The Credit-Card Battle

[LegalizeCapitalism]

yaron rules! any person of the least amount of intellect can see the results of regulated, mixed economy right before them, "all one has to do is think." lets give laissez-faire support before things are really screwed.

that lady was atrocious

[chopin8826]

i agree, but i just don't get how people can't see it, I mean the economics support Yarons argument, Milton Friedman won the nobel prize for saying what Yaron is saying why doesn't anybody listen.

[LegalizeCapitalism]

"You see, Dr. Stadler, people don't want to think. And the deeper they get into trouble, the less they want to think. But by some sort of instinct, they feel that they ought to and it makes them feel guilty. So they'll bless and follow anyone who gives them a justification for not thinking. Anyone who makes a virtue--a highly intellectual virtue-- out of what they know to be their sin, their weakness and their guilt.."

"And you propose to pander to that?"

"That is the road to popularity." (A.S.)

[chopin8826]

Atlas Shrugged is so good, its been making me debate capitalism and I never realized how many people don't want freedom haha

[ymeg1]

Appeal to Logic vs. Appeal to Emotion.

[topothemorningtoya]

That lady won the "debate." She's entirely wrong in substance, but her presentation style made Yaron look like a hysterical child by comparison.

Its difficult for intellectually honest people to fathom the stock that statist liars put in controlling other people and they want to think theyre just ignorant. They're not. Theyve staked their lives upon it and they treat manipulating others as deadly serious business. Just as seriously as someone like Yaron treats dealing with physical nature

[topothemorningtoya]

I know Yaron Brook has been making mainstream presentations for years, but I've noticed that ever since Objectivism has been seen to be more relevant in recent months and he's been doing more appearances, he's developed a certain obsequiesness and it's negatively affected his debating skills. All of the interrupting, the smiling, the fast talking, the head shaking - it just makes people think that he's the one trying to put something over on the viewer; and not the other way around.

[topothemorningtoya]

He needs to expect to be ignored, interrupted, to have his points distorted and unheeded - even when they're biting.

He needs to remember that this is the only thing that his opponents, and even his partialy-sympathetic hosts, can do.

He needs to stop treating all of these people as if they're honestly looking to understand, and just sit calmly and quitely until he's such that he can name the heart of the issue - slowly and evenly - and then say as little else as possible.

[topothemorningtoya]

Let the opposition do the rambling. When you can sit there for 2 minutes letting them "build" a case for statism, and then demolish it all with one or two pointed statements, that impresses the audience and wins the debate.

[ORagnar]

topothemorningtoya -- I think you are inferring things that aren't there. This whole reading behavior approach to analyzing others is not a proper way to judge the quality of the points being made. Let's put it this way, none of what you said even occurred to me prior to having read your posting, and I don't think any of it is important. What is important are the words coming out of his mouth, end of story.

[grantsinmypants2]

I disagree entirely. The woman became very emotional towards the end. I think that she was calm in the beginning only b/c she was unsure of herself.

[LordVigeous666999]

I dont think that lady won, the only thing she has is that last jab at the end, and Yaron couldn't respond, so it looks like she won, and perception being everything, I guess she won

If he had a chance to respond, he would have nailed it

But anyone that is acting objective, wont weigh that heavily, for that reason. Not saying objective people wont side with her, I'm just saying that the last statement she had gets dropped

and the last 1-2 min might be dropped 2, cause interrupting each other

[mrtbass]

It sounds like she is advocating artificially low interest rates, mandated by regulation. If that were to happen, how many people would then qualify for revolving credit?

Very few, because the reward would be lower vs. the risks involved.

It never ceases to amaze me the ignorance of the people of this country.

[stevearticus]

As far as consumers having no power: they have the ultimate power in this situation - to not use the credit.

[willzyx1980]

No regulations for credit cards? This woman is either a liar or an idiot. Either way, Fox shouldn't have her on.

[Manx123]

I like how she first says, "Look where this free-market economy has gotten us," and then says, "...consumer are protected in this so-called free-market economy..." It seems as if she has a double -standard for what is free-market, whereby the free-market is bad when it comes to the financial crisis, but it's good when it comes to credit cards. Apparently, you can be so free-market that it ceases to become free-market that companies are legally committing "fraud", thus ceasing to be a free.

[YOURGOD78]

When everything went south I payed off my debt. When my c.c. companies raised rates I cancelled those cards. I guess all the socialists will be happy when every person gets a free check for being irresponsible, and everything is worth NOTHING.

[sjenevein]

That woman's argument is a load a crap. On the one hand, she admits contracts have variable rates, but then insists it's gouging if the rate goes higher than what she thinks is fair. Sorry, but the market does not work based on your whims!

A free market can't be regulated to respond any better to economic changes than it can respond by itself. In fact, regulating will only make things worse, in this case by making it easier for people to take on more debt, and be even more likely to default.

[horvay]

Its a free economy, just like printing money is free money!

In a mixed economy, you have two things happening. Force from the government and production from the market. Raise force, decrease production. Raise force, decrease wealth. Raise force, decrease standard of living. Raise force, decrease freedom.

Raise force even more in America, the business men will become the new Jews during WWII. The initiation of force brings nothing but destruction, and can fix nothing in the long run.

[anti0918]

That lady is loco. She mistakes stating the contrary with making an argument.

[manoftwistsandturns]

She's going to get exactly what she's asking for.

[chopsky]

"Look where the Free Market has gotten us"

What a miserable ignoramous she is.

[shovelcharge]

capitalism has never existed. Look at the history of this century; more and more regulations. capitalism means ABSOLUTELY NO REGULATIONS. Bring Dr. Brook back!