lol pen and teller fails. How do you explain how most of nde experiencers have very similar experiences and how do you explain how the nde people know exactly what was going on in surgery while they were dead/
Agreed. I suggest all materialists to see the quantum eraser experiment, ' the experiment that debunked materialism', and then have them explain how the results of this experiment fit their preconceptions of materialism :)
@kirby4d It doesn't account for so many things. How come people can recall whats going on around them? They literally float over there bodies and accurately recall conversation as well as tools used in surgery. 30 marevelous seconds doesn't explain how full consciousness is taking place, in some cases even more vivid than in normal life. In dreams you don't even know your dreaming, these people know they are dead and have full consciousness.
I HAD AN NDE MAN AND IT WAS TRUE AND YOULL NEVER CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE! I KNOW WHAT I SAW AND IM GONNA CIRCLEJERK WITH LIKEMINDED PEOPLE TO MAKE ME FEEL BETTER
@chica0616 The truth is they think their conclusion is logic because they are materialists, they believe the mind is created by the brain and state it as fact. Yet they have another thing coming, they should study their philosophy, they should study Berley and Whitehead, things arent cut and dry. Its not obvious the brain dies with death, that is just an assumption of ignorance. I havn't had an near death experience but I do have the intellectual conviction that I am immortal.
This is so disappointing, these guys really don't know how to critical think, not only that but they ignore the facts. #1The centrifugal experiment the peoples brains are not clinically dead and therefore this does not apply. Second they do not explain how individuals can recount what happens in the operating room while there brain is not processing any information.
He should have just went for his doenuts right at the beginning and skipped the rest of his useless unintelligible show.Fatfuck
@soldatheero Brain death is a legal term, not an actual reality. Your brain still retains some function for hours after death AND dreams can occur in the 30 seconds that the blood is drained out.
NDE's have nothing to do with religion. It has been proven that people who were religious and have had these experiences became less religious in a dogmatic sense. Their view of reality and life and death completely changed and became more philosophical or buddhist.
I'm gonna have to be a skeptic leaning towards the side of the nde'ers. There seems to be more evidence of them as opposed to them not being real. Every person is entitled to their own opinion.
Dreams and experiences have never been and never will be the same. These scientists, experts or whatever name is suitable have no idea what they are talking about. I know a few people that have had experiences like these before and have had dreams as well and they are totally different. Both of these ignoramus' ignore the experiences of others because they are so bent on being right, This is clear deception and a plot by satan himself. Do not buy into this nonsense. My God is real and he is good
@marc123098 Wow that was absolutely brilliant, you should take a bow. I have no idea whoat that statement was created for but it honestly didn't serve it's purpose. I'm through with replying to ignorant comments made by people who have no idea of how bleek their future just might be. Please do not reply because I am ending this conversation, I was looking at some of my video comments and got interrupted by this ignorant comment, well I want no more of the stupidity, thank you
@Daethsoul767 It is overly apparent that you have way too much time on your hands, I just refuse to respond to childish grown ups who have to be right even when they are dead wrong. Honestly I have more important things to do than play foolish games with you, please don't take my lack of response as a sign of ignorance, instead take it as a denial of the stupidity that you display. You obviously need God more than anything, your intelligence is hiding from you.
@chica0616 I'm not going to lie, that is incredibly stupid. You believe that people actually angels when they're having a NDE or some other stupid idea about leaving their body or whatever. I find hilarious that this ONLY happens when people lose a ton of oxygen/blood to their brain. And as for childish grown ups that always want to be right, that would be you my good sir/madam. Understand the situation before you make a fool of yourself, look at the evidence instead of people's word.
@Daethsoul767 It's obvious that the only thing that you are doing is stating an uneducated opinion since the people that have gone through these events(including my husband) don't feel that way. You finding NDE's funny has absolutely no effect on me so why you would state this is beyond me. You seem to be the ignorant one who considers anything that you haven't gone through yourself impossible. Unless you are the creator of this universe, you can't tell me a thing. Have a nice day!
@chica0616 You must be a troll, nobody can be that stupid. I guess just some people just rather live in la la land than to look at actual evidence. You have a nice day! And tell your husband to rethink what he "saw".
@chica0616 You assume WAY to much, stop acting as if you know all the answers.
"one who considers anything that you haven't gone through yourself impossible."
When did I say this? When did I say anything that I haven't gone through is impossible? Get off your high horse, and take some advice from Penn & Teller.
@Daethsoul767 Exactly what I was thinking when you decided to reply to a comment that has nothing to do with you. What? It obviously went right past you so if your not intelligent enough to give me an intelligent response please keep it to yourself. Thanks and have a great day!!
I can't and will never understand why Penn & Teller wish to consider what someone else has experienced untrue. I will not consider any of the ramblings that Penn & Teller go on and on about especially if they've never experienced the same thing. Penn & Teller exhibit nothing but foolishness. There is no way that they can disprove any of the OBE's or NDE's. The only reason that they are complaining is because they want so bad to be correct. This video only proves that hell is real. God is real!!
Ketamine produces the same effects as near death experiences do. Does this prove that it's a chemical reaction in our brain that happens to be triggered in a state of extreme trauma and stress - or is it evidence of that the drug brings us closer to supernatural?
There is enough knowledge and testimony from every race and religion to help us along. Sometimes people use religion and think they have all the answers, but I think it is better to keep an open mind and realize that we don't know everything and sometimes it is ok to admit we don't understand.. To think that this Earth and everything on it came to be by some random events seems stupid to me. have an experience yourself,with an evil spirit, for example, and you will never dought again!
Does any one know a place in Scandinavia where there is this machine? I want to try it out! Did you see how those guys went in to NDE?! Man, I would so pay to experince one NDE. It would totaly suck if I died and didn't experince a NDE just because statistics says only 18% get them.
Religius people, if you disslike atheists, then you do as well disslike yourself. Do you belive in the Zeus god? Or the muslim god? What about thor? Oh but that makes you an atheist to their religion too you see.
How can they explain certain NDE cases where people go outside their body and can see things from vantage points they couldn't see when lying on the operating table, gurney, etc.? If NDE's are nothing more than vivid dreams, then why do they so profoundly change people's lives for the better? Why do people blind from birth all of the sudden have visions during an NDE? Penn may be in the tank for atheism and defends it with zealous fervor, but no equation or lab test can explain this.
The light that is seen while blacked out is the light as a result of the electricity from multitudes of neurons firing in the brain to restore normal brain function from the decreased blood flow. This isn't seen on other occasions where normal neurological functioning is not inhibited due to some kind of trauma, therefore it is not an everyday occurrence. Normal brain functioning is disrupted when the body dies, so this phenomenon is easily explained. There's nothing supernatural about it.
Children who describe relative they met on the other side in detail the could not have otherwise known (never overhearing talk about it, never seeing pictures) but able to describe physcially, their quirks, relatives who died decades before them. To me this is proof they cannot brush off. Checkmate. I challenge Pen & Teller and anyone to debunk that. The pilot cetrifuge tests don't address this. Athiests trying to deny this never do, it's the part they can't explain away. Penn & Teller failed.
@markdown01 Like anyone else, children can have false memories. This is perpetuated by stories of the deceased relatives by other relatives, traditions kept alive by the remaining relatives, etc. Also, children are naturally curious and imaginative, therefore they could have found pictures of these relatives by exploring. I encourage you to read the studies on false memories by Dr. Elizabeth Loftus.
@markdown01 nobody's going to convince you. That's your belief system and it's deeply entrenched. You cannot prove that there is an afterlife, and honestly, why try? If you believe it, go ahead, just don't make a big deal of it.
@paperwingsacoustic You've just blurted generalistic defense of your position since you can't counter one thing I've said. Pen & Teller only address one aspect (out of body experiences) of the NDE process. When a child sees a relative during a NDE that they never met, or learned about or saw pictures of, and describes them as if they did actually meet them, and there are many cases of this, that is proof to me. Counter that, you can't. They can't, that's why they didnt try. Don't generalize.
@evelsteev Intellectual cowardice. Simplistic answer that disproves nothing. Dreaming of dead relatives does not in itself disprove anything. You take an easy way out. You, Penn/Teller, Hitchens, whoever, can't disrpove again. How does a child who never saw a dead relative, they never met or saw pictures of or heard a discription of, have a NDE & return describing them precisely? Answer the question. Disprove it, you can't.
@markdown01 apparently you don't know how logic works. If you make a claim, IE: "God exists," for example, then you must back that claim with evidence, for which you have none, other than people telling a story. I'm not making the claim that you can't disprove that NDE's exist, but rather you can't prove that they do. Otherwise you can't disprove the existence of leprechauns. Does that mean THEY exist? Let's put it this way: disprove I'm the Pope.
@evelsteev Again, total diversionary attempt. Read what I typed. Explain how a child can describe in detail a relative who died long before them, who they never met, never heard described to them, never saw pictures of? You can't, so you go back to predictable standard athiest arguments. I'm not specifically 'proving God', I am saying NDE experiences in those cases are likely real, since there is no other explanation as to how a child can describe someone they've never met, seen, or learned of.
@markdown01 since when is empirical evidence a "diversionary attempt?" Maybe in a dream, perhaps, but not in reality. You're using the classic argument from ignorance again. "I can't explain something, so it MUST be supernatural, (god, psychic powers,etc.)" providing that the claims were actual in the first place. Speculation is not proof. I'm deeply happy that you're not a detective or a lawyer.
@markdown01 Have I? Or have you? The memory is a curious thing and the mind, especially in children, is capable of amazing feats of imagination. My guess as to how children could see relatives they've never met in a NDE is through the power of suggestion. I would like to see your supposed proof, as the burden of proof lies squarely on the shoulders of those trying to prove something, rather than those who doubt it. Link some legitimate stories if there are as many as you claim
@paperwingsacoustic What's with all the intellectual cowardice? Google is your friend. Look it up. There are dozens of not hundreds of accounts of kids seeing those who passed before them who they never met, they never saw pictures of, and never heard 'suggestions' of. You're inserting that into the debate desperately. If you can't counter what I've said, make stuff up. Again, explain how the kid describes in detail someone they have not met, seen, heard of, or had 'suggestions' of. You can't.
@markdown01 I want you to post links so that I can debunk your best examples point by point. You scared? You should also know that I don't take Youtube video comment debates, or you, very seriously. And make stuff up? Like an afterlife? An omnipotent passive-aggressive father figure in the sky? Sure, anybody can make that up.
@paperwingsacoustic Look up '11 year old went to heaven' on YouTube. This is one of many. I don't have links to a lot of others I have read about in many books about it. You'll likely say the kids lie, or parents told them to, or whatever. Let's try this. If you met a child who had a NDE, meeting family they have never met while alive, or heard described. If you knew those things for a fact. Try to deny that one.
i believe in near death experiences, people who say its the activity of the brain
how can that be when the brain is dead at the point of death how can u think when ur near death and if its all in your mind how come children have near death experiences they have no knowledge of the spiritual realm or religion or anything..
no dmt no nothing. must be true science can never make a link to the spiritual world its physically impossible..
@mansionsofsaints584 Actually, just because the person has died does not mean that their brain is no longer functioning. The moment a person stops breathing, he or she is considered dead, but, the brain continues to fire neurons for several hours afterward. It is estimated that the auditory cortex is one of the last brain functions to die, so a dead person can technically hear on average 2 hours after death. This is why medical coroners cannot pronounce death until at least 1 hour has passed.
Which is why when death is declared changed 20 years ago. When your heart stops or you stop breathing, you are not dead, anyone can tell you this. When your brain stops functioning you are dead, period. To date, not one single person has died and come back.
Also, you are way off on the time to brain death. 4-6 minutes, that's it, not one hour. Every person who has had blood flow and/or oxygen restored past that 6 minute mark has no brain functions.
i believe in near death experiences, people who say its the activity of the brain
how can that be when the brain is dead at the point of death how can u think when ur near death and if its all in your mind how come children have neard eath experiences they have no knowledge of the spiritual realm or religion or anything..
no dmt no nothing. must be true science can never make a link to the spiritual world its physically impossible..
not dream like – that in fact it is more real than our everyday reality. I’ve heard it said that when they return it feels as though this reality is the dream state. There is something that resonates beautifully from someone who has touched the other side and returned – conversely there is something else that resonates from the large gentleman and his silent sidekick. Email me if you want to discuss further …
Hmnn…making a buck from promoting NDE’s is probably equal to making a buck refuting them.
NDE’s can be triggered by interrupting blood flow to the brain. Centrifuge tests bring people into similar beginning stages of an NDE – I’m not sure how that disputes the spiritual significance of an NDE or life after death for that matter. There are so many holes in the loud gentleman’s script that I don’t know where to start. The vast majority of NDE’rs claim that their NDE is
How do you explain patients explaining E.R. procedures, equipment used by doctors, while patient is unconscious? Kids naming distant relatives they have never known to their parents?
@profaneslave are you telling us things you have heard? cuz i have heard a lot of bull shit like people who see big foot.... plus there is usually a good reason for everything.. kids hear about relatives and see them in old photographs and that information is stored in the brain in a complex way. are you saying a parent never names a relative around their child even once?? think about it
A good lie trumps a bad truth, every time. You see, I'd rather trip-balls for a couple of minutes, and believe that my identity is actually surviving biological-death, than noiselessly scream inside my own head completely aware that I'm on my final shit-slide into oblivion. Despite that, they say that the death-hallucination is the most fucked-up, out of this universe mind-trip this side of the grave. You have to find the sliver-lining, folks.
these poor saps should go back to their farsical moral relativity --and stop judging something you dont even know a dang thing about ---when you die lets see how intelectual you are ??? we shall have a little humble chat about that then.
I find this video just a bit abrasive and narrow. I think they have missed the point about how so many people completely reappraise their lives after such experiences and how they see the world completely differently. I think this is a good thing. P&T are really just trying to entertain rather than enlighten. Try to see beyond the superficial. Simply using big words to explain such as Hypoxia etc does nothing to explain this phenomenon which could help us all to live better lives
Carl Gustav Jung had a "near death/out of body experience' and writes about it in great detail in his published memoirs, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections." Great read, unless you're one of these ill-educated pussies who scoff at the idea of the Spirit, or whatever the hip kids are calling 'it' these days.
simulation doesnt disprove anything.we can simulate real life events that we know really occures.does that make these real life events not real because we can simulate them?no.and theres alot more evidence than what they gave here.anyone who truly trust penn and teller without truly researching are fools
I'm confused having the blood sucked out of your brain is simulated dying or is it real dying? I imagine if the blood is removed from your brain and stays removed you die in a few minutes, so it's kind of like teasing death by having one foot in deaths door. Dying is a process it's not a light switch.
Also where are the life reviews, meeting of dead relatives, etc? P&T Bullshit is Bullshit and they are the ones making money out of BULLSHIT! HYPOCRITES!
Low oxygen to a severe degree can cause a near death experience. It can be induced without even being near death which it is also known to cause very vivid hallucinations. If you remained with such low oxygen by stopping the blood flow through your brain, then you'd die. But temporarily cut it off, you are "near death" and since blood in the brain = brain activity. All sorts of weird stuff can happen during such decreased blood flow.
And I'm pretty sure they already dealt with talking with dead relatives and/or meeting them in season 1 with the episode discussing communicating with the dead. Interviewing people who claim to have talked to the dead is meaningless, considering you can't prove any such thing happened. Which is in of itself obvious bullshit. Anyone can say they talked to their dead relatives.
how come some instances see and hear things in other rooms and different areas while thay are brain dead.. that has been proven and know doubt in my mind that there is something more when our souls leave our body.. open your eyes before you end up in a not so good place..no reincarnation, but there is no death to our souls..you will find out soon enough. Hope you make the right choice before your time is up..read the bible..it has been proven true time and again also
You have nothing to do guys! Spending time trying to discredit people who had an NDE. Pam Reynolds had her NDE while her brain was DEAD. She had no blood in her body and she could tell everything that happen during her surgerie.. That, they can't explain! Why are they so scare of life after death? because it would mean that their actions have a signification and they don't want to see that! I had an OBE and i can assure that it has NOTHING to do with a dream!
obviously her brain WASN'T dead..what's more likely jean, that there exists some spirit realm that our magical spirit goes to, somehow taking with it all of our personality traits, without a brain, or that it's an experience within our own mind?
@itzahazylife Her brain was not dead but was temporary non-functionnal cause without any blood in it! So it's obvious that it can't be her brain that did produce her NDE! The doctors killed her temporary to do the brain surgery and she went out of body and had an nde. She met her grand-mother and her uncle that are dead, she asked if the light is God and they said that the light is what happen when God breathes! Then her uncle push her into the body to come back, she felt it as a boom! REAL!
@kidkong584 I had few OBE myself and when we're out of our body we can see. And our vision is perfect. I coud see 360 degre and i could even make a ZOOM. I had a body made of energie and i could run and fly. It was FABULOUS! It was the most amazing thing i ever experience in my entire life! Vickie is blind in her physical body but when she was out of her body shw could see cause our spirit can see, the spirit sees up, down, right and left up front and in the back "at the same time"! Pure joy!
u start with far too many pre-conceived beliefs..scientists have discovered that the human brain still has consciousness when the brain is technically dead..this is the mysterious phenomenon science is faced with..we should start off by wondering if there is more to the human brain that we do not yet understand, instead of instantly thinking there's more to reality, and that there's some magical realm we float off to.
@itzahazylife I understand what you're saying but me i lived that experience so for me it not magical. I did really float up in the sky and it was real as it is right now! For me nde and OBE are as much real as anything else cause i've been on the other side. I had an OBE and went to my mom's house and i saw her talking on the phone and i heard her too. When i came back in my body i called her and told her what i've heard and she did confirm that it was exact! So this is the brain? No!
Personal experiences aren't proof of anything. For all we know, you are lying, since I can't exactly talk to your Mother and ask if she was just agreeing with you to not alarm you in anyway. Or she might be delusional, or you just made it up to try and deceive people into thinking such things happen. A lone personal experience is worthless, because it can't be verified to be anything else but a made up story, or a long hallucination. OBE's are natural phenomena. No other side.
@itzahazylife or we could also be open minded enough to also ponder whether if there is more to reality than we currently want to accept.there is a possibility that its simply a function of the brain that we have yet to understand but it could also be something else like a spirit of some sort that lives on.and your replies sound very biased which is bad if your a scientist.science is ever changing and we need less dogmatic scientist and more free thinkers.like einstien
of course there is a possibility that consciousness is this immaterial phenomenon that transcends life and is sustained after death, but, before we start feeling so strongly about such leaps in speculation, we should just stick to the more rational concept that there's probably just more to the brain..it's not really a matter of stubborn dogma, just a matter of relaxing a bit on such major speculation.
@jeanpierrel LSD (Acid) and DMT cause out of body experiences. DMT is made in your body and released at death. Your brain can stay alive for awhile despite the fact the rest of your body is dead. Which is why they can come back to life.
Ignorant magicians, speaking presumptuously to matters they obviously know nothing about. These clowns better to stick to pulling rabbits out of hats.
I don't like how religious people involve/mix NDE's with Jesus and god
~but~
I also don't like how some think these experiences are nothing more than dreams..I think there's just more to it than that. Even if it is just a natural phenomenon, why do we have to be so dismissive?
@Illyria23alyssa Because we don't have a real explanation on this point, and speculating without any real data or evidence on the subject is useless.
Maybe a few years in the future we won't be so dismissive because science will understand what is actually happening, but in the mean time is better to be dismissive than to go to crazy conclusions, like the supernatural ones.
We don't; you can marvel at it all you want to. Personally, I think the human brain is pretty amazing. I just don't believe in metaphysics and dismiss people who try to "prove" them to others (and sell shit too) based on nothing.
@gobio1965 The "Mr." who is talking is Pen Jillette. He's kinda famous for being blunt and honest. I personally don't think calling someone "guy" is disrespectful.
I have some problem with the fact that they asked a psychologist to explain a neurological function, near a computer screen representing a brain for good measure.
While I don't particularly buy into NDE they are using one of the same tactics they criticize: showing someone non qualified near some techy looking imagery to give him credibility.
Okay science is how man perceives the world around him--this field is DYNAMIC because we DON'T know everything. Its more freightening to suggest that we are PUPPETS of our own anatomy, if we had a CHOICE in our behavior that would suggest we have a realm of higher conciousness. Look up Grigorievich Rodonai! Hell there was a study I came across in which a SCIENTIST claimed there is a possiblity of eternal life as people had new knowledge after their brain activity flat lined and bounced back.
WOW. LOVE THIS SHOW.........BUT.......This episode of Bullshit is just that....Bullshit. Throwing out random percentages in order to convince the public that N.D.E's are fake. Firstly, to all atheists out there explain how the MAJORITY of these people who have REAL nde's share the same explanation. Long tunnel, meeting with higher power, vividly explaining what happened to them while "dead" in DETAIL to those around them. The "test" subjects explained NOTHING 100% NOTHING that was like an NDE
I don't know what is after death, I don't even mind the concept of "god"...but when you start saying "religion", "messiah", "hell & heaven", "worship", "Holy book", etc. the bullshit-meter breaks.
Winnery wasn't torturing the pilots, he was helping them develop the ability to tolerate the high G-loads that they would routinely encounter in combat.
@truthaddict11 I'm just saying (non religious specific) that to say that one KNOWS what happens after death is silly (whether it be a belief in something or a certainty in nothing). I'm saying that for both theist and atheist (imo of course). So, I'm certainly not saying I know :P. Besides, since these people didn't die, I fully accept that their experiences were probably hallucinations. But no one can know for sure until the real thing happens to them imo
"Actually, us "skeptics" are taken VERY seriously. Especially since we're 99% of the scientific community"
The only ones taking you seriously are yourselves, everyone else can see right through the b.s.
Btw, I think that everyone should be skeptical. Healthy, OPEN MINDED, skepticism is necessary in our world. But in the recent skeptic movement, it's actually close-minded cynicism disguised as being skeptical...and it's as dogmatic as any religion.
And btw, on your advice to read up on Michael Persinger...he claims to be able to re-create an nde in a lab, and he is a liar.
There is a documentary where he put his 'god helmet' on subjects which he said would recreate an nde. What the people saw were weird and random skull like figures and horse shaped animals. The fact that he would even compare that to an nde makes him lose all credibility.
But I guess you'll pretty much swallow anything these days when you're trained to be a skeptic
True, but to a certain degree. There are plenty of atheists out there who are just as dogmatic as religious fundamentalists and refuse to accept any evidence that goes against their way of thinking. The overall evidence from the following fields highly suggest that consciousness is independent of the brain.:
nde's
reincarnation
genuine mediums
psi (which has been proven)
death bead visions, etc
Do some research with an open mind and you might be surprised as to what you discover.
If you want the evidence, you can go to openmindsite(dot)com and dowload the free pdf. It covers some other fields of evidence as well but if you want to just look at the psi data, it's covered on pages 10-16.
The fact that you said the words "proven scientifically" shows your lack of understanding for the scientific method. Things in science aren't "proven". They are observed through experimentation, recorded into evidence, then molded into a theory that fits the data... or they are falsified through that process.
The people at Open Mind Site are doing the reverse. They are formulating theories about how the world works and digging for evidence. Use more than 1 source for your research.
And you wonder why you so called "skeptics" aren't being taken seriously anymore.
"They are formulating theory's about how the world works and digging for evidence"... are you kidding? They're pointing to the overwhelming evidence done through repeated experiments that point to the fact that the results could not have been obtained by chance. You James Randi clones are starting to get more desperate than the creationists you despise so much...it's acutally a quite amusing
Actually, us "skeptics" are taken VERY seriously. Especially since we're 99% of the scientific community.
And they have no repeated experiments. The only completed, published studies that have included repeated experiments in a controlled environment are the Olaf Blanke, Ehrrson, and Micheal Persinger studies... all of which found that OBE's and NDE's were chemical reactions of the brain and nothing more.
Hard to claim they're spiritual when they can be replicated through drugs
Saying that nde's have been replicated by drugs is borderline laughable.
"all of which found that OBE's and NDE's were chemical reactions of the brain and nothing more"
Wrong. NDE's remain an unexplained phenomeon to this day. As a matter of fact with more research being done on the subject, the more the evidence continues to pile up and highly suggest that they are genuine glimpses of the other side.
Actually, it's not. Watch the video. They replicated NDE's through the use of a centrifuge. Also, NDE's have found to be caused by a psychadelic chemical called Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) through a study done by Dr. Rick Strassman from the University of New Mexico. People given this chemical reported the same exact visions as brought on by an NDE... in fact, people who had had a real NDE reported the effects were the same.
A cited studies backing my point... where are yours?
-Receiving all knowledge of the universe and understanding why you came into this life in the first place
-being told you still have some things to do before you can come back
-A feeling of unconditional love that the english language can't begin to describe --Going to other parts of the hospital while out of body and hearing/seeing conversations later verified to be accurate
Does this video sound like they replicated anything of what I just mentioned?
Actually, if you bothered to read about ANY of the studies I mentioned, you would know that those are the EXACT symptoms that people described, with the exception of any verifiable accuracy to their OBE. See, as it turns out, people actually "observed" themselves or other places during the artificial NDEs... but they were completely unable to accurately describe events they didn't pre-witness or did not happen in the room. I chalk the "accuracy" of your CONJECTURE to witness failure.
I already know about those studies and they are highly fabricated.
"the EXACT symptoms that people described"
Wrong (again). Those subjects had the 'feeling' as if they were out of body, seeming as if their legs were getting shorter..etc Hardly constitutes a full blown out of body experience seeing EVERYTHING going on in a heightened state of consciousness (ie..dust on the cabinets above, seeing your own lifeless body being worked on and the movements of everyobody in full detail)
Let me rephrase then, only about 18% of subjects reported those symptoms, the rest reported other symptoms such as the ones you refer to. For instance, in the Olaf Blanke study (one amongst many others), those subjects (some of whom had had what you would refer to as a "real" NDE before) reported almost those exact experiences (including speaking to dead relatives... of course, I've done that in my dreams, myself).
Quit attacking peer-reviewed studies and post some of your own.
Oh so its ok for the materialists to do so, but nobody else can. Why dont you look at how the peer reviewed, replicated psi studies continue to be attacked. Or how Michael Shermer attacked Pim Van Lomells study on ndes which was published in the Lancet, and how he was made to look like a fool by Lomell who pointed out his misrepresentations and poor review of the results.
Thanks for pointing out the double standard though, Ill keep that in mind
I'm not saying anything about PSI right now. I'm talking about NDEs. And I believe it was Ingram and Chopra that put out the strongest critcism of Shermer's interpretation of Lomell's results. And I'm not attacking, I'm calling it into question. Attacking is doing things like calling my arguments robotic or claiming double standards. For instance, I don't like the way in which he verifies information from his subjects. It's all very vulnerable to post-hoc fallacies by the subjects
Again. In what way are they highly fabricated? What evidence do you have of this? The scientific bodies that peer-reviewed these studies didn't seem to think so.
And the people who claim to have "seen everything" are merely that... you have to realize that NO ONE was there to record or verify their claims except after the fact. You are trusting the word of people whose brains were SHUTTING DOWN... it's pure conjecture, which has no place in science.
Doctors and eye witnesses are there to verify and document their claims. Why do you think theres a lot of new research underway costing millions of dollars. Is it because these people just told some whacky stories?
Ill take the word of the doctors who were there and say that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY these people couldve known what they know through normal means, over some armchair skeptic calling people delusional, but thats just me
Doctors are human, and just as vulnerable to the fallacies of human memory. But let's take their word for truth... how come in follow up studies done by the researchers I've listed before, none of the subjects experiencing OBEs could tell them what was on a high shelf? They could describe the rest of the room that they could see/had seen...
How about that people who had had real NDEs were able to have the same experience through the intake of DMT?
"And the people who claim to have "seen everything" are merely that.."
So now you know what these people experienced and are speaking for themnoted.
You are trusting the word of people whose brains were SHUTTING DOWN
So let me get this straight, a brain somehow generates an image from above of whats going on, complete with movements and resuscitation efforts, and this just happens to be at a time of near or in some cases clinical death...sounds logical, thanks for clearing that up
Here's the thing. Our brains are actually very inaccurate. They fill in missing information with assumptions all the time. Again, read up on some cognitive psychology for a full picture... but let me pose an example.
Did you know that every time you shift your eyes, your eyes actually stop transmitting information to your brain for the duration of the shift? But you get a full, uninterrupted image. That's because your brain fills in what it doesn't see based on it's own assumptions.
These are not tricks of the brain, anyone who has had an out of body experience will tell you that there is no mistaking it. There is absolutely no question that you are out of your physical body. Universities have put out open calls to test people claiming to be able to regularly go out of body, and the subjects were able to identify images that were either impossible to physically see or in some cases even locked in cabinets/storage areas (continued)
@dwywsol@dwywsol No question, you say? Have you ever heard of the term brains in vats? Our perception is guided entirely but what our brain says we are feeling/seeing/etc. If we are capable of perceiving a "feeling" of being out of our body, our brain/mind/whatever is capable of tricking ourselves into thinking that we are.
Funny how you completely ignore the evidence and studies I presented.
I'm not going to debate this matter any longer since the only thing you so called 'skeptics' are looking for is anything that will validate your viewpoints, even if it's from 2 ignorant vegas magicians who know nothing about the subject.
Read the literature, examine the evidence (and maybe try actually reading an nde or two) and come up with your own conclusions.
Logic does not validate my viewpoint? It is as I said. As clearly as you cannot prove that the universe was not created 4 seconds ago, you cannot prove you are not a brain in a vat, with your entire perception of the world being manipulated by a malevolent force outside of your control. There IS a question about whether you are out of your physical body, purely because you cannot logically prove that your physical body exists. Just try it.
Why do you automatically assume that logic is on your side, it isn't (and don't start with the 'creationist' label, cause I'm not religious)
Logic is on the side of the millions of experiencers who KNOW that they were out of their body"s, watching everything unfold from a bird's eye view during their life-threateniing event.
And sure I can't prove that I'm not a 'brain in a vat', just like you can't prove that life wasn't planted on Earth by pink unicorns. What's your point?
@dwywsol My point is that, if, you cannot logically prove you exist, you cannot possibly prove that near-death experiences are real. The same thing applies to everything else. I was just being a dick, to be honest. Ignore me. :P
And from the Lancet published paper I pointed out earlier, there was a case of an old man who was brought into the hospital in a full coma, eyes closed the whole time. After he was revived, he was able tell a nurse where she put his dentures because she had forgot (he pointed out the exact cabinet and drawer) because according to him, he was watching the whole scene from above.
@JohnTaylor5675 thats all very well but when your heart has stopped beating and the brain goes into flatline there is no medical explanation as to how people are still felling emotions and hearing what is going on around them.
Actually, sure there is. It's actually fairly simple... they're not hearing anything at the time. Let me elaborate... The brain is a tricky thing.
For instance, did you know your vision shuts down every time you move your eyes? But you still get a uninterrupted view of the world whenever you look at something new. That's because your brain fills in the stuff that's missing based on patterns your subconscious recognizes before and after your eyes shut down.
And btw, at what point during these 'replicated nde's' did these subjects meet and have conversations with their dead relatives and friends? (in some cases people they didn't know were dead)
At what point did they have a life review detailing all of positive and negative interactions with other people?
At what point did they have an encounter with a being of light that radiated an ineffable, unearthly feeling of love?
Saying that nde's have been replicated by drugs is borderline laughable.
"found that OBE's and NDE's were chemical reactions of the brain and nothing more"
Wrong. NDE's remain an unexplained phenomeon to this day. As a matter of fact with more research being done on the subject, the more the evidence continues to pile up and highly suggest that they are genuine glimpses of the other side
Actually, from everything I've seen, the evidence is piling up against. People who'd had an actual NDE were also brought into studies conducted by Dr. rich Strassman. They claimed that what they saw/experienced when high on DMT was the same as when they were resuscitated.
We also cannot discount Richard Kinseher's work into the subject. All in all, we're developing some very strong neuro-biological explanations for the phenomenon.
Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of the afterlife. See, there's absolutely no way to prove what people are seeing is or isn't the afterlife, because, by definition, that is a spiritual matter. It cannot be detected or measured. At worst, you're putting forward a Russel's Teapot.
At best, you're possibly witnessing a new physical phenomenon and automatically assigning it a "spiritual" origin, when any number of other explanations are just as likely.
More evidence for you: Dr. Penny Sartori did a 5 year study where she divided up 2 groups. One group was cardiac patients who said they had an nde including the out of body part, and the other group who did not have an nde.
She asked the group who had an nde to describe the resuscitation efforts, and every single one of them was able to accurately describe what was going on, giving blow by blow details and specific information.
She then interviewed the other group who did not have an nde, to try to describe what was going on the best they could, 80% of those people were way off in giving their description and made serious mistakes. The other 20% gave just general descriptions based on what they saw in medical tv shows. Dr. Michael Sabom replicated this study independently the exact same results, as well as Pim Van Lomell who also did an independent study with 344 patients, also with the same results
As a side note... I've read 21 Days. More of the same stuff that's been going on for thousands of years...
They find singular, second-hand events and use them as evidence for something that can not be measured or replicated in a controlled environment. They are choosing the easy way of attributing it to things like "psi" rather than trying to find the actual physical mechanics behind the event.
From Olympus to Intelligent Design... people just don't seem to learn. Not real science.
Nonsense. It may not be 'real science' to you because it happens to conflict with your way of thinking. These experiments have been done for over a century, and are currently being done, by top scientists, using the same scientific method applied to any other field.
"They are choosing the easy way of attributing it to things like "psi" rather than trying to find the actual physical mechanics behind the event." -Where exactly is your evidence for this?
No... it's not real science to me because their "experiments" consist of interviewing people post-hoc (that's after the event has passed). That's a big no-no in research, considering how incredibly unreliable people's memories are.
The day they get replicable results in a controlled experiment, then get it published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, I'll take them seriously and believe. But how much of this has shown up in a peer-reviewed scientific journal? None...
Just as I thought...another close minded materialist who claims to have looked at the evidence, but in reality just making baseless assertions. The experiments have been replicated, hundreds if not thousands of times, independently I might add, and published in scientific journals. I'm not gonna waste any more time on the subject since you obviously don't know anything about it.
Those who accept the position that these are dreams or hallucinations, ignore the fact that virtually all of these experiences involve the same basic events.
Furthermore, there are countless, confirmed accounts of people who accurately report events that occurred WHEN they were in cardiac arrest - this should not be possible.
We currently do not know where consciousness arises, but there is serious scientific work taking place in this area right now. Have a look at Sam Parnia's work
lol pen and teller fails. How do you explain how most of nde experiencers have very similar experiences and how do you explain how the nde people know exactly what was going on in surgery while they were dead/
EhsaunOwns 6 days ago in playlist penn and teller
@EhsaunOwns Rewatch the video and you'll find your answer. ;)
D0nutHutSlut 4 days ago
@D0nutHutSlut he never explained how the nde experiencers could know what was going on in surgery while they were unconcious
EhsaunOwns 3 days ago
Truth is you just think it is impossible because you are a materialist and likely don't even know it. You think matter is reality, but perception is.
soldatheero 1 week ago
@soldatheero
Agreed. I suggest all materialists to see the quantum eraser experiment, ' the experiment that debunked materialism', and then have them explain how the results of this experiment fit their preconceptions of materialism :)
AstralEtheric 1 week ago
@kirby4d It doesn't account for so many things. How come people can recall whats going on around them? They literally float over there bodies and accurately recall conversation as well as tools used in surgery. 30 marevelous seconds doesn't explain how full consciousness is taking place, in some cases even more vivid than in normal life. In dreams you don't even know your dreaming, these people know they are dead and have full consciousness.
soldatheero 1 week ago
A study of Dutch hospital patients found 18% of those revived from cardiac arrest had NDEs. The same proportion as James Whinnery.
kirby4d 1 week ago
I HAD AN NDE MAN AND IT WAS TRUE AND YOULL NEVER CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE! I KNOW WHAT I SAW AND IM GONNA CIRCLEJERK WITH LIKEMINDED PEOPLE TO MAKE ME FEEL BETTER
kirby4d 1 week ago
@chica0616 The truth is they think their conclusion is logic because they are materialists, they believe the mind is created by the brain and state it as fact. Yet they have another thing coming, they should study their philosophy, they should study Berley and Whitehead, things arent cut and dry. Its not obvious the brain dies with death, that is just an assumption of ignorance. I havn't had an near death experience but I do have the intellectual conviction that I am immortal.
soldatheero 2 weeks ago
@soldatheero Isnt that cute
kirby4d 1 week ago
This is so disappointing, these guys really don't know how to critical think, not only that but they ignore the facts. #1The centrifugal experiment the peoples brains are not clinically dead and therefore this does not apply. Second they do not explain how individuals can recount what happens in the operating room while there brain is not processing any information.
He should have just went for his doenuts right at the beginning and skipped the rest of his useless unintelligible show.Fatfuck
soldatheero 2 weeks ago
@soldatheero Brain death is a legal term, not an actual reality. Your brain still retains some function for hours after death AND dreams can occur in the 30 seconds that the blood is drained out.
kirby4d 1 week ago
All the stupid under me is really depressing.
bud389 2 weeks ago
"Jesus Christ on a stick" LMFAO
SkepticStream 1 month ago
DMT gets released in the brain when shit like this happens makes you trip the fugg out
RiverVaJJ 2 months ago
This tunnel of light is a tunnel of bullshit..
jerico641 5 months ago
NDE's have nothing to do with religion. It has been proven that people who were religious and have had these experiences became less religious in a dogmatic sense. Their view of reality and life and death completely changed and became more philosophical or buddhist.
NLPCPNL 5 months ago
I'm gonna have to be a skeptic leaning towards the side of the nde'ers. There seems to be more evidence of them as opposed to them not being real. Every person is entitled to their own opinion.
jl4e23 6 months ago
Dreams and experiences have never been and never will be the same. These scientists, experts or whatever name is suitable have no idea what they are talking about. I know a few people that have had experiences like these before and have had dreams as well and they are totally different. Both of these ignoramus' ignore the experiences of others because they are so bent on being right, This is clear deception and a plot by satan himself. Do not buy into this nonsense. My God is real and he is good
chica0616 6 months ago
@chica0616
If god is real and he is good, then he would never create someone as ignorant as you. The proof is in your face yet you deny it...
marc123098 3 months ago
@marc123098 Wow that was absolutely brilliant, you should take a bow. I have no idea whoat that statement was created for but it honestly didn't serve it's purpose. I'm through with replying to ignorant comments made by people who have no idea of how bleek their future just might be. Please do not reply because I am ending this conversation, I was looking at some of my video comments and got interrupted by this ignorant comment, well I want no more of the stupidity, thank you
chica0616 3 weeks ago
@chica0616 LOLWUT?
Daethsoul767 3 months ago
@Daethsoul767 It is overly apparent that you have way too much time on your hands, I just refuse to respond to childish grown ups who have to be right even when they are dead wrong. Honestly I have more important things to do than play foolish games with you, please don't take my lack of response as a sign of ignorance, instead take it as a denial of the stupidity that you display. You obviously need God more than anything, your intelligence is hiding from you.
chica0616 3 weeks ago
@chica0616 I'm not going to lie, that is incredibly stupid. You believe that people actually angels when they're having a NDE or some other stupid idea about leaving their body or whatever. I find hilarious that this ONLY happens when people lose a ton of oxygen/blood to their brain. And as for childish grown ups that always want to be right, that would be you my good sir/madam. Understand the situation before you make a fool of yourself, look at the evidence instead of people's word.
Daethsoul767 3 weeks ago
@Daethsoul767 It's obvious that the only thing that you are doing is stating an uneducated opinion since the people that have gone through these events(including my husband) don't feel that way. You finding NDE's funny has absolutely no effect on me so why you would state this is beyond me. You seem to be the ignorant one who considers anything that you haven't gone through yourself impossible. Unless you are the creator of this universe, you can't tell me a thing. Have a nice day!
chica0616 3 weeks ago
@chica0616 You must be a troll, nobody can be that stupid. I guess just some people just rather live in la la land than to look at actual evidence. You have a nice day! And tell your husband to rethink what he "saw".
Daethsoul767 3 weeks ago
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@chica0616 You assume WAY to much, stop acting as if you know all the answers.
"one who considers anything that you haven't gone through yourself impossible."
When did I say this? When did I say anything that I haven't gone through is impossible? Get off your high horse, and take some advice from Penn & Teller.
Daethsoul767 3 weeks ago
@Daethsoul767 Exactly what I was thinking when you decided to reply to a comment that has nothing to do with you. What? It obviously went right past you so if your not intelligent enough to give me an intelligent response please keep it to yourself. Thanks and have a great day!!
chica0616 3 weeks ago
I can't and will never understand why Penn & Teller wish to consider what someone else has experienced untrue. I will not consider any of the ramblings that Penn & Teller go on and on about especially if they've never experienced the same thing. Penn & Teller exhibit nothing but foolishness. There is no way that they can disprove any of the OBE's or NDE's. The only reason that they are complaining is because they want so bad to be correct. This video only proves that hell is real. God is real!!
chica0616 6 months ago
Ketamine produces the same effects as near death experiences do. Does this prove that it's a chemical reaction in our brain that happens to be triggered in a state of extreme trauma and stress - or is it evidence of that the drug brings us closer to supernatural?
TuucciZ 7 months ago
They are wrong, they are disrespectful, they are uneducated, they only provide the worst examples. They are morons
Niwram 7 months ago
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I like Penn and Teller, but this time they are wrong! But not need to argue they will in time find out for themselves, for SURE!!
Maforen108 7 months ago
I like Penn and teller, but this time they are wrong,,, But they will in time find out for themselves m this one is not bullshit...
Maforen108 7 months ago
There is enough knowledge and testimony from every race and religion to help us along. Sometimes people use religion and think they have all the answers, but I think it is better to keep an open mind and realize that we don't know everything and sometimes it is ok to admit we don't understand.. To think that this Earth and everything on it came to be by some random events seems stupid to me. have an experience yourself,with an evil spirit, for example, and you will never dought again!
johnjesse100 7 months ago
0:00 cool face
SaMoVArr 8 months ago
Does any one know a place in Scandinavia where there is this machine? I want to try it out! Did you see how those guys went in to NDE?! Man, I would so pay to experince one NDE. It would totaly suck if I died and didn't experince a NDE just because statistics says only 18% get them.
Religius people, if you disslike atheists, then you do as well disslike yourself. Do you belive in the Zeus god? Or the muslim god? What about thor? Oh but that makes you an atheist to their religion too you see.
oratadin 9 months ago
Jesus Christ On A Stick
TehEliteOne 9 months ago
Man, this NDE must be funny than every fucking drug together in this world. This should be putted in a bottle and saled in Walmart. hahaha!
I love various lights and I'm stoned. I think that's because we are mammals, right?! That's may attract our attetion.
AngeloNoel 9 months ago
How can they explain certain NDE cases where people go outside their body and can see things from vantage points they couldn't see when lying on the operating table, gurney, etc.? If NDE's are nothing more than vivid dreams, then why do they so profoundly change people's lives for the better? Why do people blind from birth all of the sudden have visions during an NDE? Penn may be in the tank for atheism and defends it with zealous fervor, but no equation or lab test can explain this.
6672rock 9 months ago
@6672rock Did you not watch the full clip? The guy in the centrifuge was watching himself from the 3rd person while unconscious
ukLeeham720 9 months ago
The light that is seen while blacked out is the light as a result of the electricity from multitudes of neurons firing in the brain to restore normal brain function from the decreased blood flow. This isn't seen on other occasions where normal neurological functioning is not inhibited due to some kind of trauma, therefore it is not an everyday occurrence. Normal brain functioning is disrupted when the body dies, so this phenomenon is easily explained. There's nothing supernatural about it.
Mandy17BrutalHonesty 10 months ago
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Mandy17BrutalHonesty 10 months ago
Children who describe relative they met on the other side in detail the could not have otherwise known (never overhearing talk about it, never seeing pictures) but able to describe physcially, their quirks, relatives who died decades before them. To me this is proof they cannot brush off. Checkmate. I challenge Pen & Teller and anyone to debunk that. The pilot cetrifuge tests don't address this. Athiests trying to deny this never do, it's the part they can't explain away. Penn & Teller failed.
markdown01 10 months ago
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@markdown01 Like anyone else, children can have false memories. This is perpetuated by stories of the deceased relatives by other relatives, traditions kept alive by the remaining relatives, etc. Also, children are naturally curious and imaginative, therefore they could have found pictures of these relatives by exploring. I encourage you to read the studies on false memories by Dr. Elizabeth Loftus.
Mandy17BrutalHonesty 10 months ago
@markdown01 nobody's going to convince you. That's your belief system and it's deeply entrenched. You cannot prove that there is an afterlife, and honestly, why try? If you believe it, go ahead, just don't make a big deal of it.
paperwingsacoustic 5 months ago
@paperwingsacoustic You've just blurted generalistic defense of your position since you can't counter one thing I've said. Pen & Teller only address one aspect (out of body experiences) of the NDE process. When a child sees a relative during a NDE that they never met, or learned about or saw pictures of, and describes them as if they did actually meet them, and there are many cases of this, that is proof to me. Counter that, you can't. They can't, that's why they didnt try. Don't generalize.
markdown01 5 months ago
@markdown01 oh that's right, we NEVER have dreams involving dead relatives. LOL
evelsteev 5 months ago
@evelsteev Intellectual cowardice. Simplistic answer that disproves nothing. Dreaming of dead relatives does not in itself disprove anything. You take an easy way out. You, Penn/Teller, Hitchens, whoever, can't disrpove again. How does a child who never saw a dead relative, they never met or saw pictures of or heard a discription of, have a NDE & return describing them precisely? Answer the question. Disprove it, you can't.
markdown01 5 months ago
@markdown01 apparently you don't know how logic works. If you make a claim, IE: "God exists," for example, then you must back that claim with evidence, for which you have none, other than people telling a story. I'm not making the claim that you can't disprove that NDE's exist, but rather you can't prove that they do. Otherwise you can't disprove the existence of leprechauns. Does that mean THEY exist? Let's put it this way: disprove I'm the Pope.
evelsteev 5 months ago
@evelsteev Again, total diversionary attempt. Read what I typed. Explain how a child can describe in detail a relative who died long before them, who they never met, never heard described to them, never saw pictures of? You can't, so you go back to predictable standard athiest arguments. I'm not specifically 'proving God', I am saying NDE experiences in those cases are likely real, since there is no other explanation as to how a child can describe someone they've never met, seen, or learned of.
markdown01 5 months ago
@markdown01 since when is empirical evidence a "diversionary attempt?" Maybe in a dream, perhaps, but not in reality. You're using the classic argument from ignorance again. "I can't explain something, so it MUST be supernatural, (god, psychic powers,etc.)" providing that the claims were actual in the first place. Speculation is not proof. I'm deeply happy that you're not a detective or a lawyer.
evelsteev 5 months ago
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paperwingsacoustic 5 months ago
@markdown01 Have I? Or have you? The memory is a curious thing and the mind, especially in children, is capable of amazing feats of imagination. My guess as to how children could see relatives they've never met in a NDE is through the power of suggestion. I would like to see your supposed proof, as the burden of proof lies squarely on the shoulders of those trying to prove something, rather than those who doubt it. Link some legitimate stories if there are as many as you claim
paperwingsacoustic 5 months ago
@paperwingsacoustic What's with all the intellectual cowardice? Google is your friend. Look it up. There are dozens of not hundreds of accounts of kids seeing those who passed before them who they never met, they never saw pictures of, and never heard 'suggestions' of. You're inserting that into the debate desperately. If you can't counter what I've said, make stuff up. Again, explain how the kid describes in detail someone they have not met, seen, heard of, or had 'suggestions' of. You can't.
markdown01 5 months ago
@markdown01 I want you to post links so that I can debunk your best examples point by point. You scared? You should also know that I don't take Youtube video comment debates, or you, very seriously. And make stuff up? Like an afterlife? An omnipotent passive-aggressive father figure in the sky? Sure, anybody can make that up.
paperwingsacoustic 5 months ago
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markdown01 3 months ago
@paperwingsacoustic Look up '11 year old went to heaven' on YouTube. This is one of many. I don't have links to a lot of others I have read about in many books about it. You'll likely say the kids lie, or parents told them to, or whatever. Let's try this. If you met a child who had a NDE, meeting family they have never met while alive, or heard described. If you knew those things for a fact. Try to deny that one.
markdown01 3 months ago
All of consciousness is a DREAM of the reality you find yourself in!
Hazlitt57 10 months ago
i believe in near death experiences, people who say its the activity of the brain
how can that be when the brain is dead at the point of death how can u think when ur near death and if its all in your mind how come children have near death experiences they have no knowledge of the spiritual realm or religion or anything..
no dmt no nothing. must be true science can never make a link to the spiritual world its physically impossible..
mansionsofsaints584 11 months ago
@mansionsofsaints584 Actually, just because the person has died does not mean that their brain is no longer functioning. The moment a person stops breathing, he or she is considered dead, but, the brain continues to fire neurons for several hours afterward. It is estimated that the auditory cortex is one of the last brain functions to die, so a dead person can technically hear on average 2 hours after death. This is why medical coroners cannot pronounce death until at least 1 hour has passed.
Mandy17BrutalHonesty 10 months ago
@Mandy17BrutalHonesty
Which is why when death is declared changed 20 years ago. When your heart stops or you stop breathing, you are not dead, anyone can tell you this. When your brain stops functioning you are dead, period. To date, not one single person has died and come back.
Also, you are way off on the time to brain death. 4-6 minutes, that's it, not one hour. Every person who has had blood flow and/or oxygen restored past that 6 minute mark has no brain functions.
bayouboyy 10 months ago
i believe in near death experiences, people who say its the activity of the brain
how can that be when the brain is dead at the point of death how can u think when ur near death and if its all in your mind how come children have neard eath experiences they have no knowledge of the spiritual realm or religion or anything..
no dmt no nothing. must be true science can never make a link to the spiritual world its physically impossible..
mansionsofsaints584 11 months ago
so this video is pretty much atheists trying to prove the immortal doesnt exist with mortal science, makes sense to me!
bvanwall 11 months ago
not dream like – that in fact it is more real than our everyday reality. I’ve heard it said that when they return it feels as though this reality is the dream state. There is something that resonates beautifully from someone who has touched the other side and returned – conversely there is something else that resonates from the large gentleman and his silent sidekick. Email me if you want to discuss further …
45cobden 11 months ago
Hmnn…making a buck from promoting NDE’s is probably equal to making a buck refuting them.
NDE’s can be triggered by interrupting blood flow to the brain. Centrifuge tests bring people into similar beginning stages of an NDE – I’m not sure how that disputes the spiritual significance of an NDE or life after death for that matter. There are so many holes in the loud gentleman’s script that I don’t know where to start. The vast majority of NDE’rs claim that their NDE is
45cobden 11 months ago
How do you explain patients explaining E.R. procedures, equipment used by doctors, while patient is unconscious? Kids naming distant relatives they have never known to their parents?
profaneslave 11 months ago
@profaneslave are you telling us things you have heard? cuz i have heard a lot of bull shit like people who see big foot.... plus there is usually a good reason for everything.. kids hear about relatives and see them in old photographs and that information is stored in the brain in a complex way. are you saying a parent never names a relative around their child even once?? think about it
Johnf85 6 months ago
@profaneslave It's simple. Them and their families made it up so they can try and make the world less atheist.
JoeHums 6 months ago
A good lie trumps a bad truth, every time. You see, I'd rather trip-balls for a couple of minutes, and believe that my identity is actually surviving biological-death, than noiselessly scream inside my own head completely aware that I'm on my final shit-slide into oblivion. Despite that, they say that the death-hallucination is the most fucked-up, out of this universe mind-trip this side of the grave. You have to find the sliver-lining, folks.
shamantics 1 year ago
these poor saps should go back to their farsical moral relativity --and stop judging something you dont even know a dang thing about ---when you die lets see how intelectual you are ??? we shall have a little humble chat about that then.
what say ye good sire?
49128 1 year ago
Penn & Teller are incredibly dissapointing. They want to be "cool" therefore why give anything it's due diligence like NDE's.
Sempi10 1 year ago
you are a true pos
MrChrisjack26 1 year ago
I'm trully sad to realise how sceptical is this man.
pedrokilson 1 year ago 2
stupid atheists. i hope you all die as soon as possible!! yes i just jinx you atheists!! are you scared of death now? you stupid fucking atheists!!
TranThanhHai1 1 year ago
@TranThanhHai1 your internet threats don't scare me, angry Christian.
TissueRejection 1 year ago
gee, maybe cutting off the blood to the brain IS a "near death experience" dimwit.
vaLLarrr 1 year ago
haha this was pretty good... thanks
skoz14 1 year ago
I find this video just a bit abrasive and narrow. I think they have missed the point about how so many people completely reappraise their lives after such experiences and how they see the world completely differently. I think this is a good thing. P&T are really just trying to entertain rather than enlighten. Try to see beyond the superficial. Simply using big words to explain such as Hypoxia etc does nothing to explain this phenomenon which could help us all to live better lives
hunnyhillbees 1 year ago
@hunnyhillbees If it makes ppl happy or not doesn't make it true, so it fits well with what this show is about.
DaGavinX 1 year ago
Carl Gustav Jung had a "near death/out of body experience' and writes about it in great detail in his published memoirs, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections." Great read, unless you're one of these ill-educated pussies who scoff at the idea of the Spirit, or whatever the hip kids are calling 'it' these days.
irollgr 1 year ago
I like the part where he says "and then there's this fucking guy"
poconut10 1 year ago 10
simulation doesnt disprove anything.we can simulate real life events that we know really occures.does that make these real life events not real because we can simulate them?no.and theres alot more evidence than what they gave here.anyone who truly trust penn and teller without truly researching are fools
jamiacanprincess 1 year ago
I'm confused having the blood sucked out of your brain is simulated dying or is it real dying? I imagine if the blood is removed from your brain and stays removed you die in a few minutes, so it's kind of like teasing death by having one foot in deaths door. Dying is a process it's not a light switch.
Also where are the life reviews, meeting of dead relatives, etc? P&T Bullshit is Bullshit and they are the ones making money out of BULLSHIT! HYPOCRITES!
Theism411 1 year ago
@Theism411
Low oxygen to a severe degree can cause a near death experience. It can be induced without even being near death which it is also known to cause very vivid hallucinations. If you remained with such low oxygen by stopping the blood flow through your brain, then you'd die. But temporarily cut it off, you are "near death" and since blood in the brain = brain activity. All sorts of weird stuff can happen during such decreased blood flow.
DanielxMorningstar 1 year ago
@Theism411
And I'm pretty sure they already dealt with talking with dead relatives and/or meeting them in season 1 with the episode discussing communicating with the dead. Interviewing people who claim to have talked to the dead is meaningless, considering you can't prove any such thing happened. Which is in of itself obvious bullshit. Anyone can say they talked to their dead relatives.
DanielxMorningstar 1 year ago
how come some instances see and hear things in other rooms and different areas while thay are brain dead.. that has been proven and know doubt in my mind that there is something more when our souls leave our body.. open your eyes before you end up in a not so good place..no reincarnation, but there is no death to our souls..you will find out soon enough. Hope you make the right choice before your time is up..read the bible..it has been proven true time and again also
Myaka2001 1 year ago
ewo duckin stanists ,the one who is speak is laughing off infinite love od God. Gay presentation. Made by stupis people without respect.
scarry07 1 year ago
some good drugs there. :)
l337pwnage 1 year ago
You have nothing to do guys! Spending time trying to discredit people who had an NDE. Pam Reynolds had her NDE while her brain was DEAD. She had no blood in her body and she could tell everything that happen during her surgerie.. That, they can't explain! Why are they so scare of life after death? because it would mean that their actions have a signification and they don't want to see that! I had an OBE and i can assure that it has NOTHING to do with a dream!
jeanpierrel 1 year ago
@jeanpierrel
obviously her brain WASN'T dead..what's more likely jean, that there exists some spirit realm that our magical spirit goes to, somehow taking with it all of our personality traits, without a brain, or that it's an experience within our own mind?
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Her brain was not dead but was temporary non-functionnal cause without any blood in it! So it's obvious that it can't be her brain that did produce her NDE! The doctors killed her temporary to do the brain surgery and she went out of body and had an nde. She met her grand-mother and her uncle that are dead, she asked if the light is God and they said that the light is what happen when God breathes! Then her uncle push her into the body to come back, she felt it as a boom! REAL!
jeanpierrel 1 year ago
@jeanpierrel also, how did vicki naratuk have one when she was blind since birth?
kidkong584 1 year ago
@kidkong584 I had few OBE myself and when we're out of our body we can see. And our vision is perfect. I coud see 360 degre and i could even make a ZOOM. I had a body made of energie and i could run and fly. It was FABULOUS! It was the most amazing thing i ever experience in my entire life! Vickie is blind in her physical body but when she was out of her body shw could see cause our spirit can see, the spirit sees up, down, right and left up front and in the back "at the same time"! Pure joy!
jeanpierrel 1 year ago
@jeanpierrel
u start with far too many pre-conceived beliefs..scientists have discovered that the human brain still has consciousness when the brain is technically dead..this is the mysterious phenomenon science is faced with..we should start off by wondering if there is more to the human brain that we do not yet understand, instead of instantly thinking there's more to reality, and that there's some magical realm we float off to.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife I understand what you're saying but me i lived that experience so for me it not magical. I did really float up in the sky and it was real as it is right now! For me nde and OBE are as much real as anything else cause i've been on the other side. I had an OBE and went to my mom's house and i saw her talking on the phone and i heard her too. When i came back in my body i called her and told her what i've heard and she did confirm that it was exact! So this is the brain? No!
jeanpierrel 1 year ago
@jeanpierrel I would be very interested in hearing your story more in depth. Please send me a PM, if you want.
redcomic619 1 year ago
@jeanpierrel
Personal experiences aren't proof of anything. For all we know, you are lying, since I can't exactly talk to your Mother and ask if she was just agreeing with you to not alarm you in anyway. Or she might be delusional, or you just made it up to try and deceive people into thinking such things happen. A lone personal experience is worthless, because it can't be verified to be anything else but a made up story, or a long hallucination. OBE's are natural phenomena. No other side.
DanielxMorningstar 1 year ago
@itzahazylife or we could also be open minded enough to also ponder whether if there is more to reality than we currently want to accept.there is a possibility that its simply a function of the brain that we have yet to understand but it could also be something else like a spirit of some sort that lives on.and your replies sound very biased which is bad if your a scientist.science is ever changing and we need less dogmatic scientist and more free thinkers.like einstien
jamiacanprincess 1 year ago
@jamiacanprincess
of course there is a possibility that consciousness is this immaterial phenomenon that transcends life and is sustained after death, but, before we start feeling so strongly about such leaps in speculation, we should just stick to the more rational concept that there's probably just more to the brain..it's not really a matter of stubborn dogma, just a matter of relaxing a bit on such major speculation.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@jeanpierrel LSD (Acid) and DMT cause out of body experiences. DMT is made in your body and released at death. Your brain can stay alive for awhile despite the fact the rest of your body is dead. Which is why they can come back to life.
JoeHums 6 months ago
Comment removed
Bluelight7007 1 year ago
@Bluelight7007 ehem... magicians. Magicians, not musicians. Typo.
foodonface 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@foodonface
Ignorant magicians, speaking presumptuously to matters they obviously know nothing about. These clowns better to stick to pulling rabbits out of hats.
Bluelight7007 6 months ago
@foodonface
correction made, thanks
Bluelight7007 6 months ago
stupid angry Penn & Teller
NinetiesYouth 1 year ago
I don't like how religious people involve/mix NDE's with Jesus and god
~but~
I also don't like how some think these experiences are nothing more than dreams..I think there's just more to it than that. Even if it is just a natural phenomenon, why do we have to be so dismissive?
Illyria23alyssa 1 year ago
@Illyria23alyssa Because we don't have a real explanation on this point, and speculating without any real data or evidence on the subject is useless.
Maybe a few years in the future we won't be so dismissive because science will understand what is actually happening, but in the mean time is better to be dismissive than to go to crazy conclusions, like the supernatural ones.
Yetanotherytuser 5 months ago
@Illyria23alyssa
We don't; you can marvel at it all you want to. Personally, I think the human brain is pretty amazing. I just don't believe in metaphysics and dismiss people who try to "prove" them to others (and sell shit too) based on nothing.
jerico641 5 months ago
Respond to this video...
So far, about the only big issue about which have disagreements with P & T is gun control. Gotta love 'em!
jerico641 5 months ago
The Mr. who´s talking in this documentary should, first of all, begin to respect people and not call them "guy" ou "guys". Dr. Moody is no "guy".
The just is street science and by no means good science.
Hear and respect before you talk.
gobio1965 1 year ago
@gobio1965 The "Mr." who is talking is Pen Jillette. He's kinda famous for being blunt and honest. I personally don't think calling someone "guy" is disrespectful.
Illyria23alyssa 1 year ago
Which episode is this from?
DarthConnis9999 1 year ago
I have some problem with the fact that they asked a psychologist to explain a neurological function, near a computer screen representing a brain for good measure.
While I don't particularly buy into NDE they are using one of the same tactics they criticize: showing someone non qualified near some techy looking imagery to give him credibility.
ThisOneIsTaken 1 year ago
Okay science is how man perceives the world around him--this field is DYNAMIC because we DON'T know everything. Its more freightening to suggest that we are PUPPETS of our own anatomy, if we had a CHOICE in our behavior that would suggest we have a realm of higher conciousness. Look up Grigorievich Rodonai! Hell there was a study I came across in which a SCIENTIST claimed there is a possiblity of eternal life as people had new knowledge after their brain activity flat lined and bounced back.
coldelement89 1 year ago
WOW. LOVE THIS SHOW.........BUT.......This episode of Bullshit is just that....Bullshit. Throwing out random percentages in order to convince the public that N.D.E's are fake. Firstly, to all atheists out there explain how the MAJORITY of these people who have REAL nde's share the same explanation. Long tunnel, meeting with higher power, vividly explaining what happened to them while "dead" in DETAIL to those around them. The "test" subjects explained NOTHING 100% NOTHING that was like an NDE
andrewlovesmeat 1 year ago
All people are born ignorant and accept life as taught is the truth and believe
and that is the ignorant with there ignorances:)
Mr20122112 1 year ago
I don't know what is after death, I don't even mind the concept of "god"...but when you start saying "religion", "messiah", "hell & heaven", "worship", "Holy book", etc. the bullshit-meter breaks.
zzzIdividedbyzerozzz 1 year ago
god is real heaven and hell are real and i think its time you losers start facing the reality. hey its your soul. good luck
MrChrisjack26 1 year ago
@MrChrisjack26 To Christians, I say, show me a clear real photograph of God, Heaven, or Hell.
oldblubblub 1 year ago
Winnery wasn't torturing the pilots, he was helping them develop the ability to tolerate the high G-loads that they would routinely encounter in combat.
EvanLesnick 1 year ago
I accept the centrifuge study done
That being said, to say that we know for certain there is or isn't a 'higher power' or/nor an afterlife is presumptuous on both sides IMHO. But o well
saxoman1 1 year ago
@saxoman1 one relies on science and one relies on total faith. guess which one can be tested?
truthaddict11 1 year ago
@truthaddict11 I'm just saying (non religious specific) that to say that one KNOWS what happens after death is silly (whether it be a belief in something or a certainty in nothing). I'm saying that for both theist and atheist (imo of course). So, I'm certainly not saying I know :P. Besides, since these people didn't die, I fully accept that their experiences were probably hallucinations. But no one can know for sure until the real thing happens to them imo
saxoman1 1 year ago
It doesn't matter how much evidence you provide, these people will put their fingers in their ears and shout what ever religious hymn comes to mind.
HybridD91 1 year ago
"Actually, us "skeptics" are taken VERY seriously. Especially since we're 99% of the scientific community"
The only ones taking you seriously are yourselves, everyone else can see right through the b.s.
Btw, I think that everyone should be skeptical. Healthy, OPEN MINDED, skepticism is necessary in our world. But in the recent skeptic movement, it's actually close-minded cynicism disguised as being skeptical...and it's as dogmatic as any religion.
dwywsol 1 year ago
And btw, on your advice to read up on Michael Persinger...he claims to be able to re-create an nde in a lab, and he is a liar.
There is a documentary where he put his 'god helmet' on subjects which he said would recreate an nde. What the people saw were weird and random skull like figures and horse shaped animals. The fact that he would even compare that to an nde makes him lose all credibility.
But I guess you'll pretty much swallow anything these days when you're trained to be a skeptic
dwywsol 1 year ago
True, but to a certain degree. There are plenty of atheists out there who are just as dogmatic as religious fundamentalists and refuse to accept any evidence that goes against their way of thinking. The overall evidence from the following fields highly suggest that consciousness is independent of the brain.:
nde's
reincarnation
genuine mediums
psi (which has been proven)
death bead visions, etc
Do some research with an open mind and you might be surprised as to what you discover.
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol "psi has been proven" what?
keggerous 1 year ago
@keggerous
Yes. Proven. Scientifically.
If you want the evidence, you can go to openmindsite(dot)com and dowload the free pdf. It covers some other fields of evidence as well but if you want to just look at the psi data, it's covered on pages 10-16.
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
The fact that you said the words "proven scientifically" shows your lack of understanding for the scientific method. Things in science aren't "proven". They are observed through experimentation, recorded into evidence, then molded into a theory that fits the data... or they are falsified through that process.
The people at Open Mind Site are doing the reverse. They are formulating theories about how the world works and digging for evidence. Use more than 1 source for your research.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675
And you wonder why you so called "skeptics" aren't being taken seriously anymore.
"They are formulating theory's about how the world works and digging for evidence"... are you kidding? They're pointing to the overwhelming evidence done through repeated experiments that point to the fact that the results could not have been obtained by chance. You James Randi clones are starting to get more desperate than the creationists you despise so much...it's acutally a quite amusing
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Actually, us "skeptics" are taken VERY seriously. Especially since we're 99% of the scientific community.
And they have no repeated experiments. The only completed, published studies that have included repeated experiments in a controlled environment are the Olaf Blanke, Ehrrson, and Micheal Persinger studies... all of which found that OBE's and NDE's were chemical reactions of the brain and nothing more.
Hard to claim they're spiritual when they can be replicated through drugs
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675
Saying that nde's have been replicated by drugs is borderline laughable.
"all of which found that OBE's and NDE's were chemical reactions of the brain and nothing more"
Wrong. NDE's remain an unexplained phenomeon to this day. As a matter of fact with more research being done on the subject, the more the evidence continues to pile up and highly suggest that they are genuine glimpses of the other side.
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Actually, it's not. Watch the video. They replicated NDE's through the use of a centrifuge. Also, NDE's have found to be caused by a psychadelic chemical called Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) through a study done by Dr. Rick Strassman from the University of New Mexico. People given this chemical reported the same exact visions as brought on by an NDE... in fact, people who had had a real NDE reported the effects were the same.
A cited studies backing my point... where are yours?
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675
That's just the thing. Nde's have NOT been replicated in this video, or by anybody else.
Here are some of the things NDE's contain:
Seeing your own body and everything else going on in the room from a bird's eye view
Crystal clear consciousness, even a heightened sense of awareness
Seeing and communicating with deceased relatives
A life review, usually with a guide of some sort telling you what you could've done different/better in certain situations...(continued)
dwywsol 1 year ago
..(continued)
-Receiving all knowledge of the universe and understanding why you came into this life in the first place
-being told you still have some things to do before you can come back
-A feeling of unconditional love that the english language can't begin to describe --Going to other parts of the hospital while out of body and hearing/seeing conversations later verified to be accurate
Does this video sound like they replicated anything of what I just mentioned?
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Actually, if you bothered to read about ANY of the studies I mentioned, you would know that those are the EXACT symptoms that people described, with the exception of any verifiable accuracy to their OBE. See, as it turns out, people actually "observed" themselves or other places during the artificial NDEs... but they were completely unable to accurately describe events they didn't pre-witness or did not happen in the room. I chalk the "accuracy" of your CONJECTURE to witness failure.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
I already know about those studies and they are highly fabricated.
"the EXACT symptoms that people described"
Wrong (again). Those subjects had the 'feeling' as if they were out of body, seeming as if their legs were getting shorter..etc Hardly constitutes a full blown out of body experience seeing EVERYTHING going on in a heightened state of consciousness (ie..dust on the cabinets above, seeing your own lifeless body being worked on and the movements of everyobody in full detail)
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Let me rephrase then, only about 18% of subjects reported those symptoms, the rest reported other symptoms such as the ones you refer to. For instance, in the Olaf Blanke study (one amongst many others), those subjects (some of whom had had what you would refer to as a "real" NDE before) reported almost those exact experiences (including speaking to dead relatives... of course, I've done that in my dreams, myself).
Quit attacking peer-reviewed studies and post some of your own.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
Quit attacking peer-reviewed studies
Oh so its ok for the materialists to do so, but nobody else can. Why dont you look at how the peer reviewed, replicated psi studies continue to be attacked. Or how Michael Shermer attacked Pim Van Lomells study on ndes which was published in the Lancet, and how he was made to look like a fool by Lomell who pointed out his misrepresentations and poor review of the results.
Thanks for pointing out the double standard though, Ill keep that in mind
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
I'm not saying anything about PSI right now. I'm talking about NDEs. And I believe it was Ingram and Chopra that put out the strongest critcism of Shermer's interpretation of Lomell's results. And I'm not attacking, I'm calling it into question. Attacking is doing things like calling my arguments robotic or claiming double standards. For instance, I don't like the way in which he verifies information from his subjects. It's all very vulnerable to post-hoc fallacies by the subjects
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Again. In what way are they highly fabricated? What evidence do you have of this? The scientific bodies that peer-reviewed these studies didn't seem to think so.
And the people who claim to have "seen everything" are merely that... you have to realize that NO ONE was there to record or verify their claims except after the fact. You are trusting the word of people whose brains were SHUTTING DOWN... it's pure conjecture, which has no place in science.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
NO ONE was there to record or verify their claims
Doctors and eye witnesses are there to verify and document their claims. Why do you think theres a lot of new research underway costing millions of dollars. Is it because these people just told some whacky stories?
Ill take the word of the doctors who were there and say that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY these people couldve known what they know through normal means, over some armchair skeptic calling people delusional, but thats just me
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Doctors are human, and just as vulnerable to the fallacies of human memory. But let's take their word for truth... how come in follow up studies done by the researchers I've listed before, none of the subjects experiencing OBEs could tell them what was on a high shelf? They could describe the rest of the room that they could see/had seen...
How about that people who had had real NDEs were able to have the same experience through the intake of DMT?
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
"And the people who claim to have "seen everything" are merely that.."
So now you know what these people experienced and are speaking for themnoted.
You are trusting the word of people whose brains were SHUTTING DOWN
So let me get this straight, a brain somehow generates an image from above of whats going on, complete with movements and resuscitation efforts, and this just happens to be at a time of near or in some cases clinical death...sounds logical, thanks for clearing that up
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Here's the thing. Our brains are actually very inaccurate. They fill in missing information with assumptions all the time. Again, read up on some cognitive psychology for a full picture... but let me pose an example.
Did you know that every time you shift your eyes, your eyes actually stop transmitting information to your brain for the duration of the shift? But you get a full, uninterrupted image. That's because your brain fills in what it doesn't see based on it's own assumptions.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675
These are not tricks of the brain, anyone who has had an out of body experience will tell you that there is no mistaking it. There is absolutely no question that you are out of your physical body. Universities have put out open calls to test people claiming to be able to regularly go out of body, and the subjects were able to identify images that were either impossible to physically see or in some cases even locked in cabinets/storage areas (continued)
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol @dwywsol No question, you say? Have you ever heard of the term brains in vats? Our perception is guided entirely but what our brain says we are feeling/seeing/etc. If we are capable of perceiving a "feeling" of being out of our body, our brain/mind/whatever is capable of tricking ourselves into thinking that we are.
Ehal256 1 year ago
@Ehal256
Funny how you completely ignore the evidence and studies I presented.
I'm not going to debate this matter any longer since the only thing you so called 'skeptics' are looking for is anything that will validate your viewpoints, even if it's from 2 ignorant vegas magicians who know nothing about the subject.
Read the literature, examine the evidence (and maybe try actually reading an nde or two) and come up with your own conclusions.
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Logic does not validate my viewpoint? It is as I said. As clearly as you cannot prove that the universe was not created 4 seconds ago, you cannot prove you are not a brain in a vat, with your entire perception of the world being manipulated by a malevolent force outside of your control. There IS a question about whether you are out of your physical body, purely because you cannot logically prove that your physical body exists. Just try it.
Ehal256 1 year ago
@Ehal256
Why do you automatically assume that logic is on your side, it isn't (and don't start with the 'creationist' label, cause I'm not religious)
Logic is on the side of the millions of experiencers who KNOW that they were out of their body"s, watching everything unfold from a bird's eye view during their life-threateniing event.
And sure I can't prove that I'm not a 'brain in a vat', just like you can't prove that life wasn't planted on Earth by pink unicorns. What's your point?
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol My point is that, if, you cannot logically prove you exist, you cannot possibly prove that near-death experiences are real. The same thing applies to everything else. I was just being a dick, to be honest. Ignore me. :P
Ehal256 1 year ago
(continued)
And from the Lancet published paper I pointed out earlier, there was a case of an old man who was brought into the hospital in a full coma, eyes closed the whole time. After he was revived, he was able tell a nurse where she put his dentures because she had forgot (he pointed out the exact cabinet and drawer) because according to him, he was watching the whole scene from above.
dwywsol 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675 thats all very well but when your heart has stopped beating and the brain goes into flatline there is no medical explanation as to how people are still felling emotions and hearing what is going on around them.
ratsratsrats100 1 year ago
@ratsratsrats100
Actually, sure there is. It's actually fairly simple... they're not hearing anything at the time. Let me elaborate... The brain is a tricky thing.
For instance, did you know your vision shuts down every time you move your eyes? But you still get a uninterrupted view of the world whenever you look at something new. That's because your brain fills in the stuff that's missing based on patterns your subconscious recognizes before and after your eyes shut down.
It's like that.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675
And btw, at what point during these 'replicated nde's' did these subjects meet and have conversations with their dead relatives and friends? (in some cases people they didn't know were dead)
At what point did they have a life review detailing all of positive and negative interactions with other people?
At what point did they have an encounter with a being of light that radiated an ineffable, unearthly feeling of love?
-I'll be waiting for your references.
dwywsol 1 year ago
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dwywsol 1 year ago
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dwywsol 1 year ago
Saying that nde's have been replicated by drugs is borderline laughable.
"found that OBE's and NDE's were chemical reactions of the brain and nothing more"
Wrong. NDE's remain an unexplained phenomeon to this day. As a matter of fact with more research being done on the subject, the more the evidence continues to pile up and highly suggest that they are genuine glimpses of the other side
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Actually, from everything I've seen, the evidence is piling up against. People who'd had an actual NDE were also brought into studies conducted by Dr. rich Strassman. They claimed that what they saw/experienced when high on DMT was the same as when they were resuscitated.
We also cannot discount Richard Kinseher's work into the subject. All in all, we're developing some very strong neuro-biological explanations for the phenomenon.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@dwywsol
Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of the afterlife. See, there's absolutely no way to prove what people are seeing is or isn't the afterlife, because, by definition, that is a spiritual matter. It cannot be detected or measured. At worst, you're putting forward a Russel's Teapot.
At best, you're possibly witnessing a new physical phenomenon and automatically assigning it a "spiritual" origin, when any number of other explanations are just as likely.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675
More evidence for you: Dr. Penny Sartori did a 5 year study where she divided up 2 groups. One group was cardiac patients who said they had an nde including the out of body part, and the other group who did not have an nde.
She asked the group who had an nde to describe the resuscitation efforts, and every single one of them was able to accurately describe what was going on, giving blow by blow details and specific information.
dwywsol 1 year ago
(continued)
She then interviewed the other group who did not have an nde, to try to describe what was going on the best they could, 80% of those people were way off in giving their description and made serious mistakes. The other 20% gave just general descriptions based on what they saw in medical tv shows. Dr. Michael Sabom replicated this study independently the exact same results, as well as Pim Van Lomell who also did an independent study with 344 patients, also with the same results
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
As a side note... I've read 21 Days. More of the same stuff that's been going on for thousands of years...
They find singular, second-hand events and use them as evidence for something that can not be measured or replicated in a controlled environment. They are choosing the easy way of attributing it to things like "psi" rather than trying to find the actual physical mechanics behind the event.
From Olympus to Intelligent Design... people just don't seem to learn. Not real science.
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675
"Not real science"
Nonsense. It may not be 'real science' to you because it happens to conflict with your way of thinking. These experiments have been done for over a century, and are currently being done, by top scientists, using the same scientific method applied to any other field.
"They are choosing the easy way of attributing it to things like "psi" rather than trying to find the actual physical mechanics behind the event." -Where exactly is your evidence for this?
dwywsol 1 year ago
@dwywsol
No... it's not real science to me because their "experiments" consist of interviewing people post-hoc (that's after the event has passed). That's a big no-no in research, considering how incredibly unreliable people's memories are.
The day they get replicable results in a controlled experiment, then get it published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, I'll take them seriously and believe. But how much of this has shown up in a peer-reviewed scientific journal? None...
JohnTaylor5675 1 year ago
@JohnTaylor5675
Just as I thought...another close minded materialist who claims to have looked at the evidence, but in reality just making baseless assertions. The experiments have been replicated, hundreds if not thousands of times, independently I might add, and published in scientific journals. I'm not gonna waste any more time on the subject since you obviously don't know anything about it.
dwywsol 1 year ago
Those who accept the position that these are dreams or hallucinations, ignore the fact that virtually all of these experiences involve the same basic events.
Furthermore, there are countless, confirmed accounts of people who accurately report events that occurred WHEN they were in cardiac arrest - this should not be possible.
We currently do not know where consciousness arises, but there is serious scientific work taking place in this area right now. Have a look at Sam Parnia's work
criminoboy 1 year ago