I don’t understand why boing didn’t use electrolyte in the water to create HHO then use the gas to power a strong internal combustion engine or a pulse jet engine that could make the aircraft break the sound barrier that would be impressive.
money IS a largely symbol for energy. (information too, but information is easier to share so really energy is the limiting part).
oil companies have all the money because they supplied the energy.. money is a token for their products. before that, energy came from Land (solar to make plants grow). 'money' retrns to being land-ownership after the industrial age is over.
@B3NGL15H your right, hydrogen burns 9x faster then gasoline. Theregular effeciency of a gasoling burning engine is 35% at best... closer to 90% on hydrogen and oxygen (accelerant). and we all know electrolysis outputs 2 parts hydrogen 1part oxygen :-) fuel cells are extremely ineffecient, your using electricity to make hydrogen, theyre trying to get the electricity back out, they might as well put a crap load of batteries in a vehicle..
think this is way over engineered. i can take a stock cessna 182 and have it running on nothing but hydrogen within a week or two, without burning an ounce of 100LL.. and within some crazy proton membrane/lithium ion battery. they went the route of extremely inefficient. probably to justify the research budget. what could of been done for $20,000 at most, they spent millions and 5 years of research. my 2 cents
@b101aa2 yeah I bought a little $140 drycell, puts out 1.5 litres Browns gas (hydroxy) per hour. more then enough to kill 30% of the gasoline used in our vehicles ;-)
@Me102288 i build my own with my own engineering. no jam jar stuff. my current cell puts out about 18 litres per minute on 120 amps / 24v. no brown gas. total weight of the unit, 35 lbs. that would about cover 90% of the fuel consumption of a cessna 182. simple bolt on and go. would take about 2 hrs to install from start to finish once i have a unit built. nothing special for me. i used 2 gallons of gas in my truck last week. 150 miles on 2 gallons of gas with a chevy 350.. sums it up.
@b101aa2 sorry splitting water with electrolysis = hydrogen and oxygen, a 300 year old technology, also known as hydroxy, hho, browns gas... etc...
you know if you can produce enough off it in an on demand system you can run a combustion engine entirely on the stuff :-) Mines currently running a 25cc 4 strroke hooked up to a permanent magnet moter.. output ist 1500 to 2000 watts, imput is only 12volts @ 5 to 10 amps.
electrolysis is only efficient at 1.47 volts per electrode :-(
@Me102288 when i hear brown gas, i automatically think tap water with chlorine in it. when chlorine is present, brown gas and brown water.
yes, you can run an engine exclusively from it. that's not problem. i run 90%, so i don't have to do any engine mods, like timing. ran an 8kw 4stroke generator on 2kw of production energy a few times. cell i am building right now, am going to run a gas turbine generator exclusively. i do turbines, so that's only natural. also building one for CAT.
@b101aa2 ya its the guys name that patented it, Dr. Yull Brown hehe.. you know if you have a carbourated engine all you have to do is turn the distrubiter cap to retart the ignition a bit. Not to hard at all, if your running electronic fuel injection they sell o2 sensor hack and "eife" to trick it to not dump more fuel in if it senses its to lean.. which hho is.. really lean to a combustion engine.. lol anyway they sell for about $20 - $30 here (canada) :-)
A fuel cell does seem like a good way to power an electric vehicle, although it must necessarily be more massive than a full blown combustion engine. It's more fuel efficient, but it has less power over mass. It's somewhat like an artificial metabolism in terms of pros & cons.
@niflap nah, "fuel cells are really ineffecient, think, use'ing electricity to create the hydrogen, then trying to get that electricity back out.. kinda a dumb replacement for a fully charged battery :-\ considering all the loss's converting it back and forth twice.. when they get as effecient as a battery, they'll be great :-)
Is electrolysis the only way to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen though? Can it be done through other means, like maybe high frequency radio waves or ultrasound? Tesla came up with a way to use resonant frequencies, which start at a very low energy input and then it just keeps feeding back on itself until the feedback creates enough energy to destroy a building or a massive bridge over a river. Can resonant frequencies be used to break water into hydrogen and oxygen?
Well apparently hydrogen gas was developed way before WW2. Why is it that today hydrogen is not being implemented? I think that you are disillusioned if you think that we don't have the technology today to actually make hydrogen an efficient power supply.
@Vert308 Hydrogen is not an energy source. It's a battery/energy storage technology. It takes more energy to make it than you can get out of it. That being said, I think hydrogen is preferable to heavy, limited lifetime, rare metal dependent, lithium ion battery technology. The best way to make it (without directly using fossil fuels) is to apply electricity to water to perform electrolysis. Ideally, the electricity would come from a renewable power source like solar or wind.
@ektrules Hydrogen is a fuel. If we can come up with a way to convert water into hydrogen, with minimal cost, then it will become a viable fuel source to run our power plants, our cars, and industry. There has to be a more efficient way to break hydrogen away from oxygen. I hope you guys find it anyway.
@ektrules hehe I've been argue'ing the same point backwards.. The easiest way you can tell its not a energy carrier is when you combust hydrogen.. it turns BACK to hydrogen, recombine's with oxygen and comes out water.. Thats been scientifically proven by Nasa. And its the very reason they don't use any other fuels.
So the laws stand true, you cannot destroy or create energy.
@Me102288 Yep. Don't the teach the laws of thermodynamics in school anymore? If so, students need to pay more attention. If you could get a net "gain" of energy from getting hydrogen out of water, then combusting it, then it'd be equivalent to a "perpetual motion" or "free energy" machine. There's no such thing as a free lunch :) Hydrogen electrolysis is getting really efficient now though. Last time I checked, I think they were around 80% efficient; which rivals conventional batteries.
@ektrules a common mistake from humans, thinking a law written by another human is perfectand could never be wrong in any way.. yet we all know humansmake mistakes, and given the time between the law written and now, we have to question or we will never learn the truth. I live by "if we don't learn from our mistakes, were bound to repeat them" :-) now we have generators on vehicles that can give the electricity need for electrolysis.. funny how laws are replaced by technology
@ektrules hydrogen isnt made from anything but electricity in these hho devices, all it is is simple electrolysis when your looking at the user made hho generators, and some like mine take less electricity then a 60 watt light bulb :-\
@Me102288 I'm not sure what you're referring to as a "hho device," but I'm guessing it's just electrolysis. Yes, electrolysis is easy, and I've done it myself. But, there's no way to get more energy out of the hydrogen you've created with electricity than it costed you to "create" the hydrogen. The theoretical maximum efficiency of electrolysis is somewhere between 80% and 90%. Physicists have calculated these things long ago. This is the absolute maximum under perfection.
Yes, but where will you get the electricity from. How many joules of electricity are available to you, compared to how many joules you get from the oil you currently rely on.
Electricity doesn't just come gushing out of the earth like oil did when we started
@walter0bz I dont rellie on oil.. you only get 40% useable gasoline from oil. PLUS the energy transporting it, and the fuel to boil it.. Electrolysis requires water, 2 pieces of steel and a 9volt battery. you want more hho, you use more pieces of metal (electrodes) because the power required to split water is static, you add more surface area for more hydrogen/oxygen to form. hho is 9x more combustable then gasoline (89 octane) , you need 3x less hydrogen (140 octane) do the math :-)
@walter0bz permanent maget alternater.. I'm not stupid ya know.. I'm running a 25cc 4 stroke on hho.. its turning the pma... i get 2000 watts out of it, it takes less then 60 watts to run the hho generator.. hows that for effecient.. duh lol
@walter0bz 1.47 across 11 plate gaps at 15 amps currently using potasium hydroxide as a electrolyte..so 1.47 x 10 = about 14 volt...at 15 amps is 220 watts, Joules? 1 watt is 1 joule per second, so 220 dived by 60(seconds) = so it takes 3.67 joules a second to make enough hho to run a 25cc engine thats turns a permanent magnet alternater...which ouputs 2000 watts, or 33 joules a second.. so why are you asking the energy source if your so smart.. look one message up..its called an alternator
@walter0bz wow a lot higher then I thought, ok here goes from its btu rating, since we're dealing with a combusting engine running on it.. AND I'm not calculating oxygen with it so it will probably be higher.
ok from wikipedia, 1 btu = 1055 joules, Hydrogen is 10 btu a litre. My drycell puts out 1.5 litre a minute, so 10x1055 = 10550 joules minus 35 % from internal combustion engine loss's = 6857.5 and it takes12volts at 10 amps which is 220 watts, and one watt coverts to 1 joule so,
@Me102288 hmm thinking about it, thats not what you want.. you want me to converrt watts to joules...and 1 watt is one joule so, its take 220 whats to get enough hho to run the engine. and the engine turns a 2000 watt permanent magnet alternater, so.. it takes 220 joules, and outputs 2000 joules. so I get about 1700 joules. and NO its not perpetual motion because it will run out of water to splitt into hho.
>>"NO its not perpetual motion because it will run out of water to splitt into hho."
- but if you really turned 220 joules into 2000 joules, surely you just go to the nearest Ocean and keep splitting !!
can you see your error - You've just substituted 'watts' for 'joules'. You haven't told me HOW MUCH ENERGY goes in one end and out the other. e.g. 220 watts x 1 hour generator drives a 2000 watt engine for 1 hour? REALLY? or did you forget to factor the ACTUAL AMOUNT OF HYDROGEN ?
>>"220 whats to get enough hho to run the engine. and the engine turns a 2000 watt permanent magnet alternater, so.. it takes 220 joules, and outputs 2000 joules. so I get about 1700 joules."
-Congratulations, you must be one of the biggest morons i've encountered on youtube.
[1] How many joules does it take put into your generator to make 1 joule of hydrogen. Stop telling me watts. I dont want anything with time dependence. I want you to think about a simple measurement of ENERGY, not the rate of consumption/production. no "litres per minute". Calculate, HOW MANY JOULES IN per 1 JOULE OUT.
[2] Where does this energy- the Joules - come from to run the hydrogen generator. What is the energy SOURCE.
@walter0bz holy shit, I just told ya, you cant do basic math? who's the stupid one 220 into MAKE HHO. 2000 out.. that1 joule required to make 9 joules of energy...
As for the energy source, do you not know an alternater creates electricity by spinning it?
>>" that1 joule required to make 9 joules of energy..."
- You are talking out of your arse !
Are you claiming you have a perpetual motion machine ?
Can you put those 9 joules back in to make 81 joules, then again to make 729 joules etc ? If not, why not ? Is your whole reasoning fucked form the start?
>> do you not know an alternater creates electricity by spinning it?
NO IT DOES NOT
it converts mechanical energy from another SOURCE into electrical energy & some wasted HEAT.
@walter0bz lol omg theres an alternator in every car or truck .. where the hell you think the electricity comes from to run the lights... air conditioning.. radio.. etc.. gasoline isnt reusable like hydrogen yet it powers an interna combustion engine whick moves the 1000 pound vehicle AND turn an alternater awater pump, and a power steering pump... hydrogen is 9x more explosive the gasoline..... DO THE FUCKING MATH YOURSELF
the energy to run the lights comes from THE FUCKING PETROL ENGINE , via the alternator. The alternator does not produce energy - it CONVERTS it from ANOTHER ENERGY SOURCE namely PETROL which comes from OIL.
>> hydrogen is 9x more explosive the gasoline.....
but there ISN'T ANY FUCKING FREE HYDROGEN ON EARTH you have to make it
Look at tables of energy in chemicals... 'gibbs free energy' etc i think it was called.
Different elements store different amounts of energy in the bonds, and energy STORES like hydrogen, or hydrocarbons or carbohydrates rely on storing energy (usually originated form Sunlight) like coiled springs in the bonds, waiting for combustion i.e. recombination with Oxygen, to produce bonds in a lower energy state.
@walter0bz now try to compare an atomic chemical vs that... you'll find joules have nothing to do with work loads in combustion engines... they dont runon electricty. they run on explosive fuels.. hydrogen alone is the most explosive out of ALL the fuels on this planet. go argue with nasa if you think these 'laws" that were written by a human... do you honestly think humans dont make mistakes? honestly think we cant learn anything since that? lol I guess the world is still flat too eh..
>>"do you honestly think humans dont make mistakes?"
- no looking at you its clear humans make LOTS of mistakes!
there are cases where the consensus is wrong and it gets corrected but this isn't one of them. If you could really turn water into fuel WITHOUT EXTERNAL ENERGY INPUT we'd all be much happier. but sorry, its bollocks!!!!
Have you figured out where you were going wrong with Watts and Joules yet.
200 watt hyodrogen generator powering 2000 hydrogen engine DOESN'T represent 10X energy amplification, because you need to run the generator for 10X as long as you burn the hydrogen fuel for. The amount of ENERGY you put in will always exceed the ENERGY you get out.
@walter0bz then look up the difference of a permanent magnet alternater and an electromagnet alternator, you'll notice to magnetize the core of the electromagnet it takes electricity, in fact the electromaget takes almost half of the output of electricity just to be able to generate electricity..... faradays law, a magnet moving across a copper wire = electricity output..... no it does not convert energy. the engine requires no torque to spin a PERMANENT magnet Alternator
you make hydrogen using energy from ANOTHER SOURCE, which is used up when you make the hydrogen.
you could make hydrogen it from solar power, but then you say you have a "Solar Powered Car, using Hydrogen as a type of rechargeable battery"... there the issue is how much land area do you have for the panels.
@walter0bz okie, so ya think hydrogen isn't a anergy source.. why does burning hydrogen create water ouyt if your exaust? so we know water is hydrogen and oxygen..well shit..we just burnt the hydrogen, hot did it convert back to hydrogen combine with oxygen and turn back to water? oh right, the rule, energy cannot be destroyed..So if we cant destroy energy.. and we cant destroy hydrogen.. DING DING.. hydrogen is an energy source. and every time ya try to destroy it.. You get water in yer face
>>"okie, so ya think hydrogen isn't a anergy source.. why does burning hydrogen create water ouyt if your exaust? "
- ok you could say Hydrogen 'is an energy source' once you MAKE it. But it isn't like oil, because oil is READY made.
and yes you have to put oil through refineries but that takes up a small fraction of the oil's own energy. The energy in oil comes from millions of years of plant leftovers (algae) i.e. photosynthesis.
@walter0bz yet they say oil is an energy source, yet they have to refine it to get the useable fuels from the oil out of it.... I don't see the difference, except the fact you dont have to pay for water, and you only need a little power to aquire fuel from it.
do you know how fuels are optained from oil? and how much power is used to do it? I think you'd be floored how ineffecient we are at it.. :-\
@walter0bz really, this is common knowledge, we burn hydrogen, the exaust is water.
a fuel cell uses hydrogen reforming with oxygen to produce electricty.
ok, so we burn hydrogen, its gone like gasoline right.. WRONG the exaust is hydrogen reforming with oxygen to form water. wait a sec we just burned the hydrogen how can water be the exaust if the hydrogen is gone.. water is 2 parts hydrogen 1 part water...
Hydrogen is energy, the rule stands, you cant destroy energy.
Hydrogen is energy, the rule stands, you cant destroy energy.
WRONG.
Tell me where the energy goes, and where the energy comes from.
When something combusts, energy is transfered from chemical energy in the bonds to heat.
that heat cannot be destroyed.
Where does the energy come from when you next burn the same hdrogen atoms? THE ENERGY INPUT SPLITTING THE WATER. So please do the FUCKING MATH on how much FUCKING ENERGY IT TAKES TO SPLIT compared to how far the car can drive.
lookup "gibbs free energy" on wikipedia. there are tables of the relative energy for different compounds. So, raw unbound atoms are at '0', but water said to be at -180 "kJ-per-mole"... i.e how much energy is in the bonds (attraction between electrons & atomic nuclei, like springs). An "Endothremic" reaction takes energy and makes new bonds with more stored energy - or even 'unbonded' an "Exothermic" one releases energy by making bonds with less stress. oxygen in atmosphere counts
@walter0bz you might want to know I'm not making hydrogen.. I'm splitting it from water... aka you run ou of water it stop.. ding ding, its not perpetual motion. It a normal gasoline chugging engine running on an alternate fuel...just like propane or natural gas can run the same engine.. it aint rocket science dude
yes, I know the hydrogen comes form the water. & goes back to water when combusts.
DING FUCKING DING, the hydrogen and oxygen are bound by electrostatic force. This binding takes energy to break, & releases energy (heat) when it reforms. engines channel the heat release into usefull work. You never get out exactly the amount of energy you put in (same amount of heat) because some is lost.
ITS A WRITTEN LAW that entropy (disorder) always increases. we start with solar input and lose.
- hydrogen is an incredibly inconvinient way of storing energy, its used in rockets where they already have the inconvenience of using liquid oxygen in space. Nature figured out its more efficient to store energy in HYDROCARBON bonds (and carbohydrates), in fats & (vegtable) oils, because it's higher density, no leakage. we ended up with all this industry to use leftover biomass (millions of years worth)
@walter0bz cant destroy energy. thats a written law and fact. you burn hydrogen, you get water back. Hydrogen + oxygen.. you burnt the hydrogen.. turned back to water... do the math
You can't destroy energy, but you can destroy information. Entropy always increases, thats written law and fact. The energy always starts in an ordered form (e.g. sunlight) , goes through various devices and ends up as useless heat (disordered) [sunlight coming in is directed so its' ordered]
>>"do the math"
thats what i'm trying to help you with here :)
Energy in chemicals a bit like coiled springs. Different bonds store different. Read about 'endothermic' and 'exothermic' reactions
@Me102288 " you burn hydrogen, you get water back. Hydrogen + oxygen.."\
- burn hydrogen , you get energy out. To MAKE hydrogen, you need to put energy in, from somewhere else. the hydrogen itself is just like a spring: it doesn't have energy itself, but you can compress it, and release it later.
@walter0bz did you even know hydrogen is a atomic chemical?
lol you got no fucking clue, you cant even convert watts to joules..
1 watt = 1 joule, but combustion engines use expand gas to move a piston, its called POUNDS PER SQUARE INCH in TORQUE,,,
you dont want the truth, you want someone to keep paying for oil till they cant afford to drive to work. I don't talk to closed minded ppl trhats mentality is from a 300 year old law
lol car radio takes more power the an hho generator
You aren't factoring in time i.e. HOW MUCH FUEL YOU BURN. you're telling me the engine makes 1700 'JOULES' because a 220 watt Alternator makes hydrogen to drive a 2000 watt engine - YOU DIDN'T FACTOR IN TIME TO MAKE THE FUEL BURNT. learn to think!!!!!!!
@ektrules its a fuel, think about it, we use 5x the ammount of power to ship and refine oil into gasoline.. technically that would make oil "not a fuel" either..yet we waste so much energy turning it into one.
Hydrogen burns, converts back to hydrogen, collects with oxygen, and turns back to water.. an infinite fuel source... Oil is not.
I pick hydrogen any day compared to any fossil fuel.
@Me102288 Have a credible source to back up that claim about oil? That also leaves the question, if it takes 5x as much energy, where does that energy come from, open. If it's true, then no, oil is not an energy source.
But even having said that... this tech has been around since WW2. The only reason it hasn't been implemented yet is because of the oil tycoons, the bankers, and corrupt politicians that are in the pockets of the bankers and oil tycoons.
The technology has existed since then, but only since the late eighties have he had PRACTICAL hydrogen fuel technology you Sheep. And even then it took a good long while (Maybe 2003 or so) Before we had the proper materials to actually use the technology effectively. And only in recent times has it become practical enough to implement in every day life on a large scale thanks to some ingenious new theories and designs.
The ONLY case where oil tycoons had a hand in a new energy was in a rather famous case involving a guy in the US who designed practical water fueled engines (Originally for arc welders but upped in size for cars). He was murdered one day, and his murderer was never found. That was before hybrid technology and hydrogen fuels too! There's a video of of a news report on his works somewhere here on youtube :/
@Vert308 actually the only waste is water... hydrogen combusts, converts back to hydrogen, combine's back with oxygen and well.. H2 and O2 = water... complete 100% cycle, just like the earth has been doing for the last, well since earth was created :-\.
@lordofspeeds4321 thats a gimmick, all internal combustion engines run on combustable fuels. Hydrogen combusts 9x faster then gasoline, mass producing it isnt nescesary and storing h2 is dangerous.. On demand systems are slowly gaining efficiecy as technology rolls... a simple unit that produces enough hydroxy to run the engine beside it is all we need. Thus, all we'd need to do is mix a bit of electrolyte into destilled water and poor it into the "gas" tank..
@lordofspeeds4321 BMW hydrogen 7 runs entirely on just hydrogen... that means an hho generator will need to produce less because your generating oxygen too, a very good accelerent to fuels ;-)
@ClimateScam seriously dude? that kind of narrow thinking is the reason why we are still driving petrol cars. water vapor will condense to form clouds. guess what will happen next? -__-
@asgold8 lol I know, ppl think some weird stuff up.. nah, couldnt be the billion of gallons of nasty hydrocarbons coming outta fossil fuel burning things.. lol
water vapour? uh, do they know by the time the water vapour gets down the exaust its pretty much destilled water? :-)
@ClimateScam water vapour and clouds were here long before humans..HUMANS are the cause of global warming... the planet was fine before we started burning gasoline in 30 billions vehicles spuing crap into the atmosphere.. Water supports life, not destroys it.. unless ya drown in it. :-\
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Water vapor is a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2. And they seem proud of the fact that CO2 emissions are zero and only water vapor comes out of the exhaust.
@flexairz so your saying every cloud is is a greenhouse gas? hmm I find it funny, before humans got here, the planet was just fine.. gee I wonder if it isnt the billions of combustion engines spu'in noxious chemicals into the air...
Gotta be stupid to think the planet was destroying itself before we got here. Or it came straight from the mouth of the oil business who's been trying to disprove every hydrogen technology since the 1800's.... after all, they're making BILLIONS on fossil fuel.
@Me102288 Ever wondered why during the night it is not that cold when the sky is covered with clouds? Or it is cooler during the day with a cloudy sky? Who said the planet was fine before humans came here? It had its disasters before we came here. No doubt about that my friend.
And this planet and all of its life forms are based on carbon, CO2. Without it life on this planet is not possible. Crude oil is part of this planet if you like it or not, it the highest energy containing resource we have
@flexairz in the day its because the clouds block out sun.. same thing before humans.. so basically you think the planets been desstroying itself since it was created? dont know about you but global warming is getting worst because the study on it show its been increasing every year, more ppl, more cars, more nasty shit in the air... the more WE polute the worst it gets.
@Me102288 Good so you agree that water vapor influences the climate. I never said that the planet is destroying itself. But vulcanos spew alot more rubbish out than we can do. And given time the sun will destroy the solar system and all life here.
@flexairz coulds dont influence anything, they block light... just like an umbrella, you honestly think global warming is caused by ANYTHING blocking the sunlight?
Lol no, I wouldn't believe that for a second, its common sense. Clouds have always been here, water has always been here, global warming hasnt until we started burning oil.. period.
@Me102288 Global warming started since the last ice age and it has nothing to do with humans. So you you think that if a cloud blocks the sun it does not get cooler???? Think again my friend.
I don't understain what is miraculously on hydrogen plane? They should make it a years ago. Hydrogen is the most powerful fuel (GAS) better than kerosne, gasolone, standard gas, or anny of todays shits. So, nothing strange!
@walter0bz lol obviusly he doesnt read much. Nasa uses hydrogen as a fuel and says HYDROGEN FUEL...
Oh by the way, your already "misrepreseted" BMW Hydrogen 7 runs on 100% hydrogen.. with they're stand 4.6 litre v12's from the same BMW 7 series line....
p.s. Its been know to work for 300 years.. the oil company cant make money off it.. of course they're going to tell ppl it doesnt work, they want you to pay for oil for untill it runs out... then were all screwed.
@walter0bz minus the fact you use 10x more energy to get the gasoline out of oil and refined... and then you only get 40% gasoline out of that... think again... internal combustion engine's are 35% effecient on gasoline... 85% effecient on hydrogen... plus the fact gasoline kills an engine with carbon, it builds up to cause less effeciency and more wear on the engine... hydrogen doesn't... I dont think you understand it only takes 1.47 volts at 1 amp for electrolysis to produce hydrogen
we already have electric transport - trains, trams, scooters. we already have wind powered transport - sailing ships.
where are you going to replace the energy input for making Fertilizers, Pesticides, pharmecutical drugs, plastics. the energy for heating, the energy for irrigation, the energy for manufacturing
@walter0bz so you just ignore all of the energy it takes to aquire the oil and turn it into a usefull fuel.... nice..
you know it takes 2 pieces of metal, water and less then a 60 watt lightbulb to split hydrogen outta water.. the transportation of oil will be 100x that before you even get the oil. LOL I think you should learn how electricity can be generated by an engine and an alternator, and no, it makes no dif what the engine is running on as long as its combustable.
>>"so you just ignore all of the energy it takes to aquire the oil and turn it into a usefull fuel.... nice.."
Yes. Even today its something like EROI of over 5. When we started using oil, EROI was 30 i think(1 barrel of oil powering extraction and refinement gets you 29 barrels of oil).
>>"I think you should learn how electricity can be generated "
I think you should learn why we use oil, and learn about "conservation of energy".
oil is a ready made energy resevoir. hydrogen is not
@walter0bz lol internal combustion engines dont run on oil, all the energy it takes to refine oil you get exactly 40% gasoline out of it..Now tell me how transporting it (USING FUEL) and refining it doesn't take power? LOL
hell of a lot more then 1.47 volt a 5 to 10 amps require for electrolysis.oil is not ready made..you have to aquire it with equipment that uses energy in the process.. AND turn i into a useable fuel.
@walter0bz your kidding yourself, look up how they refine oil. Its boiling and they filter off the different fuels that comes from oil. I see thats wrong, straight from theoildrumw ebsite on EROI it states: cut/paste from site.. Case in point is petroleum: today globally we find only one barrel for each 4 or 5 that we extract.
if you didnt understand them they said the current EROI for petroleum (aka gasoline/ diesel for combustion engines) is 1 gallon (refined) out of 4 to 5 barrels of oil .
cars are the LEAST of your worries. you can live without a car, teleworking, dormitories etc.
you CAN'T live without the energy input of oil in the range of industrial processes that support us, i.e. modern agriculture and global trade. we already had wind-powered global trade (sailing ships) and that supported 800m people, not 6.7billion.
@walter0bz hydrogen is an unlimited energy source.. as we all know, when you combust hydrogen, the output is water yes? what is water chemical composition? 2 parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen...
In oth words, when you burn hydrogen.. is only emmision is..... HYDROGEN ...
So yes, its an Atomic fuel, you cant destroy energy. think about it... oil doesnt not turn back to oil.. therefore we better get our ass's in gear for our childrens sake
>>"never called it an energy source, I call it fuel, like nasa."
- well - it only helps us if its an ENERGY SOURCE because that is what we need when the oil runs out. Solar = trees, wind = sailing-ships & windmills. geothermal already in use.
Where will the energy come from
>>"You have to spitt hydrogen and oxgen out of water.."
- yes, which requires an ENERGY SOURCE.
you are claiming the hydrogen itself provides energy. It does not. It STORES the energy you supply when you SPLIT it
think of the hydrogen and oxygen atoms connected by a spring.
when you split it, you stretch this spring (storing ENERGY)
when you burn it, you release this spring, *releasing* energy.
the fact different atoms split & recombine doesn't matter - its' still movement against the electrostatic force between nuclei and electrons. STORING energy, and RELEASING it. the energy doesn't come from the hydrogen, it comes from the electricity you use to split. HHO is similar to clockwork
theres cons also lol, the gas companies and car companies are not gunna let that happen for a while and gas is better not in efficiency or cleanness but in everything else
@Martin00028Guitar Water vapor will fuck our planet up bad. think about it, we would be pumping water vapor into the skys vreating more and more clouds and bad weather! wow! GREAT IDEA! CANT WAIT TO DIE FROM GLOBAL WARMING BECAUSE OF THIS RETARDED IDEA! thanks for sharing your very intelligent comment
@dylanhelmer water vapour is also a green house gas. however the because water cycle is simple and can equilibriate quickly with additionality. it stiill is better than co2
the question here should not be why we love to fly but to why we love to travel...humans love to explore and man has invented machine to travel over land and sea.....we in modern times now use theses machine has a way of recreation ....to some people flying means freedom..to some people flying means a business venture..etc..
Yes! Exactly! That way the next time a terrorist flies a plane into a building it will also act as dirty bomb spewing forth radio-active particles with a half-life longer than the history of man... genius! Putting aside the security issue, have you any idea the size and care of a successful nuclear power operation? A nuclear submarine and a nuclear power plant are enormous for a reason. They employ full-time engineers and round-the-clock monitoring. I really hope you meant this as a joke.
@GenoPeppino AHEM! IT IS NOT NUCLEAR! It is chemical. It combinds hydrogen with Oxygen to create WATER, the thing we live on. It evaporates and goes to form CLOUDs, which will rain down into a river where humans will be taking water and extracting the HYDROGEN from it, releasing OXYGEN with is another thing WE LIVE ON!!
@DarkwarriorJ The guy right before me said "Aaah, waist of time, just go nuclear/electric like the submarines." Now, if you have a sec, re-read what I said.
there is at least one are where the profound ignorance of 99% of Americans matches their profound ignorance of energy and that is on the subject of 9-11-01.
so, it is TECHNICALLY feasible to fly a plane using Hydrogen as fuel?
Where does the Hydrogen come from? is the energy used to create this fuel less than or equal to the energy that will be obtained from the Hydrogen ?
no great stretch to make most Americans believe fire caused the total DEMOLITION of World Trade Center 7.
those fuels cell been around forever. Now get a zirconia based fuel cell and you will have lots of output. Since you don't has to use hydrogen to burn. You could burn the pollution in the air for fuel.
Nanosolar has come out with a thin solar film which could be used. It's even more solar efficient than heavy solar panels.
You are right, no solar panel or film would generate enough power for take-off by themselves, but if you used them to charge a bank of batteries or capacitors, then those could power the take-off, and then hopefully the "solar wings" would generate enough power to sustain a long distance flight.
1) The size of wings are not enough for the solar panels to fit over. It takes A LOT of panels to create energy and it won't power the plane with that much. 2) payload would be massive. 3) wings are used to store fuel and the fuel would have no place to go... And of course I already mentioned solar panels have to be in large quantities to produce that kind of power. 4) If you are talking about electrics in cabin such as lights, that's because the engines act like generators.
"Boeing does not envisage that fuel cells will ever provide primary power" - why not? The fuel cell on the Honda FCX Clarity provides 100Kw. That's enough to power a small town.
Current contrails (vapor trails) interestingly dampen the effect of global warming. A test was done right after 9-11 while commercial and private airplanes were grounded. If I remember it right, the contrails reflect a significant part of solar energy back into space. Just search Wikipedia for contrails and you the idea. Deviation in temperature was almost 2 degrees Celsius.
yeah i did a project on it its called global dimming, the contrails did block their own sunlight while as well the smoke and exhaust in the clouds help make bigger clouds and making a different sized water droplet with reflected more sunlight than normal
Hydrogen is not a viable alternative without free solar energy to produce it. It takes too much energy to produce hydrogen. Why wouldn't you just use a battery to store the energy directly? Why convert it to hydrogen then convert it back to electrical energy with the help of a fuel cell? Right now hydrogen is made from natural gas! To extract water from air to make hydrogen, you need even more energy to do that. About 20 times the energy you can use after all conversions. Hydrogen=DEAD END!
The electrolysis used to convert water to hydrogen is 70% efficient, it is then stored in a metal hydride with no loss using a hydrostatic column. When it is extracted, the fuel cell uses it at 50% - 60% efficiency, which is increasing by the day.
Batteries use chemicals that are heavy and extremely corrosive. Fuel cells are not heavy nor corrosive. Batteries do not last but about 300 recharges, fuel cells last 5000 uses.
Future belongs to electric motors. Waiting for revoultion in battery industry, firt of all - more safty ones.
inPB 4 months ago
Very cool
To see more innovative videos like this or want to share your own ideas visit ThinkStageDOTcom
ThinkStage 4 months ago
I don’t understand why boing didn’t use electrolyte in the water to create HHO then use the gas to power a strong internal combustion engine or a pulse jet engine that could make the aircraft break the sound barrier that would be impressive.
tarrasque420 5 months ago
money IS a largely symbol for energy. (information too, but information is easier to share so really energy is the limiting part).
oil companies have all the money because they supplied the energy.. money is a token for their products. before that, energy came from Land (solar to make plants grow). 'money' retrns to being land-ownership after the industrial age is over.
walter0bz 7 months ago
woohoo BMW Hydrogen 7 passes 8 week test at nasa, passed with flying colors.
the same 4.6 Litre v12 in BMW's 7 series line... running on HYDROGEN from a liquid hydrogen tank.
Welcome to the hydrogen fuel age people ! :-)
Me102288 7 months ago
I reckon it would be better to use hydrogen as a fuel rather than using it to generate electricity. It would probably be a lot more efficient.
B3NGL15H 7 months ago
@B3NGL15H and a lot more explosive=dangerous
TheTallRaver 7 months ago
@TheTallRaver Unless you have oxygen with it, it's as safe as normal petrol.
B3NGL15H 7 months ago
@B3NGL15H your right, hydrogen burns 9x faster then gasoline. Theregular effeciency of a gasoling burning engine is 35% at best... closer to 90% on hydrogen and oxygen (accelerant). and we all know electrolysis outputs 2 parts hydrogen 1part oxygen :-) fuel cells are extremely ineffecient, your using electricity to make hydrogen, theyre trying to get the electricity back out, they might as well put a crap load of batteries in a vehicle..
Me102288 7 months ago
think this is way over engineered. i can take a stock cessna 182 and have it running on nothing but hydrogen within a week or two, without burning an ounce of 100LL.. and within some crazy proton membrane/lithium ion battery. they went the route of extremely inefficient. probably to justify the research budget. what could of been done for $20,000 at most, they spent millions and 5 years of research. my 2 cents
b101aa2 7 months ago
@b101aa2 yeah I bought a little $140 drycell, puts out 1.5 litres Browns gas (hydroxy) per hour. more then enough to kill 30% of the gasoline used in our vehicles ;-)
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 i build my own with my own engineering. no jam jar stuff. my current cell puts out about 18 litres per minute on 120 amps / 24v. no brown gas. total weight of the unit, 35 lbs. that would about cover 90% of the fuel consumption of a cessna 182. simple bolt on and go. would take about 2 hrs to install from start to finish once i have a unit built. nothing special for me. i used 2 gallons of gas in my truck last week. 150 miles on 2 gallons of gas with a chevy 350.. sums it up.
b101aa2 7 months ago
@b101aa2 sorry splitting water with electrolysis = hydrogen and oxygen, a 300 year old technology, also known as hydroxy, hho, browns gas... etc...
you know if you can produce enough off it in an on demand system you can run a combustion engine entirely on the stuff :-) Mines currently running a 25cc 4 strroke hooked up to a permanent magnet moter.. output ist 1500 to 2000 watts, imput is only 12volts @ 5 to 10 amps.
electrolysis is only efficient at 1.47 volts per electrode :-(
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 when i hear brown gas, i automatically think tap water with chlorine in it. when chlorine is present, brown gas and brown water.
yes, you can run an engine exclusively from it. that's not problem. i run 90%, so i don't have to do any engine mods, like timing. ran an 8kw 4stroke generator on 2kw of production energy a few times. cell i am building right now, am going to run a gas turbine generator exclusively. i do turbines, so that's only natural. also building one for CAT.
b101aa2 7 months ago
@b101aa2 ya its the guys name that patented it, Dr. Yull Brown hehe.. you know if you have a carbourated engine all you have to do is turn the distrubiter cap to retart the ignition a bit. Not to hard at all, if your running electronic fuel injection they sell o2 sensor hack and "eife" to trick it to not dump more fuel in if it senses its to lean.. which hho is.. really lean to a combustion engine.. lol anyway they sell for about $20 - $30 here (canada) :-)
Me102288 7 months ago
A fuel cell does seem like a good way to power an electric vehicle, although it must necessarily be more massive than a full blown combustion engine. It's more fuel efficient, but it has less power over mass. It's somewhat like an artificial metabolism in terms of pros & cons.
niflap 10 months ago
@niflap nah, "fuel cells are really ineffecient, think, use'ing electricity to create the hydrogen, then trying to get that electricity back out.. kinda a dumb replacement for a fully charged battery :-\ considering all the loss's converting it back and forth twice.. when they get as effecient as a battery, they'll be great :-)
Me102288 7 months ago
Is electrolysis the only way to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen though? Can it be done through other means, like maybe high frequency radio waves or ultrasound? Tesla came up with a way to use resonant frequencies, which start at a very low energy input and then it just keeps feeding back on itself until the feedback creates enough energy to destroy a building or a massive bridge over a river. Can resonant frequencies be used to break water into hydrogen and oxygen?
Vert308 10 months ago
I also like the way that you opened your first statement implying that I'm a sheep. I'm not quite as stupid as you may think.
Vert308 10 months ago
Well apparently hydrogen gas was developed way before WW2. Why is it that today hydrogen is not being implemented? I think that you are disillusioned if you think that we don't have the technology today to actually make hydrogen an efficient power supply.
Vert308 10 months ago
@Vert308 Hydrogen is not an energy source. It's a battery/energy storage technology. It takes more energy to make it than you can get out of it. That being said, I think hydrogen is preferable to heavy, limited lifetime, rare metal dependent, lithium ion battery technology. The best way to make it (without directly using fossil fuels) is to apply electricity to water to perform electrolysis. Ideally, the electricity would come from a renewable power source like solar or wind.
ektrules 10 months ago
@ektrules Hydrogen is a fuel. If we can come up with a way to convert water into hydrogen, with minimal cost, then it will become a viable fuel source to run our power plants, our cars, and industry. There has to be a more efficient way to break hydrogen away from oxygen. I hope you guys find it anyway.
Vert308 10 months ago
@ektrules hehe I've been argue'ing the same point backwards.. The easiest way you can tell its not a energy carrier is when you combust hydrogen.. it turns BACK to hydrogen, recombine's with oxygen and comes out water.. Thats been scientifically proven by Nasa. And its the very reason they don't use any other fuels.
So the laws stand true, you cannot destroy or create energy.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 Yep. Don't the teach the laws of thermodynamics in school anymore? If so, students need to pay more attention. If you could get a net "gain" of energy from getting hydrogen out of water, then combusting it, then it'd be equivalent to a "perpetual motion" or "free energy" machine. There's no such thing as a free lunch :) Hydrogen electrolysis is getting really efficient now though. Last time I checked, I think they were around 80% efficient; which rivals conventional batteries.
ektrules 7 months ago
@ektrules a common mistake from humans, thinking a law written by another human is perfectand could never be wrong in any way.. yet we all know humansmake mistakes, and given the time between the law written and now, we have to question or we will never learn the truth. I live by "if we don't learn from our mistakes, were bound to repeat them" :-) now we have generators on vehicles that can give the electricity need for electrolysis.. funny how laws are replaced by technology
Me102288 7 months ago
@ektrules hydrogen isnt made from anything but electricity in these hho devices, all it is is simple electrolysis when your looking at the user made hho generators, and some like mine take less electricity then a 60 watt light bulb :-\
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 I'm not sure what you're referring to as a "hho device," but I'm guessing it's just electrolysis. Yes, electrolysis is easy, and I've done it myself. But, there's no way to get more energy out of the hydrogen you've created with electricity than it costed you to "create" the hydrogen. The theoretical maximum efficiency of electrolysis is somewhere between 80% and 90%. Physicists have calculated these things long ago. This is the absolute maximum under perfection.
ektrules 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
Yes, but where will you get the electricity from. How many joules of electricity are available to you, compared to how many joules you get from the oil you currently rely on.
Electricity doesn't just come gushing out of the earth like oil did when we started
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz I dont rellie on oil.. you only get 40% useable gasoline from oil. PLUS the energy transporting it, and the fuel to boil it.. Electrolysis requires water, 2 pieces of steel and a 9volt battery. you want more hho, you use more pieces of metal (electrodes) because the power required to split water is static, you add more surface area for more hydrogen/oxygen to form. hho is 9x more combustable then gasoline (89 octane) , you need 3x less hydrogen (140 octane) do the math :-)
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
. Electrolysis requires water, 2 pieces of steel and a 9volt battery. .
WHERE DOES THE FUCKING ENERGY COME FROM TO MAKE THE FUCKING BATTERY.
you take electricity for granted.
When you start using electricity to do all the things you currently have Oil/coal/natural gas for, electricity will get scarce, real quick!
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz permanent maget alternater.. I'm not stupid ya know.. I'm running a 25cc 4 stroke on hho.. its turning the pma... i get 2000 watts out of it, it takes less then 60 watts to run the hho generator.. hows that for effecient.. duh lol
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>I'm not stupid ya know..
Oh yes you are.
You are really... fucking... stupid :)
Thank you for telling me the Wattage of your generator and engine.
Now tell me, how many JOULES do you need to put into the HHO generator to get 1 JOULE out.
then tell me, WHAT IS YOUR ENERGY SOURCE
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz 1.47 across 11 plate gaps at 15 amps currently using potasium hydroxide as a electrolyte..so 1.47 x 10 = about 14 volt...at 15 amps is 220 watts, Joules? 1 watt is 1 joule per second, so 220 dived by 60(seconds) = so it takes 3.67 joules a second to make enough hho to run a 25cc engine thats turns a permanent magnet alternater...which ouputs 2000 watts, or 33 joules a second.. so why are you asking the energy source if your so smart.. look one message up..its called an alternator
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
you still haven't anwered the question:
To make 1000 joules of hydrogen,
how many joules of electrolysis do you need ?
You keep telling me watts, or "joules a second".
I want to know Joules.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz wow a lot higher then I thought, ok here goes from its btu rating, since we're dealing with a combusting engine running on it.. AND I'm not calculating oxygen with it so it will probably be higher.
ok from wikipedia, 1 btu = 1055 joules, Hydrogen is 10 btu a litre. My drycell puts out 1.5 litre a minute, so 10x1055 = 10550 joules minus 35 % from internal combustion engine loss's = 6857.5 and it takes12volts at 10 amps which is 220 watts, and one watt coverts to 1 joule so,
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 hmm thinking about it, thats not what you want.. you want me to converrt watts to joules...and 1 watt is one joule so, its take 220 whats to get enough hho to run the engine. and the engine turns a 2000 watt permanent magnet alternater, so.. it takes 220 joules, and outputs 2000 joules. so I get about 1700 joules. and NO its not perpetual motion because it will run out of water to splitt into hho.
Me102288 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Me102288
>>"NO its not perpetual motion because it will run out of water to splitt into hho."
- but if you really turned 220 joules into 2000 joules, surely you just go to the nearest Ocean and keep splitting !!
can you see your error - You've just substituted 'watts' for 'joules'. You haven't told me HOW MUCH ENERGY goes in one end and out the other. e.g. 220 watts x 1 hour generator drives a 2000 watt engine for 1 hour? REALLY? or did you forget to factor the ACTUAL AMOUNT OF HYDROGEN ?
walter0bz 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Me102288 -
>>"220 whats to get enough hho to run the engine. and the engine turns a 2000 watt permanent magnet alternater, so.. it takes 220 joules, and outputs 2000 joules. so I get about 1700 joules."
-Congratulations, you must be one of the biggest morons i've encountered on youtube.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288.
HOW
MANY
JOULES
TO
MAKE
1 JOULE OF HYDROGEN
WHERE DO THOSE JOULES COME FROM
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
2 simple questions
[1] How many joules does it take put into your generator to make 1 joule of hydrogen. Stop telling me watts. I dont want anything with time dependence. I want you to think about a simple measurement of ENERGY, not the rate of consumption/production. no "litres per minute". Calculate, HOW MANY JOULES IN per 1 JOULE OUT.
[2] Where does this energy- the Joules - come from to run the hydrogen generator. What is the energy SOURCE.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz holy shit, I just told ya, you cant do basic math? who's the stupid one 220 into MAKE HHO. 2000 out.. that1 joule required to make 9 joules of energy...
As for the energy source, do you not know an alternater creates electricity by spinning it?
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>" that1 joule required to make 9 joules of energy..."
- You are talking out of your arse !
Are you claiming you have a perpetual motion machine ?
Can you put those 9 joules back in to make 81 joules, then again to make 729 joules etc ? If not, why not ? Is your whole reasoning fucked form the start?
>> do you not know an alternater creates electricity by spinning it?
NO IT DOES NOT
it converts mechanical energy from another SOURCE into electrical energy & some wasted HEAT.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz lol omg theres an alternator in every car or truck .. where the hell you think the electricity comes from to run the lights... air conditioning.. radio.. etc.. gasoline isnt reusable like hydrogen yet it powers an interna combustion engine whick moves the 1000 pound vehicle AND turn an alternater awater pump, and a power steering pump... hydrogen is 9x more explosive the gasoline..... DO THE FUCKING MATH YOURSELF
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
the energy to run the lights comes from THE FUCKING PETROL ENGINE , via the alternator. The alternator does not produce energy - it CONVERTS it from ANOTHER ENERGY SOURCE namely PETROL which comes from OIL.
>> hydrogen is 9x more explosive the gasoline.....
but there ISN'T ANY FUCKING FREE HYDROGEN ON EARTH you have to make it
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
Look at tables of energy in chemicals... 'gibbs free energy' etc i think it was called.
Different elements store different amounts of energy in the bonds, and energy STORES like hydrogen, or hydrocarbons or carbohydrates rely on storing energy (usually originated form Sunlight) like coiled springs in the bonds, waiting for combustion i.e. recombination with Oxygen, to produce bonds in a lower energy state.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz now try to compare an atomic chemical vs that... you'll find joules have nothing to do with work loads in combustion engines... they dont runon electricty. they run on explosive fuels.. hydrogen alone is the most explosive out of ALL the fuels on this planet. go argue with nasa if you think these 'laws" that were written by a human... do you honestly think humans dont make mistakes? honestly think we cant learn anything since that? lol I guess the world is still flat too eh..
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>"you'll find joules have nothing to do with work loads in combustion engines.."
- hischool physics.
Joules = WORK DONE = Force X Distance Moved.
Joules refer to electrical work, mechanical work, chemical work all the same. Its always something moving against a force.
>>" go argue with nasa"
- explain your theory to NASA and I think they'd laugh at you.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>"do you honestly think humans dont make mistakes?"
- no looking at you its clear humans make LOTS of mistakes!
there are cases where the consensus is wrong and it gets corrected but this isn't one of them. If you could really turn water into fuel WITHOUT EXTERNAL ENERGY INPUT we'd all be much happier. but sorry, its bollocks!!!!
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
Have you figured out where you were going wrong with Watts and Joules yet.
200 watt hyodrogen generator powering 2000 hydrogen engine DOESN'T represent 10X energy amplification, because you need to run the generator for 10X as long as you burn the hydrogen fuel for. The amount of ENERGY you put in will always exceed the ENERGY you get out.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz then look up the difference of a permanent magnet alternater and an electromagnet alternator, you'll notice to magnetize the core of the electromagnet it takes electricity, in fact the electromaget takes almost half of the output of electricity just to be able to generate electricity..... faradays law, a magnet moving across a copper wire = electricity output..... no it does not convert energy. the engine requires no torque to spin a PERMANENT magnet Alternator
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>"isnt reusable like hydrogen"
HYDROGEN IS NOT REUSEABLE.
you make hydrogen using energy from ANOTHER SOURCE, which is used up when you make the hydrogen.
you could make hydrogen it from solar power, but then you say you have a "Solar Powered Car, using Hydrogen as a type of rechargeable battery"... there the issue is how much land area do you have for the panels.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz okie, so ya think hydrogen isn't a anergy source.. why does burning hydrogen create water ouyt if your exaust? so we know water is hydrogen and oxygen..well shit..we just burnt the hydrogen, hot did it convert back to hydrogen combine with oxygen and turn back to water? oh right, the rule, energy cannot be destroyed..So if we cant destroy energy.. and we cant destroy hydrogen.. DING DING.. hydrogen is an energy source. and every time ya try to destroy it.. You get water in yer face
Me102288 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Me102288
>>"okie, so ya think hydrogen isn't a anergy source.. why does burning hydrogen create water ouyt if your exaust? "
- ok you could say Hydrogen 'is an energy source' once you MAKE it. But it isn't like oil, because oil is READY made.
and yes you have to put oil through refineries but that takes up a small fraction of the oil's own energy. The energy in oil comes from millions of years of plant leftovers (algae) i.e. photosynthesis.
It is ready made stored SOLAR energy
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>"So if we cant destroy energy.. and we cant destroy hydrogen.. DING DING.. hydrogen is an energy source."
no.
when you MAKE hydrogen, by splitting it, you are USING energy from somewhere else, and STORING it in the hydrogen.
DING DING
hydrogen is NOT an energy source unless you found some naturally occuring.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz yet they say oil is an energy source, yet they have to refine it to get the useable fuels from the oil out of it.... I don't see the difference, except the fact you dont have to pay for water, and you only need a little power to aquire fuel from it.
do you know how fuels are optained from oil? and how much power is used to do it? I think you'd be floored how ineffecient we are at it.. :-\
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>"yet they say oil is an energy source, yet they have to refine it to get the useable fuels from the oil out of it.... I don't see the difference,"
the difference s the "Energy Return On Energy Invested".
Please tell me what is the EROI for HHO.
>>"do you know how fuels are optained from oil? "
Even if only 10% of the energy from oil was useable, thats still an energy source.
TELL ME WHAT IS THE FUCKING EROI OF HYDROGEN - you still haven't done this.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>" oh right, the rule, energy cannot be destroyed..So if we cant destroy energy.. and we cant destroy hydrogen."
- stringing words together randomly...
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz really, this is common knowledge, we burn hydrogen, the exaust is water.
a fuel cell uses hydrogen reforming with oxygen to produce electricty.
ok, so we burn hydrogen, its gone like gasoline right.. WRONG the exaust is hydrogen reforming with oxygen to form water. wait a sec we just burned the hydrogen how can water be the exaust if the hydrogen is gone.. water is 2 parts hydrogen 1 part water...
Hydrogen is energy, the rule stands, you cant destroy energy.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
Hydrogen is energy, the rule stands, you cant destroy energy.
WRONG.
Tell me where the energy goes, and where the energy comes from.
When something combusts, energy is transfered from chemical energy in the bonds to heat.
that heat cannot be destroyed.
Where does the energy come from when you next burn the same hdrogen atoms? THE ENERGY INPUT SPLITTING THE WATER. So please do the FUCKING MATH on how much FUCKING ENERGY IT TAKES TO SPLIT compared to how far the car can drive.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
lookup "gibbs free energy" on wikipedia. there are tables of the relative energy for different compounds. So, raw unbound atoms are at '0', but water said to be at -180 "kJ-per-mole"... i.e how much energy is in the bonds (attraction between electrons & atomic nuclei, like springs). An "Endothremic" reaction takes energy and makes new bonds with more stored energy - or even 'unbonded' an "Exothermic" one releases energy by making bonds with less stress. oxygen in atmosphere counts
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz you might want to know I'm not making hydrogen.. I'm splitting it from water... aka you run ou of water it stop.. ding ding, its not perpetual motion. It a normal gasoline chugging engine running on an alternate fuel...just like propane or natural gas can run the same engine.. it aint rocket science dude
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
yes, I know the hydrogen comes form the water. & goes back to water when combusts.
DING FUCKING DING, the hydrogen and oxygen are bound by electrostatic force. This binding takes energy to break, & releases energy (heat) when it reforms. engines channel the heat release into usefull work. You never get out exactly the amount of energy you put in (same amount of heat) because some is lost.
ITS A WRITTEN LAW that entropy (disorder) always increases. we start with solar input and lose.
walter0bz 7 months ago
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@Me102288
"It a normal gasoline chugging engine running on an alternate fuel...just like propane or natural gas can run the same engine"
where does the energy come from to split the water into the HHO.
just tell me,
how many joules do you spend splitting water for 1 joule of usefull work done burning your fuel.
IT AINT ROCKET SCIENCE DUDE ITS HIGHSCHOOL PHYSICS WHICH YOU APPARENTLY DIDNT TAKE
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>" hydrogen is 9x more explosive the gasoline."
- hydrogen is an incredibly inconvinient way of storing energy, its used in rockets where they already have the inconvenience of using liquid oxygen in space. Nature figured out its more efficient to store energy in HYDROCARBON bonds (and carbohydrates), in fats & (vegtable) oils, because it's higher density, no leakage. we ended up with all this industry to use leftover biomass (millions of years worth)
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz cant destroy energy. thats a written law and fact. you burn hydrogen, you get water back. Hydrogen + oxygen.. you burnt the hydrogen.. turned back to water... do the math
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
You can't destroy energy, but you can destroy information. Entropy always increases, thats written law and fact. The energy always starts in an ordered form (e.g. sunlight) , goes through various devices and ends up as useless heat (disordered) [sunlight coming in is directed so its' ordered]
>>"do the math"
thats what i'm trying to help you with here :)
Energy in chemicals a bit like coiled springs. Different bonds store different. Read about 'endothermic' and 'exothermic' reactions
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288 " you burn hydrogen, you get water back. Hydrogen + oxygen.."\
- burn hydrogen , you get energy out. To MAKE hydrogen, you need to put energy in, from somewhere else. the hydrogen itself is just like a spring: it doesn't have energy itself, but you can compress it, and release it later.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz did you even know hydrogen is a atomic chemical?
lol you got no fucking clue, you cant even convert watts to joules..
1 watt = 1 joule, but combustion engines use expand gas to move a piston, its called POUNDS PER SQUARE INCH in TORQUE,,,
you dont want the truth, you want someone to keep paying for oil till they cant afford to drive to work. I don't talk to closed minded ppl trhats mentality is from a 300 year old law
lol car radio takes more power the an hho generator
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
1 watt = 1 joule,
WRONG, MORON, 1WATT = 1 JOULE PER SECOND.
How LONG can you run the engine for.
You aren't factoring in time i.e. HOW MUCH FUEL YOU BURN. you're telling me the engine makes 1700 'JOULES' because a 220 watt Alternator makes hydrogen to drive a 2000 watt engine - YOU DIDN'T FACTOR IN TIME TO MAKE THE FUEL BURNT. learn to think!!!!!!!
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288
"lol car radio takes more power the an hho generator"
If you run your HHO generator for 1 hour, how LONG does it take for the car to burn that much hydrogen.
1 hour generating at 200 watts = HOW MANY HOURS DRIVING at 2000 watts?? 0.1 perhaps???
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
when you think through the answer, it will show you the gap in your argument.
If you have 1000 Joules of hydrogen in your tank, how many joules of hydrogen can you make using that?
Are you telling me you have a Perpetual Motion Machine ?
walter0bz 7 months ago
@ektrules its a fuel, think about it, we use 5x the ammount of power to ship and refine oil into gasoline.. technically that would make oil "not a fuel" either..yet we waste so much energy turning it into one.
Hydrogen burns, converts back to hydrogen, collects with oxygen, and turns back to water.. an infinite fuel source... Oil is not.
I pick hydrogen any day compared to any fossil fuel.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 Have a credible source to back up that claim about oil? That also leaves the question, if it takes 5x as much energy, where does that energy come from, open. If it's true, then no, oil is not an energy source.
ektrules 7 months ago
But even having said that... this tech has been around since WW2. The only reason it hasn't been implemented yet is because of the oil tycoons, the bankers, and corrupt politicians that are in the pockets of the bankers and oil tycoons.
Vert308 11 months ago
The technology has existed since then, but only since the late eighties have he had PRACTICAL hydrogen fuel technology you Sheep. And even then it took a good long while (Maybe 2003 or so) Before we had the proper materials to actually use the technology effectively. And only in recent times has it become practical enough to implement in every day life on a large scale thanks to some ingenious new theories and designs.
Technology has to evolve you know :/
peepeevagi 11 months ago
The ONLY case where oil tycoons had a hand in a new energy was in a rather famous case involving a guy in the US who designed practical water fueled engines (Originally for arc welders but upped in size for cars). He was murdered one day, and his murderer was never found. That was before hybrid technology and hydrogen fuels too! There's a video of of a news report on his works somewhere here on youtube :/
peepeevagi 11 months ago
The good thing about this technology, is the only waste which is produced, is heat.
Vert308 11 months ago
@Vert308 actually the only waste is water... hydrogen combusts, converts back to hydrogen, combine's back with oxygen and well.. H2 and O2 = water... complete 100% cycle, just like the earth has been doing for the last, well since earth was created :-\.
Me102288 7 months ago
Only reason all new cars dont run on this is because we are still trying to find a efficiant way to mass produce it
lordofspeeds4321 11 months ago
@lordofspeeds4321 thats a gimmick, all internal combustion engines run on combustable fuels. Hydrogen combusts 9x faster then gasoline, mass producing it isnt nescesary and storing h2 is dangerous.. On demand systems are slowly gaining efficiecy as technology rolls... a simple unit that produces enough hydroxy to run the engine beside it is all we need. Thus, all we'd need to do is mix a bit of electrolyte into destilled water and poor it into the "gas" tank..
Me102288 7 months ago
@lordofspeeds4321 BMW hydrogen 7 runs entirely on just hydrogen... that means an hho generator will need to produce less because your generating oxygen too, a very good accelerent to fuels ;-)
Me102288 7 months ago
METHANOL!!!!
DamianiWins 11 months ago
I suppose it would be a bit too optimistic to be designing a hydrogen-powered private plane with 2000hp engines...
SingularlyDatarific 1 year ago
Didn't anybody tell them water vapour is a greenhouse gas?
ClimateScam 1 year ago
@ClimateScam Yeah and it is also drinkable and it condences into clouds and comes back as clean water. THINK FIRST!!!
DarkwarriorJ 1 year ago
@ClimateScam seriously dude? that kind of narrow thinking is the reason why we are still driving petrol cars. water vapor will condense to form clouds. guess what will happen next? -__-
asgold8 1 year ago
@asgold8 lol I know, ppl think some weird stuff up.. nah, couldnt be the billion of gallons of nasty hydrocarbons coming outta fossil fuel burning things.. lol
water vapour? uh, do they know by the time the water vapour gets down the exaust its pretty much destilled water? :-)
Me102288 7 months ago
@ClimateScam what planet are you on dude?
cartmanrlsusall 11 months ago
@ClimateScam water vapour and clouds were here long before humans..HUMANS are the cause of global warming... the planet was fine before we started burning gasoline in 30 billions vehicles spuing crap into the atmosphere.. Water supports life, not destroys it.. unless ya drown in it. :-\
Me102288 7 months ago
Water is it's exhaust. Clean energy!!!
newsworthyable 1 year ago
In NW Australia, we have huge tides,
huge evaporation and huge dry rivers and lakes.
Tides are up to 12m. Evaporation is up to 4m per year .
Huge 12m tidal river erosion can revive old dry once mighty rivers, creeks and lakes,
desalinate the country and change deserts to rain forests to provide more rain across Australia.
we need more energy, food, land, water and cooler climate,
Plenty of energy and HYDROGEN TO RUN YOUR CAR environment friendly.
see: mitic climate engineering
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narragansettharco 1 year ago
Funny thing:
Water vapor is a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2. And they seem proud of the fact that CO2 emissions are zero and only water vapor comes out of the exhaust.
flexairz 1 year ago
@flexairz so your saying every cloud is is a greenhouse gas? hmm I find it funny, before humans got here, the planet was just fine.. gee I wonder if it isnt the billions of combustion engines spu'in noxious chemicals into the air...
Gotta be stupid to think the planet was destroying itself before we got here. Or it came straight from the mouth of the oil business who's been trying to disprove every hydrogen technology since the 1800's.... after all, they're making BILLIONS on fossil fuel.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 Ever wondered why during the night it is not that cold when the sky is covered with clouds? Or it is cooler during the day with a cloudy sky? Who said the planet was fine before humans came here? It had its disasters before we came here. No doubt about that my friend.
And this planet and all of its life forms are based on carbon, CO2. Without it life on this planet is not possible. Crude oil is part of this planet if you like it or not, it the highest energy containing resource we have
flexairz 7 months ago
@flexairz in the day its because the clouds block out sun.. same thing before humans.. so basically you think the planets been desstroying itself since it was created? dont know about you but global warming is getting worst because the study on it show its been increasing every year, more ppl, more cars, more nasty shit in the air... the more WE polute the worst it gets.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 Good so you agree that water vapor influences the climate. I never said that the planet is destroying itself. But vulcanos spew alot more rubbish out than we can do. And given time the sun will destroy the solar system and all life here.
flexairz 7 months ago
@flexairz coulds dont influence anything, they block light... just like an umbrella, you honestly think global warming is caused by ANYTHING blocking the sunlight?
Lol no, I wouldn't believe that for a second, its common sense. Clouds have always been here, water has always been here, global warming hasnt until we started burning oil.. period.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 Global warming started since the last ice age and it has nothing to do with humans. So you you think that if a cloud blocks the sun it does not get cooler???? Think again my friend.
flexairz 7 months ago
I don't understain what is miraculously on hydrogen plane? They should make it a years ago. Hydrogen is the most powerful fuel (GAS) better than kerosne, gasolone, standard gas, or anny of todays shits. So, nothing strange!
Ubojica6661 1 year ago
hydrogen is not a fuel source, it can't replace the true role of hydrocarbons
its potential is misrepresented
it is pushed by car-companies trying to survive beyond the oil-age... which they cannot.
walter0bz 1 year ago
@walter0bz lol obviusly he doesnt read much. Nasa uses hydrogen as a fuel and says HYDROGEN FUEL...
Oh by the way, your already "misrepreseted" BMW Hydrogen 7 runs on 100% hydrogen.. with they're stand 4.6 litre v12's from the same BMW 7 series line....
p.s. Its been know to work for 300 years.. the oil company cant make money off it.. of course they're going to tell ppl it doesnt work, they want you to pay for oil for untill it runs out... then were all screwed.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 - Wrong.
the reason we useoil instead of hydrogen is, Oil is ready made Energy Store.
you still need another source of energy to make the hydrogen.
and yes - we're all screwed when oil runs out, only fusion could keep this civilization going.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz minus the fact you use 10x more energy to get the gasoline out of oil and refined... and then you only get 40% gasoline out of that... think again... internal combustion engine's are 35% effecient on gasoline... 85% effecient on hydrogen... plus the fact gasoline kills an engine with carbon, it builds up to cause less effeciency and more wear on the engine... hydrogen doesn't... I dont think you understand it only takes 1.47 volts at 1 amp for electrolysis to produce hydrogen
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
whatever the efficiency,
oil is ready made energy, hydrogen is not.
you have to make the hydrogen.
Electrolysis, using electricity from where?
we already have electric transport - trains, trams, scooters. we already have wind powered transport - sailing ships.
where are you going to replace the energy input for making Fertilizers, Pesticides, pharmecutical drugs, plastics. the energy for heating, the energy for irrigation, the energy for manufacturing
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz so you just ignore all of the energy it takes to aquire the oil and turn it into a usefull fuel.... nice..
you know it takes 2 pieces of metal, water and less then a 60 watt lightbulb to split hydrogen outta water.. the transportation of oil will be 100x that before you even get the oil. LOL I think you should learn how electricity can be generated by an engine and an alternator, and no, it makes no dif what the engine is running on as long as its combustable.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>"so you just ignore all of the energy it takes to aquire the oil and turn it into a usefull fuel.... nice.."
Yes. Even today its something like EROI of over 5. When we started using oil, EROI was 30 i think(1 barrel of oil powering extraction and refinement gets you 29 barrels of oil).
>>"I think you should learn how electricity can be generated "
I think you should learn why we use oil, and learn about "conservation of energy".
oil is a ready made energy resevoir. hydrogen is not
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz lol internal combustion engines dont run on oil, all the energy it takes to refine oil you get exactly 40% gasoline out of it..Now tell me how transporting it (USING FUEL) and refining it doesn't take power? LOL
hell of a lot more then 1.47 volt a 5 to 10 amps require for electrolysis.oil is not ready made..you have to aquire it with equipment that uses energy in the process.. AND turn i into a useable fuel.
Me102288 7 months ago
@walter0bz your kidding yourself, look up how they refine oil. Its boiling and they filter off the different fuels that comes from oil. I see thats wrong, straight from theoildrumw ebsite on EROI it states: cut/paste from site.. Case in point is petroleum: today globally we find only one barrel for each 4 or 5 that we extract.
if you didnt understand them they said the current EROI for petroleum (aka gasoline/ diesel for combustion engines) is 1 gallon (refined) out of 4 to 5 barrels of oil .
Me102288 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Me102288
>>you know it takes 2 pieces of metal, water and less then a 60 watt lightbulb to split hydrogen outta water..
so, that'll give you enough hydrogen to power less than a 60 watt lightbulb..
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
cars are the LEAST of your worries. you can live without a car, teleworking, dormitories etc.
you CAN'T live without the energy input of oil in the range of industrial processes that support us, i.e. modern agriculture and global trade. we already had wind-powered global trade (sailing ships) and that supported 800m people, not 6.7billion.
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz hydrogen can fuel any generator with no changes made to the engine or generator :-\
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
yes but using energy from where to make the hydrogen.
oil is an energy *source*.
my question is, what energy *source* will you use to replace oil.
do you understand why this means hydrogen can't replace oil itself?
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz hydrogen is an unlimited energy source.. as we all know, when you combust hydrogen, the output is water yes? what is water chemical composition? 2 parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen...
In oth words, when you burn hydrogen.. is only emmision is..... HYDROGEN ...
So yes, its an Atomic fuel, you cant destroy energy. think about it... oil doesnt not turn back to oil.. therefore we better get our ass's in gear for our childrens sake
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>hydrogen is an unlimited energy source
No, you stupid fool, I'm trying to explain, IT IS NOT A FUCKING ENERGY SOURCE AT ALL.
where do you get the energy to make the hydrogen? that is your energy SOURCE.
Hydrogen is an energy CARRIER.
>>for our childrens sake
- your children are fucked - only 1 in 6 will survive
walter0bz 7 months ago
@walter0bz never called it an energy source, I call it fuel, like nasa.
I dont have children lol, I'm glad to, most ofthem are idiots.
The have to refine the gasoline and diesel out of oil.
You have to spitt hydrogen and oxgen out of water..
I really dont know why your argueing its pretty simple if you ask me.
Me102288 7 months ago
@Me102288
>>"never called it an energy source, I call it fuel, like nasa."
- well - it only helps us if its an ENERGY SOURCE because that is what we need when the oil runs out. Solar = trees, wind = sailing-ships & windmills. geothermal already in use.
Where will the energy come from
>>"You have to spitt hydrogen and oxgen out of water.."
- yes, which requires an ENERGY SOURCE.
you are claiming the hydrogen itself provides energy. It does not. It STORES the energy you supply when you SPLIT it
walter0bz 7 months ago
@Me102288 -
think of the hydrogen and oxygen atoms connected by a spring.
when you split it, you stretch this spring (storing ENERGY)
when you burn it, you release this spring, *releasing* energy.
the fact different atoms split & recombine doesn't matter - its' still movement against the electrostatic force between nuclei and electrons. STORING energy, and RELEASING it. the energy doesn't come from the hydrogen, it comes from the electricity you use to split. HHO is similar to clockwork
walter0bz 7 months ago
I like it. I might go out and kiss an engineer.
UncleKennybobs 1 year ago
This plane is a start but it is very weak. I thought Boeing could do more.
hawkermustang 1 year ago
Water (and hydrogen from it) IS THE ANSWER! Hydrogen vapor runs an internal combustion engine better and cleaner than gas.
Martin00028Guitar 2 years ago
theres cons also lol, the gas companies and car companies are not gunna let that happen for a while and gas is better not in efficiency or cleanness but in everything else
Reallaty 2 years ago 2
@Martin00028Guitar Water vapor will fuck our planet up bad. think about it, we would be pumping water vapor into the skys vreating more and more clouds and bad weather! wow! GREAT IDEA! CANT WAIT TO DIE FROM GLOBAL WARMING BECAUSE OF THIS RETARDED IDEA! thanks for sharing your very intelligent comment
dylanhelmer 1 year ago
@dylanhelmer At the moment, your hot air is doing more of a tune on the environment not to mention anyone else with an IQ out of the double digits..
JaleelJohanson62 1 year ago
@dylanhelmer water vapour is also a green house gas. however the because water cycle is simple and can equilibriate quickly with additionality. it stiill is better than co2
manzha 1 year ago
COOL!
CaptainTred 2 years ago
fantastic. never seen anything like this. moter nature has it all i guess.
drkrishna2020 2 years ago
Now that we have hydrogen airplanes, the us military should have hydrogen jets. no more drilling for oil. :)
motorspear9000 2 years ago
Beautiful!
sendmedem 2 years ago 2
the question here should not be why we love to fly but to why we love to travel...humans love to explore and man has invented machine to travel over land and sea.....we in modern times now use theses machine has a way of recreation ....to some people flying means freedom..to some people flying means a business venture..etc..
webber688 2 years ago 2
Dear All,
I have some questions about psychology:
(1) Why do we love flying?
(2) Why do we want to design new aeroplanes?
(3) What do we enjoy when design new aeroplanes?
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for your creative ideas and brainstorm!!! :)
applesweeter 2 years ago
I guess you have never flown in one
capedavis 2 years ago
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serresjio 1 year ago
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serresjio 1 year ago
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serresjio 1 year ago
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serresjio 1 year ago
@applesweeter
i dont know how about the brainstorm, but i answer your qs as by myself.
1. because this is the perfect manner of movement.
2. to fly more.
3. Every creation is the step to perfection. I never designed an airplane, but i think it is not an exception.
serresjio 1 year ago
@serresjio Well The third sentence was said very beatiful!
Hope there comes more of this aircraft.
TheGtaKevin 1 year ago
Is this from stock symbol SYMW?
amwaybootcamp 2 years ago
Aaah, waist of time, just go nuclear/electric like the submarines.
georgitushev 2 years ago
Yes! Exactly! That way the next time a terrorist flies a plane into a building it will also act as dirty bomb spewing forth radio-active particles with a half-life longer than the history of man... genius! Putting aside the security issue, have you any idea the size and care of a successful nuclear power operation? A nuclear submarine and a nuclear power plant are enormous for a reason. They employ full-time engineers and round-the-clock monitoring. I really hope you meant this as a joke.
GenoPeppino 2 years ago
@GenoPeppino AHEM! IT IS NOT NUCLEAR! It is chemical. It combinds hydrogen with Oxygen to create WATER, the thing we live on. It evaporates and goes to form CLOUDs, which will rain down into a river where humans will be taking water and extracting the HYDROGEN from it, releasing OXYGEN with is another thing WE LIVE ON!!
DarkwarriorJ 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DarkwarriorJ The guy right before me said "Aaah, waist of time, just go nuclear/electric like the submarines." Now, if you have a sec, re-read what I said.
GenoPeppino 3 months ago
Looks like diamont aircraft
scmbyhbk 2 years ago
who here believes the American oil industry has not been in TERMINAL decline for over 30 years?
who here believes that Hydrogen is anything other than a means to STORE energy?
who here believes there is an infinite quantity of petroleum?
who here believe that Osama Bin Laden suspended Newton's Third Law on 9-11-01?
who here believes a socially adept psychopath is incapable of being elected president?
hmmm, what would a psychopath president, with major ties to oil industry do ........
bIZAROsPRMN11 2 years ago
there is at least one are where the profound ignorance of 99% of Americans matches their profound ignorance of energy and that is on the subject of 9-11-01.
so, it is TECHNICALLY feasible to fly a plane using Hydrogen as fuel?
Where does the Hydrogen come from? is the energy used to create this fuel less than or equal to the energy that will be obtained from the Hydrogen ?
no great stretch to make most Americans believe fire caused the total DEMOLITION of World Trade Center 7.
bIZAROsPRMN11 2 years ago
those fuels cell been around forever. Now get a zirconia based fuel cell and you will have lots of output. Since you don't has to use hydrogen to burn. You could burn the pollution in the air for fuel.
raypsi 2 years ago 2
i would like to see a Aircraft just run on electric
thegreatkoua 2 years ago
the air would be very humid
thisismysn230 2 years ago
I Still can't figure out why the don't put solar panels over the wings. It's so simple, but nobody seems to be doing it.
Daemo4 2 years ago
i think solar panels would be 2 heavy, and they probably wudnt be able to power take-offs.
ciano35 2 years ago
Nanosolar has come out with a thin solar film which could be used. It's even more solar efficient than heavy solar panels.
You are right, no solar panel or film would generate enough power for take-off by themselves, but if you used them to charge a bank of batteries or capacitors, then those could power the take-off, and then hopefully the "solar wings" would generate enough power to sustain a long distance flight.
This of course wouldn't be a night flyer.
Daemo4 2 years ago
Nope but you're onto something there. I like it.
111olbap 2 years ago
Solar powered flight has been achieved. Solar Challenger crossed the English Channel & reached 11,000'
niflap 2 years ago
ummm. i dont think the solar power would provide enough power.....btw how will they fly at night.... or if it was cloudy lol.....
midgetman433 2 years ago
NASA has a prototype called Helios. Its slow and huge and can't carry much wait. But cool anyhow. Search for "helios" or "solar plane"
joshuaoha 2 years ago
solar panels don't come too cheap so it's probably gonna increase the price of airplanes
Ausesher 2 years ago
1) The size of wings are not enough for the solar panels to fit over. It takes A LOT of panels to create energy and it won't power the plane with that much. 2) payload would be massive. 3) wings are used to store fuel and the fuel would have no place to go... And of course I already mentioned solar panels have to be in large quantities to produce that kind of power. 4) If you are talking about electrics in cabin such as lights, that's because the engines act like generators.
choidj 2 years ago
that's cause the oil companies don't want them to use anything except oil products BASTARDS
kelvin951980 2 years ago 2
"Boeing does not envisage that fuel cells will ever provide primary power" - why not? The fuel cell on the Honda FCX Clarity provides 100Kw. That's enough to power a small town.
DeafFret 2 years ago
for example, the cessna 172 got a 120 kw engine.
A formula one car uses more than 500 kw of power
1 hp = 0.7 kw
bobdagangster 2 years ago
I bought this F-16 Pulse King, my engine is running so smooth, I looks like I am getting more HHO with less amps.
I have them in all my cars and a Honda Motorcycle. It is very high tech. I finally bought something that works
hho1junkie 3 years ago
Current contrails (vapor trails) interestingly dampen the effect of global warming. A test was done right after 9-11 while commercial and private airplanes were grounded. If I remember it right, the contrails reflect a significant part of solar energy back into space. Just search Wikipedia for contrails and you the idea. Deviation in temperature was almost 2 degrees Celsius.
freddytuber 3 years ago
yeah i did a project on it its called global dimming, the contrails did block their own sunlight while as well the smoke and exhaust in the clouds help make bigger clouds and making a different sized water droplet with reflected more sunlight than normal
sb6lb3 2 years ago
Hydrogen is not a viable alternative without free solar energy to produce it. It takes too much energy to produce hydrogen. Why wouldn't you just use a battery to store the energy directly? Why convert it to hydrogen then convert it back to electrical energy with the help of a fuel cell? Right now hydrogen is made from natural gas! To extract water from air to make hydrogen, you need even more energy to do that. About 20 times the energy you can use after all conversions. Hydrogen=DEAD END!
freddytuber 3 years ago
The electrolysis used to convert water to hydrogen is 70% efficient, it is then stored in a metal hydride with no loss using a hydrostatic column. When it is extracted, the fuel cell uses it at 50% - 60% efficiency, which is increasing by the day.
Batteries use chemicals that are heavy and extremely corrosive. Fuel cells are not heavy nor corrosive. Batteries do not last but about 300 recharges, fuel cells last 5000 uses.
SpecialAgentBob1234 3 years ago