3 QUESTIONS 911 TRUTHERS DON'T WANT YOU TO ASK THEM:
Since the govt. committed 9/11, why arent truthers demanding the release of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is on trial for his life for a crime truthers claim he did not commit?
If there was no flight 93, please explain how 95% of the plane debris was recovered?
If there was no flight 77, please explain how 130+ witnesses reported seeing a plane?
@ctcole77 How should I know? I know that your CoIntel deeds on the web does - and you're even admitting it with your CAPITAL adressing of how important it is for debunkers to unite in an effort to block a new investigation.
You seem - serious about it. So is 9/11 truth - dead serious. And you know it. Oh yeah, you know it, creepy nazionist fascist punk whining about voting for Obama - the AIPAC controlled puppet.
@ctcole77 I think you're wrong; it was stupid conspiracy theorists blaming W alone for it until 2004. Then experts really got in stage and since 2006 with AE911Truth it is no longer about stupid people wanting to feel smart. It's about a rising amount of perfectly normal people discovering - mot at least thousands of architects, engineers and sientists - that critizising the official story and demanding a real investigation cannot in it self be called "conspiracy teory."
@Dymdez Jesus Christ. The occupy movement is under total control by the globalists who also have made you think that there's any difference between Bush and Obama.
There's nothing dangerous to the banksters about the Occupy movement. It's all in it place where it should be - with the "lefties" occupyers ALSO buying into the official story - excactly as the banksters want them.
Btw WHAT "insane theory" are you talking about?? The only one insane is the official unproven one.
Howard Zinn is a jew protecting his tribe. So is Noam Chomsky, Amy Goodman, and Naomi Klein. All these gatekeepers also happen to be jewish, and it is not a coincidence.
Watch _9/11 Missing Links_ to see the massive amount of evidence connecting Israel to 9/11.
Howard Zinn? A CIA Operative? Oh, that is the funniest shit I have ever heard! LMAO. Try and understand what he means by "I don't care." Even if 911 was some vast cospiracy, no one will ever be able to prove it. Like he said, "it's a dead end. What's more important is that people hate us because of our foreign policy." What about the embassy bombings, the first WTC attack in 93. Were those conspiracies? Oh, nice job of quote mining Zinn ("I don't care about the past") that's out of context.
Zinn, Chomsky, the whole thing is just pretend. More Fonzie than Trostsky. A way for upper middle class "rebels" to stick it to Daddy or that popular jock that flicked your ear in high school. But please don't stop. I want you to hit 45 and realize the revolution isn't coming. By the way HOT TOPIC is selling a sweet CHE T-shirt. Go to the mall and get yours now Comrads!
You can always tell the phony opposition CIA operatives like Howard Zinn, Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky by the way that they respond to the question of government.
Howard Zinn is a jackbooted Communist fuck who is going to burn in hell for all eternity. I'd like to punch him in his lying Hitlerian mouth.
And ho the hell are these people --people in a university --who applaud the statement that 'I don't care' if 911 was a govt conspiracy. It's like saying I don't care if the cook put arsenic in the soup I'm being served. That's in the past.' IDIOTS!!
I can't express my disappointment at Zinn. And how hiw words must gall him. These people have received phone calls and they're scared as hell. How else to explain how Howard Zinn could talk like this?
We don't need the truth about 9-11 to focus our attention on the criminal Bush administration??? How dare this man, Howard Zinn, play his game with us and then tun around and ask us to actively turn away from something we saw. What is Zinn afraid of? What is Chomsky afraid of? What is everyone so afraid of.
There is a primordial aversion to looking into the jaws of this evil crime. Why?
911 WAS and continues to be an inside job.
Get on the right side of history and demand a new investigation.
Assume for a minute that a jew commie really burned the reichtstag, does that fundamentally change anything?
Assume the thousands of soldiers that died in the name of 9/11 in iraq and afghanistan are well documented and more easily verifiable than what happened in 2001?
Assume, just for a second, that 1973 had its own at least equally important 9/11.
Just assume that for a second, and think about what matters.
This is a worthless argument and 9/11 truth deniers will be left in the dust to the misfortune of all of us who want people fighting the good fight about what is really happening. We need everyone on deck with a clear view of how a shadow government is operating to consolidate total world power. I hope that you can stop hiding in your rationalizations. Join us against the rogue network who are trying to whip the whole planet into a frenzy of war by playing all sides against each other.
those are not the exact words and i need more than a 5sec clip to judge him.
taken from wiki: Les écrits de Zinn s'inspirent du marxisme, de l'anarchisme, et de la pensée social-démocrate. Depuis les années 1960, il est un acteur de premier plan du mouvement des droits civiques comme du courant pacifiste aux États-Unis.
très très intéressant. ca m'incite à me renseigner sur
Unbelievable!!!! "Thats past..." EVERY event is past you dumbass! This guy has NO credibility and should not even be on a stage speaking to people. Maybe when the NEXT black op happens and someone he cares about dies will he start caring about "the past"!!!!
Another thing that's funny about it is, from now on, if anyone questions his hypocritical, dishonest, traitorous comments, the old bastard will respond by saying they are the fanatics he speaks of. Laugh the Fuck out loud. What a criminal mind control stance this demon has on his lefty worshipers. Doesnt matter, he's revealed his true position as a left gatekeeper, and he's ours now. When the criminals hang for their crimes, he will stand trial too, and he will hang for accessory after the fact
Those guys clapping at the end.. "let's drop the 9/11 subject, forget about it" Clap clap clap... Right before he says we should just drop it.. he says he do not know what happened on that day.. and that he does not trust the official story...
That's pretty lame. How will America ever "grow" if they can not correct their mistakes.. find the root of the problems.. etc etc.. Many people wants to fix this.. Many simply does not care.. :/
Howard Zinn the an American-jewish 'historian.' Strange how at this Montreal spkg event,as he spoke of American history,he chose tonot mention:how Bush's grandfthr,PrescottBush,funded Hitler's war machine;that the Nazi's IG Farben (the petrochemical firm fueling their warmachine) were the 2nd largest stockholders behind Standard Oil/NewJersey which blocked vital resources for the allies;the1998 Memphis civil trial that found rogue elements of the USgovt complicit in the murder of MLK.
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They could have chosen any attacks...but went with these? Not the Statue of Liberty or the U.N. or any public event that might claim comparable numbers?
Also, why, if their war on terror was designed as concerned with WMD (the PNAC was all about this stuff), why was the attack a conventional hijacking turned suicide mission ...with no WMD involved?
Why, if they could choose ANY 19 identities to frame for the attacks...would they choose only individuals from allied nations?
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Look no further than the HYSTERICAL responses to that which I have written for evidence of the level of paranoia and fanaticism that exists in the CT community. This is nothing compared to what Zinn (et al.) are faced with, and it is incredible in its own light.
How long did it take CTers here and on several other commentary pages, to INVENT a conspiracy theory to explain my posting here? It never takes long - ALL VOICES OF DISSENT ARE IMMEDIATELY discounted as supporters of the status quo.
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...if not full-blooded agents of deception and "disinfo".
It is this sort of intimidation (this is another prime example of how CT parallels religion) tactic helps drive conspiracy to the greater and greater extremes.
The aim is to push those reticent to accept authoritarian control to part ways with their reservations by forcing them to prove their distaste for a common enemy.
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C: Do you really enjoy sucking your neocon masters cock? Get out of here you fucking disinfo agent fuck.
A: Are you people crazy?
C: Zionist. Your type will be the first to pay when judgment day arrives - you will only realize too late when the NWO takes the stage. Then you will regret challenging we wise men of YouTubia.
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I was responding to your aggressive action (again, I was present about four seats down from the mic) and the aggression and willful distortion of events in your video here.
Your attempts to appear reasonable and even sensitive from point A on are comical.
I have no problem whatsoever in withdrawing from rejoinders with you, but I will continue to reject any effort on your part to paint me as the one who was first unreasonable or impolite.
While Zinn is speaking of 9/11 as all in the past, many of us are better able to discern the true nature of incidents like the one in Mumbai because we bothered to learn about the system of moles and patsies that were evident in the events of 9/11. Let Zinn take part in the dismissal and disinfo. He can eat our dust.
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And what can you discern about Mumbai because of your interpretation of 9/11?
"Let Zinn take part in the dismissal and disinfo. He can eat our dust."
See, this where you lose the vast majority of rational people - the freewheeling nature of your broad accusations and disparaging remarks. It is not enough for him to be uninterested in the truther movement, or for you to even be angry at him for condemning what you see as meaningful action...but immediately the apostate, once identified...
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...must be cast out, tarred and feathered and accused of betrayal and working for the enemy.
This sort of fanaticism is no doubt part of the reason Zinn responded the way he did in Montreal. One can only imagine how many truther soldiers flooded his inbox with attacks (like those seen here - accusations of being a Zionist Jew, a traitor and neocon, a disinfo agent and imperialist, a left gatekeeper and charlatan) ...in just the time from Colorado (where he was far more diplomatic).
Ahh, the evening shift for the troll has begun again! A person who uses all of their skills of persuasion to compulsively placate their own denial. I needed some comic relief after a long day. Thanks.
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Yes, the age old tactic of bully posturing. Age old in that it is juvenile and is another example of a total lack of engagement or perhaps even an ability to engage someone in debate.
What denial am I perpetuating here, my friend? Please inform me. Please give me an example of a piece of evidence that you believe I have improperly rejected.
You made claims that wars were started on 9/11 and I pointed out that historically speaking you were the one defending the status quo.
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I find this a curious characteristic of the CTers - a habit of defending the way things were BEFORE. It was no surprise that so many CTers were rushed into the hyper-capitalist-nationalist net of the American libertarian during the election. The CT tradition has its strongest roots in the conservative, isolationist, nativist and nationalist end of the spectrum.
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Those in the forefront of the CT industry are always eager to wax philosophical about how the noble US has been "hijacked" by a dastardly group who has betrayed the vision of the Founding Fathers.Many CT websites are bedecked in nationalist regalia and flags and colonial imagery. They invert the journey and weep over what has been lost instead of what has been gained...ignoring that what those in power wish to do is to RETURN US TO OUR UN-DEMOCRATIC PAST (the same one that CTers wax poetic over
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A time when the vast majority could not even cast a ballot...when the slave and land-owning corporate class was that of the kindly fathers. A time before democratic gains that we struggled for AGAINST the will of the ruling class.
There is no question (I truly believe that all of us can coalesce on at least this point) - 911, regardless of the perpetrators, was exploited to take from us many of our gains, in the name of "defense", "Security" and "national interests"...
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...but to argue that 9/11 marked the beginning of some great shift in policy (other than the conscious assault on world law or anything that might impede a unipolar world led by the US) is ludicrously short-sighted. While they were given a freer hand, none of these policies began post 9-11.
For the record - I believe the natural state of man is liberty, and that all governments move towards tyranny.
You're not stupid. You even offer some insights of partial truth amidst your flailing denial and reactivity. If you want to join with Zinn in minimizing the importance of spotting and educating others about false flag operations and behind-the-scenes oligarchical rule, have at it! I know what my rallying cry is and its not imperative that people like yourself agree with me.
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"I know what my rallying cry is and its not imperative that people like yourself agree with me. "
Well, believe it or not there is a part of me that greatly respects that.
"If you want to join with Zinn in minimizing the importance of spotting and educating others about false flag operations and behind-the-scenes oligarchical rule, have at it!"
Fine, except that I do believe it foolish to paint either Zinn or myself as being internally inconsistent if we SIMPLY DO NOT AGREE...
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..with those who claim 9/11 was a false flag operation. It certainly is not out of a devotion to some comforting dream where the government would never even think of doing such a thing...in fact, much of my opposition to the conspiracy theory is due to the fact that I believe the masters so masterful that such a crude assault on the people is actually UNNECESSARY to manufacture consent. For me it would be too much of a risk and something they would have found a way of extracting from the people
You give these guys far more credit than I do. I think that the oligarchy is a bunch of sadistic murdering careless decadent scum. 9/11 was a sloppy, sloppy inside job driven by arrogance and desperation.
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They are incredibly sloppy while simultaneously confident that their brilliant subterfuge will extend into perpetuity, allowing for them all to retire gracefully and enjoy the fruits of their diabolical acts? How can they be assured that all subsequent administrations will dutifully guard their dark secret? I assume they are all a part of the same sinister oligarchy?
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Also, what is it that you believe transpired? Are you of the LIHOP or MIHOP stripe? Do you believe that planes were hijacked or were they drones (or holograms or missiles)? Do you believe there were bombs in the buildings? What do you understand their goal to have been?
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Who exactly is taking the time give each and every post of mine a thumb's down? What a pathetic crowd. Really...why bother...who gives a shit about the little thumbs?
Of course they made it happen on purpose. Details? Well, there are a number of possibilities, but nineteen fundamentalists successfully hitting three targets with hijacked planes is not one of them.
How exactly could we avoid a fruitless discussion about the details of 9/11? You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe. Surely you've had this argument before. You know where it goes.
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So...basically you are saying that you and others wish to chastise Zinn for not taking seriously your fixed-yet-vague wildly implausible conspiracy theory (the lack of plausibility is likely central to his rejection of it), but at the same time avoid having to defend the theory he is being attacked for criticizing?
Yes, I know where it goes...the CTers always back off because they have no glue with which to paste together their disparate nuggets of half-truths, lies and distortions.
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So, we have a terrorist incident made-to-order ...one that could have had ANY targets and ANY perpetrators and the Evil Cabal decides to highlight CAPITALISM (WTC) and IMPERIALISM (Pentagon) even though its "official story" will be "they hate us for our freedoms"? They then downplay the Pentagon strike for the next seven years such that few people even recognize it as a target of the 9/11 hijackers. The WTC is not mentioned, only the brave firefighters and the office workers of NYC.
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Precisely how is this any different from any other argument by any other person? I could say the same about you and your truther friends. Why do you put so much time into a dead argument?
Yes, they are all working for the same sinister oligarchy. That is correct.
And, they CAN'T be assured of the extension of their will and fortune into perpetuity. They will likely crumble under the weight of their own insanity, greed, and arrogance.
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Is there any reason you have not responded to my query as to what, basically, you believe transpired and why? I was not requesting a detailed court-worthy case study, I merely wish to avoid assuming things about what you do believe.
I get the feeling you are MIHOP and believe there were bombs in the building. What I do not know is whether or not you believe planes were manned by human beings.
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This ignores two further facts: 9/11 was hardly made to order and many contortions were needed to translate an attack by religious zealots operating from the territories of nominal and literal allied nations (Afghanistan, UAE, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Philippines) into a green light for an attack on the Secular Arab Nationalist, Saddam Hussein. The U.S. had been at war with Hussein for at least a decade (though they had worked to maintain his power through sanctions).
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The sanctions were brutal enough to incapacitate any potential Shia uprising (the people became utterly dependent on Hussein), while Hussein's military was simultaneously castrated (though it had already been through war). Meanwhile the US/UK allowed for oil smuggling and all matter of abuses that enriched only Hussein and his cronies.
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And yet when they finally went in to Iraq to change the guard, the US was in the same position as they had been at the end of the Gulf War - no idea how to replace Hussein without playing into Iran's hands.
They now find themselves defeated and doing just that.
Yeah, 9/11 is "all in the past". Granted the police-state department of "homeland security" would not exist without the 9/11 premise. Nor would wars in two theatres. Nor would the Patriot Act. If we're actually under attack by a shadow-dwelling oligarchy (and we are) it kind of matters. This is utter idiocy at best and disinfo at worst.
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Zinn did not say that it was all in the past.
So, your claim is that the shadow-dwelling oligarchy launched 9/11 (and in doing so placed all of their lives on the line) to throw together an additional level of police bureaucracy and enforcement...and place troops in Iraq. Those two theaters of war were already there, the only changes are troops and a new leadership (plus hundreds of thousands of dead and untold numbers of wounded). This is ignorance at its worst.
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From where did you pull your imaginary quote? I see quotation marks, but I have not been privy to this statement before.
What he said, stumbling for the right words:
"I don't care that much about its [INCOMPLETE SENTENCE DROPS OFF/IS CUT OFF BY] - That's past... [INCOMPLETE IDEA] I, I don't really... [applause] To me..to me that's a diversion."
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He NEVER FINISHED THE SENTENCE "I don't care that much about its" and that the word he stopped on was "its" with an S, denoting a poss. pronoun meaning, not "it".
You are not even experiencing difficulty with reality, you are actively distorting it so that you can hear what you wish to hear.
Anyone can listen to the last seven seconds of this video and hear what he said for themselves. "Do I believe that the government was in a conspiracy to do this? I don't know. I don't know enough about the situation and the truth is I don't care that much about..its.. that's passed." You are devoting a ridiculous amount of time to blatant denial.
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If it was so obvious why did you choose to alter his words so dramatically? I have no problem discussing the meaning of his words, but only as long as they be the words that he actually spoke.
And yes, it does come down to interpretation - I feel that I know what he meant by his words because I know that he would never bluntly state that he did not care about something simply because it was in the past. To me it is clear that his emphasis was on the fact that he was not interested in...
Again, the words spoken in the last twenty seconds are as follows: "Do I believe that the government was in a conspiracy to do this? I don't know. I don't know enough about the situation and the truth is I don't care that much about..its.. that's passed." Any idiot can side step this fruitless waste of a thread and judge for themselves.
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Oh, the idiots will and they do...and mostly only idiots will ever see this video, because most of them will be directed here by their fellow idiots.
As for their ability to judge for themselves...well, that is not so evident. Being framed in "Montreal 911 TRUTH CONFRONTS...", with key words like "gatekeeper", a small editorial in the sidebar, and this video being embedded on ONLY conspiracy websites... is it any surprise that the "interpretation" witnessed here has been so utterly homogeneous?
Youre really asking me why I question the motives of the length of your posts after you just painted the entire message board once again with disinfo garbage consisting of 10 consecutive 500 character posts within several minutes. Youre a fucking hopeless clown pretending you dont know what a left gatekeeper is. Oh no, there you go again, asking people to respond to you when you dont even care what you're talking about either. Your job is just to write and write and write. Where's my voodoo doll
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I placed "left gatekeepers" in quotations in order to make clear that derision was intended, not because I was pretending "not to know" what it was. Contempt for is not the same thing as ignorance.
I do care about what I am writing...I don't actually care about what you are writing...however, it is entertaining.
I won't bother replying to you from now on if that makes you feel better.
Just curl up with your voodoo doll, insert your thumb and rock yourself back to sleep.
Its PURE EVIL when the left gatekeepers send large groups of liberals into a strange dichotomous trance where they, at one single moment, feel like they have investigated an issue and arrived at a determination of its significance without lifting a finger or a brain cell. Just by taking the time to listen to one of their thought-leaders say 9/11 doesn't matter, is enough to give them pride in that position as if they had arrived to it on their own after years and years of research. Must be nice
Inside Job's got the right idea, I suppose. We'll battle Horseytown's signature 5000 character posts of disinfo and confusion, with equally long posts of basic rationale and the sound logic of exposing false-flag terrorism. Whats so sad about Left Gatekeeping is that the minds that are held up by the Left Gate are the more gifted thinkers the world has to offer.
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dtoma - all you done here is bleated like an infant and endlessly reiterated some variation or another of dreary, barely coherent gibberish concerning "left gatekeepers". Do you even realize that you have been harping on about how many characters are in my posts for close to a week now?
Why not, since you are there anyway, please explain what you have uncovered about 9/11. Just a single point that might serve to "wake up" those who have not yet been stirred.
What really happened on 9/11 is not a distraction, it is the key to everything:
Without 9/11 there would be no Military Commissions Act and no coordinated program of extraordinary rendition, indefinite detention and torture of those defined as enemy combatants.
Without 9/11 there would be no vast increase in secrecy and complete militarization of intelligence under the newly created office of the Director of National Intelligence.
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insidejob -
Your list only reveals the extent of your personal ignorance and GROSS naivite (you make it sound as if, without 911 everything would be peachy keen in the US). Most of these things were occurring PRIOR to 9/11 (one dramatic example being warrantless wiretaps) and most the others reside well within the bounds of status quo or have antecedents only somewhat distinguished from the more recent developments.
And I have seen no CTer ever even attempt to explain the claim....
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..that the US population would require an attack like 9/11 to approve of an invasion of Iraq. I mean, you are claiming that many US officials put their own necks on the line (and they would be facing treason/death penalty charges if caught - and you people claim that they left about 46,796 easy clues that can be gleaned from a handful of public remarks and internal leaks) and committed mass murder of citizens to invade Iraq?
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There are far TOO MANY examples of how the US could have drummed up support for another foreign adventure without such spectacular and fantastical villainy.
And before you claim that it was "more than just Iraq", I again point to the fact that - other than the colossal and dramatic failure of the neocons plan to dispose of International Law and reconfigure the M. East, no aspect of what has taken place is THAT radical a shift in policy. SADLY nothing in your list is that new.
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One could easily take you list and LAUGH at its naivete:
Without 9/11 thousands of U.S. troops would not have been sent to their deaths.
There is a great list of US wars.
"hundreds of thousands of citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan would not have been sentenced to their deaths."
WRONG - Mujahideen forces backed by ISI and CIA to draw Sov. Invasion of Afghanistan/Iraq-Iran War played on both sides by the US/UK. Iraq Sanctions backed by US/UK all resulting in more than a million dead.
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"Without 9/11 there would be no war in Afghanistan."
No, before 911 there was a war that the US had a hand in, after which they abandoned the nation to the Taliban while their favorite allies in the area (UAE, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) all recognized the Taliban gov't and various elements of PNAC tried to cozy up to them.
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"Without 9/11 there would be no war in Iraq."
Except the US-perpetuated Iran-Iraq War which destroyed the country, half a million of the 19 million people of Iraq were killed, wounded or captured. Except the Gulf War where water filtration plants were destroyed. Except the sanctions which made the Iraqi people dependent on their cruel dictator (keeping him power while the US could think of an alternative), while they died by 100s of thousands...except the regular bombings...
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"Without 9/11 there would be no war in Iran."
Yeah, "no war" except for the ONE RAGING ON FOR THE THIRTY YEARS SINCE THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION. While it has had many faces, America has been at war with Iran since 1979.
What really happened on 9/11 is not a distraction, it is the key to everything:
Without 9/11 there would be no false military reporting (Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch), and no crack down on the freedom of the press (banning photographing the returning coffins).
Without 9/11 there would be no Patriot Act.
Without 9/11 there would be no NSA warrantless wiretapping program.
Without 9/11 there would be no Camp Delta and no Camp X-ray at Guantanamo Bay.
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I hope that you have not applied the term "troll" to me only because we do not agree. On the message boards that I have written, a "troll" was someone who said particular things only to stimulate or agitate or precipitate a response (somewhat like al Qaeda did on 9/11).
I also hope that you did not produce this video solely for a choir of yes men and that you would instead encourage discussion, regardless of the stances expressed.
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911TruthPusher's board is pretty depressing compared to this one, as much of it has digressed into Jew this and Jew that. I realize that some of those people might be actual trolls mocking the Truther community, but I stand firm in my belief that anti-Semites are overrepresented in the Truther community.
This did not originate in 2001, the marginalized CT communities have always been plagued by nativist xenophobes and racists and bigots (fear and all that).
Burnside69x, when are you gonna figure out that Horseytown is not a legitimate commenter. Do you really think that someone is coincidentally leaving 3500 character comments which cover the entire message board anytime someone exposes Zinn as a left gatekeeper in the comments. Jesus. Its one thing to legitimately agree or disagree with Zinn. Its another thing when you clearly work for him. Horseytown is here to take over your message board while pretending to be a passionate outside observer.
I don't believe in censorship in any way, shape or form, so don't look to me to block him or remove his comments. As far as I'm concerned, he can embarrass himself publicly all he wants. As for him "working" for Zinn... that's pure speculation and I'm not gonna go there.
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"I don't believe in censorship in any way, shape or form"
Well, even if you do not agree with me and think nothing of respect from me, I greatly respect you for saying that. In fact, I believe that I somewhat regret chewing your ear out earlier. It stands that I disagree with what you have done here, but now that the anger has somewhat subsided, I do feel that you are at least somewhat reasonable.
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Are you insane, dtoma? I do not work for Zinn (does he even have "employees" other than a press agent and publisher?) nor do I have any connection to him. In fact, if you go back to my very first post either on this or the mirror of this video I do believe I mentioned that I wondered what I would say if I got to meet him, and how I found myself returning to the CT problem. Once at UQAM these Montreal Truth people spoke first and made my query unnecessary.
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I did, however, ask him, as he was sitting at the table signing books, what should be done about the CTers and he laughed and said, "Ignore them."
Clearly I have yet to follow his advice.
But if gallenk, zacharysly and dtoma wish to continue with their elaborate fantasies... who am I to stop you.
I half want to start spouting off about Zion and Greater Israel and Moloch and my meetings with the Lords of International Finance and see how hysterical I can make you..
Sorry, nevermind, I too once was inspired by the works of Zinn and Chomsky AlchemistvsTiger, but eventually you will find that they only follow the information so far until it breaks the left/right paradigm which is where those two deadbeat left gatekeepers draw the line, and thats not insane pal. I'm insane in a way you would probably appreciate seeing as how you clearly study the works of Terrence McKenna, one of the most well-spoken, brilliantly abstract minds the Western world has produced.
look, i come from the camp that the government knew about the attacks and did nothing. I come from the camp that refuses to fall into the bottomless diversion of the bombs in the building because I strongly believe that it does more hindrance than help to movement. Building 7 is definitely strange and probably was bombs, it should be the key attack to forcing the Gov. and media and masses to look into this more. Too much of the 911 truth movement is sloppy and unproductive, self destructive.
Try Michael Rupert, he broke the story for everyone and did the original investigating himself. He presents his case in the book "Crossing the Rubicon" This is a much more powerful way to change the minds of educated people. The Loose Change style only works on some...and unfortunately the wrong type to lead this kind of charge. All just my opinion of course, but I do highly suggest the Mike Rupert book if you have not read it.
"Too much of the 911 truth movement is sloppy and unproductive, self destructive." Well how much is too little? 9/11 is the central premise for two wars and a pervasive shift of the purpose of our whole society. The war on terror that was launched with 9/11 justifies the KGB-like Homeland Security, the annulment of constitutional rights, and the general timbre of boogie man fear that now pervades our lives. Chomksy, Goodman, Zinn can't possibly justify their dismissals or denial of this issue.
He does not state that all of those so-called "9/11 Truthers" are fanatics. He says some of them are. And by posting this video with the editorial comments made here you are proving his point.
Zinn states that it should be investigated more carefully. BUT he says that it is NOT the most important matter to look after. His answer is that we should not drop everything else in order to do an investigation (and whoever would do the investigation would not be considered reliable enough anyway).
I don't think anyone ever said that "we should drop everything" in regards to 9/11 but he DID say, in Colorado, that he didn't care about 9/11 and that it was in the past... Coming from an historian, this is outrageous and insulting to the victims of this catastrophe and subsequent events.
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Again with the demagoguery? Yes, he "insulted the dead" but expressing his lack of desire to personally involve himself in a movement he sees as an "ENDLESS controversy" (and it is not the first he has witnessed)..what a crime. You can be outraged all you want by his wording (and he is definitely angry - most everyone working in social justice is sick and tired of all this oversimplified CT nonsense), but what is more outrageous is your claiming he actually meant that...
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he did not "care about 9/11" at all. Howard Zinn is not limited to these two isolated snapshots in time, and pretending that this is all to the man or his works is CRIMINAL and something you should be ashamed of. You are participating in the conscious distortion of a man who has contributed greatly to the wealth of knowledge you might possess today. I imagine you once respected him or you otherwise would not have challenged him.
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But yet you have attempted to brand him as a traitor because of a particular wording of a sentence that tumbled staccato out of his mouth at an event in Colorado. You want his entire fifty year career erased and replaced with the word ENEMY, despite the fact that he is clearly concerned with 9/11, and that his voluminous works often touch on it and how it has been exploited. Look to a bookstore shelf for a recent example in Nancy Chang's Silencing Political Dissent where he denounces the P. Act.
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What did he say in Colorado? It bears repeating:
"I don't care that much about its...That's past. I..I...really. [applause] To me that's a diversion. The whole argument people are engaged in about 'Was the government behind the conspiracy to blow up the Twin Towers?', to me that's a diversion from what we really have to do, which is deal with the fact that whatever ..."
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"...whoever was behind 9/11, the government took advantage of that, took us to take us to war and to put us on a disastrous course. And it is that war, those wars, that disastrous course that we have to deal with. Now they want to go back into a controversy that I think is an endless controversy and it just gets in the way of dealing with the immediate situation."
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Note that he NEVER FINISHED THE SENTENCE "I don't care that much about its" and that the word he stopped on was "its" with an S, denoting a poss. pronoun meaning, not "it".
He has been ASKED A QUESTION and is merely giving his PERSONAL REASONS for not JOINING the government conspiracy movement. It was not an expression of how he sees the event as meaningless or unimportant. You can choose the distortion and count Zinn as merely another in a growing list of imagined enemies, or you can be honest.
Horseytown and Zinn ... both fukkin shills who'd blow anyone with a badge and a fistful of money. Instead of supporting the truth they make up excuses to battle against it. Hey horseshit ! Did you reply to me and say there was no evidence that your lover and master fed govt lied about 9/11 ???? Your a bigger piece shit than Zinn. Go blow each other you big suckass! Find more excuses ass !
Horseytown comes to the message board again with a 3000 character post right after I said he would with his DISINFO WALLPAPER. Youre a sick joke and you choke on Zinn balls. Thats why you type so much because you're swallowing Zinn all the time, you sycophantic parasite. Keep your posts brief you fucking devil
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Let us for a moment accept your fantasy for a second, and let us say that I am solely dedicated to knocking messages off the first page of this pitiful little video (I am not, but this is an idea from whose gravity you cannot escape - it must be your most brilliant idea in years) ...why would you be at all troubled by my "disinfo" seeing as you have contributed no "info" of your own?
At least Zinn has balls, which is more than one could say about a shrill, whimpering puss like you.
Horseytown filmed the entire Zinn theatrical garbage display. Its clear they work closely together. Horseytown's pitiful and pathetic job is to make sure all the comments that cleverly expose the left gatekeeping tactics of Coward Zinn are removed from front and center by ridiculously long and boring 2500+ comments which take up the entire message boards of both copies of this vid. I think dtoma555 is dead on with this one
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You asked before in what way did you lie about Howard Zinn's position and I forgot to ask you what you believed this video would achieve.
No.1 - you have misrepresented his statements as being entirely dismissive of the tragic significance of the event, and have steered appraisal of them away from their more critical intent and his observation that he does not believe that it is the end all of political discourse, and that the entire movement cannot be expected to sit around obsessed with it
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And in fact your actions are a potent example of the religious zealotry of the 911 movement. You accept no understanding of 911 other than that which you believe - you simply CANNOT ACCEPT that some very bright people have sat down and have pored over the same information as you and NOT arrived at the same conclusion as you (ie that the government did it). A failure to join your ranks is nothing more than evidence of moral failure or simply not enough of your type of research.
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Or, more ominously, it is to you evidence of allegiances to more sinister elements responsible for the attacks. There are only two possibilities - dereliction of duty or active complicity in mass murder - in your eyes. It could NEVER POSSIBLY BE that YOU might be WRONG - NO, that is an IMPOSSIBILITY. Such ARROGANCE. And this is to what he spoke in both Montreal and Colorado. He endorsed an independent investigation but cautioned that 911 should not become the movement's central argument.
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And yes, he, like Chomsky, Gwynne Dyer, Goodman, Cockburn, myself and many thousands of activists, have looked closely at the evidence and concluded that there exists no evidence that necessarily leads one to the conclusions of the "Truth Movement". And you want to know what? FACE THE FACT THAT HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU. And no, this does not make him a "gatekeeper" (do you even realize how infantile and theatrical these terms are?). But no, it is not enough for you fanatics and so you hound..
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all of these figures that you feel are OBLIGATED to carry and disseminate your particular world view. If they do not acquiese they can expect to be publicly denounced as apostates. And so the 911 RELIGIOUS movement has developed its own form of the Taliban's "beard patrol", identifying those in defiance of the presumed "truth" and administering public floggings to all those parties as a warning to others.
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Your little stunts (and your fanatical ilk has perpetrated them against Dyer, Klein, Zinn, Chomsky, Dyer, Goodman and probably dozens of others) achieve nothing but further splinter the discourse, 9/11 fundamentalists now being advised to reject the words of those branded heretical apostates.
Yes, this sort or zealotry does nothing but reinforce what Zinn said: that SOME PEOPLE (some people like you) are obsessed with 911 and have lost the plot.
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And so, in lieu of anything constructive, the 911 fanatics will collectively waste an incredible amount of time denouncing those they assume to be quislings.
I just looked up the others (Goodman, Klein, Chomsky, etc.) in YouTube and have now become aware that some of your ilk are ACTUALLY PROUD of their little fascistic beard patrols, and refer to them affectionately as "Truth Squads"
Sad? Youre a sad piece o `horsey' shit! Instead of facing facts and acknowledging what is completely 10000% certain ... that your govt whom youd blow into contentment ... LIED out their ass and covered up the biggest fuckin crime in US history that led to 2 wars so far and you wanna defend that old fukin piece shit Zinn in saying it aint important ?? Go suck off your masters you piece o horseshit
Thanks Howard....join Gnome Chumpsky and others on the "caved in" list
MrNoblemanoflove 3 days ago
3 QUESTIONS 911 TRUTHERS DON'T WANT YOU TO ASK THEM:
Since the govt. committed 9/11, why arent truthers demanding the release of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is on trial for his life for a crime truthers claim he did not commit?
If there was no flight 93, please explain how 95% of the plane debris was recovered?
If there was no flight 77, please explain how 130+ witnesses reported seeing a plane?
ctcole77 3 days ago
@ctcole77 Copy, paste, watch, and weep... 911Truth: Cheney/Rumsfeld Black Operation At Pentagon 15:00
Multiple explosions at the Pentagon on 9/11 4:48
9/11 Pentagon Explosions And Missing Plane Wreckage 14:31
MrNoblemanoflove 3 days ago
Long live childishness; it's important to not take things to serious, huh, cole?
Thetan1974 2 weeks ago
@Thetan1974
I just visited Israel. Does that make me a zionist shill?
ctcole77 2 weeks ago
@ctcole77 How should I know? I know that your CoIntel deeds on the web does - and you're even admitting it with your CAPITAL adressing of how important it is for debunkers to unite in an effort to block a new investigation.
You seem - serious about it. So is 9/11 truth - dead serious. And you know it. Oh yeah, you know it, creepy nazionist fascist punk whining about voting for Obama - the AIPAC controlled puppet.
Thetan1974 2 weeks ago
@Thetan1974
10+ years
ctcole77 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
Thetan1974 2 weeks ago
@ctcole77 Again, THAT's debunking.
"10+ years. Look at me. I can count to 10 - or can I..?"
Thetan1974 2 weeks ago
@Thetan1974
The 911 Truth Movement - "Making stupid people feel smart since 2004"
ctcole77 2 weeks ago
@ctcole77 I think you're wrong; it was stupid conspiracy theorists blaming W alone for it until 2004. Then experts really got in stage and since 2006 with AE911Truth it is no longer about stupid people wanting to feel smart. It's about a rising amount of perfectly normal people discovering - mot at least thousands of architects, engineers and sientists - that critizising the official story and demanding a real investigation cannot in it self be called "conspiracy teory."
Thetan1974 1 week ago
is the 911 truther stuff still going? I was hoping it would die with the Obama truther movement.
Guys-- get over it-- its a completely insane theory. basic logic FTW
use ur brains for productive stuff, go occupy something
Dymdez 1 month ago
@Dymdez Jesus Christ. The occupy movement is under total control by the globalists who also have made you think that there's any difference between Bush and Obama.
There's nothing dangerous to the banksters about the Occupy movement. It's all in it place where it should be - with the "lefties" occupyers ALSO buying into the official story - excactly as the banksters want them.
Btw WHAT "insane theory" are you talking about?? The only one insane is the official unproven one.
Thetan1974 2 weeks ago
@Thetan1974
LMAO!
You're doing such a good job at converting people into 911 twoofers!
ctcole77 2 weeks ago
@ctcole77 Thank you.
You're doing such a sad job of showing that you're a nutcase in denial - regardless of who were behind 9/11.
Thetan1974 2 weeks ago
@Thetan1974
THANK YOU!
I know my efforts have paid Haliburton dividends because the 911 Debunking Movement has successfully blocked your investigation for over 10 years!
911 DEBUNKERS UNITE!
WE ARE WINNING THE INFO WAR!
ctcole77 2 weeks ago
@ctcole77 Oh, sticking up for Haliburtion? What a real NAZIONIST FASCIST NWO BRAINWASHED TOOL (if you're for real.)
There really is war going on? Well then the 9/11 truth movement can't be as ridiculous and unnoticed as you guys try to bluff out.
Thanks for the great info.
Thetan1974 2 weeks ago
@Thetan1974
LONG LIVE THE NEW WOOKIE ORDER!
ctcole77 2 weeks ago
Howard Zinn is a jew protecting his tribe. So is Noam Chomsky, Amy Goodman, and Naomi Klein. All these gatekeepers also happen to be jewish, and it is not a coincidence.
Watch _9/11 Missing Links_ to see the massive amount of evidence connecting Israel to 9/11.
beppu 3 months ago
Howard Zinn? A CIA Operative? Oh, that is the funniest shit I have ever heard! LMAO. Try and understand what he means by "I don't care." Even if 911 was some vast cospiracy, no one will ever be able to prove it. Like he said, "it's a dead end. What's more important is that people hate us because of our foreign policy." What about the embassy bombings, the first WTC attack in 93. Were those conspiracies? Oh, nice job of quote mining Zinn ("I don't care about the past") that's out of context.
ChomskyandCheetos 9 months ago
Death metal music ruined this video.
01289PUDNAN 1 year ago
the 9-11 truth movement was started by the same ppl the did 9-11....
mrundercoverdude 1 year ago
Howard Zinn RIP 1922-2010
johnhughes1977 2 years ago
Howard Zinn is a CIA operative? please! that's funny.
johnhughes1977 2 years ago
Zinn, Chomsky, the whole thing is just pretend. More Fonzie than Trostsky. A way for upper middle class "rebels" to stick it to Daddy or that popular jock that flicked your ear in high school. But please don't stop. I want you to hit 45 and realize the revolution isn't coming. By the way HOT TOPIC is selling a sweet CHE T-shirt. Go to the mall and get yours now Comrads!
dillflopper 2 years ago
You can always tell the phony opposition CIA operatives like Howard Zinn, Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky by the way that they respond to the question of government.
Howard Zinn is a jackbooted Communist fuck who is going to burn in hell for all eternity. I'd like to punch him in his lying Hitlerian mouth.
icfnord 2 years ago
And ho the hell are these people --people in a university --who applaud the statement that 'I don't care' if 911 was a govt conspiracy. It's like saying I don't care if the cook put arsenic in the soup I'm being served. That's in the past.' IDIOTS!!
ezrabiggins 2 years ago
I can't express my disappointment at Zinn. And how hiw words must gall him. These people have received phone calls and they're scared as hell. How else to explain how Howard Zinn could talk like this?
ezrabiggins 2 years ago
We don't need the truth about 9-11 to focus our attention on the criminal Bush administration??? How dare this man, Howard Zinn, play his game with us and then tun around and ask us to actively turn away from something we saw. What is Zinn afraid of? What is Chomsky afraid of? What is everyone so afraid of.
There is a primordial aversion to looking into the jaws of this evil crime. Why?
911 WAS and continues to be an inside job.
Get on the right side of history and demand a new investigation.
pyubtinsl 2 years ago
Well said.
nealkassanoff 2 years ago
To the 9/11 truth movement:
Assume for a minute that a jew commie really burned the reichtstag, does that fundamentally change anything?
Assume the thousands of soldiers that died in the name of 9/11 in iraq and afghanistan are well documented and more easily verifiable than what happened in 2001?
Assume, just for a second, that 1973 had its own at least equally important 9/11.
Just assume that for a second, and think about what matters.
ReX342 2 years ago
This is a worthless argument and 9/11 truth deniers will be left in the dust to the misfortune of all of us who want people fighting the good fight about what is really happening. We need everyone on deck with a clear view of how a shadow government is operating to consolidate total world power. I hope that you can stop hiding in your rationalizations. Join us against the rogue network who are trying to whip the whole planet into a frenzy of war by playing all sides against each other.
nealkassanoff 2 years ago
he never said he didn't care about the past.
those are not the exact words and i need more than a 5sec clip to judge him.
taken from wiki: Les écrits de Zinn s'inspirent du marxisme, de l'anarchisme, et de la pensée social-démocrate. Depuis les années 1960, il est un acteur de premier plan du mouvement des droits civiques comme du courant pacifiste aux États-Unis.
très très intéressant. ca m'incite à me renseigner sur
baofuv8 3 years ago
(...) sur son passé et ses écrits.
baofuv8 3 years ago
j'oublis, l'intro est horrible.
baofuv8 3 years ago
If you want to report the facts, ditch the editing tricks ("fanatics" montage over his face, etc). Long live video editing
TimRideout 3 years ago
yes there is nothing like System of a Down to convince people /end of sarcasm
fight "bullshit" and "ignorance" with undeniable facts or else you are just as good as the one you 're trying to bring down.
this is like a videogame / home movie clip of some sort with the inevitable loud music in the background and the idiotic comments =/
one word -biaised-
baofuv8 3 years ago 2
Unbelievable!!!! "Thats past..." EVERY event is past you dumbass! This guy has NO credibility and should not even be on a stage speaking to people. Maybe when the NEXT black op happens and someone he cares about dies will he start caring about "the past"!!!!
getoffutube 3 years ago 2
We would pay attention to your comment
GETOFFUTUBE, but it was posted in the past, and we're looking forward for now.
Oh no!, now my comment is in the past.
dtoma555 3 years ago
LOL!
Long live TRUTH!
getoffutube 3 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
3 QUESTIONS 911 TRUTHERS DON'T WANT YOU TO ASK THEM:
With all his money and media access, why hasn't Bin Laden denied committing 911?
Why did Scholars for 911 Truth split into two groups?
How can Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth be considered a professional organization when 80% of its members are students?
To be an architect or engineer you must have a degree, experience, & registered by your state.
ctcole77 3 years ago
Another thing that's funny about it is, from now on, if anyone questions his hypocritical, dishonest, traitorous comments, the old bastard will respond by saying they are the fanatics he speaks of. Laugh the Fuck out loud. What a criminal mind control stance this demon has on his lefty worshipers. Doesnt matter, he's revealed his true position as a left gatekeeper, and he's ours now. When the criminals hang for their crimes, he will stand trial too, and he will hang for accessory after the fact
dtoma555 3 years ago
Again, all i can say is..
Those guys clapping at the end.. "let's drop the 9/11 subject, forget about it" Clap clap clap... Right before he says we should just drop it.. he says he do not know what happened on that day.. and that he does not trust the official story...
That's pretty lame. How will America ever "grow" if they can not correct their mistakes.. find the root of the problems.. etc etc.. Many people wants to fix this.. Many simply does not care.. :/
Jjinn1 3 years ago 2
Howard Zinn the an American-jewish 'historian.' Strange how at this Montreal spkg event,as he spoke of American history,he chose tonot mention:how Bush's grandfthr,PrescottBush,funded Hitler's war machine;that the Nazi's IG Farben (the petrochemical firm fueling their warmachine) were the 2nd largest stockholders behind Standard Oil/NewJersey which blocked vital resources for the allies;the1998 Memphis civil trial that found rogue elements of the USgovt complicit in the murder of MLK.
insidejob323 3 years ago 3
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They could have chosen any attacks...but went with these? Not the Statue of Liberty or the U.N. or any public event that might claim comparable numbers?
Also, why, if their war on terror was designed as concerned with WMD (the PNAC was all about this stuff), why was the attack a conventional hijacking turned suicide mission ...with no WMD involved?
Why, if they could choose ANY 19 identities to frame for the attacks...would they choose only individuals from allied nations?
horseytown 3 years ago
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what the crap?
horseytown 3 years ago
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Look no further than the HYSTERICAL responses to that which I have written for evidence of the level of paranoia and fanaticism that exists in the CT community. This is nothing compared to what Zinn (et al.) are faced with, and it is incredible in its own light.
How long did it take CTers here and on several other commentary pages, to INVENT a conspiracy theory to explain my posting here? It never takes long - ALL VOICES OF DISSENT ARE IMMEDIATELY discounted as supporters of the status quo.
horseytown 3 years ago
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...if not full-blooded agents of deception and "disinfo".
It is this sort of intimidation (this is another prime example of how CT parallels religion) tactic helps drive conspiracy to the greater and greater extremes.
The aim is to push those reticent to accept authoritarian control to part ways with their reservations by forcing them to prove their distaste for a common enemy.
horseytown 3 years ago
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CTer: I hate the government.
Anarchist: Me too.
C: 9/11 was an inside job.
A: Well, I have never seen evidence of that, but I wouldn't really put it past them.
C: No evidence? You should research it some.
A: Oh, I have, I just don't believe that there is anything there that suggests an inside job.
C:Are you kidding? WAKE UP, SHEEP. What did the blue pill taste like, anyway?
A: Oh, I am very much opposed to the gov't, I just don't think they were the direct cause of 9/11.
horseytown 3 years ago
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C: Do you really enjoy sucking your neocon masters cock? Get out of here you fucking disinfo agent fuck.
A: Are you people crazy?
C: Zionist. Your type will be the first to pay when judgment day arrives - you will only realize too late when the NWO takes the stage. Then you will regret challenging we wise men of YouTubia.
horseytown 3 years ago
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It appears to be satire...but the number of times I have seen it happen is stupefying.
horseytown 3 years ago
Not as stupefying as your prose.
oldjoe5 3 years ago 3
Next time, maybe if you use a different, less aggressive approach for a discussion you'll get different, less aggressive responses.
Just a thought like that.
Burnside69x 3 years ago
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I was responding to your aggressive action (again, I was present about four seats down from the mic) and the aggression and willful distortion of events in your video here.
Your attempts to appear reasonable and even sensitive from point A on are comical.
I have no problem whatsoever in withdrawing from rejoinders with you, but I will continue to reject any effort on your part to paint me as the one who was first unreasonable or impolite.
horseytown 3 years ago
While Zinn is speaking of 9/11 as all in the past, many of us are better able to discern the true nature of incidents like the one in Mumbai because we bothered to learn about the system of moles and patsies that were evident in the events of 9/11. Let Zinn take part in the dismissal and disinfo. He can eat our dust.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago 4
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And what can you discern about Mumbai because of your interpretation of 9/11?
"Let Zinn take part in the dismissal and disinfo. He can eat our dust."
See, this where you lose the vast majority of rational people - the freewheeling nature of your broad accusations and disparaging remarks. It is not enough for him to be uninterested in the truther movement, or for you to even be angry at him for condemning what you see as meaningful action...but immediately the apostate, once identified...
horseytown 3 years ago
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...must be cast out, tarred and feathered and accused of betrayal and working for the enemy.
This sort of fanaticism is no doubt part of the reason Zinn responded the way he did in Montreal. One can only imagine how many truther soldiers flooded his inbox with attacks (like those seen here - accusations of being a Zionist Jew, a traitor and neocon, a disinfo agent and imperialist, a left gatekeeper and charlatan) ...in just the time from Colorado (where he was far more diplomatic).
horseytown 3 years ago
Ahh, the evening shift for the troll has begun again! A person who uses all of their skills of persuasion to compulsively placate their own denial. I needed some comic relief after a long day. Thanks.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago 5
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Yes, the age old tactic of bully posturing. Age old in that it is juvenile and is another example of a total lack of engagement or perhaps even an ability to engage someone in debate.
What denial am I perpetuating here, my friend? Please inform me. Please give me an example of a piece of evidence that you believe I have improperly rejected.
You made claims that wars were started on 9/11 and I pointed out that historically speaking you were the one defending the status quo.
horseytown 3 years ago
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I find this a curious characteristic of the CTers - a habit of defending the way things were BEFORE. It was no surprise that so many CTers were rushed into the hyper-capitalist-nationalist net of the American libertarian during the election. The CT tradition has its strongest roots in the conservative, isolationist, nativist and nationalist end of the spectrum.
horseytown 3 years ago
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Those in the forefront of the CT industry are always eager to wax philosophical about how the noble US has been "hijacked" by a dastardly group who has betrayed the vision of the Founding Fathers.Many CT websites are bedecked in nationalist regalia and flags and colonial imagery. They invert the journey and weep over what has been lost instead of what has been gained...ignoring that what those in power wish to do is to RETURN US TO OUR UN-DEMOCRATIC PAST (the same one that CTers wax poetic over
horseytown 3 years ago
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A time when the vast majority could not even cast a ballot...when the slave and land-owning corporate class was that of the kindly fathers. A time before democratic gains that we struggled for AGAINST the will of the ruling class.
There is no question (I truly believe that all of us can coalesce on at least this point) - 911, regardless of the perpetrators, was exploited to take from us many of our gains, in the name of "defense", "Security" and "national interests"...
horseytown 3 years ago
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...but to argue that 9/11 marked the beginning of some great shift in policy (other than the conscious assault on world law or anything that might impede a unipolar world led by the US) is ludicrously short-sighted. While they were given a freer hand, none of these policies began post 9-11.
For the record - I believe the natural state of man is liberty, and that all governments move towards tyranny.
horseytown 3 years ago
You're not stupid. You even offer some insights of partial truth amidst your flailing denial and reactivity. If you want to join with Zinn in minimizing the importance of spotting and educating others about false flag operations and behind-the-scenes oligarchical rule, have at it! I know what my rallying cry is and its not imperative that people like yourself agree with me.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago 6
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"I know what my rallying cry is and its not imperative that people like yourself agree with me. "
Well, believe it or not there is a part of me that greatly respects that.
"If you want to join with Zinn in minimizing the importance of spotting and educating others about false flag operations and behind-the-scenes oligarchical rule, have at it!"
Fine, except that I do believe it foolish to paint either Zinn or myself as being internally inconsistent if we SIMPLY DO NOT AGREE...
horseytown 3 years ago
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..with those who claim 9/11 was a false flag operation. It certainly is not out of a devotion to some comforting dream where the government would never even think of doing such a thing...in fact, much of my opposition to the conspiracy theory is due to the fact that I believe the masters so masterful that such a crude assault on the people is actually UNNECESSARY to manufacture consent. For me it would be too much of a risk and something they would have found a way of extracting from the people
horseytown 3 years ago
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one way or another.
horseytown 3 years ago
You give these guys far more credit than I do. I think that the oligarchy is a bunch of sadistic murdering careless decadent scum. 9/11 was a sloppy, sloppy inside job driven by arrogance and desperation.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago 4
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They are incredibly sloppy while simultaneously confident that their brilliant subterfuge will extend into perpetuity, allowing for them all to retire gracefully and enjoy the fruits of their diabolical acts? How can they be assured that all subsequent administrations will dutifully guard their dark secret? I assume they are all a part of the same sinister oligarchy?
horseytown 3 years ago
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Also, what is it that you believe transpired? Are you of the LIHOP or MIHOP stripe? Do you believe that planes were hijacked or were they drones (or holograms or missiles)? Do you believe there were bombs in the buildings? What do you understand their goal to have been?
horseytown 3 years ago
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Who exactly is taking the time give each and every post of mine a thumb's down? What a pathetic crowd. Really...why bother...who gives a shit about the little thumbs?
horseytown 3 years ago
Of course they made it happen on purpose. Details? Well, there are a number of possibilities, but nineteen fundamentalists successfully hitting three targets with hijacked planes is not one of them.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
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Why exactly would this not be possible?
How exactly is it less plausible than what you are claiming took place?
horseytown 3 years ago
How exactly could we avoid a fruitless discussion about the details of 9/11? You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe. Surely you've had this argument before. You know where it goes.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
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So...basically you are saying that you and others wish to chastise Zinn for not taking seriously your fixed-yet-vague wildly implausible conspiracy theory (the lack of plausibility is likely central to his rejection of it), but at the same time avoid having to defend the theory he is being attacked for criticizing?
Yes, I know where it goes...the CTers always back off because they have no glue with which to paste together their disparate nuggets of half-truths, lies and distortions.
horseytown 3 years ago
Uh huh.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
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So, we have a terrorist incident made-to-order ...one that could have had ANY targets and ANY perpetrators and the Evil Cabal decides to highlight CAPITALISM (WTC) and IMPERIALISM (Pentagon) even though its "official story" will be "they hate us for our freedoms"? They then downplay the Pentagon strike for the next seven years such that few people even recognize it as a target of the 9/11 hijackers. The WTC is not mentioned, only the brave firefighters and the office workers of NYC.
horseytown 3 years ago
You sure spend a lot of time on this topic for someone who thinks its a distraction.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago 3
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That's all you have got?
And the others..?
Well, you people have your little thumbs downs and thumbs up to play with, I suppose that is enough.
horseytown 3 years ago
Why don't you do something productive instead of putting so much time into a dead end argument?
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
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Precisely how is this any different from any other argument by any other person? I could say the same about you and your truther friends. Why do you put so much time into a dead argument?
Likely because you do not see it as dead.
horseytown 3 years ago
Yeah, well, I'm certainly in a dead end argument with you.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
probably cause youre not clever enough to rebut what he says. If you have your ten friends thumb me down, I wont care
ahachie 2 years ago
Yes, they are all working for the same sinister oligarchy. That is correct.
And, they CAN'T be assured of the extension of their will and fortune into perpetuity. They will likely crumble under the weight of their own insanity, greed, and arrogance.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago 2
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Is there any reason you have not responded to my query as to what, basically, you believe transpired and why? I was not requesting a detailed court-worthy case study, I merely wish to avoid assuming things about what you do believe.
I get the feeling you are MIHOP and believe there were bombs in the building. What I do not know is whether or not you believe planes were manned by human beings.
horseytown 3 years ago
Helping hint. Limit yourself to words that are no longer than two syllables wherever possible. I am on your side but you write like an ahole
oldjoe5 3 years ago
That overdubbed music is beyond retarded.
cronksty 3 years ago
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This ignores two further facts: 9/11 was hardly made to order and many contortions were needed to translate an attack by religious zealots operating from the territories of nominal and literal allied nations (Afghanistan, UAE, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Philippines) into a green light for an attack on the Secular Arab Nationalist, Saddam Hussein. The U.S. had been at war with Hussein for at least a decade (though they had worked to maintain his power through sanctions).
horseytown 3 years ago
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The sanctions were brutal enough to incapacitate any potential Shia uprising (the people became utterly dependent on Hussein), while Hussein's military was simultaneously castrated (though it had already been through war). Meanwhile the US/UK allowed for oil smuggling and all matter of abuses that enriched only Hussein and his cronies.
horseytown 3 years ago
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And yet when they finally went in to Iraq to change the guard, the US was in the same position as they had been at the end of the Gulf War - no idea how to replace Hussein without playing into Iran's hands.
They now find themselves defeated and doing just that.
horseytown 3 years ago
Yeah, 9/11 is "all in the past". Granted the police-state department of "homeland security" would not exist without the 9/11 premise. Nor would wars in two theatres. Nor would the Patriot Act. If we're actually under attack by a shadow-dwelling oligarchy (and we are) it kind of matters. This is utter idiocy at best and disinfo at worst.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago 2
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Zinn did not say that it was all in the past.
So, your claim is that the shadow-dwelling oligarchy launched 9/11 (and in doing so placed all of their lives on the line) to throw together an additional level of police bureaucracy and enforcement...and place troops in Iraq. Those two theaters of war were already there, the only changes are troops and a new leadership (plus hundreds of thousands of dead and untold numbers of wounded). This is ignorance at its worst.
horseytown 3 years ago
Horseytown says: "Zinn did not say that it was all in the past."
Zinn says: "Do I believe that the government was in a conspiracy to do this? I don't know and the truth is I really don't care. That's passed."
How much more blatant could your denial of reality be?
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
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From where did you pull your imaginary quote? I see quotation marks, but I have not been privy to this statement before.
What he said, stumbling for the right words:
"I don't care that much about its [INCOMPLETE SENTENCE DROPS OFF/IS CUT OFF BY] - That's past... [INCOMPLETE IDEA] I, I don't really... [applause] To me..to me that's a diversion."
horseytown 3 years ago
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He NEVER FINISHED THE SENTENCE "I don't care that much about its" and that the word he stopped on was "its" with an S, denoting a poss. pronoun meaning, not "it".
You are not even experiencing difficulty with reality, you are actively distorting it so that you can hear what you wish to hear.
horseytown 3 years ago
And just to be clear. The last twenty seconds, not the last seven, like I said.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
Anyone can listen to the last seven seconds of this video and hear what he said for themselves. "Do I believe that the government was in a conspiracy to do this? I don't know. I don't know enough about the situation and the truth is I don't care that much about..its.. that's passed." You are devoting a ridiculous amount of time to blatant denial.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
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If it was so obvious why did you choose to alter his words so dramatically? I have no problem discussing the meaning of his words, but only as long as they be the words that he actually spoke.
And yes, it does come down to interpretation - I feel that I know what he meant by his words because I know that he would never bluntly state that he did not care about something simply because it was in the past. To me it is clear that his emphasis was on the fact that he was not interested in...
horseytown 3 years ago
Again, the words spoken in the last twenty seconds are as follows: "Do I believe that the government was in a conspiracy to do this? I don't know. I don't know enough about the situation and the truth is I don't care that much about..its.. that's passed." Any idiot can side step this fruitless waste of a thread and judge for themselves.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
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Oh, the idiots will and they do...and mostly only idiots will ever see this video, because most of them will be directed here by their fellow idiots.
As for their ability to judge for themselves...well, that is not so evident. Being framed in "Montreal 911 TRUTH CONFRONTS...", with key words like "gatekeeper", a small editorial in the sidebar, and this video being embedded on ONLY conspiracy websites... is it any surprise that the "interpretation" witnessed here has been so utterly homogeneous?
horseytown 3 years ago
Youre really asking me why I question the motives of the length of your posts after you just painted the entire message board once again with disinfo garbage consisting of 10 consecutive 500 character posts within several minutes. Youre a fucking hopeless clown pretending you dont know what a left gatekeeper is. Oh no, there you go again, asking people to respond to you when you dont even care what you're talking about either. Your job is just to write and write and write. Where's my voodoo doll
dtoma555 3 years ago 2
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I placed "left gatekeepers" in quotations in order to make clear that derision was intended, not because I was pretending "not to know" what it was. Contempt for is not the same thing as ignorance.
I do care about what I am writing...I don't actually care about what you are writing...however, it is entertaining.
I won't bother replying to you from now on if that makes you feel better.
Just curl up with your voodoo doll, insert your thumb and rock yourself back to sleep.
horseytown 3 years ago
Its PURE EVIL when the left gatekeepers send large groups of liberals into a strange dichotomous trance where they, at one single moment, feel like they have investigated an issue and arrived at a determination of its significance without lifting a finger or a brain cell. Just by taking the time to listen to one of their thought-leaders say 9/11 doesn't matter, is enough to give them pride in that position as if they had arrived to it on their own after years and years of research. Must be nice
dtoma555 3 years ago 2
Inside Job's got the right idea, I suppose. We'll battle Horseytown's signature 5000 character posts of disinfo and confusion, with equally long posts of basic rationale and the sound logic of exposing false-flag terrorism. Whats so sad about Left Gatekeeping is that the minds that are held up by the Left Gate are the more gifted thinkers the world has to offer.
dtoma555 3 years ago 2
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dtoma - all you done here is bleated like an infant and endlessly reiterated some variation or another of dreary, barely coherent gibberish concerning "left gatekeepers". Do you even realize that you have been harping on about how many characters are in my posts for close to a week now?
Why not, since you are there anyway, please explain what you have uncovered about 9/11. Just a single point that might serve to "wake up" those who have not yet been stirred.
horseytown 3 years ago
What really happened on 9/11 is not a distraction, it is the key to everything:
Without 9/11 there would be no Military Commissions Act and no coordinated program of extraordinary rendition, indefinite detention and torture of those defined as enemy combatants.
Without 9/11 there would be no vast increase in secrecy and complete militarization of intelligence under the newly created office of the Director of National Intelligence.
insidejob323 3 years ago 3
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insidejob -
Your list only reveals the extent of your personal ignorance and GROSS naivite (you make it sound as if, without 911 everything would be peachy keen in the US). Most of these things were occurring PRIOR to 9/11 (one dramatic example being warrantless wiretaps) and most the others reside well within the bounds of status quo or have antecedents only somewhat distinguished from the more recent developments.
And I have seen no CTer ever even attempt to explain the claim....
horseytown 3 years ago
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..that the US population would require an attack like 9/11 to approve of an invasion of Iraq. I mean, you are claiming that many US officials put their own necks on the line (and they would be facing treason/death penalty charges if caught - and you people claim that they left about 46,796 easy clues that can be gleaned from a handful of public remarks and internal leaks) and committed mass murder of citizens to invade Iraq?
horseytown 3 years ago
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There are far TOO MANY examples of how the US could have drummed up support for another foreign adventure without such spectacular and fantastical villainy.
And before you claim that it was "more than just Iraq", I again point to the fact that - other than the colossal and dramatic failure of the neocons plan to dispose of International Law and reconfigure the M. East, no aspect of what has taken place is THAT radical a shift in policy. SADLY nothing in your list is that new.
horseytown 3 years ago
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One could easily take you list and LAUGH at its naivete:
Without 9/11 thousands of U.S. troops would not have been sent to their deaths.
There is a great list of US wars.
"hundreds of thousands of citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan would not have been sentenced to their deaths."
WRONG - Mujahideen forces backed by ISI and CIA to draw Sov. Invasion of Afghanistan/Iraq-Iran War played on both sides by the US/UK. Iraq Sanctions backed by US/UK all resulting in more than a million dead.
horseytown 3 years ago
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"there would be no false military reporting
"and no crack down on the freedom of the press" - are you kidding?
"there would be no Patriot Act" - really? How about the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act passed by Clinton?
"there would be no NSA warrantless wiretapping program"
Except that there was before 9/11.
"no Guantanamo Bay"
Do you believe there were no such thing as illegal detainment before 911? Gitmo may serve as a deliberate distraction from far worse.
horseytown 3 years ago
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"Without 9/11 there would be no inaction on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process."
WOW...now that one wins the prize for MOST HILARIOUSLY NAIVE STATEMENT EVER WRITTEN ON YOUTUBE.
How is that I AM THE ONE who is being slandered as a patsy for the government when you make it sound as everything was kosher prior to 9/11?
horseytown 3 years ago
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"Without 9/11 there would be no war in Afghanistan."
No, before 911 there was a war that the US had a hand in, after which they abandoned the nation to the Taliban while their favorite allies in the area (UAE, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) all recognized the Taliban gov't and various elements of PNAC tried to cozy up to them.
horseytown 3 years ago
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"Without 9/11 there would be no war in Iraq."
Except the US-perpetuated Iran-Iraq War which destroyed the country, half a million of the 19 million people of Iraq were killed, wounded or captured. Except the Gulf War where water filtration plants were destroyed. Except the sanctions which made the Iraqi people dependent on their cruel dictator (keeping him power while the US could think of an alternative), while they died by 100s of thousands...except the regular bombings...
horseytown 3 years ago
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"Without 9/11 there would be no war in Iran."
Yeah, "no war" except for the ONE RAGING ON FOR THE THIRTY YEARS SINCE THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION. While it has had many faces, America has been at war with Iran since 1979.
horseytown 3 years ago
What really happened on 9/11 is not a distraction, it is the key to everything:
Without 9/11 there would be no false military reporting (Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch), and no crack down on the freedom of the press (banning photographing the returning coffins).
Without 9/11 there would be no Patriot Act.
Without 9/11 there would be no NSA warrantless wiretapping program.
Without 9/11 there would be no Camp Delta and no Camp X-ray at Guantanamo Bay.
insidejob323 3 years ago 3
What really happened on 9/11 is not a distraction, it is the key to everything:
Without 9/11 thousands of U.S. troops would not have been sent to their deaths.
Without 9/11 hundreds of thousands of citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan would not have been sentenced to their deaths.
Without 9/11 there would be no inaction on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
Without 9/11 there would be no civilian contractors in Iraq and the scandal that has followed them would have been averted.
insidejob323 3 years ago 3
What really happened on 9/11 is not a distraction, it is the key to everything:
Without 9/11 there would be no war on terror.
Without 9/11 there would be no clash of civilizations
Without 9/11 there would be no war in Afghanistan.
Without 9/11 there would be no war in Iraq.
Without 9/11 there would be no war in Iran.
Without 9/11 there would be no war in (insert any country classified as part of the axis of evil or defined as being with the terrorists)
insidejob323 3 years ago 3
Alright, its your vid. He's a fake and gonna have a 5000character field day with these posts.
zacharysly 3 years ago
Let him waste his time, then. He's a troll, and I'm not gonna feed him.
Burnside69x 3 years ago
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I hope that you have not applied the term "troll" to me only because we do not agree. On the message boards that I have written, a "troll" was someone who said particular things only to stimulate or agitate or precipitate a response (somewhat like al Qaeda did on 9/11).
I also hope that you did not produce this video solely for a choir of yes men and that you would instead encourage discussion, regardless of the stances expressed.
horseytown 3 years ago
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911TruthPusher's board is pretty depressing compared to this one, as much of it has digressed into Jew this and Jew that. I realize that some of those people might be actual trolls mocking the Truther community, but I stand firm in my belief that anti-Semites are overrepresented in the Truther community.
This did not originate in 2001, the marginalized CT communities have always been plagued by nativist xenophobes and racists and bigots (fear and all that).
horseytown 3 years ago
Burnside69x, when are you gonna figure out that Horseytown is not a legitimate commenter. Do you really think that someone is coincidentally leaving 3500 character comments which cover the entire message board anytime someone exposes Zinn as a left gatekeeper in the comments. Jesus. Its one thing to legitimately agree or disagree with Zinn. Its another thing when you clearly work for him. Horseytown is here to take over your message board while pretending to be a passionate outside observer.
dtoma555 3 years ago
I don't believe in censorship in any way, shape or form, so don't look to me to block him or remove his comments. As far as I'm concerned, he can embarrass himself publicly all he wants. As for him "working" for Zinn... that's pure speculation and I'm not gonna go there.
Burnside69x 3 years ago
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"I don't believe in censorship in any way, shape or form"
Well, even if you do not agree with me and think nothing of respect from me, I greatly respect you for saying that. In fact, I believe that I somewhat regret chewing your ear out earlier. It stands that I disagree with what you have done here, but now that the anger has somewhat subsided, I do feel that you are at least somewhat reasonable.
Unlike some others I might mention.
horseytown 3 years ago
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Are you insane, dtoma? I do not work for Zinn (does he even have "employees" other than a press agent and publisher?) nor do I have any connection to him. In fact, if you go back to my very first post either on this or the mirror of this video I do believe I mentioned that I wondered what I would say if I got to meet him, and how I found myself returning to the CT problem. Once at UQAM these Montreal Truth people spoke first and made my query unnecessary.
horseytown 3 years ago
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I did, however, ask him, as he was sitting at the table signing books, what should be done about the CTers and he laughed and said, "Ignore them."
Clearly I have yet to follow his advice.
But if gallenk, zacharysly and dtoma wish to continue with their elaborate fantasies... who am I to stop you.
I half want to start spouting off about Zion and Greater Israel and Moloch and my meetings with the Lords of International Finance and see how hysterical I can make you..
horseytown 3 years ago
you are insane.
alchemistvstiger 3 years ago
Why? - elaborate - or are you referring to Horseytown, in which case no explanation is necessary.
dtoma555 3 years ago
Sorry, nevermind, I too once was inspired by the works of Zinn and Chomsky AlchemistvsTiger, but eventually you will find that they only follow the information so far until it breaks the left/right paradigm which is where those two deadbeat left gatekeepers draw the line, and thats not insane pal. I'm insane in a way you would probably appreciate seeing as how you clearly study the works of Terrence McKenna, one of the most well-spoken, brilliantly abstract minds the Western world has produced.
dtoma555 3 years ago
look, i come from the camp that the government knew about the attacks and did nothing. I come from the camp that refuses to fall into the bottomless diversion of the bombs in the building because I strongly believe that it does more hindrance than help to movement. Building 7 is definitely strange and probably was bombs, it should be the key attack to forcing the Gov. and media and masses to look into this more. Too much of the 911 truth movement is sloppy and unproductive, self destructive.
alchemistvstiger 3 years ago
Try Michael Rupert, he broke the story for everyone and did the original investigating himself. He presents his case in the book "Crossing the Rubicon" This is a much more powerful way to change the minds of educated people. The Loose Change style only works on some...and unfortunately the wrong type to lead this kind of charge. All just my opinion of course, but I do highly suggest the Mike Rupert book if you have not read it.
alchemistvstiger 3 years ago
"Too much of the 911 truth movement is sloppy and unproductive, self destructive." Well how much is too little? 9/11 is the central premise for two wars and a pervasive shift of the purpose of our whole society. The war on terror that was launched with 9/11 justifies the KGB-like Homeland Security, the annulment of constitutional rights, and the general timbre of boogie man fear that now pervades our lives. Chomksy, Goodman, Zinn can't possibly justify their dismissals or denial of this issue.
nealkassanoff 3 years ago
He does not state that all of those so-called "9/11 Truthers" are fanatics. He says some of them are. And by posting this video with the editorial comments made here you are proving his point.
Zinn states that it should be investigated more carefully. BUT he says that it is NOT the most important matter to look after. His answer is that we should not drop everything else in order to do an investigation (and whoever would do the investigation would not be considered reliable enough anyway).
anakronysm 3 years ago
I don't think anyone ever said that "we should drop everything" in regards to 9/11 but he DID say, in Colorado, that he didn't care about 9/11 and that it was in the past... Coming from an historian, this is outrageous and insulting to the victims of this catastrophe and subsequent events.
Burnside69x 3 years ago
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Again with the demagoguery? Yes, he "insulted the dead" but expressing his lack of desire to personally involve himself in a movement he sees as an "ENDLESS controversy" (and it is not the first he has witnessed)..what a crime. You can be outraged all you want by his wording (and he is definitely angry - most everyone working in social justice is sick and tired of all this oversimplified CT nonsense), but what is more outrageous is your claiming he actually meant that...
His words in Colorado
horseytown 3 years ago
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he did not "care about 9/11" at all. Howard Zinn is not limited to these two isolated snapshots in time, and pretending that this is all to the man or his works is CRIMINAL and something you should be ashamed of. You are participating in the conscious distortion of a man who has contributed greatly to the wealth of knowledge you might possess today. I imagine you once respected him or you otherwise would not have challenged him.
horseytown 3 years ago
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But yet you have attempted to brand him as a traitor because of a particular wording of a sentence that tumbled staccato out of his mouth at an event in Colorado. You want his entire fifty year career erased and replaced with the word ENEMY, despite the fact that he is clearly concerned with 9/11, and that his voluminous works often touch on it and how it has been exploited. Look to a bookstore shelf for a recent example in Nancy Chang's Silencing Political Dissent where he denounces the P. Act.
horseytown 3 years ago
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What did he say in Colorado? It bears repeating:
"I don't care that much about its...That's past. I..I...really. [applause] To me that's a diversion. The whole argument people are engaged in about 'Was the government behind the conspiracy to blow up the Twin Towers?', to me that's a diversion from what we really have to do, which is deal with the fact that whatever ..."
cont'd:
horseytown 3 years ago
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"...whoever was behind 9/11, the government took advantage of that, took us to take us to war and to put us on a disastrous course. And it is that war, those wars, that disastrous course that we have to deal with. Now they want to go back into a controversy that I think is an endless controversy and it just gets in the way of dealing with the immediate situation."
horseytown 3 years ago
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Note that he NEVER FINISHED THE SENTENCE "I don't care that much about its" and that the word he stopped on was "its" with an S, denoting a poss. pronoun meaning, not "it".
He has been ASKED A QUESTION and is merely giving his PERSONAL REASONS for not JOINING the government conspiracy movement. It was not an expression of how he sees the event as meaningless or unimportant. You can choose the distortion and count Zinn as merely another in a growing list of imagined enemies, or you can be honest.
horseytown 3 years ago
Horseytown and Zinn ... both fukkin shills who'd blow anyone with a badge and a fistful of money. Instead of supporting the truth they make up excuses to battle against it. Hey horseshit ! Did you reply to me and say there was no evidence that your lover and master fed govt lied about 9/11 ???? Your a bigger piece shit than Zinn. Go blow each other you big suckass! Find more excuses ass !
gallenk1 3 years ago 2
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gallenk1 may have just snatched the title for most inarticulate gibberish on this thread. You can almost hear his hairy fists-mashing-the-keyboard.
The dependency on sexual imagery acts as a window to your soul. You and dtoma should hook up.
horseytown 3 years ago
i calls them as you squeeze them ...
gallenk1 3 years ago
Horseytown comes to the message board again with a 3000 character post right after I said he would with his DISINFO WALLPAPER. Youre a sick joke and you choke on Zinn balls. Thats why you type so much because you're swallowing Zinn all the time, you sycophantic parasite. Keep your posts brief you fucking devil
dtoma555 3 years ago
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Let us for a moment accept your fantasy for a second, and let us say that I am solely dedicated to knocking messages off the first page of this pitiful little video (I am not, but this is an idea from whose gravity you cannot escape - it must be your most brilliant idea in years) ...why would you be at all troubled by my "disinfo" seeing as you have contributed no "info" of your own?
At least Zinn has balls, which is more than one could say about a shrill, whimpering puss like you.
horseytown 3 years ago
Horseytown filmed the entire Zinn theatrical garbage display. Its clear they work closely together. Horseytown's pitiful and pathetic job is to make sure all the comments that cleverly expose the left gatekeeping tactics of Coward Zinn are removed from front and center by ridiculously long and boring 2500+ comments which take up the entire message boards of both copies of this vid. I think dtoma555 is dead on with this one
zacharysly 3 years ago 4
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"I think dtoma555 is dead on with this one"
Are you people for real? Seriously? Are you truly this much like sheep?
Please inform me as to which posts you claim "cleverly expose" ANYTHING.
horseytown 3 years ago
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You asked before in what way did you lie about Howard Zinn's position and I forgot to ask you what you believed this video would achieve.
No.1 - you have misrepresented his statements as being entirely dismissive of the tragic significance of the event, and have steered appraisal of them away from their more critical intent and his observation that he does not believe that it is the end all of political discourse, and that the entire movement cannot be expected to sit around obsessed with it
horseytown 3 years ago
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And in fact your actions are a potent example of the religious zealotry of the 911 movement. You accept no understanding of 911 other than that which you believe - you simply CANNOT ACCEPT that some very bright people have sat down and have pored over the same information as you and NOT arrived at the same conclusion as you (ie that the government did it). A failure to join your ranks is nothing more than evidence of moral failure or simply not enough of your type of research.
horseytown 3 years ago
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Or, more ominously, it is to you evidence of allegiances to more sinister elements responsible for the attacks. There are only two possibilities - dereliction of duty or active complicity in mass murder - in your eyes. It could NEVER POSSIBLY BE that YOU might be WRONG - NO, that is an IMPOSSIBILITY. Such ARROGANCE. And this is to what he spoke in both Montreal and Colorado. He endorsed an independent investigation but cautioned that 911 should not become the movement's central argument.
horseytown 3 years ago
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And yes, he, like Chomsky, Gwynne Dyer, Goodman, Cockburn, myself and many thousands of activists, have looked closely at the evidence and concluded that there exists no evidence that necessarily leads one to the conclusions of the "Truth Movement". And you want to know what? FACE THE FACT THAT HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU. And no, this does not make him a "gatekeeper" (do you even realize how infantile and theatrical these terms are?). But no, it is not enough for you fanatics and so you hound..
horseytown 3 years ago
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all of these figures that you feel are OBLIGATED to carry and disseminate your particular world view. If they do not acquiese they can expect to be publicly denounced as apostates. And so the 911 RELIGIOUS movement has developed its own form of the Taliban's "beard patrol", identifying those in defiance of the presumed "truth" and administering public floggings to all those parties as a warning to others.
horseytown 3 years ago
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Your little stunts (and your fanatical ilk has perpetrated them against Dyer, Klein, Zinn, Chomsky, Dyer, Goodman and probably dozens of others) achieve nothing but further splinter the discourse, 9/11 fundamentalists now being advised to reject the words of those branded heretical apostates.
Yes, this sort or zealotry does nothing but reinforce what Zinn said: that SOME PEOPLE (some people like you) are obsessed with 911 and have lost the plot.
horseytown 3 years ago
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And so, in lieu of anything constructive, the 911 fanatics will collectively waste an incredible amount of time denouncing those they assume to be quislings.
I just looked up the others (Goodman, Klein, Chomsky, etc.) in YouTube and have now become aware that some of your ilk are ACTUALLY PROUD of their little fascistic beard patrols, and refer to them affectionately as "Truth Squads"
If this were not so sad I might be laughing.
horseytown 3 years ago
Sad? Youre a sad piece o `horsey' shit! Instead of facing facts and acknowledging what is completely 10000% certain ... that your govt whom youd blow into contentment ... LIED out their ass and covered up the biggest fuckin crime in US history that led to 2 wars so far and you wanna defend that old fukin piece shit Zinn in saying it aint important ?? Go suck off your masters you piece o horseshit
gallenk1 3 years ago 5