Sense many things when talking about the death of insanity, or the insanity of death; 2 different meanings leading back to a whole. In finding things you have retalliated against the whole 2 which you have started. The whole you come back 2 is still the same and does not change; it is another perception either insane or dead. You can look at many things in this and still come back to any compensation of insanity or death. The meaning you pull out of it and the energy that leads you (will2power)?
disregard my last comment if you like because i watched your videos. you obviously believe in positive and negative forces, you just hate FACISM. excellent. i was mistaken about you. you r just not connected with your spirit. you r very cerebral and not at all spiritual. fine. you understand the wholeness of existence but you refuse to admit there are positive and negative forces even though u r devoted to positivity. u r half way their. look past the physical to know the truth.
well I will try one more attempt to reconcile. someone I know was murdered last night in my neighborhood. it doesnt matter why, but it happend. this action can be taken different ways. positively or negatively. One can take it as a call to stop violence and another can take it as a reason to do more. now i can either beleive that one route is constructive n the other is destructive, OR i could say their is no difference because they r both experience. or is one existence (+) and the other (-)?
I can't explore this properly in this medium, however: That someone was murdered is a fact. The history is relevant, what brought this to be, the community in which it took place, the actions of many which brought it to such a point. It is inevitably going to be received and responded to in many ways. In some it will cause hatred and a desire for revenge. In others it will cause fear. In more pain at the loss of a loved one. In others a desire to change things for the better, to see it as (more)
a wake up call, an opportunity for the community to look at what isn't working and how it might be resolved, to learn and to grow. If the motivating force is love then all will benefit. If it isn't it will fragment. It's not about anything goes, at all. It's about being able to see beyond a simple this or that, where one is all wrong and the other all right.
Incidentally, I'm sorry this has happened. It must be very disturbing.
It was just a discussion really. Sure we ARE beyond good and evil. I was just pointing out that darkness is different from light. See, my thing is I am a bit confused about the new age teachings. If you understand that a sick person needs a healer and vice versa, do you understand that the sick person is sick and the healer is a healer. Yes the two a One but it is their contrast which give them life. Don't I have a choice to be a healer or sick, or are you saying be both? can I self determine?
you fail to see that for thelemites Te spirt is all we are. The flesh (material world) is the crown of the spirt. we make no difference between any one thing and any other thing because this causes division and hurt. we re all individuals so this is just how I see it. I expect no one to seething like me, I accept all as my brother
my point is that a negative person or action can hurt people. If you go around throwing dirt on others beauty it is not positive. Sure If I love I will not turn my back on this negative person, but I do not need to let a cancer fester. I surely agree with you to love all. That is why I fear none, but my experience has been that there are forces out here that do not love. I still love them but you have to be serious about what you are dealing with. Loving to hate is not love at all is it thelmite
no one is beyond good and evil, they both exist. i am a teacher of truth and a student of rightousness. it is demonic to deny that their is negativity within this universe. your lies corrupt. you rest your soul is in pergatory. u see no difference between creation and destruction then you tell me not to physically discipline children. you are being a hypocrite by having an opinion. you are not a force of anything because you don't even know the difference between right and wrong. crowley=(
i don't know why your judging me. i was simply pointing out there are destructive and creative forces. some people create energy while others feed on it. i was building upon what u were sayin not indoctrinating you with my beleifs. I am not even religious. in the biblical story of Jesus Christ his crucifiction was a sign for those who could not bear witness to his message of love and eternity in his life time.
I'm not judging you. You told me I needed to learn, I was expressing in a more comprehensive way what I meant. How can I judge you? I don't know you. Judgement requires a belief in duality anyway. But I only have your words on which to go. Creation and destruction are of course a spectrum, and while I agree there are some who are more one than the other, we all contain both. Love and eternity are beyond duality, wouldn't you agree? That's the heart of the matter.
only existence or God are beyond duality. you must choose to be a positive or a negative force. its clear you desire to be positive on a physical level but you have to become positive in the wholness of yourself
You're preaching at me again. I am a force for totality, wholeness, not one end of an imaginary spectrum or another. You don't understand me. I've tried to explain. Lets leave it there. Perhaps if you genuinely wish to understand me rather than tell me what to do you could watch more of my videos. I see the world differently from you. That doesn't make one of us wrong.
learn the difference between creative and destructive forces. books and discourse can guide you but you can only understand the true meanin of God within yourself. Just look at the teachings of the Christ. He was a law breaker who was viewed as immoral by his contemporaries who studied in the synagoge. he healed a blind man on the sabbath and was condemed to death for it. he responded to them, "how could I be breakin God's law if I am doing good?" Please recognize that duality is real
So you're saying Jesus did wrong? Jesus was acting according to Gods wishes, surely. Duality is man made, it is fantasy. There is no absolute good or evil. There are unique situations. Was Jesus being crucified good or evil? If he had not been would you still consider yourself saved, even though it was done based upon a lie, so evil by your standards? Just because you are unable to see beyond duality does not mean it is real. That doesn't mean all acts are acceptable of course.
there is a difference between good and bad. it is not written in a book, it is written in your heart. you know when you did right and wrong. the physical cannot determine the difference between the two, only the spirit, God, the truth can do this. it is quite possible to do wrong to someone. you must know how to communicate in any situation. some kids need a beating others don't, only the truth of the situation can determine this. you can choose to listen to the truth or listen to yourself
No kids need beating. Children need loving and educating, enabling to understand what works and what doesn't, respect for others and themselves, to assess things rather than see adults as the enemy because they exert unreasoned power over them, tell them they hurt them in the name of right. Hypocrisy is not 'right'.
u discuss the relativity of right and wrong and yet you missed out on my point. i am truley sorry if i offended you with the rawness of my comments. My personal opinion is that i appreciated some of the ass whoopins my father gave me. but that is my own experience. sometimes you need to get burnt so you'll know not to play with fire. otherwise you might mess around and burn the house down. i have a friend who lost both his parents because his brother liked candles. please wittness the meaning
OK, I understand what you say. However, I hope you can also acknowledge that you ( and your friend) could have been taught the same lesson in a loving way, through appreciation and understanding of what fire can do. Maybe then your friend might not have lost his/her parents (and I'm sorry about that, it must have been terrible for them). There are many ways to teach and to learn.
Its fine, and of course I can acknowledge it. and I think you just acknowledged that this was a negative lesson. thus you are acknoledging that there is a clear difference between positive and negative. unfortunatly this difference is often clouded by ambitious men who attempt to steal the light of God aka the truth as if it were their own.
We may be onto semantics and interpretations now, but it was a lesson. All lessons are positivee, negative and everything in between. Fire serves a valuable purpose, it's what you do with it that gives it colour. But that aside, I totally agree that ambitious men manipulate to their own ends rather than serve the all, reality, the whole. Yes.
Is it the light that blinds?, or guides? Regardless of how we feel there are certain aspects of existance that we cannot deny, finding the right path is apparently well lit, but we still, are all in and end up in at the same place with the same dry mouth.
Below an account of a real earthly experiance that i quite enjoyed because of the unexceptional circumstances.
I was riding my bicycle the other night through a very dark place that i am not unfamiliar with, but my front light was out so i knew it was gonna be tricky as its up but mostly downhill with a lot of bends i found myself touching the brakes a lot more often than i normally would to fathom which direction the bends in the road went, its a scenic route by day with pleasent views and at night i found it equally pleasent because of sounds that i guess in the day rarely seem as enticing.
However the sounds alone wouldnt guide me home so i became much more cautious and gathered the glint from the reflection in the worn tarmac, my recollection then additional helped. I enjoyed it more than most outings and eventually although not as speedy, found my way home, or at least to roads that were lit and gave me time to think about which way i would then go to get.
Excellent example. If we were able to walk through life with this kind of awareness making choices based upon all our senses without assumptions we could not only get beyond a simplistic and unrealistic formula but be so much more alive.
Ones own fortitude in this day can be a very difficult thing to attain or explain but it would seem never within embarkation especially when the evaluation of seems so radical or maybe even generalized to meet modern needs or brutally said, desires?
in case of violence a charismatic person like jesus could interfere and calm down the perpetrator and the victim into resolvement of tensions.
but a weak person will simply be another victim.
i'm afraid there is no model of how to behave exept that, when we approach with compassion, we have to accept that we may fail and no justice or resolving may happen.
What is weak? Sometimes the appearance of weakness is actually a strength. What is failure? A mistake? Pain? Injustice? Can apparent failure become success through learning, growth, increased understanding? These words and concepts used in a dualistic fashion tend to become a catch 22, a circular logic which binds. But when everything is viewed as an opportunity those chains are broken.
I don't personally see a dichotomy. Sometimes a passive response is needed, other times an active one, but there may be numerous possibilities within those. There is no formula to work to beyond duality. It must be our responsibility to learn the skills to weigh those options and make choices. Rarely do we make a choice which is all right or all wrong. Love can contain anything and all. Sometimes rules complement that and others work against it, I'll still follow love.
Ha! I just noticed I had fell asleep at my computer last night leaning on my ''='' key. Now I have a document with 100s of ''='' on it. Oh, it regards to numerical importance. e world is divided up with numerous numerical values. 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, and so on. It's nature. It's all good. 8-)
Ooh, I managed to trace the Hafiz - ghazal #243 in Afshar (ed.), Tehran, 1348 (~1969). Shame so much is (unavoidably) lost in translation, including metre and rhyme.
But I haven't a hope with the unfamiliar bit of Jalal ud-Din sans hint. Masnavi & Kulliyat-e Shams are 3 & 10 weighty volumes. I daren't even call him Rumi nowadays as it merely promotes dichotomy with the Balkhi crew.
Thanks for the reminder that humanity has been there, thought that. I've not done much more than buy the T-shirt.
A rose by any other name....He ran through the streets spouting all this. I'm sure he wouldn't mind my lack of reference.
'Thanks for the reminder that humanity has been there, thought that. I've not done much more than buy the T-shirt'
I'm sure you have. We all have a part to play, surely. What I find interesting is that though all these very different philosophies have much the same core mankind so often comprehensively distorts them to their own ends, missing the true essence.
I watched this three times before I responded...I want to agree with you...But I find your conception of "morality" to be problematic. If all morality is unconditional, what then stops the right of the 'superior' to rule over the 'inferior'. Or to simply equate morality with say good = pleasure and bad = pain? Even if we all conceded that all morality, that is all 'good' and 'bad' are subjective, aren't we still left with the necessity of empathetic action being preferred to psychopathology? 5*s
In a way you exemplify the difficulty of dualistic thinking here. Who is superior or inferior? Can there ever be a definitive good or bad and how can pleasure and pain ever be separated? The whole concept of morality is problematic, and which of us can realistically claim adequate objectivity to postulate what might be a definitive morality? You make an important point: empathy in each situation can help considerably in examining the many factors present, whatever the situation.
If you don't like the superior/inferior...Try weak and strong....AND the obvious difference between pleasure and pain probably doesn't need further explication...BUT if you just follow that idea, you might soon arrive at the 'ethics' of the Marques de Sade....Surely that's not exactly what you had in mind, right?
But that's my point, I don't think anything can be categorised so simply. There is a range, a spectrum, a complexity of factors in absolutely everything. Sometimes those who appear strong are actually the weakest of all trying to hide it. Sometimes pain brings great gifts. Those who imagine they are superior are often anything but. Appearances belie facts so often, reality goes way beyond this or that, always. It might be pleasing if life were so simple but it isn't.
Yes, I agree if a dialectic becomes rigid dogmatic, tha's terrible. BUT if we go too far the other way, for example, if we simply say the only rule is that there are no rules, we are descending into some very slippery territory. Alistair Crowley's first law is an example. It came from his 'cosmology' and was based on François Rabelais' ideas about the sovereignty of Will: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." but it was really most often just license. So too was much of what the...
...the work of the Marques de Sade...waht is the outcome in something like his 2120 Days of Sodom" if you allow absolutely no rule making? In case you don't remember exactly, 120 Days of Sodom is the story of how a number of debouched French noblemen tortured a teenage girls to death in hideous ways while listen to stories told by an old prostitute. A horrible example, I know, and I only bring it up here because if there are no options for sanctions, all civilized behavior can dissolve.
Without wisdom and responsibility no system can work, even a no system system. The 'morality' we are expected to work within produces at least as many atrocities as a more realistic and honest in the moment response would do. Will requires more than just doing whatever you feel like, since it involves an awareness of consequences upon the self. Act with cruelty or lack of thought towards others and you set yourself up for like to be returned. There is a huge danger in looking at the worst of
I guess my continued misgiving comes from your noble savage or natural man argument a la Rousseau or the ironic Voltaire.Yes, it's true that rigid moralistic systems attempting to impose unthinking codes externally on cultures often result in injustice and atrocities, by the same token complete moral license can result in the same kinds of abuse. I don't see anything in what you've said that would encourage THINKING and UNDERSTANDING of these complexities in order to avoid them. The Shaw quote
...actually seems to be about this...It isn't as easy as saying, "OK the new rule is that there are no more rules"...because as Shaw is pointing to obliquely, complete freedom is not as easy as it looks and comes with all sorts of endemic problems which is perhaps one of reasons that most men dread it.
Indeed. It's not easy at all, nor am I in any way implying it is. But it doesn't have to be one extreme or another. It requires real awareness, responsibility, a conscious consideration of each situation. Most simply wouldn't want to bother. Or would they? Social control is based upon a slumbering population who are force fed unreal and simplistic morals which keep them unaware of any true reality or sense of personal responsibility and power. I don't see that as preferable or desirable.
"It requires real awareness, responsibility, a conscious consideration of each situation." Exactly...It is just possible that if we could somehow scrape all the sanctions and social controls which, I agree, "tend to create slumbering population who are force fed unreal and simplistic morals" BUT ask yourself what would be the almost certain result of a no rule future. I'm afraid we are flirting with complete chaos and unbridled violence if we don't understand the complexities of absolute freedom
I do understand what you're saying. I don't see any absolutes however. Absolute freedom is really something of an impossibility, and there isn't space to go into the complexities of why here. But I also think there's a danger in assuming mankind will become violent and chaotic when not controlled by a set of fairly arbitrary rules or those who somehow claim the right to choose for everyone. General structures would of course be needed anyway, and as the world stands it would be madness (more)
to suddenly remove any moral codes. I'm not suggesting that. Mankind needs to learn to grow up, take responsibility, understand consequences of actions, and much more. This would take decades if not longer, the ability to examine situations maturely would need to be introduced into schools etc. But whether anything changes or not the facts are that morality is not real in any true sense, there is no absolute wrong or right and it is folly to behave as if there is.
You seem to make more sense than the famous quotes on the right! Of those quote,the one from the Dalai Lama is the most profound and true quote.A very interesting discussion.Thanks.
Without Peace of mind we will fight and find new reasons to keep on fighting and dividing "The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name" from your quote of Lao Tzu, contains the essential to find in myselfs the uniting link not only to others but to all of the Univers I can perceive. They won't be a general consensus on truth just individual realisation. If I just could be as wise as what I know lol! Merci for that well documented video on that human experience and behavior!:-)!
For some reason, this video makes me think about the prequel to RIFTER 1, which is called "The Origin of Alouette" it sounds like a few of the things Principal Mo'Rambi says to his Son, weeks before he ends up the victim of a normal potion *tears*
it doese infact wear off which is why in "the Ris of God" Ridley's Father reappears, but as he was in the prequel -- But, he said "The Rhinemaiden rewarded me for being kind hearted, and s he took away the blidners that he put me under"
We do binary thinking to death in the west. I think it probably goes back to the Greeks and their interest in logic (law of the excluded middle, etc) and categories. Personally, I think it's a bit lazy. :)
Here We Go Again (LoL) Love the four letter word that is feared so much that if spoken will change the way people think about you. I have been work on the very thought in depth with research to back it up. 1 in 5 don't have fear of it. I'll give + - 1 because it came from me. so 1 in 4 then 3 ppl live in fear of the unknown that is a positive that in there head is a negative. with no meaning added behind it. Fear is the wall that most hide behind and the controlling force that moves us.
I'm not completely sure I'm clear on what you're saying here. But I agree many are controlled by fear, especially of the unknown, which love can certainly be. Yet what a shackle that is. I prefer to see fear as the way to go rather than run from.
One of my saying to those who rub me the wrong way.
"I have no enemies, only some freinds in need of help. space is the threat, like the fist that has no room to move is no threat. Love and pain are one in the same and most will never know this as Fact. FEAR, causes space for them to move. So, i say Hug them and maybe they will see the light." its twisted but true and not to be used in a bar rooms. hehehe
it attacked with hate i use love and try to gain the understanding in the hate. they run or puzzle ask why ( i have them then think about there actions ) with fear its easy to hate but LOve stops them dead or dumb founded for a time. like a dear in the head lights (FEAR)
its hard to understand and harder to enplane. its Buddhism, art of war and ac power laws written by tesla. to understand high power in ac current positive a negative and space in moving.
lol Unless you were a dog, in which case both would probably smell rather good. Preferences are wonderful. How tedious life would be if we all liked the same things. :)
I'm glad I keep surprising you. :) Though latterly Crowley lost the plot somewhat and went into self destruct I have a lot of time for the way he perceived life. He and I probably have a fair bit in common in some respects.
tension, like the gnat guy said, can be survival for some. Living life from an observers view is a way, but loses the vitality of spirit if one's heart was left behind.
Discrimination is inherent to rational thinking. Once you start thinking and dissecting reality you automatically lift certain facets and discard or neglect other facets. A philosopher is pushing his or her perspective. Once you start attaching meaning and passion to it you sow seeds for a holy war. On the other hand if we stop it all what will be left? Compassion as the bhuddists promise or just plain apathy?
comment1/3 My point is exactly that in order to lift certain facets you have to assign a higher truthvalue to them. You deny yourself the rest of the truth. Even worse: when you come up with a concept you have invested in it, stopping that thought would make the whole thing meaningless and pointless. People fight for their idea's of good and evil because it's the only thing that gives a embodiment of meaning and purpose. By thinking you have already entered a path of suffering.
comment2/3 So on the other side of the spectrum you have a sort of bhuddistic concept which is solely based on deattachment. This is also why celibacy is so important. Enlightened bhuddists never experience anger. Why? Because it suddenly doesn't exist anymore? It's because they have traded a piece of life for peace and harmony. Exactly as qizalia says in this section.
comment3/3 In between is normal living: turmoil and struggle and joy and happiness failure and succes. People suck at bearing and coping with that. They rather blow stuff up or get verbally sadistic on a 10 year old kid on youtube. It's way easier to go for black and white because otherwise you have to sort of dangle in between in mediocrity. Death to the youtube comment system!
I'm totally with you on the YT comment system. It needs serious punishment.
It's interesting what you say here. I was considering making a video on the marriage of reason and passion. To me it is not an either or. Nothing need be excluded. We are whole beings, and all that being can be embraced. Indeed without it all we cannot be whole.
I believe in that aswell, very much. and I try to achieve it every day. It's just damn hard and in a way fighting against your own nature that's all I'm saying.
That is the great mystery: all is one, yet all appears separate. I agree that life is both simple, yet infinitly complex.
As a metaphor, pure white light is the All, and a prism -- our minds -- divides this up into the color spectrum, simply different frequencies of light.
I have a vid about opposites, Something and Nothing. I think it's built in to the way we perceive. It is difficult for us to remember, that we are all one.
Thanks Steven. It's funny, the metaphor you use here. I have a glass item on my windowsill which makes a rainbow every day if the sun shines. A client was here this evening and it was shining on his face, I used it to illustrate a very similar point. :)
And, unfortunately, an unconscious habit that many, if not most, or even all of us have been brought up to have a tendency to exhibit. I blame it on the labeling of people according to groups.
There is also the tendency to attempt ease of thought, for want of a better phrase. If we considered each word for accuracy before we spoke, while in some senses it might be helpful, it would be cumbersome and much spontaneity and creativity would be lost. I guess it's about finding a balance of some sort.
Sense many things when talking about the death of insanity, or the insanity of death; 2 different meanings leading back to a whole. In finding things you have retalliated against the whole 2 which you have started. The whole you come back 2 is still the same and does not change; it is another perception either insane or dead. You can look at many things in this and still come back to any compensation of insanity or death. The meaning you pull out of it and the energy that leads you (will2power)?
in2dionysus 2 years ago
disregard my last comment if you like because i watched your videos. you obviously believe in positive and negative forces, you just hate FACISM. excellent. i was mistaken about you. you r just not connected with your spirit. you r very cerebral and not at all spiritual. fine. you understand the wholeness of existence but you refuse to admit there are positive and negative forces even though u r devoted to positivity. u r half way their. look past the physical to know the truth.
Elaforestr 3 years ago
I know you mean well, but if you ever do understand who I am you'll be asking me to disregard that comment as well.
Loreleila 3 years ago
well I will try one more attempt to reconcile. someone I know was murdered last night in my neighborhood. it doesnt matter why, but it happend. this action can be taken different ways. positively or negatively. One can take it as a call to stop violence and another can take it as a reason to do more. now i can either beleive that one route is constructive n the other is destructive, OR i could say their is no difference because they r both experience. or is one existence (+) and the other (-)?
Elaforestr 3 years ago
I can't explore this properly in this medium, however: That someone was murdered is a fact. The history is relevant, what brought this to be, the community in which it took place, the actions of many which brought it to such a point. It is inevitably going to be received and responded to in many ways. In some it will cause hatred and a desire for revenge. In others it will cause fear. In more pain at the loss of a loved one. In others a desire to change things for the better, to see it as (more)
Loreleila 3 years ago
a wake up call, an opportunity for the community to look at what isn't working and how it might be resolved, to learn and to grow. If the motivating force is love then all will benefit. If it isn't it will fragment. It's not about anything goes, at all. It's about being able to see beyond a simple this or that, where one is all wrong and the other all right.
Incidentally, I'm sorry this has happened. It must be very disturbing.
Loreleila 3 years ago
"judgment judgment judgment"
Yes, you're obviously enlightened. Do preach some more.
We ARE beyond "good and evil", or any other conceptualization. All reasons are "after the fact."
KosmicCitizen 3 years ago
It was just a discussion really. Sure we ARE beyond good and evil. I was just pointing out that darkness is different from light. See, my thing is I am a bit confused about the new age teachings. If you understand that a sick person needs a healer and vice versa, do you understand that the sick person is sick and the healer is a healer. Yes the two a One but it is their contrast which give them life. Don't I have a choice to be a healer or sick, or are you saying be both? can I self determine?
Elaforestr 3 years ago
you fail to see that for thelemites Te spirt is all we are. The flesh (material world) is the crown of the spirt. we make no difference between any one thing and any other thing because this causes division and hurt. we re all individuals so this is just how I see it. I expect no one to seething like me, I accept all as my brother
93
blindpig93 2 years ago
my point is that a negative person or action can hurt people. If you go around throwing dirt on others beauty it is not positive. Sure If I love I will not turn my back on this negative person, but I do not need to let a cancer fester. I surely agree with you to love all. That is why I fear none, but my experience has been that there are forces out here that do not love. I still love them but you have to be serious about what you are dealing with. Loving to hate is not love at all is it thelmite
Elaforestr 2 years ago
no one is beyond good and evil, they both exist. i am a teacher of truth and a student of rightousness. it is demonic to deny that their is negativity within this universe. your lies corrupt. you rest your soul is in pergatory. u see no difference between creation and destruction then you tell me not to physically discipline children. you are being a hypocrite by having an opinion. you are not a force of anything because you don't even know the difference between right and wrong. crowley=(
Elaforestr 3 years ago
i don't know why your judging me. i was simply pointing out there are destructive and creative forces. some people create energy while others feed on it. i was building upon what u were sayin not indoctrinating you with my beleifs. I am not even religious. in the biblical story of Jesus Christ his crucifiction was a sign for those who could not bear witness to his message of love and eternity in his life time.
Elaforestr 3 years ago
I'm not judging you. You told me I needed to learn, I was expressing in a more comprehensive way what I meant. How can I judge you? I don't know you. Judgement requires a belief in duality anyway. But I only have your words on which to go. Creation and destruction are of course a spectrum, and while I agree there are some who are more one than the other, we all contain both. Love and eternity are beyond duality, wouldn't you agree? That's the heart of the matter.
Loreleila 3 years ago
only existence or God are beyond duality. you must choose to be a positive or a negative force. its clear you desire to be positive on a physical level but you have to become positive in the wholness of yourself
Elaforestr 3 years ago
You're preaching at me again. I am a force for totality, wholeness, not one end of an imaginary spectrum or another. You don't understand me. I've tried to explain. Lets leave it there. Perhaps if you genuinely wish to understand me rather than tell me what to do you could watch more of my videos. I see the world differently from you. That doesn't make one of us wrong.
Loreleila 3 years ago
learn the difference between creative and destructive forces. books and discourse can guide you but you can only understand the true meanin of God within yourself. Just look at the teachings of the Christ. He was a law breaker who was viewed as immoral by his contemporaries who studied in the synagoge. he healed a blind man on the sabbath and was condemed to death for it. he responded to them, "how could I be breakin God's law if I am doing good?" Please recognize that duality is real
Elaforestr 3 years ago
So you're saying Jesus did wrong? Jesus was acting according to Gods wishes, surely. Duality is man made, it is fantasy. There is no absolute good or evil. There are unique situations. Was Jesus being crucified good or evil? If he had not been would you still consider yourself saved, even though it was done based upon a lie, so evil by your standards? Just because you are unable to see beyond duality does not mean it is real. That doesn't mean all acts are acceptable of course.
Loreleila 3 years ago
there is a difference between good and bad. it is not written in a book, it is written in your heart. you know when you did right and wrong. the physical cannot determine the difference between the two, only the spirit, God, the truth can do this. it is quite possible to do wrong to someone. you must know how to communicate in any situation. some kids need a beating others don't, only the truth of the situation can determine this. you can choose to listen to the truth or listen to yourself
Elaforestr 3 years ago
No kids need beating. Children need loving and educating, enabling to understand what works and what doesn't, respect for others and themselves, to assess things rather than see adults as the enemy because they exert unreasoned power over them, tell them they hurt them in the name of right. Hypocrisy is not 'right'.
Loreleila 3 years ago
u discuss the relativity of right and wrong and yet you missed out on my point. i am truley sorry if i offended you with the rawness of my comments. My personal opinion is that i appreciated some of the ass whoopins my father gave me. but that is my own experience. sometimes you need to get burnt so you'll know not to play with fire. otherwise you might mess around and burn the house down. i have a friend who lost both his parents because his brother liked candles. please wittness the meaning
Elaforestr 3 years ago
OK, I understand what you say. However, I hope you can also acknowledge that you ( and your friend) could have been taught the same lesson in a loving way, through appreciation and understanding of what fire can do. Maybe then your friend might not have lost his/her parents (and I'm sorry about that, it must have been terrible for them). There are many ways to teach and to learn.
Btw, I'm not offended.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Its fine, and of course I can acknowledge it. and I think you just acknowledged that this was a negative lesson. thus you are acknoledging that there is a clear difference between positive and negative. unfortunatly this difference is often clouded by ambitious men who attempt to steal the light of God aka the truth as if it were their own.
Elaforestr 3 years ago
We may be onto semantics and interpretations now, but it was a lesson. All lessons are positivee, negative and everything in between. Fire serves a valuable purpose, it's what you do with it that gives it colour. But that aside, I totally agree that ambitious men manipulate to their own ends rather than serve the all, reality, the whole. Yes.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Excellent points in relation to moral dualism. Well done my friend. :)
Seti352 3 years ago
:) Good to see you chameleonic friend.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Is it the light that blinds?, or guides? Regardless of how we feel there are certain aspects of existance that we cannot deny, finding the right path is apparently well lit, but we still, are all in and end up in at the same place with the same dry mouth.
Below an account of a real earthly experiance that i quite enjoyed because of the unexceptional circumstances.
urquiza78 3 years ago
I was riding my bicycle the other night through a very dark place that i am not unfamiliar with, but my front light was out so i knew it was gonna be tricky as its up but mostly downhill with a lot of bends i found myself touching the brakes a lot more often than i normally would to fathom which direction the bends in the road went, its a scenic route by day with pleasent views and at night i found it equally pleasent because of sounds that i guess in the day rarely seem as enticing.
urquiza78 3 years ago
However the sounds alone wouldnt guide me home so i became much more cautious and gathered the glint from the reflection in the worn tarmac, my recollection then additional helped. I enjoyed it more than most outings and eventually although not as speedy, found my way home, or at least to roads that were lit and gave me time to think about which way i would then go to get.
urquiza78 3 years ago
Excellent example. If we were able to walk through life with this kind of awareness making choices based upon all our senses without assumptions we could not only get beyond a simplistic and unrealistic formula but be so much more alive.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Ones own fortitude in this day can be a very difficult thing to attain or explain but it would seem never within embarkation especially when the evaluation of seems so radical or maybe even generalized to meet modern needs or brutally said, desires?
urquiza78 3 years ago
ahh thanks for that integrative lesson in nonduality.
in fact when it is recognized that there is only one consistent reality that cannot be opposed but accepted, only love holds as an adequate attitude.
this is easy when passive but difficult as an activity.
how can we get intentional without following a dichotomy ?
whenever we make plans we have to reject alternatives for some reason, some rule.
Mork5 3 years ago
in case of violence a charismatic person like jesus could interfere and calm down the perpetrator and the victim into resolvement of tensions.
but a weak person will simply be another victim.
i'm afraid there is no model of how to behave exept that, when we approach with compassion, we have to accept that we may fail and no justice or resolving may happen.
Mork5 3 years ago
What is weak? Sometimes the appearance of weakness is actually a strength. What is failure? A mistake? Pain? Injustice? Can apparent failure become success through learning, growth, increased understanding? These words and concepts used in a dualistic fashion tend to become a catch 22, a circular logic which binds. But when everything is viewed as an opportunity those chains are broken.
Loreleila 3 years ago
I don't personally see a dichotomy. Sometimes a passive response is needed, other times an active one, but there may be numerous possibilities within those. There is no formula to work to beyond duality. It must be our responsibility to learn the skills to weigh those options and make choices. Rarely do we make a choice which is all right or all wrong. Love can contain anything and all. Sometimes rules complement that and others work against it, I'll still follow love.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Ha! I just noticed I had fell asleep at my computer last night leaning on my ''='' key. Now I have a document with 100s of ''='' on it. Oh, it regards to numerical importance. e world is divided up with numerous numerical values. 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, and so on. It's nature. It's all good. 8-)
DieselBodine 3 years ago
It all is. = :)
Loreleila 3 years ago
I don't see there being a right and a wrong, only different perspectives...
phekwig 3 years ago
Me too. But those who can perceive that are few and far between.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Ooh, I managed to trace the Hafiz - ghazal #243 in Afshar (ed.), Tehran, 1348 (~1969). Shame so much is (unavoidably) lost in translation, including metre and rhyme.
But I haven't a hope with the unfamiliar bit of Jalal ud-Din sans hint. Masnavi & Kulliyat-e Shams are 3 & 10 weighty volumes. I daren't even call him Rumi nowadays as it merely promotes dichotomy with the Balkhi crew.
Thanks for the reminder that humanity has been there, thought that. I've not done much more than buy the T-shirt.
mnemonyxx2 3 years ago
A rose by any other name....He ran through the streets spouting all this. I'm sure he wouldn't mind my lack of reference.
'Thanks for the reminder that humanity has been there, thought that. I've not done much more than buy the T-shirt'
I'm sure you have. We all have a part to play, surely. What I find interesting is that though all these very different philosophies have much the same core mankind so often comprehensively distorts them to their own ends, missing the true essence.
Loreleila 3 years ago
I watched this three times before I responded...I want to agree with you...But I find your conception of "morality" to be problematic. If all morality is unconditional, what then stops the right of the 'superior' to rule over the 'inferior'. Or to simply equate morality with say good = pleasure and bad = pain? Even if we all conceded that all morality, that is all 'good' and 'bad' are subjective, aren't we still left with the necessity of empathetic action being preferred to psychopathology? 5*s
2bsirius 3 years ago
In a way you exemplify the difficulty of dualistic thinking here. Who is superior or inferior? Can there ever be a definitive good or bad and how can pleasure and pain ever be separated? The whole concept of morality is problematic, and which of us can realistically claim adequate objectivity to postulate what might be a definitive morality? You make an important point: empathy in each situation can help considerably in examining the many factors present, whatever the situation.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Btw, I'm flattered you considered this worth watching three times. Thanks. :)
Loreleila 3 years ago
If you don't like the superior/inferior...Try weak and strong....AND the obvious difference between pleasure and pain probably doesn't need further explication...BUT if you just follow that idea, you might soon arrive at the 'ethics' of the Marques de Sade....Surely that's not exactly what you had in mind, right?
2bsirius 3 years ago
But that's my point, I don't think anything can be categorised so simply. There is a range, a spectrum, a complexity of factors in absolutely everything. Sometimes those who appear strong are actually the weakest of all trying to hide it. Sometimes pain brings great gifts. Those who imagine they are superior are often anything but. Appearances belie facts so often, reality goes way beyond this or that, always. It might be pleasing if life were so simple but it isn't.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Yes, I agree if a dialectic becomes rigid dogmatic, tha's terrible. BUT if we go too far the other way, for example, if we simply say the only rule is that there are no rules, we are descending into some very slippery territory. Alistair Crowley's first law is an example. It came from his 'cosmology' and was based on François Rabelais' ideas about the sovereignty of Will: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." but it was really most often just license. So too was much of what the...
2bsirius 3 years ago
...the work of the Marques de Sade...waht is the outcome in something like his 2120 Days of Sodom" if you allow absolutely no rule making? In case you don't remember exactly, 120 Days of Sodom is the story of how a number of debouched French noblemen tortured a teenage girls to death in hideous ways while listen to stories told by an old prostitute. A horrible example, I know, and I only bring it up here because if there are no options for sanctions, all civilized behavior can dissolve.
2bsirius 3 years ago
Without wisdom and responsibility no system can work, even a no system system. The 'morality' we are expected to work within produces at least as many atrocities as a more realistic and honest in the moment response would do. Will requires more than just doing whatever you feel like, since it involves an awareness of consequences upon the self. Act with cruelty or lack of thought towards others and you set yourself up for like to be returned. There is a huge danger in looking at the worst of
Loreleila 3 years ago
any alternative and sticking with the unreal for fear of that taking place.
'Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it' George Bernard Shaw
Loreleila 3 years ago
I guess my continued misgiving comes from your noble savage or natural man argument a la Rousseau or the ironic Voltaire.Yes, it's true that rigid moralistic systems attempting to impose unthinking codes externally on cultures often result in injustice and atrocities, by the same token complete moral license can result in the same kinds of abuse. I don't see anything in what you've said that would encourage THINKING and UNDERSTANDING of these complexities in order to avoid them. The Shaw quote
2bsirius 3 years ago
...actually seems to be about this...It isn't as easy as saying, "OK the new rule is that there are no more rules"...because as Shaw is pointing to obliquely, complete freedom is not as easy as it looks and comes with all sorts of endemic problems which is perhaps one of reasons that most men dread it.
2bsirius 3 years ago
Indeed. It's not easy at all, nor am I in any way implying it is. But it doesn't have to be one extreme or another. It requires real awareness, responsibility, a conscious consideration of each situation. Most simply wouldn't want to bother. Or would they? Social control is based upon a slumbering population who are force fed unreal and simplistic morals which keep them unaware of any true reality or sense of personal responsibility and power. I don't see that as preferable or desirable.
Loreleila 3 years ago
"It requires real awareness, responsibility, a conscious consideration of each situation." Exactly...It is just possible that if we could somehow scrape all the sanctions and social controls which, I agree, "tend to create slumbering population who are force fed unreal and simplistic morals" BUT ask yourself what would be the almost certain result of a no rule future. I'm afraid we are flirting with complete chaos and unbridled violence if we don't understand the complexities of absolute freedom
2bsirius 3 years ago
I do understand what you're saying. I don't see any absolutes however. Absolute freedom is really something of an impossibility, and there isn't space to go into the complexities of why here. But I also think there's a danger in assuming mankind will become violent and chaotic when not controlled by a set of fairly arbitrary rules or those who somehow claim the right to choose for everyone. General structures would of course be needed anyway, and as the world stands it would be madness (more)
Loreleila 3 years ago
to suddenly remove any moral codes. I'm not suggesting that. Mankind needs to learn to grow up, take responsibility, understand consequences of actions, and much more. This would take decades if not longer, the ability to examine situations maturely would need to be introduced into schools etc. But whether anything changes or not the facts are that morality is not real in any true sense, there is no absolute wrong or right and it is folly to behave as if there is.
Loreleila 3 years ago
You seem to make more sense than the famous quotes on the right! Of those quote,the one from the Dalai Lama is the most profound and true quote.A very interesting discussion.Thanks.
philipsmovies 3 years ago
I'm flattered. :) Yes, the Dalai Lama knows what he's talking about. Glad you enjoyed this.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Without Peace of mind we will fight and find new reasons to keep on fighting and dividing "The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name" from your quote of Lao Tzu, contains the essential to find in myselfs the uniting link not only to others but to all of the Univers I can perceive. They won't be a general consensus on truth just individual realisation. If I just could be as wise as what I know lol! Merci for that well documented video on that human experience and behavior!:-)!
Boucrate 3 years ago
It can hard to both express and to live what one has seen can't it? Yet it feels important to at least try. :)
Loreleila 3 years ago
ho indeed!:-)!
Boucrate 3 years ago
For some reason, this video makes me think about the prequel to RIFTER 1, which is called "The Origin of Alouette" it sounds like a few of the things Principal Mo'Rambi says to his Son, weeks before he ends up the victim of a normal potion *tears*
Serge165 3 years ago
May we be saved from normality. Does a normal potion wear off or is it permanent?
Loreleila 3 years ago
it doese infact wear off which is why in "the Ris of God" Ridley's Father reappears, but as he was in the prequel -- But, he said "The Rhinemaiden rewarded me for being kind hearted, and s he took away the blidners that he put me under"
Serge165 3 years ago
:-)
Loreleila 3 years ago
We do binary thinking to death in the west. I think it probably goes back to the Greeks and their interest in logic (law of the excluded middle, etc) and categories. Personally, I think it's a bit lazy. :)
gandersource 3 years ago
Indeed. Lazy and not terribly wise.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Here We Go Again (LoL) Love the four letter word that is feared so much that if spoken will change the way people think about you. I have been work on the very thought in depth with research to back it up. 1 in 5 don't have fear of it. I'll give + - 1 because it came from me. so 1 in 4 then 3 ppl live in fear of the unknown that is a positive that in there head is a negative. with no meaning added behind it. Fear is the wall that most hide behind and the controlling force that moves us.
czarwright 3 years ago
Love and understanding is only found inside the walls of fear.
I always see things in 3 and i try not to judge anyone and my 4 haters are gone and 1 apologized to me. I see Hope
Peace and Love
for one can't have peace with out it.
czarwright 3 years ago
'Love and understanding is only found inside the walls of fear'
Could you explain this please?
I'm so glad your haters have gone. You seemed very patient and fair.
Peace my friend. :)
Loreleila 3 years ago
I'm not completely sure I'm clear on what you're saying here. But I agree many are controlled by fear, especially of the unknown, which love can certainly be. Yet what a shackle that is. I prefer to see fear as the way to go rather than run from.
Loreleila 3 years ago
I will only confuse you more. hehehe
One of my saying to those who rub me the wrong way.
"I have no enemies, only some freinds in need of help. space is the threat, like the fist that has no room to move is no threat. Love and pain are one in the same and most will never know this as Fact. FEAR, causes space for them to move. So, i say Hug them and maybe they will see the light." its twisted but true and not to be used in a bar rooms. hehehe
czarwright 3 years ago
it attacked with hate i use love and try to gain the understanding in the hate. they run or puzzle ask why ( i have them then think about there actions ) with fear its easy to hate but LOve stops them dead or dumb founded for a time. like a dear in the head lights (FEAR)
czarwright 3 years ago
its hard to understand and harder to enplane. its Buddhism, art of war and ac power laws written by tesla. to understand high power in ac current positive a negative and space in moving.
one need the others to exist. hehehe
does this help?
czarwright 3 years ago
It certianly does help. I'm much clearer on what you're saying, and would largely agree as well. :)
Loreleila 3 years ago
.....All I know is... that dog shit stinks and new freshly washed babies smell wonderful... :)
747dog 3 years ago
lol Unless you were a dog, in which case both would probably smell rather good. Preferences are wonderful. How tedious life would be if we all liked the same things. :)
Loreleila 3 years ago
Quoting Crowley now? You keep surprising me. I love the works of Crowley as inpenetrable as they first seem.
HighlanderDavid 3 years ago
I'm glad I keep surprising you. :) Though latterly Crowley lost the plot somewhat and went into self destruct I have a lot of time for the way he perceived life. He and I probably have a fair bit in common in some respects.
Loreleila 3 years ago
As long as you don't die in poverty addicted to morphine I think you'll be alright.
HighlanderDavid 3 years ago
Indeed. I'd prefer to avoid that.
Loreleila 3 years ago
As in any argument, distancing yourself from the
tension, like the gnat guy said, can be survival for some. Living life from an observers view is a way, but loses the vitality of spirit if one's heart was left behind.
qizalia 3 years ago
A balance, or a harmony between the observer and the heart probably works best, as I think you're implying. Gnat guy lol. He'd love that. :)
Loreleila 3 years ago
Discrimination is inherent to rational thinking. Once you start thinking and dissecting reality you automatically lift certain facets and discard or neglect other facets. A philosopher is pushing his or her perspective. Once you start attaching meaning and passion to it you sow seeds for a holy war. On the other hand if we stop it all what will be left? Compassion as the bhuddists promise or just plain apathy?
F00dTube 3 years ago
'Once you start thinking and dissecting reality you automatically lift certain facets and discard or neglect other facets'
True, but realism would suggest whatever facets you are examining one can never see them all. It doesn't make it not worth looking.
'Compassion as the bhuddists promise or just plain apathy?'
I see many more than two options.
Loreleila 3 years ago
comment1/3 My point is exactly that in order to lift certain facets you have to assign a higher truthvalue to them. You deny yourself the rest of the truth. Even worse: when you come up with a concept you have invested in it, stopping that thought would make the whole thing meaningless and pointless. People fight for their idea's of good and evil because it's the only thing that gives a embodiment of meaning and purpose. By thinking you have already entered a path of suffering.
F00dTube 3 years ago
comment2/3 So on the other side of the spectrum you have a sort of bhuddistic concept which is solely based on deattachment. This is also why celibacy is so important. Enlightened bhuddists never experience anger. Why? Because it suddenly doesn't exist anymore? It's because they have traded a piece of life for peace and harmony. Exactly as qizalia says in this section.
F00dTube 3 years ago
comment3/3 In between is normal living: turmoil and struggle and joy and happiness failure and succes. People suck at bearing and coping with that. They rather blow stuff up or get verbally sadistic on a 10 year old kid on youtube. It's way easier to go for black and white because otherwise you have to sort of dangle in between in mediocrity. Death to the youtube comment system!
F00dTube 3 years ago
I'm totally with you on the YT comment system. It needs serious punishment.
It's interesting what you say here. I was considering making a video on the marriage of reason and passion. To me it is not an either or. Nothing need be excluded. We are whole beings, and all that being can be embraced. Indeed without it all we cannot be whole.
Loreleila 3 years ago
I believe in that aswell, very much. and I try to achieve it every day. It's just damn hard and in a way fighting against your own nature that's all I'm saying.
F00dTube 3 years ago
Understood. I wonder if it's working against our nature or our conditioning. I'm not sure I know the answer to that.
Loreleila 3 years ago
Lovely, thoughtful video! And great quotes.
That is the great mystery: all is one, yet all appears separate. I agree that life is both simple, yet infinitly complex.
As a metaphor, pure white light is the All, and a prism -- our minds -- divides this up into the color spectrum, simply different frequencies of light.
I have a vid about opposites, Something and Nothing. I think it's built in to the way we perceive. It is difficult for us to remember, that we are all one.
StevenErnest 3 years ago
Thanks Steven. It's funny, the metaphor you use here. I have a glass item on my windowsill which makes a rainbow every day if the sun shines. A client was here this evening and it was shining on his face, I used it to illustrate a very similar point. :)
Loreleila 3 years ago
We may - but we don't - all have two arms, etc...
MENCADO 3 years ago
Indeed. Even my making such a basic generalisation is flawed.
Loreleila 3 years ago
And, unfortunately, an unconscious habit that many, if not most, or even all of us have been brought up to have a tendency to exhibit. I blame it on the labeling of people according to groups.
MENCADO 3 years ago
There is also the tendency to attempt ease of thought, for want of a better phrase. If we considered each word for accuracy before we spoke, while in some senses it might be helpful, it would be cumbersome and much spontaneity and creativity would be lost. I guess it's about finding a balance of some sort.
Loreleila 3 years ago
I was thinking about nicking 'Beyond Good and Evil' from Borders last week. If they are books by dead authors then it's not naughty.
yeahwotevaman 3 years ago
Used booksellers are a dying breed, but not yet extinct.:)
MENCADO 3 years ago
No doubt it needed liberating. Is naughty a bad thing to be then?
Loreleila 3 years ago
Well done!
NewWarriorMan 3 years ago
Sometimes your comments make me scratch my head.
Loreleila 3 years ago