Luke42G , Tae Kwon Do is an art not a sport. In Korean it translates to " The art of the hand and foot " Patterns simulate real people attacking but they are also for beauty. You should study theory more often :)
Hi guys, I can never understand why sine wave exists if I'm not going to use it when I spar. I understand the theory of why it's used, but if I were to use the analogy of "train like you play" from other sports, why use sine wave in patterns and not in sparring? I study in Australia, traditional non sport TKD and we don't use Sine wave at all.
@templarknight94 Nah it's continuous motion. This means you do more than complete, sine wave in one breath. A la "dan gun", this pattern also has continuous motion, in left walking stance low block, then high block
this video was made for the taekwondo encyclopedia made by the Gral Chi Hong Hi, and the instructor that performs the pattern was chosen personally by the Gral, so the bounce is normal on those movements,it is as @ozyid27 said
I'm a 2nd degree ITF instructor...Hi all! The 'bounce' you refer to stems from the fact that all techniques are performed in a downward movement. In sitting stance this comes from utilisation of 'knee spring'
Movements 6-13 are continuous and knee spring must be shown in each technique. Same as movements 24-31. This is taugt right back in basics for sitting punch...cheers
Here comes the question for a question time... Sorry I had to be the one. 1st Dan TKD with 7 years experience 6 years in the same school b4 acquirement of the rank NO SHORTCUTS. Up for second Dan next year(If I train enough of course).
About the "bounce". Let's set this in a power breaking situation. How would you be able to create more power in a technique such as a downward knife-hand strike in order to break as many boards(bricks, tiles, etc?)
I let you answer this yourselves. Sacrificing power?.. Please! If you are an ITF practitioner, hold a Dan rank and you could not answer this question, please train and practice your patterns with more diligence. Remember; don't only "do" your patterns, "live" them.
But that only works where the 'bounce' is in the same plane as the strike. On this basis a straight punch is more powerful when done with hip twist than bounce since the extra speed generated by the twist is added to the straight line speed of the fist.
not entirely, granted it is most effective on the same plane, but even used on a different plane the bounce add tiny bits of distance travelled in the same time hence you are going faster, but i agree that the hip twist is also effective
my point was more to say that those who believe the flat line punch with no body motion does not produce more power than the bounce,
essentially any motion outside the motion of the attacking tool can severely increase power
just wanted to finish with saying that obviously the mass and speed would not be so high, those were just easy numbers to work with and make it easier to demonstrate my point that the downward speed of the bounce can drastically increase your power, just clearing up the science
BTW I'm GTF 1st degree, not trying to start an argument but just wanted to say the bouncing is not exclusive to ITF
I fail to realize the reason for bouncing between each technique. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the form. It's just there really is no reason for the bouncing. Maybe it's just a difference in teaching styles. But in my school we're taught not to bounce at all, but to keep our head at the same height, even when changing stances.
Yeah, I don't think too many places teach the bouncing. It really just gives the performer the illusion that he's generating power, but really he's just destabilizing his center of gravity.
Sine wave motions containing backward and up and down-bobbing- motions are derived from the older korean martial art of taekkyon which also has wave motion. Wave motion is vastly more efficient than the simpler straight line motion.
This type of motion is also more familiar than a simple straight line motion. Most sports use a backward motion with a change in height in order to most effectively use body mass. For example baseball and most field events like
Hi 4thDan. The sine wave sacrifices power and speed... its primary purpose is to introduce an unarguably distinguishing element differentiating taekwondo from karate. Technical merits are dubious: a slight improvement on the ad-hoc hip rotation taekwondo devolved to during internationalisation, but it can't compare to the mechanics of Shotokan on which taekwondo is based. Tony
It is true that Karate is one of the foundations of Taekwon-Do. There's also an influence of Korean Taekyon and even Chinese Kung Fu. It is also true that sine wave increases power. At least it does for me and many other practicioners of Taekwon-Do. There are scientific why it does but I will spare you the details. What works best for you is the best technique for you and I have nothing bad to say about Shotokan Karate. For me sine wave just works the best. Niels 1st dan ITF Taekwon-Do
Yes sin wave does distinguish ITF I can understand why some seeing sin wave for the first couple of times it would seem as if the person was just bouncing up and down having a lot of wasteful movement, however their has been a study with itf sin wave and karate's flat line punch. Yes the sin wave is slower, and as i mean slower it was milliseconds slower, however the power was so much greater than the karate flat line punch.
Sorry, but I would need a lot of details to credit the conclusion. Who was representing the "karate flat line" punch? An ITF practitioner who didn't know it properly? Some arbitrary karate guy who didn't do it well? How were the punches' power measured? That's actually massively more difficult than it sounds, as it's a function of time that varies with resistance and the firmness of the target. Were the testers impartial, or did bias creep in? Have a link to the research documents?
Yes I totally understand, but unfortunately I was not their to see the study. However what I know is that it was not an ITF practitioner doing a karate punch. I'm sure you know that you can't run an experiment once and come to a conclusive answer, it's impossible. They needed many practitioners from both ITF and Karate to help with this study, and as of how they picked them I do not know. They measured the speed, force, and power of the different punches. If their is a link I will post it.
I have a question about sine wave, especially in this form. At the speed it is supposed to be performed, with all the bobbing up and down, doesn't that sacrifice power and balance? Also, shouldn't the hand techniques be shorter and more focused to increase efficiency?
Luke42G , Tae Kwon Do is an art not a sport. In Korean it translates to " The art of the hand and foot " Patterns simulate real people attacking but they are also for beauty. You should study theory more often :)
TheLukeMg 2 weeks ago
i learned this, aside from the bouncing......nice job
dgurl1010 4 months ago
Hi guys, I can never understand why sine wave exists if I'm not going to use it when I spar. I understand the theory of why it's used, but if I were to use the analogy of "train like you play" from other sports, why use sine wave in patterns and not in sparring? I study in Australia, traditional non sport TKD and we don't use Sine wave at all.
Luke42G 6 months ago in playlist All Black Belt Tuls 2
Sine wave is way too exaggerated
The1Mickonator 8 months ago
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templarknight94 10 months ago
@templarknight94 Nah it's continuous motion. This means you do more than complete, sine wave in one breath. A la "dan gun", this pattern also has continuous motion, in left walking stance low block, then high block
caribbeanpriceclub 10 months ago
Comment removed
templarknight94 10 months ago
LOLOLOL I love how the sped it up at the end so his voice sounds funny. dang...he must ahve been doing that slowly
thisaintyoaccounr 1 year ago
its almost like he said PWNED
spearofdestinyfanboy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
this video was made for the taekwondo encyclopedia made by the Gral Chi Hong Hi, and the instructor that performs the pattern was chosen personally by the Gral, so the bounce is normal on those movements,it is as @ozyid27 said
masterkal07 1 year ago
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masterkal07 1 year ago
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masterkal07 1 year ago
I'm a 2nd degree ITF instructor...Hi all! The 'bounce' you refer to stems from the fact that all techniques are performed in a downward movement. In sitting stance this comes from utilisation of 'knee spring'
Movements 6-13 are continuous and knee spring must be shown in each technique. Same as movements 24-31. This is taugt right back in basics for sitting punch...cheers
OZYID27 1 year ago 8
@OZYID27 Sign Wave, is the correct name.
matthewmccall78 1 year ago
@matthewmccall78 quite correct sir, apart from your spelling....it's SINE wave
OZYID27 1 year ago
@OZYID27 Ahh, I just noticed, Thank you.
matthewmccall78 1 year ago
wow. im learning this form in my ATA school, and clearly the ITF technique is completley different!!! ATA flow more....
DustyBaby1117 1 year ago
he bounces too much.
i'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do that.
skyliner927 2 years ago
@skyliner927 yeh way too many sinewaves lol
asianbroder01 1 year ago
@skyliner927 maybe he is, It would look better if he didnt.
Weapons4hire 1 year ago
Does anyone knowt he poem
" would not serve a second master though i might be crucified a hundred times"
Though I die, and die again; though I die one hundred times,
Long after my bones have turned to dust, whether my soul exists or not,
Ever loyal to my Lord, how can this one red heart of mine ever fade away?
this is the only poem i can find by Chong Mong-Chu but it never seems to be titled
i would not serve a second master...
if anyone could confirm this or correct me i would be grateful
TKDAndyC1 2 years ago
Here comes the question for a question time... Sorry I had to be the one. 1st Dan TKD with 7 years experience 6 years in the same school b4 acquirement of the rank NO SHORTCUTS. Up for second Dan next year(If I train enough of course).
About the "bounce". Let's set this in a power breaking situation. How would you be able to create more power in a technique such as a downward knife-hand strike in order to break as many boards(bricks, tiles, etc?)
TKRanger 2 years ago
I let you answer this yourselves. Sacrificing power?.. Please! If you are an ITF practitioner, hold a Dan rank and you could not answer this question, please train and practice your patterns with more diligence. Remember; don't only "do" your patterns, "live" them.
TKRanger 2 years ago
in a downward knifehand strike, lets make the assumption that your knife hand strike travels downwards at 10 m/s (hypothetically)
and assume that your torso moves down at 10 m/s(again hypothetically) essentially you double your speed
kinetic energy is half the mass x velocity squared
assumed mass of 100 kg
flat line, (0.5x100)x(10Squared)=5000J
bounce(0.5x100)x(10+10)Squared)=20,000J
so doubling you speed essentially quadrupils your power
TKDAndyC1 2 years ago
But that only works where the 'bounce' is in the same plane as the strike. On this basis a straight punch is more powerful when done with hip twist than bounce since the extra speed generated by the twist is added to the straight line speed of the fist.
cestrian12 2 years ago
not entirely, granted it is most effective on the same plane, but even used on a different plane the bounce add tiny bits of distance travelled in the same time hence you are going faster, but i agree that the hip twist is also effective
my point was more to say that those who believe the flat line punch with no body motion does not produce more power than the bounce,
essentially any motion outside the motion of the attacking tool can severely increase power
TKDAndyC1 2 years ago
sorry ran out of space,
just wanted to finish with saying that obviously the mass and speed would not be so high, those were just easy numbers to work with and make it easier to demonstrate my point that the downward speed of the bounce can drastically increase your power, just clearing up the science
BTW I'm GTF 1st degree, not trying to start an argument but just wanted to say the bouncing is not exclusive to ITF
TKDAndyC1 2 years ago
I fail to realize the reason for bouncing between each technique. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the form. It's just there really is no reason for the bouncing. Maybe it's just a difference in teaching styles. But in my school we're taught not to bounce at all, but to keep our head at the same height, even when changing stances.
brokenshadow202 2 years ago
Yeah, I don't think too many places teach the bouncing. It really just gives the performer the illusion that he's generating power, but really he's just destabilizing his center of gravity.
jeffdoeskungfu 2 years ago
you're stupid.
Revosgonewild 2 years ago
the bounce is pretty stupid at the end of a technique your meant to tense your entire body to deliver the power.
minitari 2 years ago
Just bear in mind its spelt 'sin wave' after the matmatical function
jaydean1988 2 years ago
Sine wave motions containing backward and up and down-bobbing- motions are derived from the older korean martial art of taekkyon which also has wave motion. Wave motion is vastly more efficient than the simpler straight line motion.
This type of motion is also more familiar than a simple straight line motion. Most sports use a backward motion with a change in height in order to most effectively use body mass. For example baseball and most field events like
shot put, javelin throw. Itf 1st dan
caribbeanpriceclub 2 years ago
Hi 4thDan. The sine wave sacrifices power and speed... its primary purpose is to introduce an unarguably distinguishing element differentiating taekwondo from karate. Technical merits are dubious: a slight improvement on the ad-hoc hip rotation taekwondo devolved to during internationalisation, but it can't compare to the mechanics of Shotokan on which taekwondo is based. Tony
TonesterD 3 years ago
It is true that Karate is one of the foundations of Taekwon-Do. There's also an influence of Korean Taekyon and even Chinese Kung Fu. It is also true that sine wave increases power. At least it does for me and many other practicioners of Taekwon-Do. There are scientific why it does but I will spare you the details. What works best for you is the best technique for you and I have nothing bad to say about Shotokan Karate. For me sine wave just works the best. Niels 1st dan ITF Taekwon-Do
nielsfloor 2 years ago
Yes sin wave does distinguish ITF I can understand why some seeing sin wave for the first couple of times it would seem as if the person was just bouncing up and down having a lot of wasteful movement, however their has been a study with itf sin wave and karate's flat line punch. Yes the sin wave is slower, and as i mean slower it was milliseconds slower, however the power was so much greater than the karate flat line punch.
brutussteel 2 years ago
Sorry, but I would need a lot of details to credit the conclusion. Who was representing the "karate flat line" punch? An ITF practitioner who didn't know it properly? Some arbitrary karate guy who didn't do it well? How were the punches' power measured? That's actually massively more difficult than it sounds, as it's a function of time that varies with resistance and the firmness of the target. Were the testers impartial, or did bias creep in? Have a link to the research documents?
TonesterD 2 years ago
Yes I totally understand, but unfortunately I was not their to see the study. However what I know is that it was not an ITF practitioner doing a karate punch. I'm sure you know that you can't run an experiment once and come to a conclusive answer, it's impossible. They needed many practitioners from both ITF and Karate to help with this study, and as of how they picked them I do not know. They measured the speed, force, and power of the different punches. If their is a link I will post it.
brutussteel 2 years ago
Thats because it lets you relax the body, giving it full feedom of motion without the restriction of tention.
tigershumon 2 years ago
your are supposed to tense your entire body at the end of a technique
minitari 2 years ago 2
Continuous motion is the demonstration of knowledge more than power so yes it does sacrifice power in favour of technique in this instance
I train under Mark Hutton (6th degree) and we drill this stuff all the time
I'm glad to see the pattern performed properly though, it's a pain in the ass to find it on youtube without it being performed without sine wave.
SpectralMessenger 3 years ago
I have a question about sine wave, especially in this form. At the speed it is supposed to be performed, with all the bobbing up and down, doesn't that sacrifice power and balance? Also, shouldn't the hand techniques be shorter and more focused to increase efficiency?
4thDan 3 years ago