Guys: Stop making yourselves sound stupider than you have already. The women you're all bashing is a better writer, by all accounts, than Vonnegut (who is mostly popular because of his views). I agree with both of them, or to put it differently, they're both speaking from limited perspectives.
There isn't different ways of looking at history. You can't look at one thing while ignoring another. You can't look at all the happy family moments in history while being completely ignorant to war and all of the destruction humans have caused. I am not simply defending Kurt, but I'm sure many would agree that he loves humanity just as much as anyone. He just despises the terrible things it does.
oh please women no good at science.. please Women WOMBMEN are science. Men can't bleed for 3 days and still live to tell about it. They can't grow another human being inside their body for 9 months and then be able to BE. Men cannot multi task. Men do not produce milk to feed babies. i mean to say we are not good at science when WE are SCIENCE, Mystery, Procreation. Kurt can go PHUCK himself if he thinks WE are Not Science and also Snake Charmers
@WonderWomanFan4life Yeah, you didn't get the joke. She was interjecting with sexist garbage, making a foolish claim about all men. Kurt responded in kind with his own sarcastic generalization about women.
He is foolish. He gave a 'world view', which, was particular to men and was as such a male world view. She interrupted him for more perspective and to underline how arrogant and silly he was being. She's quite the soft touch but one cannot dismiss what one hasn't spent any great deal of time trying to understand.
She was a soft touch? She offered more perspective? Kurt Vonnegut is foolish? Pangalacticgargleblaster? Sometimes a person's understanding of social equity and the nature of the human condition is so convoluted words like stupid or foolish just do not suffice. You, madam, must be a feminist.
@tuxy56 If you are indeed a man with fully developed male gonads, which is doubtful, I'm unfortunately going to have to ask you to relinquish your testicles at the nearest area of male congregation. This may be a bar, firing range, or the latest showing of Die Hard at your local cinema. In lieu of relinquishment of testicular assets you could kill yourself, as you clearly have no place on my great planet. Also, it would please me greatly if you would go fuck yourself or the nearest horse.
@lovetownsend well probably not the longest, but it oughta be the widest. according to the man himself his penis was three inches long and five inches in diameter.
impressive compared to that bitch. lol tho i dont know her book, are they good? my grandmother said that lady just is stuck up and writes everything about her life down in her books thinking there so high great and wonderful.
I'm so glad Vonnegut hit back so hard... What an immature, rude way to voice an opinion. I don't necessarily disagree with Oates (war and violence would still exist, but in a very different sort of way), but who the hell says it by interrupting someone mid-sentence when it had nothing to do with the discussion at hand!? It would be different if the moderator asked, "Would bad things still exist with a planet inhabited by women?" But he didn't. So how about we not be so rude and self-serving?
That was a brilliant counterpoint by Vonnegut used to illustrate to Joyce that just how women largely have not been given the opportunity to succeed science, they also haven't had the opportunity to accumulate power start wars.
i have male sex organs, but i do believe women are the superior sex.
but with that superior sex i think women should have to 'man' up to the responsibilities with it. and if women are the answer to war. for fucks sake, please, end it. I'm not being sarcastic. please, by all means, end war. please.
Wow, such angry responses. You do realize that people are allowed to make mistakes once in a while? It's a disgrace to Vonnegut to have supporters with such a lack of respect, despite whether the object of attack is making a wrong statement or not.
Women aren't good at science? While I admire Vonnegut, women have not been allowed to do well at science. Rosalind Franklin and Mary Anning had their ideas stolen by male scientists. Marie Curie was one of the first women to have her advancements acknowledged, not the first to do anything.
Also, the Crowley (2001) psychological study shows that parents don't encourage their daughters in science as much as their sons. I say again, women have not been allowed to excel in math and science.
@angrymurmurs You are misinterpreting Vonnegut's sarcasm as his belief. He said it to prod Joyce, who interrupted him with a self-indulgent comment about sexism.
so most difference is fear of death!! ..most male die 4 his idea ...most females just trying to survive... maybe its stupid of male..maybe its genetic...but to be fair , female avoiding of danger ..is weaknes...to give respect ..not every girl is like that..but brave girl are minority...if U girls will be be brave ...world could be change! that way i understand short sarcastic message from mr.KURT.over
sad but true ..if Women are so peace lover - they should change the world 4 better ...why this not happened...?
they have a povver of reproduceing !! Kurt said ...Just stop to reproduce ..men's are weak ..without the women?!?! man's can't reproduce with other man...but silly feminist forceing their FEAR and weakness of their own to whole of man sex ....so wine is on both sides END
did this moron seriously interrupt kurt vonnegut to interject sexist bullshit? if women had the power that men had they would do just as much awful stuff.
If Kurt had brought up some great things (some) men had achieved, would Oates have said, "Behind every great man, there's a woman?" Yeah, she would have-- in an instant. Only when the deed is bad does she deny her gender had anything to do with it.
In every part of this full interview, Joyce seems to be unable to grasp the context of the conversation. Although, it is comforting to know that there are kind and peaceful women who stay home knitting and sending care packages while their husbands and sons are off murdering throughout human history.
"woman are no good at science...........they discovered that in Harvard." Got to love Kurt Vonnegut, such a pristine figure in the literary world. R.I.P
wtf is Oates on about? "while the wars are being waged somebody's back home knitting..."
What?
no. men destroy everything. women don't do anything. oh wait, they knit. but apart from that women don't do anything. men at least build shit when they're not destroying shit. but overall it's a hopeless picture of destruction by males, nothing from females, and intermittent building by males. vonnegut is right.
@TheIllestVillain Seriously. Look at all the inventions out there. Look around your room. How many of those devices were invented by women? I'm sorry to put it this way, but Vonnegut is right. Women are no good at science. They probably did discover that at Harvard.
@TheIllestVillain What didn't I understand? Quotations: "Destruction from males, nothing from females," and, "men at least build shit." How is my commentary about how women do not build shit out of place? It's harmonious and a perfect follow up to what you said. What are you on about, here?
I guess if you take a long look every stupid thing a man does is a sort of response to a woman's need, So in the end all wars are fought for women and children.
Otherwise, shut your mouth and continue to drink yourself into a stupor on your smelly couch in your trailer while women are out there making better lives for themselves with distinguished careers.
Well, FatBoy... it seems you've failed to comprehend the difference between sharing differences of opinion and "rhetoric". Clearly, there was no feminist rhetoric implied in the statement you so rudely butted your nose into. Here's a tip: Calling a woman a bitch & cumbucket and instructing her to make your fat ass a sandwich isn't really all that funny. If you're going to intrude on an intellectual conversation, at least offer something intellectual to debate...
What all these comments are showing in American White maisntream regarding to intellectual, pedagogic, and liteary education is: Hello Houston , you got a problem.. NASA is going to rescue to preserve the human species in an outspace station....
I recently saw a TED talk by Steven Pinker where he revealed that human morality rate is dropping drastically over time, even including the two world wars and everything else, the 20th century was the leat violent of our entire history by a long long way. So Kurt is not up to speed really with his black black vision of humanity.
Nonetheless, when cavemen have stones and we have ever-increasing destructive potential (nuclear, biological, chemical tools), there is great reason for concern. Humans are children playing with toys they are not grown enough yet to use properly.
What sex, making up at least fifty percent of the population (and supposedly intelligent and capable, according to feminists), was complicit in our violent history?
Whenever I shake my head in wonder or despair at how badly we are capable of behaving, I think about our hard wiring. The wiring has us make snap judgments (bringing us to bias & prejudice) or be violent or selfish, all things that were necessary for survival on the ancient plains. Then I remember that we are very young, as a species, and I remember to hope for the future.
I disagree with Vonnegut, but blaming men for all wars and all violence? That's bias and prejudiced. Feminism is yet another burden that men have to shoulder, just as they have held up the burden of civilization for centuries with their work, their sacrifices, and their dedication to protecting and maintaining their families. And they die earlier, do all the manual labor and are more likely to kill themselves. Joyce Carol Oates may write some fine novels, but as a philosopher, she's a dumbbell.
Your comments are very ignorant. Feminism is a burden that men have to shoulder? Are you serious? Are you talking about all feminism throughout the history of this country, or are you simply assuming that it is not needed in the present time? I would disagree with either, but obviously more with the former. I guess I shouldn't expect an answer, since your post is from 2 years ago. I hope you have learned something about women's history in that time.
shut the fuck up and get back into the kitchen and make me a sandwich you dumb bitch. If women want to to something good for the country then make a delicious thanksgiving dinner whenever a man tells you to
and i bet you have no trouble getting a man with your feminist rhetoric. if youre married i feel sorry for your husband having to put up with your shit, if youre my wife i would beat you till you got your place right
Seeing as how men are much much stronger and more violent and physically dominant than women, and also how until recently women played no role in politics, and how men did not "consult" with women before waging war, I would say that the idea that women are complicit in our violent history is false, and without a shred of evidence to support it.
how about the wives of all those men, who were supposedly more violent than their wives, that stood by those men and gave birth to the next generation?
I think it's ridiculous to be "against" or "for" one gender when both are fundamentally of equal importance to keep us alive.
Guys: Stop making yourselves sound stupider than you have already. The women you're all bashing is a better writer, by all accounts, than Vonnegut (who is mostly popular because of his views). I agree with both of them, or to put it differently, they're both speaking from limited perspectives.
dionusos2 1 month ago
@dionusos2 stop making yourself sound stupider than you have already by using the plural [women] to describe a single person.
realtheloniuscrunk 1 month ago
@realtheloniuscrunk Congratulations. You found a typo. I couldn't have asked for a more engaging response.
dionusos2 1 month ago
@dionusos2 It's always exciting when someone takes it upon themselves to do the job on Microsoft Word. It makes me feel at home. (lol)
Bayplaces 2 weeks ago
There isn't different ways of looking at history. You can't look at one thing while ignoring another. You can't look at all the happy family moments in history while being completely ignorant to war and all of the destruction humans have caused. I am not simply defending Kurt, but I'm sure many would agree that he loves humanity just as much as anyone. He just despises the terrible things it does.
SuperAxel68 2 months ago
FACE. That's what you get for interrupting Kurt Vonnegut.
thazzchair 3 months ago
Sarcastic and ironic, like his books.
Johndavis4542 3 months ago
war is what men do to get away from their women
graudrakon 4 months ago
oh please women no good at science.. please Women WOMBMEN are science. Men can't bleed for 3 days and still live to tell about it. They can't grow another human being inside their body for 9 months and then be able to BE. Men cannot multi task. Men do not produce milk to feed babies. i mean to say we are not good at science when WE are SCIENCE, Mystery, Procreation. Kurt can go PHUCK himself if he thinks WE are Not Science and also Snake Charmers
WonderWomanFan4life 5 months ago
@WonderWomanFan4life Yeah, you didn't get the joke. She was interjecting with sexist garbage, making a foolish claim about all men. Kurt responded in kind with his own sarcastic generalization about women.
rdeem25 4 months ago 3
@rdeem25
ahhhh yeah now thats funny. lol thanks for clarifying
WonderWomanFan4life 4 months ago
Women are no good at science.
FerolaJ 5 months ago
I wonder how nice the knitting female Nazi prison camp guards did was, I'm sure it must have cheered their victims mightily.
mightypon 6 months ago
He is foolish. He gave a 'world view', which, was particular to men and was as such a male world view. She interrupted him for more perspective and to underline how arrogant and silly he was being. She's quite the soft touch but one cannot dismiss what one hasn't spent any great deal of time trying to understand.
tuxy56 6 months ago
@tuxy56
She was a soft touch? She offered more perspective? Kurt Vonnegut is foolish? Pangalacticgargleblaster? Sometimes a person's understanding of social equity and the nature of the human condition is so convoluted words like stupid or foolish just do not suffice. You, madam, must be a feminist.
FerolaJ 5 months ago
@FerolaJ I am a man; irony much? Structure your paragraphs you child.
tuxy56 5 months ago
@tuxy56 If you are indeed a man with fully developed male gonads, which is doubtful, I'm unfortunately going to have to ask you to relinquish your testicles at the nearest area of male congregation. This may be a bar, firing range, or the latest showing of Die Hard at your local cinema. In lieu of relinquishment of testicular assets you could kill yourself, as you clearly have no place on my great planet. Also, it would please me greatly if you would go fuck yourself or the nearest horse.
FerolaJ 5 months ago
Hahahah i love how Kurt just owns that bitch, and continues his idea.
TwoWhiteJawns 6 months ago
kurt...dude...your the man with the biggest cock in the house lol
lovetownsend 7 months ago
@lovetownsend well probably not the longest, but it oughta be the widest. according to the man himself his penis was three inches long and five inches in diameter.
Freewheelin9 7 months ago
@Freewheelin9
impressive compared to that bitch. lol tho i dont know her book, are they good? my grandmother said that lady just is stuck up and writes everything about her life down in her books thinking there so high great and wonderful.
lovetownsend 6 months ago
We're running ourselves into the ground, there's no other way of looking at it
BIGBROTHERXXII 7 months ago
I'm so glad Vonnegut hit back so hard... What an immature, rude way to voice an opinion. I don't necessarily disagree with Oates (war and violence would still exist, but in a very different sort of way), but who the hell says it by interrupting someone mid-sentence when it had nothing to do with the discussion at hand!? It would be different if the moderator asked, "Would bad things still exist with a planet inhabited by women?" But he didn't. So how about we not be so rude and self-serving?
mynameisandycostello 7 months ago
Lesson Don't interrupt vonnegut
acehole7 7 months ago
Comment removed
acehole7 7 months ago
Masterful response, Mr. Vonnegut!
ocerinland 7 months ago
I love how he jokes women are no good at science and she gets so mad.
iowntwocats 7 months ago
That was a brilliant counterpoint by Vonnegut used to illustrate to Joyce that just how women largely have not been given the opportunity to succeed science, they also haven't had the opportunity to accumulate power start wars.
sarosewater 8 months ago
What a dumb cunt. There is one history and it is the history of human kind. Males are not evil any more than women are manipulative whores.
Thank God that Kurt shut this bitch up with a good response.
bilgewater79 8 months ago
i have male sex organs, but i do believe women are the superior sex.
but with that superior sex i think women should have to 'man' up to the responsibilities with it. and if women are the answer to war. for fucks sake, please, end it. I'm not being sarcastic. please, by all means, end war. please.
funk45750 8 months ago
he shut that woman up real quick like
drofnoise555 9 months ago
Wow, such angry responses. You do realize that people are allowed to make mistakes once in a while? It's a disgrace to Vonnegut to have supporters with such a lack of respect, despite whether the object of attack is making a wrong statement or not.
shootpeas 9 months ago
I want to see her write a 400 page novel about someone knitting and sending care packages. Let's see how much it sells.
tapman16 9 months ago 3
Women aren't good at science? While I admire Vonnegut, women have not been allowed to do well at science. Rosalind Franklin and Mary Anning had their ideas stolen by male scientists. Marie Curie was one of the first women to have her advancements acknowledged, not the first to do anything.
Also, the Crowley (2001) psychological study shows that parents don't encourage their daughters in science as much as their sons. I say again, women have not been allowed to excel in math and science.
angrymurmurs 9 months ago
@angrymurmurs You are misinterpreting Vonnegut's sarcasm as his belief. He said it to prod Joyce, who interrupted him with a self-indulgent comment about sexism.
TheFoundingFather 9 months ago 6
I never knew Joyce Carol Oates was a stupid cunt.
You learn something new every day.
LeLimeLine 9 months ago 2
@LeLimeLine a "stupid cunt" who will be remembered for generations while you'll be remembered for your contribution to fertilizer
dionusos2 1 month ago
Comment removed
LeLimeLine 9 months ago
Why is vonnegut even next to these simpletons?
billyg89 9 months ago 3
Go VONNEGUT!
malot 10 months ago
That Old lady just got punked hardcore by Vonnegut
Sycamorai 10 months ago
who are all these dumbfucks around kurt vonnegut anyway?
mairug 10 months ago
Women in the workplace behaive like complete bitches.
MrZakatista 11 months ago
Poor Jennifer. So completely outclassed by her older and more thoughtful and experienced peers.
reillypie 1 year ago
damn feminist
pvcaseyg 1 year ago
so most difference is fear of death!! ..most male die 4 his idea ...most females just trying to survive... maybe its stupid of male..maybe its genetic...but to be fair , female avoiding of danger ..is weaknes...to give respect ..not every girl is like that..but brave girl are minority...if U girls will be be brave ...world could be change! that way i understand short sarcastic message from mr.KURT.over
1stopX 1 year ago
sad but true ..if Women are so peace lover - they should change the world 4 better ...why this not happened...?
they have a povver of reproduceing !! Kurt said ...Just stop to reproduce ..men's are weak ..without the women?!?! man's can't reproduce with other man...but silly feminist forceing their FEAR and weakness of their own to whole of man sex ....so wine is on both sides END
1stopX 1 year ago
@1stopX if womwn are so evolved, hom come they are so impressed with shiny things(diamonds)?
numerrita 1 year ago 2
did this moron seriously interrupt kurt vonnegut to interject sexist bullshit? if women had the power that men had they would do just as much awful stuff.
realtheloniuscrunk 1 year ago 46
@realtheloniuscrunk That's Joyce Carol Oates. I wouldn't be so hasty to call her a moron.
The other woman, though, she's a chick lit writer that accidentally wandered on stage. Go nuts.
dstarr5d 7 months ago
@realtheloniuscrunk He responded with a sexist remark. And this "idiot" is one of the best and most prolific American writers of our time.
dionusos2 1 month ago
YEEE vonnegut kicks ass
fantaccione 1 year ago 2
Vonnegut. Yeah you did.
doolin11 1 year ago
"The public sucks." - George Carlin
MrZebraZombie 1 year ago
Comment removed
MrZebraZombie 1 year ago
If Kurt had brought up some great things (some) men had achieved, would Oates have said, "Behind every great man, there's a woman?" Yeah, she would have-- in an instant. Only when the deed is bad does she deny her gender had anything to do with it.
cshubs 1 year ago 5
In every part of this full interview, Joyce seems to be unable to grasp the context of the conversation. Although, it is comforting to know that there are kind and peaceful women who stay home knitting and sending care packages while their husbands and sons are off murdering throughout human history.
mangograss 1 year ago 2
"woman are no good at science...........they discovered that in Harvard." Got to love Kurt Vonnegut, such a pristine figure in the literary world. R.I.P
cKRONIC 1 year ago 6
FATALITY!!!!!
R.I.P. Kurt
Manatizzle89 1 year ago
If Jack Patton heard it he would have wanted to laugh like hell!
vadikyan 1 year ago
ehhhhehe you should be sorry.
universallance 2 years ago
wooaww=D
women are no good at science! LMAO
come Onn...
love the guy though
devilndisguise666 2 years ago
wtf is Oates on about? "while the wars are being waged somebody's back home knitting..."
What?
no. men destroy everything. women don't do anything. oh wait, they knit. but apart from that women don't do anything. men at least build shit when they're not destroying shit. but overall it's a hopeless picture of destruction by males, nothing from females, and intermittent building by males. vonnegut is right.
TheIllestVillain 2 years ago 6
@TheIllestVillain Seriously. Look at all the inventions out there. Look around your room. How many of those devices were invented by women? I'm sorry to put it this way, but Vonnegut is right. Women are no good at science. They probably did discover that at Harvard.
Sviolinist 1 year ago
@Sviolinist i don't think you understood my comment... Read it again.
TheIllestVillain 1 year ago
@TheIllestVillain What didn't I understand? Quotations: "Destruction from males, nothing from females," and, "men at least build shit." How is my commentary about how women do not build shit out of place? It's harmonious and a perfect follow up to what you said. What are you on about, here?
Sviolinist 1 year ago
I guess if you take a long look every stupid thing a man does is a sort of response to a woman's need, So in the end all wars are fought for women and children.
bloemetjen 2 years ago 7
@bloemetjen It's a children's crusade!
Bayplaces 2 weeks ago
Otherwise, shut your mouth and continue to drink yourself into a stupor on your smelly couch in your trailer while women are out there making better lives for themselves with distinguished careers.
xMisscloveRx 2 years ago
Well, FatBoy... it seems you've failed to comprehend the difference between sharing differences of opinion and "rhetoric". Clearly, there was no feminist rhetoric implied in the statement you so rudely butted your nose into. Here's a tip: Calling a woman a bitch & cumbucket and instructing her to make your fat ass a sandwich isn't really all that funny. If you're going to intrude on an intellectual conversation, at least offer something intellectual to debate...
xMisscloveRx 2 years ago
What all these comments are showing in American White maisntream regarding to intellectual, pedagogic, and liteary education is: Hello Houston , you got a problem.. NASA is going to rescue to preserve the human species in an outspace station....
Harikrishnalove 2 years ago
I recently saw a TED talk by Steven Pinker where he revealed that human morality rate is dropping drastically over time, even including the two world wars and everything else, the 20th century was the leat violent of our entire history by a long long way. So Kurt is not up to speed really with his black black vision of humanity.
andysnadden 3 years ago
well, faith in humanity and our reason has varied throughout the entire history of man... why would our age be any different?
PictureOnAWall 2 years ago
Nonetheless, when cavemen have stones and we have ever-increasing destructive potential (nuclear, biological, chemical tools), there is great reason for concern. Humans are children playing with toys they are not grown enough yet to use properly.
rags847 2 years ago
Kurt and Joyce going at it...the sexes and history.....what a priceless exchange. Colin's nudges are just right.
bratneypiv 3 years ago
Steve Almond tells a slightly different version of this in his book, (Not that You Asked). (Not that I blame him.)
annascrilliams 4 years ago 2
What sex, making up at least fifty percent of the population (and supposedly intelligent and capable, according to feminists), was complicit in our violent history?
johnbortion 4 years ago
Whenever I shake my head in wonder or despair at how badly we are capable of behaving, I think about our hard wiring. The wiring has us make snap judgments (bringing us to bias & prejudice) or be violent or selfish, all things that were necessary for survival on the ancient plains. Then I remember that we are very young, as a species, and I remember to hope for the future.
meredithjustice 4 years ago 6
I disagree with Vonnegut, but blaming men for all wars and all violence? That's bias and prejudiced. Feminism is yet another burden that men have to shoulder, just as they have held up the burden of civilization for centuries with their work, their sacrifices, and their dedication to protecting and maintaining their families. And they die earlier, do all the manual labor and are more likely to kill themselves. Joyce Carol Oates may write some fine novels, but as a philosopher, she's a dumbbell.
johnbortion 4 years ago
how is femimism a burden
pabloburton 4 years ago 2
Your comments are very ignorant. Feminism is a burden that men have to shoulder? Are you serious? Are you talking about all feminism throughout the history of this country, or are you simply assuming that it is not needed in the present time? I would disagree with either, but obviously more with the former. I guess I shouldn't expect an answer, since your post is from 2 years ago. I hope you have learned something about women's history in that time.
phoenixbird18 2 years ago
shut the fuck up and get back into the kitchen and make me a sandwich you dumb bitch. If women want to to something good for the country then make a delicious thanksgiving dinner whenever a man tells you to
NoDiceFatBoy 2 years ago
That's a good one. Congratulations.
phoenixbird18 2 years ago
where's my sandwich, cumbucket
NoDiceFatBoy 2 years ago
I bet the ladies just love you. You're very skillful in debate. Where did you go to college?
phoenixbird18 2 years ago
and i bet you have no trouble getting a man with your feminist rhetoric. if youre married i feel sorry for your husband having to put up with your shit, if youre my wife i would beat you till you got your place right
NoDiceFatBoy 2 years ago
Oh, you are so sweet.
phoenixbird18 2 years ago
Seeing as how men are much much stronger and more violent and physically dominant than women, and also how until recently women played no role in politics, and how men did not "consult" with women before waging war, I would say that the idea that women are complicit in our violent history is false, and without a shred of evidence to support it.
andysnadden 3 years ago
how about the wives of all those men, who were supposedly more violent than their wives, that stood by those men and gave birth to the next generation?
I think it's ridiculous to be "against" or "for" one gender when both are fundamentally of equal importance to keep us alive.
PictureOnAWall 2 years ago 35
@PictureOnAWall
Remember the Tralfamadorians though.. there are more than just two sexes responsible for the fourth dimensional propagation of the human species
robman8855 5 months ago
Love love love what he had to say. What a funny man.
simonnewtboy 4 years ago 2