E. coli Bacteria Proves Evolution

[fosm4]

Did it create "new" life or just reproduce like we do?

[EnlightenedReader]

@fosm4 Evolution is not concerned with the origin of life. That's abiogenesis. Evolution is the scientific theory that explains the diversity of life.

[amoxtlacatl]

@TheoryIsSpeculation

Typical debate strategy of the religious: you call a naturalist understanding of reality "religion" so you can attack it.

Evolution has already happened. You are simply too close-minded to study the evidence and see that it is reasonable to conclude that evolution has happened and we are one of its multifarious -but not inevitable- results.

Do you accept DNA analysis as able to provide evidence of parentage or relatedness in a legal arena?

[amoxtlacatl]

@TheoryIsSpeculation

You quote Scripture first among your books. You believe in the Bible god, yes? Otherwise, I find it hard to understand where your opposition to evolution comes from. Please disabuse me.

Please google "Observed Instances of Evolution".

There is your evidence. Also, there is "forensic" evidence for evolution in the thousands of transitional forms found in the fossil record and confirmed by DNA analysis of modern species.

Of course, you will deny this, right?

[amoxtlacatl]

@TheoryIsSpeculation

By the way, is gravity speculation? Is germ theory speculation? I refer specifically to your name. I would like an answer.

If you already think the videos I sent you to are flawed, you are possibly beyond any hope of reasoning and will oppose verifiable science that produces verifiable results while believing in an unverified god.

Or you can shut me up by bringing your evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that a god exists.

[amoxtlacatl]

@TheoryIsSpeculation

My god? I have no god, mate. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Your flawed understanding is evidenced in that you expect a bacterium to evolve into a specific, very remote species before your eyes.

This is not so - such evolution takes place over very long periods of time as parents beget children who are almost but not quite identical to them. Little differences add up over huge periods of time to make huge differences.

And man will not necessarily be the result.

[amoxtlacatl]

@TheoryIsSpeculation

Imagine preaching an unverifiable god to hundreds, then thousands, then millions of people for the better part of two millenia, supported by the people who are content to believe in such preaching.

"Bacteria [...] evolves into Marilyn Monroe"

If the above is what your understanding of evolution, your understanding of evolution is grossly flawed.

Go watch AronRa's Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism, potholer54's "Made Easy" series, and DonExodus2's evolution videos.

[AbdultheImpailler]

@TheoryIsSpeculation YAWN....

[AbdultheImpailler]

@TheoryIsSpeculation You again...yawn...

[PawnBACM]

@TheoryIsSpeculation scienceblogs (dot) com/loom/2008/06/02/a_new_step­_in_evolution (dot) php

[PawnBACM]

@TheoryIsSpeculation . Many species of bacteria can eat citrate, but in an oxygen-rich environment like Lenski's lab, E. coli can't. The problem is that the bacteria can't pull the molecule in through their membranes. In fact, their failure has long been one of the defining hallmarks of E. coli as a species.

[PawnBACM]

@TheoryIsSpeculation But sometime around the 31,500th generation, something dramatic happened in just one of the populations - the bacteria suddenly acquired the ability to metabolise citrate, a second nutrient in their culture medium that E. colinormally cannot use.

Indeed, the inability to use citrate is one of the traits by which bacteriologists distinguish E. coli from other species.

[AbdultheImpailler]

@TheoryIsSpeculation Evolution is a philosophy....really??? BAHAHAHAHAHA

[bebop7c2]

@TheoryIsSpeculation Science is the way in which we understand our universe, not guessing that some magical creature created us because someon else said he did.

Philosophy and religions, don't have much to do with science. So, I think it's ok to leave the non-factual stuff out of science. If someone had other demonstrable evidence I'm sure the science community would look at it.

[bebop7c2]

@TheoryIsSpeculation "All other philosophies" ?

There are 2 philosophies I know of, a magical one, and the realistic evolutionary one.

[bebop7c2]

@TheoryIsSpeculation This person was giving a good example of how a mutation had a possitive outcome. We didn't just pop into this universe, is that what you think?

[bebop7c2]

@TheoryIsSpeculation Evolution takes time for larger creatures.

I find it cool that some elephants are being born without tusks. This is an evolutionary response to people hunting elephnats, because people only want the tusks, if an elephant doesn't have tusks they have a greater chance of survival.

Evolution is amazing and a fact, it's how we came to be here. Discoverying this was one of mans greatest achievements.

[AbdultheImpailler]

@TheoryIsSpeculation yes you did, look above, it says conment removed...your comment

[AbdultheImpailler]

@TheoryIsSpeculation spouting insults isn't a way to start a conversation, why did you remove your comment about Darwin's book? cuz you were wrong and didn't want anyone to see?

[ApocaIypseNow0I2]

@TheoryIsSpeculation

are you a horsepoo munching fundie faggot fairy princess?

[bebop7c2]

@ApocaIypseNow0I2 Why so harsh on gay people?

[kajsilud]

whats up with the link? firefox says "This Connection is Untrusted" :S

[KrookedKidVids]

He's not the most interesting speaker, but what he's speaking about IS!

[michaelsterling37]

Yea if being made in a lab proves Evolution, then yes.

[benthemiester]

I know this sounds harsh but unless this experiment can be repeated which could have easily been done with a double blind controlled sister experiment it cannot be regarded a empirical.

[benthemiester]

If u can find bacteria that changes into something else other than bacteria which theoretically should be possible over several decades since it replicates every 9 hours, then you will have a major find. Mutating bacteria that loses information rather than gain new information even if to gain a functional advantage is not really evolution in the classic sense. James Shapiro is not a creationist but he has written extensively on self engineering bacteria for those with an open and critical mind.

[DesiFreethinkers]

@benthemiester

Why several decades? It would take at least a few hundred years, you do realise that bacteria are as evolved as we are- they've had billions of years to "specialise".

"replicates every 9 hours"

It's usually much quicker than this, ranges from 20mins to an hour depending on conditions.

"empirical"

It's still empirical, we're not talking about developing drugs here, but the ability for an organism to evolve a feature its ancestors lacked.

[benthemiester]

@DesiFreethinkers Empirical science is defined by not just what can be observed, but what can be repeated so that others can confirm that it is indeed repeatable & falsifiable. It may be that u & I have a different definition of what constitutes empirical science. The miracles of Fatima were observed by thousand of eyewitness including the press & non religious people, yet it cannot or should I say has not been repeated, so it cannot be considered science. Empirical science makes no distinction.

[criskity]

Creationism pwned!!

[paloozapoofshhh]

@criskity

you are so gullible. none of this trash is true... your saying that a hamster can turn into a horse in a few years... your saying a dog can turn into a giraffe...your saying a lion can turn into a monkey...wow thats so stupid!!!!! open your eyes.

[criskity]

@paloozapoofshhh I'm not saying that; YOU are. You haven't got a clue how evolution works. First, major phenotypical changes can take thousands of generations. Second, organisms don't evolve laterally across phylogenetic groups; only within them (some dinosaurs evolved into birds, but you'll never see a lion evolve into a monkey). Third: individual organisms don't evolve; populations do. You'll never see one organism becoming another. Try LEARNING about evolution first before criticizing it.

[paloozapoofshhh]

@criskity

uhhh i was just saying I dont believe in evolution. you can!!! dont care about other people reading this comment that think im stupid they could just keep scrolling down the page and read other peoples comments.

[criskity]

@paloozapoofshhh If you don't accept evolution, it may be your opinion, but it's a wrongful one.

[paloozapoofshhh]

@criskity

sure.

[trextoter]

It's sad the fallacies people fall for. Comparing sexually-reproducing life to life which reproduces without sex is apples-to-oranges. Even if we choose to imagine little germs like bacteria evolving, that says nothing about plants and animals. They do undergo recombination, but their recombination is not the same as ours. ...And of course if we're going to imagine them evolving, it's much easier if we forget about recombination altogether.

[bluemoonrising26]

@trextoter

"It's sad the fallacies people fall for (you mean like the Bible trextoter?). Comparing sexually-reproducing life to life which reproduces without sex is apples-to-oranges(more Granny Smith's to Golden Delicious trex)"

You. Are. Clutching. At. Straws.

[trextoter]

@bluemoonrising26 Grow. Up. Child. And. Learn. How. Sentences. Work.

[bluemoonrising26]

@bluemoonrising26

I think you're the child. You can't understand pre-school science and have an imaginary friend who is his own dad. Now fuck off and read a biology textbook.

[trextoter]

@ChristConquers Don't ever think you'll find anything worthwhile reading evohype. They tell you "read Darwin." Say you do. Come back, squash Darwin like a bug. "Oh that's long been abandoned. We have all sorts of new stuff now".

They have nothing. If they did, they wouldn't need an argument-from-spam. Every element is worthless and THEY know it.

(Not that you're so silly as to fall for the ploy...)

[AbdultheImpailler]

@trextoter sounds like you've been watching too many nephy vids

[RaytownSoClassof2010]

Richard Lenski rejected a request to release his bacteria mutation data to the public.I wonder why that is.Hmmmm is it because the results arent exactly in favor of evolution?Probably the latter.

[AbdultheImpailler]

@RaytownSoClassof2010 citation please

[AbdultheImpailler]

@RaytownSoClassof2010 ps. did you check the link in the video description that I provided? Funny, that link is to the data that you are claiming he refuses to give out.

So my question to you is, has someone given you bad information and you are unknowingly spreading it or are you just a liar?

[RaytownSoClassof2010]

@AbdultheImpailler saw the link.But still he did reject a request before.

[AbdultheImpailler]

@RaytownSoClassof2010 I'll say it one more time, citation please, show me documented proof that Dr. Lenski rejected a request for his data from someone wanting to review his findings.

I want names, dates and contact info so I can verify your claim myself, if you refuse to supply me with this info, well, you do the math...

[RaytownSoClassof2010]

@AbdultheImpailler Have you ever heard of "Searching" Lazy man.Search the very phrase you used on Google "Dr. Lenski rejected a request for his data ".His data does not prove macro evolution only micro evolution.Which creationist accept anyway.

[AbdultheImpailler]

@RaytownSoClassof2010 I'm not lazy, you made a claim, I'm asking you to provide your evidence to support your claim just as you would ask of me making a claim

[AbdultheImpailler]

@RaytownSoClassof2010 ps. these isn't a macro/micro evolution difference, this is just a catch phrase made up by Kent Hovind or one of the other popular creationists to distract you, the christian, so that you will not look more in-depth into the various fields involving evolution

[trextoter]

@AbdultheImpailler "ps. these isn't a macro/micro evolution difference, this is just a catch phrase made up by Kent Hovind or one of the other popular creationists to distract you, the christian, so that you will not look more in-depth into the various fields involving evolution"

Oh I missed that one! No no no. What? You've been pushing evolutionism for 3 months? Or is that just a deliberate lie? Look up the terms - it ain't hard. Creationists made up neither. Goodness!

[trextoter]

@AbdultheImpailler What's up with that link? Firefox says that site is "untrusted".

[AbdultheImpailler]

@trextoter There's nothing wrong with the link, it goes to Michigan State Univ.

[trextoter]

@AbdultheImpailler Well, I got onto the university's site via a google search, so it's no big deal. Kinda strange that it'd do that. Might be a YouTube issue for all I know.

[zenithar6666]

the fact taht things evolve or change over time is so obvious as to not need a theory, its the mechanisms in questinon, I for one feel bacteria could be against evolution in its current theory,one would think we would see truely new species emerging from rapidly reproducign bacteria in the expdriments, but they all rmain bacteria even after millions of generations I mean a truly diffenrt speices like a lizard to a bird etc!

[mejc2]

If you could find lucy and reanimate her today, you would have a knuckle walking ape alive today.

Great Richard Dawkins points out that Richard Lenski shows that bacteria can adapt to different food supply. Well, I guess that proves evolution of molecules to man.

Thanks.

[AbdultheImpailler]

@ChristConquers go to the website link I provided and read the professor's papers, plenty of evidence there for you.

If that isn't good enough for you, try going to a library and reading some books or peer reviewed papers, all the information you seek is in there

[AbdultheImpailler]

@ChristConquers You're living on the evidence, it's called planet earth, if you dare, open your eyes and mind to all possibilities and you will understand

[wahhho]

i say evolution is partialy true. i mean something started it all and life developed on its own

[JoshCM9JoshCM9]

The evidence mounts by the day and once again science comes through!!! Also the new book is great. The Selfish Gene will always be #1, but The Greatest Show on Earth is a very close 2nd.

[AbdultheImpailler]

I just finished reading The Selfish Gene, it was very informative and interesting to say the least. I now have to start On The Origin of Species, after that I think I will read The Extended Phenotype and then some papers from WD Hamilton and others...I hope my eyes don't fall out!

Happy Reading!

[Maikl71]

Not having read anything of Dawkins yet I'm going to buy this book. Some title...and so true! A theory that has become self-reflective, a "show" that's started watching itself, via us.

[fettkatt87]

God Exist that is 100% SURE.

[AbdultheImpailler]

prove it...and you can't use the bible

[LookAVid]

@AbdultheImpailler You look like Einstein x)

[AbdultheImpailler]

@LookAVid I've heard that before, I just wish i were as intelligent as him

[LookAVid]

@AbdultheImpailler He never took an IQ test because they weren't yet made at that time, but his estimated IQ was 160-180. Woah.

Source: Google.

[truvelocity]

Ew.  That's so off topic.

[TruthSearcher123]

@fettkatt87 GOD DON'T REAL

[LookAVid]

@fettkatt87 So god is a biochemist? He just went "There will now be humans." and poof, there were humans, with perfectly made bodies for the world we made for ourselves. Not god.

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

:D

loved the video ;D

[rockerwere]

AIDs actually proves evolution too... there are now a lot of women in Africa becoming immune to the disease, when they have kids their kids will be immune and their kids will have kids and so on...

Eventually, AIDS as we know it will be nothing! However, it will probably mutate in some way... Then we will be fucked again. LoL!

[AncientAtheist]

Lenski is great. Before I knew about his work, I read something he wrote that made incredible sense. That evolution is as much a fact as any other mundane fact we know, and that all of the "controversy" simply centers around The Theory of Evolution. Take away the Theory of Evolution and evolution is still fact. You'd just need a different way to explain how it happened.

[CanadienAtheist]

Interesting. You have to like real world science!

I definitely need to read that book.

[AbdultheImpailler]

I got the hardcover version at Chapters 10 days ago for $27 instead of the regular price of $47 or $48

I'm about 2/3 through it so far, it's taking me longer than normal to read a book because I keep going back to re-read something just to make sure I'm understanding everything or not misinterpreting anything but so far, I'm really enjoying it

Science for the victory!!!!

[ChrisTheTruckDriver]

One of the best parts of this result is the effect it has on the creationist argument that information can only be lost. If information can only be lost, then the previous generations of ecoli should have been able to process citric acid.

[AbdultheImpailler]

I think this is exactly why Dawkins mentioned this experiment in his book, a great example of evolution at work right in front of our eyes!

[TLSlayer]

im about to purchase the god delusion from ebay but i have to wait for my money to process to my paypal account which will be completed on dec 1 apparently.

[ItsDaSuperFly]

I read the MSU study a few months ago. Was a great example of evolution. Great to see you brought it up.

[AbdultheImpailler]

thanks SuperFly, I found it fascinating reading about it in Dawkins book that I put the book down and went and found the study to read the more in depth data, quite interesting to say the least