Kobayashi Maru

[BeachofDreams]

One of the first uses of cgi in film - this and the Genesis sequence scene. Tron, I think, was the first movie to use cgi.

[Artifactsofmars]

This is the one movie scene that will perplex me till the day I die. It makes no sense to have a scenario where there is no possibility of success. Winning is as much or more of a test of character as losing is after all. I also thought that the ship was pretty wimpy that it could not take Klingon torpedo or two.

[GIRlovesWaffles]

@Artifactsofmars It's not a test of tactical skills as so much a test of Character. In other words to see what someone is willing to do to try to "Win" the No Win scenario, and how the respond to a no win scenario. It's not about winning, it's about how you handle failure.

[Incadazant01]

Well, seeing as how I'm taking the experimental vessel Prometheus, I'll just separate the three sections, beat the shit out of the Klingons, then rescue the crew of the Kobayashi Maru.

[sunnchilde]

@Incadazant01 There IS no Kobayashi Maru. It was a trick by the Klingons to lure ships across the Neutral Zone. The transmission was faked. There is no "civilian" ship to rescue.

[Incadazant01]

@sunnchilde Well, if sensors and the viewer say there's no ship, then I proceed to leave. If the Klingons are faking, then it's rather dishonorable for them, and blowing them up wouldn't hurt my feelings any. Besides, you DO know what Prometheus is, right?

[sunnchilde]

@Incadazant01 Sure. The Prometheus is the ship that can split in to 3 parts, Voyager ("Message in a Bottle" S04E14). But back to the point, the Enterprise never had sensor contact with the KM. What they had was a beacon heading from where the transmission came from, that and the given coordinates, "GH, Section 10". They received the transmission, entered the NZ and were ambushed by a superior force and disabled. However, the shields SHOULD have held at least a few torpedoes.

[Incadazant01]

@sunnchilde I think you missed my point. I'm not using a Connie-refit. I'm using a three-section warship that I pulled from the future.

[sunnchilde]

@Incadazant01 Whatever. There was never any ship TO RESCUE. You can bring in the third fleet and lay war against the whole Klingon Empire, but you still cannot rescue a ship that does not exist. That's the only point I want to make.

[Andriykobin]

It's Kobayashi for you! There's no way you could win!

[Spionsilver]

this is what i call "the perfect aproach..

[DarthRushy]

J.J Abrams(played by Khan) takes control over the franchise and the old Kirk and crew are marooned to a random planet.

JJ:I shall leave you as you left me... very alive, very alive...(buried alive?)

Kirk:KHAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

*Later*

Kirk:*Using the awesomeness of Roddenberry's franchise, casts out the new movie*I'm laughing at the superior CGI and intellect.

JJ goes away to make Star Trek XI which does have some other similarities to Star Trek II.

[DarthRushy]

My version to complete:Before encountering the Klingons, I'd separate ship. Everyone besides the Captain go to saucer. The Captain pilots the ship to Kobayashi Maru(with dozens of torpedoes ready and phasers at full(powered by the warp core). With an arsenal like that, I'd use the Picard Maneuver at one ship fire everything and either destroy it or it's shields. Then I'd finish the first vessel, beam aboard everyone while the Klingons are at shock and hope I make it away.

[terrywest111]

@DarthRushy You're talking about separating a Constitution Class Refit? I don't know man. You only have 2 rear firing phaser banks and the two foward torpedo launchers. Losing the saucer, severely weakens you because you are losing the main phaser banks on the saucer. Plus, you're facing 3 K'Tinga class cruisers... which were easily a match for a Constitution Class Refit. I think you are just royally screwed any way you look at it.

[DarthRushy]

@terrywest111 Oh, damn. I forgot it was still 23rd century. Well, in that case I'd use the Kirk Maneuver to go back in time, get Enterprise-J and while it owns the Klingons, get the Kobayashi Maru to safety, then I'd use the combined crew and the element of surprise to get the future crew to cooperate with me and use Starfleet's assistance in slowly taking over the vessel and capture the future crew. Kobayashi Maru is safe and I command Enterprise-J. Using Mirror Archer's plan,

[DarthRushy]

@DarthRushy I'd use Enterprise to force Starfleet to surrender and obey my every command. That saves Kobayashi Maru and gets me to reorganize the Federation, use the new technology to make sure everyone obeyed me and rule the Terran Empire. Happy ending.

[localfive0]

After Spock told Saavik that there was no power to the weapons, perhaps there could be some place for, "Prepare for ramming speed!"

[Artifactsofmars]

This scene will forever baffle me. Kirk says that it is a test of character. Well winning can test character as much as losing can, but they stacked the game so that there was no way to win. I wonder however what the reaction to the simulation would be if the Enterprise were simply to send a probe rather than go into the neutral zone, or simply ignore the call. After all, why would that freighter be in the neutral zone anyway?

[KingOfMadCows]

@Artifactsofmars The whole point of the test is to see how officers would deal with a no win scenario, which they will likely face when they are put in a position of command.

[GIRlovesWaffles]

@Artifactsofmars The freighter drifted there after hitting a mine and lost all power. Listen to the distress call.

[shafta99]

3 klingon battle cruisers. oh you gotta be kidding me!! lol. how come starfleet never shows up with more than one ship?

[AeronPeryton]

"One photon each should do, let's not waste ammunition." ;)

[shafta99]

@AeronPeryton oh a smartass huh?! lol your comment was on point and hilarious!!!

[vicentox1999]

absolutely awesome entrance by Shatner

[captaint1000]

@vicentox1999 what else can u expect from a living legend?

[deathknight51]

Why does star fleet hide explosives in all of the computer terminals?

[TonyShow82]

This would make an excellent comment for "CLUSTERFUCKED" in a blog or myspace.

[bbenjoe]

In the original series / films... was it Spock who designed the Kobayashi Maru? (you know, like he did in Star Trek 2009 )

[andrewstartrekmario]

Sadly, I saw the new movie before any of the original Star Trek material, so I knew the Kobayashi Maru was a test :(

[RingSight91]

@andrewstartrekmario Anybody who's into any sort of Star Trek already knew that the Kobayashi Maru scenario was a test. The fact that only Kirk was able to beat it at the Academy is the subject of legend, regardless which timeline you follow.

[andrewstartrekmario]

@RingSight91 Well, only 2 years ago was when I stumbled across the new movie, yes, WHEN IT CAME OUT, and I was hooked on to Star Trek since then. I only saw this 6 months later, so I never knew that Kirk actually got away with cheating, and the new movie got me very mixed up from the start

[RingSight91]

@andrewstartrekmario Kirk "cheating" was all Abrams' idea. They never actually say how he beat it as a cadet in the prime timeline. And Spock wasn't the test designer then, IIRC. Alls we knows is that Kirk did pass somehow (speculation in novels aside), so him proctoring Saavik's test in this situation makes him qualified to evaluate her performance.

[GIRlovesWaffles]

@RingSight91 Wow! you didn't even watch Wrath of Kahn did you. One hour, sixteen minutes and twenty nine seconds into the movie: McCoy, Kirk Savic and David discuss this. Don't give J.J. (hack) Abrahms credit for something he stole from TWoK! He had no real Ideas in his film, just stupid coincidences.

[RingSight91]

@GIRlovesWaffles >"McCoy, Kirk Savic and David discuss this."

"Discussion" does not equal "Confirmation". Kirk's friends' gossiping and Kirk's propensity to embellish on his exploits doesn't convince me they actually knew how Kirk beat the test.

And I did see TWoK, at least three times including the theatre release. I won't claim Idactic Memory on that one though, unlike in my re-watchings of ST IV.

[GIRlovesWaffles]

@RingSight91 WTF??? Their discussion of how Kirk Beat the Kobiashi Maru by reprogramming the simulator isn't an conformation that kirk cheated? Kirk admits he reprogrammed the simulator! Bones even brought it up! It wasn't gossip between them, and by the way, gossip is generally about someone not present in a conversation, not with the person.  Go back and watch the movie again (or "three more times") and see for yourself.

[RingSight91]

@GIRlovesWaffles The impression I got of Kirk was of a, "Oh yeah, sure I did," attitude. Seeing as we don't know of any similar circumstances of that talk in the TOS, I'm inclined to believe it was yet more shock value to keep the movie series alive.

[GIRlovesWaffles]

@RingSight91 What kind of Bizzaro world do you come from where Kirk admitting: "I reprogrammed the Simulator" is gossip and "Attitude"? And so what if it wasn't mentioned in TOS? We're talking about TWoK here.

You Claimed J.J. Abrahms came up with the cheat, I pointed out you were wrong and told you where the admission was! Are you going to keep skirting the FACT you were wrong?

[RingSight91]

@GIRlovesWaffles Well excuuuuuse my ambiguity. When I said, "it was all JJ Abrams," I meant it as in the "portrayal of how" Kirk cheated and reprogrammed the simulator. The specifics of such were cut from the film, but apparently it involved exploiting his "relationship" with Cadette Gaila (Orion girl booty call Uhura's roomie) to gain access to the program before that re-test show. That's why she's all upset in the background (look closely) when he's called to the floor to answer for his cheat.

[GIRlovesWaffles]

@RingSight91  No, you said it was his idea. And if you meant how it was portrayed, why didn't you say that before? And "Ambiguity" is not synonymous with mistake.

[SpartanPrimus]

she acctualy made some pretty smart moves. like trying to alert the klingons they were on a rescue misssion

[polesee777]

That's why they need a bigger starship !

[FekLeyrTarg]

As a matter of fact, in the STSFA-version of the Kobayashi Maru, the klingons are that powerful, too.

[terrywest111]

I love how 1 torpedo hit in the simulator causes the helm station to explode. Well targeted man... really well targeted... lol.

[StoneKnivesBearskins]

Her ears are awful.

But then again, I'm used to Spock's perfect ears.

Am I the only one who doesn' like her ears? And WHY does she have human eyebrows?

Does anybody have an answer?

[DaftStrings]

I like how the klingons pwn the enterprise even while their shields are still up.

[workstrength]

Perhaps in both movies, the doctor is on the bridge in case one of the explosions ends up burning someone...

[Ashenion22]

Wow, the 2009 scene were Kirk was there (eating an apple, and had no worries whatsoever) was pretty awsome. At least the Klingon ships looked like what they were suppose to be, as well as the starship Kobayashi.

[StoneKnivesBearskins]

@Ashenion22 Would Kirk be allowed to eat anything while taking the test? Do you have an answer?

[Ashenion22]

@StoneKnivesBearskins Yes, indeed I do have an answear. Kirk was known as a "cocky", rebel type of a person, and would have been damned if anyone (ANYONE) would have told him what he could/could not bloody do. So, if there were fast food resturants there (replicated of course) Kirk would of had an entire lunch there when getting tested. ;)

[RingSight91]

@Ashenion22 Actually, Kirk eating at the bridge was all Abrams' idea. Apparently it was to spite some director or some other authority figure he knew that just hated the sound of someone eating apples around the set.

[mattsmt20]

You know those must be shitty shields if they are taking that kind of damage with shields up lol

[AEVautomatic]

wtf they use real explosives and blow people up to train?

[MrKittrider2000]

This happens to many people a no win situation.  The only way to win is alter situations leading up to the problem or self sacrifice for the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the needs of the one. The reverse is also truth the needs of the one amplifies the needs of the many. (One man can make a difference.)

[luigi19987]

the latest film is sort of cannon kirk is seen eating a apple just like this film also he acts like it is not a problem in star trek two it only explains that he cheated it did not say how in the latest film it shows what he did

[Iyoossaev]

@luigi19987 I almost understood it without punctuation, but actually not.

[BallieBallBunny]

Kristie Alley was so cute back then :)

[Eurrsk]

this simulation was more explosive than the new movie lol XD

[luigi19987]

@Eurrsk it does not matter

[TheJoeyD27]

Shes so fat now, she could never fit in the captain's chair anymore.

[gopconservative78]

Sulu looks gay

[sondano]

why doesn't Saavik have Vulcan/Romulan eyebrows? Alley didn't let them shave hers?

[thegamerman7]

Lol the consol fried that guys ass. I should make a Kobyashi Maru scenario in one of my star trek games. Prefferably bridge commander or star trek starfleet academy strategic command. I kows its not the same but it will be cool to say you beat it. Even tho you probobly wont.

[BondFreek]

I love this movie. When I saw it I thought Savik was 3/4 human but studied on Vulcan. I then read the souvenir book. (Back then all big budget movies had a souvenir book you could buy at the theater. This was the only one my mother bought for us.

[AZUFO1123]

acting wile acting!!!!!watch on vhs better!!!!

[qqqCYBERLEADERppp]

love this scene, makes me wanna watch this movie again =P

[Roelandtstorme]

Excellent scene. Very well done because it got leaked out that Spock was going to die in that movie. When you saw that scene you said, "Oh..." So when he did die it was still a surprise.

Saavik said, "Damn." The movie failed to mention that it was because she is half vulcan, half romulan, but we never heard that onscreen so most people don'e even know it.

[scifiactionbeyond]

well actually there was a comic where starfleet wanted her to be out of the academy because of that, but spock helped her so she could stay.

later on somewhere in the show of tng (i believe there was something familiar scenes as to the comic from that time..

[dukeofstradone]

half vulcan-half human!

[workstrength]

@Roelandtstorme leaked out?? In literary terms it's called 'foreshadowing'... happens all the time in good theatre/movies... Spock's 'death' was considered a practical story development because they didn't consider they'd be making Star Trek movies every few years for decades. With the criticism received from Star Trek I (Vger), they prepared also for the possibility of Khan being the last movie.

[dixievfd55]

@Roelandtstorme It was excellent foreshadowing.

[Ashenion22]

@Roelandtstorme was she really half Romulan as well?

[heavyarms01h]

@Roelandtstorme Well, they did make the scene - it got deleted. >_<;

[FekLeyrTarg]

@Roelandtstorme

Where was a scene which was filmed in which Spock mentions that Saavik ist half-romulan.

[commandox20]

HAH! It just occured to me who is doing the voice of the computer, Harve Bennett.

[nightwing4077]

Dude, That Cool!!!

[zigertube]

What made this scene fun for me when I saw it in the theatre way back then, is that I did not know the plot of the movie so I did not know that this was a training exercise in a bridge simulator.

[SequelReviews]

exactly :) unless your listening closely you can hear the name of the ship and find out :)

[DemonicVisage]

the kobayashi maru from the new movie is so much better than this, but this is still nice

why?

alert medical xD

should we, i dont know, fire back?

and he's eating an apple :D

[commandox20]

The Kobayashi Maru in the new movie was a complete waste of space.

[translucentorb]

new movie is for retards who need shit spoon fed to them. JJ Abrams just raped the shit outta that franchise.

[luigi19987]

@translucentorb you my freind are just a member of a group of none fans who are too stupid to understand jackass

[tsntana]

Saavik: "Any suggestions, Admiral?"

Kirk: "Prayer, Mr. Saavik, The Klingons don't take prisoners..."

[FabianTrahan]

Still the good stuff!

[chakotay24]

this scene is much better then the Kobeashimaru from The new movie

[commandox20]

Absolutely.

[XtranormalStatePlus]

@chakotay24 Every scene in Trek II is better than the new movie.

[christking07]

@XtranormalStatePlus Yes while Star Trek 2 is a great movie theres is no denying that.

But to say everything is better is a huge oversight.

[Trekfreek]

@XtranormalStatePlus Actually every scene in Trek V is better than the new movie. Come to think of it every scene in "Plan 9 from Outer Space" is better than the new movie.

[StoneKnivesBearskins]

@chakotay24 Partly because we get the real characters, not some fake actor people trying to be the characters, and partly because FakeKirk is REALLY annoying in that scene. :(

This scene is... is...

it's just better. :D

[PlayWithDaveyyy]

@chakotay24 Not at all...

[rexstube]

I always wondered why the neutral zone in this scene was pictured as a contained capsule that you could go around instead of a light-years long boundary that had to be crossed. The neutral zone is an obvious reference to a DMZ.

[AnacreoninHeaven]

Agreed. You'd think it would look more like a wall and be much larger. It can't be much of a buffer for the Klingons or the Federation if a ship like the Enterprise can fly most of the way through the zone in a few seconds.

My best guess is that we're seeing an abbreviated version of the test on film, and in "real life" Saavik and the crew took fifteen minutes to get to the Kobayashi Maru. And the Neutral Zone was correspondingly much larger.

[Iluthra]

Saavik's brows always bothered me in this film. Later, Robin Curtis would have the traditional brows. Why didn't Kirstie?

[Tanru2000]

She was supposed to be half-Romulan according to cut scene from the movie... but that doesn't really explain things as Romulans even in the original series had the eye-brows.

[nucguy007]

just trust me I would like to say I am Daphne Czarivich and Czarivich Daphenic Duke, and James T. Kirk should have been a BoyScout!

[nucguy007]

can they not just ask that Maru just transport them aboard at that distance while not in the neutral zone. But what is tranporter range while using line fo sight teleporting them aboard via the Main Dish Relay Antenna using Theorem two points make a line and just remember beam aboard and track thelifeforms aboard the Maru aboard the Enterprise.

[dashman70]

One thing I don't understand why enter the neutral zone at that distance? Why not skirt the edge to get closer to the Maru so you can get in and out faster?

[RazorVrakking]

I can't believe those Russians... uh I mean Klingons jammed all the frequencies!

[SpaceEmperorDarrell]

think of all the mainframes it took to make those circa-1980s computer graphics!

[ytbigjim]

This was the perfect opening scene to Star Trek 2.

[contessaoreilly]

Kirk, re programmed it, to pass the test at starfleet.

[Velikan121]

Why does the scrolling go from left to right?

[MrSinister1979]

I love this scene. One of the best bits of the best Trek movies :)