This is one of the better, if not the best, armor test that Ive seen on youtube. They use a wide variety of relevant armors, bows of sufficient power to recreate realistic shots by loosing from 25-30 meters in order to simulate a bow of double the poundage firing from a distance likely to occur in combat-as well as using the heavy canvas and cow ribs to help simulate penetration of heavy clothing and ribcage..... I was impressed-at least compared to most "armor tests" on youtube
Butted chainmail, extremely poor quality riveted mail, no gambeson or aketon, unrealistic condition for arrow ranges, another useless test. You and bigbowbrum can be friends now.
The chain mail isnt in the good way, you have to flip your mail patterns by 90degrees, if you want to test and comment on chainmail, at least use it right.
Seriously, it's quite boring to see butted mail gets owned by an arrow. Butted mail was never used historically in Europe so any test with it is pointless.
@Protherium urrm this is called 'armour piercing tests trying a range of armour so before you bias armour knowledge goes down the bin just accept what an arrow can do to this stuff
are those arrowheads on that mass collection or arrows sockets heads? i see they are sinew wrapped and they look cool but i never seen socketed heads wrapped b4, only the kind that have a split in them like flat stoneheads...
a gamby is easy to get throw with a war bow the lossed an arrow thorw plate and chain in to blistic gell with ribs in it the arrow just tuched the skin but when they looked it broke 3 of the ribs
3:00 you have your mail hanging side ways. Mail should be set up so the links are hanging like a single chain, one off the other, with the one next to them side looped in.
No, a good 100lbs bow and a good hardened arrowhead will pierce any chainmail. When it comes to hardened platearmour its different. Still the impact will not be that harmless.
I believe that a suit of low carbon kingsmaille with 14 guage steel links and interior diamters of less than 3/16th of an inch would have survived a shot. Also the archers where shooting from a relatively close distance and you should consider the bow weight. As ligonater stated, one would have jerkins or gambeson under neath. I guess the more important question is would the chain slow the arrow enough along with the under padding to keep you alive. Granted chain is build for cut protection.
@Kelethin25 Fully agree, as I mentioned below in provious posts even naked linen gambeson is hard to pierce. You have to choose right arrowheads to do it. Ex. 20 layers of sewed linen is enough to stop simple bodkin but only linen sleeve and jerkins under is I think not enough.
@Kelethin25 plate armor is to stop thrusts and chainmail to stop cuts, theres a experiment with a katana vs viking chainmail doing nothing but a bit of bruising to the guy wearing it.Archers mainly were long range, crossbows were shorter range , powerful and more accurate thats why they spent more cash on better steel crossbow bolt heads since it was cost effective.WArhammers were gd vs plate and lances amazing vs chainmail the billhook was a cheap alternative as well.
The interior diameter of the rings is what really make the diffrence, I must admit that I am a bit surprise that it passed through a suit of riveted chain but again, if the rings had been small I feel the outcome would have been diffrent and seeing how riveted chain links taper off in to a much thiner guage that the rest of the ring it does make it easier to break at that point.
Chainmaille (of any kind) was never ultimately designed to stop (or slow down) arrows anyways.
The arrows usually came /after/ the initial hack & slash, to which the guys in maille (usually) had warning. --Just so they could hide under their shields, or "under" their plate-armour-wearing battle-mates.
In my tests, I found that adding just a little bit of leather behind or in front of the mail prevented any significant penetration of the mail. Did you try mail and leather in any of your tests? I could see that it looked like you had a set of pork ribs beneath the mail. Just curious as to how deep your penetration was when you got penetration. my tests can be seen by searching youtube with "tarrachalfson" if you are curious.
40lbs. is generally regarded as the lowest draw weight allowed for deer hunting by most wildlife departments. Archery however is all about shot placement as it kills primarily with internal bleeding.
probably not, but it will injure the deer for sure. Not sure it will kill it though, cause on a previous test, it says 100 Ib of pull is needed to kill a human, and a deer is about the size of one.
You can kill a deer with a 35# draw. 40# draw is considered hunting legal, at least in the State of Washington. Of course, ethical hunting range with a bow is pretty much limited to about 20 yards, with 30 yards pretty much the upper limit.
i think that chainmail was very good against barbed arrow head and that is very good because the injuries produce by the armor piercin points are no so bad like the barbed ones
but nobody used hunting arrowheads against chainmill, when you see your target you choose right arrowhead to maximize injury, and for chainmill you choosing needle bodkin, simple as 123
Yes but if the target dont use chainmail is a lot worse for the target because is expose to a barbed arrowhead. I want to see a test with a silk coat on a pork body
re discussion on correct way to make chainmail, most museums on the Vikings state that Nordic chainmail was alternately riveted and welded. I've not seen discussions on other forms. It was invented to protect against cutting edges, chainmail is useless against blunt weapons.
in addition, the drawweights of english warbows (tudor warbows) roughly varied from 150#-200#. more than twice as strong as this bow.
so yes, chainmail gives very little protection against arrows.
I did some tests for 'shields' on a 25mm multiplex board. This stuff is really heavy, and I wouldn't want to use it for shieds, but I still managed to penetrate it with my 130#er, and unhardened bodkins.
looks like the mail was hung incorrectly. to provide maximum flexibility, the mail would have had the rings facing left right left etc, not stright up and down if you get my meaning. also would have been riveted.
many also seem to forget that most soldiers who could afford chainmail could afford a horse, and it was the unarmoured horse that caused most charges against bowmen to fail. they also had shields.
For chainmail I use arrowheads invented just to pierce it and doesnt matter how it is hung, rivets are just broken and rings are open by head. That what we tested it was piercing not archers skills so we didnt bothered abt shield etc. Music is Chopin. Thx for comment
In my opinion as far as arrowhead point end diameter is smaller than diameter of ring in chainmail we dont need to consider other factors, finger size object forces rings to move to center of force vector but not small ones which pierces through free spaces than braking rivets. Force spot must cover at least two rings to make it move except this one which was made ba Dwarfs in Moria :)
Hi Roy, nice piercing. What was the thickness of the plate? I belive that is 0.8-1.2mm . It is funny with penetration that every 0.2 mm increase of thickness you need energy in logarytmic progress. Anyway I have to shoot once wreck car as it is funny and spectacular.
Agree but Chainmill piercing is not punctating metal but breaking rivets. Most important in this situation is geometry of arrowhead. Metal used for heads is nothing special, it is construction 10mm wire. Actually pics are taken during medieval festival and they are not part of our tests which includes more factors as Vo and V before hit. Im not kind of person who wants to revitalize legends but to know the trurth by experiments :)
after many tests with plates in my opinion it was enough to stop the arrow. Everyone says that crossbow killed the bow in history of war. In my opinion it was plate armour factor which determined replacing bow with crossbow. Even if you pierce plates you dont pierce deadly. So for steel lamellars and plates even comfortable conditions for piercing are not enough :) Others tries to make legends live producing unpullable bows to proove it would pierce from 200m :) they lost the way..
alright you made a much better video than most armour piercing videos, but there were flaws first 20m is quite a bit closer than most arrows would be fired from, second the armour should never be tested against such a hard backing try something softer i always thought arrows could pierce almost any armour after testing it myself i found that i was quite wrong and dont for get the padded soft backing relative to a padded human body is important when testing armour.
- dummies were made of soft material like a deadstop, kinda pillow stuffed with foam, plastic bags etc fixed to wooden board. After punch it would move like boxing dummy
- C-shaped pig ribbs where placed opposite side than normal position and worked as springs
- 20m cuz some targets (mean parts of armours) were quite small
- lamellar and steel plates are unpiercable even from short distances
Okay, I know that the controversy was not about whether longbows can penetrate plates or not. The controversy was whether longbows could penetrate steel plates. Earlier plates would have been penetrated, but it would have been under 100 meters. However, I could not find any sources on this. Do you have any academic/ reliable sources about longbows piercing non steel plates at a decent range (>50 meters)?
Nice stuff there. Few questions though. On the rivetted chainmail. I see one penetration but is that an arrow just barely hanging on right next to it? Would you class that as a "resist"?
Also, what kind of metal was the chain? Stainless or iron?
And finally, what kind of head was used there? Same as the other or a bladed?
Glad to see a more objective test. Most chainmail tests against arrows are unfairly done with butted link and bodkins.
Riveted one was pierced with turkish replica arrowhead (turkish type 3), second from right on the pic with my quiver load (counter 0:40). This hanging arrow with red cordage (and shoot) was not mine, it was long bow with bodkin and shoot could be stapled as "resisted". Im not sure if chain was steel or just iron :( I was free to choose arrow I would use to kill man wearing all that stuff (and turkish was choosen) :) Interesting is lamellar I thought that I will brake teeth on.
Chainmail is made to stop SLASHING not percing type attacks MOST arrows will break chainmail.
Zswordwielder 2 months ago
I think arrowheads were made of iron and and chainmail was worn in layers. Key words, "I think". Good vid
mojothemigo 2 months ago
This is one of the better, if not the best, armor test that Ive seen on youtube. They use a wide variety of relevant armors, bows of sufficient power to recreate realistic shots by loosing from 25-30 meters in order to simulate a bow of double the poundage firing from a distance likely to occur in combat-as well as using the heavy canvas and cow ribs to help simulate penetration of heavy clothing and ribcage..... I was impressed-at least compared to most "armor tests" on youtube
legioXequestriis 5 months ago
Butted chainmail, extremely poor quality riveted mail, no gambeson or aketon, unrealistic condition for arrow ranges, another useless test. You and bigbowbrum can be friends now.
ValentineTheory 6 months ago
doesnt matter for piercing
dorisijanek 10 months ago
The chain mail isnt in the good way, you have to flip your mail patterns by 90degrees, if you want to test and comment on chainmail, at least use it right.
alexanderskeleton 10 months ago
Seriously, it's quite boring to see butted mail gets owned by an arrow. Butted mail was never used historically in Europe so any test with it is pointless.
Protherium 10 months ago
@Protherium urrm this is called 'armour piercing tests trying a range of armour so before you bias armour knowledge goes down the bin just accept what an arrow can do to this stuff
minxel16 8 months ago
lamellar > chainmail
ishouldplayzelda 10 months ago
Good thing all your arrows hit head on in ideal circumstances.
Andernerd 11 months ago
guess that's why they wore lammelar coats and shoulder armours when they could. what range was the riveted mail armor tested at?
LutefiskSavage 11 months ago
@LutefiskSavage between 20 and 30 mteres
dorisijanek 11 months ago
what kind of wood do you use on the shafts of these pieces of Art mate?
TheSeekerBG 1 year ago
@TheSeekerBG Northern pine and 10yrs seasoned regular pine, some cedar could happened
dorisijanek 11 months ago
What a waste of perfectly good meat. :(
finnpalm 1 year ago
y are you ppl shooting at something that is supposed to stop ure arm from gettin cut off. Of course an arrow will go thro chainmail >.>
headbusta25 1 year ago
"Within Temptation - Mother Earth"
Good job YouTube. You made me rage.
pauleau 1 year ago
use armadyl armour! lmao (runescape)
spongebob1872 1 year ago
lame no live video
TheKyla1981 1 year ago
F. CHOPIN
Kazakliev 1 year ago
are those arrowheads on that mass collection or arrows sockets heads? i see they are sinew wrapped and they look cool but i never seen socketed heads wrapped b4, only the kind that have a split in them like flat stoneheads...
lordlen8972 1 year ago
@lordlen8972
some shafts were wrapped for tanged arrowheads but used for socketed when no tanged left
cheers
Jan
dorisijanek 1 year ago
a gamby is easy to get throw with a war bow the lossed an arrow thorw plate and chain in to blistic gell with ribs in it the arrow just tuched the skin but when they looked it broke 3 of the ribs
teddybear1111111 1 year ago
How many of you guys know what they are talking about and how many of you are talking out of their ass ?
mwillblade 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
My M16 will beat any POS chainmail armor you guys have.
TheRealTaco87 2 years ago
Too bad you're just a taco.
Morsigil 2 years ago
Im a Taco with cheese thank you very much!
TheRealTaco87 2 years ago
yeah but im a SPICY ONE!
TheRealTaco87 1 year ago
@TheRealTaco87 nobody cares
farter1a2b3c 1 year ago
3:00 you have your mail hanging side ways. Mail should be set up so the links are hanging like a single chain, one off the other, with the one next to them side looped in.
amy8lemon 2 years ago 2
No, a good 100lbs bow and a good hardened arrowhead will pierce any chainmail. When it comes to hardened platearmour its different. Still the impact will not be that harmless.
Pourleduc 2 years ago 9
I believe that a suit of low carbon kingsmaille with 14 guage steel links and interior diamters of less than 3/16th of an inch would have survived a shot. Also the archers where shooting from a relatively close distance and you should consider the bow weight. As ligonater stated, one would have jerkins or gambeson under neath. I guess the more important question is would the chain slow the arrow enough along with the under padding to keep you alive. Granted chain is build for cut protection.
Kelethin25 2 years ago 2
@Kelethin25 generally good aketone is hard to pierce, if it is stuffed with horsehair i very good protection
Jan
dorisijanek 2 years ago
@Kelethin25 Fully agree, as I mentioned below in provious posts even naked linen gambeson is hard to pierce. You have to choose right arrowheads to do it. Ex. 20 layers of sewed linen is enough to stop simple bodkin but only linen sleeve and jerkins under is I think not enough.
Cheers
Jan
dorisijanek 1 year ago
@Kelethin25 plate armor is to stop thrusts and chainmail to stop cuts, theres a experiment with a katana vs viking chainmail doing nothing but a bit of bruising to the guy wearing it.Archers mainly were long range, crossbows were shorter range , powerful and more accurate thats why they spent more cash on better steel crossbow bolt heads since it was cost effective.WArhammers were gd vs plate and lances amazing vs chainmail the billhook was a cheap alternative as well.
thelondongeezer 1 year ago
The interior diameter of the rings is what really make the diffrence, I must admit that I am a bit surprise that it passed through a suit of riveted chain but again, if the rings had been small I feel the outcome would have been diffrent and seeing how riveted chain links taper off in to a much thiner guage that the rest of the ring it does make it easier to break at that point.
Kelethin25 2 years ago
What's the song?
thiefx100 2 years ago
Chopin - Nocturn
dorisijanek 2 years ago
Thank you very much
thiefx100 2 years ago
Very cool, though some live video would be interesting. Thanks for posting.
BardofCornwall 2 years ago
Chainmaille (of any kind) was never ultimately designed to stop (or slow down) arrows anyways.
The arrows usually came /after/ the initial hack & slash, to which the guys in maille (usually) had warning. --Just so they could hide under their shields, or "under" their plate-armour-wearing battle-mates.
ultraplanarian 2 years ago
In my tests, I found that adding just a little bit of leather behind or in front of the mail prevented any significant penetration of the mail. Did you try mail and leather in any of your tests? I could see that it looked like you had a set of pork ribs beneath the mail. Just curious as to how deep your penetration was when you got penetration. my tests can be seen by searching youtube with "tarrachalfson" if you are curious.
tarrachalfson 2 years ago
They did wear, jerkins and gambesons under their maille, so that is completely period, I was wondering if anyone had ever tested that.
ligonater 2 years ago
Was wondering why the arrows just punched through the mail like it wasn't even there. Then I realised the mail was butted.
halfassedfart 2 years ago
You know Chuck Norris once killed a deer with a 5 lb draw weight, by factoring in the rotational speed of the earth.
Lassann 2 years ago 2
lol
mashedtedders 2 years ago
You can always kill a deer with kindness if the draw weight is not enough.
poobert 2 years ago
u can kill a deer with 35 pounds i tested it.
petermannche2007 2 years ago
do u think that 55 pound draw weight on the bow can kill a deer?
Hunter1000100 2 years ago
Im sure it is
dorisijanek 2 years ago
40lbs. is generally regarded as the lowest draw weight allowed for deer hunting by most wildlife departments. Archery however is all about shot placement as it kills primarily with internal bleeding.
HEDGEHOG19788 2 years ago
Oh, thanx for valuable comment
cheers
Janek
dorisijanek 2 years ago
probably not, but it will injure the deer for sure. Not sure it will kill it though, cause on a previous test, it says 100 Ib of pull is needed to kill a human, and a deer is about the size of one.
detectiveperson123 2 years ago
100lb is enough to kill 5 people LOL human life is fragile and can be terminated even with 20lbs
dorisijanek 2 years ago
You could kill a human with a pellet gun to the eye. Much less than 100 lbs of draw.
Lassann 2 years ago
How many times are you going to hit someone in the eye?
ligonater 2 years ago
Depends on your aim.
Lassann 2 years ago
@Lassann u can hert them badly but not kill them
modernplayer1 1 year ago
You can kill a deer with a 35# draw. 40# draw is considered hunting legal, at least in the State of Washington. Of course, ethical hunting range with a bow is pretty much limited to about 20 yards, with 30 yards pretty much the upper limit.
TheArabist 2 years ago
i think that chainmail was very good against barbed arrow head and that is very good because the injuries produce by the armor piercin points are no so bad like the barbed ones
globalgaucho 2 years ago
but nobody used hunting arrowheads against chainmill, when you see your target you choose right arrowhead to maximize injury, and for chainmill you choosing needle bodkin, simple as 123
dorisijanek 2 years ago
Yes but if the target dont use chainmail is a lot worse for the target because is expose to a barbed arrowhead. I want to see a test with a silk coat on a pork body
globalgaucho 2 years ago
What was the draw weight on the two bows you were using? Roughly even? I was just wondering? Nice video.
dom1940 2 years ago
Draw weight as on the movie first screens 74 lbs
dorisijanek 2 years ago
re discussion on correct way to make chainmail, most museums on the Vikings state that Nordic chainmail was alternately riveted and welded. I've not seen discussions on other forms. It was invented to protect against cutting edges, chainmail is useless against blunt weapons.
fishcat42 2 years ago
no but getting hit with a blunt weapon while wearing chainmaille will leave a pretty funny looking bruise
ligonater 2 years ago
theliberator,
the title says: armor penetration
not shield penetration :)
in addition, the drawweights of english warbows (tudor warbows) roughly varied from 150#-200#. more than twice as strong as this bow.
so yes, chainmail gives very little protection against arrows.
I did some tests for 'shields' on a 25mm multiplex board. This stuff is really heavy, and I wouldn't want to use it for shieds, but I still managed to penetrate it with my 130#er, and unhardened bodkins.
Nick
dutchwarbow 2 years ago
BTW chainmail was invented to protect from cutting edges.
Cheers
Jan
dorisijanek 2 years ago
looks like the mail was hung incorrectly. to provide maximum flexibility, the mail would have had the rings facing left right left etc, not stright up and down if you get my meaning. also would have been riveted.
many also seem to forget that most soldiers who could afford chainmail could afford a horse, and it was the unarmoured horse that caused most charges against bowmen to fail. they also had shields.
sorry if that was already pointed out
also what music is that playing? its really nice
theliberator1 2 years ago
For chainmail I use arrowheads invented just to pierce it and doesnt matter how it is hung, rivets are just broken and rings are open by head. That what we tested it was piercing not archers skills so we didnt bothered abt shield etc. Music is Chopin. Thx for comment
Jan
dorisijanek 2 years ago
yes i saw the riveted mail after i posted this comment. i still think that the direction of the weave effects its dispresion of the arrow's force.
thats a 4 in 1 weave though right? would be interesting to see an 8 in 2 (kingsmaille) sheet.
theliberator1 2 years ago
In my opinion as far as arrowhead point end diameter is smaller than diameter of ring in chainmail we dont need to consider other factors, finger size object forces rings to move to center of force vector but not small ones which pierces through free spaces than braking rivets. Force spot must cover at least two rings to make it move except this one which was made ba Dwarfs in Moria :)
Cheers
Janek
Correct my thinking if Im wrong
dorisijanek 2 years ago
Hi Roy, nice piercing. What was the thickness of the plate? I belive that is 0.8-1.2mm . It is funny with penetration that every 0.2 mm increase of thickness you need energy in logarytmic progress. Anyway I have to shoot once wreck car as it is funny and spectacular.
Cheers
Jan
dorisijanek 2 years ago
Agree but Chainmill piercing is not punctating metal but breaking rivets. Most important in this situation is geometry of arrowhead. Metal used for heads is nothing special, it is construction 10mm wire. Actually pics are taken during medieval festival and they are not part of our tests which includes more factors as Vo and V before hit. Im not kind of person who wants to revitalize legends but to know the trurth by experiments :)
Cheers
Jan
PS. I will send you PM with other link :)
dorisijanek 2 years ago
continued...
after many tests with plates in my opinion it was enough to stop the arrow. Everyone says that crossbow killed the bow in history of war. In my opinion it was plate armour factor which determined replacing bow with crossbow. Even if you pierce plates you dont pierce deadly. So for steel lamellars and plates even comfortable conditions for piercing are not enough :) Others tries to make legends live producing unpullable bows to proove it would pierce from 200m :) they lost the way..
dorisijanek 2 years ago
alright you made a much better video than most armour piercing videos, but there were flaws first 20m is quite a bit closer than most arrows would be fired from, second the armour should never be tested against such a hard backing try something softer i always thought arrows could pierce almost any armour after testing it myself i found that i was quite wrong and dont for get the padded soft backing relative to a padded human body is important when testing armour.
aries772 2 years ago
Hi Aries
Actually I had to follow organiser rules but
- dummies were made of soft material like a deadstop, kinda pillow stuffed with foam, plastic bags etc fixed to wooden board. After punch it would move like boxing dummy
- C-shaped pig ribbs where placed opposite side than normal position and worked as springs
- 20m cuz some targets (mean parts of armours) were quite small
- lamellar and steel plates are unpiercable even from short distances
dorisijanek 2 years ago
Okay, I know that the controversy was not about whether longbows can penetrate plates or not. The controversy was whether longbows could penetrate steel plates. Earlier plates would have been penetrated, but it would have been under 100 meters. However, I could not find any sources on this. Do you have any academic/ reliable sources about longbows piercing non steel plates at a decent range (>50 meters)?
TheAznValedictorian 2 years ago
At what range were you shooting these arrows from?
TheAznValedictorian 3 years ago
HI, the range was around 20m
Cheers
Janek
dorisijanek 3 years ago
Nice stuff there. Few questions though. On the rivetted chainmail. I see one penetration but is that an arrow just barely hanging on right next to it? Would you class that as a "resist"?
Also, what kind of metal was the chain? Stainless or iron?
And finally, what kind of head was used there? Same as the other or a bladed?
Glad to see a more objective test. Most chainmail tests against arrows are unfairly done with butted link and bodkins.
brainplay 3 years ago
Hi,
Riveted one was pierced with turkish replica arrowhead (turkish type 3), second from right on the pic with my quiver load (counter 0:40). This hanging arrow with red cordage (and shoot) was not mine, it was long bow with bodkin and shoot could be stapled as "resisted". Im not sure if chain was steel or just iron :( I was free to choose arrow I would use to kill man wearing all that stuff (and turkish was choosen) :) Interesting is lamellar I thought that I will brake teeth on.
dorisijanek 3 years ago
Of course piercing was not deadly but effect wondered even me cuz lamellas were so thick...
Arrowheads used you can find on belza iq pl
I will send you PM to my web albums where you can find more of it :)
All the best
Janek
dorisijanek 3 years ago
Warner Group FUCK OFF!!!!
Please enjoy Chopin instead...
J.
dorisijanek 3 years ago
this video was incredibly fascinating and educational. I found the lamellar's results most interesting.
Also, what is the band used as background music?
Onisaken 3 years ago
Hi, nice to hear that it was interesting for you, more stuff you will find on czambulik(.)pl. Within Temptation in the background..
Cheers
Janek
dorisijanek 3 years ago