Ahistory...Thunderfoot, Freedom of Speech and Skin in the Game

[DontBendOverForAllah]

GOOGLE

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Muslims against terrorism = 707000

Nazis against fascism = 2150000

Bush against War = 5350000

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btw racism against blacks was created by and is sustained by Islam. Islam says the prophet IS the perfect role model, was white and kept black slaves. Muhammad also said black women represent disease. Anyone who objects to the the use of blacks as slaves (which Islam still does today) is therefore Islamophobic.

[Elvisdogg]

Islam codifies execution of homosexuals, torture and murder of unfaithful women, wife-beating etc. Islam suppresses criticism via death threats. Because all these things are immoral, islam must be rebuked in public. And that rebuking must include the moderates, as they're delusional too. Pakistan pulls the plug? not the fault of honest people who stand up to criticize islam. It's the fault of the Pakistan govt, they're the ones who pulled the plug. Point the finger at them, why dont you?

[time0is0a0myth]

thank you so much. you have brought to my attention "white privilege". something i knew existed but didnt know if there was a term to explain it. just like social darwanism...i knew it existed but didnt know there was a term for it.

[Anekantavad]

This is the true insanity of the Pat Condell/Thunderf00t set. The real victims in all this are the Muslims ceaselessly working to head off a "Clash of Civilizations" and maintain peace between the two. By vilifying Islam per se, these people are left out on a clothesline when they try to tell their own people that the west really isn't so bad.

[CityzenJane]

@Anekantavad Thanks for the great comments...and yes that's very much what I was trying to get at...those people on the front lines...those with skin in the game...and yes some of them are "white."

I agree it's stretch - but this whole thing reminded me so much of the insistence some white folks have on their right to use the N word...certainly abstractly that right does exist...excercise it if your aim is to poison the space between as much as fucking possible.

[CityzenJane]

It also makes me ill that so many grown ass men are making such a poor show of behaving as if they actually care about anything but the Ka'ching from views and the stroking of their egos by fawning fellating fan boys.

Completely unimpressed.

[Anekantavad]

@CityzenJane Quite. As I always say, I have the right to be rude to little old ladies and to give threatening looks to little children. But it certainly isn't moral to do either.

[Cimbolic]

Excellent.

[AutodidacticPhd]

I love how so many theories about racism perpetuate racism. White privilege is a red herring. Privilege in most societies comes from conformity. Conform to the most important aspects and you get the freedom to be eccentric on the others. The value of race in the conformity in our society is on the slide. Tf could have been asian, black, indian, whatever, and made the same comments in the US with more or less the same results. You want to see real racial privilege? Try Israel, Iran or Japan.

[CityzenJane]

@AutodidacticPhd Can you elaborate?

Also - did you see the video that started all this?

[Anekantavad]

@AutodidacticPhd White privilege might be a generalization, but it is by-and-large a sound concept IMO. 150 years ago in N America, blacks and Irish were utterly despised. The Irish today almost never suffer discrimination (I am Irish-Canadian, and I have never suffered for it), but blacks can't make the same claim. Why do you suppose this is?

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad Then you're still seeing the world through race. Much of the vocal, self proclaimed representatives of "the black community" are too, so if all you do is watch TV, it isn't any surprise. But I've met too many well educated people of every background who agree that having a degree and being well spoken is a bigger influence than skin on how they live their life and how they are perceived... the flip side, I know plenty of poor white folk that can't seem to live down a strong accent.

[CityzenJane]

@AutodidacticPhd Thanks for elaborating. I certainly don't only see the world only through the lense of race. I do think there is much more in play here - but I am sure we are not 'beyond race' by any means. And I see racism and white privilege in play here.

I moved from a predominantly Black community in NY to a rural ranching community of less than three hundred which is all white. If a brown person comes through it makes news.

[CityzenJane]

A lot of these folks would in fact be the victim of all sorts of prejudice because they are white and rural when they head to the city. That fact doesnt eradicate the fact that Thunderfoot and his gang are engaging in hateful rhetoric about an entire group which is perceived by most people as brown.. and are treated as if they are all terrorists if they are visible Muslim. White Muslims do not get treated the same way and are not subject to outburst of racist attacks because of racist rhetoric.

[AutodidacticPhd]

@CityzenJane Funny how I only said the concept of white privilege is racist and you seem to think that means I agree 100% with Tf. Not a very direct causal connection if you ask me. Is it?

[Anekantavad]

@AutodidacticPhd I live in a city with a very powerful race divide - in my case between native Canadians and pretty much everyone else. My ex-gf is very "native-looking", including how she dresses. You ought to see the looks we got from both sides of the divide. "Her" community for my allegedly taking sexual advantage of one of "their" women, and from "my" community for openly engaging in something euphemistically called Black Velvet. I didn't learn any of that from TV.

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad As you say, including how she dresses, where she lives, etc. You also mentioned the fact the you both get pressure from both sides... funny, but that doesn't sound like one side the winning side. I never said race isn't a factor; I said that the concept of white privilege is racist. The fact is, distinctions among communities are built on behavior and association at least as much as on the colour of skin. If a person fits in in all other ways, skin matters less.

[Anekantavad]

@AutodidacticPhd I agree, but "racism" is one of those words that never really meant what they were meant to, with the possible exceptions of Nazi Germany, US Segregation and apartheid. By this definition, anti-semitism or hatred of hispanics isn't racism at all. "Racism" today generally means harmful or hurtful generalizations about people based upon race or culture. White people still generally come off rather well in today's world, no?

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad It's a matter of perspective, because of history, people of European decent tend to have a familial head start in terms of education, family money and cultural normalization... if you leveled THOSE numbers, I suspect that the numbers based on visually identifiable race would shrivel dramatically (not completely to be sure), but far more than most of the noise would have us believe. People who come from have, get... THAT is the real trend.

[AutodidacticPhd]

...cont

In other words, this is class privilege... which is basically an oxymoron. By insisting on giving class strife a racial tint, you simply insure that both problems will persist and feed off one another.

[Anekantavad]

@AutodidacticPhd If we leveled those numbers, we'd have no discrimination based upon anything at all. This is not IMO likely to happen anytime soon, and the reason for that have at least something to do with race and creed.

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad Then you already have a problem. If you divide actual population data by income level, the distinctions among race within each new subdivision shrink. ie, the racial distribution of people who move to a different income level from their parents match the overall racial distribution within that subcategory.

As for race and creed being the same animal... I don't buy that either. Beliefs and phenotypes are two completely different subjects.

[Anekantavad]

@AutodidacticPhd I am saying that race automatically informs income level, since white people (generally) already start with a leg up. People are not born equal, and that IMO is the Achilles' Heel of libertarianism. Leveling the playing field is likely to be as successful as any other attempt at social engineering.

Finally, I don't believe that race and creed are really the same. But racism and bigotry have precious little to do with science or fact.

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad And I'm saying that is racist and the reverse of the actual situation. The leg up is an historic artifact, and the longer people try to pretend there is more to it than that, the longer the problem is going to persist... yes, I'm saying YOU are just as responsible for perpetuating the situation as any more conventional racist. And I have plenty of friends of all shades that would be happy to tell you that to your face... just like they told me.

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad Maybe this will clear things up. The idea of white privilege is the modern equivalent of the tragic hero of ancient Greek epics. So completely self obsessed that everything, even their apologies have to be about them. You are so sure that being white is the only way to effect the world that even when you pretend to overcome racism it's still all about you. Truly pathetic.

[Anekantavad]

@AutodidacticPhd That is a very strange thing to say, since you know nothing about me, apart from a few posts on Youtube. I wonder why people seem so quick to judge people they don't even know. In a way, I think that this tendency is ultimately responsible for every conflict there has ever been.

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad First off, the "you" in that description is intended to operate at the group level... a group to which you belong as it is basically the set of all people who embrace that rather obnoxious idea. My judgment is reserved for an idea... and by taking that judgment upon yourself so readily, you only serve to demonstrate exactly the egocentric quality I was originally just assigning to the school of thought. The sources of conflict are an entirely different ball of wax.

[Anekantavad]

@AutodidacticPhd I belong to a group? Nobody asked me if I wanted to join, and any "group" that exists is IMO only in your head. Not only that, but something as nuanced as "white guilt" is not really something one can generalize about. It means different things to different people, and I rather suspect that you and I would discover that we are probably not talking about the same thing.

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad Of course you belong to a group, you belong to several groups whether you feel like it or not. The set of all humans, for example. You are defending a controversial idea quite ardently, so you belong to the set of all people who do so. Yeah, I'm sure it's "nuanced" Mr Nofixedposition, but at the end of the day, we aren't talking about how colourless ideas sleep... topics in race relations are descriptive, and their meanings have only a little true wiggle room.

[Anekantavad]

@AutodidacticPhd This is precisely why I say that trying to nail down someone`s position is almost guaranteed to cause conflict, or at least misunderstanding. I think it is a bit lunatic to arbitrarily ascribe someone to a group composed of people s/he has never met. What other "groups" do I belong to? Implicit in your argument is the possibility that I belong to as many groups as there are people. If I belong to 7bil groups, and so does everyone else, "groups" are meaningless, no?

[AutodidacticPhd]

@Anekantavad That's a really weak argument coming from the guy defending a sociological concept based on arbitrary, externally assigned group identification. Each number in the Cantor Set conceivably belongs to an infinite number of other sets, does that make the Cantor Set meaningless? Grouping is an organizational tool, and very often the criteria used to define a group implies membership of some other groups and exclusion to yet others. Rocket science this ain't.

[fantasy0coach]

Talk about misguided sensationalist bullshit. What Pakistan or anyone did in reaction to this is Pakistan's act. What consequences come from their actions is Pakistan's fault.

Drawing cartoons is not the culprit, nor is it a danger to pakistan freedom from religion groups. Pakistan's religious regime.....is their danger. Complain about them, not harmless Tf or any other justified protester.

[TheSensuousAtheist]

"Only whites... can afford to be as loud and beligerent without consequence." Er, not really. Note that Theo Van Gogh was loud and belligerent, got the consequences, while Ayaan Hirsi Ali went unscathed. "well and fucked"? Yeah... and maybe Pakistani moderates will finally act against the apparent theocracy there.

[CityzenJane]

@TheSensuousAtheist So just like the Kurds - when Bush Sr said - RISE UP - WE have your back.... and then didn't ...

Individuals attacked Van Gogh - not a state and not a religion.

My point is that Tfoot is dead wrong about lumping moderate Muslims with extremists - and now it is MUCH harder for them to organize.

And this war that was supposed to 'liberate' all those poor benighted savages....what is it nearly 9 years now? And how many dead?

[Anekantavad]

@TheSensuousAtheist Just on a lark, go look at how often the reverse of Theo van Gogh's death takes place, and make a comparison. How many members of a visible minority in Europe have been assaulted, killed or otherwise harmed just because of what they looked like?

[Boucrate]

Yea it's easy to be a internetz Rebel lol! In real life it's another story.

Indeed you are revealing things that propaganda (or basic ignorance) doesn't want us to think about or simply accept. Some are giving there life to barely reach bits of the freedom most of us white people have. Great video!

[BooterGoneMad2010]

w00t way to go. I've caught me some troll. Apparently my latest video about ThunderChrist didn't go over to well.

[tattooskin72]

excellent video :)

[xxxild]

Woot! Favorited!

[NubianTribesman]

interesting video