The Son-Rise Program vs. ABA: Key Differences Clip 1

[KHAN8531]

WOW YOU ARE AMAZING, i cried for joy to see how you turned sucsess.

[h4444m]

As a teacher, this has become one of my many motos: discourage parents from ABA whenever I can and NEVER suggest or even mention it to anyone.

[h4444m]

ABA has absolutely NO respect for children with ASD for who they are. Their focus is constantly on changing the child's behaviour, if we can call it that, but that's not what ABA looks at it!

[h4444m]

I "know" autism and, UNFORTUNATELY I was exposed to ABA as well. It is total BS!!!! They DO NOT understand autism. They focus on what "they" call behaviour, which is NOT at all even closely related to autism. I don't know about sunrise yet, but I know this for sure: DO NOT EVER USE ABA, because it's total BS!!!! and I cannot emphasize that enough.

[Ruggerschr]

And if by misguided you mean that I am letting the proven principles of behavior and actual results the child sees guide my teaching, rather than naming and excusing behavior due to some mentalistic view of its intent then sure, call me misguided. However, my approach to autism education is supported by scientific research and not a lot of circular thinking.

[Ruggerschr]

A self stimulating behavior is one that is self reinforcing. The behavior is followed by an environmental shift that motivates the behavior to recur more often under similar circumstances. In other words, the behavior feels good. You can use as many flowery made up mentalistic words you like to explain what needs to be done but the bottom line is when a child has other behavior that meets or exceeds the same or similar needs within that motivational context, the child will choose that behavior.

[Ruggerschr]

5:02: The idea that the goal of ABA is to extinguish stimming is a falshood. A stim is a child's way of entertaining himself when he does not have other more fun activities available. To take away a stim is to take away a child's current option of joy. ABA is about increasing joy in more social situations so that the child chooses to spend less time in solitary ones. Stims are only targeted for reduction when they are dangerous to the child, others, or interfere with learning or social goals.

[Neilgs]

@Ruggerschr You are indeed a misguided little one aren't you now. "A stim is a child's way of entertaining himself when he does not have more fun activities available", Really? As a developmental therapist/educator who extensively uses a DIR neuroscientific based approach it is unfortunately shamefully obvious that your understanding of sensory processing over, under and mixed-reactivities within proprioceptive, vestibular, visual-spatial processing, auditory, olfactory is not only NOT

[Neilgs]

Developmental, it is non-existent. It is not a matter that the child doesn't have "more fun activities available." It is a question of understanding (that is, Developmentally, and NOT in an ABA animal training, automata or bete machine manner), how the child orients and interprets affect sensory or emotional-sensory motor connections with others. This often means joining in his/her non-injurious "behaviors." Flapping, rocking, spinning, etc. which possesses MEANING to the child in PRESENT

[Neilgs]

tense. By doing so we are framing/conveying to the child that his/her actions are MEANINGFUL. Nor is this a means to an end. This is an actual fact. To do otherwise is to be resoundingly obtuse and blithely fail to appreciate a little item called Theory of Mind (that is the adult to the child's perspective, going to his/her world). When we do this we deepen attachment strengthen the foundations of reciprocal interactions (i.e., meaningful joint attention) and then theatrically add new affect

[Neilgs]

(playful) variations to the reciprocal social-emotional dynamic. These dyadic primary caregiver/child interactions (meaningful engagement) build the core foundations of thinking, relating and communicating. Not only does participation in the child's "stims" NOT interfere with learning or social goals, they help build the necessary foundation of healthy growth and development.

[Ruggerschr]

4:00 stating that ABA is about checking tasks off on a list and is not about supporting parents and families in wrong. Read my book and you will see that this is not the case at all. Our ABA/VB program is 100% parent training based.

[Neilgs]

@Ruggerschr Unfortunately ABA as a whole does very little to support educating families (as well as I dare say many therapists and educators) on what ACTUALLY constitutes the necessary and healthy foundations of emotional-cognitive social growth and development. The core neurodevelopmental challenges of thinking, relating and communicating involves deepening attachment; prelinguistic/affective nonverbal foundations of Meaningful engagement and caregiver affect relationship patterns.

[Ruggerschr]

ABA was not developed by Lovaas for clinicians. 3:33 seconds in and you are either wrong or lying. Lovaas, developed his interpretation of ABA for use in Children with Autism and is nothing more than the approach that he has taken and taught on ABA for this population. He did not develop ABA and his approach is not even the basis of anything ABA. It is nothing more than one persons approach to teaching children with Autism based on the principles of ABA.

[Blushie753]

the second thing, you mentioned that you see autism as a Social disorder. how would you improve a child's daily living skills through increasing the bond between them and parents?

third, you said you had autism and you were completely treated. how did the son-rise program help you end up as normal as anybody else? don't you do your "stems" anymore?

[Blushie753]

amazing how the clip is focused on touching the emotions of the parents " this program is for parents to parents, it's a child centered program, don't u want your child be with u and connect with you?" . However, you didn't mention any evidence about the efficiency of the program . Aren't there any researches that support that?

[bandobendi87crosby]

Dear Ron- I am a speech pathology student and I've got a question...is the Son Rise Program a guaranteed "cure" for all autistic children? Won't they always have autism? I'm still just starting out in this field and I'm glad to hear of other viewpoints. Hoping to get as much information as possible. Thank you!

[mamalusk]

I feel that everything Son Rise is sounds great - EXCEPT the promise of a cure. How can you almost promise (by saying that you yourself was cured) that your program can cure autism, a biological and neuropsychiatric disorder???) I have no doubt that you can help these jids get a much better life - but I feel that the promise of a total cure may be a false one...

[SuzanneTaylor]

ABA does not take a specific stance on excessive self stimulatory behavior. (WE ALL DO IT!) If it interferes with the child's learning or social participation it is often targeted for reduction.

[Neilgs]

Dear Suzanne, as a developmental DIR based special educator (many of the same basic principles in Son-Rise),that is exactly the point, and you are Not realizing it. It SHOULD NOT be viewed as "interfering" or interferences with the child's learning. Self-stimulatory perseverative behaviors (as long as they are NOT self or other injurious), should (in fact from a developmental perspective) be joined with. This deepens attachment. When we begin to attribute meaning to the child's existing

[Neilgs]

"behaviors" (or more accurate underlying affect sensory based challenges) we begin to not only deepen (primary caregiver/child) attachment but create the possibility of deepening co-narrative meaning making. Increased affect regulation and emotional signaling based upon two-way emotional problem-solving and pleasurable based interactions. This addresses affective gestural reciprocity (preverbal dynamics) which are crucial and forms the basis of integration (strengthening of synaptic connectivity

[Neilgs]

and expressive (spontaneous language/communication), as opposed to prompted or targeted responses mechanical produced on cue. I am not speaking from a detached perspective. I have worked with hundred on toddlers with minor to severe ASD using similar methodologies, at least adhering to the same basic emotional attachment and empathic underlying principles which are in direct accord with the latest research findings on neuroplasticity; deepening connections between, limbic and prefrontal..

[kbarrett24]

ABA was developed by Dr LOVAAS??? That is inaccurate.

[jillmclaury]

There are so many inaccurate statements in this clip; I don’t even know where to begin. Oh wait, maybe it’s with the fact that you don’t even have the name right. It’s Applied Behavior Analysis, not Behavioral! The analysis isn’t behavioral; it’s an analysis of behavior!

[PatriceStrange]

I don't think that you have a true definition of ABA. What was your resource for your understanding of ABA? Perhaps, you should contact Dr. Jerry Shook, Dr. Jose Martinez -Diaz, Dr. Charles Mace, Dr. Jack Michael or Dr. Brian Iwatta. Too bad you have run into poor information...

[kenreeve32]

Actual key differences: 1000s of empirical peer-reviewed studies support numerous techniques in ABA to teach many different social, play, academic, self-care, and language skills, among others. ABA is recommended by numerous organizations such as the American Academy of Pediatrics, the U.S. Surgeon General, the Association for Science in Autism Treatment, and others. Unlike the Son-Rise approach, rigorous training for professionals in ABA is available at reputable universities.

[kenreeve32]

Based on his own report, he has heard from thousands of parents about what is being done in ABA programs. Isnt it likely that Mr. Kaufman is only hearing from parents who are dissatisfied with ABA? Wouldnt that bias what he hears about ABA? His description of ABA is very different from my experiences as a professional in the field.

[kenreeve32]

While I appreciate Mr. Kaufman's enthusiasm, I think it is important to differentiate these two different approaches to autism treatment by having a panel discussion between Mr. Kaufman and a well regarded professional in the field of ABA. I cannot speak to the differences between the two programs because I have not received training in the Son-Rise approach. By the same token, I do not believe that Mr. Kaufman has received any training in ABA from an accredited source.

[wellsfamilysd]

I'm a Behavior Specialist ,I have had been involved in legal procedings that involve the implementation of the Son-rise program. It was determined that a school district ABA program had much more independent reseach to support its findings than the Son-rise program. If the ABA only had one independent study that showed some sort of effect on students that would be more than the Son-rise program has. If this is not correct please point me in direction of the independent research.

[rakelzosk]

do you remember when you where little with autism?? I rememberwhen i was yonger than 2 years of age..

[bosquecat]

I am a SW who works with children with autism. I have learned about the Son-Rise program through a family I work with who went to the Autism Treatment Center. I am introducing the program with other families as well. Some of the families I am introducing it with also have ABA. Is it possible to use both interventions, especially if the ABA therapist is more liberal and aren't strict with extinguishing certain autism behaviors?

Thank you for your time.