I'LL remove all the floor re -nailed and start all over you are just at the begining there be a lot of spots that you wont be able to see at the moment,nice shower.
The shower turned out nice but if you over looked something as important as the integrity of your subfloor, (especially with 20" tile) I mean floor movement is on this top of the list to check before you even think of installing tile. I would have to question your ability to create a water tight & long lasting shower pan installation. And I just hope it's the camera that is showing shade contrast between those shower tiles..cuz if I'm the HO on this job..you guys may be doing this job for free
The shower turned out nice but if you over looked something as important as the integrity of your subfloor, (especially with 20" tile) I mean floor movement is on this top of the list to check before you even think of installing tile. I would have to question your ability to create a water tight & long lasting shower pan installation. And I just hope it's the camera that is showing shade contrast between those shower tiles..cuz if I'm the HO on this job..you guys might be doing this job for free
This is what always bothered my about Ditra; without the compressive strength of supposedly non-structural cement-board it doesn't do anything to stiffen the sub-floor. Having gotten this far, can you just screw&mortar cement board onto the Ditra?
@lrd9999 I am confused... I am an absolute beginner and am trying to get an idea of how to do this. When putting tile over a concrete subfloor with vinyl installed: is the ditra a replacement for cement-board, or is it an additional layer you install once the cement board is down?
@bpitsenb I can't claim to be an expert, but from what I've read, the sole purpose of Ditra (or similar products) is to allow the tile and the subfloor to "slip" a little, so they can expand at different rates without cracking and/or buckling. On concrete this would seem like just what's needed. On plywood, there's the added risk of large tiles cracking as the subfloor flexes vertically, enough layers and screws might prevent this, but I'd prefer a layer of mortared/screwed cement board.
@lrd9999 I'm sure even the CB is no guarantee; a really aggressive bulge in the top layer of plywood could conceivably flex the CB enough to cause trouble. But the dimensional stability and compressive strength of the CB will at least help prevent downward deflection. I don't know if Ditra and CB are ever combined, except to correct a mistake. It will probably be fine alone on your concrete, but if the vinyl has too much give, it might have to go; maybe some real experts will weigh-in on that.
nice job guys, ive had that happen before but not with ditra, it happened with a sheet vinyl job.
in all honesty i that happened to me i would have just screwed on top and if i was really worried about water penetration i would have just put a layer of kerdi on top of it.
I think the hardest thing for many installers is they think they don't get payed to check subfloor and really inspect things before they start tiling. No matter how good a product is its only as good as what's under it. As a professional take the time to see if the builder did his job correctly, NEVER assume!!!
By putting screws threw ditra and subfloor didn't you defeat the purpose of ditra.The ditra is supposed to decouple the tile from the subfloor and float. I guess you blew that job. Good thing the customer didn't understand why they were paying extra for ditra.
such a shame!!!! All that work for naught. Love the work you did in the shower, just beautiful tiling! this video really made me laugh too, especially the end. :)
@gueuzeman Good call and good catch. At least you owned up to your mistake and fixed it. Good integrity! There's a lot of people out there that just don't care. I bet you'll be in business much longer than others. Take care.
@gueuzeman The wall tile looks to be two different colors in the shower and you tried to blend it. is it two colors or is it soupposed to be only one color
@nguzmn ahh, now I get it, you're a dummy! There aren't 2 different lots, the tiles set the day before are still holding moisture from the thinset! Don't you know the marble turns dark when it gets wet, takes a few days to cure.
@gueuzeman And it took you a month how to figure out how to reply Who is the real dummy, The one who does not check his posts or the one who does not check the sub-floor before installing material wasting time and money. Same person You could have gotten paid
Loving your videos, I teach Contractors how to Buy & Sell houses, I am looking to promote my video's. Please review my Video's, any help would be greatly appreciated.
There is a difference between fabricating tile and cutting tile, a nuance not unsurprisingly lost on someone who using "mesh" on a floor. Perhaps you mean lath? AKA the dreaded " jersey mud" job.
You know what’s a bad idea not checking your subfloor prior to ditra install!!! It sure came up easy as well looks like it was not properly installed; now don’t be dumb and cheap! tare the whole mat up and fix it properly that stuff don’t cost that much and the way you’re putting screws right through it and cutting holes everywhere you are totally defeating the purpose of the ditra, ditra is garbage and way to overrated and expensive use mesh!! I love how you say fabricated don’t you mean cut?
@heavydxxx Your long winded rant does not make much sense. take your time, catch your breath and remember to use proper sentence structure. That refers to coma's, periods, adjectives. Then i might understand what you are saying. Is mesh bad and ditra good?
@emigrantgap - well, is there a spec in the TCNA (Tile council of North America) spec book for a mesh install? There is for Ditra as an uncoupling membrane, as well as approved/recomended install parameters for other liquid and sheet products. No "Jersey or Utah" mud applications out there are are recommended or approved by the TCNA or manufacturers of tile installation products.
As for my "script", there is no script, we just turned on the camera and let life unfold. Warts and all.
Dice- you are of course entitled to your opinion. There was no old subfloor to remove, it was new 3/4" advantech with 1/2" ply on top, all new, joists, etc. all new. Ditra does not suck. Sheet and liquid membranes also work. So does setting direct on the ply, IF you do everything right. Happy new year, now go get drunk and wrap your car around a telephone pole.
What's the advantage of using Ditra over cement backer board? Easier/faster to cut/lay? Thinner? How do you secure the Ditra to the wood subfloor? Thanks.
Thomasuras- mud works good, I'm getting too old to haul all that up the stairs.
Starrtile- All these things will work if done right, which is what we did. I wouldn't put Backer on a single layer ply with 18" marble, but you are free to.
White mosquito- you live in a glass house?> It must feel nice to have never made a mistake in your life, but then again, you're a tile installer, so.....
white mosquito, no need to be a dbag. These guys didn't need to post this vid showing their fuckup. They did so to remind us not to take things for granted, for which I am thankful as they caused me to double check and in my case NOT use polymer modified thinset for the ditra -> tile (you are supposed to use modified thinset below the ditra if applying to wood but not above to the tile).
So RELAX, and some thanks are in order, not telling them what they already know. Shower looks GREAT!
@ironlungs33 I just ran into a similar problem and I believe it was because I put unmodified between the ditra and the plywood (it was supposed to be modified). Schluter told me the wood absorbed all the moisture causing my plywood underlayment to buckle.
@gueuzeman Could this have been the same problem for you? Did you find out what specifically was wrong with the underlayment / subfloor?
How the FUCK did you hacks not check that floor the very FIRST thing you did? I mean you must have walked over it hundreds of time while doing your shower walls and pan and you didn't notice it? 100% unacceptable and makes me wonder what kind of things did you miss when did the shower pan and the shower walls. Jeezuz, no wonder people in the trades get a bad name, it's videos and guys like this..............
First off, your screw up was NOT using backerboard...had you done this, you wouldn't have a "floating floor", the screws or 1 1/2'' gal roofing nails would've adhered the subfloor tightly ! This whole Ditra garbage is getting ppl rich & is not only NOT needed, it'll cause problems IF WATER gets between it & the tile...over years of no escape, that moisture thats TRAPPED will break down the thinset and cause all the tile to come up....thats your 2cd mistake...not enough room for # 3 & #4, damn
The shower looks so cool, too much marble for me personally- but sweet anyway! As for the ditra situation.....that totally sucks. But you're right, you can't take things like that for granted. It's just unfortunate, it's such a huge investment- and boom..things like that, and you smack yourself for it. I think you handled it well though, I would have absolutely no idea what to do if that happened to me.
I'm old school builder and all theise new products really suck and are not functional . If you read the instructions on theise products the prep work alone makes it not worth it "float sub floor joints" expensive screws tame and mask all the seams screw the durock even the cost makes it not worth it. You need to block your joist drop your plywood sub floor then do 1-1/2 in of mud on wire lath and theirs no call backs. Just add up the real cost my way is better and cheaper
Sucky situation. I don't understand why subfloor installers didn't just screw the sh!t out of the subfloor. I'm looking at Ditra for two kitchens that now have t-i-g over joists. Congrats on the shower -- great craftsmanship.
Why not use stainless washers and screws that will fit inside the ditra pattern and screw right down through both. The washers and screw heads will be buried below the surface.
MB and pale horse- if you pay attention to the dialouge and read the comments I'm pretty upfront that the ditra is fine, and it is the subfloor that had the problem. Ditra is an underlayment, not a subfloor, the plywood (2 layers 1 1/8" total) is the problem.
I'm not going to change the name of the video, and as I have said many times, Ditra is a great product. I just put down over 1,000 sq. ft. of it.
This video is a heads up to never take anything for granted, as I did in this case.
What's wrong with just pre-fastening the sub floor, installing tar paper for water-proofing and then screwing down Hardibacker board. I have never had a problem with this method.
If i'm on bare concrete, I will roll down Compseal Gold as an anti-fracture barrier. Again, no problems ever with this process either. I guess "if it aint broke, why fix it"! I live in earthquake country too(Southern California)
OUCH!! I'm no pro, but yeah.. the subfloor is bad!
I screwed my plank floor down to the 2x8s, then put 5/8" fir plywood screwed on 4" centers.. no deflection.. sounds "tight".. Ditra is going over it soon!
So techcially it's not Ditra's problem right? I plan on doing my kitchen floor and I have never done tiling before. This will be my first time. Some dude suggested to use Ditra for underlayment instead of backer board. Would you say Ditra is a good product? Should I go ahead and install Ditra instead of backerboard. I think it's easier to install Ditra right?
Not a ditra problem, it's good stuff, I use it on a very regular basis. Just make sure the floor is good before you put it down. I learned my lesson, but 2 years down the road the floor is still good. I spoke to that customer last month.
@OreoCookieOreo If you have never tiled before you might want to HIRE a professional ..Ditra is indeed a good product, but it needs to be installed right for a waterproof and a good bond for the tile
This is why , as a tiler, I always install the ply overlaid floor. Some clients have been shocked to see the amount of screws I use ont he ply but I have never had any problems. Never leave a critical task like that to anyone else.
I'LL remove all the floor re -nailed and start all over you are just at the begining there be a lot of spots that you wont be able to see at the moment,nice shower.
manuelito489 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The shower turned out nice but if you over looked something as important as the integrity of your subfloor, (especially with 20" tile) I mean floor movement is on this top of the list to check before you even think of installing tile. I would have to question your ability to create a water tight & long lasting shower pan installation. And I just hope it's the camera that is showing shade contrast between those shower tiles..cuz if I'm the HO on this job..you guys may be doing this job for free
Hagfan789 2 months ago
The shower turned out nice but if you over looked something as important as the integrity of your subfloor, (especially with 20" tile) I mean floor movement is on this top of the list to check before you even think of installing tile. I would have to question your ability to create a water tight & long lasting shower pan installation. And I just hope it's the camera that is showing shade contrast between those shower tiles..cuz if I'm the HO on this job..you guys might be doing this job for free
Hagfan789 2 months ago
Oh my god that shower is gorgeous.
saturnianspire 2 months ago
This is what always bothered my about Ditra; without the compressive strength of supposedly non-structural cement-board it doesn't do anything to stiffen the sub-floor. Having gotten this far, can you just screw&mortar cement board onto the Ditra?
lrd9999 5 months ago
@lrd9999 I am confused... I am an absolute beginner and am trying to get an idea of how to do this. When putting tile over a concrete subfloor with vinyl installed: is the ditra a replacement for cement-board, or is it an additional layer you install once the cement board is down?
bpitsenb 4 months ago
@bpitsenb I can't claim to be an expert, but from what I've read, the sole purpose of Ditra (or similar products) is to allow the tile and the subfloor to "slip" a little, so they can expand at different rates without cracking and/or buckling. On concrete this would seem like just what's needed. On plywood, there's the added risk of large tiles cracking as the subfloor flexes vertically, enough layers and screws might prevent this, but I'd prefer a layer of mortared/screwed cement board.
lrd9999 4 months ago
@lrd9999 I'm sure even the CB is no guarantee; a really aggressive bulge in the top layer of plywood could conceivably flex the CB enough to cause trouble. But the dimensional stability and compressive strength of the CB will at least help prevent downward deflection. I don't know if Ditra and CB are ever combined, except to correct a mistake. It will probably be fine alone on your concrete, but if the vinyl has too much give, it might have to go; maybe some real experts will weigh-in on that.
lrd9999 4 months ago
nice job guys, ive had that happen before but not with ditra, it happened with a sheet vinyl job.
in all honesty i that happened to me i would have just screwed on top and if i was really worried about water penetration i would have just put a layer of kerdi on top of it.
tier1111 5 months ago
This your fault because You need tested the plywood before install Ditra.
951700983 5 months ago
marble doesn't have die lots, since it's not man-made.
MsNiklet 5 months ago
I think the hardest thing for many installers is they think they don't get payed to check subfloor and really inspect things before they start tiling. No matter how good a product is its only as good as what's under it. As a professional take the time to see if the builder did his job correctly, NEVER assume!!!
acody1973 6 months ago
Looks like the forgot to apply thinset to the subfloor before laying the Ditra. I
see screws in it ?
anniedecor 6 months ago
"But it's a Schluter drain! So it's a nice one!"
karlkatzke 7 months ago
By putting screws threw ditra and subfloor didn't you defeat the purpose of ditra.The ditra is supposed to decouple the tile from the subfloor and float. I guess you blew that job. Good thing the customer didn't understand why they were paying extra for ditra.
Rosenguild 8 months ago
How can you be a hot shot tile installer and not know to prep the sub floor first?
Klingon128 9 months ago
@Klingon128 Well, I'm just a hot shot human tile installer, an inferior life form. We all are not so lucky to be born Klingon.
gueuzeman 9 months ago 5
such a shame!!!! All that work for naught. Love the work you did in the shower, just beautiful tiling! this video really made me laugh too, especially the end. :)
allistairave 10 months ago
@allistairave Not for naught, put a few hundred screws in it and set the stone. Been well over 3 years now with no callbacks.
gueuzeman 9 months ago 2
@gueuzeman Good call and good catch. At least you owned up to your mistake and fixed it. Good integrity! There's a lot of people out there that just don't care. I bet you'll be in business much longer than others. Take care.
1968DartGTS 3 months ago
@1968DartGTS - Thank you for the kind words. I try hard, some days are better than others.
gueuzeman 3 months ago
you skimped out on the material and you got two different dye-lots of tile HEHEHE
nguzmn 10 months ago
@nguzmn Ummm, what? Not following you . Please explain- thanks, gueuze
gueuzeman 10 months ago
@gueuzeman The wall tile looks to be two different colors in the shower and you tried to blend it. is it two colors or is it soupposed to be only one color
nguzmn 10 months ago
@nguzmn ahh, now I get it, you're a dummy! There aren't 2 different lots, the tiles set the day before are still holding moisture from the thinset! Don't you know the marble turns dark when it gets wet, takes a few days to cure.
gueuzeman 9 months ago
@gueuzeman And it took you a month how to figure out how to reply Who is the real dummy, The one who does not check his posts or the one who does not check the sub-floor before installing material wasting time and money. Same person You could have gotten paid
nguzmn 9 months ago
you skimped out on the material and you got two different dyy-lots of tile HEHEHE
nguzmn 10 months ago
Reno- thanks, just trying to be of service, and have a bit of fun. Some days are better than others.
gueuzeman 1 year ago
Loving your videos, I teach Contractors how to Buy & Sell houses, I am looking to promote my video's. Please review my Video's, any help would be greatly appreciated.
renobible 1 year ago
There is a difference between fabricating tile and cutting tile, a nuance not unsurprisingly lost on someone who using "mesh" on a floor. Perhaps you mean lath? AKA the dreaded " jersey mud" job.
gueuzeman 1 year ago
You know what’s a bad idea not checking your subfloor prior to ditra install!!! It sure came up easy as well looks like it was not properly installed; now don’t be dumb and cheap! tare the whole mat up and fix it properly that stuff don’t cost that much and the way you’re putting screws right through it and cutting holes everywhere you are totally defeating the purpose of the ditra, ditra is garbage and way to overrated and expensive use mesh!! I love how you say fabricated don’t you mean cut?
heavydxxx 1 year ago
@heavydxxx Your long winded rant does not make much sense. take your time, catch your breath and remember to use proper sentence structure. That refers to coma's, periods, adjectives. Then i might understand what you are saying. Is mesh bad and ditra good?
emigrantgap 11 months ago
@emigrantgap - well, is there a spec in the TCNA (Tile council of North America) spec book for a mesh install? There is for Ditra as an uncoupling membrane, as well as approved/recomended install parameters for other liquid and sheet products. No "Jersey or Utah" mud applications out there are are recommended or approved by the TCNA or manufacturers of tile installation products.
As for my "script", there is no script, we just turned on the camera and let life unfold. Warts and all.
gueuzeman 11 months ago
Dice- you are of course entitled to your opinion. There was no old subfloor to remove, it was new 3/4" advantech with 1/2" ply on top, all new, joists, etc. all new. Ditra does not suck. Sheet and liquid membranes also work. So does setting direct on the ply, IF you do everything right. Happy new year, now go get drunk and wrap your car around a telephone pole.
gueuzeman 1 year ago 3
you are a hack job. If that was my house i would have removed all the old subfloor and put new 1/2 inch plywood everywhere. ditra sucks
dicelockdown 1 year ago
What's the advantage of using Ditra over cement backer board? Easier/faster to cut/lay? Thinner? How do you secure the Ditra to the wood subfloor? Thanks.
DaZoneRanger 1 year ago
Thomasuras- mud works good, I'm getting too old to haul all that up the stairs.
Starrtile- All these things will work if done right, which is what we did. I wouldn't put Backer on a single layer ply with 18" marble, but you are free to.
White mosquito- you live in a glass house?> It must feel nice to have never made a mistake in your life, but then again, you're a tile installer, so.....
Floor is now 3 years old- no callback yet.
gueuzeman 1 year ago
white mosquito, no need to be a dbag. These guys didn't need to post this vid showing their fuckup. They did so to remind us not to take things for granted, for which I am thankful as they caused me to double check and in my case NOT use polymer modified thinset for the ditra -> tile (you are supposed to use modified thinset below the ditra if applying to wood but not above to the tile).
So RELAX, and some thanks are in order, not telling them what they already know. Shower looks GREAT!
ironlungs33 1 year ago
@ironlungs33 i gave you a thumbs up. props for getting to point and being positive. its rare, positivity that is.
emigrantgap 11 months ago
@emigrantgap Thanks- usually I'm a miserable bastard, but once in a while.....
gueuzeman 11 months ago
@ironlungs33 I just ran into a similar problem and I believe it was because I put unmodified between the ditra and the plywood (it was supposed to be modified). Schluter told me the wood absorbed all the moisture causing my plywood underlayment to buckle.
@gueuzeman Could this have been the same problem for you? Did you find out what specifically was wrong with the underlayment / subfloor?
guru10cea 8 months ago
How the FUCK did you hacks not check that floor the very FIRST thing you did? I mean you must have walked over it hundreds of time while doing your shower walls and pan and you didn't notice it? 100% unacceptable and makes me wonder what kind of things did you miss when did the shower pan and the shower walls. Jeezuz, no wonder people in the trades get a bad name, it's videos and guys like this..............
thewhitemosquito 1 year ago
First off, your screw up was NOT using backerboard...had you done this, you wouldn't have a "floating floor", the screws or 1 1/2'' gal roofing nails would've adhered the subfloor tightly ! This whole Ditra garbage is getting ppl rich & is not only NOT needed, it'll cause problems IF WATER gets between it & the tile...over years of no escape, that moisture thats TRAPPED will break down the thinset and cause all the tile to come up....thats your 2cd mistake...not enough room for # 3 & #4, damn
StarrTile 1 year ago 2
The shower looks so cool, too much marble for me personally- but sweet anyway! As for the ditra situation.....that totally sucks. But you're right, you can't take things like that for granted. It's just unfortunate, it's such a huge investment- and boom..things like that, and you smack yourself for it. I think you handled it well though, I would have absolutely no idea what to do if that happened to me.
cheeseboxproductions 1 year ago
I'm old school builder and all theise new products really suck and are not functional . If you read the instructions on theise products the prep work alone makes it not worth it "float sub floor joints" expensive screws tame and mask all the seams screw the durock even the cost makes it not worth it. You need to block your joist drop your plywood sub floor then do 1-1/2 in of mud on wire lath and theirs no call backs. Just add up the real cost my way is better and cheaper
thomasuras 1 year ago
you could have screwed the floor down in the time it took you to make the vid, I don't think you guys are as terrible as your acting, get 'er done!
22uber 1 year ago
Sucky situation. I don't understand why subfloor installers didn't just screw the sh!t out of the subfloor. I'm looking at Ditra for two kitchens that now have t-i-g over joists. Congrats on the shower -- great craftsmanship.
dfalchek 1 year ago
amazing shower
Garciamrcool 1 year ago
ah who cares, live and learn. atleast you guys have to common sense to fix it rather than just cover over it.
tier1111 1 year ago
Awesome product, its either a sub=floor problem or they didn't put the Ditra down properly. Fucking Cowboys.
nefhead 1 year ago
what are you using to patch the ditra afterwards? a liquid sealer like redguard?
Acidburn24 1 year ago
Why not use stainless washers and screws that will fit inside the ditra pattern and screw right down through both. The washers and screw heads will be buried below the surface.
johnnyspin 1 year ago
thatz one nice shower !
SpeedReefer 2 years ago
MB and pale horse- if you pay attention to the dialouge and read the comments I'm pretty upfront that the ditra is fine, and it is the subfloor that had the problem. Ditra is an underlayment, not a subfloor, the plywood (2 layers 1 1/8" total) is the problem.
I'm not going to change the name of the video, and as I have said many times, Ditra is a great product. I just put down over 1,000 sq. ft. of it.
This video is a heads up to never take anything for granted, as I did in this case.
gueuzeman 2 years ago
Not, I repeat NOT a Ditra problem.
The subfloor is incorrect so anything layed down
over it will be so as well.
You should have seen there was a problem when you
were walking on it, and should have definately noticed
it when you were scratch coating for the Ditra. Sloppy
mbranca 2 years ago
@mbranca your supposed to glue the shit down retard
mikey1fish 1 year ago
Change the name of this video. its not a ditra problem. its the crappy subfloor!
rideofthepalehorse 2 years ago
so how do you avoid this problem when you want to use ditra?
How do you know b4hand that this wont happen when you install the ditra?
CheFuser 2 years ago
What's wrong with just pre-fastening the sub floor, installing tar paper for water-proofing and then screwing down Hardibacker board. I have never had a problem with this method.
If i'm on bare concrete, I will roll down Compseal Gold as an anti-fracture barrier. Again, no problems ever with this process either. I guess "if it aint broke, why fix it"! I live in earthquake country too(Southern California)
jonathanstile 2 years ago
OUCH!! I'm no pro, but yeah.. the subfloor is bad!
I screwed my plank floor down to the 2x8s, then put 5/8" fir plywood screwed on 4" centers.. no deflection.. sounds "tight".. Ditra is going over it soon!
thanks for the post! sorry for the headache :(
myronx19 2 years ago
So techcially it's not Ditra's problem right? I plan on doing my kitchen floor and I have never done tiling before. This will be my first time. Some dude suggested to use Ditra for underlayment instead of backer board. Would you say Ditra is a good product? Should I go ahead and install Ditra instead of backerboard. I think it's easier to install Ditra right?
OreoCookieOreo 2 years ago
Not a ditra problem, it's good stuff, I use it on a very regular basis. Just make sure the floor is good before you put it down. I learned my lesson, but 2 years down the road the floor is still good. I spoke to that customer last month.
Have a good install- gueuze
gueuzeman 2 years ago
@OreoCookieOreo If you have never tiled before you might want to HIRE a professional ..Ditra is indeed a good product, but it needs to be installed right for a waterproof and a good bond for the tile
smethious 1 year ago
Okay, not a Ditra subfloor problem. Just a subfloor problem. Even Ditra can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
tomx63 2 years ago
this stuff is time consuming why not screw ply underlay down then scratch coat with steel mesh. or just do it the old fashion way and screed it
guada71 2 years ago
haha this sucks for u
80smetalchild 2 years ago
Yes, it's ok to give the customer a good screwin' , at least when you're attaching subflooring.
We re-screwed the floor every 4" with cement board screws and set the floor. 18 months ago, so far, so good.
Keeping fingers crossed.
gueuzeman 2 years ago
This is why , as a tiler, I always install the ply overlaid floor. Some clients have been shocked to see the amount of screws I use ont he ply but I have never had any problems. Never leave a critical task like that to anyone else.
Etherglide 2 years ago