Americans need to put a stop to these religious retards before they ruin America by turning it into a religious state, These people are no better than the Muslim fundamentalists (Taliban) in some countries that want to run the country by sharia law, it is exactly the same thing. Religious fundamentalism is a bad thing, regardless of what religion it is.
if you gonna deny evolution you mine as well deny all of science (all theories go though the same process) that means get rid of your computers, iphones, your cars, your homes (build tents) but can't use anything that science provides so just wood and mud have fun :D
ALL scientists will tell you that any theorie can be proven wrong, in fact it is one of the major reasons for why many scientists who used to be atheist start to believe in religion.
It could be proven wrong at any time since it is a THEORY.
Just like God is. Or gravity or whatever else.
Theories have become widely accepted and then refuted MANY times before.
I feel sorry for the non-believers/rationals Americans. You'll never see that in France. It's sad that you have to be a christian to be the president of the USA.
I remember seeing Ron Paul deny evolution. That fact alone completely undermined his credibility despite the fact that he is absolutely knowledgeable about economics. Kind of sad really. Why won't he just acknowledge evolution so that we can listen to him!?!? haha
None of these men have studied biology, yet they think they know better than the thousands of trained scientists spending their lives drawing their conclusions from millions of pieces of empirical evidence.
Do they think they know better than the economists and generals too?
In America's defense, none of those 3 fanatics has a chance at becoming president. Nor does Ron Paul, especially if he refuses to accept evolution as well.
Ron Paul has since come forward to say he does not believe in evolution and believes that GOD created the heavens and the earth, same as Hunter Tancredo and Huckabee. (and 83% of the American people)
Exactly. That is precisely what changed my mind about him. I used to be an avid Ron Paul supporter, and even voted for him for President way back in 1988!
Not so much that he denied evolution, but that he indicated otherwise here by NOT raising his hand, THEN turned around and denied it when speaking to a group of conservative Christians. At the very least, he flip-flopped.
It's even worse because he's an M.D. His job wouldn't exist without evolution!
why does this matter in a president? this is the worst question ever asked in a debate. i'm a firm believer in evolution but i couldnt care less whether the president believed in it, as long as he doesnt force people to accept the beliefs he has. i'm sure most republicans want vouchers, so people can choose which schools they want to attend and choose what they want to learn. a terribly inappropriate question.
most people esp with religious backgrounds, unless they were rigorously taught evolution, don't believe in it. i teach evolution in a hs biology class and a lot of students don't believe in it and think it's ridiculous to think we evolved from an ape-like creature. common sense to you isn't common sense to everyone. it doesn't matter whether a president believes in creationism nor evolution, as long as he doesn't force people to believe in the same.
they're still completley and utterly moronic and I think its sad and pathetic that in this day and age people still resort to believing in magical beings. Not to mention some of these people are running the country...now THAT just pisses me off.
so just cuz mccain believe in it, he's a lot smarter than the rest? belief in evolution is not a test of how smart you are. it usually shows how religious you are. religious people can be very smart.
why dont you answer my question? so you think mccain is a lot smarter than all the other candidates because he believes in evolution? even though he flip flops and struggles to answer questions and even admits to not knowing much about the economy?
I think Mccain is smarter for saying he believes in evolution(it'll get him votes and give him some good feedback for not being moronic, obviously he's doing it so that he doesn't look like an idiot. I still think he's a bit of an idiot, but saying he believed in evolution was a wise move. why do you keep trying to start an argument? Obviously it matters to people what their presidential candidate believes in even if it isn't right, that's just the way things are.
why am i trying to start an argument? i said my view and you argued differently. there already is an argument. i don't think it matters whether a president believes in evolution as long as he believes in the constitution. it doesnt affect me or you if a president believes in evolution as long as he upholds the constitution. and that's the problem today with our president and congress. they don't uphold the constitution and it's created all our problems today.
And that's why people who don't believe in evolution and science should not be in office, because they cant manage to separate their idiotic beliefs from what should be done. That's a very idealistic viewpoint you have but lets be honest, Americans care about what their presidential candidate believes in. If they believe in nonsense then they look like morons. Not believing in evolution is nonsensical by the standards of most Americans. saying he doesn't would've been harmful to his campaign.
so if you dont believe in evolution that means you'll believe in a lot less nonsense? mccain believes in lots of nonsense about the govt's role in our lives. the two are not connected.
but to our country it doesn't matter, they want to vote for someone they can relate to. If Mccain says he's a "devote christian" and believes in "evoltion" as well-2 completely contradictory beliefs-then this sits well with Americans. He's "just like the "average American." That's why its a wise choice for him to say that and that's what I meant, I really don't care what he thinks. Most Americans blindly follow religious bull yet believe in science as well.
now youre saying that belief in evolution and belief in the constitution aren't connected but to other people it doesn't matter. the argument wasn't the perception of people in our country. the argument was whether or not it really mattered as a qualification for the president to believe in evolution. it is not, and we have now come to this conclusion.
Of course I will that's a horrible way to raise a child! Teaching them false information! Denying the truth, that's child abuse imo, pure child abuse. It creates hatred towards others, division, ignorance and not even curiosity to learn about the world around them. A child growing up around substance abuse has a better chance at succeeding in the world, at east they have a goddamn mind of their own!
No not really, I know plenty of people who do and guess what they understand reality.
I consider a person who understands reality a much more functional human being than someone who denies truthful scientific evidence.
We live in the 21st Century, we know how the earth was created now, grow up. giant reptiles and man cant exist together, men don't live inside fucking whales, adam and eve are fictional story characters and you're going to die one day forever, fucking grow up and deal with it.
@Sshelly34213 Did you know for many years atheists and evolutionist said that Ponchius Pilate never existed, and he was just part of this so called fairy tale book called " The Bible ". Guess what? Since then they have unearthed a statue with the inscription Pilate and unearthed coins which feature the name of Ponchius Pilate. So, you acting like evolution is a fact just makes you look silly.....
@TheGreekMan1981 Epic Failure. Evolution and Pontius Pilate are unrelated to each other, there is no correlation between the two. I never called the bible "fairy tales," but they are myths and folk tales.
A lot of myths involve actual historical figures/moments in their stories; thus is the purpose of folk tales like myths. Otherwise they wouldn't be FOLK, they'd just be stories. The point is that exaggerate the truth, otherwise they wouldn't be folk tales.
@TheGreekMan1981 To prove that a character in a story actually existed is one thing, to further prove that because they really existed=the story is literally true is another. The two points are not correlated, it does not matter if pilate existed or not. It doesn't mean anything, it could just be a folk tale. To go even further and falsify the theory of evolution based on this, is just out of this planet irrelevant. What kind of strange logic are you using?
@TheGreekMan1981 There are stories based on a man named Robin Hood interacting with famous historical people, like King Richard. Did this ever happen? Probably not...but that's kind of the point of folk tales. They are larger than life.
There is no literal proof that Jesus Christ even existed, regardless of whether there were records of a man named Jesus. Even further there is no proof that the story of Pilate and Jesus ever happened, thus is the nature of a folk tale.
@TheGreekMan1981 There are stories based on a man named Robin Hood interacting with famous historical people, like King Richard. Did this ever happen? Probably not...but that's kind of the point of folk tales. They are larger than life.
There is no literal proof that Jesus Christ even existed, regardless of whether there were records of a man named Jesus. Even further there is no proof that the story of Pilate and Jesus ever happened, thus is the nature of a folk tale.
@TheGreekMan1981 When I attended Catholic school (to which I was taught the theory of evolution-in your face creationist) I was taught that belief in God and Jesus were simply a leap of faith. You took the leap and this leap was what made Christianity noble. You did not question anything, you wholly believed in the power of God and Jesus Christ. The idea of a creationist trying to use bogus pseudo science to "prove" evolution wrong and genesis correct is actually immoral from a Catholic view.
@Sshelly34213 Believing in God isn't a leap of faith....I see God everywhere I look. I do not need a candle to see the sun. Evolution is garbage and that is my thought on that. You think what you want. In the end you have more to lose if you are wrong. If I am wrong, well, then I won't be alive to regret it. Even so, I would regret living my life the way Jesus instructed. Enough said.
@TheGreekMan1981 That absolutely depends on what you believe in and what you're taught! What your denomination teaches you. I already said that in Catholic school, the Catholic nuns and teachers all taught me that belief in God and Jesus was an absolute leap of faith. How dare you tell other people what they believe and don't believe?
So it's a game? It's about winning and losing? You want to win and want me to lose? Very interesting perspective. It's about winning and coming out on top for you
@TheGreekMan1981 For me it's about what is simply logically truthful. Evolution has literal evidence, fossils dating back millions of years recording the progress of the evolution of life on planet earth. To not accept a fact seems strange to me. What those fossils are fake? They don't exist? (even though you can see a lot of them on display in museums all across the world.)
The difference between you and I has nothing to do with faith, it has to do with acceptance of reality.
@TheGreekMan1981 I firmly don't believe you understood my initial point, take out the evolution argument and just look at this from a CHRISTIAN and religious perspective. Even from that perspective Catholics-one of the largest, most powerful, and followed denominations-sees creationism as absolutely immoral. So even from a Christian perspective most Christians see creationism as, not just false, but immoral.
@Sshelly34213 I don't CARE, what Catholics believe!!!! I don't care what anyone believes. I care what the Bible says and I take as FULL TRUTH. You believe what you want, and I'll stick to what I know is truth. Thanks and have a good day
@TheGreekMan1981 Nevertheless, you're STILL not comprehending my point. Christianity is a LEAP OF FAITH. It is not to be proven with fact, it IS to be BELIEVED. This is literally written in the bible.
Lol, science is not a belief system, it exists whether you want to believe in it or not. It doesn't really care if you deny it, it doesn't make science less true because some book talked about creating people out of mud and clay.
@TheGreekMan1981 The concept of the leap of faith, imo, is the sole basis of Christianity. To not understand this is to NOT be a Christian. It's why people were persecuted in Rome, it's what made them martyrs. So I absolutely FAIL to understand how someone could possibly call themselves a Christian without, not only comprehending, but actually agreeing with the Leap of Faith concept.
You're not a Christian, I really don't know what you are.
@TheGreekMan1981 The whole point of Christianity is that it DEFIES reality in every single way. Do you see men walk on water? Or float upward toward the sky ever? Fuck no. That's defying reality. Man cannot fly or stand on water, that is just how reality works. This is something you commonly accept, if someone did do any of these things, you'd call it a miracle. So to say that the "bible" is the truth" is just false. It's not the truth, it's all a bunch of miracles that defy reality.
@TheGreekMan1981 Finally, THIS is where the Leap of Faith concept comes into play. Because the events of the bible defy reality in every possibly way, you take a leap of faith and BELIEVE them anyway. Because that's what Christianity consists of. Which is why I fail to see how accepting evolution has anything to do with Christianity in the slightest. You're defying reality anyway by believe the events of the bible actually happened. So why is evolution given some special attention.
@TheGreekMan1981 Why is evolution given some type of special attention that man's inability to float or being unable to walk over water isn't?
I fail to understand why evolution is such a concern for people like yourself, when other things mentioned in the bible that realistically can't happen (miracles) are not a concern for you?
@Sshelly34213 Why in the world would miracles be a concern for me. I serve a God who is all powerful, and is outside of our realm of total understanding. I don't even claim to totally understand what God is capable of, but miracles is one thing I know he is capable of. Like I said earlier, you are free to believe what you wish but in that same token other people are going to disagree with you. That is just the way it is. Take care!
@TheGreekMan1981 Because as I said before, everything in the bible is a miracle. So why wouldn't that be a concern for you? You place your entire belief in miracles. That's the point I'm trying to make, one of which you continually dismiss. The Leap of Faith is based on your ability to defy reality and believe in miracles. So why is evolution something you feel a need to totally dismiss, considering that you don't have any concern with the many other impossible things that are in the bible?
@Sshelly34213 Also evolution is not a fact. If you accept it, then you are simply putting your faith in it. That certainly doesn't mean that it is a fact. At any rate, you can talk down to us as much as you want....We don't let silly things like that bother us. We know the truth and we are free.
@TheGreekMan1981 Because as I said before, everything in the bible is a miracle. So why wouldn't that be a concern for you? You place your entire belief in miracles. That's the point I'm trying to make, one of which you continually dismiss. The Leap of Faith is based on your ability to defy reality and believe in miracles. So why is evolution something you feel a need to totally dismiss, considering that you don't have any concern with the many other impossible things that are in the bible?
@TheGreekMan1981 Evolution is not a belief system, categorizing it as such is just false. So please stop incorrectly categorizing the theory of evolution.
@Sshelly34213 It certainly is a belief system. If what "evolutionist" believe is true then when are just products of blind chance and are slaves to chemical reactions. If you and everyone else is just a slave to chemical reactions, how can we be certain that the logic " that we think we have " is only logical because we assume it is. I know that God created us perfectly and logical thinking is being able to see God in everything. You have your right to believe...so go ahead.
@TheGreekMan1981 How does any of what you said make evolution wrong? It just makes it sound unappealing to you. Objective fact does not care if you don't like it or not.
Again, evolution is not a belief system it is a theory. Even if you don't like it or agree with it, that doesn't give you the right to lie about it.
@TheGreekMan1981 Excuse me but you ARE in fact lying. Can you even define the words evolution and religion by their textbook dictionary definition? Have you ever even seen it before?
Either you're lying, or you're completely ignorant and blatantly refuse to listen to the truth. I really can't help you with the latter, I'm just telling you what is and isn't true. Don't shoot the messenger. Go look up the definition of the words religion and evolution and tell me how they are anything alike.
@TheGreekMan1981 I can't have a debate or even an argument with someone who can't comprehend facts. So either you bring some evidence to this argument or I'm not going to continue this discussion. It's like talking a brick wall.
@TheGreekMan1981 And it has nothing to do with being a goddamn atheist, the Catholic church accepts evolution as fact. There are plenty of Christian denominations that do so.
@RespectShmaa By the way I fail to see how "Evolution is just garbage!" is a proper rebuttal. Can you prove that the massive amounts of evidence collected over centuries by scientists recording the progress of life on planet earth for millions of years is 1. false, 2. does not conclude that evolution is the most plausible theory, 3. do not exist.
If not then I don't really couldn't care less about your opinion, you have no credentials to make me take your opinion seriously. It's just hot air.
Hey, Sshelly, that was harsh! We NEED to teach Creationism in American public schools! How ELSE are the poor, poor children of India and China, etc. going to continue to beat the pants off of ours in scientific and technical fields?
Simply put it's "descent with modification".This definition encompasses small-scale evolution(changes in gene frequency in a population from one generation to the next)& large-scale evolution(the descent of different species from a common ancestor over many generations).Saying u're not sure how or when "god" created life is moronic when we have fossilized Prokaryotes(our common ancestor)that we know for a fact were laid down 3.5 billion years ago: wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
homantim: Also, the speed of light has been measured since at least the 1700'ds and as time went on it and more accurate instruments became available it became closer to the actual number. Even today with light measured to 10 or 20 decimal points there is still a margin of error, but the basic idea that it is approximately 3.0 x 10^8 m/sec has not changed. By your reasoning I could say that th e speed of light is 60 mph because they don't have a margin of error?
Kluge00, you seem smart. Where did your light come from? If you are going to say the stars, or the sun, where did they come from? If you are going to say a big bang, where did that come from? What made the big bang? Where did the space where the big bang happened come from. If the big bang happened billions of years ago, what made time? Oh and if you can answer the first space / time question. Where did the matter come from? C'mon science!!! Give me an answer. Thanks God!! you already did.
The point was that your argument that because science could only date the earth to +/- 50 Million years it made your claim that the earth was only 10,000 years old just as valid. Well it does not. Perhaps God did start the universe with the big bang and perhaps science will prove that out, but your complete denial of science puts you on the same road as past christians who threw Galileo in jail for saying that the earth revolves around the sun.
homantim : Using your reasoning I will state the following, the Bible says that the Sun revolves around the earth and that the Earth is at the center of the universe. Using your reasoning, since that has been proven false then everything in the Bible is false....
Whoa, kluge00 you just lost me. I asked you a series of questions and you ignore them and just flat out tell me the whole bible is false because YOU SAY the bible says the earth is flat. The old bait and switch. I won't even bother arguing with you any further if you can tell me what created space, time, and matter. They all started somewhere. It all comes down to that. You can sweat the details once you know the basics. Do you trust Science who has nothing to offer you. Or God, who loves you.
homantim: I didn't answer you questions because they were an assinine response to my explanation of how science works. Getting back to the original topic, Religion has no place in government. Since government represents all people and has to make decisions based on fact we must use provable facts and events to guide our decisions, since Religion relies on a supernatural explanation for all events and cannot be proven or disproved it should not be the basis of our decisions.
Our country was founded on Freedom of Religion, NOT freedom from. Our government and our faith have always been intertwined. Why do you think even the Democrats try to identify with Christians. They may not actually believe, but they sure do like to pretend. If you can prove beyond a doubt that God did not create everything you see today, and science has the answers, just answer my question. Everything else is meaningless. Where did everything come from. Science has no fact on that.
Homantim: Do you really think Jesus would be a Republican? Big Business, Money hungry, the poor be damned, screw the environment? The founding fathers of this country were NOT christians, they were Deists and did not believe that Jesus was the son of god. They wanted strict separation of church and state because they saw how religion had such a controlling interest in England.
How do I respond to bias? I have a feeling Jesus was bi-partisan. I also know he didn't promote killing babies or homosexuality. Read the Bible if you want to talk about Jesus. He was a lot more fire and brimstone than you think. Don't you think if Jesus wanted to solve poverty or fix the environment he would have? He concentrated on dying for our sins and making sure people knew he was the Son of God. As far as your bias is concerned, I am not money hungry, I help the poor, and recycle.
According to the Bible, God said 'blood is life and without blood there is no life' since blood does not flow in a fetus until the 40th day then according to god it is not alive until then, but getting beyond that there is no evidence that 'life' begins at conception. As far as homosexuality goes, you are just preaching hate because they have no choice in the matter.
You always seem to mention bias, yet blindly ignore your own. I am not biased, I am not for or against anybodies right to worship as they please. Where I draw the line is someone attempting to inject their narrow interpretation of the world onto me and insist that they know what is best for me despite every aspect of evidence they put forth having been proved wrong.
As am I against you injecting your narrow minded view on me even when you are wrong. What created space, time, matter? You are obviously very stubbornly rooted in your religion of evolution. Perhaps someday you will change your mind. Until then, keep in mind God created this existence. You are accountable to Him. He is infinite and you are not. You are sinful and require a Saviour, his name is Jesus. Someday when all else fails you, he will be there. Question is will you accept him?
How am I injecting anything on you? If abortion is legal then you are free to decline to get one if you so believe. Same with stem cells, if it results in a cure for a disease like Alzheimer's, diabetes or heart disease you are free to not accept that treatment. While under your plan, everyone would have to live according to your beliefs and we would not be free to choose.
You have injected your views on me by pressing the abortion issue until a supreme court decided to make abortion legal. It was illegal. As a former fetus, I am pro-life. I don't understand how people like you who can't ever close their mouths, are for silencing so many mouths...and lives.
kluge you probably complain about the Iraq war deaths?
Did you know that Abortion kills over 3200 Americans per day, and 1.2 million per year. A child is killed by abortion every 22 seconds in America. Over 45 million Americans have lost their lives to abortion since 1973. 50 million babies are killed worldwide every year.
I am a reservist so don't even go there about Iraq and how Jesus told GWB that there would be no casualties. As for abortion, unfortunately there are times when it is necessary, the christians want to end abortion yet never address what is to be done with babies born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome or from crack mothers or are profoundly retarded. How many have you adopted? You can talk the talk but you can't walk the walk.
You keep wanting me to respond to "What created space, time, etc." yet you have yet to respond to any of the questions I have posed to you.
I think you are in for a rude awakening when you die, and Jerry Falwell is in a very hot place right now. Show me some proof that this man named Jesus ever even existed.
The phrase "separation of church and state" that you are referring too, is not found in the Constitution or Bill of Rights contrary to leftist opinion. If you are referring to the first Amendment, it was meant to keep religion a freedom. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.". Funny how the left loves the first amendment when it comes to free speech, but hates Christianity and tries to prohibit the free exercise thereof.
Fortunately the people who wrote the constitution were very well read and wrote volumes about what they meant and absolute separation of church and state was what they had in mind. The supreme court has upheld this opinion many times. Huckabee said that most of the founding fathers were ministers, of the 53 signers of the constitution 1 was a minister.
The right to a fair trial is not implicitly spelled out in the constitution, do you also infer that we are not entitled to one? I know GWB feels that way.
You also say that Democrats are non religious simply because they do not think the same way as you, how very self righteous of you. Perhaps Democrats feel that abortion is a very hard and personal decision and the government should stay out of individuals lives and let them make their own decisions based on their own circumstances/beliefs
Kluge00, I just wanted to let you know on a personal note that I know where you are coming from. I used to believe science had all the answers. I believed everything they said. I would argue with everyone just like you. I just slowly came to the realization that science can't answer everything. Noone is forcing religion on you, just merely asking you to think for yourself. I am not against science. You can believe your theories, or trust in God. You may be only 37 now, but someday life will end.
Napoleon was thought to have been murdered while in prison by the English. Recent test indicate he died of natural causes. It turns out he was full of arsenic, but so were most people in those days, as the dyes in the clothing they wore were full of it- much like the knowledge we claim to have today. Todays invention, discovery, or cure is tomorrow's lead paint, pluto, and labotomy. We think we are pretty smart, but we still have so much to learn.
Actually, we don't know my age. We would have to look at evidence (birth certificate) and then choose to accept these facts to determine my age. Same with anything we know.
The fact that you (or Huckabee) chooses not to accept overwhelming evidence (facts) on this topic is exactly the reason I wouldn't want him (or you) as president.
Convincing you is pointless. You are falling back on strawman arguements and making a concious decision not to look at facts (Hubble, CBR, tree rings, etc.)
Terrifying. Galileo rolls over in his grave. One might have thought humanity would have moved passed this stubbornness to accept scientific facts by now.
Scary. These guys want to control multi-trillion dollar budgets for NASA, CDC, AIDs research, fusion technologies, defend the US against future bio-weapons, national health care, etc. and they don't believe in evolution and Huckabee's case doesn't know how old the universe is? Forget radio-active dating, forget anti-biotics, forget Hubble pictures of things billions of years old, etc.?
If you can't realize the difference between being off by 5% and 10000% then you need help.
Hubble, comic background radiation, stellar theory, etc. put the universe at 13.7 billion years. Hucklebee's say it's 10000. One is clearly closer to the truth.
Would you trust someone who guessed the national debt at $9 million just because someone else can't get it to the exact dollar? Why then allow someone to spend trillions on heathcare and science when they guess 10,000 instead of 13.7 billion?
The "science" of the earth being 13.7 billion years old is not fact. Facts don't change. The age of the earth has changed multiple times. BW022, you are a certain age and get older at a certain rate. If you are now 30, in 2 years you will be 32, not 3,295. Let's say, according to science, new findings show you are 3,295. It's true (to you) because you believe anything the scientists say. Science changes all the time. Apparently so do you. Huckabee doesn't have all the answers. God does
Second, science has never said that I am 3,295, so that is a stawman.
Third, acceptance is not based on claims, but the facts backing up to those claims. Hubble red-shift, ice core, tree rings, CBR measurements, the speed of light, etc. are facts.
We expect a president to make decisions with a lot less facts than those backing up a 13.7B universe. You think any other decision will have $9B worth of Hubble data backing it up?
First you and scientists do not know that. The age AGAIN has been changed repeatedly with a margin of error now of 50 MILLION YEARS!!!!!
Second We know you are a certain age, we do not guess as we do with the age of the earth.
Third The claims of the age of the earth are guesses. Not fact.
You are not convincing me of much other than you claim science answers everything. Where did the universe come from? Nothing? Matter? Where did that come from? Matter cannot be created/destroyed? Then what?
homantim: I thinkthe problem is that you do not understand how science works. You start with a theory and then you put it out for pier review and devise experiments to test your theory and as new techniques and more accurate instruments/experiments are devised you adjust the theory to reflect the knowlege that was gained. So, the original theory said the earth was X years old, as more information is obtained the margin of error is adjusted accordingly.
Also known as circular reasoning. Carbon data tests are calibrated on subjective estimates. Science is full of bias.
I love science, as it fascinates me. I love to do quantitative and qualitative research. I know better than to bet my soul on the results, as it is only science, and it is ever changing.
First you and scientists do not know that. The age AGAIN has been changed repeatedly with a margin of error now of 50 MILLION YEARS!!!!!
Second We know you are a certain age, we do not guess as we do with the age of the earth.
Third The claims of the age of the earth are guesses. Not fact.
You are not convincing me of much other than you claim science answers everything. Where did the universe come from? Nothing? Matter? Where did that come from? Matter cannot be created/destroyed? Then what?
As George Michael says, YOU GOTTA HAVE FAITH. Evolution does away with faith and explains it all away. It's anyone's right to believe however they want. And I believe Huckabee is a Religious Right Wing Republican Bigot who hunts for attention and deep down in his heart knows being gay is not a choice. He just likes money and power too much to admit it.
wanna know why republicans are good for science? they dont wanna die poor and science brings home the bacon! plus our military would be trash without cutting edge communications, avianics, radar, energy/propulsion, etc.
To hold the view that science & religion are compatible (which I once held & many Americans hold) is to show only a partial understanding of how science works. Take miracles:
Miracles (by definition) are the temporary suspension of natural laws (e.g. levitation). The only way to reconcile science & religion is to fall into the argument from ignorance fallacy i.e. to say that we just don't know how something works and until we do it must have been god.
How is it possible that three educated persons could obliterate a vast amount of scientific evidence that has been proven to be a rational and coherent theory? I can not even fathom voting for someone who is blind to plain facts and reality in order to validate some subjective belief. If a candidate can deny these facts in favor of a misplaced religious conviction, what other facts is that candidate capable of doubting?
Governor Huckabee does not believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. People who believe in creation cannot be lumped into one group of people who believe the Earth is 6000 years old. It is possible to believe that a god created an ever changing universe and also believe in evolution.
Either you believe in science or you believe in creationism, which crumbles under the scientific method. I have absolutely no respect for people that do both.
The scientific method, used in all of science, is the method that gave us the technology we have today. By the same scientific method, we conclude that evolution is happening. To believe in creationism is saying you don't value the scientific method. If this is true, then ditch your cancer treatments, microwave, phone, car etc. You can't have it both ways.
Help me out here JWWells. This is the only question out of the ridiculous amount of questions we have asked that you avoid. You are super smart, yet the easy questions you avoid. Please- give this one your best try- what happens when people die?
From this quote by Swinburne, I assume you believe nothing happens when you die? Surely a person as intelligent as you has pondered the thought of the afterlife? It would seem the first problem to tackle in life.
As a child, I dreamt of heaven and hell. I also dreamt of talking plants and all manner of nonsense - I was an imaginative child. As a teenager, I spent late nights considering the problems of time, existence, and death. I considered religion as a potential answer, but my readings left me suspicious, and I became an agnostic. As a college student, careful consideration left me more and more convinced that the most rational stance was disbelief.
Great info! I appreciate you sharing. We are not as different as one would think. College did teach me about the synthesis of knowledge. Overexposure to many theories produced doubt in me too. It is interesting to study all of the possibilities.
So, if maybe there was a heaven and a hell, what would be the reason for going to either one? I'm sure that crossed your mind. You are far to intelligent to not think about what it would take to get there.
That depends. Are we talking about the Heaven and Hell of the Muslims or the Christians? Which Christians - those who believe in salvation by faith alone or those who believe in salvation by good works? Or possibly we mean the Elysium and Tartarus of the Greeks? The ghastly many Hells posited by some Buddhist sects?
I do not pretend to be an expert on religion; I really couldn't tell you all of the rules.
Yes; as a child, I stole small objects from my sister. How is this relevant to evolution, or even to God? It only proves that people are morally imperfect.
Yes; are you of the impression that I am either an angel or a robot? I didn't spot wings or screws the last time I looked in the mirror, so that's probably not true. Of course, I could just be programmed not to notice.
This will probably take several messages to post- I apologize!
You are correct- we are all human- capable of error- not one perfect human around! The Bible supports this: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
What is sin? It is written: "...I had not known sin, but by the law." (Romans 7:7)
We have already looked at three if the Ten Commandments: Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not steal, and Thou shalt not commit adultery. Jesus said in Matthew 5:28 that "...whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart."
So of the three commandments we looked at, you have confessed to be guilty on all three counts. You are not alone! "There is none good but one, that is, God." Matthew 19:17
In Galatians 5:10 it is written "...we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." Our sin leaves us condemned, "for the wages of sin is death." (Romans 6:23) The law leaves us broken, in desparate need of a savior.
Paul said in Galatians 3:24: "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."
Jesus became a curse for us, taking the punishment we earned upon the cross at Calvary. He was a perfect, sinless man- "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2Cor. 5:21)
He was beaten and marred more than any man, (Isaiah 52:14) suffered, died, and was buried. He rose again in fullfillment of the scriptures, and will come again to judge the living and the dead.
Does it concern you that you will be guilty before God? It definitely concerned me!!! I trembled and wept before Him, repented of my ways, and begged for His mercy and grace. I asked Him to come into my heart and change me, make me knew, and save me from sin and death. Even though I was guilty and didn't deserve it, He made me new, and I am forever changed- no longer a slave to sin.
God doesn't want anyone to perish- not one person! "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) He offers His only begotten Son to intercede for us, so that we may have eternal life, and be with Him forever. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9)
"...except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Luke 3:13)
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Romans 3:19)
The law of gravity- we can say we don't believe it, but if you and I were on a jet, and the pilot discovered a problem that will cause the jet to crash, it wouldn't matter if you believed in the law of gravity, because the reults would be the same. When the jete crashes from 30,000 feet, we will all surely die, and be ground to powder. But wait- there is good news!
The flight attendant says we have parachutes and can choose to jump to safety when we reach the right altitude. You could say, "No thanks, I don't believe in the law of gravity, I'll be just fine." You are too intelligent to say that!
So as you see people placing the parachutes on, you begin to wonder, could it be true?
You then make the choice to accept the parachute, and put it on. You jump to safety and are saved. Similarly, we must "...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh." (Romans 13:14)
"And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy." (Romans 13:11-13)
"But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." (Romans 13:14) I pray that you will do this, and put on the Lord Jesus Christ; repent and be transformed- believe in Him and accept His saving grace- as your life is precious in His sight!
istherenotacause -- that seemed to be a lot like an attempted witnessing. Here is a factoid for you. Your religion will continue to exist for many years to come. I propose that the reason for this is nothing to do god, jesus or any truths your religion claims to have. The reason is twofold -- indoctrination and witnessing.
Do you not find it strange that your religion cannot continue to exist based on its 'truths' alone?
Religion is nothing. Jesus is all I need. I wish you knew of the peace I have. The love I experience. I can't explain it. Even if the theory of evolution could some how be proven, I would still believe in what I know is real.
I live in the realm of experience. I used to think like you do. I used to believe all of the things I was taught in school. Some are great things, but most of it changes every few years, as we learn more about what we have so little of- knowledge of this world!
I will not force you to believe anything- it will always be your choice to believe in what you believe. Millions would die for their faith in Christ Jesus today. Would you give your life for the theory of evolution? Have you experienced its truth? Have you invested the same amount of time researching the Gospel as you have evolution? Again, it is your choice- but take a look at both sides before you are completely sold...
"Millions would die for their faith in Christ Jesus today. Would you give your life for the theory of evolution?"
This, in a nutshell, sums up everything that is wrong with having such a faith. If new evidence came to light that showed evolution to be wrong then I would abandon it. To my mind it is fundamentally flawed to hold a belief that you are unwilling to question. If you are unwilling to question it then is it really belief? And for the record I have read he gospels.
To the contrary, I have questioned Christianity for the first 35 years of my life. It was when I layed down my pride and knew I couldn't save myself from sin and death that the Gospels made sense.
You have a conscience of what is right and wrong- God gave that to you. I read the Bible from end to end 6 or 7 times as a non-believer. Like you, I found it interesting, yet contradictory to the pleasures of the lifestyle I enjoyed. So I decided that some of it was good reading, except for the parts that disturbed and awakened my conscience.
After 35 years, I began to seek the truth, and cried out to God to show me why I couldn't find peace. God revealed to me His Law- the Ten Commandments. He showed me my sin- I was a lying, thieving, coveting, adulterer at heart- separated from Him.
I felt the separation from Him, and knew by His word the wages of my sins were eternal death. I cried out to Jesus to save me, and He is and will always be the Lord of my life. He took my punishment upon the cross at Calvary, and took all my sin.
He was sinless, and came to take away the sins of the world. He died and rose again on the third day. His life, death, and resurrection were all foretold in prophecies throughout the Bible. All of this for me and you, so that we might live. We have a choice to make- what will we put our gift of faith in? Man and his finite wisdom? Or Jesus- who is our redeemer, our creator, and our Lord!
"We have a choice to make- what will we put our gift of faith in? Man and his finite wisdom? Or Jesus- who is our redeemer, our creator, and our Lord!" Ignoring the hypocritical false dichotomy of your comments, I would never choose jesus. If I cannot be prepared to accept responsibility for my own actions then I cannot accept redemption. I won't live my life in fear to the god portrayed in the bible -- a vengeful god undeserving of worship.
I can only be accountable for the free choices I make in my life. Any choice I make, whether impetuous, loving, vengeful or divinely inspired, that is made without reason is not a free choice. And that reason shouts at me that any perceived truths that are beyond scrutiny are also beyond recognition and respect. If I go to hell than that is a choice I made a long time ago and with a clear conscience. You may accuse me of pride -- I call it being unable to lie to myself.
I haven't accused you of anything. I was only sharing my testimony. I overcame my pride three years ago. I used to think I knew the truth, and couldn't lie to myself. Your truths cannot save me, so you do not share evolution as your savior, just as your understanding of truth. The gift that was freely given to me saved me, and can also save you. That is why I share it- not to condemn you, but for His grace to save you.
If someone took all of your belongings, and your identity, and then ruined your credit, what kind of judge would you like to have at the hearing after his arrest? What if before he did that to you he had also raped innocent children? And killed people while they tried to arrest him? Would you and the rest of the world want a good judge or a corrupt judge?
Ignoring your completely irrelevant straw man red herring analogy about the judge, you said this "you do not share evolution as your savior, just as your understanding of truth." I cannot comprehend why you think the concept of being saved is even remotely connected with evolution. This smacks of your religious insecurity manifesting itself in an irrational (assuming you have done research) dismissal of evolution and the evidence associated with it.
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Americans need to put a stop to these religious retards before they ruin America by turning it into a religious state, These people are no better than the Muslim fundamentalists (Taliban) in some countries that want to run the country by sharia law, it is exactly the same thing. Religious fundamentalism is a bad thing, regardless of what religion it is.
ACCSESS247 3 months ago
if you gonna deny evolution you mine as well deny all of science (all theories go though the same process) that means get rid of your computers, iphones, your cars, your homes (build tents) but can't use anything that science provides so just wood and mud have fun :D
onetime233 4 months ago
@onetime233 Love it.
gushalle 1 month ago
NO AUDIO
globalchaos1984 6 months ago
It is a THEORY. Ok ?
ALL scientists will tell you that any theorie can be proven wrong, in fact it is one of the major reasons for why many scientists who used to be atheist start to believe in religion.
It could be proven wrong at any time since it is a THEORY.
Just like God is. Or gravity or whatever else.
Theories have become widely accepted and then refuted MANY times before.
ToxinalX 7 months ago
I feel sorry for the non-believers/rationals Americans. You'll never see that in France. It's sad that you have to be a christian to be the president of the USA.
KurtTDG 8 months ago
can't hurr anything.
leoellion 10 months ago
Fuck stupid people
shandcunt 1 year ago
...can't hear a damn thing...
cr4yv3n 1 year ago 2
I remember seeing Ron Paul deny evolution. That fact alone completely undermined his credibility despite the fact that he is absolutely knowledgeable about economics. Kind of sad really. Why won't he just acknowledge evolution so that we can listen to him!?!? haha
jojomcbean 1 year ago
No wonder the United States is going downhill. You can't democratically choose what you'd like the truth to be, just because it's comforting.
moekelok 2 years ago 7
only in america
crck4488 2 years ago
*raises hand*
ZackTheProtestant 2 years ago
None of these men have studied biology, yet they think they know better than the thousands of trained scientists spending their lives drawing their conclusions from millions of pieces of empirical evidence.
Do they think they know better than the economists and generals too?
RexFordVII 2 years ago 4
In America's defense, none of those 3 fanatics has a chance at becoming president. Nor does Ron Paul, especially if he refuses to accept evolution as well.
deathbotv1 2 years ago 3
why no volume?
pimezon 2 years ago
*raises hand*
ineternitypast 2 years ago
Ron Paul has since come forward to say he does not believe in evolution and believes that GOD created the heavens and the earth, same as Hunter Tancredo and Huckabee. (and 83% of the American people)
nrobyar 2 years ago
Which is why I don't really like Ron Paul that much anymore.
RussianAssassin21 2 years ago
Exactly. That is precisely what changed my mind about him. I used to be an avid Ron Paul supporter, and even voted for him for President way back in 1988!
Not so much that he denied evolution, but that he indicated otherwise here by NOT raising his hand, THEN turned around and denied it when speaking to a group of conservative Christians. At the very least, he flip-flopped.
It's even worse because he's an M.D. His job wouldn't exist without evolution!
COMALiteJ 2 years ago
I dont know why you are surprised our nation has been run by people that believe in God for the past 200 years
etothedtotheward 3 years ago
can someone tell who the three are???
i know tancredo and the huck put up their hands....
Who is the third one (the one at the far end)...looks like Duncan Hunter
12oink12 3 years ago
sam brownback
infidelissimo 3 years ago
Ron Paul, Mike Huckabee...
Caveman135 3 years ago
wise answer Mccain, lol what bunch of morons I cant believe these people are allowed to be in the government.
Sshelly34213 3 years ago
why does this matter in a president? this is the worst question ever asked in a debate. i'm a firm believer in evolution but i couldnt care less whether the president believed in it, as long as he doesnt force people to accept the beliefs he has. i'm sure most republicans want vouchers, so people can choose which schools they want to attend and choose what they want to learn. a terribly inappropriate question.
kdawg860 3 years ago
it shows us who's the moron(creationalist) and who has commen sense(the evolutionist lol whatever the fuck you want to call them, darwinist)
Sshelly34213 3 years ago
most people esp with religious backgrounds, unless they were rigorously taught evolution, don't believe in it. i teach evolution in a hs biology class and a lot of students don't believe in it and think it's ridiculous to think we evolved from an ape-like creature. common sense to you isn't common sense to everyone. it doesn't matter whether a president believes in creationism nor evolution, as long as he doesn't force people to believe in the same.
kdawg860 3 years ago
they're still completley and utterly moronic and I think its sad and pathetic that in this day and age people still resort to believing in magical beings. Not to mention some of these people are running the country...now THAT just pisses me off.
Sshelly34213 3 years ago
so just cuz mccain believe in it, he's a lot smarter than the rest? belief in evolution is not a test of how smart you are. it usually shows how religious you are. religious people can be very smart.
kdawg860 3 years ago
that was the most unconvincing rebuttal ever, sorry, but if you actually believe in creationalism you are officially a moron in my book.
Sshelly34213 3 years ago 3
why dont you answer my question? so you think mccain is a lot smarter than all the other candidates because he believes in evolution? even though he flip flops and struggles to answer questions and even admits to not knowing much about the economy?
kdawg860 3 years ago
I think Mccain is smarter for saying he believes in evolution(it'll get him votes and give him some good feedback for not being moronic, obviously he's doing it so that he doesn't look like an idiot. I still think he's a bit of an idiot, but saying he believed in evolution was a wise move. why do you keep trying to start an argument? Obviously it matters to people what their presidential candidate believes in even if it isn't right, that's just the way things are.
Sshelly34213 3 years ago
why am i trying to start an argument? i said my view and you argued differently. there already is an argument. i don't think it matters whether a president believes in evolution as long as he believes in the constitution. it doesnt affect me or you if a president believes in evolution as long as he upholds the constitution. and that's the problem today with our president and congress. they don't uphold the constitution and it's created all our problems today.
kdawg860 3 years ago
And that's why people who don't believe in evolution and science should not be in office, because they cant manage to separate their idiotic beliefs from what should be done. That's a very idealistic viewpoint you have but lets be honest, Americans care about what their presidential candidate believes in. If they believe in nonsense then they look like morons. Not believing in evolution is nonsensical by the standards of most Americans. saying he doesn't would've been harmful to his campaign.
Sshelly34213 3 years ago
so if you dont believe in evolution that means you'll believe in a lot less nonsense? mccain believes in lots of nonsense about the govt's role in our lives. the two are not connected.
kdawg860 3 years ago
but to our country it doesn't matter, they want to vote for someone they can relate to. If Mccain says he's a "devote christian" and believes in "evoltion" as well-2 completely contradictory beliefs-then this sits well with Americans. He's "just like the "average American." That's why its a wise choice for him to say that and that's what I meant, I really don't care what he thinks. Most Americans blindly follow religious bull yet believe in science as well.
Sshelly34213 3 years ago
now youre saying that belief in evolution and belief in the constitution aren't connected but to other people it doesn't matter. the argument wasn't the perception of people in our country. the argument was whether or not it really mattered as a qualification for the president to believe in evolution. it is not, and we have now come to this conclusion.
kdawg860 3 years ago
no I'm saying belief in religion matters to the ordinary folk of America.
Sshelly34213 3 years ago
if i believe in creation which i do thats my opinion and how i was raised, dont shoot me down cuz you dont believe, period, end of story.
RideWitChrist 3 years ago
WHAT?
Of course I will that's a horrible way to raise a child! Teaching them false information! Denying the truth, that's child abuse imo, pure child abuse. It creates hatred towards others, division, ignorance and not even curiosity to learn about the world around them. A child growing up around substance abuse has a better chance at succeeding in the world, at east they have a goddamn mind of their own!
Sshelly34213 3 years ago 10
actually, a child growing up around substance abuse has no chance at life. thats a pretty offensive statement
RespectShmaa 3 years ago
No not really, I know plenty of people who do and guess what they understand reality.
I consider a person who understands reality a much more functional human being than someone who denies truthful scientific evidence.
We live in the 21st Century, we know how the earth was created now, grow up. giant reptiles and man cant exist together, men don't live inside fucking whales, adam and eve are fictional story characters and you're going to die one day forever, fucking grow up and deal with it.
Sshelly34213 3 years ago 12
@Sshelly34213 Did you know for many years atheists and evolutionist said that Ponchius Pilate never existed, and he was just part of this so called fairy tale book called " The Bible ". Guess what? Since then they have unearthed a statue with the inscription Pilate and unearthed coins which feature the name of Ponchius Pilate. So, you acting like evolution is a fact just makes you look silly.....
TheGreekMan1981 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 Epic Failure. Evolution and Pontius Pilate are unrelated to each other, there is no correlation between the two. I never called the bible "fairy tales," but they are myths and folk tales.
A lot of myths involve actual historical figures/moments in their stories; thus is the purpose of folk tales like myths. Otherwise they wouldn't be FOLK, they'd just be stories. The point is that exaggerate the truth, otherwise they wouldn't be folk tales.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 To prove that a character in a story actually existed is one thing, to further prove that because they really existed=the story is literally true is another. The two points are not correlated, it does not matter if pilate existed or not. It doesn't mean anything, it could just be a folk tale. To go even further and falsify the theory of evolution based on this, is just out of this planet irrelevant. What kind of strange logic are you using?
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 There are stories based on a man named Robin Hood interacting with famous historical people, like King Richard. Did this ever happen? Probably not...but that's kind of the point of folk tales. They are larger than life.
There is no literal proof that Jesus Christ even existed, regardless of whether there were records of a man named Jesus. Even further there is no proof that the story of Pilate and Jesus ever happened, thus is the nature of a folk tale.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
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@TheGreekMan1981 There are stories based on a man named Robin Hood interacting with famous historical people, like King Richard. Did this ever happen? Probably not...but that's kind of the point of folk tales. They are larger than life.
There is no literal proof that Jesus Christ even existed, regardless of whether there were records of a man named Jesus. Even further there is no proof that the story of Pilate and Jesus ever happened, thus is the nature of a folk tale.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 When I attended Catholic school (to which I was taught the theory of evolution-in your face creationist) I was taught that belief in God and Jesus were simply a leap of faith. You took the leap and this leap was what made Christianity noble. You did not question anything, you wholly believed in the power of God and Jesus Christ. The idea of a creationist trying to use bogus pseudo science to "prove" evolution wrong and genesis correct is actually immoral from a Catholic view.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@Sshelly34213 Believing in God isn't a leap of faith....I see God everywhere I look. I do not need a candle to see the sun. Evolution is garbage and that is my thought on that. You think what you want. In the end you have more to lose if you are wrong. If I am wrong, well, then I won't be alive to regret it. Even so, I would regret living my life the way Jesus instructed. Enough said.
TheGreekMan1981 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 That absolutely depends on what you believe in and what you're taught! What your denomination teaches you. I already said that in Catholic school, the Catholic nuns and teachers all taught me that belief in God and Jesus was an absolute leap of faith. How dare you tell other people what they believe and don't believe?
So it's a game? It's about winning and losing? You want to win and want me to lose? Very interesting perspective. It's about winning and coming out on top for you
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 For me it's about what is simply logically truthful. Evolution has literal evidence, fossils dating back millions of years recording the progress of the evolution of life on planet earth. To not accept a fact seems strange to me. What those fossils are fake? They don't exist? (even though you can see a lot of them on display in museums all across the world.)
The difference between you and I has nothing to do with faith, it has to do with acceptance of reality.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 I firmly don't believe you understood my initial point, take out the evolution argument and just look at this from a CHRISTIAN and religious perspective. Even from that perspective Catholics-one of the largest, most powerful, and followed denominations-sees creationism as absolutely immoral. So even from a Christian perspective most Christians see creationism as, not just false, but immoral.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@Sshelly34213 I don't CARE, what Catholics believe!!!! I don't care what anyone believes. I care what the Bible says and I take as FULL TRUTH. You believe what you want, and I'll stick to what I know is truth. Thanks and have a good day
TheGreekMan1981 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 Nevertheless, you're STILL not comprehending my point. Christianity is a LEAP OF FAITH. It is not to be proven with fact, it IS to be BELIEVED. This is literally written in the bible.
Lol, science is not a belief system, it exists whether you want to believe in it or not. It doesn't really care if you deny it, it doesn't make science less true because some book talked about creating people out of mud and clay.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 The concept of the leap of faith, imo, is the sole basis of Christianity. To not understand this is to NOT be a Christian. It's why people were persecuted in Rome, it's what made them martyrs. So I absolutely FAIL to understand how someone could possibly call themselves a Christian without, not only comprehending, but actually agreeing with the Leap of Faith concept.
You're not a Christian, I really don't know what you are.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 The whole point of Christianity is that it DEFIES reality in every single way. Do you see men walk on water? Or float upward toward the sky ever? Fuck no. That's defying reality. Man cannot fly or stand on water, that is just how reality works. This is something you commonly accept, if someone did do any of these things, you'd call it a miracle. So to say that the "bible" is the truth" is just false. It's not the truth, it's all a bunch of miracles that defy reality.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 Finally, THIS is where the Leap of Faith concept comes into play. Because the events of the bible defy reality in every possibly way, you take a leap of faith and BELIEVE them anyway. Because that's what Christianity consists of. Which is why I fail to see how accepting evolution has anything to do with Christianity in the slightest. You're defying reality anyway by believe the events of the bible actually happened. So why is evolution given some special attention.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 Why is evolution given some type of special attention that man's inability to float or being unable to walk over water isn't?
I fail to understand why evolution is such a concern for people like yourself, when other things mentioned in the bible that realistically can't happen (miracles) are not a concern for you?
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@Sshelly34213 Why in the world would miracles be a concern for me. I serve a God who is all powerful, and is outside of our realm of total understanding. I don't even claim to totally understand what God is capable of, but miracles is one thing I know he is capable of. Like I said earlier, you are free to believe what you wish but in that same token other people are going to disagree with you. That is just the way it is. Take care!
TheGreekMan1981 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 Because as I said before, everything in the bible is a miracle. So why wouldn't that be a concern for you? You place your entire belief in miracles. That's the point I'm trying to make, one of which you continually dismiss. The Leap of Faith is based on your ability to defy reality and believe in miracles. So why is evolution something you feel a need to totally dismiss, considering that you don't have any concern with the many other impossible things that are in the bible?
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@Sshelly34213 Also evolution is not a fact. If you accept it, then you are simply putting your faith in it. That certainly doesn't mean that it is a fact. At any rate, you can talk down to us as much as you want....We don't let silly things like that bother us. We know the truth and we are free.
TheGreekMan1981 4 months ago
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@TheGreekMan1981 Because as I said before, everything in the bible is a miracle. So why wouldn't that be a concern for you? You place your entire belief in miracles. That's the point I'm trying to make, one of which you continually dismiss. The Leap of Faith is based on your ability to defy reality and believe in miracles. So why is evolution something you feel a need to totally dismiss, considering that you don't have any concern with the many other impossible things that are in the bible?
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 Evolution is not a belief system, categorizing it as such is just false. So please stop incorrectly categorizing the theory of evolution.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@Sshelly34213 It certainly is a belief system. If what "evolutionist" believe is true then when are just products of blind chance and are slaves to chemical reactions. If you and everyone else is just a slave to chemical reactions, how can we be certain that the logic " that we think we have " is only logical because we assume it is. I know that God created us perfectly and logical thinking is being able to see God in everything. You have your right to believe...so go ahead.
TheGreekMan1981 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 How does any of what you said make evolution wrong? It just makes it sound unappealing to you. Objective fact does not care if you don't like it or not.
Again, evolution is not a belief system it is a theory. Even if you don't like it or agree with it, that doesn't give you the right to lie about it.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@Sshelly34213 I am not lying at all. Evolution is a religion and nothing more than that. Take care
TheGreekMan1981 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 Excuse me but you ARE in fact lying. Can you even define the words evolution and religion by their textbook dictionary definition? Have you ever even seen it before?
Either you're lying, or you're completely ignorant and blatantly refuse to listen to the truth. I really can't help you with the latter, I'm just telling you what is and isn't true. Don't shoot the messenger. Go look up the definition of the words religion and evolution and tell me how they are anything alike.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 I can't have a debate or even an argument with someone who can't comprehend facts. So either you bring some evidence to this argument or I'm not going to continue this discussion. It's like talking a brick wall.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@Sshelly34213 The facts are, that evolution is nothing more than a theory and a religion.
TheGreekMan1981 4 months ago
@TheGreekMan1981 And it has nothing to do with being a goddamn atheist, the Catholic church accepts evolution as fact. There are plenty of Christian denominations that do so.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
@RespectShmaa By the way I fail to see how "Evolution is just garbage!" is a proper rebuttal. Can you prove that the massive amounts of evidence collected over centuries by scientists recording the progress of life on planet earth for millions of years is 1. false, 2. does not conclude that evolution is the most plausible theory, 3. do not exist.
If not then I don't really couldn't care less about your opinion, you have no credentials to make me take your opinion seriously. It's just hot air.
Sshelly34213 4 months ago
Hey, Sshelly, that was harsh! We NEED to teach Creationism in American public schools! How ELSE are the poor, poor children of India and China, etc. going to continue to beat the pants off of ours in scientific and technical fields?
Do it for the CHILDREN — of India and China!
COMALiteJ 2 years ago 3
Yea this country is totally finished.
Sshelly34213 2 years ago 2
He hesitated, you know it wouldn't hurt a politician to drop the religious non-sense and stop believing in illogical fairytales.
Scjrd91 3 years ago
Define evolution....
GospelPete 3 years ago
Not creationism.
NorthHitman622 3 years ago
hahahaha
brainthiest 3 years ago
Simply put it's "descent with modification".This definition encompasses small-scale evolution(changes in gene frequency in a population from one generation to the next)& large-scale evolution(the descent of different species from a common ancestor over many generations).Saying u're not sure how or when "god" created life is moronic when we have fossilized Prokaryotes(our common ancestor)that we know for a fact were laid down 3.5 billion years ago: wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
wiki/Common_descent
oxytenis 3 years ago
Help! The nuts are taking over. Really, they have always been in power showing us how peanut butter never evolves.
Atiamutonvnad 3 years ago 2
How does someone that does NOT believe in evolution even get on this stage ?
Look, not all U.S. citizens are stupid.
We are out-numbered though.
What happened to my country ?
Please send help.
bodeezy 3 years ago
homantim: Also, the speed of light has been measured since at least the 1700'ds and as time went on it and more accurate instruments became available it became closer to the actual number. Even today with light measured to 10 or 20 decimal points there is still a margin of error, but the basic idea that it is approximately 3.0 x 10^8 m/sec has not changed. By your reasoning I could say that th e speed of light is 60 mph because they don't have a margin of error?
kluge00 4 years ago
Kluge00, you seem smart. Where did your light come from? If you are going to say the stars, or the sun, where did they come from? If you are going to say a big bang, where did that come from? What made the big bang? Where did the space where the big bang happened come from. If the big bang happened billions of years ago, what made time? Oh and if you can answer the first space / time question. Where did the matter come from? C'mon science!!! Give me an answer. Thanks God!! you already did.
homantim 4 years ago
The point was that your argument that because science could only date the earth to +/- 50 Million years it made your claim that the earth was only 10,000 years old just as valid. Well it does not. Perhaps God did start the universe with the big bang and perhaps science will prove that out, but your complete denial of science puts you on the same road as past christians who threw Galileo in jail for saying that the earth revolves around the sun.
kluge00 4 years ago
homantim : Using your reasoning I will state the following, the Bible says that the Sun revolves around the earth and that the Earth is at the center of the universe. Using your reasoning, since that has been proven false then everything in the Bible is false....
kluge00 4 years ago
Whoa, kluge00 you just lost me. I asked you a series of questions and you ignore them and just flat out tell me the whole bible is false because YOU SAY the bible says the earth is flat. The old bait and switch. I won't even bother arguing with you any further if you can tell me what created space, time, and matter. They all started somewhere. It all comes down to that. You can sweat the details once you know the basics. Do you trust Science who has nothing to offer you. Or God, who loves you.
homantim 4 years ago
homantim: I didn't answer you questions because they were an assinine response to my explanation of how science works. Getting back to the original topic, Religion has no place in government. Since government represents all people and has to make decisions based on fact we must use provable facts and events to guide our decisions, since Religion relies on a supernatural explanation for all events and cannot be proven or disproved it should not be the basis of our decisions.
kluge00 4 years ago
Our country was founded on Freedom of Religion, NOT freedom from. Our government and our faith have always been intertwined. Why do you think even the Democrats try to identify with Christians. They may not actually believe, but they sure do like to pretend. If you can prove beyond a doubt that God did not create everything you see today, and science has the answers, just answer my question. Everything else is meaningless. Where did everything come from. Science has no fact on that.
homantim 4 years ago
Homantim: Do you really think Jesus would be a Republican? Big Business, Money hungry, the poor be damned, screw the environment? The founding fathers of this country were NOT christians, they were Deists and did not believe that Jesus was the son of god. They wanted strict separation of church and state because they saw how religion had such a controlling interest in England.
kluge00 4 years ago
How do I respond to bias? I have a feeling Jesus was bi-partisan. I also know he didn't promote killing babies or homosexuality. Read the Bible if you want to talk about Jesus. He was a lot more fire and brimstone than you think. Don't you think if Jesus wanted to solve poverty or fix the environment he would have? He concentrated on dying for our sins and making sure people knew he was the Son of God. As far as your bias is concerned, I am not money hungry, I help the poor, and recycle.
homantim 4 years ago
According to the Bible, God said 'blood is life and without blood there is no life' since blood does not flow in a fetus until the 40th day then according to god it is not alive until then, but getting beyond that there is no evidence that 'life' begins at conception. As far as homosexuality goes, you are just preaching hate because they have no choice in the matter.
kluge00 3 years ago
You always seem to mention bias, yet blindly ignore your own. I am not biased, I am not for or against anybodies right to worship as they please. Where I draw the line is someone attempting to inject their narrow interpretation of the world onto me and insist that they know what is best for me despite every aspect of evidence they put forth having been proved wrong.
kluge00 3 years ago
As am I against you injecting your narrow minded view on me even when you are wrong. What created space, time, matter? You are obviously very stubbornly rooted in your religion of evolution. Perhaps someday you will change your mind. Until then, keep in mind God created this existence. You are accountable to Him. He is infinite and you are not. You are sinful and require a Saviour, his name is Jesus. Someday when all else fails you, he will be there. Question is will you accept him?
homantim 3 years ago
How am I injecting anything on you? If abortion is legal then you are free to decline to get one if you so believe. Same with stem cells, if it results in a cure for a disease like Alzheimer's, diabetes or heart disease you are free to not accept that treatment. While under your plan, everyone would have to live according to your beliefs and we would not be free to choose.
kluge00 3 years ago
You have injected your views on me by pressing the abortion issue until a supreme court decided to make abortion legal. It was illegal. As a former fetus, I am pro-life. I don't understand how people like you who can't ever close their mouths, are for silencing so many mouths...and lives.
homantim 3 years ago
kluge you probably complain about the Iraq war deaths?
Did you know that Abortion kills over 3200 Americans per day, and 1.2 million per year. A child is killed by abortion every 22 seconds in America. Over 45 million Americans have lost their lives to abortion since 1973. 50 million babies are killed worldwide every year.
Thats a lot of blood on your hands.
homantim 3 years ago
I am a reservist so don't even go there about Iraq and how Jesus told GWB that there would be no casualties. As for abortion, unfortunately there are times when it is necessary, the christians want to end abortion yet never address what is to be done with babies born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome or from crack mothers or are profoundly retarded. How many have you adopted? You can talk the talk but you can't walk the walk.
kluge00 3 years ago
You keep wanting me to respond to "What created space, time, etc." yet you have yet to respond to any of the questions I have posed to you.
I think you are in for a rude awakening when you die, and Jerry Falwell is in a very hot place right now. Show me some proof that this man named Jesus ever even existed.
kluge00 3 years ago
The phrase "separation of church and state" that you are referring too, is not found in the Constitution or Bill of Rights contrary to leftist opinion. If you are referring to the first Amendment, it was meant to keep religion a freedom. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.". Funny how the left loves the first amendment when it comes to free speech, but hates Christianity and tries to prohibit the free exercise thereof.
homantim 4 years ago
Fortunately the people who wrote the constitution were very well read and wrote volumes about what they meant and absolute separation of church and state was what they had in mind. The supreme court has upheld this opinion many times. Huckabee said that most of the founding fathers were ministers, of the 53 signers of the constitution 1 was a minister.
I like your take on revisionist history though.
kluge00 3 years ago
The right to a fair trial is not implicitly spelled out in the constitution, do you also infer that we are not entitled to one? I know GWB feels that way.
You also say that Democrats are non religious simply because they do not think the same way as you, how very self righteous of you. Perhaps Democrats feel that abortion is a very hard and personal decision and the government should stay out of individuals lives and let them make their own decisions based on their own circumstances/beliefs
kluge00 3 years ago
Kluge00, I just wanted to let you know on a personal note that I know where you are coming from. I used to believe science had all the answers. I believed everything they said. I would argue with everyone just like you. I just slowly came to the realization that science can't answer everything. Noone is forcing religion on you, just merely asking you to think for yourself. I am not against science. You can believe your theories, or trust in God. You may be only 37 now, but someday life will end.
homantim 4 years ago
Napoleon was thought to have been murdered while in prison by the English. Recent test indicate he died of natural causes. It turns out he was full of arsenic, but so were most people in those days, as the dyes in the clothing they wore were full of it- much like the knowledge we claim to have today. Todays invention, discovery, or cure is tomorrow's lead paint, pluto, and labotomy. We think we are pretty smart, but we still have so much to learn.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
Actually, we don't know my age. We would have to look at evidence (birth certificate) and then choose to accept these facts to determine my age. Same with anything we know.
The fact that you (or Huckabee) chooses not to accept overwhelming evidence (facts) on this topic is exactly the reason I wouldn't want him (or you) as president.
Convincing you is pointless. You are falling back on strawman arguements and making a concious decision not to look at facts (Hubble, CBR, tree rings, etc.)
BW022 4 years ago
Oh and global warming is fake too.
homantim 4 years ago
Terrifying. Galileo rolls over in his grave. One might have thought humanity would have moved passed this stubbornness to accept scientific facts by now.
bishop8000 4 years ago
Scary. These guys want to control multi-trillion dollar budgets for NASA, CDC, AIDs research, fusion technologies, defend the US against future bio-weapons, national health care, etc. and they don't believe in evolution and Huckabee's case doesn't know how old the universe is? Forget radio-active dating, forget anti-biotics, forget Hubble pictures of things billions of years old, etc.?
BW022 4 years ago
So how old is the earth pray tell? Are you going to use the scientists GUESS from this year, last year, the years prior...which one?
homantim 4 years ago
If you can't realize the difference between being off by 5% and 10000% then you need help.
Hubble, comic background radiation, stellar theory, etc. put the universe at 13.7 billion years. Hucklebee's say it's 10000. One is clearly closer to the truth.
Would you trust someone who guessed the national debt at $9 million just because someone else can't get it to the exact dollar? Why then allow someone to spend trillions on heathcare and science when they guess 10,000 instead of 13.7 billion?
BW022 4 years ago
The "science" of the earth being 13.7 billion years old is not fact. Facts don't change. The age of the earth has changed multiple times. BW022, you are a certain age and get older at a certain rate. If you are now 30, in 2 years you will be 32, not 3,295. Let's say, according to science, new findings show you are 3,295. It's true (to you) because you believe anything the scientists say. Science changes all the time. Apparently so do you. Huckabee doesn't have all the answers. God does
homantim 4 years ago
First, the Earth is 4.5B. The universe is 13.7B.
Second, science has never said that I am 3,295, so that is a stawman.
Third, acceptance is not based on claims, but the facts backing up to those claims. Hubble red-shift, ice core, tree rings, CBR measurements, the speed of light, etc. are facts.
We expect a president to make decisions with a lot less facts than those backing up a 13.7B universe. You think any other decision will have $9B worth of Hubble data backing it up?
BW022 4 years ago
First you and scientists do not know that. The age AGAIN has been changed repeatedly with a margin of error now of 50 MILLION YEARS!!!!!
Second We know you are a certain age, we do not guess as we do with the age of the earth.
Third The claims of the age of the earth are guesses. Not fact.
You are not convincing me of much other than you claim science answers everything. Where did the universe come from? Nothing? Matter? Where did that come from? Matter cannot be created/destroyed? Then what?
homantim 4 years ago
homantim: I thinkthe problem is that you do not understand how science works. You start with a theory and then you put it out for pier review and devise experiments to test your theory and as new techniques and more accurate instruments/experiments are devised you adjust the theory to reflect the knowlege that was gained. So, the original theory said the earth was X years old, as more information is obtained the margin of error is adjusted accordingly.
kluge00 4 years ago
Also known as circular reasoning. Carbon data tests are calibrated on subjective estimates. Science is full of bias.
I love science, as it fascinates me. I love to do quantitative and qualitative research. I know better than to bet my soul on the results, as it is only science, and it is ever changing.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
First you and scientists do not know that. The age AGAIN has been changed repeatedly with a margin of error now of 50 MILLION YEARS!!!!!
Second We know you are a certain age, we do not guess as we do with the age of the earth.
Third The claims of the age of the earth are guesses. Not fact.
You are not convincing me of much other than you claim science answers everything. Where did the universe come from? Nothing? Matter? Where did that come from? Matter cannot be created/destroyed? Then what?
homantim 4 years ago
As George Michael says, YOU GOTTA HAVE FAITH. Evolution does away with faith and explains it all away. It's anyone's right to believe however they want. And I believe Huckabee is a Religious Right Wing Republican Bigot who hunts for attention and deep down in his heart knows being gay is not a choice. He just likes money and power too much to admit it.
loosershate 4 years ago 2
loosershate putting his penis in his boyfriends butt is a choice.
homantim 4 years ago
Look who you are asking to govern you.
There's no better argument for anarchy.
lupocephalic 4 years ago
wanna know why republicans are good for science? they dont wanna die poor and science brings home the bacon! plus our military would be trash without cutting edge communications, avianics, radar, energy/propulsion, etc.
tokamak9master 4 years ago
Old men, old fables.
tothboy01 4 years ago 3
To hold the view that science & religion are compatible (which I once held & many Americans hold) is to show only a partial understanding of how science works. Take miracles:
Miracles (by definition) are the temporary suspension of natural laws (e.g. levitation). The only way to reconcile science & religion is to fall into the argument from ignorance fallacy i.e. to say that we just don't know how something works and until we do it must have been god.
falsificationism 4 years ago
How is it possible that three educated persons could obliterate a vast amount of scientific evidence that has been proven to be a rational and coherent theory? I can not even fathom voting for someone who is blind to plain facts and reality in order to validate some subjective belief. If a candidate can deny these facts in favor of a misplaced religious conviction, what other facts is that candidate capable of doubting?
jmaximo2007 4 years ago
Any candidate who denies evolution can never have my vote.
tykittaa 4 years ago
Its worse than you think zarathurstraMX.
In fact, Bush is just the beginning.
johan28 4 years ago
Then who/what created God? To deny evolution is to show your IGNORANCE and lack of education!!
milehighwoody 4 years ago
Governor Huckabee does not believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. People who believe in creation cannot be lumped into one group of people who believe the Earth is 6000 years old. It is possible to believe that a god created an ever changing universe and also believe in evolution.
OllyakaEnfillade 4 years ago
Either you believe in science or you believe in creationism, which crumbles under the scientific method. I have absolutely no respect for people that do both.
ps2promo 4 years ago
The scientific method, used in all of science, is the method that gave us the technology we have today. By the same scientific method, we conclude that evolution is happening. To believe in creationism is saying you don't value the scientific method. If this is true, then ditch your cancer treatments, microwave, phone, car etc. You can't have it both ways.
ps2promo 4 years ago
10 out of 10 people die. 150,000 people a day die! What heppens after that?
istherenotacause 4 years ago
_The Origin of Species_ did not venture an opinion on this matter, and neither shall I do so here.
JWWells 4 years ago
Help me out here JWWells. This is the only question out of the ridiculous amount of questions we have asked that you avoid. You are super smart, yet the easy questions you avoid. Please- give this one your best try- what happens when people die?
istherenotacause 4 years ago
We're discussing evolution, not the afterlife. It would be arrogant for me to pretend to know the answer to that.
I suspect, though, that Swinburne may have it:
"From too much love of living
From hope and fear set free
We thank with brief Thanksgiving
Whatever Gods may be
That no man lives forever,
That dead men rise up never,
That even the weariest river
Winds somewhere safe to sea." - A. C. Swinburne
JWWells 4 years ago
From this quote by Swinburne, I assume you believe nothing happens when you die? Surely a person as intelligent as you has pondered the thought of the afterlife? It would seem the first problem to tackle in life.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
As a child, I dreamt of heaven and hell. I also dreamt of talking plants and all manner of nonsense - I was an imaginative child. As a teenager, I spent late nights considering the problems of time, existence, and death. I considered religion as a potential answer, but my readings left me suspicious, and I became an agnostic. As a college student, careful consideration left me more and more convinced that the most rational stance was disbelief.
JWWells 4 years ago
Great info! I appreciate you sharing. We are not as different as one would think. College did teach me about the synthesis of knowledge. Overexposure to many theories produced doubt in me too. It is interesting to study all of the possibilities.
So, if maybe there was a heaven and a hell, what would be the reason for going to either one? I'm sure that crossed your mind. You are far to intelligent to not think about what it would take to get there.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
That depends. Are we talking about the Heaven and Hell of the Muslims or the Christians? Which Christians - those who believe in salvation by faith alone or those who believe in salvation by good works? Or possibly we mean the Elysium and Tartarus of the Greeks? The ghastly many Hells posited by some Buddhist sects?
I do not pretend to be an expert on religion; I really couldn't tell you all of the rules.
JWWells 4 years ago
Have you ever told a lie?
istherenotacause 4 years ago
Yes, though I can't remember ever telling a malicious one, and I do my best to avoid telling any at all. Nonetheless, I'm only human.
JWWells 4 years ago
Have you ever stolen anything before? Regardless of value- time from work, a pen, the shampoo at a hotel, etc.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
Yes; as a child, I stole small objects from my sister. How is this relevant to evolution, or even to God? It only proves that people are morally imperfect.
JWWells 4 years ago
First of all, I believe you are awesome in your honesty. It takes a big person to do that. One last question and we'll move on-
Have you ever looked upon a woman or man with lust in your heart? (I don't know your gender, so that's why I asked both- sorry!)
istherenotacause 4 years ago
Yes; are you of the impression that I am either an angel or a robot? I didn't spot wings or screws the last time I looked in the mirror, so that's probably not true. Of course, I could just be programmed not to notice.
JWWells 4 years ago
This will probably take several messages to post- I apologize!
You are correct- we are all human- capable of error- not one perfect human around! The Bible supports this: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
What is sin? It is written: "...I had not known sin, but by the law." (Romans 7:7)
The law is God's holy law- the Ten Commandments.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
We have already looked at three if the Ten Commandments: Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not steal, and Thou shalt not commit adultery. Jesus said in Matthew 5:28 that "...whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart."
So of the three commandments we looked at, you have confessed to be guilty on all three counts. You are not alone! "There is none good but one, that is, God." Matthew 19:17
istherenotacause 4 years ago
In Galatians 5:10 it is written "...we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." Our sin leaves us condemned, "for the wages of sin is death." (Romans 6:23) The law leaves us broken, in desparate need of a savior.
Paul said in Galatians 3:24: "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."
istherenotacause 4 years ago
Jesus became a curse for us, taking the punishment we earned upon the cross at Calvary. He was a perfect, sinless man- "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2Cor. 5:21)
He was beaten and marred more than any man, (Isaiah 52:14) suffered, died, and was buried. He rose again in fullfillment of the scriptures, and will come again to judge the living and the dead.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
Does it concern you that you will be guilty before God? It definitely concerned me!!! I trembled and wept before Him, repented of my ways, and begged for His mercy and grace. I asked Him to come into my heart and change me, make me knew, and save me from sin and death. Even though I was guilty and didn't deserve it, He made me new, and I am forever changed- no longer a slave to sin.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
God doesn't want anyone to perish- not one person! "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) He offers His only begotten Son to intercede for us, so that we may have eternal life, and be with Him forever. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9)
istherenotacause 4 years ago
"...except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Luke 3:13)
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Romans 3:19)
istherenotacause 4 years ago
The law of gravity- we can say we don't believe it, but if you and I were on a jet, and the pilot discovered a problem that will cause the jet to crash, it wouldn't matter if you believed in the law of gravity, because the reults would be the same. When the jete crashes from 30,000 feet, we will all surely die, and be ground to powder. But wait- there is good news!
istherenotacause 4 years ago
The flight attendant says we have parachutes and can choose to jump to safety when we reach the right altitude. You could say, "No thanks, I don't believe in the law of gravity, I'll be just fine." You are too intelligent to say that!
So as you see people placing the parachutes on, you begin to wonder, could it be true?
istherenotacause 4 years ago
You then make the choice to accept the parachute, and put it on. You jump to safety and are saved. Similarly, we must "...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh." (Romans 13:14)
istherenotacause 4 years ago
"And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy." (Romans 13:11-13)
istherenotacause 4 years ago
"But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." (Romans 13:14) I pray that you will do this, and put on the Lord Jesus Christ; repent and be transformed- believe in Him and accept His saving grace- as your life is precious in His sight!
istherenotacause 4 years ago
istherenotacause -- that seemed to be a lot like an attempted witnessing. Here is a factoid for you. Your religion will continue to exist for many years to come. I propose that the reason for this is nothing to do god, jesus or any truths your religion claims to have. The reason is twofold -- indoctrination and witnessing.
Do you not find it strange that your religion cannot continue to exist based on its 'truths' alone?
themadhair 4 years ago
Interesting remarks- thank you for your comments.
Religion is nothing. Jesus is all I need. I wish you knew of the peace I have. The love I experience. I can't explain it. Even if the theory of evolution could some how be proven, I would still believe in what I know is real.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
I live in the realm of experience. I used to think like you do. I used to believe all of the things I was taught in school. Some are great things, but most of it changes every few years, as we learn more about what we have so little of- knowledge of this world!
istherenotacause 4 years ago
I will not force you to believe anything- it will always be your choice to believe in what you believe. Millions would die for their faith in Christ Jesus today. Would you give your life for the theory of evolution? Have you experienced its truth? Have you invested the same amount of time researching the Gospel as you have evolution? Again, it is your choice- but take a look at both sides before you are completely sold...
istherenotacause 4 years ago
"Millions would die for their faith in Christ Jesus today. Would you give your life for the theory of evolution?"
This, in a nutshell, sums up everything that is wrong with having such a faith. If new evidence came to light that showed evolution to be wrong then I would abandon it. To my mind it is fundamentally flawed to hold a belief that you are unwilling to question. If you are unwilling to question it then is it really belief? And for the record I have read he gospels.
themadhair 4 years ago
To the contrary, I have questioned Christianity for the first 35 years of my life. It was when I layed down my pride and knew I couldn't save myself from sin and death that the Gospels made sense.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
You have a conscience of what is right and wrong- God gave that to you. I read the Bible from end to end 6 or 7 times as a non-believer. Like you, I found it interesting, yet contradictory to the pleasures of the lifestyle I enjoyed. So I decided that some of it was good reading, except for the parts that disturbed and awakened my conscience.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
After 35 years, I began to seek the truth, and cried out to God to show me why I couldn't find peace. God revealed to me His Law- the Ten Commandments. He showed me my sin- I was a lying, thieving, coveting, adulterer at heart- separated from Him.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
I felt the separation from Him, and knew by His word the wages of my sins were eternal death. I cried out to Jesus to save me, and He is and will always be the Lord of my life. He took my punishment upon the cross at Calvary, and took all my sin.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
He was sinless, and came to take away the sins of the world. He died and rose again on the third day. His life, death, and resurrection were all foretold in prophecies throughout the Bible. All of this for me and you, so that we might live. We have a choice to make- what will we put our gift of faith in? Man and his finite wisdom? Or Jesus- who is our redeemer, our creator, and our Lord!
istherenotacause 4 years ago
"We have a choice to make- what will we put our gift of faith in? Man and his finite wisdom? Or Jesus- who is our redeemer, our creator, and our Lord!" Ignoring the hypocritical false dichotomy of your comments, I would never choose jesus. If I cannot be prepared to accept responsibility for my own actions then I cannot accept redemption. I won't live my life in fear to the god portrayed in the bible -- a vengeful god undeserving of worship.
themadhair 4 years ago
I can only be accountable for the free choices I make in my life. Any choice I make, whether impetuous, loving, vengeful or divinely inspired, that is made without reason is not a free choice. And that reason shouts at me that any perceived truths that are beyond scrutiny are also beyond recognition and respect. If I go to hell than that is a choice I made a long time ago and with a clear conscience. You may accuse me of pride -- I call it being unable to lie to myself.
themadhair 4 years ago
I haven't accused you of anything. I was only sharing my testimony. I overcame my pride three years ago. I used to think I knew the truth, and couldn't lie to myself. Your truths cannot save me, so you do not share evolution as your savior, just as your understanding of truth. The gift that was freely given to me saved me, and can also save you. That is why I share it- not to condemn you, but for His grace to save you.
istherenotacause 4 years ago
If someone took all of your belongings, and your identity, and then ruined your credit, what kind of judge would you like to have at the hearing after his arrest? What if before he did that to you he had also raped innocent children? And killed people while they tried to arrest him? Would you and the rest of the world want a good judge or a corrupt judge?
istherenotacause 4 years ago
Ignoring your completely irrelevant straw man red herring analogy about the judge, you said this "you do not share evolution as your savior, just as your understanding of truth." I cannot comprehend why you think the concept of being saved is even remotely connected with evolution. This smacks of your religious insecurity manifesting itself in an irrational (assuming you have done research) dismissal of evolution and the evidence associated with it.
themadhair 4 years ago