Added: 2 years ago
From: zukuru
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  • what is the training for the guy with the katana?  and props to the guy with the shield, I'd be afraid to go into battle with something that size but he uses it quite effectively.

  • check out my Videos!! way better! search: urban kendo

  • @TheSensiSamurai sorry I missed it - you're the undefended master, Sir.

  • Again, footwork is the difference. The katana guy moved forward and back, mostly. His left chudan hasso was the most effective as it allowed an oblique angle to the langes right do. Yet, an attack on lange's left elbow by stepping off line to lange's left when he attacked with the shield, would work better than moving straight up the middle, it seems

  • The shield guy had a great combo from the middle onward that he used continuously, he'd intentionally strike the katana with his shield to disable his opponents defenses then strike with his free hand.

  • guy with shield has huge tactical advantage indeed.

  • you guys need protective gear! Even a dull tip can pierce fleshy bits D:!

  • it looks very casual...but it`s obvious - with minimum protection you fight at max 10% power / speed,

    anyway - every initiatve to dimnish katanas` mythology is golden.

    bring back our european classic Fechtschulen to every city !! =)

  • Finally, steel!

  • You can't really decide which one of these weapons would win considering neither of them are using their weapons correctly.. and since theres not really any full contact (which I understand you can't do because of saftey) you can't fully understand which of these weapons would win.. I would vote Katana btw.. but he's using it incorrectly.. -____-

  • @stoner4010 its a special kind of shield used with arming sword styles, i myself cant stand the things as it requires very low stances to use correctly and im a pretty tall guy but it IS a real shield

  • That isn't a shield, it's a hubcap!

    Are you people pppr? swordfighting in the YMCA of the ghetto?? Please at least use a full size shield.

  • @stoner4010 It simulates a small round shield, called scottish Targe. Not every shield in history was big round viking, long norman or knight triangular stuff.

  • wow, how unsafe the metal weapon it can be. What would happen an accident came across mix up weapon with the real sharp one and the fake blade?

  • @TheBastered : It's incredibly easy to tell when a blade is a sharp and when it's a trainer. The trainers have 3 mm edges.

  • baaah madre mia, olvidais por completo el arma del rival... no me extraña que el del messer muera tanto, en fin lo preocupante no es dar al enemigo, es que el no te de a ti, y para eso hace falta controlar el arma del rival, y al propio rival.

  • so many draws/double deaths

  • You don't purposely smack the opponent's sword. It does nothing and causes damage to your weapon. Parrying, more often than not, happens due to the opponents trying to reach each other, and they hit swords. You should really only hit the opponent's sword if absolutely necessary.

  • Wakigamai stance is bad vs shields, I prefer the spear or the naginata-glaive against the shields men. Stab away without relent.

  • Wo bekomme ich diese Art von Geräten in den USA?

  • In theory if Person A has a Sword and Shield while Person B has only a Sword. Would the best strat be for Person B to always stay on either the Shield or Sword side of Person A? Seems fighting any person with a sword/shield combo head on is suicide. Would constant rotational movement make a positive difference? Obviously they would both be turning to keep up with one another but would it make attack and blocking for Person A more difficult if rotation is constant?

  • @EvilDarkJackel A one handed sword doesn't necessarily have to pierce armor. It's shorter and easier to maneuver, and can be lunged at weak points in the opponent's armor or gaps between the pieces.

  • against popular belief i would say the katana is actually the best cutting weapon when used only for defense. in this manner you hold it in reverse grip which allows greater blocking and once block has been achieved you then thrust or simply slit there throat/stomach as if you were holding a large knife.

  • You go after attacks too much, its better to be defensive and wait for the right moment. Deflect, deflect, strike. But its all about learning and it'll come :)

  • gotta love how he does the escrima

  • Was für Handschuhe verwendet ihr eigentlich?

  • @SankeEngelskrieger lacrosse oder street hokey gloves

  • sword and board, thats the way to go

  • The katana wielder strikes and drops his guard.

  • sweet videos man. For those of you interested in full contact sparring you should check out Dagorhir the weapons are padded allowing you to make full strength swings and they are also very realistic in weight and balance.

  • i see some escrima style in the langer messer guy is that correct?. nothing wrong with it ofcourse

  • @florisjanpietster not an expert, although, i have seen other people with langes messer and shield and they have the same movements. it appears that they style is like that.

  • That was an interesting demo.  The sword and shield fighter looked very formidable. The katana user appeared to be fencing with a katana rather than employing kenjutsu.

  • The sword and shield user was ok, but not great. Try searching 'spear vs sword' and find the Jake vs Nick simulations, these guys are skilled. Anyway, if skill of both warriors is equal, Katana user would most always be at a severe disadvantage against most weapons. Shield and sword is already a huge tactical advantage, spear vs katana would be even worse, with about 10-1 ratio or more for the spear. Even european longsword has advantage over the katana in range, weight and balance

  • @ProFF77 I've always been of the "it depends" philosophy. I've also fenced for many years as well and once at a certain level of proficiency, I couldn't see a real advantage between weapons or styles. I'm certainly not as well versed in other European sword styles, but they look amazing similar to kenjutsu styles. The Chinese and Okinawans used sword and shield and the Japanese considered the shield disadvantageous in close combat having faced them. In skilled hands, the sword is the shield

  • While a katana is just a hunk of metal, it's the weapon system that makes it formidable in the idea that it is a weapon, a school, and an entire mental discipline. It is the point where the weapon becomes part of you and no longer separate from your identity that makes it unique. I do understand that the Germans and Italians had something very similar with the longsword and I've had moments where my foil and sabre are part of me. I've also seen a good number of bokken vs. spear or glaive..

  • and the added range is not a sure thing for victory.

  • @kendoka0girl added range is not a instawin button. Of course it is not, I know from experience. But think about it for a moment. From your nick, I can think you practice kendo right? now imagine a duel of 2 equally good kendokas. One with a 60cm katana against other with a 100cm katana (both blades properly balanced, balance is VERY important) if both contenders are EQUALLY SKILLED, the guy with the shorter blade is going to have a very hard time. Reach is not everything, but it is an advantage

  • im not really into sword and shield styles... but i gota ask, when you tap the opponents blade and wave your arms, sword and shield arm. is that apart of the dicipline or your own... style? or something like that XD

  • You with the Langes Mes, Ive watched all your vids that I can find, you are skilled. The lad with the katana, in this and other vids, has maybe never recieved combat training? or if so.....I dont want to offend him, but he is not a fighter.....

  • I don't think that shields were in use in historical Japan(?), so I'd say the Katana is simply not designed for countering an opponent like the Lange Messer guy.

  • + trainig = + power = victory

  • in welchem Bundesland seid ihr daheim? grüsse aus BW

    

  • @natterton Wiesbaden, Hessen.

  • ach schade

  • Great job! So much fun to watch! :D

  • COOL

  • Larger shields like the kite shield where used by simple infantrymen with less weaponstraining because they had to block arrows before engaging the enemy in melee (which usually a pile of men and pointy things, where proper blocking etc. was useless). The Buckler used here is more for one on one fighting or for infantry in loose formation with less armor. If he had used a large shield made for protecting against arrows in such a fight, he would be outmanouvered...

  • That wouldn't matter though, because as soon as the katana gets first shot, there's no way your gonna get used to his "fighting" cause youll be dead.

  • I think you guys did a great job making it realistic and safe. seems to me that the katana did better in the beginning from the reach advantage. but the sword and shield did better at the end once you guys got used to fighting each other. Do you think this the case?

  • @crayonman09 well observed, Sir.

    °v°

  • the guy with the katana is real bad, i guess he never really had some real kendo teaching, or he stopped after his first year.

  • @crayonman09 actually, I would say that reach is about the same. Because of body mechanics, wielding the same sword, you have greater reach using one hand then two. The messer is a little shorter then the Katana, but it's reach is about the same.

  • @crayonman09 reach doesnt mean anything here , if the other guy had a spear then mabye if put in the same situation i could show you why , the katana relies on swings and simple thrusts a shield allows you to negate most of that and push INTO the other guy which prevents him from really do much at all i've done it a thousand times and i dont even train with sword and shield , its pretty basic just cover with the shield and push into him then stab below orabove the shield and hes toast

  • why in the world is he using such a small shield? it should be a little bigger perhaps moon shaped so that it could drag away katana when it slams in to it

  • It's a buckler...Or perhaps a targe...I'm not quite sure which. Either way, they're very effective for fast block-strike combinations as well as shield bashing. Either way, I've never heard the merits of a moon-shield, but targes and bucklers are extremely applicable, and they won't drag you down.

  • @eidius1989 ~ Smaller shields equal a better view of your opponent and more mobility. Large shields while covering an area provide a poor view of where the enemy blade is hiding.

  • I find myself watching these videos alot, I like them ^_^

  • The more I watch videos like this, the more important/useful armor seems, no matter how 'good' or 'fast' you are. :)

  • Waki No kamae would not be advisable against an opponent with a shield! He knows which side you are striking from so he will always protect that side!

  • The guy with the sword and the shield has a huge tactical advantage over the katana. Believe it or not, that's a hard weapon combination to get around.

    I think you should upgrade your protective gear so that you can make these matches a bit more full contact.

  • he should have used a shotel and stiletto

  • I agree mostly with what you say, but that buckler seems woefully insufficient to me.

    Always a fan of the kite shield myself.

  • i no nothing about samurai art but at the very beginning when tht guy with the small shield did tricks with thats small sword of his couldnt you just raise your sword up really hard knocking him off balance temperarily while that happends your already in a stance where you could with massive force swing the katana right back down couldnt you do that and end the match that way?

  • sounds good - but ...

    the guy with the lange messer is a quite experienced and advanced fighter -if he sees me pulling up hard, he will step out and counter attack - and as you saw, we´r e minimal protected - in those sparring there is no space for massive force - we´ve to trust each other and control the force - otherwise we would end up badly injured and unfriendly - this is not, what we´re aiming for.

    tx for your thoughts.

    °v°

  • this 1 is stupid but after this 1 ill say a real possibility throw your sword at him lol tht should garuntee a point lol jk. anyways couldn't you try knocking the sword out of his hands like your still not hurting him because your only attacking the sword but couldnt you make him vulnerable by getting tht weapon out of his hands and just keep attacking till his puny shield cant defend anymore and judging by the size of the shield I'd say he cant defend for a very long time maybe 1 or 2 attacks.

  • look at the video when its at 0:58 seconds you both collide swords with each other right? you make an X. try to use force and bring tht sword down to his leg and strike you should expect the shield so after that use the katana to make like an upper cut i call it surprise attack i guess lol

  • I thought that with a small shield you should be concealing your weapon for unexpected attacks.

  • Is there anywhere a clip showing a kind of serious duel between katana and european sabre? I mean something like points fight. Where both opponents know their styles and want to win.

  • man, id love to do this, are yous part of a club? or is it just a few mates messing around?

  • tx italien,

    we´re a stick fighting training group.

  • Very interesting stuff. I've always wanted to pair off with some of the European MA guys.

    Thanks for sharing.

  • Zukuru, i was wondering about your weopoons: they sound metalic, when they hit each other, but they are not sharp obviously. where do you get such weapons? they also dont seem to be fragile, so they must be pretty expensive to buy!

  • I was wondering zukuru, in a real "battle", would you target his single hand? It seems like you are considerably faster (though much more exposed) and the outcome of the fight could be ended easily by disabling his wielding hand.

    Your videos are the best btw. I'm more of a judoku/grappler type, but these sword fights are beastly.

  • Hard to say - it´sdepending on the situation. I found, that the weapon hand of a langes messer whielder is quite well secured through the cross gard of the sword. It´s "easier" to target the shoulder or the bally or thrust the throat.

    But every opponent and every fight is different, what I said is for this pairing only. For me the strategy to survive can only be open minded flexibility.

    Tx for your polite comment !

    °v°

  • this is a great job u guys do here. it is very nice to see that people are so commited to martial arts.

    there is one major problem with all your fights among others.

    u often use a hard wooden or metal weapons in your sparring. your protecting suit is almost inexistable. hence u fight slowly or without power. or someone gets his hand severely cut and still keeps on fighting.and that does not correspond with the reality of an armed combat at all.

  • We fight in a ritual world - it´s more around technique and weapon control than beating up sparring partners.

    If we would use more amoury, we would run into higher risk to insure each other, because one start to hit harder.

    Less armour, more caution, as one has take care about the opponent and oneselfe to survive - for us it´s the better concept - but that´s just our philisopy - others might paractice different.

    Tx for your comment and your thoughts !

    °v°

  • that match I'd have to say the shield guy seemed to win the most of them

  • i like how it looks liek the katana guy gets most of the kills, but every time he leaves himself open to a sword blow to the head, which the messer guy moves to but doesnt bother actually striking, probably for safety reasons. he was using that shield in a very strange way, it was interesting but didnt seem to be working all that well, im all for improvisation, but he should work on that a little

  • sympa video!

    For the shield: the more it is tended in front of oneself, the better it protects (include of them obviously rest periods) and while going down a little on his supports, one optimizes his defense; by keeping the weapon on the shoulder, shield is allowed against effective and fast offensive.

    Thank you for the division!

  • This is a great video. I think the idea of including a buckler with the Langes Messer was a great idea. But I did not see the fighter using his buckler in the common way according to I.33 tradition. He could have had a better advantage if he paired the buckler with his sword-hand as a combined offensive threat.

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