Realistic Book of Mormon Evidences

[musicdoc007]

Hiding books is evidence for the book of Morman? Give us something more concrete. How about a couple cities from the BOM, or maybe some coinage.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

@musicdoc007

Yes it is. Not all evidences are of the same value for any book. There certainly is nothing about hiding books in antiquity that *refutes* the theme in the Book of Mormon now is there? How would a city prove anything? Would that prove Nephites lived there? Would that prove Zemnarihah was hung on a tree for treason? Would a coin prove some Nephite actually made it? If so how so?

[hammerogod]

Since there has never been any validated archaeological evidence produced on any level at any time that supports in part or in whole the contentions of Joseph Smith regarding the Americas it would be safe to question the overall veracity of the BoM ... Allow trained, non-agendized scholars to examine the Battle Site at Hill Cumorah and forever settle the issue .. Produce any irrefutable evidence and the LDS church wins big ... the very fact that has not happened and will not happen says much.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

We have produced evidence BIG time, and it's called "Journey of Faith," both the videos as well as the Book. S. Kent Brown is the editor along with Peter Johnson. We have HUGE archaeological evidences with the book "Glimpses of Lehi's Jerusalem," eds. John W. Welch, David Rolph Seely and JoAnne Seely. You are simply ignorant of it is all.

[jwnaugle]

bro's. read 1st Nephi about when they traveled down the border of the Red Sea into the arabian penninsula speaking of the land and archeology there. Its on the money. Last i checked Joseph Smith didn't have a degree on world geography

peace

[hammerogod]

By the time Joseph Smith wrote the BoM the Geography of the area surrounding the Red Sea was well known and readily avaliable... it would not have taken either Scholarship or Revelation to know everything related to the geography described in Nephi

[TheBackyardProfessor]

It absolutely was NOT well known. You PROVE that. I want sources on the Old World geography. We now have MUCH evidence for the Book of Mormon there.

[canadianbacon007]

honestly Bro, your arguments are just one big secular circle going nowhere. They have nothing to do with church doctrine, and are outdated for the most part.

[canadianbacon007]

It's spelled blasphemy, and it means to disrespect the name of diety.

[a68rebel]

I seems thebackyardprofessor is teaching information in direct contradiction to the previous Prophets and General Authorities of the church. This is a grevious matter which the church can and will call him to repentence unless he recalles his statements unless he is willing to be excommunicated for his blasphomy.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

I'd be willing to see what they say. It is never a grievious matter to gain more light and understanding on the Book of Mormon.

[canadianbacon007]

Blasphomy? Do you even know what the word means? Are you sure you aren't Catholic?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

This is a guy who is pretending to be Mormon. I have blocked his comments. It is ironic and amusing that the anti's have to resort to this blatant dishonesty, instead of just discussing and dealing with the issues. They simply can't STAND IT that the Book of Mormon has promising and powerful support.

[canadianbacon007]

Well, he was like no Mormon I ever met. I was wondering what he was doing in the church for 37 years if he felt the way he did.

[a68rebel]

Smithsonian Institution-

The Smithsonian Institution issued an official statement in 1996 and again in 1998 that it considered the Book of Mormon to be "a religious document and not a scientific guide", that it "has found no archaeological evidence to support [the book's] claims."

[a68rebel]

Mesoamarica...where are the metal swords, metal chariots, metal coins, metal arrow heads, metal armor from 500 B.C? (You know there are NONE) if you claim this is true, I can get you laughed off this site by hundereds of SERIOUS American Archeologists in the field today. Sad enough that Joseph Smith said the hill Cumorah in in New York! Are you saying that the PROPHET IS A LIAR?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Sad enough Joseph also said that the Nephite cities are in Mesoamerica. And for metal....... um, you *really* think folks who survived are going to leave all that metal just laying around? Honestly?! Where do you realistically think they all went? If YOU found a metal sword in the field would you be so utterly silly as to simply leave it alone? Think about it.

[hammerogod]

The ONLY ancient civilization not to leave vast amounts of physical evidence is the Nephites ... Period, end of discussion.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

LOL! You sure don't know much do you.....

[hammerogod]

We are not just talking Metal here ... we are talking about artifacts of any kind ... as far as an ancient civilization called the Nephites are concerned no evidence what-so-ever exists .. not in any form, not in any location .. you can make up any stories you chose but you can't change the facts .. unless, of course, you are the LDS church, which seems to be able to change facts at will and somehow get away with it .. You can't excape from the fraudulent claims of Joseph if you refuse to think.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Your insults about refusing to think are going to get you booted. We don't need your high and holier than thou attitude. You can disagree all you want to, but the personal stuff is not allowed here. Thanks for understanding.

[hammerogod]

When the truth is precieved to be insulting then you MUST examine what you believe the truth to be ... I am insulted every time I think about the LDS church's total and absolute control of the minds of young men and women who are offered only 1 viewpoint and expected to adhere to teachings that can be openly disproven by virtually any valid scholarship .. I am insutled with the concept that "Disfellowshiping" me from the comment section of a YT Vid is used to control my comments .. Get it?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

You have already been given the key to being able to post here. If it insults that there are rules, tough. When you do what it takes to post here, then you can. If you disobey the rules you get punished, get it? It *IS* control, because it is MY site. Wanna bitch and moan? Make your own. You have all the freedom to do that. Just not here.

[hammerogod]

I don't need a key to post on YT ... neither you nor the LDS church can control YT, yet ... I am posting my opinions based on the terms I agreed to when I opened an account at YT ... an open forum scares you? ... must suck to be you.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

I am in an open forum. It's called YT. I ask you respect other people here. You can disagree all you want, just not disparage people.

[hammerogod]

Addendum: It seems to be the Mormon way to deny any alternatives to what the "Prophet" said even after the "Prophet" has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to be a complete fraud ... cling to what you believe but do so with the full knowledge that it flys in the face of the facts, is supported ONLY by the statements of one man and has been proven, repeatedly, to be an elaborate myth ... ban me at your discretion but never think that it will change the facts you can't hide.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

I won't ban you if you respect others.

[hammerogod]

I am truly not Anti-Mormon, at least not on an individual basis ... what I am, in the strongest way possible, is Anti-Deception ... it is my strongest belief that Joseph Smith created a myth and due to time and circumstance that myth has gained creedence based on nothing that is tangible ... in a perfect world we would all come to know Jesus our Savior in a personal way bypassing all the man-made rites, rituals, edicts, laws, organizations etc ... for that reason I am uneasy with LDS theology.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Jesus HIMSELF performed many of the rituals. We Mormons choose to follow him in much fuller ways than others do. And you critique us for that? If you are so uneasy about Mormonism, why are you spending so much time with it? Just walk away, live your life, and enjoy yourself for crying out loud.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

I have facts that state otherwise. That you refuse to read them or understand them is not my liability. I don't have to ban you if you quit insulting people.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

If you truly are insulted every time you think about Mormonsm, then isn't it rather obvious that you ought to simply leave it alone?

[a68rebel]

OK. Many BYU archeologists have left Moromoism because SCIENCE proves Joseph Smith a fraud. You can't argue with science (but I'm sure you'll find a way)

[canadianbacon007]

I won't even dignify that bold faced assertion with an answer.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

I don't argue with science, I argue with interpretations of it. Science is a process, not a conclusion.

[a68rebel]

Exactly my point. Joseph had no Idea that real scientist would come along after him and make his claims look silly. REAL archeologists all agree on American archeology today. They have all proven, scientifically, that Joseph was a fraud. Enough said.

[canadianbacon007]

That's funny, there are alot of archeologists that are proving the exact opposite of what you just said. If you don't know that, well I'll let BYP clue you in. Enough said.

[a68rebel]

LDS Apostle James E. Talmage, in Articles of Faith, chapter 14, wrote that the Hill Cumorah is in New York.

LDS Apostle LeGrand Richards, in A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, chapter 7, stated that Cumorah is in New York.

LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, in Mormon Doctrine, under Cumorah, reported that it is in New York.

In 1990 the office of the First Presidency of the LDS Church stated that Cumorah is in New York.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

James E. Talmage, LeGrand Richards, Bruce R. McConkie.... all very fine people, but nowhere *near* the caliber of Joseph Smith himself who said the Nephite civilizations and cities were in Mesoamerica. Early LDS *interpretations* were wrong. Why is that so hard to fathom for you? Why do you quote out of date LDS folk, when the fine caliber of Neal A. Maxwell, Jeffrey R. Holland, etc. SUPPORT FARMS and the Mesoamerican interpretation?

[TrueSaintsLDS]

The Times and Seasons posted an article saying "Joseph Smith knew that the lost Nephite cities were in MESO-AMERICA."

look it up

[TheBackyardProfessor]

WHO has made Joseph Smith's claims look silly? WHICH scientists? Because I know of scientists who show Joseph Smith's claims are valid, interesting, and entirely possible. Are you simply picking and choosing? It looks to me like you are.

[a68rebel]

I thought Joseph was a PROPHET, SEER and REVELATOR? Who better to trust when locating the Hill Cumorah (Which HE dicsovered)?

[canadianbacon007]

Umm I would trust Jesus Christ not to be as obtuse as to tell his Prophet where things are that will discount faith from accepting the BofM. Make sense?

[canadianbacon007]

I doubt Joseph Smith knew all you armchair archeologists would come out of the woodwork, or he certainly would not have deduced something quite so controversial.

[TheBackyardProfessor]

The one in New York, yes. But the one where the Nephite civilization was destroyed is in Mesoamerica. You need to sorely update your knowledge good brother.

[a68rebel]

James Talmage

"The hill, which was known by one division of the ancient peoples as Cumorah, by another as Ramah, is situated near Palmyra in the State of New York ." (Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, chapter 14)

[canadianbacon007]

Let's see, God never told Joseph Smith or any other Mormon where any Nephite or Lamanite artifacts or archeological places to investigate might be. If He had told Joseph Smith, Orson Pratt, Joseph Feilding Smith or James Talmage for that matter, he may as well have left the plates for the world to see too.

[canadianbacon007]

Alot of assumptions have been made over the years, not all of them correct. Where Cummorah was, is not church doctrine, never will be. Joseph Smith was a man, as were all the others who supposed the location to be the same as where the plates were found, as a Mormon you should know that too.

[canadianbacon007]

If you want infallibility, you should check in with the pope.

[a68rebel]

Mormon Doctrine. The Book of Mormon. Mormon Prophets..........Do you really not know about Mormonism? I've been a Mormon for 38 years (why don't you know any of this information)? You can't really be that ignorant?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Well, I must be that ignorant. I have only studied this stuff for about 35 years. So far as I know the really well informed scholarship on Mormonism does not say Cumorah last battles were held in the USA, but in Mesoamerica. Stupid me I suppose.

[a68rebel]

There were no survivors in that battle. The hill cumorah in in the USA......or is the Book of Mormon mistaken about this?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

And you know this how?

[a68rebel]

Where are the swords and chariots? Where are the hundreds-of-thousands of bodies and weapons on Hill Cumorha? Very easy to PROVE....but why won't the church excavate? Very easy to make me SHUT MY MOUTH...just dig them up and make me look silly. Right?

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Do you *honestly* believe that survivors would simply let the swords lay around, and the chariots rust without putting them to their own use?! We are excavating, where the events took place, that is in Mesoamerica where the main events took place.

[CIRELUX]

How big is your back yard. It looks like you can go camping in it :) nice vid

[TheBackyardProfessor]

Oh, it's pretty much coast ta coast - GRIN!

[skyaglow]

great job!