough serious christinan scientists that show how useless id is. The rest is just whining.

[N0TS0SUBTLE]

If the Bible is deemed historically accurate in forming of the nation of Israel why cant it be accurate in every other aspect? The life of Alexander the Great was written 600 years later and is considered a historical document yet the gospels were written 30 years after Christ and we laugh at them? Its our pride that prevents us from bowing. Who are we to question God? Why are we so arrogant? Repent and turn to Christ or face eternal consequences for turning down Gods gift of salvation. Peace.

[veganath]

@N0TS0SUBTLE I believe JC was an exemplary role model for all humans as was Buddha, Krishna, Ghandi..etc. To qualify as a follower of JC I hope you agree that imitation is the best form of flattery... that is become like JC.

Upon JC's arrival he declared he was a messenger of God, later JC felt he was as close to God as a son, near the end of his ministry, his love for God moved him to declare that he & the father were one(John 10:30), perhaps this is our spiritual journey too.

[Christlovesanimals]

Here's my critique: Hitchens is not an atheist: he's just another anti-religious bigot.

Therefore, I wouldn't read anything he would write for the same reason I wouldn't read anything that Archie Bunker would have written about "niggers."

[NorseDisbeliever]

@Christlovesanimals

Moron.

Hitchens have said several times that he's not so much an Atheist as he's an Anti-Theist. And gives good reasons for why he states it like that. But, he still is an atheist. Does he hold a religious belief?

[Christlovesanimals]

@NorseDisbeliever

Moronic twit.

If you can't handle the truth then just shut the fuck up pompous twit.

[NorseDisbeliever]

@Christlovesanimals

It's not a question about truth. It's a question about understanding that you can be an Atheist and still be an Anti-Theist. One is perfectly fine to be both.

[Christlovesanimals]

@NorseDisbeliever If you're a stupid twit who doesn't realize he doesn't have the epistemological stuff to make such ridiculous claims.

I don''t care what you are, silly: just bring some evidence to the table.

[NorseDisbeliever]

@Christlovesanimals

I find it funny that you want to discuss epistemological ideas with me, when your already have shown yourself unable to understand the difference and separation between atheism and anti-theism.

[Christlovesanimals]

@NorseDisbeliever Since you're a pompous twit I have no doubt you would begin most of your sentences with "I find it funny...."

Twit.

I understand the difference you dufus and said nothing to indicate anything otherwise.

You're trying to "wax eloquently" as if you know what the hell you're talking about when you couldn't give plausible evidence to prove atheism or anti-theism if your silly little atheist life depended on it.

I'm tired of you pompous twits: just shut the fuck up you twit.

[NorseDisbeliever]

@Christlovesanimals

Yes. you said otherwise. You said that "Hitchens is not an atheist: he's just another anti-religious bigot"

Indicates clearly that you don't understand these two concepts.

As far as "plausible evidence for atheism". Well, first off. I don't have to provide it. It's the positive claim's burden to provide evidence. I merely claim there is no reason to believe there is a god. Secondly, a continues failure of the claims already provided indicates a negative: There is no god.

[Christlovesanimals]

@NorseDisbeliever No dufus...it proves that YOU do not understand the difference.

Yes you do have to provide it you "new atheist" twit.

"There is no God" ---THEN PROVE IT YOU STUPID ASS TALKING OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF YOU MOUTH.

EITHER "PUT UP" OR "SHUT THE HELL UP."

A typice YT "new atheist" pussy hiding behind "I don't have to prove anything." You stupid twit---if every religion in the world was false it STILL proves NOTHING about the existence or non-existence of God.

Pompous twit.

[Christlovesanimals]

Put up or shut hell up about God not existing you pussy.

[NorseDisbeliever]

@Christlovesanimals

Are you really this moronic or are you just pretending to be?

You sound like someone who hasn't actually heard any of these arguments before.

There can never be conclusive evidence for the negative. But never have a naturalistic proof been overturned by a supernatural one. AND, it's your obligation to provide the evidence when your making the positive claim. IE, god exist. It is NOT my obligation to disprove it. Evidence does not work like that.

[Christlovesanimals]

@NorseDisbeliever Are you still at it twit?

Get lost you intellectual pussy-like all YT atheists.

Pussy.

[NorseDisbeliever]

@Christlovesanimals

Hahaha

So your answer is that you have no answer. Well, good to hear. I figured as much tbh.

[Christlovesanimals]

@NorseDisbeliever Ah...Norsey the horsey's ass....still at it twit?

Silly twit. You can't beat me: you can only try to throw ad hominems my way.

Silly horse's ass!

Silly Silly Silly!!

[NorseDisbeliever]

@Christlovesanimals

Ad hominid attacks???? Did you respond with an argument? If you look up and read what you yourself posted, who provided the ad hominid attacks? No one can ever provide conclusive evidence for the negative. We have not been everywhere in the universe and we will never be able. But we can test the theistic claims that are made. Ie, god answers prayers. Which he doesn't. God have created the earth. Which he hasn't. He created man, which he hasn't. All these claims have failed.

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals (BTW like you I believe JC was a vegetarian)

Wonder why u bothered reading the Bible, why give anything preferential priority especially to religious convictions...

[Christlovesanimals]

@veganath Jesus wasn't a vegetarian: He ate a fish, at least, in Luke 24.

I have no idea what you meant by your "wonder why..." statement.

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals Fish loaves, loaves of bread shaped like fish....perhaps, anyway it doesn't matter what I believe about JC or anything, or what others believe. as long as what they believe isn't the impetus to cause UNNECESSARY suffering, yes even to animals like fish.

BTW, I love your youtube account site, are you a vegetarian(like Saint Francis of Assisi)?

The 'Wonder why', is just airing my frustration of culturally imposed religious belief systems, obviously predetermined by birthplace.

[Christlovesanimals]

@veganath Uh....YES IT DOES matter what one believes about Jesus: if you really believe in the "Essene Gospel of Peace" forgery you're a fool.

Don't tell me later that I didn't warn you.

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals I don't see ur point on the importance of belief, & so, why is it important? You & I can believe what ever we like, this is the realm of our own minds machinations, it is only of consequence to others(humans & non-humans) if what we believe is the impetus to cause UNNECESSARY suffering. I pay attention when for example the Islamic Koran can be interpreted to cause people with so much potential for manifesting Love(God) to fly planes into buildings, killing themselves & others

[Christlovesanimals]

@veganath They do such things to IMPRESS Allah, not to love him.

But,, what does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? or

the REAL HISTORICAL teachings of Jesus??

Why is historical truth important? If I have to answer that one for you

then it's pointless having a dialogue with you.

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals I see why NorseDisbeliever moved on. One last question 4u b4 u throw u'r hands in the air, I think I asked you in another post, are you a vegetarian, Christian vegetarians are a rare thing?

As a vegan the important thing is the well being of conscious creatures & that they are protected from those that would cause them UNNECESSARY suffering.

[Christlovesanimals]

@veganath I'm a Christian VEGAN.

The "well being of conscious creatures" involves not being involved

in DECEPTION and LIES, i.e., the "Essene" crapola.

Are you saying you're as stupid as Norse?...I don't think that's possible.

[smartwarlord]

@Christlovesanimals

Were all of the Biblical figures incorrect? since none of them were vegans.

Veganism is for evil & selfish horrible human beings.

[veganath]

@smartwarlord If animals were to do something stupid & create a religion then the embodiment of the devil would be us humans, we vegans would most likely be raised to the status of saviors whose mission might be the promise of salvation from unnecessary suffering!

Biblical figures simply may not have evolved to embrace the final moral frontier, no not racism, but "specism" & the inherent hypocrisy humans choose to ignore in term of the inconsistencies of their moral framework

[smartwarlord]

@veganath

So Veganism is a next-step for human societal evolution? What evidence do you have of this? How is Veganism in any way moral?

How can you be a vegan, and yet fully admit for 1200 years G-d accepted animal sacrifices at His Holy Temple?

[veganath]

@smartwarlord Morality is about not causing unnecessary suffering to conscious creatures, a great moral axiom would be "Thou shalt not cause unnecessary suffering any conscious creature".

Imagine if the Bible, the Koran, etc included this as a basic tenet of behavior, I hope u agree our world would be a lot less violent than it is today. If you find that objectionable then what moral guide lines would you advise?

Do you believe we should not cause unnecessary suffering to conscious creatures?

[smartwarlord]

@veganath

I don't believe non-human suffering is equivalent to human suffering. I have no moral issues with someone who kills an animal for sport or fun, or someone who eats only animals (carnivore) for his/her life.

If it lacks the ability to reason, then it also lacks any right to not-suffer.

[veganath]

@smartwarlord u say "If it lacks the ability to reason, then it also lacks any right to not-suffer", are u referring to yourself..lol

So mentally retarded people has no right not to suffer? An American Indian saying, "Life is a journey from our head to our heart" at some point they realized that true experience of happiness, love, God(Great Spirit) required that we move beyond feeling isolated & alone in a world we perceive as hostile. Perhaps our greatest LOVE affair is with the entire universe

[Christlovesanimals]

@smartwarlord wow....how stupid are you???

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals Why wld u say that the Essene gospels are deceptive & false, as opposed to say the Bible, what give one more credibility than the other?

Imagining the same dialogue with a Muslim "The "well being of conscious creatures" involves not being involved in DECEPTION and LIES ie, the "Bible" crapola."

The point is that people of diverse geo-cultural influence use different maps to guide them in life's journey. Labels we give things aren't as important as the reality they point too!

[smartwarlord]

@veganath

There are no Essene Gospels. Gospels are a Greek literary genre. 

[Christlovesanimals]

@veganath BECAUSE I, AS OPPOSED TO YOU, **STUDIED** IT ALL YOU DUFUS!!..

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT?

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals 'Dufus' is a christian term of endearment..lol? So I'll assume u hv read the Veda's the Tora, the Buddhist scriptures, the Koran & a popular more contemporary work 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle & have concluded that the Bible has a monopoly on the truth. Anyway if all of that has, at the very least, bought u to point of being loving & extending equal consideration of interests to non-humans, I applaud u.

Is it difficult to talk with other christians about u'r veganism?

[Christlovesanimals]

@veganath Of course I've read all those things (except the Tolle stuff.)

Why haven't you read the Bible before discounting it AS IF YOU KNOW

SHIT ABOUT IT"

Yes, all these other "scriptures" pale incomparison to the Bible. Anyone

who doesn't see that is either 1) ignorant 2) biased or 3) both.

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals I like all religions, I just find that those who claim to be adherents often do not manifest, peace, compassion or love, ie the bible 1 John 4:8 'God is love', Mark 12:31 'Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.

Anyway I wish u well, I hope u are able to convert as many people to a loving & compassionate xtain vegan lifestyle, it's always nice to meet others who share the same love for other animals as I do.

[Christlovesanimals]

@veganath

Good: you quoted from real Scripture.

Why then would you even BEGIN to give any credence to

20th century forgeries????

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals the word of God and our 'fallen interpretation' of the word are not the same thing, Baptists & 7th day Adventist don't even hv consensus of interpretation

I posit that we need 2b vigilant for messages in verses that we have not fully understood YET eg 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. Personally I prefer the contemplative traditions insight. I ask myself if what I do is in my spiritual self interest and that of God's plan for the renewal of creation for the Peaceable Kingdom.

[Christlovesanimals]

@veganath I have no idea what a "fallen interpretation" is....you keep dodging why

you don't throw the Essene crap in the trash can where it belongs...interesting.

[veganath]

@Christlovesanimals Not sure what u mean by Essene, suffice to say I love ALL religions including atheism, with the caveat that what ever is taught by these it has to improve the conscious well-being of ALL creatures, why because the bible says 'Love your neighbor as yourself', because OUR NEIGHBOR IS OUR SELF at some deeply spiritual level, the glue is LOVE or God - u know 'God is love'1John4:8. Jesus' revelation after 40 days & 40 nights being contemplative "I & my father are one" (John 10:30)